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Thread: Boeing 737 MAX 8 - an underlying theme to the whole saga

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    Boeing 737 MAX 8 - an underlying theme to the whole saga

    So two of this new plane type, the Boeing 737 MAX 8, have crashed recently. Lion Air was in Indonesia and Ethiopian airlines in Ehiopia. The response of the US government really tells the story of how corporations, and their money, control the government to the detriment of the average Joe. It's just another example of the countless available. The FAA(Federal aviation Authority) should have banned it immediately, but instead they are just Boeing shareholder lapdogs.

    The technical details as I understand it are as follows.
    The 737 series, with their various modifications over the last 50 years were a safe proven designed passenger aircraft. However, all changed with the MAX series. They wanted to put a fundamentally different engine onto the 737, the new engine was much more powerful and fuel efficient. However the engine had a much bigger diameter and is also heavier. So that it wouldn't scrape the ground every time they landed on a windy day, they needed to mount the engine more forward than the current engines. This changed the flight characteristics substantially, the physics of how the plane would fly and behave. It introduced a possible situation where the plane could be pointed too high and would stall(and then crash), where the pilot would not be able to control the aircraft. So, Boeing added this MCAS system, if it detected these scenarios it would essentially take over and do the required flight controls to prevent the plane possibly stalling. The majority of pilots not being skilful enough to control the aircraft in such situations alone.
    One source of technical information is on this video, at the point of about 11 minutes into video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJwUk5HH4KI

    Computer controlled anything? Well, you do see a few people killed by these driverless cars that google etc have put on the roads - how was that ever approved when even an oxymoron will know this is a dumb idea.
    There have even been some robotic assisted operations and of course a few people have died(The surgeon was not the one holding the knife, but a robot)

    So, you have a plane design that can not be flown safely by the pilots alone.
    The computer automation will never be perfect most people would agree.
    The plane cannot be flown safe manually, cannot be flown safe automated and so, the plane design is inherently UNSAFE.

    For the plane to be safe, it must be flown manually and hence the engine must be mounted further back on the plane. But the fuel efficient and more powerful engine won't fit there.

    Boeing have 350 of these aircraft in service, and making 50 per month on an order book of 4500 when the type approval should be cancelled. I imagine Airbus and other companies have better alternatives in this fuel efficient category. It would take many years to redesign a plane. Surely the stock market advice on Boeing shares should be SELL.

    So, enters Dotard(Trump), trying to control the media narrative to the aid of Boeing shareholders and "American branding" in the world. The general statement that planes are getting too complicated, rather than american companies will do anything for a $$$ or two. The Boeing management put profits above making safe aircraft. FAA just lapdogs of the 1%. Safety is nothing and profits are everything. It seems always the case that African and other third world countries have the crashes on these planes, or the battery fires on the 787 dream liner that were also in Africa. I guess the lawsuits are smaller than if the aircraft would crash in america.
    Last edited by rumple_stilskin; 14-03-2019 at 12:30.

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    can you imagine if these were Airbus planes. or, God forbid, Russian Tupolevs?
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedikt View Post
    can you imagine if these were Airbus planes. or, God forbid, Russian Tupolevs?
    the FAA would be quick to ground them....

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    Quote Originally Posted by rumple_stilskin View Post
    They wanted to put a fundamentally different engine onto the 737, the new engine was much more powerful and fuel efficient.
    I read somewhere, and your summary is similar, that the new engine to be more fuel efficient had to be much bigger (diameter).

    Any simple description of how this works, physics-wise?

    I generally think of motors and engines getting smaller over time / with efficiency, it seems like it's some characteristic of turbofan engines.

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    maybe it is time to let a PILOT fly the plane and not the computer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armoured View Post
    I read somewhere, and your summary is similar, that the new engine to be more fuel efficient had to be much bigger (diameter).

    Any simple description of how this works, physics-wise?

    I generally think of motors and engines getting smaller over time / with efficiency, it seems like it's some characteristic of turbofan engines.
    Not 100% sure, but I would explain that for a given amount of air volume, the larger it's passageway, the slower it goes. This could allow the fuel mixture to burn more completely/efficiently. An analogy could be made with an internal combustion engine and differing efficiency at different RPM. There's a sweet spot.
    If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough...

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    The main problem with the engine is that because it was bigger it had to be moved forward under the plane's wing to keep it from hitting the ground on landing. This made the plane handle differently.
    If you trust the government you obviously failed history class. " George Carlin"

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    Anybody know what's this thing? I got it at the auction today...

    IMG_4300a.JPG
    The Snowflakes are even Stupider than We Were!

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    .........................




    .........................
    The Snowflakes are even Stupider than We Were!

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    You thought it was a Nazi passport, yes?

    No, it's a circa 1980 pilot's "computer" to help in computing ground air speed, wind correction, etc.

    IMG_4302a.JPG

    IMG_4325a.JPG

    but it was a step forward over the previous calculating method, a circular slide rule. (Got one of these at the auction today, too, but it needs a little repair). While you're waiting to land, the co-pilot is working one of these maybe....

    IMG_4328a.JPG

    IMG_4326a.JPG
    The Snowflakes are even Stupider than We Were!

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