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View Full Version : When should British troops leave Ireland



smiley culture
18-08-2003, 13:20
Today
Tomorrow
Never
When the Americans leave Iraq
I couldn't care less

murbanski
22-08-2003, 10:44
Tiocfaidh Ar La...

Ravenseye
02-09-2003, 09:15
Ireland's a country? Next you'll be telling me Canada is one too....

pafckinzhalosta
02-09-2003, 14:10
Pa****inzhalosta, who's dumber here.

Sure Ireland and Canada are countries.

There aren't any British troops in Ireland.

There are British troops all over the United Kingdom though.

Which includes Whales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

skinnylad
02-09-2003, 14:31
Er that's "Wales", but never mind.

pafckinzhalosta
02-09-2003, 14:32
I was refering to the Royal Navy's new venture into the seafood market.

twaj
03-09-2003, 15:25
American troops are in the darndest places, like Greenland...

J.D.
03-09-2003, 15:42
Didn't know the US was in Greenland but I did know they are in Iceland and even at the South Pole.

DJ Biscuit
05-09-2003, 23:59
By the way although I agree they should leave, just in principle that is a loaded question. You are assuming that everyone thinks they should leave, no choice.

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Kinda ting and ting.

Anyways, the answer is: like now, let them do something more useful.

neilmcg
06-09-2003, 16:29
>> like now, let them do something more useful <<

Yeah, Bush needs them in Iraq to help him get re-elected.

I hear Blair's solution to the Hutton Inquiry is to abdicate and formally hand power over to the USA, to end the pretence? :)

N.

moscowmail
09-07-2004, 13:07
The main problem is that Ireland is a cheap and close training ground for the British Army, this was told to me by the then Minister for N. Irleand when i looked after him in Belfast a long time ago, and it is still the case....

Sidney Bliss
09-07-2004, 13:18
Originally posted by moscowmail
The main problem is that Ireland is a cheap and close training ground for the British Army

Nail on the head. It's a badly kept secret.

DPG
09-07-2004, 13:25
What would be the consequences were they to leave though - surely they are the lesser of two evils (the other being all out anarchy between warring factions)?

Even taking into consideration the "they incite violence" arguement, I'm certain that the Orange marches for example would have far more dire consequences if the army didn't police them.

Sidney Bliss
09-07-2004, 13:30
Originally posted by DPG
surely they are the lesser of two evils (the other being all out anarchy between warring factions)?


This is the misleading official justification for their continued presence.

DPG
09-07-2004, 13:45
Can you honestly say that violence would decrease or even cease were the policing to stop though??

What about the part of the population of the region who want the troops in Northern Ireland...?

What are the alternatives to military policing (until actual ceasefires and quantifiable decommissioning have started in earnest)? Would the RUC be up to the job? (Are they still an entity? Seem to remember reading recently that they were disbanded or whatever the term would be??) Would civil rule be sufficient? Barring N.I. becoming part of Rep.I., the Irish military couldn't have a presence there...?

Let's move this to the cafe - it's the first interesting thread for a while...

moscowmail
09-07-2004, 14:00
Originally posted by DPG
Can you honestly say that violence would decrease or even cease were the policing to stop though??

------

It would sort itself out old bean, the fact of the matter is it is political crap, and organised crime, could tell you a few stories.... but not in public :)
I am out of here :)

Sidney Bliss
09-07-2004, 14:01
Originally posted by DPG
Can you honestly say that violence would decrease or even cease were the policing to stop though??


What are the alternatives to military policing (until actual ceasefires and quantifiable decommissioning have started in earnest)? Would the RUC be up to the job? (Are they still an entity? Seem to remember reading recently that they were disbanded or whatever the term would be??)

What violence? There is no more violence in NI that there is in any other part of the UK. The P.S.N.I. (formerly the RUC) are more than up to 'the job'. NI today is actually a rather prosperous and forward looking province which is continuing to attract substantial business investment from overseas interests. It's very far removed from the war zone many would have the UK's general public believe it is.

DPG
09-07-2004, 14:13
Agreed.

But, there are occassions each year when the military still come into force (and when the PSNI/RUC have often failed in the past at controlling things). Surely it would be worse to have "flying squads" coming in for these specific events than to have a constant presence (albeit small) in the region?? (Special i.e. non-standard teams of military or policing personnel not exactly having been 'well recieved' by the population at such events i.e. 2nd Bttn. Para. Reg. who were the non-standard unit at the Bloody Sunday marches).

Also, The British Army are in fact those charged with the military protection of Northern Ireland (regardless of real-time threat or risk). Surely by "constitutional rights" (for want of a better phrase), they should be there in a form - It is easy to guess how the population of Britain would feel if the military were suddenly ordered to leave...

DPG
09-07-2004, 14:14
Looking back to when the troubles were prevalent in the region, would you say that the military presence augmented or diminished these troubles??

Sidney Bliss
09-07-2004, 14:32
Originally posted by DPG
Looking back to when the troubles were prevalent in the region, would you say that the military presence augmented or diminished these troubles??

Bloody Sunday itself was the flashpoint which ignited the troubles of the 70's, 80's and early 90's resulting in the British military becoming an antagonising presence for the Nationalist community at large and the focus point of (paramilitary) Nationalist 'retaliation'.

DPG
09-07-2004, 15:10
Ok, but, if the military had withdrawn the day after Bloody Sunday, would there have been more troubles in the region than if they hadn't?

The answer has to be yes, because although they did become a focal point, the two "sides" in the region were also (and even more so) one another's focal points with regard to violence and paramilitary activity.

The spate of tit-for-tat killings and actions targeting nothing but civilians (Omagh) or the regions non-military policing units (Loughall [sp?]) spread over decades cannot be attributed wholly to one incident in the 70's.