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Thread: a black student in Moscow attacked by skinheads last Saturday

  1. #1
    Milly Guest

    a black student in Moscow attacked by skinheads last Saturday

    Russia overall is a pretty tolerant and hospitable country, but in Moscow, St-Petersurg and some other big cities racism is quite strong...
    The day before yesterday I was going to the south of Moscow (where some people here say that there are plenty of blask students). One of black students entered the metro wagon where I was all bleeding. A second later a bunch of skinheads entered the same wagon and everybody understood that they were the reason of the black guy's injuries. A couple of passengers gave the guy some tissues and napkins so that he could wipe off his blood. None in the wagon dared to call the train driver cause everybody was scared of the skinheads. The next station the left the wagon and everbody thought that they left their victime alone. ut they just went to the next wagon. Women in the wagon started to think how to get the foreigner to the next medical center for first aid. The guy asked how he could call the ambulance, his Russian was very good and he was also holding a huge philospphy textbook in Russian. The next station the skinheads reentered the wagon and started beating the black guy and it was clear that they wouldn't stop till he is dead.
    I tried to stand between the black guy and the skinheads, some other russian men tried to protect him and then skinheads started fighting the Russians. the entire wagon was fighting, women screaming. I ran to the radio conecting the wagon with the driver and said that there is a fight in the wagon. That's when I lost the black guy out of my sight. when I came back to the place where he sat before I saw that part of the wagon empty and suddenly saw a skinhead with a knife in his hand beating a Russian man who stood up for the black guy. The skinhead was beating the man and threatening him with the knife. The skinhead was so mad that he could put his knife into action any second. I tried to talk to him, just to calm him down a little and to distract him. At this moment we arrived to the next metro station where all the people rushed out from the wagon onto the platform. There was ONE 'militsia' guy against 6 or 7 skinheads. This looked ridiculous but I saw two skinheads running away, the rest of them disappeared. I stood in the door of the wagon till I saw that the black guy wasn't neither in the wagon, nor on the platform and that there were no skinheads waiting for him. I also saw the knife on the floor of the wagon. The Station supervisor came and picked up the knife. I asked her what they are going to do and she said that they can't do much as they have only militsioner (russian policeman) per station. I asked her if they would call the city police and she said no, cause "thay wouldn't come so quickly anyway". I came home about 20 minutes later and called the city police. I asked them if they had any calls regarding what had happened in the metro station, thay connected me with someone metro "general" guy hwo told me that they'd got a call, but "the info had not been confirmed" I said that I was the witness of the incident and that the skinheads would kill the black guy if they catch him and he said "we've checked several neighbouring stations, everything is clear. Thank you for calling".

    I understood that the police doesn't care and I didn't know what to do next. The worst thing is that everybody will pretend that nothing happened and if nothing happened no actions have to be taken to stop it. And if none stops it, such thing will continue.

    I should have asked the guy what country he was from, so that I could call his embassy at least, but I didn't. I forwarded this message to a couple of human right organizations, but have no reactions yet either. If you know what should and can be done to make our authorities act, please do it.

    And if this black guy is still alive (which I really hope he is) I'll be happy to hear something from/about him. Knowing that he is alright just will make me feel much better.

    Thanks a lot.

  2. #2
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    News like this breaks my heart. I grew up here as a sort of foreigner, but only lately things like these started to happen. I am ashamed and feel powerless. 6-7 m.... f.......s against one man.... just because he is black Animals don't do this kind of things
    " ..!" ()

  3. #3
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    I'm sorry but can't provide you with any info about the poor guy
    but do think it is great that people on the subway decided to stand up for him!

  4. #4
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    If the authorities had the will to do something about this issue they could solve a lot of this skinhead violence very quickly. I was a front row witness to similar barbarity some months ago - riding the metro from Voykovskaya to Pushkinskaya around midnight one Thursday night. A group of around 20 of these morons went from car to car hunting people of Asian descent. An elderly guy sitting 2 feet away opposite me (looked like someone coming off shift from a restaurant) had his face kicked in by a skinhead, while the rest of then climbed in. They found and beat 6 or 7 people over the course of 5 stops. It was obvious that this group would ride that green line train all the way to the end and back again, and "cleanse" it of those they disliked. The rest of the carriage sat in fear and silence, and sadly, wisely so. I think everyone felt shocked and traumatised and helpless. These outings are not arbitrary, but are carefully planned by these groups. I believe the police could very easily position "busts" on these lines, and smash these young punks. This is not a sophisticated group but rather a bunch of idiots - infiltration would be a cinch. Somebody needs to capture some footage of one of these attacks and get it sold to one of the big Asian TV networks, and get some backlash going against Russia in those countries. Maybe only then will the authorities start showing any "concern". But I think even that is hoping for too much.
    Лучше на восьмерых разделить пирог, чем голодать в одиночку.

  5. #5
    Claude Bottom Guest
    Whilst I really sympathise with the poor fella who was the victim in the original post, this is not solely a Russian matter. The same thing happened on the metro in London - my fiancee witnessed a racist attack, and I was coming back from work on the train a month back and saw something pretty similar.

    There wasn't any violence in the incident I witnessed, but I was the only person in the carriage who went off (with a black woman and a (white) South African lady) - "Let's get this sorted out" I said, took them down to the ticket office and we got the station master to ring British Transport Police.

    No one else in the carriage did anything. They were, of course, "suitably outraged" at home later, I expect. Well, there y'go, that's how it works. But it's not just a Russian problem.

    Regarding the Militsiya, whilst I can't defend what they do, I would ask why someone who earns virtually nothing should actually *care* about the work he does, especially when there's the chance of him being stabbed or beaten - with probably no sick pay, either. And a wife and kids to provide for.

    Yes, Russians are racist. In the same way that people in the UK are racist - the majority are decent people, in both countries, but not decent enough to get involved, and no, I didn't put my personal safety on the line, but if it came to trouble, may have done. That's just me. I don't know. Most people make big noises about not being racist, but ignore the problem. It's something they'd like to be thought of as being. A few people are racist by inaction - some are carelessly racist - some are actively racist and there's a few skinhead idiots in every country. You don't need a swastika tattoo and a close haircut to be a racist. Also, you don't need to be a badly paid policeman not to care.

    So what's this post about ? A description of an incident ? They unfortunately happen everywhere. A reminder that the police everywhere don't care as much as we would like them to ? Most people don't care as much as we would want them to. The world is unfortunately not comprised of heroes. Not even the occasional one. Me included.

    We all wish it was a perfect world, it's not. But if the post above is supposed to prove how racist Russia is and how louche the police there are....... it's the same the world over.

  6. #6
    DPG Guest
    Originally posted by Claude Bottom
    Regarding the Militsiya, whilst I can't defend what they do, I would ask why someone who earns virtually nothing should actually *care* about the work he does, especially when there's the chance of him being stabbed or beaten
    Bollards!

    How about pride in enforcing the law in your nation?

    Patriotism?

    Respect for the law and the freedom and safety it brings?

    Desire to help people?

    Wanting to make even a small difference?

    If someome has the kind of attitude you mention above they should go and work in a produckti or sweep the metro platforms or something not take a job as a servant of the state and of its public.

    Police in the UK for example earn a fairly decent salary by Russian standards (not just standards for Russian police either) - they also have an equal chance of being stabbed, beaten, shot, blown up etc - do they care about the work they do?

    Too bloody right they do - money is not the reason they took the job in the first place...

  7. #7
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    I have no idea how I could sit there and watch that happen. BZ to you helping in any way you could.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by RIKO
    Somebody needs to capture some footage of one of these attacks and get it sold to one of the big Asian TV networks, and get some backlash going against Russia in those countries. Maybe only then will the authorities start showing any "concern". But I think even that is hoping for too much.
    So You propose to deal with one problem by creating another? What's the fault of the Russian families in Asian countries? That they are Russian? By the way, they ARE persecuted as it is, which is partly the reason for the violence back in Russia.

    I agree with the rest. If the police had the will, they would have kicked these idiots into oblivion. OMON is renowned for hitting first, asking questions later. And that's the only language they understand!
    I want to die like my grandfather - smiling in his sleep. Not screaming with horror, like his passengers.

  9. #9
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    People need to report these incidents everytime they happen. Unfortunately, people don't because they believe the police don't care enough do do anything and sometimes they are under strength to respond when they do.
    However, as someone said its quite easy for the authorities to send people under cover and smash these gangs and if enough people report these incidents, perhaps they will.
    That's how a lot of the maffia were culled years back.
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  10. #10
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    Has anyone experienced these types of gangs not only attacking black and asians, but any foriegners regardless of race. Has any Expat's been involved in such activities.

  11. #11
    Claude Bottom Guest
    "Bollards!

    How about pride in enforcing the law in your nation?

    Patriotism?

    Respect for the law and the freedom and safety it brings?

    Desire to help people?

    Wanting to make even a small difference?"

    DPG, most Enquiries here have mentioned two words in connection with the UK police - "Institutionally racist". I think you're describing a perfect world, there.....

  12. #12
    boscoe Guest
    Originally posted by Claude Bottom
    "Bollards!

    How about pride in enforcing the law in your nation?

    Patriotism?

    Respect for the law and the freedom and safety it brings?

    Desire to help people?

    Wanting to make even a small difference?"

    DPG, most Enquiries here have mentioned two words in connection with the UK police - "Institutionally racist". I think you're describing a perfect world, there.....
    You're joking right???

    Comparing the Russian Polices attitude to race with that of the British Police is simply ludicrous - have you ever lived here???

    Im sure you will find somewhere that says the British Police are corrupt as well try offering them a tenner next time you get stopped for speeding and see what happens!

  13. #13
    DJ Biscuit's Avatar
    DJ Biscuit is offline Life will not break your heart. It'll crush it.
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    While there has been talk of and a report on 'institutional racism and corruption' especially in the Metroplitan force I think the key phrase here is 'talk of and a report on'. This issue IS taken seriously in Britain and the problem is recognised as a problem.

    Observing police behaviour in the two countries in question, a luzury afforded me, I can say to compare the two is naive at least.

    Plus we are talking of racism not only within the police but of the 'skinhead factor', a problem which Britain in the past also suffered, racism still exists, yes, but the scale here and there is a world apart. We dealt with it, moved on and continue to deal with it. A start has to be made somewhere.

    Plus saying 'we have the same in England' does in no way justify it here or anywhere.

    Remember the sitcom 'Love Thy Neighbour' or the comedians of the 70's with their racist 'jokes'? Well that's the norm here and only when it's recognised as racist and unacceptable will things change
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  14. #14
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    There is no easy answer to these problems anywhere. I don't believe that there is only one Militiaman located at every Metro station, there are at least two usually doing document checks inside every station and especially at the start and finish stations for removing drunks etc.

    Survival is a basic human instinct and I can fully understand why anyone might be reluctant to get involved in the defense of a victim when you have a group of morons hell bent on violence. These guys were most probably 'high' on something and they simply don't know when to stop. I'm sure the one with the knife would've used it had he felt it necessary and, there were probably other concealed weapons in that group too.

    Perhaps Moscow needs to implement a 'Guardian Angel' system like they have/had in New York. Although there are arguments whether or not this stops or provokes violence too.

    I think that the answer lies in education and response. If you agree that the average travelling time between Metro stations is about 3 to 5 minutes then there must be an improved system of communication between the passengers (via the Intercom) the driver and the Metro Militia. It won't stop somebody getting killed or badly injured as 3 minutes being on the receiving end of a brutal attack is more than enough to kill someone, but at least the Militia might have a chance of arresting the attackers at the next station. Also, should our Cities be responsible for our safety on public transport? I think that they should and if there were a few legal claims and precedent cases of compensation then perhaps, local authorities would try to do something more positive.

    I know that it is a sign of getting old, but when I look at the faces of some of these Militiamen on the Metro, I can't help thinking that they're boys just out of school. You can't blame them, (well you can but its pointless), its all in their pure training. Similar to the Army, there is not much pride left within their ranks. Its a part of Russian life, I'm sorry to say, but even so it is good to hear that some civilian passengers were at least prepared and did try to help the victim, putting their own lives at risk.

    Just for balance I would add that the electric trains usually have two Militiamen travelling on them, but even there such attacks take place.

  15. #15
    DPG Guest
    Originally posted by Claude Bottom
    DPG, most Enquiries here have mentioned two words in connection with the UK police - "Institutionally racist". I think you're describing a perfect world, there.....
    Someone once sent me an email telling me that every institution in he UK was institutionally racist...what rubbish.

    Even if the Met DOES suffer from this plague, it is internally directed and manifests itself in recruitmant and promotion, not in their effectiveness to combat crime, something they do very effectively.

    And if we aretaling police racism, Dave, if you ever get round to actually living here, you will see that if whatever watchdog that deemed the Met racist were to come here, they would have a bloody field day.

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