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Thread: Residence Permit Renewal

  1. #46
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    I went to Arbat Multifunctional Centre (Мои документы) yesterday to get a new registration as I prolonged my PRP at the end of last year. You don't need to get a new registration stamp within 7 days of receiving your prolonged PRP assuming the registration in your PRP is still valid. Mine was, so I left it until after New Year. Although I really like the Multifunctional Centres as they have made things much easier (in my region at least), yesterday was a bit of a trial. The person on reception insisted I go to the MVD migration people and would not give me a talon for anyone else, despite the fact I told her I needed to get the apartment documents done first. My (Russian) husband was with me but was as much use as a chocolate teapot and said "oh, she's probably right". So we queued to see the MVD person and then got sent back for another talon to get the apartments docs done first. I made my husband ask for it this time We got all of the documents done and went off to the MVD person again and there were documents missing so we had to go back to the apartment registration people again. It was a bit of a pain, but the MVD person was actually the most helpful of the lot, really friendly and patient. I got the feeling with the reception staff that they don't deal with many foreigners and automatically send them to the MVD, which is logical I guess.

    Anyway, now that slight moan is over, here's what you need to do (assuming all of this is done at your local Multifunctional Centre, I know in some regions it's different):

    1. Get a talon for the people who handle registration/propiska/domovaya kniga. It is NOT the MVD, whatever the reception staff tell you. It's the same people who register Russian citizens in an apartment.
    2. If your old registration still has time left on it (like mine), ask them to de-register you (cancel your existing registration) and then to re-register you with the new dates. You need to give them your PRP so that they can fill in the information on the database and the apartment owner has to give them the ownership document (Svidetelstvo o sobstvennosti). You end up with (a) a form asking to be deregistered which you need to fill in and sign; (b) a form asking them to re-register you, which the apartment owner has to fill in and sign; (c) a copy of the page of the domovaya kniga, which lists everyone registered at that address; (d) another form with all of your PRP details which is already filled in and which you just have to sign; (e) the MVD asked us to also get Form 9, which is the original of the domovaya king, as far as I could work out.
    3. If your old registration has just expired or is about to you don't need to ask them to de-register you, but you still need all of the other documents at 2 above.
    4. Pay 350 roubles at the machine. You will find a button for MVD/migration payments, then just follow the menu. The machine adds on 40 rubles for "consultation" (I wasn't sure with whom) and doesn't give change (although you can print out a form to get a refund of the amount of change), so in the end this cost me 400 roubles.
    5. Get another talon, this time for the MVD, and give the officer all of the documents at 2 above, your PRP, the apartment owner's internal passport and the ownership document.
    6. I ended up with two new stamps in my PRP, one de-registering me (cancelling my existing registration) and one re-registering me to the end of my prolonged PRP.

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RooRu View Post
    I went to Arbat Multifunctional Centre (Мои документы) yesterday to get a new registration as I prolonged my PRP at the end of last year. You don't need to get a new registration stamp within 7 days of receiving your prolonged PRP assuming the registration in your PRP is still valid. Mine was, so I left it until after New Year. Although I really like the Multifunctional Centres as they have made things much easier (in my region at least), yesterday was a bit of a trial. The person on reception insisted I go to the MVD migration people and would not give me a talon for anyone else, despite the fact I told her I needed to get the apartment documents done first. My (Russian) husband was with me but was as much use as a chocolate teapot and said "oh, she's probably right". So we queued to see the MVD person and then got sent back for another talon to get the apartments docs done first. I made my husband ask for it this time We got all of the documents done and went off to the MVD person again and there were documents missing so we had to go back to the apartment registration people again. It was a bit of a pain, but the MVD person was actually the most helpful of the lot, really friendly and patient. I got the feeling with the reception staff that they don't deal with many foreigners and automatically send them to the MVD, which is logical I guess.

    Anyway, now that slight moan is over, here's what you need to do (assuming all of this is done at your local Multifunctional Centre, I know in some regions it's different):

    1. Get a talon for the people who handle registration/propiska/domovaya kniga. It is NOT the MVD, whatever the reception staff tell you. It's the same people who register Russian citizens in an apartment.
    2. If your old registration still has time left on it (like mine), ask them to de-register you (cancel your existing registration) and then to re-register you with the new dates. You need to give them your PRP so that they can fill in the information on the database and the apartment owner has to give them the ownership document (Svidetelstvo o sobstvennosti). You end up with (a) a form asking to be deregistered which you need to fill in and sign; (b) a form asking them to re-register you, which the apartment owner has to fill in and sign; (c) a copy of the page of the domovaya kniga, which lists everyone registered at that address; (d) another form with all of your PRP details which is already filled in and which you just have to sign; (e) the MVD asked us to also get Form 9, which is the original of the domovaya king, as far as I could work out.
    3. If your old registration has just expired or is about to you don't need to ask them to de-register you, but you still need all of the other documents at 2 above.
    4. Pay 350 roubles at the machine. You will find a button for MVD/migration payments, then just follow the menu. The machine adds on 40 rubles for "consultation" (I wasn't sure with whom) and doesn't give change (although you can print out a form to get a refund of the amount of change), so in the end this cost me 400 roubles.
    5. Get another talon, this time for the MVD, and give the officer all of the documents at 2 above, your PRP, the apartment owner's internal passport and the ownership document.
    6. I ended up with two new stamps in my PRP, one de-registering me (cancelling my existing registration) and one re-registering me to the end of my prolonged PRP.

    They are correct, you have to do this at the ''MVD migration people'', usually they also sit inside the same building as Мои документы... Reason why, because we are foreigners and it's to do with migration..... I did the same as you and was told so.

    Even the yearly check needs to be done by MVD, it would be easier if we could do all through the kind people at Мои документы

  4. #48
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    At Arbat they're all in the same building, thank goodness, so at least I was only shuttling between two desks yesterday. Everything's much easier in my region since the migration people moved out of the police station and into the Multifunctional Centre.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RooRu View Post
    At Arbat they're all in the same building, thank goodness, so at least I was only shuttling between two desks yesterday. Everything's much easier in my region since the migration people moved out of the police station and into the Multifunctional Centre.


    lucky you in Arbat. you have them all in one building! and that explains it all. so while you are at the - moi Dokumente- it is still the MOD who does the papers. her in Strogino they are not so far yet. But there are good nows. a chairpusher and stamp pad protector who gave hell to ALL AND SUNDRY, he did not like his work, the job .the people, whatever and whatelese, is gone. and in his palce there is a pleasant young man who knows what he is doing, what is required, what is not needed. and definitely what is not needed just for being difficult...
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

  6. #50
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    Dear all,

    Please, those who have experiences please help to answer the question:

    A foreigner with a PRP plans to extend (renew) the residence permit a second time, having lived in the Russian Federation for 5 years for the first term of a residence permit, and then about 5 years after its renewal. Earlier, at the first extension, the foreigner submitted a certificate of passing a test on Russian language, history and law. According to clause 42.5 of the Regulations (MVD’s “Reglament”), when extending a residence permit, a certificate of passing a comprehensive exam on the idea should be provided only if it was not previously provided:

    Annex to the order of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia
    dated 09.11.2017 N 846
    ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATIONS (“Reglament”)
    MINISTRY OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
    FOR THE PROVISION OF PUBLIC SERVICE FOR THE DISTRIBUTION
    FOREIGN CITIZENS AND PERSONS WITHOUT CITIZENSHIP
    RESIDENCE IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
    42. To extend the term of a residence permit, the applicant submits:
    42.5. A document confirming the possession of this foreign citizen by the Russian language, knowledge of the history of Russia and the fundamentals of the legislation of the Russian Federation, IF THIS DOCUMENT WAS NOT PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED to obtain a residence permit.

    Here is the extract from the MVD’s Reglament in original Russian language:
    Приложение
    к приказу МВД России
    от 09.11.2017 N 846
    АДМИНИСТРАТИВНЫЙ РЕГЛАМЕНТ
    МИНИСТЕРСТВА ВНУТРЕННИХ ДЕЛ РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ
    ПО ПРЕДОСТАВЛЕНИЮ ГОСУДАРСТВЕННОЙ УСЛУГИ ПО ВЫДАЧЕ
    ИНОСТРАННЫМ ГРАЖДАНАМ И ЛИЦАМ БЕЗ ГРАЖДАНСТВА ВИДА
    НА ЖИТЕЛЬСТВО В РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ
    42. Для продления срока действия вида на жительство заявитель подает:
    42.5. Документ, подтверждающий владение данным иностранным гражданином русским языком, знание истории России и основ законодательства Российской Федерации, ЕСЛИ ДАННЫЙ ДОКУМЕНТ РАНЕЕ НЕ ПРЕДОСТАВЛЯЛСЯ для получения вида на жительство.

    Thus, according to the letter of the law, they do not seem to have the right to require re-provision of the Certificate.
    Please tell me, in practice, do Sakharovo’s inspectors require, when extending a residence permit for the second time, from those foreigners who have already extended the residence permit once and have previously provided a certificate of passing the test, once again passing the comprehensive exam and providing another new certificate or not?
    Thanks

  7. #51
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    The law that you have quoted states that you do not need to show the certificate if you already showed it to OBTAIN the permit. The bit of law that you need to wave about if you showed when you RENEWED it is the following:

    30.5. Документ, подтверждающий владение данным иностранным гражданином русским языком, знание истории России и основ законодательства Российской Федерации <1>.
    — <1> В соответствии со статьей 37.1 Федерального закона предоставляется однократно иностранными гражданами, получившими вид на жительство до 1 января 2015 года. Указанный документ не предоставляется, если заявление подается в отношении иностранных граждан, не достигших возраста 18 лет, либо недееспособных или ограниченных в дееспособности иностранных граждан, не достигших возраста 18 лет, а также заявителями — мужчинами, достигшими возраста шестидесяти пяти лет, и женщинами, достигшими возраста шестидесяти лет, участниками Государственной программы и членами семьи, высококвалифицированными специалистами и членами их семьи.

    Подробнее на Правовед.ru: https://pravoved.ru/question/1223594/
    Last edited by kanga; 14-03-2019 at 19:03.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanga View Post
    The law that you have quoted states that you do not need to show the certificate if you already showed it to OBTAIN the permit. The bit of law that you need to wave about if you showed when you RENEWED it is the following:

    30.5. Документ, подтверждающий владение данным иностранным гражданином русским языком, знание истории России и основ законодательства Российской Федерации <1>.
    — <1> В соответствии со статьей 37.1 Федерального закона предоставляется однократно иностранными гражданами, получившими вид на жительство до 1 января 2015 года. Указанный документ не предоставляется, если заявление подается в отношении иностранных граждан, не достигших возраста 18 лет, либо недееспособных или ограниченных в дееспособности иностранных граждан, не достигших возраста 18 лет, а также заявителями — мужчинами, достигшими возраста шестидесяти пяти лет, и женщинами, достигшими возраста шестидесяти лет, участниками Государственной программы и членами семьи, высококвалифицированными специалистами и членами их семьи.

    Подробнее на Правовед.ru: https://pravoved.ru/question/1223594/
    Thank you. But I think it is still not clear 100% because: 1) this is just an opinion of one consultant from pravoved and not the opinion of inspectors from Sakharovo; 2) the certificate has validity term written on it - 5 years which can be treated as a kind of legal graund by the isnpectors to request new updated certificate because the old one has expired; 3) the burocrasy in general may likes to make the life of foreigners more complicated and to push them to pay extra money to the budget for the obtaining of new certificate. Thus, I think that there are high risks that they may require the certificate again... Does anyone one has real experience from Sakharovo on this matter?

  9. #53
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    That is not just an opinion, but the actual law quoted, which states that you only need to show it one time. However, I agree with you, however, because as we all know what the law states doesn't really mean anything and they can and do ask for lots of extra documents (for example, in practice people with Permanent Residency when doing their yearly uvedomleniye need to provide printed documents to prove their income, when the law states they do not.)
    Nonetheless, the law does state you only need to show it one time - "предоставляется однократно" - and even by MVD's own inconsistent standards it would be pretty unfair for those who showed it to receive residency after 2015 to never have to show it again while those who showed it to renew residency to have to forever pay for and re-sit the test every time they renewed.
    Of course, what really counts is how it works in practice and unfortunately I have yet to find out.
    Please let us know what your experience with the process turns out to be, thanks.

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  11. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanga View Post
    That is not just an opinion, but the actual law quoted, which states that you only need to show it one time. .
    Unfortunately, this law quoted (old Reglament approved by FMS) is not valid anymore.

    Now there is a new more strict law (new Reglament approved by MVD) which has another different wording without mentioning "one time",

    Приложение
    к приказу МВД России
    от 09.11.2017 N 846
    АДМИНИСТРАТИВНЫЙ РЕГЛАМЕНТ
    МИНИСТЕРСТВА ВНУТРЕННИХ ДЕЛ РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ
    ПО ПРЕДОСТАВЛЕНИЮ ГОСУДАРСТВЕННОЙ УСЛУГИ ПО ВЫДАЧЕ
    ИНОСТРАННЫМ ГРАЖДАНАМ И ЛИЦАМ БЕЗ ГРАЖДАНСТВА ВИДА
    НА ЖИТЕЛЬСТВО В РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ
    42. Для продления срока действия вида на жительство заявитель подает:
    42.1. Заявление о продлении (приложение N 4 к Административному регламенту) в одном экземпляре.
    42.2. Документ, удостоверяющий личность.
    42.3. Вид на жительство.
    42.4. Фотографии, соответствующие требованиям, установленным подпунктом 28.2 пункта 28 Административного регламента, в том числе фотографии детей, вписанных в вид на жительство (при продлении вида на жительство путем оформления нового вида на жительство в связи с отсутствием свободных страниц для внесения записи о продлении).
    42.5. Документ, подтверждающий владение данным иностранным гражданином русским языком, знание истории России и основ законодательства Российской Федерации, если данный документ ранее не представлялся для получения вида на жительство.
    Указанный документ не представляется, если заявление подается в отношении иностранных граждан, не достигших восемнадцатилетнего возраста, либо недееспособных или ограниченных в дееспособности иностранных граждан, а также заявителями: мужчинами, достигшими возраста шестидесяти пяти лет, женщинами, достигшими возраста шестидесяти лет, участниками Государственной программы и членами их семей, иностранными гражданами, являющимися гражданами Союзного государства, образованного Российской Федерацией и Республикой Беларусь, высококвалифицированными специалистами и членами их семьи.


    Also please read carefully article 37.1 of the Law which does not expressly say that it is enough to submit the certificate only once when applying for extension of PRP:

    25 июля 2002 года N 115-ФЗ

    РОССИЙСКАЯ ФЕДЕРАЦИЯ


    ФЕДЕРАЛЬНЫЙ ЗАКОН


    О ПРАВОВОМ ПОЛОЖЕНИИ ИНОСТРАННЫХ ГРАЖДАН
    В РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ

    Статья 37.1. Особенности подтверждения владения русским языком, знания истории России и основ законодательства Российской Федерации отдельными категориями иностранных граждан
    (введена Федеральным законом от 20.04.2014 N 74-ФЗ)
    Иностранные граждане, которым вид на жительство или разрешение на работу были выданы до 1 января 2015 года, представляют документ, подтверждающий владение данными иностранными гражданами русским языком, знание ими истории России и основ законодательства Российской Федерации, при подаче заявления о продлении срока действия ранее выданного вида на жительство или разрешения на работу.

    I think that in this case the inspectors may require from those who have theire PRP erlier than 1 January, 2015 to submit new certificate each time again and again when applying for PRP's renewal, although it looks really unfair and asurd in comparison with those who got PRP after 1 January, 2015...

  12. #55
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    I think you're worrying about this unnecessarily. While there is a potential loophole, I think it's an issue of poor wording in the law rather than deliberate intent. Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but I would be surprised if it was the latter. Unless someone has actually been through the process of renewing for the second time since the exam came in, which won't be many people here as the exam was introduced on 1 January 2015, so those who renewed PRP in 2014 without the certificate will only be renewing again this year, you will just have to go to Sakharovo and see what happens. I'm pretty sure they will not demand another certificate.

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    The original text I provided was an amendment which was added so people wouldn't have to repeatedly re-sit the exam. But the more recent version that you have provided seems to have reverted back to something more resembling the original text "если данный документ ранее не представлялся для получения вида на жительство". I guess it will depend on how strict they are about the difference between "получения" and "продление". We could well end up while having to pay and re-sit he exam every time while those who received after 2015 will not. If you are up for renewal soon please do let us know what you find out. I already showed the certificate once when I renewed and am not due to renew again for a couple of years yet, but I would like to know all the same.

  14. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanga View Post
    The original text I provided was an amendment which was added so people wouldn't have to repeatedly re-sit the exam. But the more recent version that you have provided seems to have reverted back to something more resembling the original text "если данный документ ранее не представлялся для получения вида на жительство". I guess it will depend on how strict they are about the difference between "получения" and "продление". We could well end up while having to pay and re-sit he exam every time while those who received after 2015 will not. If you are up for renewal soon please do let us know what you find out. I already showed the certificate once when I renewed and am not due to renew again for a couple of years yet, but I would like to know all the same.
    I think that there may be high risks that they may request the second certificate, especially from thos who have PRP issued before 1 January, 2015 with chances 50-50%. My renewal is planned for the next year, but I have decided to start worying now. If anyone has any recent experience, news and and answers from Sakharovo on this matter, please let us know. Thanks

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    So, I'll be headed out to Sakhorovo for the first time next week to extend my PRP. I had a few more questions:
    1. Are you allowed to take a backpack in with you? (Nothing large, but some food and documents)
    2. Can you bring your phone inside the facilities? If not, is there somewhere to leave it?
    3. Does anyone recommend paying the consultation fee for help writing the renewal application for PRP? (Oddly enough, I have a friend who recommended doing so so that fewer trips are taken to Sakharovo?
    4. Does everyone still not recommend the taxis there and back? (I'd like to save some time!)
    5. Can I pay for the service there before going to the window to be served? (I don't want to be called up and then to sheepishly explain that I haven't paid yet.

    I've got all my documents (as far as I know). Ready for a new fight with bureaucracy! Too bad I am going to mis the deadline for the perpetual PRP. I love this as about as much as slamming my finger in the door!
    Last edited by silentNight; 14-06-2019 at 22:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentNight View Post
    So, I'll be headed out to Sakhorovo for the first time next week to extend my PRP. I had a few more questions:
    1. Are you allowed to take a backpack in with you? (Nothing large, but some food and documents)
    2. Can you bring your phone inside the facilities? If not, is there somewhere to leave it?
    3. Does anyone recommend paying the consultation fee for help writing the renewal application for PRP? (Oddly enough, I have a friend who recommended doing so so that fewer trips are taken to Sakharovo?
    4. Does everyone still not recommend the taxis there and back? (I'd like to save some time!)
    5. Can I pay for the service there before going to the window to be served? (I don't want to be called up and then to sheepishly explain that I haven't paid yet.

    I've got all my documents (as far as I know). Ready for a new fight with bureaucracy! Too bad I am going to mis the deadline for the perpetual PRP. I love this as about as much as slamming my finger in the door!
    1. Yes.
    2. Yes.
    3. I did it myself. Someone on here wrote that even if you do the consultation, they don't guarantee that your form will be accepted, but I don't know that from experience. I didn't manage to submit immediately, but this was more because I had paid to the wrong account and also my annual уведомление hadn't been input into the database by the MVD in my region. The person at the desk made some amendments to my form in pencil and I incorporated these when I went back and submitted (at the second attempt). In my experience it was much less stressful than submitting forms at Polyanka, where every single inspector changed what the previous one had written and it took me at least 4 visits to submit.
    4. I took the bus from the metro, based on people here saying that taxis were dodgy/unroadworthy/badly driven (they're mostly unofficial, from what I could see) and prone to begin stopped by the police. It was actually fine, although packed and I stood there and back.
    5. You have to pay before you get to the window. You can do that at Sakharovo. I did it near home. The correct bank details are somewhere further up this thread.

    Good luck.

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    Thanked: 3
    Thanks for the help. I have injured my foot and it's not easy standing up for hours at a time. I will have to weigh my options or try to take the bus early in the morning and hope there won't be boatloads of people.

    A few more questions I remembered.
    No one mentioned needing a passport-sized picture. Do they take it there now?
    How long was your ACTUAL wait before your document was ready? I ask because when I got my PRP it took them something like 8 months to get it to me, despite the law saying that it must be issued within 6 months. (When they got it to me at 8 months, it was backdated two months earlier.)

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