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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post
    Of course Joe Rogan doesn't carry much weight and as for the 200 congressmen getting jabbed with, so what? But thanks for throwing him in there.

    The other two articles look scientific. Neither you or I are specialists, so if you believe it, up to you. The map shows ivermectin is used in the US. I didn't know that was true, as an accepted medical practice which the article says is behind the use of ivermectin globally.

    You might know that about 26 trials of ivermectin have been done. They come under criticism by the BBC in this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58170809. I know, I know, you won't accept this source, the BBC being stinking liars through and through in your view...I'm sending it anyway. Now you can feel free to send a link debunking this debunkery. There are several floating around out there.

    So what to believe?

    Some have complained I believe media sources who lie. My contention of course is the opposite, much of right wing media and online sources, including those in favor of ivermectin, are lying through their teeth. On this issue we won't ever agree. It also means I can't prove anything to you with my media sources and you can't prove anything to me with yours.

    So let's move beyond the media and go directly to sources about ivermectin that are institutions, hospitals, government bodies, medical research agencies. Why they would lie, I have no idea. Any thoughts?

    The Mayo Clinic states ivermectin "isn't a drug for treating viruses". Why I wouldn't believe the mayo clinic is something I don't understand. Perhaps someone can explain why I shouldn't.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/faq-20485627
    https://recalls-rappels.canada.ca/en...ealth-problems
    https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-...treat-covid-19
    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...5017.pub2/full
    https://www.medicalprotection.org/so...d-19-treatment
    https://www.albertahealthservices.ca...pid-review.pdf
    https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...py/ivermectin/

    Perhaps the attraction to ivermectin is political? A way to disagree with the system and the status quo? Fight the system by taking a drug against COVID-19 that doesn't work?
    The discussion on ivermectin is a non-starter. While it is a fact it works quite well in many of the countries that it has been used in, the real discussion is about the healthcare in the us and the LACK of an honest conversation and preventative care.

    Its funny how big healthcare and big pharma are only interested in people/insurance companies spending money and not so much in them if they dont.

    Jimmy dore got the vaxx. But he also had complications and is also part of a trial group involving ivermectin as well. And dr robert malone either invented or was on the team that invented the mRNA vaccine technology, so he isnt an anti-vaxxer. They show plenty of official sources involving
    Ivermectin and its value to the world and the impact it has treating covid.

    Also how media fabricated a story and that story was followed verbatim on lefty media and still continues to this day. That of rolling stone and how people were overdosing on ivermectin/horse de-wormer and gunshot victims were left to suffer.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post

    Some have complained I believe media sources who lie. My contention of course is the opposite, much of right wing media and online sources, including those in favor of ivermectin, are lying through their teeth....

    Perhaps the attraction to ivermectin is political? A way to disagree with the system and the status quo? Fight the system by taking a drug against COVID-19 that doesn't work?
    Two very powerful statements.

    And if you look, you can easily explain the difference.

    The profit motive by big pharma. Its no secret they have the largest if not the second largest lobby behind the defense industry.

    And the easy proof of this is just that pfizer said ivermectin is bad while its brand new patented product - pfizermectin IS good. And how its only 99% the same thing. Its that 1% magic sauce which somehow makes it different. And patantable. And therefore profitable.

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post
    Of course Joe Rogan doesn't carry much weight and as for the 200 congressmen getting jabbed with, so what? But thanks for throwing him in there.

    The other two articles look scientific. Neither you or I are specialists, so if you believe it, up to you. The map shows ivermectin is used in the US. I didn't know that was true, as an accepted medical practice which the article says is behind the use of ivermectin globally.

    You might know that about 26 trials of ivermectin have been done. They come under criticism by the BBC in this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58170809. I know, I know, you won't accept this source, the BBC being stinking liars through and through in your view...I'm sending it anyway. Now you can feel free to send a link debunking this debunkery. There are several floating around out there.

    So what to believe?

    Some have complained I believe media sources who lie. My contention of course is the opposite, much of right wing media and online sources, including those in favor of ivermectin, are lying through their teeth. On this issue we won't ever agree. It also means I can't prove anything to you with my media sources and you can't prove anything to me with yours.

    So let's move beyond the media and go directly to sources about ivermectin that are institutions, hospitals, government bodies, medical research agencies. Why they would lie, I have no idea. Any thoughts?

    The Mayo Clinic states ivermectin "isn't a drug for treating viruses". Why I wouldn't believe the mayo clinic is something I don't understand. Perhaps someone can explain why I shouldn't.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/faq-20485627
    https://recalls-rappels.canada.ca/en...ealth-problems
    https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-...treat-covid-19
    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...5017.pub2/full
    https://www.medicalprotection.org/so...d-19-treatment
    https://www.albertahealthservices.ca...pid-review.pdf
    https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...py/ivermectin/

    Perhaps the attraction to ivermectin is political? A way to disagree with the system and the status quo? Fight the system by taking a drug against COVID-19 that doesn't work?
    Here is todays scandal.


    Heart association says mRNA vax increases chances of becoming sick. Twitter blocks it and cries disinfo.

    Why would they block a study from from a very trustworthy source??? Unless it pointed away from where they want to go....

    Screenshot_20211202-121123.jpgScreenshot_20211202-121123.jpg

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  7. #34
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    Russia is one of the last free countries on Earth.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/541855-fin...zen.yandex.com
    If you trust the government you obviously failed history class. " George Carlin"

  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wally View Post
    Russia is one of the last free countries on Earth.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/541855-fin...zen.yandex.com
    It's not all that free. Only relatively so.

  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    It's not all that free. Only relatively so.
    dies free mean i can stand on Red Square and scream -Putin is a louse - and not get arrested? Freedom is somethign else for me. And i know that freedom means that one not only has rights but also obligations. the same as one can not have a work ethics like in the Soviet Union and demand and demand. one of them is european wages... does not work that way.
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by americaninmoscow View Post
    Two very powerful statements.

    And if you look, you can easily explain the difference.

    The profit motive by big pharma. Its no secret they have the largest if not the second largest lobby behind the defense industry.

    And the easy proof of this is just that pfizer said ivermectin is bad while its brand new patented product - pfizermectin IS good. And how its only 99% the same thing. Its that 1% magic sauce which somehow makes it different. And patantable. And therefore profitable.
    Nope, there is no pfizermectin. Pfizer is not using ivermectin in drugs for treating covid.

    You need to widen your base of information sources a bit more.

  11. #38
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    [QUOTE=americaninmoscow;1504002]The discussion on ivermectin is a non-starter. While it is a fact it works quite well in many of the countries that it has been used in, the real discussion is about the healthcare in the us and the LACK of an honest conversation and preventative care.

    Its funny how big healthcare and big pharma are only interested in people/insurance companies spending money and not so much in them if they dont.

    Jimmy dore got the vaxx. But he also had complications and is also part of a trial group involving ivermectin as well. And dr robert malone either invented or was on the team that invented the mRNA vaccine technology, so he isnt an anti-vaxxer. They show plenty of official sources involving
    Ivermectin and its value to the world and the impact it has treating covid.

    Also how media fabricated a story and that story was followed verbatim on lefty media and still continues to this day. That of rolling stone and how people were overdosing on ivermectin/horse de-wormer and gunshot victims were left to suffer. END QUOTE

    I am trying to look out into the future and try to figure out what will happen next. It seems clear that not only will covid-19 mutate and hit us with future waves having unknown potency (perhaps high, perhaps low), future, new viruses will also come. That's because we don't know where these viruses came from and as far as I can tell, no on is doing nearly enough to plug future sources of viruses that have pandemic potential.

    As COVID-19 mutates and new viruses come, we will need drugs that have some chance of slowing down the spread of COVID and future diseases, allowing hospitals to treat people. Drugs are made by pharma companies and approved by agencies such as the FDA and other medical experts. Sad to many and let me say, I'm no fan of big pharma. But there you have it.

    Clearly, big chunk of the world's population trust neither. Ivermectin is only a symptom of this phenomenon, clear proof that such lack of trust exists. Not a single ivermectin supporter changed their view on the subject here, and on another site where I had a similar discussion.

    That means, not only will a large number people be un-vaxed as future waves of covid-19 hit us, they won't vaxx or take many other measures when the next virus comes. Perhaps people will rely on drugs that don't work at all, or are unproven. Gives people hope!

    What this means, I don't know. More people dying? Our top industry being care for people in pandemics? A kind of split society, where some are vaxxed and have some kind of protection while the have nots have much less protection? Time to lock up the more vulnerable elderly for good?

  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post
    Nope, there is no pfizermectin. Pfizer is not using ivermectin in drugs for treating covid.

    You need to widen your base of information sources a bit more.
    No they are not, they just developed a drug that is very similar to Ivermectin and does basically the same thing.
    If you trust the government you obviously failed history class. " George Carlin"

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  14. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post
    Nope, there is no pfizermectin. Pfizer is not using ivermectin in drugs for treating covid.

    You need to widen your base of information sources a bit more.
    Sure thing boss.
    Got a link to a vid of a doc or a medical/white paper on that?


  15. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post
    Nope, there is no pfizermectin. Pfizer is not using ivermectin in drugs for treating covid.

    You need to widen your base of information sources a bit more.
    Sure thing boss.
    Got a link to a vid of a doc or a medical/white paper on that?


  16. #42
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    [QUOTE=xt-tsi;1504013]
    Quote Originally Posted by americaninmoscow View Post
    The discussion on ivermectin is a non-starter. While it is a fact it works quite well in many of the countries that it has been used in, the real discussion is about the healthcare in the us and the LACK of an honest conversation and preventative care.

    Its funny how big healthcare and big pharma are only interested in people/insurance companies spending money and not so much in them if they dont.

    Jimmy dore got the vaxx. But he also had complications and is also part of a trial group involving ivermectin as well. And dr robert malone either invented or was on the team that invented the mRNA vaccine technology, so he isnt an anti-vaxxer. They show plenty of official sources involving
    Ivermectin and its value to the world and the impact it has treating covid.

    Also how media fabricated a story and that story was followed verbatim on lefty media and still continues to this day. That of rolling stone and how people were overdosing on ivermectin/horse de-wormer and gunshot victims were left to suffer. END QUOTE

    I am trying to look out into the future and try to figure out what will happen next. It seems clear that not only will covid-19 mutate and hit us with future waves having unknown potency (perhaps high, perhaps low), future, new viruses will also come. That's because we don't know where these viruses came from and as far as I can tell, no on is doing nearly enough to plug future sources of viruses that have pandemic potential.

    As COVID-19 mutates and new viruses come, we will need drugs that have some chance of slowing down the spread of COVID and future diseases, allowing hospitals to treat people. Drugs are made by pharma companies and approved by agencies such as the FDA and other medical experts. Sad to many and let me say, I'm no fan of big pharma. But there you have it.

    Clearly, big chunk of the world's population trust neither. Ivermectin is only a symptom of this phenomenon, clear proof that such lack of trust exists. Not a single ivermectin supporter changed their view on the subject here, and on another site where I had a similar discussion.

    That means, not only will a large number people be un-vaxed as future waves of covid-19 hit us, they won't vaxx or take many other measures when the next virus comes. Perhaps people will rely on drugs that don't work at all, or are unproven. Gives people hope!

    What this means, I don't know. More people dying? Our top industry being care for people in pandemics? A kind of split society, where some are vaxxed and have some kind of protection while the have nots have much less protection? Time to lock up the more vulnerable elderly for good?
    https://www.rt.com/news/541886-china...vid19-omicron/

    China may have found something to help.

    Why is it the mainstream media, Dr. Fauci and other doctors don't ever talk about our immune system? They never talk about eating right, vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc? Even before Covid doctors didn't tell people about good nutrition. Even before Covid I would take vitamin D during the winter, my wife is absolutely crazy about what my 4 year old daughter eats, she gets no candy or sugar, only honey, the real kind, not store bought. All food is home made. The kid eats more fresh spinach than Popeye the sailor man! Remember you are what you eat, and get some exercise.
    If you trust the government you obviously failed history class. " George Carlin"

  17. #43
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    [QUOTE=xt-tsi;1504013]
    Quote Originally Posted by americaninmoscow View Post
    The discussion on ivermectin is a non-starter. While it is a fact it works quite well in many of the countries that it has been used in, the real discussion is about the healthcare in the us and the LACK of an honest conversation and preventative care.

    Its funny how big healthcare and big pharma are only interested in people/insurance companies spending money and not so much in them if they dont.

    Jimmy dore got the vaxx. But he also had complications and is also part of a trial group involving ivermectin as well. And dr robert malone either invented or was on the team that invented the mRNA vaccine technology, so he isnt an anti-vaxxer. They show plenty of official sources involving
    Ivermectin and its value to the world and the impact it has treating covid.

    Also how media fabricated a story and that story was followed verbatim on lefty media and still continues to this day. That of rolling stone and how people were overdosing on ivermectin/horse de-wormer and gunshot victims were left to suffer. END QUOTE

    I am trying to look out into the future and try to figure out what will happen next. It seems clear that not only will covid-19 mutate and hit us with future waves having unknown potency (perhaps high, perhaps low), future, new viruses will also come. That's because we don't know where these viruses came from and as far as I can tell, no on is doing nearly enough to plug future sources of viruses that have pandemic potential.

    As COVID-19 mutates and new viruses come, we will need drugs that have some chance of slowing down the spread of COVID and future diseases, allowing hospitals to treat people. Drugs are made by pharma companies and approved by agencies such as the FDA and other medical experts. Sad to many and let me say, I'm no fan of big pharma. But there you have it.

    Clearly, big chunk of the world's population trust neither. Ivermectin is only a symptom of this phenomenon, clear proof that such lack of trust exists. Not a single ivermectin supporter changed their view on the subject here, and on another site where I had a similar discussion.

    That means, not only will a large number people be un-vaxed as future waves of covid-19 hit us, they won't vaxx or take many other measures when the next virus comes. Perhaps people will rely on drugs that don't work at all, or are unproven. Gives people hope!

    What this means, I don't know. More people dying? Our top industry being care for people in pandemics? A kind of split society, where some are vaxxed and have some kind of protection while the have nots have much less protection? Time to lock up the more vulnerable elderly for good?
    Fda also seems to have been changed and is now funded by the companies it regulates. Not to mention the massive open door policies of leave one guv place and become ceo at a former place of regulation.

    https://today.uconn.edu/2021/05/why-...-regulates-2/#

    Why is the FDA Funded in Part by the Companies It Regulates? (Later in the article the author attempts to explain it as a good thing and says its cuz of aids....which apparently fauci had a big role in that scandal as well.)


    Screenshot_20211204-004228.jpg


    Screenshot_20211204-002926.png

    https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...keeps-spinning


    But what happens when government leaders leave Washington for cushy jobs on corporate boards? Former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Commissioner Scott Gottlieb is just the latest administration official to go through the revolving door after his second tour at the FDA.

    Gottlieb recently resigned from his spot as the top federal drug regulator to take on a role at Pfizer-the top drug producer in the United States. The move came with a nice cash bonus as well, as stock options doubled the former commissioner's income to upwards of $330,000.

    Big Pharma CEOs across the board were sad to see Gottlieb leave. Chief Executives at Novartis and Alnylam Pharmaceuticals publicly thanked him for his work at the FDA-even saying "we're going to miss him."



    In his time as head of the FDA, Gottlieb lowered the number of inspections at both foreign and domestic drug manufacturers producing drugs sold in the United States. He also sped up the approval process for experimental and generic drugs, leading many to question whether the "newer and cheaper" drugs hitting the market were actually safe. Those policies directly benefited Big Pharma bottom lines.

    But Gottlieb's hiring is just the latest in a long line of moves to fortify the industry's influence in Washington. Big Pharma spending on lobbying eclipses every other industry according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

    Current Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar-Gottlieb's former boss-used to be president of Lilly USA, the U.S. branch of pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly. Trump lauded his appointment by calling Azar a "star for better healthcare and lower drug prices," but during his time there the company raised the brand's insulin prices threefold creating a crisis and drawing public outrage.

    Here it is from lefty sources like npr before trump

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...da-to-industry

    More than a quarter of the Food and Drug Administration employees who approved cancer and hematology drugs from 2001 through 2010 left the agency and now work or consult for pharmaceutical companies, according to research published by a prominent medical journal Tuesday.

    Screenshot_20211204-003659.jpg

  18. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedikt View Post
    dies free mean i can stand on Red Square and scream -Putin is a louse - and not get arrested? Freedom is somethign else for me. And i know that freedom means that one not only has rights but also obligations. the same as one can not have a work ethics like in the Soviet Union and demand and demand. one of them is european wages... does not work that way.
    C'mon, Ben, you're putting an idea of freedom that I don't hold on me - a caricature of the idea. I certainly agree with you on obligations. I would even say that freedom can only exist if there are boundaries to it. But to have reason to fear saying what you think both true and important does mean a loss of essential freedom that became the norm in America and the West, and which even came to Russia for twenty years or so, but has been fading, here as there.

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    As for the rest of your post on why we will all die and suffer because of something something its just a pathetic lefty liberal rant. Go to Portland and seattle and its the same stupid crap and boring repetitive phrases and loopy logic. I guess they all read from the same party book. Swedish grandmas are just as likely to kill us as middle eastern dudes yelling iwanna snackbar! And drugs are pretty awesome until they arent and even then we need to give people free stuff cuz they have problems in their life. And cops should be defunded and there should be no laws unless ted wheelers apt gets firebombed and then we need cops and laws.


    Anyways, here is a great breakdown of the left thinker vs the right. Begins at 6:00 but really starts at about 7. He goes off into other stuff but for this post, we only need about 6 minutes.



    As for the rest, omnicrom follows the path we would expect of a virus which is a less lethal and more mild strain. Notice how it hasnt killed anyone yet? And appeared all over?

    Rumor has it that big pharma and big guv want to close borders cuz its the vax killing people, not the rona. Or at least this strain. And this new variant will put the issue of vaxx to sleep cuz now its not needed. Omnicrom to save us all!! As it turns rona into the flu 2.0

    Oh, and by the way here is the pdf to those harmed by pfizer from pfizer as ruled by a judge and forced to released a few days ago.

    https://phmpt.org › 2021/11PDF
    5.3.6 cumulative analysis of post-authorization adverse event

    And here is a widely cited research paper on the effectiveness of ivermectin. One of many that are easy to find. Again, the kovid hunter didnt just save his hundreds of patients with ivermectin, the idea came from somewhere. And ivermectin only played a small but important role.

    (Listed on the nih website, btw.)

    Quantitative proteomics reveals a broad‐spectrum antiviral property of ivermectin, benefiting for COVID‐19 treatment

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7536980/

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