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Thread: Marrying a Russian and staying!

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    Marrying a Russian and staying!

    Hello everyone, I'm new here. I have been searching the internet trying to find some answers to some questions. Sorry, it's a little long, but I figured someone would wind up asking for more details anyways!

    Background story:
    I'm an American man, 25 years old, very soon, I plan to move to Russia, and marry my fiance. I first met her at school in America, when she was here as an exchange student, and we have been in touch constantly since she went back (7 years!). I have been to Russia before to visit her, on my last trip there in September this year, I proposed to her. I absolutely love it there, and she has no interest in coming to America to live - she's happy, has a good job, and worries about the economy and other problems of America (have we really gotten that bad here?) Like I said, I love the country, and she is the love of my life - trust me on that.
    Point is, I'm now graduated from University, have been working a couple years saving up my money, and we've decided that I should go live in Russia with her. So I'm studying Russian, trying to figure out the process, looking at what sorts of jobs I could get in Russia, etc.

    So, what I want to do, is to go there early next year, marry her, obtain temporary residence, and eventually become a citizen. So, from what I understand, I need to travel to Moscow, obtain the necessary paper from the American embassy saying that I'm free to marry, get my documents translated, head to the foreign ministry and get everything approved. Then we need to go to ZAGS and schedule a wedding. Am I correct so far?
    Now, once we have our wedding (they say it takes 32 days to get one), how long does it take to get Temporary Residence? This is one thing I'm concerned about, it seems that it could take a while for this to be done. And, also from what I understand about visas, is that you can only be in Russia for 90 days in a 180 day period! So, does this mean I have to return to America and wait? I want to avoid this, it's expensive to fly back and forth to America, and when I get back to America, I won't have a job or anything to go to anymore, so it just seems like a big waste of money. Or, am I completely wrong about this?
    Also, I heard that once you have a temporary residence, it becomes more difficult to leave and come back. Not a big concern to me, I don't plan on going anywhere, but I was curious. And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.

    Is there anyone here who knows more about this process, or has perhaps done it themselves? Any advice? I appreciate anyone who can help this crazy American and hopeful future Russian!

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    Quote Originally Posted by generalhavok View Post
    Hello everyone, I'm new here. I have been searching the internet trying to find some answers to some questions. Sorry, it's a little long, but I figured someone would wind up asking for more details anyways!

    Background story:
    I'm an American man, 25 years old, very soon, I plan to move to Russia, and marry my fiance. I first met her at school in America, when she was here as an exchange student, and we have been in touch constantly since she went back (7 years!). I have been to Russia before to visit her, on my last trip there in September this year, I proposed to her. I absolutely love it there, and she has no interest in coming to America to live - she's happy, has a good job, and worries about the economy and other problems of America (have we really gotten that bad here?) Like I said, I love the country, and she is the love of my life - trust me on that.
    Point is, I'm now graduated from University, have been working a couple years saving up my money, and we've decided that I should go live in Russia with her. So I'm studying Russian, trying to figure out the process, looking at what sorts of jobs I could get in Russia, etc.

    So, what I want to do, is to go there early next year, marry her, obtain temporary residence, and eventually become a citizen. So, from what I understand, I need to travel to Moscow, obtain the necessary paper from the American embassy saying that I'm free to marry, get my documents translated, head to the foreign ministry and get everything approved. Then we need to go to ZAGS and schedule a wedding. Am I correct so far?
    Now, once we have our wedding (they say it takes 32 days to get one), how long does it take to get Temporary Residence? This is one thing I'm concerned about, it seems that it could take a while for this to be done. And, also from what I understand about visas, is that you can only be in Russia for 90 days in a 180 day period! So, does this mean I have to return to America and wait? I want to avoid this, it's expensive to fly back and forth to America, and when I get back to America, I won't have a job or anything to go to anymore, so it just seems like a big waste of money. Or, am I completely wrong about this?
    Also, I heard that once you have a temporary residence, it becomes more difficult to leave and come back. Not a big concern to me, I don't plan on going anywhere, but I was curious. And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.

    Is there anyone here who knows more about this process, or has perhaps done it themselves? Any advice? I appreciate anyone who can help this crazy American and hopeful future Russian!
    Easiest i could guess is 'buy' a work permit for around 3 grand a year, and 3 years after your marriage apply for permanent residence on the basis of marriage.

    That or if you make I think around 60 grand a year at the moment and work in a highly skilled profession you could try to get temporary residence on the basis of that.

    As far as the difficulty 'coming back' you have to get exit visas while under TRP I BELIEVE and not leave for more than 6 months. On the other hand you can go for citizenship very quickly after TRP is issued if you're married to a Russian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by generalhavok View Post
    And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.
    The biggest problem with this is - you will have to give up your American citizenship (and passport), and get a Russian passport which means you will have to apply for visas to visit many, many other countries !

    I don't know exactly, but since you are only 25, does anyone know if he would have to serve in the Russian army? (as a Russian citizen, of course)
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    Quote Originally Posted by xSnoofovich View Post
    The biggest problem with this is - you will have to give up your American citizenship (and passport), and get a Russian passport which means you will have to apply for visas to visit many, many other countries !
    Okay frankly this is BS.

    They don't confiscate passports anymore; there is no requirement to renounce foreign citizenship; and even if they did gank it you could walk down to the US embassy and have it re-issued.

    The United States Does NOT accept foreign renunciation of citizenship ANYWAY.

    Basically to give up American citizenship you have to walk into a US embassy spit on the official and officially swear that you renounce it, and get out before the guards nab you and allege you're a terrorist.

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    Russian Federation has nothing againist double citizenship. If generalhavok will "pull up rubber" for a couple of years he will reach 27 years age and get out of proscription lists.
    There is a project to increase this age to 30 but I'm not sure that it will be accepted.

    If he has higher education and military specialization, there is theoretical possibility to wear military boots as leutenant-sr.leutenant-captain for 1-2-3 years but I'm in doubts about it because of potential former/dual citizenship of country who drives aggressive imperialistic NATO block

    Quote Originally Posted by xSnoofovich View Post
    The biggest problem with this is - you will have to give up your American citizenship (and passport), and get a Russian passport which means you will have to apply for visas to visit many, many other countries !

    I don't know exactly, but since you are only 25, does anyone know if he would have to serve in the Russian army? (as a Russian citizen, of course)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kharaku View Post
    Okay frankly this is BS.


    The United States Does NOT accept foreign renunciation of citizenship ANYWAY.

    .
    whatchu talkin bout willis?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/us/26expat.html

    More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

    Amid mounting frustration over taxation and banking problems, small but growing numbers of overseas Americans are taking the weighty step of renouncing their citizenship.

    “What we have seen is a substantial change in mentality among the overseas community in the past two years,” said Jackie Bugnion, director of American Citizens Abroad, an advocacy group based in Geneva. “Before, no one would dare mention to other Americans that they were even thinking of renouncing their U.S. nationality. Now, it is an openly discussed issue.”

    The Federal Register, the government publication that records such decisions, shows that 502 expatriates gave up their U.S. citizenship or permanent residency status in the last quarter of 2009. That is a tiny portion of the 5.2 million Americans estimated by the State Department to be living abroad.

    Still, 502 was the largest quarterly figure in years, more than twice the total for all of 2008, and it looms larger, given how agonizing the decision can be. There were 235 renunciations in 2008 and 743 last year. Waiting periods to meet with consular officers to formalize renunciations have grown.

    Anecdotally, frustrations over tax and banking questions, not political considerations, appear to be the main drivers of the surge. Expat advocates say that as it becomes more difficult for Americans to live and work abroad, it will become harder for American companies to compete.

    American expats have long complained that the United States is the only industrialized country to tax citizens on income earned abroad, even when they are taxed in their country of residence, though they are allowed to exclude their first $91,400 in foreign-earned income.

    One Swiss-based business executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of sensitive family issues, said she weighed the decision for 10 years. She had lived abroad for years but had pleasant memories of service in the U.S. Marine Corps.

    Yet the notion of double taxation — and of future tax obligations for her children, who will receive few U.S. services — finally pushed her to renounce, she said.

    “I loved my time in the Marines, and the U.S. is still a great country,” she said. “But having lived here 20 years and having to pay and file while seeing other countries’ nationals not having to do that, I just think it’s grossly unfair.”

    “It’s taxation without representation,” she added.

    Stringent new banking regulations — aimed both at curbing tax evasion and, under the Patriot Act, preventing money from flowing to terrorist groups — have inadvertently made it harder for some expats to keep bank accounts in the United States and in some cases abroad.

    Some U.S.-based banks have closed expats’ accounts because of difficulty in certifying that the holders still maintain U.S. addresses, as required by a Patriot Act provision.

    “It seems the new anti-terrorist rules are having unintended effects,” Daniel Flynn, who lives in Belgium, wrote in a letter quoted by the Americans Abroad Caucus in the U.S. Congress in correspondence with the Treasury Department.

    “I was born in San Francisco in 1939, served my country as an army officer from 1961 to 1963, have been paying U.S. income taxes for 57 years, since 1952, have continually maintained federal voting residence, and hold a valid American passport.”

    Mr. Flynn had held an account with a U.S. bank for 44 years. Still, he wrote, “they said that the new anti-terrorism rules required them to close our account because of our address outside the U.S.”

    Kathleen Rittenhouse, who lives in Canada, wrote that until she encountered a similar problem, “I did not know that the Patriot Act placed me in the same category as terrorists, arms dealers and money launderers.”

    Andy Sundberg, another director of American Citizens Abroad, said, “These banks are closing our accounts as acts of prudent self-defense.” But the result, he said, is that expats have become “toxic citizens.”

    The Americans Abroad Caucus, headed by Representative Carolyn B. Maloney, Democrat of New York, and Representative Joe Wilson, Republican of South Carolina, has made repeated entreaties to the Treasury Department.

    In response, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner wrote Ms. Maloney on Feb. 24 that “nothing in U.S. financial law and regulation should make it impossible for Americans living abroad to access financial services here in the United States.”

    But banks, Treasury officials note, are free to ignore that advice.

    “That Americans living overseas are being denied banking services in U.S. banks, and increasingly in foreign banks, is unacceptable,” Ms. Maloney said in a letter Friday to leaders of the House Financial Services Committee, requesting a hearing on the question.

    Mr. Wilson, joining her request, said that pleas from expats for relief “continue to come in at a startling rate.”

    Relinquishing citizenship is relatively simple. The person must appear before a U.S. consular or diplomatic official in a foreign country and sign a renunciation oath. This does not allow a person to escape old tax bills or military obligations.

    Now, expats’ representatives fear renunciations will become more common.

    “It is a sad outcome,” Ms. Bugnion said, “but I personally feel that we are now seeing only the tip of the iceberg.”
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    They sell Motherland for money, super! "KAPITALIZOM!"(C)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kharaku View Post
    Okay frankly this is BS.

    They don't confiscate passports anymore; there is no requirement to renounce foreign citizenship; and even if they did gank it you could walk down to the US embassy and have it re-issued.
    Don't know how old this is, but !

    It should be noted that there are a number of conditions that a person desiring to acquire citizenship of the Russian Federation must observe: the obligation to observe the constitution of the Russian Federation, have a lawful source of means of subsistence, know the Russian language at a level established by the provision on the procedure for consideration of questions of citizenship of the Russian Federation, as well as the mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

    http://www.ndla.net/publications/art...itizenship.pdf

    why don't u just call up these lawyers and ask them?
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  9. #9
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    Although wiki says-

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_nationality_law"]Russian nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg" class="image"><img alt="Coat of Arms of the Russian Federation.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg/150px-Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/f2/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg/150px-Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg.png[/ame]

    Naturalization is usually granted if the following requirements are met:

    the person has been a permanent resident of Russia for not less than 5 years

    promises lawful behaviour

    has a legal source of income

    applied for termination of another citizenship (though the actual loss of foreign citizenship is not required)

    speaks Russian
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  10. #10
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    mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

    http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_1.html#p68 - article 6, Double citizenship

    http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_2.html - article 13, part 1г
    Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatAndy View Post
    mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

    http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_1.html#p68 - article 6, Double citizenship

    http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_2.html - article 13, part 1г
    Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;
    and does russia have this treaty with the united states?

    do you know anyone who has gone thru this process?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatAndy View Post
    mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

    http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_1.html#p68 - article 6, Double citizenship

    http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_2.html - article 13, part 1г
    Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;
    My Russian is terrible. Any help with this first part?

    г) обратились в полномочный орган иностранного государства с заявлениями об отказе от имеющегося у них иного гражданства. Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;

    Best I can come up with via google translator is - applied to the authority of a foreign country with a disclaimer from their existing nationality other.

    which pretty much almost looks to me like what the laywers were saying when they said - as well as the mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xSnoofovich View Post
    Don't know how old this is, but !

    why don't u just call up these lawyers and ask them?
    It's old and WRONG

    but don't take MY word for it:

    http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_776.html

    "B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

    A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

    appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
    in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
    sign an oath of renunciation
    Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below."

    Can you please stop spreading misinformation about the forum btw?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xSnoofovich View Post
    Although wiki says-

    Russian nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Naturalization is usually granted if the following requirements are met:

    the person has been a permanent resident of Russia for not less than 5 years

    promises lawful behaviour

    has a legal source of income

    applied for termination of another citizenship (though the actual loss of foreign citizenship is not required)

    speaks Russian
    frankly if I were planning the full route citizenship (which I am) i'd be a heck of a lot more worried about number 3.

    Further USA can keep her citizenship and massive pile of bad debt.

    oh wow now i'm not a citizen according to noobovich.

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    There is no indication that it is mandatory, as I see.
    Moreover, article 62 of Constitution says that citizen of Russian Federation can have also citizenship of other state according to federal law or international treaty of Russian Federation.
    But it is the question for a lawyer - do we have such treaties/agreements/laws with USA.

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