PDA

View Full Version : Hypocrisy in general



stefania2003
12-08-2003, 21:00
It's probably getting a bit boring this 'Russian women' theme but I wanted to add a serious note. When I was a child I had a miserable time as my family were marked out as 'Russki immigrants' and 'bloody foreigners' and we even had problems with the security services. Then I found out that I could make friends here through Communist organisations and started to come out here ages ago after interviews at the Soviet Embassy who were satisfied re my credentials and family roots here. Years after the USSR was dissolved, you guys all start to flood out here and heap praises on Russian and Slavic women. Isn't this hypocrisy? Where was all this bonhomie when I got bullied as a kid and weren't the Americans the most vociferous and anti-Russian during the Cold War? I suppose you can plead ignorance of the folk here for your previous attitudes but to be honest, even when I came here years ago people didn't have such silly attitudes to Westerners. Russians have long memories and know who their friends are and to this day no-one I know, and this is even amongst very young people, like or trust Americans. So all this 'Russian women' praise here to me seems shallow and hard to believe. If you'd wanted to reach out to people here you could have done so years ago as I did.

neilmcg
12-08-2003, 22:12
The "Russian women" thing is only the next stage of the Cold War mentality. Now that they believe they have "conquered", the next stage - following the advice of famous military leader Genghis Khan - the next thing is to take the lands, goods and women of the conquered.

If you have ever received junk mail from any of the "Russian Brides" websites (and you only have to be moderately active online connected with Russia for your name to be harvested) you'll note some of the claims they make about "Russian girls":

1) Russian girls are "grateful" . In other words, it doesn't matter if you a friendless, obese loser with no socialisation skills at all - just the fact you are American means that you won't have to make any attempts whatsoever. In other words - you've bought her as a slave.

2) Russian girls are family-oriented This especially appeals to NeoCon Cold Warriors who think a woman's place is in the kitchen, or nursing the children of his failed marriages.

3) Russian girls are modest and undemanding This especially appeals to cheapskates, tire-kickers, and men with few personal achievements or attractions.

4) Russian girls are beautiful . OK, well this is, actually, true. But don't call me selective in my arguments, eh? :-)

You'll notice that the other main nations that these Agencies like to sell (ooops, I mean "recommend") brides from are.... those with whom America has engaged in military combat. Vietnamese brides are another profitable market... for all the same reasons. The guy feels he can strut-around like a generous "victor" and nobly allow a beautiful woman to marry him, and be his helpmate in his challenging job pumping gas at a gas-station 230 miles south of Boise, Idaho. (I actually know a girl from the FSU who married someone of exactly that profession and location. He's a mere 300-lb'er, apparently).

Please note that I am not describing in the above either foreigners who are in a successful relationship with a woman from the ex-USSR or women from the ex-USSR.

I am talking about the hype industry which manipulates the pig-ignorance, chauvinism and imagined "superiority" of their target audience (whom ultimately it financially manipulates knowing that in reality they are fools, braggarts and cowards) into creating the non-phenomenon artificially invented as "Russian girls".

Coming soon to a website near you - "Iraqi girls".

I have met (not as a client, I might add) a "Russian girl" whose name is Natasha, in Rostov-On-Don. She sells her personal address for around $100 "Agency Fee", but then charges $180 per bouquet to deliver flowers to herself and keep the correspondence going. The final sting is "the price of the air ticket to the USA so that we can be together, my love" before she acquires a new email address and starts over with the next sucker. "Natasha" weighs around 120kg, is bald, and has a large black beard.

N.

stefania2003
12-08-2003, 22:57
very good:)) I wonder why these people dont' all go to the Phillippines though...they are really so tiresome and as I said before, this is all recent and since this company opened up and before that they hated us, and this is what annoys me most. Then they start saying how wonderful we Slavs are and how lovely (true!!) but they didnt' say it before and like I said, I got a LOT of stick for my parents being from this part of the world. I've got a lot of Russian women friends and none of them are interested in Western men especially Americans and those that are candidly admit to using them and laugh at their naiveness. Having said that, there are happy unions with classy and intelligent Western men (like your goodself I imagine!) but cultural compromises have to be made. It is a simple fact that most Slavs are insular and are more comfortable with their own. I dated English men but found myself always more drawn and comfortable with other Slavs and in those days we either met refusniks or Poles or Czechs. Of the Russian women I know who married Brits or Americans, most of them have been unhappy and unsatisfied in the marriages. I simply think we are too different and these silly people on the website just see a pretty face and figure and think no further!

kniga
12-08-2003, 23:41
Neil's case is well and accurately presented (as is often the case, as I am discovering as a realtive newcomer to the expat site), and I'd like to add my two cents' worth in reply to your lament. In the first place, the Cold War was one (fortunately) of a battle of words in which the propaganda spewed out by both the Soviet Union and America was simply prolific and designed to demonize the other side. Americans were ignorant of Russians then and in the main still are today. Further, (we) Americans are incredibly naive for the simple reason that we live a life that is too rich, soft, convenient and wonderful for most people in the world who have not been to America to even begin to imagine. Unfortunately, Americans make the erroneous assumption that everyone lives like they do or wants to, and so we sow the seeds of our own dislike abroad in too many cases.

In the case of the oversexed American males who cruise Internet sites to find Russian girls, these poor lads in the main couldn't make it with the least desireable American girls back home, and so find the compliant attitude of many Russian girls much to their liking and falsely ascribe their "success" to their studly charms. There is a "meat market" in every country and the Internet has just made shopping too convenient. However, the mistaken attitudes on both sides of the cultural and linguistic divide are shared pretty equally. Americans often love their Russian friends, but they don't trust them. Russians are often friendly towards Americans, but also don't trust them. We make fun of each other for our perceived follies, but we are in so many ways mirror images of each other.

It is a shame that your early childhood experiences were so bad, but I have been called "Moscali" in Lvov because I spoke Russian instead of Ukrainian, and so I have been insulted as both an American and a Russian! I quickly got over it, though, and I hope you will, too, as life is too short to sweat the small stuff and too wonderful to waste thinking negative thoughts. !

kniga
13-08-2003, 00:13
, ...

stefania2003
13-08-2003, 00:22
Well said, Kniga! Of course life is too short to lament childhood bad experiences but I simply brought it up because of all these idiots and their 'Russian women' eulogies on these boards. There is no harm in praising the comely delights of the ladies here albeit based largely on false premises but when they have to accompany it by insulting their compatriots this I feel is unacceptable. Well, there are Americans who travel and live abroad and try to understand other cultures and succeed, and they are quite delightful. It seems you are one of them and also one of the more mature (I use this in a flattering way!!) members of this board thank goodness. But the other sort; the classic Ugly American unfortunately gives the rest a bad name as he is so unappealing in his attitude and behaviour and sheer arrogance but every country has types they're not proud of exporting!! Your experience of Lvov was interesting...nationalistic types they are!:)) One of my uncles is from there!:)
I would finally point out that there are no pages of Russian/Ukranian men 'for sale' nor are there expat ladies starting threads about their manly charms (!) on this board so maybe we should do something about that to redress the balance?:))))

2nd
13-08-2003, 00:56
This very well formulated exchange of thoughts deserves a better destiny than to be buried in the archives.

Please, Mr teutonic site master, give it a more central place o the site for new comers to read and try to understand. Maybe it could be a test for membership?

kniga
13-08-2003, 03:08
Stefania, I think I can best wrap up this thread from my viewpoint by simply saying that whether we realize it or not, or even like it or not, we all are unofficial ambassadors representing our own countries wherever we are. I can't do anything about Ugly Americans, but I can represent America with my own best behavior. So, looks like I'll have to refrain from participating in your plan to get some hot new pages going for Russian/Ukrainian males on this and other sites! :-)

geneven
13-08-2003, 04:41
I think it's very interesting that the message that says that no one likes or trusts Americans also chooses the phrase "bloody foreigners" to characterize the attitudes that bother them.

Americans don't use that phrase.

You are talking about over 250 million people; do you think your generalizations are accurate? I don't. There are many Russians in New York where I worked; some of them are becoming Americans. Do you think that by doing so, they are now guilty of the attitudes and hypocracy you attribute to Americans? Would they be among the Americans that Russians don't like or trust?

If this thread is a membership test, please count me out.

legspreader
13-08-2003, 07:11
Like any place ameircan has good and bad people. much like the russia propaganda machine the us had one aimed at the ussr during the cold war. many older americans still think of russia in the cold war metality. does that make it right no but what is is.... so for you take make such generaliztions is not fair i've always been a very welcoming person. i've always had friends of multiple nationalities and have never haboured such thoughts as you've described. so for you to make such comments makes you worse than the people you are lashing out against in my opinion.....

J.D.
13-08-2003, 08:49
I grew up in the era when all that Americans knew of Russia was Boris and Natasha from Bullwinkle. While we had strong negative feelings against the Soviet system/governmet the only negative feeling we had for the people would have been one of pity because we felt that they were prisoners in their own country.

We saw very, very few Russians in the US and when we did see one they held great fascination for us. I find your experience to be a bit odd.

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 09:06
Having actually been ENGAGED to a Russian lady.....

This is all very, very tiring. The fact of the matter is that there are gold diggers out there, clueless foreigners after "mail order brides" - people on both sides actually interested - genuinely interested - in multi-cultural relationships -

- and a great number of "armchair experts" who should just shut the feck up. To be honest. How is it that so many people consider themselves authoritative voices on a subject which involves so many different people and motives.... because they`ve read a glossy magazine, seen an expositional TV programme or met either a fat sweating 50 year old after a teenager - or a little girl after an old man ?

The UK divorce rate is 51%
The divorce rate between UK and Russian couples is 10%

And before any old armchair experts tell me that the girls are trapped in the marriages - balls. For the gold diggers, divorce is the ideal - 50% of the house.

I look forwards to all the interesting replies I`ll get to this post from people who don`t know what they`re talking about.

Dave

PS - yep, I realised that we WERE in love but the cultural differences were so great that she`d have a miserable time over here. We talked it through and she began to understand life in the UK is NOT paradise. Believe it or not, I get CHASED by UK girls here - but - I`m not interested. There IS such a genotype as someone genuinely interested in a multicultural marriage, believe it or not - the standard in the UK is someone single, never married, professional, 37 years old. Forget the glossy magazines and TV programmes selling shock - horror stories about "mail order brides" - do you believe EVERYTHING you read in the papers ???

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 09:09
Originally posted by stefania2003
[Of the Russian women I know who married Brits or Americans, most of them have been unhappy and unsatisfied in the marriages. I simply think we are too different and these silly people on the website just see a pretty face and figure and think no further!
[/B]

Then again, Stesha, you`re not in England, amongst the UK <> Russian community, are you ? ;-))) I am.

Everyone is different. Generalisations make no sense at all when talking about relationships

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 09:11
Originally posted by neilmcg
I have met (not as a client, I might add) a "Russian girl" whose name is Natasha, in Rostov-On-Don. She sells her personal address for around $100 "Agency Fee", but then charges $180 per bouquet to deliver flowers to herself and keep the correspondence going. The final sting is "the price of the air ticket to the USA so that we can be together, my love" before she acquires a new email address and starts over with the next sucker. "Natasha" weighs around 120kg, is bald, and has a large black beard.
.

Neil, I`ve also met shed-loads of NICE Russian ladies and non-sting ones, too. The agencies exist in large numbers to turn a HUGE profit off the gullible. I think you`ll find that ANY industry in Russia works - in some cases - on the same principle - "What can I screw out of this Westerner ? "

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 09:13
Originally posted by neilmcg
I have met (not as a client, I might add) a "Russian girl" whose name is Natasha, in Rostov-On-Don. She sells her personal address for around $100 "Agency Fee", but then charges $180 per bouquet to deliver flowers to herself and keep the correspondence going. The final sting is "the price of the air ticket to the USA so that we can be together, my love" before she acquires a new email address and starts over with the next sucker. "Natasha" weighs around 120kg, is bald, and has a large black beard.
.

Neil, I`ve also met shed-loads of NICE Russian ladies and non-sting ones, too. The agencies exist in large numbers to turn a HUGE profit off the gullible. I think you`ll find that ANY industry in Russia works - in some cases - on the same principle - "What can I screw out of this Westerner ? "

True - there ARE a few good agencies - most are just complete rip offs. Like ALL dating agencies, whether UK <> UK, US <> US , US<>Russia, UK <>Russia, whatever - there is always someone willing to feed you lies so long as the roubles, pounds or dollars keep flowing in,

How DID you get to find about Natasha, Neil - didn`t the date go as planned ? LOL ! ;-))))))))))))

Best regards
Dave

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 09:17
PS To any Russian lady members of Expat.ru reading this-

Sorry, ladies, I am not looking for anyone at the moment - not from Moscow, anyway. My solution to the problem of finding a Russian soul mate is very simple - I fly out to Volgograd every few months, stay with friends, live a little and just see what happens.

The ONLY way to do it. Full stop.

Dave

PPS No, I don`t have the sexual manners of a tomcat, either. ;-))))

PPPS Wish I did, though. ;-))))))))))))

Blackwidow
13-08-2003, 10:13
OK it seems that there are two arguments or rather mis-guided complaints here. I cannot speak for the American fraternity, as personally they are not my cup-of-tea. Being British however, I can state MY view point, which is a fair reflection of the "normal" guy in the UK.

Firstly, our women in our society have taken the equal rights/sexual equality thing too afr and now see relationships like a bsiness, for what they can get from it financially rather than any long term committment....indeed a family life is last thing on their minds, needless to say, this is why 1 in 2 marriages end in faiure!

Secondly, during those "cold" war periods, the hatred by the West was towards the Russian military, not its people. Indeed we were led to feel sorry for the way you were treated e.g. unable to express differing views, unable to buy and eat what you want, etc. I now realise some of this was not true....it was more based on what you could afford to pay and WHO you knew or what you were! As a Brit. I always hoped that Russia would open its mind and heart to the West, even if it remained communist. More importantly was the thought that weapond, in what ever form, should be reduced or eliminated as this was the only way to make for a safer future. The only lies I think we were told by our side, was how strong militarily the USSR was.....it is now apparent, that much was old, decaying and indeed more likely to cause YOUR deaths! Now "friendship" seems to reign, my only worries are Putins idea to re-arm and modernise the Russian military......just as Stalin did (sic). WHY? An interesting fact is any country that has ever LOST a war, always becomes the most powerful economy....Japan, Germany........SO think again Putin, spend the money on what was once a great Agricultural economy....not on weapons!

Finally, it is true there are many agencies and many "strange" foreigners that believe love exists in another country, that because of their apparent belief that you want to "escape", that being 20, attractive and speaking English......you are likely to become a sex slave, just to escape hardship.......but this is not the view of all men and certainly the vast majority of men in the UK do not have this view. There seems to be many that come to Russia, thinking (and maybe it is so), that sex is easy here.....but sex is not love and my opinion of Russian women is the good ones are far to clever to sell themselves for money. Besides I THINK life in Russia is not bad, nothing in the short term can ever be done about "Administartion" and how Laws are followed if ever......but time will change this mentality.......Russians need to stop thinking about themselves and think about WHO they are......a country that has vast land m**** vast resourcs and intelligent people....wgo just need to apply this to the real world and make Russia great after 80 years on creating nothing!

I am married to a wonderful Russian lady, every day I learn something new about her attitude, I married her for love, she loves Russia and it is now my home, my culture.......I realise I have to adapt to be accepted here and learn your culture......My family is now Russian and I am proud of it. Yes, I was patriotic as a Brit. alas not many people are, money rules thier brains, Russia has not reached this level yet...I HOPE, I TRULY HOPE, that one thing never chnages.....that the Russian people do not lose their identity, become unique and the women stay as women!

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 10:17
Originally posted by Blackwidow


I am married to a wonderful Russian lady, every day I learn something new about her attitude, I married her for love, she loves Russia and it is now my home, my culture.......I realise I have to adapt to be accepted here and learn your culture......My family is now Russian and I am proud of it. Yes, I was patriotic as a Brit. alas not many people are, money rules thier brains, Russia has not reached this level yet...I HOPE, I TRULY HOPE, that one thing never chnages.....that the Russian people do not lose their identity, become unique and the women stay as women!

Well said, Hacker. ;-)

From my point of view, I always had a fascination with Russia - my fiancee had a fascination with English culture........ it IS allowable, conceivable and does happen.

Most of the people I`ve found who make negative comments on the subject are actually making unconscious statements about THEIR personalities, by the way. Well, that`s what I`ve generally found.

Dave

neilmcg
13-08-2003, 11:42
Dear Dave

I'm glad you say you are happy.

I lived in the USSR during the Communist era, and I am back here again in Russia now. Funnily enough, every second person in the country is a woman (slightly more, in fact), so I do know just a leeetle bit about the people who are all around me all the time?

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine, although you obviously don't agree? You didn't read my post, and went tearing off on a rant of your own.

MY post was about where the stereotypes of "Russian women" come from. Your series of rants was about something else.

>> Sorry, ladies, I am not looking for anyone at the moment <<

Yeah, yeah, Russian woman are just tearing their knickers off to get into bed with a Brit, eh, Dave?

N.

Ledka
13-08-2003, 12:18
STOP GOSSIPING ABOUT US... WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.......AS WELL AS U R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Intourist
13-08-2003, 12:25
Stephania, I find much of the commentary on Russian women shallow too, but your claim of hypocracy is misplaced. Most of the heaped praise you refer to originates from a particlularly immature and uneducated breed of expat sporting a major inferiority complex compelling him to relate his exploits with the natives to anyone who'll listen.

This general lack of class and self-confidence is indicative of a person who probably would never have encountered anyone from the former SU back home, and hence I see no hypocritical reversal in attitude. Their praise is either genuine and a matter of taste, or serves as a personal re-enforcement of the success of their conquests. Who wants to tell everyone that they "score" with UNattractive women ?

bibliofil
13-08-2003, 12:41
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
Having actually been ENGAGED to a Russian lady.....
...
- and a great number of "armchair experts" who should just shut the feck up. To be honest. How is it that so many people consider themselves authoritative voices on a subject which involves so many different people and motives.... because they`ve read a glossy magazine, seen an expositional TV programme or met either a fat sweating 50 year old after a teenager - or a little girl after an old man ?


Well, having actually been married to an English lady and knowing Russian community in the UK for many years believe I could be sort of an expert on the subj of Russian ladies marrying bloody foreigners.

I have met so many Rus/Brit couples through years. The general observation is that most of the couples who met through the net or in Russia are unequal. Either women are much younger or much more attractive than men. At the same time couples who met in the UK are usually more normal of similar age, similar attractiveness etc And another observation when you ask Russian ladies why they married a foreigner you would get a long list of replies evolving around security, politeness of British men, their ability to provide better life etc Anything but love.

And look at what you have said. May be I am the last romantic here but I believe you should marry only for love. And what do you do you reject all British women only because they are British. Instead you go hunting to Volgograd. You are looking for a "good wife", not for love. :)


PS and believe me - the divorce rate between UK and Russian couples is much higher than 10% :)

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 13:43
Now I know why I don`t bother with *******` pathetic notice boards - No, Neil, Russian women are not tearing their knickers off, I`ve just come out of a long term relationship and I find that a lot of SHARKS get attracted to these conversations and I`ve had instant messages already from some of them.

Rant schmant. I`m entitled to my opinion, you`re entitled to yours, I bow to your superior knowledge of the Brezhnev era and frankly couldn`t give ********what you or anyone else posts on the Expat Forum anymore, which was going downhill fast before they changed it and appears to be disappearing at the same rate also. So. Given that you`re in with the administrators, why not ban me on IP address and - just forget it, eh, Neil ?






Originally posted by neilmcg
Dear Dave

I'm glad you say you are happy.

I lived in the USSR during the Communist era, and I am back here again in Russia now. Funnily enough, every second person in the country is a woman (slightly more, in fact), so I do know just a leeetle bit about the people who are all around me all the time?

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine, although you obviously don't agree? You didn't read my post, and went tearing off on a rant of your own.

MY post was about where the stereotypes of "Russian women" come from. Your series of rants was about something else.

>> Sorry, ladies, I am not looking for anyone at the moment <<

Yeah, yeah, Russian woman are just tearing their knickers off to get into bed with a Brit, eh, Dave?

N.

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 13:48
And look at what you have said. May be I am the last romantic here but I believe you should marry only for love. And what do you do you reject all British women only because they are British. Instead you go hunting to Volgograd. You are looking for a "good wife", not for love. :)


WRONG - I was marrying for LOVE, nothing else. So was she. Just could NOT get to grips with UK culture or language and it is extremely sad.

In the interim, Neil comes along and decides to take a leak on me - ******` grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat, Neil, cheers, mate. Really nice of you.

Come up to Manchester sometime, meet some of the girls here. And THEN you`ll realise why Volgograd - where I have so many friends - is such an attractive proposition.

Mainly because the girls are nicer, kinder, more gentle and more NORMAL than in the UK. What IS it about posters on this board ???? I am not HUNTING anyone or expecting anyone to RIP THEIR KNICKERS off.

Pathetic.

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 13:51
PPS No, I don`t have the sexual manners of a tomcat, either. ;-))))


Oi, Neil, did you miss this comment of mine, earlier ?????? Ripping knickers of Russian girls my *****You are just showing yourself as being someone who jumps to conclusions. In other words. You believe the stereotypes.

Clean your glasses, Grandad. And your mind.

neilmcg
13-08-2003, 14:39
>> So. Given that you`re in with the administrators, why not ban me on IP address and - just forget it, eh, Neil ? <<

Oh really, and since when was I in with the administrators? There's a grease-mark on your jacket - must've been that chip on your shoulder, mate.

Why can't you be bothered with message-boards? Because boring *** like you love to tell others what they ought to think - but they hate to hear other opinions?

N.

stefania2003
13-08-2003, 15:52
Wow, this thread really got people going! Ledka, you are a sweetie, please dont' get aerated! Even before I started this thread (which is actually more about people's false perceptions of Russian females and their attitude to them post-cold War in contrast to during the Cold War) there were masses of silly postings about Russian women on the boards! It was why I started this thread! Plus, my position is unusual having a foot in both camps i.e. having been born in the UK of non-British parents so I was able to see things from both sides which was also why I started this thread. Geneven, I'm not slagging off 250 million Americans so dont get uptight; what I do adhere to however is that Americans in general (I use those two words with extreme care and EMPHASISE them!) are less informed about Russians than Europeans are and their enthusiasm for Russian females is proportionate to their lack of the same in cold War days:) If I offended you personally I do apologise - I certainly didn't intend to:)

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 16:09
Originally posted by neilmcg
>> So. Given that you`re in with the administrators, why not ban me on IP address and - just forget it, eh, Neil ? <<

Oh really, and since when was I in with the administrators? There's a grease-mark on your jacket - must've been that chip on your shoulder, mate.

Why can't you be bothered with message-boards? Because boring *** like you love to tell others what they ought to think - but they hate to hear other opinions?

N.

Yeah yeah, Neil - but I don`t PM people who I disagree with with obscene messages, do I ?

As I said to you just now, I`ll reply to your comments when I finish laughing at you. As for the chip on my shoulder, take the ****` chip factory off yours. Who rattled your cage ?

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 16:16
"Why can't you be bothered with message-boards? Because boring tits like you love to tell others what they ought to think - but they hate to hear other opinions?"

No - because as SOON as any non - Russian on this board says he has a Russian fiancee, along come all the stereotypic comments about Russian girls ripping their knickers off. If you`d bothered to read what I wrote, Neil, you`ll find that I`m not a paid up member of the "abuse devs" crowd and actually, you may recall, lamblasted our old porno photographer who used to come on here. You agreed wholeheartedly with my comments at the time.

The reason why I HATE to post on message boards is that other "boring opinionated **** " such as theirselves tend to come along and bore ME with their opinions. If you disagree with them - they send you lovely PM`s inviting you to **** yourself, don`t they ?

Why not
(a) read what I wrote
(b) realise that my initial post was not directed at you
and
(c) take a ******` powder, Neil ? Before you become the boring old opinionated ** who can`t stand other people`s opinions - that you so warn us about ?

I eagerly await your next obscene PM.

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 16:24
"Opinions are like *******" - everyone has one.

Except I expect to be able to be able to express an opinion without being called one. Look back at the posts here and see who`s out of order.

So I go off on merry little jaunts to diddle Russian girls, do I, Neil? Pathetic.

neilmcg
13-08-2003, 16:29
Congratulations. When a man's as accomplished as you are at making a moron of himself in public.... who needs help from me? :)

Oh, and congratulations on destroying the discussion too, Dave - which was, of course, what you intended all along.

N.

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 16:33
Originally posted by neilmcg
Congratulations. When a man's as accomplished as you are at making a moron of himself in public.... who needs help from me? :)

Oh, and congratulations on destroying the discussion too, Dave - which was, of course, what you intended all along.

N.


Perhaps I should just stick to your policy of sending obscene PM`s an accusing people of trolling ????

Well, Neil - let`s resume the conversation in an adult manner - my point is that it IS possible and in fact highly desireable to marry a Russian woman for love, that all women are different, all the men are different too - it is MORE difficult to achieve this than finding someone at home but infinitely more rewarding when you do ?

And your point is ???

Are we now getting somewhere without anyone accusing anyone of anything and PROVOKING a heated argument ????

bibliofil
13-08-2003, 16:37
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
... my point is that it IS possible and in fact highly desireable to marry a Russian woman for love...

Does it mean that it is not possible and not desirable to marry an Englishwoman for love? Where is logic?

Why not just marry a woman for love and who the hell cares where she came from?

Oleg
13-08-2003, 16:50
Because.......that would make you NOT a saddo....and mean you are an attractive, interesting man capable of finding a girl who loves you!

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 16:57
:-)))))

Hello, Bibliofil ! ;-)

Haa, yes, of course it`s possible to marry an Englishwoman for love. Thing is that all people are different. I studied Russian history and culture at University - I wanted to go there since I was 11, and - well, I finally got the chance a few years ago. I love the people, the culture, the traditions........

As you say, who the hell cares where she came from ? ;-)) Well, to reply - with a multicultural marriage, there are so many wonderful things. When you get the names of the vegetables mixed up, when your wife takes 45 minutes to put her cosmetics on to go shopping - and the shops shut - there is NEVER a dull moment. ;-))))))) It really is a magic experience - something very special - not for everyone, and I do love it very much.

Yes, I can get girlfriends here - serious ones - but the point is that when you have a multicultural relationship you love very much - you`re very, very happy. It`s not for everyone - it can be hard work, but the rewards are wonderful..... and Russian women have so many values which have either been lost in the West or have just no parallels. I`m not talking about women in Moscow or St Pete, here. I`m talking about Russia in general. Generally, more traditionally minded men (I don`t mean chauvanists) but - more - old fashioned men tend to be drawn towards Russian women... oh, I could go on and on and on here, but - can you see what I mean ? Some people are just so attracted by the differences in other peoples` characters - as a result of other people`s cultures. It isn`t all shallow fat Westerners and grabbing Russian girls - there is a world of different reasons out there.

Dave




Originally posted by bibliofil
Does it mean that it is not possible and not desirable to marry an Englishwoman for love? Where is logic?

Why not just marry a woman for love and who the hell cares where she came from?

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 16:59
Originally posted by Oleg
Because.......that would make you NOT a saddo....and mean you are an attractive, interesting man capable of finding a girl who loves you!

So if you meet and fall in love with a Russian girl, you`re a saddo ? I met lots of nice English girls, but there was nothing special there. As Bibliofil says, who CARES where someone comes from ??? ;-))))

neilmcg
13-08-2003, 17:11
There has been some severe misunderstanding in this discussion, and I must take part of the blame for it.

When I wrote about the marriage agencies much earlier in the thread, it may not have been obvious that I was condemning the sad and sick cliches they purvey about "Russian women"... a process they follow in order to make a quick buck from people sad and lonely enough to believe it. The money is not even made from introductions, but in selling addresses (often fake, or years out of date), over-priced translation services, and bouquets of flowers which cost approx 600% more than the real price for flower-delivery.

I was attacking the agencies and the way they are run, and the slur they cast over the reputations of Russian girls.

I did not mean anything more than that, and I apologise if anyone was offended by anything else they read into something I may not have written with sufficient clarity or care :(

For the record, I have not been asked to write this message by any other person.

N.

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 17:18
I`m going to hold my hands up here as I blew up at Neil, too without reading the posts properly !

Would you believe it but - after a round of mutual private mud slinging, turns out that Neil and I are in agreement on a lot of things ? ;-)))))))))))))))

Just one of those usual internet misunderstandings. Sorry, folks - I`ll sit back and listen attentively to the conversation (which you can tell is one I`m very interested in) and - I`ll shut the **** up. ;-))

Dave ;-)

Ledka
13-08-2003, 17:43
...................................STILL DISCUSSING?!!!!!!

Oriole
13-08-2003, 17:45
Reading all the discussion I felt myself like an article placed for sale in a supermarket:(
English girls, Russian girls.......westerners going for russians.....russians going for westerners......who cares????
I'm female and I'm Russian and I have never actually questioned myself if I'm feminst or feminine and which one is better....and when I start dating a guy I do not give a **** what country he comes from, I only care if we fit each other......
I do not say everyone is like me but it was just unpleasant to read all this discussions about gold diggers, "brides with black beard" and that Russian girls (but of course not from Moscow and St. Pete) are more of traditional values and those who are from big citties are all bitches and only want expat's money......
We are all different and each time two fall in love or have a relashinship is different....and why do we need to judge them and try to categorise everything??? Why just not to let it go and not to be so concerned with one's origin......look at the personality, not the place of birth.....

Sorry if I was too pathetic....

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 17:48
Hehehee - we Englishmen find Russian ladies (cultured, well read, intelligent, caring) to be totally fascinating, Ledka. ;-)))

Really, it`s not a post about Western men / Russian women, but - what the dating agencies TELL Western men about Russian women. Which, as Neil says, and I`ve agreed with him, a pack of lies designed to get $10 an address off someone who wants to believe a skazka.......

We also had a few more interesting things to say along the way, too... but it`s the nature of bulletin boards. ;-))))))))

Dave ;-))

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 17:50
No no no, Oriole, you`re RIGHT - it`s just two people meeting each other and falling - sometimes (very rarely) in love -

the rest is just DETAIL.;-)

But the dating agencies are still rip-offs. ;-)))
Dave ;-)))




Originally posted by Oriole
Reading all the discussion I felt myself like an article placed for sale in a supermarket:(
English girls, Russian girls.......westerners going for russians.....russians going for westerners......who cares????
I'm female and I'm Russian and I have never actually questioned myself if I'm feminst or feminine and which one is better....and when I start dating a guy I do not give a **** what country he comes from, I only care if we fit each other......
I do not say everyone is like me but it was just unpleasant to read all this discussions about gold diggers, "brides with black beard" and that Russian girls (but of course not from Moscow and St. Pete) are more of traditional values and those who are from big citties are all bitches and only want expat's money......
We are all different and each time two fall in love or have a relashinship is different....and why do we need to judge them and try to categorise everything??? Why just not to let it go and not to be so concerned with one's origin......look at the personality, not the place of birth.....

Sorry if I was too pathetic....

Broadmoor Bob
13-08-2003, 17:56
To sum it all up - the dating "agencies" have zilch to do with the normal, and often happy and successful, relationships between Russian women and Western men (or vice versa) here in the expat community as well as in the West. These agencies are one step above the Nigerian bank scammers, and nowhere near as entertaining. At least the bloody Nigerians don't use HTML when they spam me, and since I pay per MB, there's a big difference ;). Those who fall for the agencies, deserve as much sympathy as those who advance "50 thousend dolers" to some enterprising scoundrel in Lagos who pretends to be the widow of a dear, departed dictator or warlord. Both are losers, looking for a quick fix at someone else's expense.

As for normal relationships - there are nice girls, as well as golddiggers and quick lays everywhere, and some people prefer their own kind, while others find more meaning in an inter-cultural relationship. For every visa ****e who has turned me off, I have met at least 10 nice, normal women here.

DaveUK1965
13-08-2003, 18:00
And he`s summed it up. ;-))

Dave ;-))



Originally posted by Broadmoor Bob
To sum it all up - the dating "agencies" have zilch to do with the normal, and often happy and successful, relationships between Russian women and Western men (or vice versa) here in the expat community as well as in the West. These agencies are one step above the Nigerian bank scammers, and nowhere near as entertaining. At least the bloody Nigerians don't use HTML when they spam me, and since I pay per MB, there's a big difference ;). Those who fall for the agencies, deserve as much sympathy as those who advance "50 thousend dolers" to some enterprising scoundrel in Lagos who pretends to be the widow of a dear, departed dictator or warlord. Both are losers, looking for a quick fix at someone else's expense.

As for normal relationships - there are nice girls, as well as golddiggers and quick lays everywhere, and some people prefer their own kind, while others find more meaning in an inter-cultural relationship. For every visa ****e who has turned me off, I have met at least 10 nice, normal women here.

Oriole
14-08-2003, 00:53
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
No no no, Oriole, you`re RIGHT - it`s just two people meeting each other and falling - sometimes (very rarely) in love -

the rest is just DETAIL.;-)

But the dating agencies are still rip-offs. ;-)))
Dave ;-)))

Thanks Dave:D

Nice to hear that finally we are all categorised, marked, priced and evaluated so you could switch of to marriage agencies and discuss its pros and cons.....

moscowmail
15-08-2003, 20:44
OK, a few housekeeping points before I respond, I don't know pop out of the country for a few days and da rules get broke.

Dave, your language on all boards except bardak should be clean, no swearing, it took me ages to edit your messages, be nice please (at least out of Bardak)

Neil, at least you sort of appologised for the generalisation, and your language ona few points was close to the wind, please be nice.

I am moving this to Expat cafe, this is the place for this type of chatty thingy.

My opinion, ... hmmm, you get what you deserve, my 4 years here have been great, met more women who are genuine than anywhere else in the World, the majority are Russian (because of where we are :) ) but also expat women.

ANyway, got more editing and stuff to do so cheerio

Len

:D

krikket
16-08-2003, 13:59
Originally posted by Ledka
STOP GOSSIPING ABOUT US... WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.......AS WELL AS U R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're a unique individual. Just like everyone else.

8^)

*Ducks and runs*

(Not helping)

MORPHEUS
18-08-2003, 19:28
(CENSORED. BULLSHIT CONTENT OVER ACCEPTABLE LIMITS).

krikket
20-08-2003, 13:28
Originally posted by stefania2003
I would finally point out that there are no pages of Russian/Ukranian men 'for sale' nor are there expat ladies starting threads about their manly charms (!) on this board so maybe we should do something about that to redress the balance?:))))

To pick the nit... I've stumbled across a site that does just that -- offer men from the FSU for marriage to nice western women.

But I'll agree -- it's not the same industry in terms of size.

stefania2003
20-08-2003, 15:47
Ah yes, I now remember that a few years ago an American acquaintance actually started some kind of escort agency type thing for American ladies looking to meet Russian men and they had parties and so on in St Petersburg. He wanted me to work for him as an interpreter but I politely declined:)

information
23-08-2003, 16:11
This thread seems to be very intersting,though bringing forward judgements and arguments,the simple suggestion would be "DO NOT REACT FOR ANYTHING KEEP SMILING AND WATCHING" if we dig a garbage, understood it stinks........people who have no challenges in life will lead to cheap earnings...conversing about such people is simply a waste of time....oops hope I have not offended anybody!

natalia_apple
23-08-2003, 16:25
challenge is a great thing
and what is a challenge for you?

information
23-08-2003, 16:30
simple challenge for today!

Maybe to meet a young lady like you?

ha ha ha just joking dont take it serious!