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kalan
07-04-2004, 21:37
How does an Expat find an Expat job these days?

Not being hired as a "local hire" but rather as an Expat with foreign education and foreign training... and that wonderful Expatriate Compensation Package...or since many companies are now facing the work permit nightmare, are these days only in the past?

Your thoughts?

DaveUKagain
07-04-2004, 21:40
Learn to speak Russian. Many employers are getting wise to the fact that Russians can speak English, too. And tend to be..... cheaper.

kalan
07-04-2004, 21:50
if the Expat speaks Russian and even has earned a Russian degree to compliment their western education? I've seen some friends who have finished MGU be turned away because of this work-permit problem...

Can a foreigner be hired from within Russia? Or should they be contacting headhunters outside Russia for placement within?

This was the recent discussion over lunch the other day and now I'm curious to see if this is a problem for all expats nowadays....

sevan
08-04-2004, 08:48
word on the street is that the "expat package" is on its way out. There are plenty of qualified expats (like me :)) willing to work as a local hire, if the money is decent.

lyndsay
08-04-2004, 09:50
headhunter, I'll give my tuppence of info.

An expat, has to approach the market as a Russian. The average managers salary up to 3.5k a month is respectable enough although you can expetc to be working at 2k most of the time. You HAVE TO speak Russian well enough too -

The expat package is only applicable to oil/construction industry specialists, senior financial positions - very, very, rarely will a generalist get such opportunities. Add to this the pressure on companies for proving that a Russian couldn't do the job; the tax burden; and the general anti foreign attitude of Russia and you're stuffed! Believe me, I know and have just recently worked with German/Polish start ups here - who paid salaries of 5k amonth for the managers I found them, but would not pay the estimated 6.5 an expat would have costed - a reality.

If you have a niche - sales, for example, working in major brand sphere.. you can do ok, but really, as far as I can see, expats are a dieing breed.. forced onto the grey boundaries of work here..you can expect employers to take advantage of you and offer terrible salaries as they know you're skilled, but struggling to find stable employment.. which again means you are stuffed - I know people who used to make 5k a month who now work for 1500 plus commission.. and they have a Russian wife, their own apartment and kids, and also STILL need to leave the country every 6 months even though they OWN their property.. to register!!

The party is over... actually, I think it's time to get mi coat ..

bibliofil
08-04-2004, 11:03
It is all true, however sad it is. There are not so many opportunities to get an expat package from Russia.

But still, there is always a way to get an expat job from the UK or USA. Just choose a company which has an office in Russia, get a job in the headquarters and aim for a foreign posting to, surprise, Russia.

I know people who've done it. Two years in London and here they are, in sunny Moscow.

PS Why do not ask me

Random
08-04-2004, 11:19
For what its worth I know of three banks looking to hire staff to work here - none of them are offering "expat" package. They will hire people who are either here or are happy to relocate at thier own expense.

The reason being there is a glut of unemployed bankers/brokers etc in London and New York and therefore the employer gets to call the tune. Yes there are jobs that are specialised where you will get a full package, but they are getting rarer by the day.

If the London market recovers then there will have to be some sweeting of the pill but at the moment its a case of if you want to work the job is in Moscow - You figure it out.

lyndsay
08-04-2004, 11:24
I am presently seeking a CFO for a major company:

Expat - is that you?

Send PM for more info: good package

moscowmail
08-04-2004, 11:29
Ooohh, Lynsdsay, go for it :)

I tend to disagree a little, there are some good positions with expat packages, yes they are disapearing, bu they are out there...

I do not speak Russian, but it has not really held me back :) mind you my English aint that good either :)

lyndsay
08-04-2004, 11:31
you are ONE of a kind

;)

legspreader
08-04-2004, 14:08
many multinationals have a policy of only hiring locals for many factors, not to mention that corprations have rexamined the whole expat thing and are seeing as an extravagance not a neccesity. in terms of banking finance good luck as was mentioned before the market is flooded with folks layed off in londen and new york. i passed along a resume to a guy i know that works for a major russian bank, his responce was sorry too many expats in our group already. unless you have a special skill set that they cant get here already be it skill sets or connections your pretty much assed out in terms of an expat package. because as it was mentioned before on this site no matter what you do there is a local that will do the same job for less than you....

Filimon
08-04-2004, 17:44
Job Title: Country Manager - Russia

Job Description: Leading global supplier of engineering services require a Country Manager to establish and develop their business interests in Russia. With a focus on financially sound Oil and Gas companies, you will be required to establish key accounts and to form the necessary structure to enable delivery.

Company: Munro Consulting

Location: Central Scotland/Russia, UNITED KINGDOM

Salary: 50000 - 60000 UK Pounds/year

Job Ref. No.: J6847

To view the full advert and to apply for the job go to www.oilcareers.com and enter the Job Ref. No. or click the following link: http://www.oilcareers.com/content/jobsearch/job_advert.asp?id=J6847

To view similar jobs click the following link: http://www.oilcareers.com/content/jobsearch/job_search.asp?fromadvert=1&searchterms=&searchType=0&categories=commFinLeg%2C+engMechPipe%2C+sales

stefania2003
08-04-2004, 22:20
Lyndsay's post was the best I've seen in a long while on these boards. He hit the nail right on the head. I have taught at a lot of big companies and none of them employ foreigners except for one really big one which hires foreign consultants on a short term fixed contract basis. Why should they when there are plenty of clever young Russians with excellent English skills? Plus the work permit hassle really doesn't make it worth people's while. Even as an English teacher I've waited ages to get a work permit and even then will probably only get a 3 month one at first and I often get passed over for booking as the fashion has turned away from native speakers back to Russian teachers as they are hot on grammar and cheaper of course.
And yes, the anti-foreigner thing and this 6 month having to leave the country (or even every 3 months) is ridiculous and typical of the hostile attitude of their chernobniki.
I don't agree with Len. He has done well and good for him but things have changed a lot since the early days of perestroika when foreign offices were manned by foreigners and I honestly don't think it's worth people's while to live here anymore in many cases. I think the opportunities for expats here are much fewer than they were say 10 years ago.

Penguin Snacks
09-04-2004, 02:50
I haven't read any of the previos comments so I am probably off track with my comments. So I will be brief:

Expat Package = Good
Local Package = Bad

Where can I get an expat package;) ...

DaveUKagain
09-04-2004, 03:00
Russia has a wealth of intelligent, educated, talented people who work for low wages. You can either undercut them or "out-talent" them - so either you`re a genius, want to be poor or are very, very lucky.......

6kaway
09-04-2004, 04:15
From what I'm hearing here in Canada, oil & gas expat jobs are once again in abundance in Russia. At the moment I have a handful of good friends and even more acquaintances over there working as expats. Most making much more $$$ than any of the numbers mentioned above. Most with Western based companies, but some with Russian. Most know little of the Russian language. Still using translator's and the fact that more Russian based marketing and purchasing people know English these days.

I haven't been there for a couple years so can't give first hand knowledge. However, the guys I talk to have no reason to B.S. me unless they're just trying to get me back over there to have someone else pick up the tab. But based on what I'm hearing, even if my current possible job opportunities don't pan out I'm told, "come on over...you'll have no problem finding something". Of course I am one of the people that do have a Russian wife and an apartment over there but I wouldn't consider working for peanuts either. Better off starting up some little business. Of course it's a matter of finding the right business though. Not even my good friends that have been there for years have come to me with a good one yet. Well, at least not a good one that's not going to have a million dollar price tag.

Interesting to read these comments by some of you that are over there though. I better make a few calls and have a good heart to heart about the true job opp's before I head over there if I decide to go without having a job already.

geofizz56
09-04-2004, 07:52
I've got a nice expat package (yes, oil/gas industry), but the policy of our company is for expats to transfer our knowledge as quickly as possible to local staff, then get the heck out of Dodge. It's just too expensive to keep us here, especially with the new visa and tax rules. Our group started at 60% expat a year ago, and will be 90% local by the end of this year.

As an aside - our local staff are indeed excellent in their disciplines, but what I see to be lacking is cross-training and the concepts of workgroups where you have to share your knowledge with coworkers. The attitude here seems rather possessive - for example, it took a mandate from above to force people to put their work on a network drive instead of hiding it in their personal directories.

bibliofil
09-04-2004, 10:39
Nobody mentioned trust. May be my job is specific (not oil/gas) but my company will never employ a local as a head of the office or a trader.

Do not blame them - contracts are for millions, salaries - tens of thousands. Too much temptation.

What they would do is to employ russian speakers in London, posion them with all that corporate spirit etc - and send them down here.

legspreader
09-04-2004, 10:59
oil and gas is a special skill set and as mentioned will got to locals as soon as there some with said skill sets, as for traders department heads not being russian i know one major russian bank that for a fact has russian traders department heads.....

Filimon
09-04-2004, 13:21
Originally posted by bibliofil
Nobody mentioned trust. May be my job is specific (not oil/gas) but my company will never employ a local as a head of the office or a trader.

Do not blame them - contracts are for millions, salaries - tens of thousands. Too much temptation.

What they would do is to employ russian speakers in London, posion them with all that corporate spirit etc - and send them down here.

same for law firms. I think there will always be expats at local offices. They also send trainees on placements.

lyndsay
09-04-2004, 14:47
100k per annum..

Expat: lovely job

PM me

Len, I know, delete me....

:p