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Thread: Vv and the Constitution

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    Democracy does not slowly and naturally develop out of tyranny and barbarism. It is established suddenly, in a lightning flash of revolution and war, and a struggle for freedom, or not at all.
    Good luck finding actual democracy anywhere except on the very smallest scales...
    What Russia went through was a complete collapse of a system, brought on by the people who went out on the streets demanding a change.
    A democratic system can't be built overnight, will take decades, let's say 3 to 4 generations,only then we will see small steps to democratic values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    Democracy does not slowly and naturally develop out of tyranny and barbarism. It is established suddenly, in a lightning flash of revolution and war, and a struggle for freedom, or not at all.
    Good luck finding actual democracy anywhere except on the very smallest scales...
    what revolution?
    the - orange - revolution on Maidan?
    the revolution in Tbilisi?
    when the French good citizens chopped off the heads of the king and maria Antoinette? And shouted - Liberte,Egalite, Fraternite?
    When Yeltsin stood on top of that tank in front of the White House?
    When the - forefathers - threw the tea into the sea in Boston?
    Is it democracy when i can stand on red Square, shout Putin is a louse and NOT being arrested for it?
    Is it democracy, or freedom of religion and speech when i put a Cross into Urin ,call it -Piss Christ - and a work of art?
    Is it Democracy when some, face, hidden, girls dance in a church call it a -pop prayer - or whatever it was?
    - Mankind - is indeed not made for democracy. Does he need to be ruled with an iron fist? Most probably not. With a stick and carrot? maybe...
    With -Zuckerrot und Peitsche -, equivalent to above english line, just German langauge.
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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    FatAndy (30-12-2019)

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    I think advancing technology requires a different view of "democracy". What prevents one loony loner from working on a biological weapon that could kill millions? The "Right to Privacy", of necessity, will disappear or it has already.
    If you aim for nothing, you will hit it every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedikt View Post
    what revolution?
    the - orange - revolution on Maidan?
    the revolution in Tbilisi?
    when the French good citizens chopped off the heads of the king and maria Antoinette? And shouted - Liberte,Egalite, Fraternite?
    When Yeltsin stood on top of that tank in front of the White House?
    When the - forefathers - threw the tea into the sea in Boston?
    Is it democracy when i can stand on red Square, shout Putin is a louse and NOT being arrested for it?
    Is it democracy, or freedom of religion and speech when i put a Cross into Urin ,call it -Piss Christ - and a work of art?
    Is it Democracy when some, face, hidden, girls dance in a church call it a -pop prayer - or whatever it was?
    - Mankind - is indeed not made for democracy. Does he need to be ruled with an iron fist? Most probably not. With a stick and carrot? maybe...
    With -Zuckerrot und Peitsche -, equivalent to above english line, just German langauge.
    I did not say that revolutions naturally or normally bring about democracy. Only that it is the only way to establish one in an existing nation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge View Post
    What Russia went through was a complete collapse of a system, brought on by the people who went out on the streets demanding a change.
    A democratic system can't be built overnight, will take decades, let's say 3 to 4 generations,only then we will see small steps to democratic values.

    I absolutely don’t believe that for a minute. The tendency is ALWAYS for bad people to rise to the top and seize power and wealth and degradation AWAY from any actual liberty and true democracy. All “evolution” is away from the ideal that the common people actually want. That’s why the change has to be sudden and total.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge View Post
    What Russia went through was a complete collapse of a system, brought on by the people who went out on the streets demanding a change.
    A democratic system can't be built overnight, will take decades, let's say 3 to 4 generations,only then we will see small steps to democratic values.
    Judge, think of the USA now as what the "Golden Calf" worshipers and party people were engaged in, just before Moses came down from the mountain, threw a bolt of lightning into the ground and said "These are YOUR TEN COMMANDMENTS!" (sorry if my biblical facts are off, I am only trying to make an analogy).

    When Moses went up into biblical Mount Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments (Exodus 24:12-18), he left the Israelites for forty days and forty nights. The Israelites feared that he would not return and demanded that Aaron make them "gods" to go before them...

    The West has abandoned (or secular humanism has replaced) traditional morality and the workable ethical framework undergirding a functioning (prosperous and successful) society.

    Exodus 32:1). Aaron gathered up the Israelites' golden earrings and ornaments, constructed a "molten calf" and they declared: "These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt." (Exodus 32:4)

    The rise of Progressive values - morality and ethics have been replaced and eroded by "democratic values" such as "tolerance," "diversity," "inclusion," etc.

    Aaron built an altar before the calf and proclaimed the next day to be a feast to the LORD. So they rose up early the next day and "offered burnt-offerings, and brought peace-offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play."

    Worshiping at the alter of pleasure - literature and films promoting sexual "liberation," the genders themselves undefined, "marriage" (the bedrock of social order) redefined, marijuana and psychedelic drug laws loosened, legalized drugs forced on schoolchildren, the pursuit of money, casinos and lotteries spreading from sea-to-sea, a media idolizing the lawyer, the policeman and the warrior, human beings evaluated as to their "worth" by their physical and social characteristics, not considered as individuals and spiritual beings, the psychiatrist and the sociologist replacing the priest, imam and rabbi, etc.

    Judge, I would say the converse is true. A democratic system is an earthquake and momentary upheaval, but takes decades to erode... Russia survived many decades of Communism and cultural revision.

    The USA is still a great country because it is coasting on what remains of its founding, its construction on a moral framework, NOT because of the cultural erosion by yahoo! meaningless and transitory "values."
    Last edited by TheInterocitor; 30-12-2019 at 19:23.
    If you aim for nothing, you will hit it every time.

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    rusmeister (31-12-2019)

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