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Alistair
27-05-2008, 18:57
I think it's finally time to quit this country after 8 years.

I've been trying to renew my work permit - doing everything by the book, but it turns out there are already enough foreigners in Moscow and they won't issue anymore permits.

Some time ago I couldn't get the temporary residence visa as my wife's flat is state owned and if I was to be registered there it would be below the officially allowed limit for allowed metres per person. In reality only one person lives there though.

So, the fact that my daughter was born (reducing the number of metres per person) means that I am not allowed to stay in the country.

What sort of a country is this? What about simple human rights - why do we have to go through all these ridiculous procedures?

ezik
19-08-2008, 19:30
You don't need to be registered at your wife's place in order to get a residence permit. You just need to be registered somewhere (not a hotel, of course), for example the place where you live, and make sure you are still registered there when:
- applying for a Temp Res
- when receiving the Temp Res
- when registering the Temp Res at your local UFMS.

Don't forget: it cannot be a fake address, because you'll have to show the amenities bill.

Now, it shouldn't be too much of a problem finding a place to get registered. Your wife and her family probably know people who live in a building that is about to be broken down and they'll be happy to have as much people registered on their place as possible, as the size of their new place depends on the amount of registered people.

So, get a single entry 3 mth business visa and a new one each time it is over. But get things started as soon as you can.

So where were you registered all the time?

MELODY
19-08-2008, 19:44
I think it's finally time to quit this country after 8 years.

I've been trying to renew my work permit - doing everything by the book, but it turns out there are already enough foreigners in Moscow and they won't issue anymore permits.

Some time ago I couldn't get the temporary residence visa as my wife's flat is state owned and if I was to be registered there it would be below the officially allowed limit for allowed metres per person. In reality only one person lives there though.

So, the fact that my daughter was born (reducing the number of metres per person) means that I am not allowed to stay in the country.

What sort of a country is this? What about simple human rights - why do we have to go through all these ridiculous procedures?


i'm curious to know what kind of work you've been doing that allowed an 8-yr stay, but no longer is enough to secure a work visa. also, i'm a bit confused about the daughter's birth affecting square meters when you said the flat was ALREADY under the minimum with you and your wife registered there. (or did your daughter take your spot?) please explain. i find it very interesting.

Alistair
19-08-2008, 19:54
Well, I had a work visa and they wouldn't renew it for a totally ridiculous reason - it's nothing to do with the kind of work. It's simply because my company's quota for foreigners for that year was full up - I had already filled up the quota of 1 myself, then my work permit ran out and they wouldn't give me another one because the quota had already been used. My company should have applied for a larger quota I suppose - but it's the first time they had done this and weren't aware of all the rules.

Then, yes, becasue my daughter was born - there isn't enough space for me to be registered. And, it's not so easy to find a Russian willing to do this for you. The agency fee is about $1000 per year for this type of registration.

So, I just got a 12 moonth business visa and have to spend some time away.

ezik
19-08-2008, 20:13
Well, I had a work visa and they wouldn't renew it for a totally ridiculous reason - it's nothing to do with the kind of work. It's simply because my company's quota for foreigners for that year was full up - I had already filled up the quota of 1 myself, then my work permit ran out and they wouldn't give me another one because the quota had already been used. My company should have applied for a larger quota I suppose - but it's the first time they had done this and weren't aware of all the rules.

Then, yes, becasue my daughter was born - there isn't enough space for me to be registered. And, it's not so easy to find a Russian willing to do this for you. The agency fee is about $1000 per year for this type of registration.

So, I just got a 12 moonth business visa and have to spend some time away.

So, where were you registered? At a hotel? You must be registered somewhere, if you already spent so much time in Moscow.

And you'd better ask friends and family if you can register at theirs. Wouldn't trust an agency with a registration on which a Temp Res application depends. Probably no agency can provide you with a place on which they would allow you to be registered more or less permanently.

As Bels often comments: the spouse is the best agency.

Alistair
19-08-2008, 20:19
Of course I've tried all near relations and friends. My visa agency takes care of my registration as they invited me, that's no problem.

This more permanent type of registration is trickier.

Bels
19-08-2008, 20:46
Forget the agencies apart from invitations of business visas. Somehow you need to find another employer who is used to employing foreigners, and is confident of employing you legally. I didn't notice what profession you are in. So my question is. Are you easily employable in Russia with your profession?

Whatever! short hours whatever! get that work permit from an employer, and no agencies!

Next step? Go to FMS with your wife and apply for TRP. It's the only way.

MELODY
19-08-2008, 20:48
Of course I've tried all near relations and friends. My visa agency takes care of my registration as they invited me, that's no problem.

This more permanent type of registration is trickier.

i still don't get where you (all 3 of you)have been living all this time. could you please give a direct answer? (we cannot report you for immigration violations or anything: you have anonymity here. so, just tell us.)

Bels
19-08-2008, 20:51
You say that your wife' flat is state owned. Many or most Russians have managed to get their flats personally owned.

If you can go through this process of having this flat privately owned, you will solve many problems in getting TRP.

Bels
19-08-2008, 20:56
i still don't get where you (all 3 of you)have been living all this time. could you please give a direct answer? (we cannot report you for immigration violations or anything: you have anonymity here. so, just tell us.)

A state owned flat, and that can be a problem. There is a better chance for TRP if they can purchase the flat at a favourable government price.

I think it's a little bit like England, whaen all government council tenents were encouraged to buy the government rented houses at a cheap price, another Maggie Thatcher policy :)

Alistair
19-08-2008, 21:01
They should do that, but my parents in law are divorced and can't agree with each other.

My best option is to apply for another work visa, but after the last experience I'm in no rush to try it again. I don't want to change company.

Bels
19-08-2008, 21:09
But no permit, no company. Do you have a choice. On reading about about the big boy BP scenario, with top managers incuding the one and only director having a problem, what chance have you got.

You need to find another job with a permit, unless your current employer can sort out their problems for you.

And no agents as you will be ripped off with some illegal papers!

Alistair
19-08-2008, 21:46
I still work for the same company, who are now more experienced at applying for work visas since they have done it once before (albeit unsuccefully).

Registration is not a problem in this case as I can be registered at my company's address.

The main problem is that I have to come here on a 3 month single entry visa, and if they decide not to give me the work permit everything gets screwed up again.

Bels
19-08-2008, 22:23
I still work for the same company, who are now more experienced at applying for work visas since they have done it once before (albeit unsuccefully).

Registration is not a problem in this case as I can be registered at my company's address.

The main problem is that I have to come here on a 3 month single entry visa, and if they decide not to give me the work permit everything gets screwed up again.

I'm hearing this time and time again, and the problems appear to be increasing for us expata. So your saying that your company is used to employing expats, yet there is increasingly a problem for them with this damn quota system!

I do hope you eventually get your work permit, otherwise look for a deal with another company, even if it's work only a few hours a week, but get that work permit. Because you are married here, perhaps a family, and you need to be able to settle long enough to sort out your other problem of getting this TRP.

It's a shame, as we hear the Russian government constantly state that they have changed the laws to make it easier for you :) And what happens!! The laws become another bigger pain in the a** for expats. How's that for sarcasm.

Please keep us posted, as I really do hope your company sorts out you work permit problem, as that will be one barrier out of the way for you.

I don't honestly know what you can do about getting your flat privately owned if your inlaws don't agree. I've been discussing it with my wife, and yes it appears to be a problem. Hopefully a solution on this one can be worked out eventually.

ezik
20-08-2008, 11:40
The law becomes a big pain, mostly because we were allowed for such a long time to travel on convenient ME Business Visa, even if we only had personal reasons to be here.

However, the new visa rules (especially 90/180) were effective January 15th 2007. And in October 2007, the Russian government gave 'complex situations' like a lot of us have, a break, by making the law ony retroactive for visas issued after October 17th, 2007. The new rules are pretty much the same as they are in the EU, because of the treaty that EU and RU signed in May 2007 (effective June 2007). And they are not so new. They have been in effect for 19 months now!

Alistair, ask your company on which address you are registered and who else is registered there. Then, don't even ask, but tell them, that you will use that address for your residence permit application and that you expect them to provide you with amenities papers etc when this becomes actual. As long as you are on a business visa here, your company has the obligation to make sure you are registered properly. Otherwise, they get fined big time.

Bels
20-08-2008, 14:38
The law becomes a big pain, mostly because we were allowed for such a long time to travel on convenient ME Business Visa, even if we only had personal reasons to be here.

However, the new visa rules (especially 90/180) were effective January 15th 2007. And in October 2007, the Russian government gave 'complex situations' like a lot of us have, a break, by making the law ony retroactive for visas issued after October 17th, 2007. The new rules are pretty much the same as they are in the EU, because of the treaty that EU and RU signed in May 2007 (effective June 2007). And they are not so new. They have been in effect for 19 months now!

Alistair, ask your company on which address you are registered and who else is registered there. Then, don't even ask, but tell them, that you will use that address for your residence permit application and that you expect them to provide you with amenities papers etc when this becomes actual. As long as you are on a business visa here, your company has the obligation to make sure you are registered properly. Otherwise, they get fined big time.


Good point.