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Maine Surfer
25-05-2004, 10:48
Fellow expats and Russkis,

I've been to Moscow for almost 6 month, and just realized that I still don't know much about the place. I live in south west, rarely get to the center, been to friends dacha a few times, ate out quite a bit, visited Teply Stan rinok, MEGA quite a few times, had TONS of biz meetings and have WORKED all the time. I just realized that I need to mix in something spicy into daily routine, I feel that corporate life is sucking me in. I need new to advises on this town again, almost as much as when I lived back in the States.

First advise I need is about buying a car, but this will be a whole different thread.

The second is about places to buy inexpensive cloth. I'm getting sick of the stuff I brought from the USA. I haven't clothing shopped anywhere cause find prices very high. Are there any places where one can buy inexpensive decent quality dungarees? Rinoks?

Anyway, thanks for help good souls out there (and maybe some evil ones )

:)

sevan
25-05-2004, 10:53
Maine, I don't think that there are any places to buy cheap clothes in Moscow. :(

However, there is an OK place called "Diskont" on Kuznetsky Most that has some very nice clothes at more or less normal prices for more or less expensive clothes. I would say that the "discount" at Diskont makes the designer clothes there basically priced the same as they would be in the US or Europe. As opposed to 2-3 times more expensive - which are normal Moscow prices. Worth checking out.

Maine Surfer
25-05-2004, 10:55
Thank you, will check the place out. Can you give more precise location by any chance?

sevan
25-05-2004, 10:59
Not sure of the exact address, but it is building number 14 or so....

Maine Surfer
25-05-2004, 11:14
sevan,

thanks alot, map! Even beeter than I hoped for!

Teutonic Deity
25-05-2004, 11:32
another place that has acres and acres of clothing is the "Mockba" rynok. 2 floors and the size of 6 football fields. Real pain in the butt to get to by car, but a breeze on the metro.

10 minute walk from the metro, or grab minibus #1 which will take you right to the door

GreatArcticBear
25-05-2004, 11:54
Designer merchandise, although sometimes a little outdated, and therefore priced a bit lower than Discont-Center:

DISKONT, metro Novoslobodskaya - I forget if the address is indeed Novoslobodskaya #3, but it is the same building (right opposite the metro) as CafeMax and TGI Friday's - second floor.

However, DO NOT, repeat DO NOT, use the atelye adjacent to Diskont for alterations (the 2 are not affiliated). Yeva, the owner, is a thoroughly incompetent, dishonest cow who cannot even handle the simplest job (and hires ppl worse than she is), but she charges prices that are much higher than other places charge.

rantandrave
25-05-2004, 12:23
The chain of stores "Paninter" sometimes has ok, casual type stuff. They have a large store in the underpass at metro Kutuzovskaya, and many other locations around the city. They are very reasonably priced, but the quality is unpredictable. I have to say that, despite very rare exceptions, it's almost impossible to find decent-quality clothing in rynoks. Sure, it's cheap, but most of it is so crap it'll have to be replaced in a few months anyway.

pengwn9
25-05-2004, 12:43
I've bought some clothing in rynoks and found the prices to be ok and the quality pretty standard, but the bigger problem is trying them on. Some rynoks don't have so much as a curtain to hide behind. And the sizing here is such a crazy-quilt of cultures it's quite impossible to buy clothes without trying them on. European sizes, Russian sizes, Turkish sizes.

I don't suppose Maine Surfer is looking for ladies undergarments but I saw a lady not long ago at the rynok under the underpass at Sportivnaya Metro--huge rynok--putting on a hot pink bra over her dress and sweater to check the fit. She and the vendor were snapping the straps and discussing its virtues and qualities out in the middle of throngs of people. No one paid it any attention. There's something you'd never see in America!

Stuff to do? Check out the VVT park up at the VDNK metro stop on the orange line. It has the most impressively huge gilded fountain anywhere in the world. It's a Soviet era exhibition park and 400 acres of botannical gardens. Some of the grandest buildings of the Soviet times. They still hold shows and exibits there. And it's a great place for rollerblading, walking, biking.

GreatArcticBear
25-05-2004, 12:46
And another one which sells liquidation merchandise is Stok Center - locations near Elektrozavodskaya and Shosse Entuziastov metro stations among others. However - caveat emptor - some of this stuff is counterfeit merchandise bearing famous manufacturer and designer names. Yet another such place is Familia - cheap stuff but watch out for fakes. Familia is located on ul. Dubininskaya, metro Paveletskaya, 3 stops on tram going away from center. Other locations as well - not sure where.

Insane Squeezer
25-05-2004, 12:54
Try STOCK chain shops, they are numerous in town (one next door to Kosmos hotel, another one on Proezd Dezhneva). Great choice of (relatively) inexpensive wear.

Insane Squeezer
25-05-2004, 12:57
Originally posted by Maine Surfer
Fellow expats and Russkis,

:)

Just in case, "Russkie" sounds offensive in this usage (something like "Niggers"), use "Russians" instead.

Maine Surfer
25-05-2004, 14:25
Really?? Why is it offensive? It's the first time I hear Russki is an offensive term. They use it quite a bit in the States, and in no way it's considered offensive by anyone.

SVL
25-05-2004, 20:20
For jeans and other stuff you may also try visiting Berso. It`s Metro Semenovskaya...well...out of metro, then turn left, then turn left again, and you`ll see the sign of this store:)
I don`t have a map:), sorry
Rather small, sells mostly jeanswear, accepts credit cards, prices are quite reasonable (i`ve bought 3 jeans for just $110).
If you can speak Russian and know what LJ is, there is a Russian -LJ community, msk_consumer, where you can ask questions like that. I think that questions in English will be answered, too.

kniga
25-05-2004, 20:38
Maine Surfer,

Check your PM for a list of 14 sightseeing destinations and how to get there by metro.

Filimon
25-05-2004, 20:43
Originally posted by Insane Squeezer
Just in case, "Russkie" sounds offensive in this usage (something like "Niggers"), use "Russians" instead.

that's rubbish!

DTS
25-05-2004, 21:34
Absolutely stunning rinok is Cherkizovskiy/Izmailovskiy one (heard both names):). At Cherkizovskaya metro station. There one can obtain the stuff from 'friendly Eastern nations' at hilarious prices… the deeper you go the cheaper things are… who cares about quality when you can buy a shirt (don’t miss a letter ;) !) for $1!?! :D :D

cat-CA
26-05-2004, 11:51
Originally posted by rantandrave
I have to say that, despite very rare exceptions, it's almost impossible to find decent-quality clothing in rynoks. Sure, it's cheap, but most of it is so crap it'll have to be replaced in a few months anyway.

I completely agree.

I have to bring our (for me and my husband) clothing from the U.S. And I'm not a snob! Jeans, shoes (especially shoes!), shirts, pants, suits (especially suits!) both casual and dressy - everything is highly overpriced.
Yes, you can find a shirt for $1 but I'm sure you wouldn't like it.

The only thing I've bought here - several pairs of ECCO shoes (for $120 instead of $50-60 in the U.S.) for my husband because I can't buy it without him.

Oh, no, I forgot! I know one thing I can recommend for buying here - cheap dressy shirts and ties at "Hendersson" stores. I know one in the MEGA mall. Wide choice of colors, low prices - from 150 rubles on sale to 800 rubles for quite nice quality shirts.

Ignia
26-05-2004, 12:24
Familia shops addresses AND maps available on their web-site
www.famil.ru - but I'm not sure if there is an English version...

M-C
26-05-2004, 12:50
Just do like you do everywhere else.... wait for the sales! I've been living here for 10 years and I still buy just about everything abroad, it often seems like such a drag to find anything here, shopping centres are crowded, so is the transport that should get you from one to the other, if they don't have your size or your colour....

Maine Surfer
26-05-2004, 13:07
Thank you all. Hope it's helpful to others too

Insane Squeezer
26-05-2004, 16:06
Originally posted by Maine Surfer
Really?? Why is it offensive? It's the first time I hear Russki is an offensive term. They use it quite a bit in the States, and in no way it's considered offensive by anyone.

The word "Russkie" (written as is, in English letters) may sound quite derogatory. When the same word is written in Russian letters, it's OK. I think this happened because the majority of the Russians who moved to Anerica were not the type of people one would love to have much in common. The expression "Novie Russkie" (new Russians) sounds semi-facious, semi-offensive. The word "new" may drop, but its rotten flavor stays in place yet.
Or, maybe, because in the Russian language the same English word "Russian" can be translated with two different words: 1) Rossiyane (all citizens of Russia) and 2) Russkie -- ethnic Russians. Mind, not every Rossiyanin is Russki. Take Chechens or Tartars. They are technically Russians too but dare say it to them!

Filimon
26-05-2004, 16:10
Originally posted by Insane Squeezer
The word "Russkie" (written as is, in English letters) may sound quite derogatory. When the same word is written in Russian letters, it's OK. I think this happened because the majority of the Russians who moved to Anerica were not the type of people one would love to have much in common. The expression "Novie Russkie" (new Russians) sounds semi-facious, semi-offensive. The word "new" may drop, but its rotten flavor stays in place yet.

What on earth are you on about? "Russkie" is just a transliteration of the Russian word for "Russians", that's all. I don't know what kind of Russians moved to United States, if they take offence at the sound of their own nationality.

I personally do not mind it at all!

As for "New Russians" - that was a media term, which caught on through the anecdotes and stand-up comedians. If someone calls an average Russian a "New Russian" it won't sound offensive, it wil sound ridiculous.

Insane Squeezer
26-05-2004, 16:21
Originally posted by Filimon
"Russkie" is just a transliteration of the Russian word for "Russians", that's all.

Say, you are ethnic Chechen... or Ukrainan.. or whoever...
You bear the Russian passport and so in English you may be called the Russian, right?
But if you speak Russian as your first language you will never call these people "Russkie", right?
You don't call, say, the Kiwis "English" on the ground they speak English language, do you?
So if I speak Russian but I fill no affinity to the Russian nation, what on Earth one calls me "Russki"?

Filimon
26-05-2004, 16:28
Originally posted by Insane Squeezer
Say, you are ethnic Chechen... or Ukrainan.. or whoever...
You bear the Russian passport and so in English you may be called the Russian, right?
But if you speak Russian as your first language you will never call these people "Russkie", right?
You don't call, say, the Kiwis "English" on the ground they speak English language, do you?
So if I speak Russian but I fill no affinity to the Russian nation, what on Earth one calls me "Russki"?

Well if you call a Ukrainian a "Russian", а "Russki", "Русский", or anything else for that matter that is connected to Russia, he/she will still get offended, no matter what the spelling or alphabet is.

You meant that Russian means both "ethnic Russian" and "citizen of Russia" in English, right? However, in this case how can you say that Russki causes offence, but Русский does not? Русский does not necessarily mean "citizen of Russia". Россиянин does.

polly
26-05-2004, 16:35
ANYWAY

Maine, if you are looking for something more like a skateshop for jeans, try NeOlimpiskii Igri sort of near gorbushka. i give shitty directions but if you PM me i will try. if you go there they will tell you where another shop is (Black Side's), which is waaaaay the F*** out of town. there is another NeOlimpiskii somewhere else in the city.
geez i'm really helpful, aren't i. anyway, skateshops exist with those types of clothing brands, etc, not cheap or anything but they're out there. (i'd say prices are comparable to US skateshop prices).

cat-CA
26-05-2004, 16:54
Neolimpiyskie Igry - their site www.xoxox.ru

Near Gorbushka store is located at Bolshaya Filevskaya 22, bldg. 2.
Another one store is located in South-East - ul. Saykina 9/1 (metro station Avtozavodskaya)

Insane Squeezer
27-05-2004, 09:35
Originally posted by Filimon
Русский does not necessarily mean "citizen of Russia". Россиянин does. Exactly. I am а Russian citizen (россиянин) but I am not русский. That is, I don't want to be confused with the русские on the ground that I bear bloody Russian passport like they do.

kniga
27-05-2004, 10:37
Insane Squeezer,

At last you have made yourself clear: your gripe is not with the expats' improper use of the word "русские" rendered as "Russkis," but rather the fact that your own personal ethnicity is other than Russian. Unfortunately for you, the vast majority of Russians and expats refer to the folks inhabiting this vast land as "русские" or "Russkis," a convenient and conventional term that avoids the awkward subcategories of Chechen-Russian, Chukchi-Russian, etc. Better than the silly convention used by some Americans (also a pretty mixed bag of ethnicities) who insist on identifying themselves as Afro-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc., instead of just plain old Americans. Most Americans take pride in the generic term, "Americans" as a unifying identifier; it is too bad that the history of your country has not afforded you the same convention.

sfjohns67
27-05-2004, 10:40
Kniga be layin' down da word, kine!

Filimon
27-05-2004, 12:30
Originally posted by Insane Squeezer
Exactly. I am а Russian citizen (россиянин) but I am not русский. That is, I don't want to be confused with the русские on the ground that I bear bloody Russian passport like they do.

Well then speak for yourself, not for the rest of the people in the country. I don't mind being called any of those and I am only half Russian

Maine Surfer
27-05-2004, 14:39
Darn!

All I meant was to address people here and ask for advise. I understand there are two kinds of people here: Russians and Expats. If you are not Russian, then you are expat, if not expat, call yourself whatever you want, and don't get offended. I'm Russian, but consider myself expat living in a foreign country. I have no problem whatsoever when somebody calls me Russki, Americanets, Yankee, or whatever.

SVL
27-05-2004, 16:09
Originally posted by kniga
it is too bad that the history of your country has not afforded you the same convention.

Incorrect. Most Russians take pride in the generic term Russians.
Looks like Insane Squeezer is an exception.
Enthically, I`m not more then just 20% Russian, but I don`t care:)

nokia99
27-05-2004, 16:15
better you'd import one from germany directly or have smb professional in that with ref to do it. most used cars you may buy here are with faked km or totally shit. I got all my cars (3) from a guy called dima and he took them streight from germany. never problems and cheaper.

Insane Squeezer
06-06-2004, 00:10
Just wonder if an inmate of a certain prison feels proudly when free outsiders refer to him adding a "tag- name" of that prison?

Say, the name of a prison is Russia.:(

Viagra Girl
06-06-2004, 00:15
Originally posted by Filimon
Well then speak for yourself, not for the rest of the people in the country. I don't mind being called any of those and I am only half Russian
Agreed!
By the way is my Cat Russian?

Zephyr
06-06-2004, 04:08
The only time I have observed people reticent about being called "Russki" here in this country(people who spoke Russian and because of that I addressed them in Russian) were Jews. They have always been quick to point out that even though they were "from" Russia they are not Russian. Which seemed right to me.

Insane Squeezer
06-06-2004, 16:04
Originally posted by Zephyr
The only time I have observed people reticent about being called "Russki" here in this country(people who spoke Russian and because of that I addressed them in Russian) were Jews.

Agree about Jews.

However, my Mom is ethnic Russian in her tenth kin and she nevertheless hates Russia and the Russians to the bottom of her heart. She used to talk to me and my brother: "Boys, when you will be adults, use any chance to leave this dirty wild counrty". This was a reason she married my Dad -- she says, only not to marry a Russian man. She hoped he would take her away from this country.

However, she did a huge mistake, because though he is formally Jewish but he believes that Russia is a country no worse or better than any other. It is always fun to listen to their arguments, when Dad speakes out FOR Russia and Mom speaks AGAINST it (it is supposed to be vice versa, isn't it?)

My brother lives in Australia now.
I got my Canadian PR card in 2002 and hope to get a passport earlier or later.

Our mother was happy when me and my brother left Russia.
Our father shrugged.

So one's national feelings are not all depend on one's ethnicity.

Viagra Girl
06-06-2004, 19:02
Originally posted by Zephyr
The only time I have observed people reticent about being called "Russki" here in this country(people who spoke Russian and because of that I addressed them in Russian) were Jews. They have always been quick to point out that even though they were "from" Russia they are not Russian. Which seemed right to me.
I am Jewish and I concider myself as Russian. I recollect about my Jewish consciousness only dealing with anti-Semites and if my face should be beaten. In my every day life I don`t make any difference between peoples` origine. I do not care. I am Moskvichka - this is my nationality.

Boris-Kachakokof
06-06-2004, 19:06
I'm half Jewish.........

sUbsTANce
06-06-2004, 19:21
Originally posted by sevan
Maine, I don't think that there are any places to buy cheap clothes in Moscow. :(

However, there is an OK place called "Diskont" on Kuznetsky Most that has some very nice clothes at more or less normal prices for more or less expensive clothes. I would say that the "discount" at Diskont makes the designer clothes there basically priced the same as they would be in the US or Europe. As opposed to 2-3 times more expensive - which are normal Moscow prices. Worth checking out.

i think the Centre Diskont on Savvinskaya Naberejnaya is much MUCH better! The one on Kuznetsky Most sucks, its too small, not much choice. good luck!

Zephyr
06-06-2004, 19:31
Semetic ethnicity is not Russian ethnicity prosta. This is exactly my point, and the Jews point also.

Viagra Girl
07-06-2004, 00:47
As I told I am 100 % Jewish and this is not my point... Or do you mean a big nose?

Zephyr
07-06-2004, 02:19
Actually You didn't understand that I was talking about how the price of tea in China relates to the position of Jupiter during the winter equanox.

Insane Squeezer
07-06-2004, 05:08
Originally posted by girlWithACat
I am Moskvichka - this is my nationality.

Isn't this the reason why non-Moscouvites cannot stand Moscow residents?

Insane Squeezer
07-06-2004, 05:21
Guys, it seems you persuaded me and helped to sort out my mind.

Perhaps, I feel no bitter feelings toward the Russians as an ethnic group. Rather, I feel myself highly uncomfortable living among the people of the different social strata. My parents are highly educated Western-minded and Western-bound people, but they (and me) have to live in the lower-class environment all our life. Naturally, in this country nearly all of our neighbours are Russian. So maybe it happened that I transformed my hostility to the working class heroes to the Russians as a whole?

Zephyr
07-06-2004, 06:39
A working class hero is something to be
John Lennon

Viagra Girl
07-06-2004, 10:50
Originally posted by Zephyr
Actually You didn't understand that I was talking about how the price of tea in China relates to the position of Jupiter during the winter equanox.
So would you be so kind to explain once more time?

Viagra Girl
07-06-2004, 11:00
Originally posted by Insane Squeezer
Isn't this the reason why non-Moscouvites cannot stand Moscow residents?
Definitely not. I am not Luzkov or Putin. And by the way they can - to own a property for example.

Viagra Girl
07-06-2004, 11:19
Originally posted by Insane Squeezer
Guys, it seems you persuaded me and helped to sort out my mind.

Perhaps, I feel no bitter feelings toward the Russians as an ethnic group. Rather, I feel myself highly uncomfortable living among the people of the different social strata. My parents are highly educated Western-minded and Western-bound people, but they (and me) have to live in the lower-class environment all our life. Naturally, in this country nearly all of our neighbours are Russian. So maybe it happened that I transformed my hostility to the working class to the Russians as a whole?
I lived in many countries and had no idea abot ethnic origin of people around, but yes they were and are of the same social level and higly educated. As for me common nationality is not a perfect glue for building relations, more over it can separate people. National selfestim or national idea - yes, it can unite, but common language is easier to find with the person of the same kidney.

SVL
07-06-2004, 14:02
Originally posted by Insane Squeezer
My parents are highly educated Western-minded and Western-bound people... So maybe it happened that I transformed my hostility to the working class to the Russians as a whole?

So may be you aren`t educated at all? Highly educated people do not judge others by their nationality or social cl**** and they do not teach their kids to be hostile to others just because they are of the lower class.

Insane Squeezer
08-06-2004, 04:44
I don't give a shit for what nationality or social class are the people next door unless they vomit in the elevator, throw litter in the entrance and let their dogs giving shit on the stairs we -- unfortunately -- share.

Toofuses
08-06-2004, 08:40
Preach it, my brother - couldn't agree with you more!

Zephyr
08-06-2004, 09:08
Insane Squeezer squeeze on my man and live like you think and feel. To hell with the rest.