once more, again, once more again, Moscow will want us to separate garbage...

[Benedikt]

https://www.rbc.ru/society/18/06/201...from=from_main

and someone will make a bundle to construct new containers again, once more,....
i will be gleefully looking when then every morning ONE big truck is coming and throwing all the trash into ONE truck...
at the moment the -dvorniki- are selecting the garbage already. what THEY can sell for money for themselves. Aluminium cans, metal, cardboard and paper. Next to our garbage containers standing these round things were WE should throw in certain sorts of recyclable plastic. most of the people though are just plain to lazy. they bring their garbage in closed plastic bags, bottles and all, and throw it straight into the containers. the - dvorinki- ope n the of course, go through what they can use. but do not bother to throw recyclables into the separate containers - not our work, we do not get paid for it-. maybe here the municipality could think of something? over the years around here i have seen quite a few efforts to separate the trash. most of it was for the birds... and will be in the near future..

[bydand]

For many years (years ago) I worked for a manufacturer https://www.sssdynamics.com/ that makes equipment to separate things, and installed equipment in many recycling facilities. The only ones that made economic sense involved copper, aluminum, steel, and sometimes paper. All others needed to be government (taxpayer) subsidized municipality efforts.

[Benedikt]

For many years (years ago) I worked for a manufacturer that makes equipment to separate things, and installed equipment in many recycling facilities. The only ones that made economic sense involved aluminum, steel, and sometimes paper. All others needed to be government (taxpayer) subsidized municipality efforts.

i think recycling does make economic sense when one not only thinks about the recycled product per se. how much less energy for instance is being used when melting aluminium cans instead of making new cases. However the biggest problem is the composition of the end product. Aluminium window and door frames are a different alloy. so it makes sense only to collect and melt down door and window frames to make new windows and doors. or that story with these -rare earths - that the Chinese have a monopoly... and it is in miligrams used in more or less all our electronic appliances. so it does also make economic sense, maybe not financially wise, to leave the trash in the country and recycle it here. And not send it to Nigeria or Lagos, where the things are burned to get copper and maybe gold and the rest is thrown god knows where... or how much water and fertilizer is being used to grow cotton and make multi use shopping bags....I think the main thing is to collect waste and recycle it resource full. may that be used tires, cartons or plastic bags. but for that education must beginn in den Kindergarten. And the KIDS must teach their parents, one does not walk by red light over the zebra crossing. and just opening the window and throwing out the trash is not supposed to be done at all. MY generation for sure will not anymore see the results of that...

[bydand]

The problem for sure starts with people and the amount of "trash" we make. To recycle things they must be separated, which many times is labor intensive. A monkey could separate green from brown from clear glass but what if it is all broken and mixed with pieces down to the size of sand? Metals can be re-smelted and alloys adjusted with each melt indefinitely. They save money when recycled.

Plastics (which are harder to distinguish between, besides coming in colors) have a "heat history", they degrade every time they are heated, so can't be recycled indefinitely. Plastic bags became popular in the 80's when environmentalists complained we were cutting down too many trees to make paper bags.... Fact is, there are more trees now in America than 250 years ago, because they fight forest fires, and plant trees to harvest.
Yes, education is sorely needed, along with some attitude changes.
And so it goes...

[Benedikt]

And so it goes...[/QUOTE]

this how it is done in Germany and Austria... and these containers can be found literally on every house corner, park, even at the zoo...
https://www.aliadventures.com/how-to...ge-in-germany/

[Uncle Wally]

And so it goes...

this how it is done in Germany and Austria... and these containers can be found literally on every house corner, park, even at the zoo...
https://www.aliadventures.com/how-to...ge-in-germany/[/QUOTE]



Then it's all thrown together and shipped to Africa. Don't believe any of this bullshit. We need to change our way of life, or we will all die.

[Armoured]

I read and follow info about pyrolysis treatment of most non metal wastes. Basically heat in absence of oxygen, most biological and plastic wastes turn into gas - mainly hydrogen gas - which can be burnt cleanly. Some claim its a miracle, some claim it pollutes like crazy. All agree that if it's done wrong it can be a disaster. Byproduct is carbon char which can be buried safely. The problem I see is I have no faith would be operated properly. I got very skeptical when luzhkov started pushing this.

Note that this is not trash incineration. It needs very high temperatures and oxygen free environment.

[americaninmoscow]

I read and follow info about pyrolysis treatment of most non metal wastes. Basically heat in absence of oxygen, most biological and plastic wastes turn into gas - mainly hydrogen gas - which can be burnt cleanly. Some claim its a miracle, some claim it pollutes like crazy. All agree that if it's done wrong it can be a disaster. Byproduct is carbon char which can be buried safely. The problem I see is I have no faith would be operated properly. I got very skeptical when luzhkov started pushing this.

Note that this is not trash incineration. It needs very high temperatures and oxygen free environment.

That's pretty neat. I've noticed in the us that there are alternative engines that power large machinery. So I've seen hydrogen powered buses, liquid natural gas 18 wheelers and of course, different types/combinations of hybrid electric motors.

It would be really cool if hydrogen gas could be extracted from waste and the carbon char could be used as a water filter or some type of organic farming input.

The circle must be complete!

[americaninmoscow]

99 percent invisible had a great story awhile back on recycling and why it's basically coming to an end in America. Mostly because the biz was to collect stuff and sell it to the Chinese. A domestic Chinese documentary chronicled the life of a little girl whose parents cooked the crap out of garbage to extract whatever could be sold and how poorly they lived, etc. Apparently, it was pretty moving and poof! A new social movement was formed and the recycling biz died.

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/national-sword/

[Armoured]

That's pretty neat. I've noticed in the us that there are alternative engines that power large machinery. So I've seen hydrogen powered buses, liquid natural gas 18 wheelers and of course, different types/combinations of hybrid electric motors.

It would be really cool if hydrogen gas could be extracted from waste and the carbon char could be used as a water filter or some type of organic farming input.

The circle must be complete!

The idea's good but I'm not sure whether it works in practice. Note that a lot of the hydrogen extracted has to be burnt on the spot, and not economically feasible to separate it.

Hydrogen" everyon'es fantasy fuel. But did you know that >95% of hydrogen is just made from heating natural gas in steam (at a great energy and Co2 cost)?

There are some small sources of hydrogen that are clean and renewable. Everything else is bullshit.