BOMB BOMB BOMB - americans at it again, launching terrorist attacks on Syria

[rumple_stilskin]

We already talked about this. You evidently didn't pay attention to my response then. Yes, he threw a couple of bones to the neocon warhawk base. And THAT WAS ALL. Literally, a couple of bones. It's not possible to intelligently try to compare and equate the few strikes Trump authorized with the hundreds of strikes under Obama, Clinton and the Bushes. You can pretend to claim equivalency. I will judge that unworthy of consideration.

It was an act of war, in case you hadn't noticed

[americaninmoscow]

It was an act of war, in case you hadn't noticed

To be honest, it's debatable if it actually happened at all. (Trump shooting missiles at Syria).

Yes, the western press hyped it up, but if u go back and see the coverage, you will notice that it's mostly keywords and chest beating, while the Russian and syrian media actually showed the damage. Which was virtualy non existent.

Yes, the americans said they launcehed 27 cruise missiles and not all reached their destination, but it's also true that the footage shown on Russian media clearly showed only very minor damage. Like, a few small potholes in the runway minor, and a nose cone or two. Not only that, but there was next to none damage done to the syrian military hardware, if I remember correctly.

So, the big question at the time was what really happened. Did russia or syria shoot the missiles down? Were they jammed? Was there a warning beforehand? We're the missiles old? Etc.

It was a great mystery and one that was quickly forgotten.

[rusmeister]

It was an act of war, in case you hadn't noticed

Yes, of course. As all other Presidents have done in recent decades. What you don't seem (I do say "seem") to want to notice is that Trump did far fewer such acts than any president in my adult memory. He did literally just a few over his four years. He gave in to pressure from the warhawks and it was wrong. But he stood up to them and against their aim of Forever War far more than anybody else ever has.

[TolkoRaz]

We already talked about this. You evidently didn't pay attention to my response then. Yes, he threw a couple of bones to the neocon warhawk base. And THAT WAS ALL. Literally, a couple of bones. It's not possible to intelligently try to compare and equate the few strikes Trump authorized with the hundreds of strikes under Obama, Clinton and the Bushes. You can pretend to claim equivalency. I will judge that unworthy of consideration.

Of course there were less strikes as the frequent use of drones etc in the war against aQ and IS had been expedited by Trump's predecessors.

But glad that you support Trump's decision to slaughter less innocent Muslims simply living their peaceful lives in foreign lands.

[rusmeister]

Of course there were less strikes as the frequent use of drones etc in the war against aQ and IS had been expedited by Trump's predecessors.

But glad that you support Trump's decision to slaughter less innocent Muslims simply living their peaceful lives in foreign lands.

Tolko, why do you not try to understand what I actually think? I specifically said, “He gave in to pressure from the warhawks and it was wrong.”

One wonders why you don’t stridently condemn Obama or Biden for engaging in attacks on Muslim territory far more often and consistently than Trumps 2-3 attacks sum total?

[TolkoRaz]

Tolko, why do you not try to understand what I actually think? I specifically said, “He gave in to pressure from the warhawks and it was wrong.”

One wonders why you don’t stridently condemn Obama or Biden for engaging in attacks on Muslim territory far more often and consistently than Trumps 2-3 attacks sum total?

I did, but I was also very disappointed to see Trump silent about the Saudi murder of Khashoggi in the Istanbul embassy, and Trump's support of Saudi and the atrocious war in The Yemen!

Pleased to now see Biden releasing the Khashoggi report and pull back from supporting Saudi and their military interventions.

Great to see MBS being held accountable for a despicable murder and abuse of power.

[Uncle Wally]

I did, but I was also very disappointed to see Trump silent about the Saudi murder of Khashoggi in the Istanbul embassy, and Trump's support of Saudi and the atrocious war in The Yemen!

Pleased to now see Biden releasing the Khashoggi report and pull back from supporting Saudi and their military interventions.

Great to see MBS being held accountable for a despicable murder and abuse of power.

Don't forget that Trump killed the Iranian General and tried to send in assassins to kill the President of Venezuela, not to mention the sanctions he put on the country. For all the good things Trump did he also did some pretty bad things.

[rusmeister]

I did, but I was also very disappointed to see Trump silent about the Saudi murder of Khashoggi in the Istanbul embassy, and Trump's support of Saudi and the atrocious war in The Yemen!

Pleased to now see Biden releasing the Khashoggi report and pull back from supporting Saudi and their military interventions.

Great to see MBS being held accountable for a despicable murder and abuse of power.

I actually agree with you a lot here, though both then and now I don’t get much from you in the line of strident condemnation of the evils Obama and Biden supported in the Middle East.

In these things, we should desire to see things in their right proportion. All presidents since WWII have supported undeclared overseas wars, both Republican and Democrat. Since Reagan, they have conducted military action in the Middle East, the land of Semites, both Jewish and Arab. In proper perspective, you can find only a few actions that Trump condoned. In the 16 years prior to Trump, the Bush/Obama years, we can find many dozens, if not a hundred or more such actions, quite easily for both of those administrations. So when you complain about Trump (and I think a few of your complaints legitimate), if you wish to be seen as a man of balanced mind, you should admit that he did far less for war and far more for peace than either of his predecessors. If you don’t, then you are just another boring partisan. I agree with you on Kashoggi and the Saudis, and on the military strikes he ordered. I see your side, and admitbthe justice of those complaints. The question is whether you see mine.

[americaninmoscow]

Don't forget that Trump killed the Iranian General and tried to send in assassins to kill the President of Venezuela, not to mention the sanctions he put on the country. For all the good things Trump did he also did some pretty bad things.

One story I've heard suggested the iranian leadership was fed up with the "general" and made a deal with the us to have him be taken out.

Let's not forget during the entire trump administration, high level us person's were making deals and whispering in key iranian leadership's ear.

For instance, john kerryss family has married into the iranian elite.

So, it's not as if they are not without their own reasons

[TolkoRaz]

I actually agree with you a lot here, though both then and now I don’t get much from you in the line of strident condemnation of the evils Obama and Biden supported in the Middle East.

In these things, we should desire to see things in their right proportion. All presidents since WWII have supported undeclared overseas wars, both Republican and Democrat. Since Reagan, they have conducted military action in the Middle East, the land of Semites, both Jewish and Arab. In proper perspective, you can find only a few actions that Trump condoned. In the 16 years prior to Trump, the Bush/Obama years, we can find many dozens, if not a hundred or more such actions, quite easily for both of those administrations. So when you complain about Trump (and I think a few of your complaints legitimate), if you wish to be seen as a man of balanced mind, you should admit that he did far less for war and far more for peace than either of his predecessors. If you don’t, then you are just another boring partisan. I agree with you on Kashoggi and the Saudis, and on the military strikes he ordered. I see your side, and admitbthe justice of those complaints. The question is whether you see mine.

Yes, I agree with you 100% on these issues.

[TolkoRaz]

One story I've heard suggested the iranian leadership was fed up with the "general" and made a deal with the us to have him be taken out.

The US of A would not be foolish enough to walk into a possible trap set by the Iranians and, perhaps more critically, the Iranians are perfectly capable of making their own people 'disappear' or launch a red flag 'Mossad' or Sayeret Matkal operation on Iranian soil!

[americaninmoscow]

The US of A would not be foolish enough to walk into a possible trap set by the Iranians and, perhaps more critically, the Iranians are perfectly capable of making their own people 'disappear' or launch a red flag 'Mossad' or Sayeret Matkal operation on Iranian soil!

Yeah.

Not believing. Powerful people off competitors all the time.

Especially ones that deal only in death and get in other powerful people's way.

[TheInterocitor]

Y'all are circling around but not getting to the main point.

The majority of Americans do not want to get into a war with Iran, especially young male Americans.

The majority of Iranians do not want to get into a war with America, especially young male Iranians.

Right now, Iran and America are ruled by illegitimate leaders whose foreign policies do not have the support of the majority of their people.

When the people, in China, US, Iran, etc. can get control of their own governments away from the rich and powerful oligarchs, then we will have real peace.

[Judge]

I did, but I was also very disappointed to see Trump silent about the Saudi murder of Khashoggi in the Istanbul embassy, and Trump's support of Saudi and the atrocious war in The Yemen!

Pleased to now see Biden releasing the Khashoggi report and pull back from supporting Saudi and their military interventions.

Great to see MBS being held accountable for a despicable murder and abuse of power.

Then you must be even more disappointed with Biden, he's failed his first test.

"Biden meekly gives Saudi crown prince 'one free murder' pass on Khashoggi"
"2019, then-presidential candidate Joe Biden said this: "Jamal Khashoggi was, in fact, murdered and dismembered, and I believe on the order of the crown prince. And I would make it very clear we were not going to, in fact, sell more weapons to them, we were going to, in fact, make them pay the price and make them, in fact, the pariah that they are. "


This posture towards the Saudis was rightly not embraced by Washington Post publisher Fred Ryan, who ripped the president for breaking a major campaign promise, while mocking Psaki for her "recalibrating" comment. "The man whom Biden described as a 'pariah' is about to escape personal liability for a murder he ordered as we offer diplomatic-speak about 'recalibration' rather than insist on accountability," Ryan added. "It appears as though under the Biden administration, despots who offer momentarily strategic value to the United States might be given a 'one free murder' pass."

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...s-on-khashoggi

[TolkoRaz]

Right now, Iran and America are ruled by illegitimate leaders.............................