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Thread: VV until 2036,wonder if WE will make it that long...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatAndy View Post
    Ah, your favourite smelly garbage container, finanz...
    7 $$ is at the moment nearly 500 Rubles. a day. i am talking, one could assume, about pensioners? free transport, free medical service, even if it is the local Policlinic only, subsidised living and utilities. -i- do not need Gucci loafers ( most of them are fake ones even the ones made in Italy). i do not need a Hugo Boss suit, again, most probably a fake and made in China. neither do i need Coca Cola and McD or KFC for breakfast,lunch and dinner...Goa or Thailand, or skiing somewhere in the Antarctis has no appeal to me. And neither do i need bottled water, made from -virgin -Icebergs 100 Million years old...sure it is hard and not always easy here. But i would not want to change it...
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TolkoRaz View Post
    But, the Tsar remains!
    Let's see:
    "Elvis is alive", Elvis it the king, the one and only, many people can verify that they had see him different places, so he's still here.
    "The Tsar remains", is a metaphor telling that the Tsar will always be around, but, as of today he is not here any more.

    I like both, there is cool story's about both, properly not 100% true, but if the story is good then fine with me.

  3. #18
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    7 $$ is at the moment nearly 500 Rubles. a day. i am talking, one could assume, about pensioners?
    Why would you assume that? Are pensioners 45% of the Russian population? I spend USD15 on food and cigs alone in Pyatorochka every day (only for me), and this is only for breakfast and dinner because I dine out often, so I cannot even begin to imagine how half of the Russians survive. Well, most of the males I know consume mainly cheap vodka, many die at the age of 40-45 or even before that. Yesterday I met two dudes who are 30 and 31, they both look like 45-50, most of the front teeth are missing (the other teeth are mostly missing as well I assume), one of them is half bald. I give them 5-10 years to live max. Both adore Putin and seem to live from hand to mouth. Guess that's the explanation how most of those Russians survive on USD7 or less per day - they don't survive, they die early.

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    "The Tsar remains", is a metaphor telling that the Tsar will always be around, but, as of today he is not here any more.
    How is Putin different from a tsar? He and his buddies own the country. I think the tsar had much less power if you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
    Yesterday I met two dudes who are 30 and 31, they both look like 45-50, most of the front teeth are missing (the other teeth are mostly missing as well I assume), one of them is half bald.
    Typical SPb intellectuals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
    I think the tsar had much less power if you ask me.
    Sure. Especially the last one.
    Last edited by FatAndy; 09-07-2020 at 18:29.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
    Why would you assume that? Are pensioners 45% of the Russian population? I spend USD15 on food and cigs alone in Pyatorochka every day (only for me), and this is only for breakfast and dinner because I dine out often, so I cannot even begin to imagine how half of the Russians survive. Well, most of the males I know consume mainly cheap vodka, many die at the age of 40-45 or even before that. Yesterday I met two dudes who are 30 and 31, they both look like 45-50, most of the front teeth are missing (the other teeth are mostly missing as well I assume), one of them is half bald. I give them 5-10 years to live max. Both adore Putin and seem to live from hand to mouth. Guess that's the explanation how most of those Russians survive on USD7 or less per day - they don't survive, they die early.
    maybe you mix with the wrong people?
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
    How is Putin different from a tsar? He and his buddies own the country.
    And then what? In the great US of A and many other country's, there are a similar problem, the country(s) are own by a very small group of people that in one form or an other controls everything included the president, if you want to know more search for George Carlin on Youtube, be prepared that you may need a lot of time to hear his messages, Noam Chomsky is an other one to search for if you have nothing better to do, they both did predict a lot of the stuff that happen today years ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hans.KK View Post
    And then what? In the great US of A and many other country's, there are a similar problem, the country(s) are own by a very small group of people that in one form or an other controls everything included the president, if you want to know more search for George Carlin on Youtube, be prepared that you may need a lot of time to hear his messages, Noam Chomsky is an other one to search for if you have nothing better to do, they both did predict a lot of the stuff that happen today years ahead.
    Then everything. Even the power of the US president is way more limited. When one single person has a huge control it is detrimental to the country and, largely, to the overall global security and stability. The previous century proved it to everyone who has the ability to think. I don't idealize the West and its structures, but they are way more advanced than what we have in place here in Russia, people are way more prosperous on the whole. Even a New York homeless vagabond has a better life than an average Russian pensioner. My mother's pension, for instance, is USD180 per month - that's after 9 (nine) years of studies at a medical university to become a pedeatrician and 40 years on the job. Thank you, mister Putin...

    maybe you mix with the wrong people?
    Why, typical Russians.

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    VVP is a lot more intelligent than the typical czar or president like Boris Yeltsin. He recognizes the causes of the decline of the West and seeks to prevent the same thing happening in Russia. The problems of poverty and corruption, those are separate issues.

    If Putin is no longer the leader, he would probably be replaced by a snowflake like Macron, Obama, May... Then you would have decline of order, degenerating to mob rule in the streets (like 1917) and chaos such as in the USA now. The mal-educated social engineers graduating from the elitist universities are far more radical than you might think.

    One would like Putin to emulate someone like Czar Katerina the Great? But she did not solve problems of poverty or corruption.

    In America all NGO institutions have been corrupted by the Left (I mean "corrupted" not in financial terms, but in the sense of not following their own original code of ethics). The last two ito bite the dust are the Catholic Church, being sued by greedy lawyers and homosexual activists, aided by the media, into bankruptcy, irrelevancy and impotence, and the Boy Scouts, destroyed by feminists. Federal Government in DC has now been totally corrupted. The Washington Establishment follows its own agenda. The military will not follow orders from the President. State and Big City governments are run by well-meaning but idiotic, post-graduate, social justice warrior snowflakes.

    I totally sympathize with your grievances about poverty. If the US had not continued its anti-Russian Cold War after Perestroika, and allowed Russia into the WTO as it did with China, I believe Russian economy would now be similar, on a per capita basis, to a Scandinavian country. US is a lot to blame for leading the West in suppressing Russia with sanctions and unfair trade practices over past 3 decades.
    Last edited by TheInterocitor; 10-07-2020 at 19:38.
    Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?

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  14. #25
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    There are far too many problems going on in the world to squabble about our typical, hackeneyed "Are Russians actually that poor" or "is Putin actually a benevelont or malevolent dictator?" questions - we've already debated these questions ad nauseum, for almost six years, with no consensus reached!

    As I said, we're asking the wrong questions, so of course the answers are coming up confounded and wrong!

    Why did Putin go along with the West and expand his original flu limit of only Quarantining the elderly? What did he have to gain from that; whom was he able to harm in an isolated way (seems like it only hurt EVERYONE, like a carpet bombing campaign!)? Or, if the expanded voluntary involuntary Quarantine was Sobyanin's idea only, why hasn't he been sufficiently punished yet?
    And why hasn't he used orders to force all the regions to reopen their economies??
    I don't see how Russia's flu response this year has helped Putin in any way, and so I must question, dear RLad, your theory that Putin is a dictator in charge of everything!
    I am fascinated by Russia, this country with frigid weather, hard souls, and hot girls!

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    I don't see how Russia's flu response this year has helped Putin in any way, and so I must question, dear RLad, your theory that Putin is a dictator in charge of everything!

    I understand your confusion and misunderstanding since you are a foreigner. The explanation is very simple - he didn't want to bear responsibility in the time of a dire pandemic crisis, so he hid in a bunker and put this responsibility squarely on the sholders of the governors whom he changes at will because they are fully under his personal control.

    The problems of poverty and corruption, those are separate issues.
    Those are not separate issues, those are the problems that we have solely because of his "leadership". They are the direct result. Unlike you, I am not ready to blame the West for those two local problems. Exorbitantly high oil and gas prices alone for the whole decade could have let us build a rich country here similar to what they have in Norway or Sweden. It didn't happen and we live on the economic ruins and only dire, abject, African-style poverty is ahead for most of the Russians, when the old people, women and their little crying children will have nothing to eat but potato peels soup and rotten chicken wings on weekends and holidays.

    Why did Putin go along with the West and expand his original flu limit of only Quarantining the elderly? What did he have to gain from that; whom was he able to harm in an isolated way (seems like it only hurt EVERYONE, like a carpet bombing campaign!)? Or, if the expanded voluntary involuntary Quarantine was Sobyanin's idea only, why hasn't he been sufficiently punished yet?
    And why hasn't he used orders to force all the regions to reopen their economies??
    They called it "voluntary self-isolation" instead of "quarantine" for a very simple reason - they wanted to keep the state compensation payments to an absolute minimum - and they fully succeeded. Most Russians have received nothing, zero, zilch, nada, дырку от бублика. They didn't even bother to organize the distribution of free masks when they implemented dire fines for not wearing them in public.
    Last edited by Russian Lad; 10-07-2020 at 21:17.

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  17. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
    I understand your confusion and misunderstanding since you are a foreigner. The explanation is very simple - he didn't want to bear responsibility in the time of a dire pandemic crisis, so he hid in a bunker and put this responsibility squarely on the sholders of the governors whom he changes at will because they are fully under his personal control.
    Very good, you have described essentially our federalism (and States' rights) and have described the HOW, operationally, of what he did...


    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
    They called it "voluntary self-isolation" instead of "quarantine" for a very simple reason - they wanted to keep the state compensation payments to an absolute minimum - and they fully succeeded. Most Russians have received nothing, zero, zilch, nada, дырку от бублика. They didn't even bother to organize the distribution of free masks when they implemented dire fines for not wearing them in public.
    But this does not even begin to describe the WHY of what he did...to avoid paying stipends!? (welfare which he would not have had to pay at all, had he not instituted (through governors) these too-broad "voluntary involuntary isolation decrees."

    Look, I called it in the very beginning that since our leaders do not have our best interests at heart, I do not trust them to make decisions that will benefit us, the laymen.
    What I did not consider (and I get it, this is hard for you, too), is that the leaders would make decisions that hurt them themselves, since *other people* (parallel to the leaders, above them?? Are these people at the WHO, inside our respective governments?) are essentially calling the shots.
    You have long ago accepted as fact that Putin looks out for himself in the decisions he makes,but cannot even comprehend enough to debate it, WHY Putin would make policy decisions (like the CoVid ones) that hurt himself. Only a few countries out there insulated themselves from panicky pandemic policy decisions - what is the common denominator that allowed them to do so? I had always thought Russia was pretty independent, but this CoVid mess has me rethinking that assumption!
    Crazy times!
    I am fascinated by Russia, this country with frigid weather, hard souls, and hot girls!

  18. #28
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    Very good, you have described essentially our federalism (and States' rights) and have described the HOW, operationally, of what he did...
    Not at all, you are deliberately excluding one pivotal point from the picture - does the US president have full control over the governors, does he assign, fire or arrest them at will?

    You have long ago accepted as fact that Putin looks out for himself in the decisions he makes,but cannot even comprehend enough to debate it, WHY Putin would make policy decisions (like the CoVid ones) that hurt himself. Only a few countries out there insulated themselves from panicky pandemic policy decisions - what is the common denominator that allowed them to do so? I had always thought Russia was pretty independent, but this CoVid mess has me rethinking that assumption!
    Crazy times!
    My point was/is that he has an unbridled power, ulike, say, the US president. Of course he mainly looks after the interest of his buddies and his own interests. They have played along the overall global covid hysterics, but don't forget - they have used it to conduct a one week "voting on the tree stumps" to fit their interests, among other things. Rest assured they act pretty much independently... What they cannot really control or properly manage is the economic situation, the system they have created cannot be sustainable. Like I said, I expect a hot autumn economics-wise here.

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  20. #29
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    I think you're right, RL, about evils of the Russian political system, which IS inferior to that of the US, and as we have seen, much more amenable to arbitrary top-down change. But I think blaming everything on Putin to be as mistaken as blaming everything on the West. I don’t think his power is “unbridled”. I think the real power ultimately resides in bureaucracies that will do what he wants as long as he doesn’t cross them, in massive organizations that existed before he was even born and will certainly outlive him.
    So he can do cosmetic changes that don’t affect them, like these amendments, unrelated issues bundled together in a package vote, forcing people to give a single answer to all in one shot. But he’s helpless to do anything substantive about the power structures.

  21. #30
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    RL,
    Putin told local governors ,mayors to decide because they have a better understanding of the situation in their towns, cities.
    Also, Putin didn't hide, should he have gone around like leaders of the UK, Brazil and catch the virus??
    Russia's handling of this virus from the start is up there with the other countries who handled this crisis in a positive way.


    And, they added even more to the coffers.

    "Russian gold and foreign currency holdings hit almost $569 billion as of July 1, according to the latest data released by the country’s central bank.
    The international funds increased by $2.7 billion, or around 0.5 percent, compared to the previous month. They rose by more than $50 billion since last July."

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