littleangels        English Nanny
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Urgent question regarding Russian citizenship application and dual citizenship issue

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    27
    Thanked: 2

    Urgent question regarding Russian citizenship application and dual citizenship issue

    Hello. I have an urgent question for any others that may also have dual citizenship. I got lucky and passed my citizenship exam and have just about completed jumping through all the necessary hoops to get my documents for citizenship in order. The very last step is the application form itself. Here's the problem:

    I have dual UK/US citizenship. I was born in the US, but have lived most of my life in the UK. All of my Russian visas, marriage certificate to my Russian husband and all that I needed for that, plus TRP and permanent residency that I have now is based on my UK passport/citizenship where I was living at the time that I first met my husband and first came to Russia. However, a lady working in the migration office was confused as it looked as if she had never come across this situation previously. So, after fumbling through the paper work, she told us that I must put US citizenship as my first main citizenship and only add UK in a question that asks what documents I have if living in a foreign country. I don't think of UK as a foreign country. I think of it as my main citizenship because I've spent most of my life there and have nothing from the US except for my US passport which I even got from the US embassy in UK and not even on US soil. . I also think that the UK would look at my British citizenship as my main citizenship. I also did my higher study in the UK, not the US. I think it should be very obvious to this lady that I could have only of ever done my documents with my UK passport because I wouldn't have been able to cross the border and leave the UK in the first place without my UK passport as a UK citizen, therefore I needed my very first Russian visa in my UK passport and then onward to all my the documentation to follow over time.

    If all of my documents are based on my UK citizenship, why should I change things now? I don't have a single Russian visa stamp in my US passport...they are all in my UK passport along with TRP stamps and permanent residency (aside from the blue extra Russian passport looking type of document we get with that). I would think that would screw up my documents and then my application would definitely be rejected. The lady said that she didn't know for sure and that the head office would decide. We asked her to please call them and check for us, but she refused. She said they're busy. We think maybe she just doesn't want to look incompetent or can't be bothered. We asked another lady that did our TRP in the past just for some advice and she told us to be careful if we try to call the head office ourselves because we can get the other lady in trouble. It's not fair that this lady could easily pick up the phone and ask for us, so we don't make any errors and get rejected. This is affecting our lives and she can't be bothered....

    I don't know if all the application for citizenship across Russia are the same exactly, but if anyone is familiar with it, my questions are in paragraphs 4 and 5. I believe it's page 2.
    Paragraph 4 - asks about citizenship that I have now or I've had before
    Paragraph 5 - asks about having a valid document showing right to reside in a foreign country

    So, the lady in the migration office thinks that I should put USA in paragraph 4 and UK in paragraph 5. We think the opposite and that UK should be put into paragraph 4 since all my documents are based on my UK citizenship and the fact that it's been my main home. USA should go into paragraph 5 as a foreign state I have the option to reside in since I hold that citizenship having been born there. I would prefer just to say I have dual UK/US citizenship and that's it, however.

    This lady says that my main citizenship is US just because I was born there and that the UK is foreign. That doesn't even make sense because each citizenship you have considers their citizenship should be first priority for you. So, the UK wouldn't consider that my UK citizenship is second class. They consider it my main and most important citizenship as each government would, especially being I spent most of my life there.

    I'm feeling quite stressed not wanting to make an error here....Does anyone else have any advice or experience with this? I would be so grateful for some input.
    Thank you very much for any reply in advance...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    here,since many years
    Posts
    20,024
    Thanked: 4363
    my reply might be only an educated guess...WHERE were you born? you say the USA. you should have a birth certificate? and would that not be your country of citizen ship? and does that birth certificate not give you the right to live in the USA?
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

  3. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Benedikt For This Useful Post:

    seagirl333 (30-05-2019), tasel (23-05-2019), Uncle Wally (23-05-2019)

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    12,805
    Thanked: 3667
    I agree with Ben, US because you were born there. Nobody cares about the way you feel, just the facts.
    If you trust the government you obviously failed history class. " George Carlin"

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Uncle Wally For This Useful Post:

    Benedikt (01-06-2019), seagirl333 (30-05-2019)

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    600
    Thanked: 415
    I applied for and got RU citizenship. My application was accepted on the fourth try. Others I talked to applying for citizenship had to try several times as well. You might succeed on the first attempt though. It happens!

    Each inspector wrote down the changes they wanted on the application. Some of these instructions were contradictory. After each try, I changed the application as per the instructions from the inspectors. On my last and successful attempt, I pulled out the first three applications and showed where I was given different kinds of advice. I also managed to get the name and phone number of a supervisor who made a final decision and accepted the application.

    These inspectors are fond of sending applicants off on a wild goose chase. Finding someone in the Migration Service who will answer your question about whether to show UK or US citizenship is probably one of them.

    If I were making the application, I'd follow the advice of the person who said to use the citizenship of the country where you were born. Then, when you apply, if you are asked by the inspector why you show US citizenship in the application, say you were instructed to show it. You might be asked to change it. Then, you re-apply.

    As a rule, if your application is accepted by the inspector, you'll be issued citizenship.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to xt-tsi For This Useful Post:

    seagirl333 (30-05-2019)

  8. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    2,137
    Thanked: 29
    I did my process and almost my document was accepted at the first try but then I changed my mind and now still satying on visa and I am happy with that.

  9. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    27
    Thanked: 2
    Hello Bendikt and Uncle Wally...Thank you for your replies....

    I was born in the US, but I'm both a UK and US dual citizen. Regardless, of birth....someone could be born in the US and have given up US citizenship like an increasing number of people due to FATCA and other reasons. Also, people from any country can give up their birth citizenship. So, it shouldn't really just go only by birth, but by present citizenship, too, I would think. I have however, held on to both.

    Xt-tsi.....It sounds like you really were sent on a wild goose chase after 4 tries! How long did you have to wait each time to find out that each application was wrong (due to their contradictions) and had to be resubmitted? Someone gave me the impression that we could have to wait up to 5 months (out of the required 6 months normal processing wait) and then have papers sent back saying there are errors and everything has to be resubmitted. I hope not because I'm getting ready to fly away home for a few months. It's a very good thing you were able to finally speak to a supervisor and it got things moving for you!

    My husband finally managed to get through to one of the people in the head office where my documents will be sent. He found out that the lady in the local migration office didn't tell us correctly. In fact, the "head office" told us something quite different. They said that I should write both my UK and US citizenships for Paragraph A on what citizenships I have or have had before which is where the local migration lady worker told me to only put in only my US citizenship due to my being born there and her thinking that should be my main citizenship. For Paragraph 5 which asks about what document I have to prove I am able to reside in a foreign country....the lady in the head office surprised us with saying to write the US there. She reasoned that since I've made my life in the UK and have nothing going on in the US, that the US is more like a foreign country for me now. She did add that they aren't monsters (in the head office) and that as long as I'm honest and showing everything that even if there's a tiny error in the order written, everything should be understood. I sure hope so. I guess, it might also depend on which worker in the head office receives my documents.

    The lady working a the local migration office which will send the documents to the head office made some other errors and contradicted herself. The head office told us that she's competent, but maybe confused as it's a new situation for her....or maybe part of the wild goose chase you spoke of...

    Well, hoping for the best...and as you say...maybe...just maybe we can get through the first time. However, you've given me a wider perspective that it may be somewhat normal to have to redo the documents.

    Thank you very much, Xt-tsi for sharing your experience....I've sent you a PM....Thank you, again...

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to seagirl333 For This Useful Post:

    Benedikt (01-06-2019)

  11. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    600
    Thanked: 415
    Are you applying in Moscow? Or somewhere else in Russia?

    I applied several times but my final application was only accepted once. I was able to re-apply immediately. Others I spoke to making applications for citizenship assumed that once the application is accepted, citizenship will be granted. The Migration authorities said the same thing.

    As a rule, I followed the advice of each inspector from the migration office to whom I submitted the application. If it were my application and the person accepting my document tells me I should show both citizenships, I would do it.

    I hope this helps.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to xt-tsi For This Useful Post:

    seagirl333 (18-06-2019)

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    600
    Thanked: 415
    I would add one more thing. Russian regulations show a list of documents required to apply for citizenship. Any docs requested by anyone in addition to the list don't need to be submitted.

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    27
    Thanked: 2
    Hello Xt-tsi,

    My apologies for the delay in my return to the forum. No, I'm not in Moscow. I'm applying from outside Kazan.

    Okay....so you were able to re-apply immediately...So, you mean if there was any mistake they just handed the paperwork back to you (while at the local migration office) and asked you for something else before it was sent off to any head office? Or it was sent to the head office, but then sent back to you quickly to fix (as opposed to waiting for months)? They would not send it off for me to any other place until all my ducks were in a row. First all paperwork had to be approved by the local migration officer, then the police and others needed to sign everything off and only then would the paperwork be sent to the main office 3 hours away in Kazan for processing which I was told would take 6 months. I had thought you had to wait up to 6 months each time there was an error with your paperwork. Thank goodness not! That would have been a hefty stress load.

    Here's another "fun thing" that the local migration officer came out with just as we finally had all the paperwork prepared and ready to be sent. She called my husband and told us that she thought that I'm not supposed to be using an English language signature. Can you imagine? After all the documents I've done over the years using my normal signature for my TRP and permanent residency not to mention visas and everything else, why in the world would she suddenly insist that I begin to use a Russian language signature? That would really make a mess of my documents. A signature in Russian would not match the signature in my passports. We called again to the head office and they told us that indeed I can use my own native English language signature as anybody can put down anything as their signature. You can't read many signatures anyway. It can be chicken scratch. The local migration officer also called them to confirm this. However, first she had to scare us by calling us to tell us that my signatures were wrong before checking for herself.

  15. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    27
    Thanked: 2
    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post
    I would add one more thing. Russian regulations show a list of documents required to apply for citizenship. Any docs requested by anyone in addition to the list don't need to be submitted.
    Okay....understood...There was a lady that fills in the application form for you that you are required to pay. We had at first been told to go to her. She tried to insist that I need to show educational documents. We ended up just filling in the forms ourself as she was in a mood and busy that day, so refused to fill out our documents. She said to come back another day, but my husband had to work. So, we just did the application form ourself. The migration officer never asked us for the educational certificates that this other lady insisted on. Some people have said that they ask for a birth certificate and some say no. I was asked for this document, although both my passports indicate clearly where I was born.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •