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Thread: choosing to build a house on plot of land, Ruza, west of Moscow.

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    choosing to build a house on plot of land, Ruza, west of Moscow.

    Is there anyone interested or has experience in building a house (dacha) on a plot of land in Russia? If so I would like to share your experiences.

    My wife and I have a plot of land (12 sotkas) in Ruza, about 60 Km west of Moscow. We have looked at various options, and it can be quite a task in costing under a budget, as obviously there is more to cost than the cost of the basic structure of the house, such as winter insulation, internal wood cladding. In some case not even the internal doors and may not be in the package price. You have then to consider sewerage for running water, washing machines and toilets, a well for running water, electrical wiring etc, etc, etc. We have a budget of $30,000 and realise their will have further costs over and above the house being built. This is one of the links we are considering as the package is quite good compared to what others are offering, as for example wood thickness as standard for insulation, and will include wood panelling on ceiling, floor and walls as well as tiled appearance roof. Prices can be deceiving where other put all of what I mentioned as extras.

    https://new.homgart.com/catalog/zago...gorodnyy-dom-/

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    My wife and I have a plot of land (12 sotkas) in Ruza, about 60 Km west of Moscow. We have looked at various options, and it can be quite a task in costing under a budget, as obviously there is more to cost than the cost of the basic structure of the house, such as winter insulation, internal wood cladding. In some case not even the internal doors and may not be in the package price. You have then to consider sewerage for running water, washing machines and toilets, a well for running water, electrical wiring etc, etc, etc. We have a budget of $30,000 and realise their will have further costs over and above the house being built. This is one of the links we are considering as the package is quite good compared to what others are offering, as for example wood thickness as standard for insulation, and will include wood panelling on ceiling, floor and walls as well as tiled appearance roof. Prices can be deceiving where other put all of what I mentioned as extras.

    dont forget if you have a -septic tank- needs emptying once a year.
    telephone, Internet, where does it come from.
    is there enough sun to have a photovoltaic installation. for hot water but also electricity. ( rather new in Russia, no subsidies and it needs about 10 or 15 years for amortisation)
    definitely worth to install an extra tank to collect rainwater. even bathroom and,washing machine and all basins water. only toilet to go into septic tank
    in winter who cleans the road of snow? how much to pay, if any?
    very important how many kgr per sqm weight of snow will the roof be able to hold.
    if you have a house you should at least part of it make a cellar or at least a -pogrip-. to store all the jams, pickles, compotes, fruits and vegetables that will accumulate from friends, neighbors and your own.
    how good is your electricity supply. worth to invest in a generator to have in a fix at least some light and the freezer going. and of course the hot water kettle. at least one can prepare - doshirak- noodles...
    check out the KROKUS EXPO website. there is in October i believe an exhibition about building, constructions, houses, dachas and the likes. well worth seeing.
    and definitely well worth to contact the local - hardware - store and building suppliers.. they are around every other corner either were a new suburb goes up. or on the outskirts of every bigger construction site...
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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    Lots of questions. I'll cover some for now and some later. We have no landline and wife has arranged a special contract for internet by a provider in the area. It'll cost 5000 roubles which is more than we pay here in Moscow region. I believe its satellite as there is no cable. I'll be more specific in a few weeks time. There is a local tax to pay for road clearing, garbage etc. It is a village called Nogino (10 km to the city of Plyos, on the banks of river Volga, nice place) The village is located on the banks of a magnificent lake and surrounded by forest. Service isn't great because the road is in very poor condition (plenty of pot holes) and although pressed by the locals they have done nothing for years. We currently have a well, now working just beside our front garden. It can later be utilised to have running using this as source. For storage we have a massive barn attached to the Dacha, it's sinking but we have a surveyor who will advise on raising it and put a floor in it for an extra extension. Storage again, their are special hatches on the floor boards that are raised to store more food such as jams and pickles. Wife is keen on drying produce using Russian stove for mushrooms, tomatoes, fish etc. As for electricity we do have lighting and some basic uses such as heating a hot stove, but we are also using an electrician we know who happens to also live in the area and he will check the electricity and ensure it is good enough for the like of a washing machine, which is a must. Most of our activities will have to take place on first melt next year, and will be going back on 5th September. Yes there are some good hardware store about 6KM away, there is also a special village market I'd like to see. Missed it last last it opens only on certain days in the mornings.

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    From what I understand, most companies subcontract out the actual work. So, the easiest and cheapest way is to choose the cheapest options and then explain what u want to the guys that are a actually going to do the work.

    You buy the materials and have them delivered, they do the installation. But u also have to keep track of materials, since they might over estimate and then sell the excess or replace with cheaper/inferior materials.

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    For sure find out how much it will cost to connect to gas and electricity, if not already there. This can be a big expensive hassle.
    If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough...

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    Our plot of land is co-op owned so no problem with road clearing etc. In regards to gas, no gas, but there is electricity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsimpson View Post
    Our plot of land is co-op owned so no problem with road clearing etc. In regards to gas, no gas, but there is electricity.
    Look into the cost of heated flooring, and what is a must thing to have since you haven't got gas(not just for back up in case of a power cut), get decent fireplace that will work as your main heat source in winter.
    Last edited by Judge; 03-07-2019 at 22:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge View Post
    Look into the cost of heated flooring, and what is a must thing to have since you haven't got gas(not just for back up in case of a power cut), get decent fireplace that will work as your main heat source in winter.
    on all the dachas i have been over the years more or less each and everyone had a wood burning stove in the kitchen. some a big one some a smaller one. but each owner said, one never knows what will happen. but wood will be always available. a sensible comment...
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsimpson View Post
    You are getting confused with two links and two option I gave. One is for a timber frame house and within the package yes there is rockwool insulation, internal doors, wood interior panelling on walls, ceiling and floor. The second option for logs and yes there is a set calculator for different options on the thickness of those logs and whether or not they are pre-machine finished which is the dearest option. Yes, the logs need to settle for a year before continuing the second stage and will have a temporary roof. On adding the attractive traditional lookin tiled roof and with double glazing rather than standard windows the budget price I now realise will be $40,000 perhaps a little more. Of course when you consider bathroom suites, running water, fitted kitchen etc, the budget may well run into $50,000. i suggest you read both sites as they are well written, even if you read it in google translation it is pretty good. Timber-frame: http:////new.homgart.com/catalog/
    Log house: http://teremwood.ru
    I admit I didn't look in detail at the sites, just glanced at them. I thought it was a kleeny brus' (solid engineered / glued wood beams), but I misunderstood.

    I think I now understand what the Homgart approach is like; looks to me like just a modified wood frame, using thick dried wood on the inside instead of drywall. I have some modest doubts about it - mainly whether the walls are sufficiently airsealed inside and adjustments after the fact - drywall can be pretty readily patched and sealed and wouldn't be reliant on the wood being perfectly flat and grooves matching etc. But if really well made wood beams and quality installation, could work fine. Balance that against long-term that more expensive to make modifications, etc. I'd still likelhy prefer this to the log beams approach, personal gut feeling only.

    An additional comment: consider carefully in plan what I think is often a mistake in dachaland, trying to maximise interior space by having no cold attic. Roof construction important, the part of roof between heated space and the exterior roof panels must be cold to work in this climate. In past, attic would be cold, you'd insulate and seal very well the floor of the attic, and make sure there is sufficient airflow to keep the attic cold in winter. It's relatively easy to put extra insualtion in the attic, and also to go around and find/check/fix any gaps in air getting into attic.

    (Note hot air rises and hence heat is mostly lost to attic/roof, hence extra insulation more important here than in walls)

    Try to make the attic a living space, you have to do the same thing within the roof construction - extra insulation, a gap between the roof exterior and the insulation, no mistakes, no way to add extra insulation later (not easily), no easy way to seal up air gaps. If you really want to have that extra living space, make sure the roof is very high quality - don't skimp.

    Also: nice fancy roofs look cool. But keep it as simple as possible, there's a reason country houses typically just had a v-form roof (two pitched sides), with no dormers and skylights and matching wings, etc: it's because that way snowmelt doesn't meet at corners, refreeze and cause ice dams, and water just runs off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge View Post
    Look into the cost of heated flooring, and what is a must thing to have since you haven't got gas(not just for back up in case of a power cut), get decent fireplace that will work as your main heat source in winter.
    Heated flooring can be quite a bit more expensive. If I were to do this, I'd put money into heated floors in the few rooms you spend most time in (kitchen and living room). Everyone does this for bathrooms, personally I don't spend as much time in those. Note: electric heated floors are mainly for tiled areas, not wood (although possible). Since wood generally feels warmer to the touch, that's usually okay. Insulate under the wood (and especially between any cement and the floor).

    Wood heat a great option, but make sure to get one with sealed doors - open fireplaces are worse than useless. Wood stove or a 'topka' (the firebox of a wood stove with the chimney/brick built around it) only. (Or a traditional Russian pechka).

    From some experience with these: everyone wants the nice big glass door, they look great. But for most comfort from a wood stove or closed fireplace, you want as much thermal mass as possible (brick, soapstone, whatever). You run your fires hot, and short (modest sized to not ruin the firebox). Don't do the long smoldering fire thing.

    Brick and the right types of stone absorb the heat and release it slowly. The heating feel comes more from radiant heat instead of heating the air around it. Also this is why better to have chimney or woodstove in centre of room. The Russian pechka were pretty extreme forms of this - you'd fire the stove once or twice a day and it would stay warm for ages; the downside is they are heavy and enormous and the house has to be built for them (structurally). A lot of the benefit can be from a stone-clad wood stove or a topka inside a normal brick chimney.

    In contrast, the pure metal woodstoves mostly are heating up the air and cool down quickly; more severe temperature swings in general, particularly from a comfort perspective.

    Mind, if it won't be a serious source of heat, but just for pleasure fires or occasionally to help on very cold days, not as important.

    One other point: woodfires pollute way more than people think and it does get in the house. Always. Anyone with senstive / sickly lungs - asthmatics -will suffer. Not good for small children.

    And wood really, really needs to be dried properly, well more than a year, or burns awfully (particularly bad for health).

    (I love wood stoves but have sort of gone off them as I've read more about the pollution)

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    Quote Originally Posted by americaninmoscow View Post
    From what I understand, most companies subcontract out the actual work. So, the easiest and cheapest way is to choose the cheapest options and then explain what u want to the guys that are a actually going to do the work.

    You buy the materials and have them delivered, they do the installation. But u also have to keep track of materials, since they might over estimate and then sell the excess or replace with cheaper/inferior materials.
    correct. you never let them buy material themselves. first their friends write out higher cheques and they split the profits. or they charge you - lookalikes- and later when they burst you see that inside was cheap cast iron with a -veneer - of stainless steel instead of stainless steel. the firs -kapremont - we still had to pay our dues. but no more. never buy the cheapest, you do not have enough money for that!and never buy from a friend who has a friend who knows Micha who has everything, does everything and knows everything. while it does not mean anymore - made in Germany- is best quality and - made in China - is crap. you get what you pay for.
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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    Thank you all for your posts, most helpful. In my case I would have a problem with snow clearing or electricity supply as it is co-op land. I will have to put up with mobile telephone internet, Satellite dish etc for internet, most important as our income comes from internet. There will be no land-line as far as I know. Our current intentions is to use a large company who will also carry out the construction. My wife has come up with another as she often does and I must admit I'm sold. A timber log-house, more space, for same budget and solid, no chance of this house falling down from snow on the roof. Worth looking at and the videos are enjoyable to watch.

    https://teremwood.ru/

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    , no chance of this house falling down from snow on the roof. Worth looking at and the videos are enjoyable to watch.


    ask them how many kgs of snow per sqm it will carry? and dont let you being told that all is according to law....the law in EVERY country is like a prostitute. you pay and you get what you pay for...
    find out from a reputable insurance company what will be the premium for insuring a wooden house. will you get a discount for having a pond (always filled with water...). what difference is needed for wiring between a concrete and wood House. and try to get all this in writing and signed by a person who CAN sign.
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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    To paraphrase Benedikt; don't trust anyone you don't have to!!!

    A former employer/mentor taught me, you don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect.
    I have found this to be especially true in Russia.
    Last edited by bydand; 30-06-2019 at 09:13.
    If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough...

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    I was talking about about a solid built Russian log house, as shown in the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsimpson View Post
    Is there anyone interested or has experience in building a house (dacha) on a plot of land in Russia? If so I would like to share your experiences.

    My wife and I have a plot of land (12 sotkas) in Ruza, about 60 Km west of Moscow. We have looked at various options, and it can be quite a task in costing under a budget, as obviously there is more to cost than the cost of the basic structure of the house, such as winter insulation, internal wood cladding. In some case not even the internal doors and may not be in the package price. You have then to consider sewerage for running water, washing machines and toilets, a well for running water, electrical wiring etc, etc, etc. We have a budget of $30,000 and realise their will have further costs over and above the house being built. This is one of the links we are considering as the package is quite good compared to what others are offering, as for example wood thickness as standard for insulation, and will include wood panelling on ceiling, floor and walls as well as tiled appearance roof. Prices can be deceiving where other put all of what I mentioned as extras.
    I once looked at a place near Ruza; nice area.

    To be honest your budget seems tight - depending on what you want. Winterized, to live in full time, etc. You may end up having to do things in stages.

    Depending also how much you want to live there - full time, part time, just weekends, etc. Electric heat does get expensive, but there are ways to deal with that (some examples, heat pumps, which will struggle a bit in cold temperatures, and the equipment isn't free, either). If you get the three-tariff rate, night time electricity is cheap.

    No easy answers on trade-offs. Some of the stuff will just plain cost money, and the tricky part is figuring out what will cost you way more in the long run. If you're going to live in it year round, more insulation is worth the money.

    I don't understand the brick obsession. It's expensive, it's harder to insulate, and it's just as vulnerable to doing a crappy job as any other building tech. Doing renovations/moving walls after is a nightmare. It is harder to burn a brick building to the ground, but then you've got a fire damaged interior and fixtures/plumbing/electrics that are barely reachable and may not be salvageable anyway.

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