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Thread: Pension - turned down!

  1. #1
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    Pension - turned down!

    I applied for my pension but was turned down. The refusal letter I received said that I paid social taxes as an employee for 6.7 years but needed to pay into the system for 7 years. Missed it by a few months. Without being approved as a pensioner I don't get the social card, allowing me to use public transport for free and giving me the 5% food discount.

    At this stage I can ask how these dates were calculated and after that, I can challenge the refusal in court. However, I'm not sure it's worth the effort. There is apparently a complex way points are calculated to qualify as a pensioner, known to bureaucrats and lawyers but unknown to me. By the time I get an answer, another 18 months will pass by which time I will turn 65. At that age everyone qualifies for a pension and as a Muscovite, it is a bit higher (unless they change the rules). It will pay for gas with perhaps a bit left over for a bottle of win.

  2. #2
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    A friend of mine, 74 y.o., was recently turned down. He has been living here with his Russian wife since 1997 - the first 10 years on business visas renewed annually, and for the last 10 years on a PRP. He was registered at her apartment the whole time.

    The reason given for the denial was that he failed to prove that he was physically present in Russia for at least 15 years, and that the continuous visas, PRP, and 20 years of being registered at his wife's apartment were not adequate proof of physical presence for the required 15 years. He then presented them with copies of all the pages of his current and previous passports, with all of the stamps in and out, and a spreadsheet where he listed all of his trips in and out - showing he was physically absent less than 2 years out of 20. They said his spreadsheet wasn't proof ("not a document"), and that they themselves were not going to go through all the stamps in his passports and make calculations. Then they suggested that he return for reconsideration after he has had his PRP for more than 15 years.

  3. #3
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    I sat in the Pension Fund office three times for about an hour each session. While there I read all the ways that an application for a pension can be turned down. There are quite a few. I remember one that says an application for a pension can be refused if the work book is not properly filled out and stamped. I also spoke with a lawyer who said the applicant must provide the burden of proof if making some kind of a claim, not the pension fund authorities.

    Clearly the authorities want to make it as difficult as they can to get a pension from the social funds and push the retirement age back to 65 in as many cases as they can.

    Also, while in the pension fund office, I heard people complaining that their applications for pensions had been turned down. Mostly aged Russians fighting for an extra 1000 Rubles a month. Also, a pensioner can also have free or partially free access to various Soviet era care facilities (дом отдыха). Apparently applying for these trips (путевки) is an elaborate process and things often go wrong. Gives the pensioners something to do.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by xp@ View Post
    "not a document"
    That is an argument I had heard a few times even when the paper was a real official paper (just a plain A4 80g paper sheet, no letter head, no nice decoration, just plain paper) printer out by authority in my native country with stamp and signature, and Appostille stamp on too, A real document must LOOK LIKE an official Russian document before a Russian authority start READING the contains of the document.

    And of cause if you bring you own document of what ever sort it may be they will not accept that too, because "not a document", the funny thing is that I had been ask to make my own document listing my trips out/in of Russia (many trips) and when I went home, make the document, bring the document (a other day, after staying in line), they just look at it and return it without any arguments what so ever, same person that ask for the document last time is refusing to take the document she ask for her self, one just have to accept that you are sitting with a stupid idiot that have much more power than you have.

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  6. #5
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    Hans calling them stupid and idiots will get you nowhere. i would of course assume that you did not do it there? but a please and thank you and a what would you suggest that i can do, will get you much more. try it. i do it all the time...
    after i get my MAKS free insurance policy renewed for 5 more years, i will see what they will tell me about my pension...
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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    Uncle Wally (16-12-2017)

  8. #6
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    I agree with you Benedikt, it's no use getting personal. Best to be patient and friendly.

    I also agree that having medical insurance is the important thing. I use it all the time. The pension is someething I'm less bothered about. If they give it to me, fine.

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    Benedikt (16-12-2017), Indorus (18-12-2017)

  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by xt-tsi View Post
    I applied for my pension but was turned down. The refusal letter I received said that I paid social taxes as an employee for 6.7 years but needed to pay into the system for 7 years. Missed it by a few months. Without being approved as a pensioner I don't get the social card, allowing me to use public transport for free and giving me the 5% food discount.
    Have you tried to claim your contributions as according to this Sber Bank link - " You can receive your pension not earlier than after reaching the retirement age as a lump sum (if your savings are small)"

  11. #8
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    maybe i am wrong but isn't it the easiest way to prove that you qualify for a pension, if you were employed that is, your little grey - workbook-. After all all the jobs that you WORKED LEGALLY are put down in this workbook. and the pension is then being calculated according to your salary received AND the contributions to the tax man, the unemployment fund and of course the pension fund? and why so many people receive such a low pension? because they were registered with the minimum salary. and the rest was paid under the table. tax free but also did not count towards their future pension. few,if any people cared to invest at least some of the money i na private pension fund. now the have 10 000 rubles pension, the - extra - money long spent. and they are wailing and complaining how bad the world is.
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

  12. #9
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    Benedikt - I agree with you, thatís the thing right now. Please recommend a private pension plan.

  13. #10
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    By the way, I did end up getting my pension. I went back to the Pension Fund and got ahold of my first application and found out why it was turned down. I had permanent residency issued to me three times. The Pension Fund only considered the wages I earned while I had my most recent PRP and this period of time was too short to qualify for getting a pension. Also, I earned income at my sole property for the last couple of years which somehow wasn't included in the first application. The other wages I earned weren't accepted for reasons only known to the Pension Fund, although I submitted my work book which had all the info in it about my income.

    To prove that I have had permanent residency since 1995, I convinced the folks at my multi-functional center to find the documents showing where I have been registered in Moscow all these years. This took a bit of friendly yet insistent persuasion. These records showed the information (document numbers, dates of issuance and so on) about all three residency documents that I have had since the dawn of time, and proof of citizenship for the past year or so. I got stamps and signatures on these docs and submitted them to the migration office, along with my work book and proof of income for my sole property business. That got the job done; the Pension Fund accepted these documents after I made a second application. In short, they used the documents showing my registration in Moscow as verification that I had the legal right to earn my income, and thus I earned it. Go figure.

    Now I receive a whopping 12,000 Rubles per month in pension payments. The pension goes to a debit card at Sberbank that doesn't charge fees for its usage. The pension pays for benzine and a few bottles of wine. Mostly wine since I drive less and use public transport for free. Better than nothing. Getting the pension authorized me to go back to the multi-functional center and get a card issued by VTB which I swipe to take the bus and metro, and to get a 5% discount on groceries. Without a pension being authorized, this card cannot be obtained. I also have medical insurance and have had some medical treatment done that would have cost several thousand $ in the US but was of course free.

    The moral of the story is this. Keep copies of where you are registered in Moscow and make sure your work book is properly filled out if you want a pension. All Russians know this but I only found out after living in the country about 30 years.
    Last edited by xt-tsi; 19-04-2019 at 08:38.

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  15. #11
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    Xt-tsi, so happy for you.

    Thanks for such a informative post. I had no idea about the workbook.

    I just found out that one can claim the lump sump pension money if work years are less than the required years. If anyone done it then please shed a little light on it.

  16. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoverLearn View Post
    Benedikt - I agree with you, that’s the thing right now. Please recommend a private pension plan.
    check your pm
    There is no greater treasure then pleasure....

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