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Thread: Hypocrisy in general

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    Hypocrisy in general

    It's probably getting a bit boring this 'Russian women' theme but I wanted to add a serious note. When I was a child I had a miserable time as my family were marked out as 'Russki immigrants' and 'bloody foreigners' and we even had problems with the security services. Then I found out that I could make friends here through Communist organisations and started to come out here ages ago after interviews at the Soviet Embassy who were satisfied re my credentials and family roots here. Years after the USSR was dissolved, you guys all start to flood out here and heap praises on Russian and Slavic women. Isn't this hypocrisy? Where was all this bonhomie when I got bullied as a kid and weren't the Americans the most vociferous and anti-Russian during the Cold War? I suppose you can plead ignorance of the folk here for your previous attitudes but to be honest, even when I came here years ago people didn't have such silly attitudes to Westerners. Russians have long memories and know who their friends are and to this day no-one I know, and this is even amongst very young people, like or trust Americans. So all this 'Russian women' praise here to me seems shallow and hard to believe. If you'd wanted to reach out to people here you could have done so years ago as I did.

  2. #2
    neilmcg Guest
    The "Russian women" thing is only the next stage of the Cold War mentality. Now that they believe they have "conquered", the next stage - following the advice of famous military leader Genghis Khan - the next thing is to take the lands, goods and women of the conquered.

    If you have ever received junk mail from any of the "Russian Brides" websites (and you only have to be moderately active online connected with Russia for your name to be harvested) you'll note some of the claims they make about "Russian girls":

    1) Russian girls are "grateful" . In other words, it doesn't matter if you a friendless, obese loser with no socialisation skills at all - just the fact you are American means that you won't have to make any attempts whatsoever. In other words - you've bought her as a slave.

    2) Russian girls are family-oriented This especially appeals to NeoCon Cold Warriors who think a woman's place is in the kitchen, or nursing the children of his failed marriages.

    3) Russian girls are modest and undemanding This especially appeals to cheapskates, tire-kickers, and men with few personal achievements or attractions.

    4) Russian girls are beautiful . OK, well this is, actually, true. But don't call me selective in my arguments, eh? :-)

    You'll notice that the other main nations that these Agencies like to sell (ooops, I mean "recommend") brides from are.... those with whom America has engaged in military combat. Vietnamese brides are another profitable market... for all the same reasons. The guy feels he can strut-around like a generous "victor" and nobly allow a beautiful woman to marry him, and be his helpmate in his challenging job pumping gas at a gas-station 230 miles south of Boise, Idaho. (I actually know a girl from the FSU who married someone of exactly that profession and location. He's a mere 300-lb'er, apparently).

    Please note that I am not describing in the above either foreigners who are in a successful relationship with a woman from the ex-USSR or women from the ex-USSR.

    I am talking about the hype industry which manipulates the pig-ignorance, chauvinism and imagined "superiority" of their target audience (whom ultimately it financially manipulates knowing that in reality they are fools, braggarts and cowards) into creating the non-phenomenon artificially invented as "Russian girls".

    Coming soon to a website near you - "Iraqi girls".

    I have met (not as a client, I might add) a "Russian girl" whose name is Natasha, in Rostov-On-Don. She sells her personal address for around $100 "Agency Fee", but then charges $180 per bouquet to deliver flowers to herself and keep the correspondence going. The final sting is "the price of the air ticket to the USA so that we can be together, my love" before she acquires a new email address and starts over with the next sucker. "Natasha" weighs around 120kg, is bald, and has a large black beard.

    N.

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    very good) I wonder why these people dont' all go to the Phillippines though...they are really so tiresome and as I said before, this is all recent and since this company opened up and before that they hated us, and this is what annoys me most. Then they start saying how wonderful we Slavs are and how lovely (true!!) but they didnt' say it before and like I said, I got a LOT of stick for my parents being from this part of the world. I've got a lot of Russian women friends and none of them are interested in Western men especially Americans and those that are candidly admit to using them and laugh at their naiveness. Having said that, there are happy unions with classy and intelligent Western men (like your goodself I imagine!) but cultural compromises have to be made. It is a simple fact that most Slavs are insular and are more comfortable with their own. I dated English men but found myself always more drawn and comfortable with other Slavs and in those days we either met refusniks or Poles or Czechs. Of the Russian women I know who married Brits or Americans, most of them have been unhappy and unsatisfied in the marriages. I simply think we are too different and these silly people on the website just see a pretty face and figure and think no further!

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    Hypocracy in general

    Neil's case is well and accurately presented (as is often the case, as I am discovering as a realtive newcomer to the expat site), and I'd like to add my two cents' worth in reply to your lament. In the first place, the Cold War was one (fortunately) of a battle of words in which the propaganda spewed out by both the Soviet Union and America was simply prolific and designed to demonize the other side. Americans were ignorant of Russians then and in the main still are today. Further, (we) Americans are incredibly naive for the simple reason that we live a life that is too rich, soft, convenient and wonderful for most people in the world who have not been to America to even begin to imagine. Unfortunately, Americans make the erroneous assumption that everyone lives like they do or wants to, and so we sow the seeds of our own dislike abroad in too many cases.

    In the case of the oversexed American males who cruise Internet sites to find Russian girls, these poor lads in the main couldn't make it with the least desireable American girls back home, and so find the compliant attitude of many Russian girls much to their liking and falsely ascribe their "success" to their studly charms. There is a "meat market" in every country and the Internet has just made shopping too convenient. However, the mistaken attitudes on both sides of the cultural and linguistic divide are shared pretty equally. Americans often love their Russian friends, but they don't trust them. Russians are often friendly towards Americans, but also don't trust them. We make fun of each other for our perceived follies, but we are in so many ways mirror images of each other.

    It is a shame that your early childhood experiences were so bad, but I have been called "Moscali" in Lvov because I spoke Russian instead of Ukrainian, and so I have been insulted as both an American and a Russian! I quickly got over it, though, and I hope you will, too, as life is too short to sweat the small stuff and too wonderful to waste thinking negative thoughts. За дружба между нами!

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    Ой, Эа дружбу...

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    Well said, Kniga! Of course life is too short to lament childhood bad experiences but I simply brought it up because of all these idiots and their 'Russian women' eulogies on these boards. There is no harm in praising the comely delights of the ladies here albeit based largely on false premises but when they have to accompany it by insulting their compatriots this I feel is unacceptable. Well, there are Americans who travel and live abroad and try to understand other cultures and succeed, and they are quite delightful. It seems you are one of them and also one of the more mature (I use this in a flattering way!!) members of this board thank goodness. But the other sort; the classic Ugly American unfortunately gives the rest a bad name as he is so unappealing in his attitude and behaviour and sheer arrogance but every country has types they're not proud of exporting!! Your experience of Lvov was interesting...nationalistic types they are!) One of my uncles is from there!
    I would finally point out that there are no pages of Russian/Ukranian men 'for sale' nor are there expat ladies starting threads about their manly charms (!) on this board so maybe we should do something about that to redress the balance?)))

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    This very well formulated exchange of thoughts deserves a better destiny than to be buried in the archives.

    Please, Mr teutonic site master, give it a more central place o the site for new comers to read and try to understand. Maybe it could be a test for membership?

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    Hypocracy in general

    Stefania, I think I can best wrap up this thread from my viewpoint by simply saying that whether we realize it or not, or even like it or not, we all are unofficial ambassadors representing our own countries wherever we are. I can't do anything about Ugly Americans, but I can represent America with my own best behavior. So, looks like I'll have to refrain from participating in your plan to get some hot new pages going for Russian/Ukrainian males on this and other sites! :-)

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    I think it's very interesting that the message that says that no one likes or trusts Americans also chooses the phrase "bloody foreigners" to characterize the attitudes that bother them.

    Americans don't use that phrase.

    You are talking about over 250 million people; do you think your generalizations are accurate? I don't. There are many Russians in New York where I worked; some of them are becoming Americans. Do you think that by doing so, they are now guilty of the attitudes and hypocracy you attribute to Americans? Would they be among the Americans that Russians don't like or trust?

    If this thread is a membership test, please count me out.

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    Like any place ameircan has good and bad people. much like the russia propaganda machine the us had one aimed at the ussr during the cold war. many older americans still think of russia in the cold war metality. does that make it right no but what is is.... so for you take make such generaliztions is not fair i've always been a very welcoming person. i've always had friends of multiple nationalities and have never haboured such thoughts as you've described. so for you to make such comments makes you worse than the people you are lashing out against in my opinion.....

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    I grew up in the era when all that Americans knew of Russia was Boris and Natasha from Bullwinkle. While we had strong negative feelings against the Soviet system/governmet the only negative feeling we had for the people would have been one of pity because we felt that they were prisoners in their own country.

    We saw very, very few Russians in the US and when we did see one they held great fascination for us. I find your experience to be a bit odd.

  12. #12
    DaveUK1965 Guest

    All very tiring.

    Having actually been ENGAGED to a Russian lady.....

    This is all very, very tiring. The fact of the matter is that there are gold diggers out there, clueless foreigners after "mail order brides" - people on both sides actually interested - genuinely interested - in multi-cultural relationships -

    - and a great number of "armchair experts" who should just shut the feck up. To be honest. How is it that so many people consider themselves authoritative voices on a subject which involves so many different people and motives.... because they`ve read a glossy magazine, seen an expositional TV programme or met either a fat sweating 50 year old after a teenager - or a little girl after an old man ?

    The UK divorce rate is 51%
    The divorce rate between UK and Russian couples is 10%

    And before any old armchair experts tell me that the girls are trapped in the marriages - balls. For the gold diggers, divorce is the ideal - 50% of the house.

    I look forwards to all the interesting replies I`ll get to this post from people who don`t know what they`re talking about.

    Dave

    PS - yep, I realised that we WERE in love but the cultural differences were so great that she`d have a miserable time over here. We talked it through and she began to understand life in the UK is NOT paradise. Believe it or not, I get CHASED by UK girls here - but - I`m not interested. There IS such a genotype as someone genuinely interested in a multicultural marriage, believe it or not - the standard in the UK is someone single, never married, professional, 37 years old. Forget the glossy magazines and TV programmes selling shock - horror stories about "mail order brides" - do you believe EVERYTHING you read in the papers ???

  13. #13
    DaveUK1965 Guest
    Originally posted by stefania2003
    [Of the Russian women I know who married Brits or Americans, most of them have been unhappy and unsatisfied in the marriages. I simply think we are too different and these silly people on the website just see a pretty face and figure and think no further!
    [/B]
    Then again, Stesha, you`re not in England, amongst the UK <> Russian community, are you ? ;-))) I am.

    Everyone is different. Generalisations make no sense at all when talking about relationships

  14. #14
    DaveUK1965 Guest
    Originally posted by neilmcg
    I have met (not as a client, I might add) a "Russian girl" whose name is Natasha, in Rostov-On-Don. She sells her personal address for around $100 "Agency Fee", but then charges $180 per bouquet to deliver flowers to herself and keep the correspondence going. The final sting is "the price of the air ticket to the USA so that we can be together, my love" before she acquires a new email address and starts over with the next sucker. "Natasha" weighs around 120kg, is bald, and has a large black beard.
    .
    Neil, I`ve also met shed-loads of NICE Russian ladies and non-sting ones, too. The agencies exist in large numbers to turn a HUGE profit off the gullible. I think you`ll find that ANY industry in Russia works - in some cases - on the same principle - "What can I screw out of this Westerner ? "

  15. #15
    DaveUK1965 Guest
    Originally posted by neilmcg
    I have met (not as a client, I might add) a "Russian girl" whose name is Natasha, in Rostov-On-Don. She sells her personal address for around $100 "Agency Fee", but then charges $180 per bouquet to deliver flowers to herself and keep the correspondence going. The final sting is "the price of the air ticket to the USA so that we can be together, my love" before she acquires a new email address and starts over with the next sucker. "Natasha" weighs around 120kg, is bald, and has a large black beard.
    .
    Neil, I`ve also met shed-loads of NICE Russian ladies and non-sting ones, too. The agencies exist in large numbers to turn a HUGE profit off the gullible. I think you`ll find that ANY industry in Russia works - in some cases - on the same principle - "What can I screw out of this Westerner ? "

    True - there ARE a few good agencies - most are just complete rip offs. Like ALL dating agencies, whether UK <> UK, US <> US , US<>Russia, UK <>Russia, whatever - there is always someone willing to feed you lies so long as the roubles, pounds or dollars keep flowing in,

    How DID you get to find about Natasha, Neil - didn`t the date go as planned ? LOL ! ;-))))))))))))

    Best regards
    Dave

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