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Thread: UK / USA visa chaos coming soon !!

  1. #1
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    UK / USA visa chaos coming soon !!

    New passports issued after 26 October must hold "biometric" data such as digital images or fingerprints - or a visa will be needed.

    The UK authorities will not be able to issue such passports before mid-2005.

    British travellers holding a "machine-readable" passport - issued in Britain since November 1991 - can still travel to the US without a visa for the 10-year lifetime of their document.

    They will then have their fingerprints and photographs taken on arrival in the US.

    But those who get a new passport after October 26, but before biometric ones are available, will have to purchase a visa at a cost of 67.

    More than four million Britons a year travel to the US, and hundreds of thousands of them would be affected by the arrangements as they currently stand.
    Champagne the best lager money can buy

  2. #2
    Braders Guest
    Yeap just saw it on SKY news, i am sure the UK will hurry along their updated Passports and do a 'tit for tat' with the US.

    They also mentioned that UK Passports issued abroad could be non-machine readable in some circumstances.

    It's a great idea in the fight against crime, are they scanning US citizens as well?, if they are criminals who leave a fingerprint at a crime scene are well and truly fxxked

  3. #3
    geofizz56 Guest
    Right now the fingerprint/photograph deal is only for visitors who are required to have a visa. However, it does not yet apply to land crossings, which are a huge percentage of the total. I think even some seaports are not yet up and running with the new procedures - it's mostly aimed at airports.

    I heard the US has nearly 500 million border crossings per year. Not to mention the illegals sneaking in. That's an amazing number.

  4. #4
    ivanhoe Guest
    It's funny how media just picked up on the "fingerprinting" issues. My beloved Economist talked about all these issues way back in early December (see link: http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2246191)

  5. #5
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    im a yank and i dont know for a fact as my passport was issued pre 9/11 but i know my passport is machine readable but i also think that all new passports have the imbedded information. case in point us embassy here can issue only a tempory passport here now for a permanant they need to send off to the us. from what i understand they've already caught a few crimminals using the systems people traveling with fake passports that forgot they had their figerprints on file

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    Cool so you catch a few more criminals. My point is if you are a British or for that matter Australian etc passport holder and your passport expires after October 26th and before the biometric are issued in 2005, you will need to go to the USA Embassy in the UK and get yourself a visa which cost's about $100, you will be interviewed and fingerprinted. I have per say nothing against this as a law abiding person. However it will cause chaos for tourist's ie why go to the hassle of going to London to get a visa when I can go elsewhere with out hassle. As a business person it adds time and hassle to a trip if I need to go and sort out my visa. How many of us have stood outside the Russian Embassy and moaned about that ! My post was designed to alert people who will be trapped by this and so they will have time to react to it.
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Random
    Cool so you catch a few more criminals. My point is if you are a British or for that matter Australian etc passport holder and your passport expires after October 26th and before the biometric are issued in 2005, you will need to go to the USA Embassy in the UK and get yourself a visa which cost's about $100, you will be interviewed and fingerprinted. I have per say nothing against this as a law abiding person. However it will cause chaos for tourist's ie why go to the hassle of going to London to get a visa when I can go elsewhere with out hassle. As a business person it adds time and hassle to a trip if I need to go and sort out my visa. How many of us have stood outside the Russian Embassy and moaned about that ! My post was designed to alert people who will be trapped by this and so they will have time to react to it.
    I agree that sucks but this really sucks but what can you do...
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...fingerprinting

  8. #8
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    Love this part in that Yahoo story "Few Americans will wait more than an hour to complete formalities, immigration officials said .... "
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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by DaveUKagain
    Usually takes about 5 weeks for Americans to get issued passports, I seem to recall.

    Lot of my business clients were American, and I was astonished at how few actually HAD passports. I heard a figure that only 7% of US citizens had ever travelled outside the US......
    true and true sad thing is most americans live and die within 50 miles of where they are born. and the reality is the two closest countrys canada and mexico you dont need a passport. also you can travel from anyone point in europe to another faster than you can travel from los angeles to new york.

  10. #10
    earl Guest
    Originally posted by DaveUKagain
    Usually takes about 5 weeks for Americans to get issued passports, I seem to recall.

    Lot of my business clients were American, and I was astonished at how few actually HAD passports. I heard a figure that only 7% of US citizens had ever travelled outside the US......
    In large part because we don't need passports to travel to Mexico and Canada, many people don't get them.

    Edit: oops, I didn't read Trampler's post first. Did anyone read the entire article though? This idiot stuck out:

    Silva issued his ruling with some tough-sounding rhetoric, calling the U.S. program "absolutely brutal, threatening to human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis."
    I can grant that some may find it annoying to be fingerprinted and photographed when entering a foreign land, but brutal and threatening to dignity? And as for speaking of the Nazis, remind me -- which country went out of their way to harbor war criminals? Angel of Death indeed...

    -earl-

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    I am a US citizen and I've just read that Brazil will be photographing and fingerprinting US citizens on arrival. I can't complain because this is what the US is doing to Brazilians, but let me tell you, I won't be going to Brazil anytime soon. I am not a criminal and don't want to be treated like one. I suspect this is a sentiment shared by a lot of people that the US is humiliating in this manner and they won't be going to the US anytime soon.

    I think it's disgusting and disgraceful to treat everyone like a potential criminal based on where they are from (hey, i thought we don't discriminate in the US on the basis of national origin, right?). Frankly, I think the measures that have been put in place do nothing but get the rest of the world pissed off at us - where there is a will there is a way and if someone really wants to get into the US to do damage they will do so regardless of how many people we photograph and fingerprint.

  12. #12
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    true but the reality is if you have nothing to fear the 10 sec it takes to get your photo and finger prints taken is a small price. i personally would have no problem with this system if traveling to any country. the countries excluded are the same countires that have visa free travel to the us. brazil is not one of those countries so they are asking to be raised to a dimplomatic level higher than the currently occuppys which i see no merit in doing. fine they can resiperacate and finger print us upon entry but if they are use the same standards we apply to them currently brazilian dipolatic staff are exempt while us diplomat staff are not. our process 10 to 15 secs theirs an hour plus to over nine hours using ink pads and standard cameras and using these medthods the records will be almost useless due to difficulty of access and reference. countrys exempted under the us plan under 30 countries exempted in the brazilian plan everyone but americans. in terms of economics its moranic on their part they have much more to lose economically due to this procedure than the us does. i reiterate i fully agree they have the right to do what they are doing but also say they are fool hardy for doing so. as you had said were there is will there is a way well now its going to be much more difficult to enter the us with a false passport and they already caught several crimmals trying to enter the us on the first day of the program. many countries passports are much easier to forge than a standard drivers licensse in the us.

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    I would bet anything that the only people that the new system will ferret out are illegal immigrants coming to the US with forged documents to try to have a better life. Sophisticated terrorists would simply try to sneak in on passports from countries that do not need a visa, or, even if they get photographed/fingerprinted, that would be fine with them, as they are likely to die in whatever act they perpetrate anyway (the September 11 hijackers come to mind here). All the new system does is unnecessarily humiliate people. Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence - I guess it's the other way now...

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by vaska
    I would bet anything that the only people that the new system will ferret out are illegal immigrants coming to the US with forged documents to try to have a better life. Sophisticated terrorists would simply try to sneak in on passports from countries that do not need a visa, or, even if they get photographed/fingerprinted, that would be fine with them, as they are likely to die in whatever act they perpetrate anyway (the September 11 hijackers come to mind here). All the new system does is unnecessarily humiliate people. Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence - I guess it's the other way now...
    You are overally sensitive i would not feel humilated doing this one. two in just aboutg any country in the world crimminals can buy fake domuments that can withstand immagrations inspections at most points of entry though out the world a bit more difficult to change your fingerprints though. as you say if you want to get in you can get in but why make it easy for them. If I were to speak to the right people I could probally have a russian passport in a week or so for a couple grand. this passport would most likely hold up in most destinations in the world. this same senerio can be repeated around the world. my opinion is if you're afraid to have your finger prints and photo taken what do you have to hide. hell i had to submit to a full set a live scan finger printing to get a professional lic. in the states. should i feel offended i was made to do this? i think not. it is a precaution to head off abuse and fraud within the system...

  15. #15
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    Maybe i am overly sensitive although that's debatable when it comes to being treated as a potential criminal. I have nothing to hide - as a naturalized US citizen i already have my fingerprints on file somewhere. And photographs and fingerprints are not foolproof. You can change your appearance and fingerprints are only valid for a certain period of time. As a matter of fact, it took the INS almost two years to process my citizenship application back in the early 90's and they returned it to me once saying my fingerprints expired and I had to have them redone.

    I suppose I bitch about this so much because I really don't agree with a lot of what is being done in the "land of the free" in the name of security. I wonder if anyone ever bothered to point out that you can translate the Department of Homeland Security is as the KGB.

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