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View Full Version : Foreign Spies on the Rise



Poika
23-04-2004, 21:21
http://www.mosnews.com/feature/2004/04/09/spies.shtml

IRS_Runner
24-04-2004, 07:22
Are there any spies here on Expat.ru? c'mon don't be shy eh :D

Jet
24-04-2004, 12:22
No, no spies, the agency just reads thru expat.ru and realizes there is no spy material what-so-ever just a bunch of internet punks :D

Ghost
25-04-2004, 04:19
That article is generally a bunch of horseshit.

sevan
25-04-2004, 10:00
I liked the last paragraph - "But Russias Federal Security Service (FSB) is eager to reach out to any Russian who has been courted by foreign spies: Russian citizens who work with foreign intelligence can call an FSB hotline to become double agents. The FSBs official website assures them confidentiality is guaranteed."

Yeah, we'll keep it TOTALLY confidential when we hold you indefinitely for interrogation in an isolation cell 20 stories underground in Lyubyanka.

sevan
25-04-2004, 10:02
Sorry, the journalism here just really gets to me sometimes....

MosNews - bringing Russian journalism to new lows.

MosNews - we're one of the reasons why you don't believe journalists.

MosNews - another argument FOR censorship.

MosNews - because journalism and professionalism end with "-ism", we can't possibly do both!

ReturnOfBroadmoor
25-04-2004, 10:03
April Fools Day is April 1. I do not know why that article shows a date of April 9.

polly
25-04-2004, 10:22
well i dunno about that. the CIA recruits at my institute. and they are OHHHH so interested in those of us who are in Russian-related programs. same goes for DEA and DoS.

Ghost
25-04-2004, 10:58
Polly, come on now please. If they actively recruit, and YOU know that (and you post it here), there's no way that any of those people will ever be successful players (NOC or otherwise). And what institute is it you work at that would be of interest to DEA? DEA's major problem is with Central and South America. They have little interest (and budget allowance) for Eastern Europe.

Sevan - excellent slogans. They all work, in my opinion.

-Ghost

polly
25-04-2004, 11:11
it's not a "working" institute, it's an academic institute. (google MIIS.) DEA is all over Miami and other major US "ports." If they don't care, why did they contact me unsolicited? I think you are slightly misguided as far as their interest in "eastern europe" is concerned. the infamous and over-exaggerated russian mafia is a BFD over here.
(and i never said the CIA was a successful bunch... ) ;)
"any of those people" ??? ahem.
ok dude. i'm not gonna try an change your mind...

Ghost
25-04-2004, 20:10
1. You need to be more specific on MIIS. Giving me four letters to Google resulted in about 56,300 results - 56,299 more than I have the time to look at.

2. The only possible reason DEA would want to play in Russia would be to stop Afghan heroin, particulary through it's supposed route in Tajikistan. Depending on your institute, I suppose they could be looking for Russian speaking individuals as a method of planting them in CIS countries to monitor trafficking. But if that is so, it is still not to spy on their own country - which is what the original point of this topic was, and what I still maintain to be horseshit.

So once again, let me restate what I said several posts ago:

If CIA or any other foreign intelligence agency actively recruits members from your institute for the purpose of spying on their own country (Russia in this case), and you're aware of this (and posting it on expat.ru), you can bet that Russia's various security forces know about it as well - making any recruit from your institute pretty much worthless for the usage of betraying his/her country.

Secondly, without further clarification on what MIIS is, I still remain curious as to why DEA would "contact you unsolicited" unless - again - it's purely for language purposes. But not to spy on Russia. The DEA has no interest in spying on Russia, nor is qualified to do so.


(and i never said the CIA was a successful bunch... )


CIA is a pretty good organization as long as you keep Langley out of it. :)

Ned Kelly
25-04-2004, 21:05
From my limited insights a lot of people overrate the intelligence of the intelligence agencies - FSB and CIA.

And what's to stop Polly posting on the site that she was approached? That's her decision.

sevan
25-04-2004, 21:34
Monterey Institute of International Studies

www.miis.edu

From what I know, a pretty well known language training school for, uh, "defense purposes." Among other things. I have a friend studying there who plans to become a Russian language teacher.

An American arrested in Voronezh a few years ago for marijuana possesion was accused of (or at least it was hinted at) being a spy and the fact that he studied at MIIS was one of the reasons why.

Ghost
25-04-2004, 22:23
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
And what's to stop Polly posting on the site that she was approached? That's her decision.

I'm not saying she should not post. I'm speaking English right?

I'm saying that if Polly knows about it, then you know Russian intelligence services know about it. That makes it pointless to recruit there, since a graduate of there would immediately be suspect. Now, I think Polly only stated that the DEA recruits there. If so, then that's fine - they're looking for language skills - not for spies.

The article that started this stupid thread was talking about how Russians are being recruited to spy on their own country. I'm sure to some extent that happens, just as it happens in reverse or any country in the world. But the article states that it's on the rise and quite common. I say hogwash.

Clear?

DaveUKagain
25-04-2004, 22:23
Funnily enough, I *did* apply to MI5 once. Honestly. They turned me down due to lack of a completely checkable work history - I`d been working abroad. Go figure. :D

DaveUKagain
25-04-2004, 22:24
Nope, wasn`t as a spy, before you ask. :D

http://www.mi5.gov.uk/ - recently had a large recruitment drive. All you wannabe James Bonds just missed it......

Ned Kelly
26-04-2004, 01:05
Originally posted by Ghost
I'm not saying she should not post. I'm speaking English right?

I'm saying that if Polly knows about it, then you know Russian intelligence services know about it. That makes it pointless to recruit there, since a graduate of there would immediately be suspect. Now, I think Polly only stated that the DEA recruits there. If so, then that's fine - they're looking for language skills - not for spies.

The article that started this stupid thread was talking about how Russians are being recruited to spy on their own country. I'm sure to some extent that happens, just as it happens in reverse or any country in the world. But the article states that it's on the rise and quite common. I say hogwash.

Clear?

well, you try hard with your english. i can see that 2004 is the year the overpaid, uptight, self-important expat american returns to moscow.

anyway, my point is that the fsb knows where the cia generally recruits its people and vise versa. it's hardly a secret.

DaveUKagain
26-04-2004, 01:12
It`s not just the DEA, Ghost and Polly - all security services (MI5 included) have a staff comprised mainly of linguists and analysts. Fellas with cameras in their old school ties are a bit of a rarity nowadays. ;-)))) - and - yep, I can agree with you that not many Russians`ll be recruited by Western Intelligence - how credible is an agent if he`s from the country he`s supposed to be spying on ?

natalia_apple
26-04-2004, 01:25
Dave's new avatar looks great! And with his knowledge and intelligence, he very well can be a spy and we'll never know it....

DaveUKagain
26-04-2004, 01:54
A sort of Mata Hairy, y`mean, Nat ? :D Secretly spying on Post Soviet hairpiece design ??

natalia_apple
26-04-2004, 02:23
I have a lot of hair of different colours!

DaveUKagain
26-04-2004, 02:24
Do MI5 know about this ??? :D

natalia_apple
26-04-2004, 02:25
well, I display it all the time...

polly
26-04-2004, 06:34
they recruit lotsa places and are very open about it. plus they are looking for more than just agents.
here's an ad that was in the NYT online several months ago. =)

Ghost
26-04-2004, 07:54
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
well, you try hard with your english. i can see that 2004 is the year the overpaid, uptight, self-important expat american returns to moscow.

anyway, my point is that the fsb knows where the cia generally recruits its people and vise versa. it's hardly a secret. ]

Ned, if you tried less on your insults (which suck and are unoriginal) and more on reading comprehension, you'd finally realize that we're stating/arguing the exact same point.

Bravo.

Ghost
26-04-2004, 08:08
Oh, and Polly - that poster doesn't prove anything other than the CIA wants Asian speaking people to apply.

Maybe I need to go to the language center to brush up on my English or something, because I'm just not communicating my one point clear enough (though I've said it 3 times now). My one point: The article posted in the thread started is BS. That's it. There isn't an epidemic of Russians being recruited to spy on Russia. That's it!

Watch someone take that same statement, rearrange the words and argue it back to me.

Limitchik
26-04-2004, 08:49
Originally posted by Ghost
The article that started this stupid thread was talking about how Russians are being recruited to spy on their own country. I'm sure to some extent that happens, just as it happens in reverse or any country in the world. But the article states that it's on the rise and quite common. I say hogwash.

First of all, Dave and Natalia, would you get a room for chrissake ? Or keep it in the love and romance folder ? I just had breakfast. Try not to make it come back up. Subtlety, anyone ?

Second, Ghost, I'd like to comment on your 'hogwash' claim. I'm not an agent, never played one on TV, and haven't been approached (Bastards - I'd like to know why not !).

But, almost all of the recent spy stories have been situations similar to what the article is referring. Edmund Pope was probably the most notable; but Sutyagin certainly deserves mentioning (the guy he talked to was former military intelligence by his own admission in an article from the Moscow Times last week); and an American female diplomat was caught (after her phone was bugged) in what had to be one of the stupidest recruiting conversations I'd ever heard. It was rebroadcast on Channel One here. The US basically came out and admitted Pope being a spy. The FSB's fears are certainly not unfounded

Anyway, given the immense difficulty and extreme rarity of Americans being able to speak fluently as a native language, it's not surprising that the intelligence community's main tactic would be to recruit foreign assets (can we make a distinction between assets and agents ?) Polly's institute is in the US, by the way, and this article is clearly referring to academic and research institutes HERE. Not a bad strategy considering the close connections they have to military, scientific, and political organizations

I don't think the main point is about NOCs (which wouldn't be the major concentration or percentage of agents anyway) . I think it's about assets acquired in former Soviet academies and institutes. It doesn't seem the least bit unplausible to me.

I have no idea about DEA or NIS and all that. I'm just claiming that the article is wholely logical and in line with recent spying controversies.

Big Kiss,
Limitchik

polly
26-04-2004, 08:53
Originally posted by Ghost
Oh, and Polly - that poster doesn't prove anything other than the CIA wants Asian speaking people to apply.

Maybe I need to go to the language center to brush up on my English or something, because I'm just not communicating my one point clear enough (though I've said it 3 times now). My one point: The article posted in the thread started is BS. That's it. There isn't an epidemic of Russians being recruited to spy on Russia. That's it!

Watch someone take that same statement, rearrange the words and argue it back to me.



looks like you are still in "sniper mode"? or perhaps you have transitioned to "big stick up your ass mode."
let us know if you need any help with that.
Have a nice day.

Ghost
26-04-2004, 08:57
Limit, first of all - let me thank you for stating your point in a clear, concise and well written manner. That's what makes for good debates. Second, let me thank you for stating a different point rather than throwing mine back at me again.

In the intelligence business, it's always better to have the original than try to make your own. Ie, it's always better to get a foreign national - hopefully already in place in an organization - rather than to try to plant one of your own. But this article states it is on the rise. And it is that precise point that I think is BS. It is no more prevelant than it was years ago. The article - like much of the Russian press - drums up an old issue on a potentially flashy subject for the sole intent of getting a rise out of the public on probably a particularly slow news day. The only backup the article really quotes is "a highly placed source in the Russian secret service". Alrighty then.

-Ghost

Ghost
26-04-2004, 08:59
Originally posted by polly
looks like you are still in "sniper mode"? or perhaps you have transitioned to "big stick up your ass mode."
let us know if you need any help with that.
Have a nice day.

At least you brought further evidence to the table. Wait, no you didn't. You're just as effective as Ned.

Only the first statement was to you, incidently. The rest was to Ned's taking my argument and saying the same thing.

-Ghost

Limitchik
26-04-2004, 09:09
Originally posted by Ghost
In the intelligence business, it's always better to have the original than try to make your own. Ie, it's always better to get a foreign national - hopefully already in place in an organization - rather than to try to plant one of your own. But this article states it is on the rise. And it is that precise point that I think is BS. It is no more prevelant than it was years ago. The article - like much of the Russian press - drums up an old issue on a potentially flashy subject for the sole intent of getting a rise out of the public on probably a particularly slow news day. The only backup the article really quotes is "a highly placed source in the Russian secret service". Alrighty then.

-Ghost

Well, I guess that makes pretty good sense too. Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'm gonna agree with you. And, now that you say it, I seem to recall hearing that Eastern Europe recruitment is down from what it used to be (which might explain why they haven't contacted me, potential agent extraordinaire).

I guess I'll go back to my fence and sit on it until someone else can provide anything substantiating the article that would sway my easily influenced self to argue the opposite.

Cheers !
Limitchik

Ghost
26-04-2004, 09:16
Limitchik, the spy who shagged me.

DaveUKagain
26-04-2004, 09:56
Originally posted by Limitchik
First of all, Dave and Natalia, would you get a room for chrissake ? Or keep it in the love and romance folder ? I just had breakfast. Try not to make it come back up. Subtlety, anyone ?



LOL !! We were just on at the same time, Limitchik, and I do that with all the girls, y`know. ;-))))))

natalia_apple
26-04-2004, 14:29
Originally posted by Limitchik
First of all, Dave and Natalia, would you get a room for chrissake ? Or keep it in the love and romance folder ? I just had breakfast. Try not to make it come back up. Subtlety, anyone ?


if it is, as you say, love and romance, why is it so bad for your digestion?

Poika
26-04-2004, 20:14
...you are so annoying! Go get a life! Get laid or something!

natalia_apple
26-04-2004, 23:40
go wash your dirty mouth,
I understand how much getting laid means for you,
havent had it in a while, thats why such agression, eh?

Poika
27-04-2004, 14:27
Damn you're right I haven't gotten laid in a while...
...but at least I am not annoying.

ReturnOfBroadmoor
27-04-2004, 15:09
Originally posted by Ghost
Oh, and Polly - that poster doesn't prove anything other than the CIA wants Asian speaking people to apply.

Maybe I need to go to the language center to brush up on my English or something, because I'm just not communicating my one point clear enough (though I've said it 3 times now). My one point: The article posted in the thread started is BS. That's it. There isn't an epidemic of Russians being recruited to spy on Russia. That's it!

BS is an understatement. Suffice it to say that the author is known to me.

natalia_apple
28-04-2004, 00:13
Originally posted by Poika
Damn you're right I haven't gotten laid in a while...
...but at least I am not annoying.

sorry, Poika
I'll try to improve

polly
28-04-2004, 00:32
Originally posted by Ghost
At least you brought further evidence to the table. Wait, no you didn't. You're just as effective as Ned.

-Ghost

what do you want evidence of, butthook?

god forbid i post a slightly irrelevant little ad for the amusement of others (obviously you are incapable of being amused).

i'll tell you what people told me last week: effing lighten up.

Moscow Wolf
28-04-2004, 06:23
I thought we were on the decline!

Ghost
28-04-2004, 11:51
Butthook, eh? Your creativity knows no bounds, apparently.

If I misunderstood your attempt to be "amusing", I apologize. I thought we were having a debate about the use of spies from your school. I n'er expected humor to be thrown in there. You sure tricked me!

uninformed
01-05-2004, 08:35
Shocking! Spying on the rise?? I thought when the Russian government kicked out all those Peace Corp "volunteers" they solved the problem of the American government finding out what the Ruskies are up to. We know they weren't REALLY teaching Russians to speak English or how to operate their own businesses but were developing western sympathies which threaten the very foundation of Putin's government.

But...now that they were thrown out (15 months ago) I would think the level of spying is on the decrease. Maybe another agency - such as the United Nations Development Program or Committee on Refugees is taking up the slack and should be shipped out on the next train to Belorussia?!

trackhat
01-05-2004, 15:05
Most intelligence agents don't do the clandestine shit - they just read Russian newspapers online in Langley - the good ones become Oil consultants at CERA and other such places.

VOLDEMAR
07-05-2004, 14:04
The Central Intelligence Agency, there is a contradiction in terms!!! its just like the National Security Agency or no such agency they are all a bunch of crazy American`s trying to show just cause for the sake of United States Security!!!

VOLDEMAR
07-05-2004, 14:08