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Thread: Gay by... stroke!

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vovochka View Post
    Judging by your customer service standards (calling people liars, idiots and BS-ers), hosting events for bigots and spamming people, I think it's pretty clear to everyone here who the troll is.
    Bigots are people who do not allow others to think different way. YOU, for example But I won't host any event for bigots like you, don't worry

    And how could I call a person who lies, other than "a liar"?
    Last edited by FatAndy; 24-04-2012 at 10:38.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooters View Post
    Bigots are people who do not allow others to think different way. YOU, for example
    Um, first, you're "allowed" to think however you please. Second, your definition is incorrect. A bigot is someone who judges another group based on a--usually--innate characteristic. I have done neither. I have no prejudice against you as a person. I do object to your shallow ideas, but that's not bigotry, I'm sorry to say.

    And how could I call a person who lies, other than "a liar"?
    I'm surprised that someone in the customer service industry would have such difficulty grappling with the concept of customer service. But, as you ask (and you seem to enjoy negative attention), my advice would be, rather than to immediately call a potential customer a liar and prove him/her wrong, that you apologize for any misunderstanding and invite him/her back to show them how committed you are to providing a good experience. Maybe the person who complained is correct, maybe he isn't, but calling him a liar certainly won't get him back, regardless of nationality.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vovochka View Post
    Um, first, you're "allowed" to think however you please. Second, your definition is incorrect. A bigot is someone who judges another group based on a--usually--innate characteristic. I have done neither. I have no prejudice against you as a person. I do object to your shallow ideas, but that's not bigotry, I'm sorry to say.
    I won't argue on semantic points. About my ideas, do you know them, to judge they are "shallow"? It is probably not bigotry, my English is a bit poor. So let's call this intolerance, okay? You are just intolerant with my [shallow, if you want] ideas
    Bah! I do not really care about your thinking, so you may avoid to reply


    > I'm surprised that someone in the customer service industry would have such difficulty grappling with the concept of customer service. But, as you ask (and you seem to enjoy negative attention), my advice would be, rather than to immediately call a potential customer a liar and prove him/her wrong, that you apologize for any misunderstanding and invite him/her back to show them how committed you are to providing a good experience. Maybe the person who complained is correct, maybe he isn't, but calling him a liar certainly won't get him back, regardless of nationality

    I have posted here all evidences that clearly show that the person is wrong. People can lie deliberatly, by omission, by lack of memory, etc. The considered person in this case probably knows the truth, but whatever it is, she lied by saying what she said. This is also semantic...
    So I have for sure nothing to apologize for in this case (the 111 rubles tequila, I mean). Rather, the person should, to have posted not real facts on a public forum, and to persists rather after evidences have been posted in reply! But once more, I do not really care of this
    I would apologize IF we would have made an error, but that is not the case here.

    Allow me to expect that you have better to do than feed the troll, on my side I won't reply anymore, unless new false statements are posted of course
    Have a good day!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooters View Post
    About my ideas, do you know them, to judge they are "shallow"?
    Since you posted an annoucement about your party, you've let everyone know, have you not?

    You are just intolerant with my [shallow, if you want] ideas
    I'm not intolerant of them. To the contrary, I think everyone has the right to think whatever they want. I also think you have the right to express your ideas (whether they're ugly or not). I'm not asking anyone to ban you. You, want to curtail others right to express their ideas. That's what gay-pride is. You're hosting a party for people who want to pass laws banning gay parades. Do you see the difference ?

    I have posted here all evidences that clearly show that the person is wrong. People can lie deliberatly, by omission, by lack of memory, etc. The considered person in this case probably knows the truth, but whatever it is, she lied by saying what she said. This is also semantic...So I have for sure nothing to apologize for in this case
    It's not semantics - it's service. Ever hear "The Customer is always right"? Regardless of whether you're right or wrong, an establishment calling people 'liars' in public looks defensive and rude. You apologize not because you're right or wrong, but because good customer service is always deferential to the customer. Maybe you don't want that person back, but you've probably lost dozens more who realize that, as an establishment, Shooters responds defenisively to complaints.

    But that's my opinion and as you said, you don't care (something else I would never say if my login was the name of service establishment).

    A good day to you, too.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vovochka View Post
    You're hosting a party for people who want to pass laws banning gay parades. Do you see the difference ?

    So to be clear about gays (after all it is the topic!), I have nothing against gays, they are free to give their popa to whoever they want. But I am strongly against their public demonstrations, yes. I don't want my kids to see 2 men kissing each other, for example. That is why yes, I am FOR the ban of gay parades. Being gay or not is a private affair, no need to make it public.
    Voila, you are happy probably, a new reason to say I am a bigot, extremist, etc etc. The old music...


    > Maybe you don't want that person back, but you've probably lost dozens more

    Do you want to check my PMs box? I count exactly 17 messages from 11 various people, who do support me on this point.


    > But that's my opinion and as you said, you don't care (something else I would never say if my login was the name of service establishment).

    Some kind people even posted my full name and some passed activity here, so I have nothing to hide. And it is funny, but a few Customers after this spoke to me and gave me comgratulations ))))

    I could open a new account here without reference to the bar, but why? I am not globally interested by this forum unless than by a commercial side. It is not a secret

    And the anti-gaypride IS commercial sure. But it is very pleasant when we can do business according to our ethical, philosophical... and political ideas!


    > A good day to you, too.

    bis

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooters View Post
    Being gay or not is a private affair, no need to make it public.
    Except, there is a reason to make it public. They're denied the same rights others enjoy. And, when you're denied those rights, you attract attention to your cause. You have marches, demonstrations, protests, campaigns, etc.

    There are lots of things I don't like seeing, but I don't try to ban them. Maybe, if gays could marry like everyone else, they wouldn't need to have gay-parades.

    Do you want to check my PMs box? I count exactly 17 messages from 11 various people, who do support me on this point.
    Nope, and good for you. I bet there'd be a lot more though if you had just told Celia you were sorry for any misunderstanding and you'd be happy to give her a drink "on the house" her next time.


    Some kind people even posted my full name and some passed activity here, so I have nothing to hide. And it is funny, but a few Customers after this spoke to me and gave me comgratulations ))))
    I wasn't implying that you were hiding, nor do I care what your past activity was. I was saying that if you represent a service establishment, I wouldn't write "I don't care". It reflects poorly on the establishment. That's all. I think a service establishment should always care.

    Just my suggestions (as you asked).

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vovochka View Post
    Except, there is a reason to make it public. They're denied the same rights others enjoy. And, when you're denied those rights, you attract attention to your cause. You have marches, demonstrations, protests, campaigns, etc.

    There are lots of things I don't like seeing, but I don't try to ban them. Maybe, if gays could marry like everyone else, they wouldn't need to have gay-parades.

    This is a provocation ))) Of course I am strictly against right to get married, and to adopt kid(s).


    > Nope, and good for you. I bet there'd be a lot more though if you had just told Celia you were sorry for any misunderstanding and you'd be happy to give her a drink "on the house" her next time.


    It is exactly what I told to somebody else who had an error in the bar and who wrote privately. Bottle of champagne or 2 free cocktails of her choice. You would be surprised to know how many free drinks I offer every day.... to CORRECT people. And only.


    > I wasn't implying that you were hiding, nor do I care what your past activity was. I was saying that if you represent a service establishment, I wouldn't write "I don't care". It reflects poorly on the establishment. That's all. I think a service establishment should always care.


    I always care But where a person is so blind that she does not see that she is right, I give up.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooters View Post
    Right, but it also attracts more attention. An ad for "straight pride party" will be less efficient than for a "anti gaypride party".

    And as Russians are massively against these protests of gays, they will more appreciate. Of course bigots who groan against my announce won't, but do I really care...?
    It is obvious that either the philosophy that there IS no norm, that there are only "orientations", and marriage and the family are whatever you declare them to be; that is, they cease to be objective and definable institutions must dominate and drive out the traditional understandings held in common by pretty much all of mankind throughout history up to now, or the traditional understandings must drive out this insane idea that marriage, sex and the family can be whatever one wants it to be. They cannot co-exist. The one pretends that it can tolerate the other, but only by insisting that it is not normal, that it cannot determine the basis for forming society. Logically, I must acknowledge a "family" of two men, a man and his dog, three men, a women and two children (all as consenting sexual "partners"). If the institutions can be redefined at all, then they can be redefined at will. And there is no reason to stop at any given point - to say that it may beonly two consenting adults. Why not three? Or six? Why not reduce the age of consent as much as we like? Why not animals? On what basis do you propose reshaping society?

    So the traditional attitude of common sense broadly recognized by intelligent Russians and lost by most of the Western intellectual elite (if they may be called such) really does have reason on its side, and the intellectuals no real intellect, only lust and the irrational idea that these things cannot ruin and destroy civilization.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooters View Post
    This is a provocation ))) Of course I am strictly against right to get married, and to adopt kid(s).
    Not a provocation at all. You would deny them the right to marry, and then when they protest that, you deny them the right to protest. It's kind of like you want it both ways. As long as you admit your position is discriminating, then great - and we shouldn't dispute it when someone calls that being bigoted.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vovochka View Post
    Not a provocation at all. You would deny them the right to marry, and then when they protest that, you deny them the right to protest. It's kind of like you want it both ways. As long as you admit your position is discriminating, then great - and we shouldn't dispute it when someone calls that being bigoted.
    If it is bigotry, then believing that there must be limits on social freedom is bigotry. Then believing that anarchists ought to be denied the right to conduct anarchy and the right to advocate it is bigotry. We do not think that anything and everything; every desire that people may happen to have ought to be legalized and gratified. We do not think the pedophile's unnatural desire for children should be granted, hence, by your logic, we are "bigots". We do not think men should legally be allowed either sex or marriage with one's pet, and so we are "bigots". We believe that these things SHOULD be discriminated against, whereas your logic says at NOTHING should be discriminated against. We say discrimination can be either good or bad, appropriate or inappropriate, you say it can only be bad. Well, if our quite rational stand is "bigotry", then I would not want to NOT be one.

    Only that's why your definition of bigotry can't possibly be right. It really adds up to a label to attack anyone who supports what you don't like, or in this case, fails to support what you happen to approve of.

    Not that it's any good saying that to you. But it might help someone else see that it is actually your position that is unreasonable.

    (I can predict the follow-up: Vovochka excoriates me for equating pedophilia and bestiality to homosexuality, which I don't actually do, but he'll say I do, and of course, my previous post will go ignored, the point that the traditional family cannot co-exist alongside the new "family" limited only by the imagination in its composition.)

    Either the family is a solidly defined thing that can never be, generally speaking, up for re-definition, or the term becomes absolutely meaningless.

  11. #101
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    You really ARE a broken record, Rus (although inconsistent, apparently, as I thought I was being ignored, alas). You keep spouting the same illogical analogies ad nauseum. But for all your effected written elegance and esoteric mumblings into meanings and family, you're still a narrow-minded bigot. This isn't MY definition of bigotry, either. Intolerance against groups of people based on innate characteristics is THE definition. If you'd like to move the goal posts and change definitions to justify how shallow you are in denying inalienable rights, then go ahead, but don't then try to blame others.

    And yes, you did equate beastility and pedophilia with homosexuality by attempting to define why you find--what you oddly think is my definition of--bigotry acceptable by comparing homosexuality to criminal acts (I'll spare you the embarrasment of your reference to anarchists which isn't even a group with inherently innate characteristics). It's akin to your asking if it's okay to deny equal rights to red-heads because we have laws against murder. There is no connection. The presumption of equal rights does not preclude an ability to distinguish mutually consensual from criminal or abusive behavior. It just belies any intelligent grasp on the topic whatsoever.

    I'm split on whether you're truly too simple and narrow-minded to grasp this, or really just incapable of admitting that what you know is a primitive and ugly stance is what appears to define you (on these boards, at least).

    Either way, I, too hope others see your writing for the virtual pile of steaming BS that it truly is. You, on the other hand, seem beyond help, and while you laughingly decry the 'haters', prefer to seal yourself off by ever increasing the size of your ignore list. Please, put me back on it.

  12. #102
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    Your wish is granted.

    My prediction is confirmed by your predictability...

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
    My prediction is confirmed by your predictability...
    Predictability in not being narrow-minded is something I'm happy to continue providing to those who aren't bigots like you.

  14. #104
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    Life is not what you make of it. You are what Life makes of you.

  15. #105
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    It is easy to express one's own views. The real talent, though, is to be able to really understand those that you disagree with, and to be able to express them fairly, and even to find what is good in them and praise it. I'm still trying to learn that. GKC did manage it, and very very few people, I think, ever do.

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