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Thread: Russia moves to destabilize Belarus

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedikt View Post
    one thing though impresses me most by all these protests in Belarus. No looting shops, no burning cars, no stones ripped out from pavements.no overturned trash cans. even o nthe big pic, and the white red white flags, traffic is not being hindered to flow. should make one think about, shouldn't it? Merkel Still calls Lukashenko President, by the way...
    They are not idiots like Americans are.
    If you trust the government you obviously failed history class. " George Carlin"

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  4. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wally View Post
    They are not idiots like Americans are.
    They are just in different stages of the "uprising".

    America has been under continual pressure since Trump was elected, and before even. A flare up here or there and then it seemingly disappears, while the leaders get more training or organize better. Belarus is still in the first phases of harmony. There is a saying in the us. - still waters run deep.

  5. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by americaninmoscow View Post
    They are just in different stages of the "uprising".

    America has been under continual pressure since Trump was elected, and before even. A flare up here or there and then it seemingly disappears, while the leaders get more training or organize better. Belarus is still in the first phases of harmony. There is a saying in the us. - still waters run deep.
    What kind of pressure and from whom? It went pretty quick in the US because they started breaking things and looting on the second day
    If you trust the government you obviously failed history class. " George Carlin"

  6. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wally View Post
    What kind of pressure and from whom? It went pretty quick in the US because they started breaking things and looting on the second day
    Blm has had gatherings and meetings and demonstrations for years now. People have even gotten beaten and killed at them. This suummer it just entered another stage and also became covered by mainstream media more. But it's also anarchist groups that are embedded or hiding alongside the groups. So, there are many different groups of people at these gatherings.

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    Looks like "The Telegraph" stepped in it again, in their exuberance to incite another violent revolution.

    The video starts off by claiming that "Hundreds of Thousands" of protesters to the streets of Minsk (00.04). However, later (after the titles were added to the video), when the video was posted, the Telegraph caption below says "Thousands of protesters".

    "Demonstrations continued to sweep Belarus on Sunday as thousands of people gathered in the capital Minsk in the latest protest against the country's longtime ruler, President Alexander Lukashenko."

    "Defund the Social Sciences." - Fantastika, 2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheInterocitor View Post
    Demonstrations continued to sweep Belarus on Sunday as thousands of people gathered in the capital Minsk
    So, 2 thousands of juvenile idiots.

    Gulag arhipelag!
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    And all the men and women merely agents

  9. #143
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    It seems to me that the opposing sides are both willing to exaggerate or downplay the situation.

    Defining the sides, where the line seems to be drawn everywhere helps, so that we can understand why expats and Russians and people in general are for or against political regimes (of Putin, Lukashenko, or at the moment, Trump) or protests against them (or ostensibly so), even and more interestingly ones that they are not subject to.

    It’s about the war of fashion vs tradition, which spreads into every corner of the earth. It’s about those who have been led to believe that “everything changes” (and should change) vs those who believe that some things, such as moral standards, ought not to change. Globalist multiculturalists vs nationalists who believe their own nation and historical culture ought to be their main concern. It’s the (self-imagined) elites with modern educations who know better than their ancestors and the saints of the past vs humble people who think that their ancestors and the saints knew better than we on things that truly matter. For some strange reason, Trump in the US has chosen to lean more toward the latter. Not completely, and not always wisely, but on the whole, to draw a line across the trends to an imagined utopia the fashionable globalists have been pushing us all towards.

    Yes, in each country there are local circumstances that distinguish them. But even then, most fall onto one of those two sides.

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  11. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by americaninmoscow View Post
    Blm has had gatherings and meetings and demonstrations for years now. People have even gotten beaten and killed at them. This suummer it just entered another stage and also became covered by mainstream media more. But it's also anarchist groups that are embedded or hiding alongside the groups. So, there are many different groups of people at these gatherings.
    What was that,American? I can't hear you over the excuses you're making for looters and rioters.



    Seriously, man, those lawbreakers have the entirety of the MSM (except the ONE station you mentioned), Democrat Party, bureaucracy, and, honestly, much of the Republican party, on their side.
    They don't need Patriot conservatives (I'm making an assumption here) shilling for them, too.
    I am fascinated by Russia, this country with frigid weather, hard souls, and hot girls!

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  13. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    It seems to me that the opposing sides are both willing to exaggerate or downplay the situation.

    <...>
    Yes, in each country there are local circumstances that distinguish them. But even then, most fall onto one of those two sides.
    Bipolarity is natural - in physics, chemistry, geography, biology, society, sociology...

    All the world's Kremlin,
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  14. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    It seems to me that the opposing sides are both willing to exaggerate or downplay the situation.

    Defining the sides, where the line seems to be drawn everywhere helps, so that we can understand why expats and Russians and people in general are for or against political regimes (of Putin, Lukashenko, or at the moment, Trump) or protests against them (or ostensibly so), even and more interestingly ones that they are not subject to.

    It’s about the war of fashion vs tradition, which spreads into every corner of the earth. It’s about those who have been led to believe that “everything changes” (and should change) vs those who believe that some things, such as moral standards, ought not to change.
    That might make good book title - "The War - Fashion Vs. Tradition" but doesn't really "jump out" from the bookstore bookshelf, but might generate curiosity in the browser. "War" is a word everyone notices...and the title doesn't antagonize anyone.

    My idea "Jesus and the Snowflakes" is more in your face, but I would lose half my potential customers. "Snowflake" has become derogatory, and anything with "Jesus" in it will frighten away the intelligentsia or those who aspire to be intelligent.

    I love "The Snapping of the American Mind" but it's already taken.

    "The Mob, the Media, and You"....

    "America's Choice - The Ten Commandments or the Ten Values"

    ...
    Globalist multiculturalists vs nationalists who believe their own nation and historical culture ought to be their main concern. It’s the (self-imagined) elites with modern educations who know better than their ancestors and the saints of the past vs humble people who think that their ancestors and the saints knew better than we on things that truly matter. For some strange reason, Trump in the US has chosen to lean more toward the latter. Not completely, and not always wisely, but on the whole, to draw a line across the trends to an imagined utopia the fashionable globalists have been pushing us all towards.

    Yes, in each country there are local circumstances that distinguish them. But even then, most fall onto one of those two sides.
    Trump is seen by some as (lone) bodyguard of Western Civilization, elected to protect American families from the vengeful mob that seeks to destroy our way of life, our neighborhoods, our churches, our schools and values, to protect us against those who hate America and want to tear it own. Trump never imagined he would be so pilloried by the falso-idol worshippers merely for taking the mantle of American President, and assuming responsibility fro leadership of our civilizxaiton.

    President Putin might be cast in a similar role, similar in his support of religious tradition, as a foundation for a civilized society. Lukashenko may envision himself as keeping the dragons of chaos at bay, by opposing the Left. Maybe they can see how much their lives "improved" in Ukraine since the coup.

    Certainly the present-day Left, at least on the university, has no organized system of morality and ethics, they offer only meaningless and transitory "values". They offer no system whereby one can determine what is "right" and what is "wrong." Their overriding concern is the destruction of everything foundational in Western Civilization.

    Compare Western Civilization to an old apartment building, built long ago by the "Traditionalists". The elevators (lifts) don't always work, the electricity suffers from time to time, there is a leak in the roof (compare to Christians who gamble, steal, cheat, etc...). The Left, however, wants to loot it and then burn it down, leaving us with no residence at all.
    Last edited by TheInterocitor; 26-08-2020 at 23:19.
    "Defund the Social Sciences." - Fantastika, 2020

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  16. #147
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    Lukashenko calls Macron (a hypocrite)

    ‘Why didn't you hand over power to Yellow Vests?' Belarus’s Lukashenko tells Macron after French leader calls for his resignation.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/501871-luk...arus-protests/

    Lukashenko makes a good point vis-a-vis the Macaroni Man...

    "Defund the Social Sciences." - Fantastika, 2020

  17. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by americaninmoscow View Post
    Exciting times!

    Belarus has arrested 10 terrorists with direct ties.to.Russian military intelligence and are hunting for more.

    The plot has been described as a destabilizion one, with the russians attempting to influence the upcoming elections apparently thru bombings and other terror acts.

    But why Belarus? Apparently, Putin has decided it's time for a regime change in a neighboring country.

    Now, lukashenko must decide, charge the men that have been apprehended and create a further strain between Moscow, or charge them and look to the west.

    What will he do?
    This narrative just doesn't make any sense to me.
    The current Russian government (by which I mean the entire governing cl**** including Putin) benefit from stable relations with Belarus, and would benefit even more from on with both Belarus and Ukraine. That is precisely what the Western plutocrats wanted to break up and did break up in ~2008-2014. Russia does NOT benefit from conflict with them; what has gone in in both UK and BR threatens the government here. They totally don't want to encourage any "orange" revolutions, especially in neighboring states. It's too close to home and encouragement to people to change the regime here.
    Last edited by rusmeister; 01-10-2020 at 09:14.

  18. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    This narrative just doesn't make any sense to me.
    The current Russian government (by which I mean the entire governing cl**** including Putin) benefit from stable relations with Belarus, and would benefit even more from on with both Belarus and Ukraine. That is precisely what the Western plutocrats wanted to break up and did break up in ~2008-2014. Russia does NOT benefit from conflict with them; what has gone in in both UK and BR threatens the government here. They totally don't want to encourage any "orange" revolutions, especially in neighboring states. It's too close to home and encouragement to people to change the regime here.
    The media would have us believe that Russia was fomenting revolution in Belarus, while the Western Left/Soros/Social media giants were organizing the actual coup, as in Ukraine.

    Possibly even Lukashenko was fooled by the media false flag story.

    The coup failed in the US, but watch Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Google go completely bat-guano insane if Trump wins, in 33 days...
    "Defund the Social Sciences." - Fantastika, 2020

  19. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    This narrative just doesn't make any sense to me.
    The current Russian government (by which I mean the entire governing cl**** including Putin) benefit from stable relations with Belarus, and would benefit even more from on with both Belarus and Ukraine. That is precisely what the Western plutocrats wanted to break up and did break up in ~2008-2014. Russia does NOT benefit from conflict with them; what has gone in in both UK and BR threatens the government here. They totally don't want to encourage any "orange" revolutions, especially in neighboring states. It's too close to home and encouragement to people to change the regime here.
    No. That's because you are too close and want it to be true.

    Certain Russian elites have openly spoken since the 90s of "absorbing" Belarus.

    America uses game theory in almost all political andilitary relations (and not only). Russia doesn't believe in game theory, but has developed its own theory, the name of which escapes me now, but is essentially a variety of the hegelian dialect. So, Russia believes in letting actors have their freedom to choose, asong as it's among the choices Russia has presented.

    In this case, my guess is that Russian intel has long monitored the situation in Belarus and knew a color revolution was in play. Essentially, the fire was going to be lit on the ass of lukashenko. So, in order to motivate him to go in the "proper" direction, they sent forces to gently rock the boat and begin to put pressure on the belarussian leadership. Once the color revolution reached a certain point, the belarussian leadership quickly understood there were two ways forward, either into the arms of the west or Russia. It should be noted the likashenkos son has been groomed to take over Belarus. Heck, dmitri medvedev gave him a gold pistol when he was around 8 years old. And it's telling that his son is now in russia. It's wild, but a thought I just had - this situation reminds of early soviet china relations where leadership would hold family members essentially hostage as a way of demonstrating peaceful intentions, all under the guise of "enhancing cultural relations".

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