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Miracle77777
28-03-2008, 00:35
What do you think about using writers, who are using works of others as base for their own books???
Of course, when it is going along with permission from both sides))
Thanks for comments..........

Transparent Theatre
28-03-2008, 06:44
Hi Miracle

In our own sphere of classical music (especially Russian music) this debate is raging right now.

The conductor/musicologist Robert Craft (who became Stravinsky's colleague and self-appointed "amenuensis") is furious at the publication of a book by Prof Stepehen Walsh. He claims "50,000 words are stolen" directly from his books about Stravinsky. Of course he's also probably annoyed that Walsh has suggested Craft has hugely magnified his own importance in Stravinsky's works and life ;)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Gcrh16FML._SS500_.jpg

Olenka19
28-03-2008, 16:50
What do you think about using writers, who are using works of others as base for their own books???
Of course, when it is going along with permission from both sides))
Thanks for comments..........

Well, it's a bit difficult to judge. Especially Pushkin, Lermontov or Tolstoy. Let's take their Caucausian prisoner. The plot and the ideas are the same and we can't say who used and who was used. But all of them made works of art I think. May be I didn't understand your idea, Miracle? :zoom:

Penelope
28-03-2008, 17:00
Miracle, do you mean plagiarism? Or are you talking about when an author gives permisson to have his work used in film or play?

MissAnnElk
28-03-2008, 17:59
Or do you mean ghost writing?

Miracle77777
29-03-2008, 12:12
Ok....

I see, that Topic is rather wider, that I had imagine it at first...:)

Plagiarism - yes...we could discuss it also....

As sometimes, it is really debating question - who stole from where)))

Initially I meant under writer's slavers - writer's from the 3rd layer, who could write a lot...but it has not such a spirit and not exciting or interesting or genius at all....Kind of technical writers....do you call them Grafomans?? or I mix two definitions????

We all know stories about Duma and Balzak, who used stories of their students as basic thread...and with their genius hand - transformed it to another bestseller.....

So, I would like to discuss - how do you find this way of writing??
As, obvious, without such help from students, they could not write so many books....
But still - it is not actually Their creations....

Footnote: to be honest - not very right name - writer's slaver...because they do it with permission and very often making a lot of money on it......

Especially nowadays.....;)

bambina
29-03-2008, 12:49
I knew a guy who started translating one Uzbek book but then he found out that there are a lot of terms from old language which was hard for him not only to find but to figure out becasue he wasnot Uzbek and never even lived in there, so, he hired two students whom he paid money for helping him to translate into English. They were happy to help him and he was happy to get it???? :11033:
Personally I think that as much as they agree to do it nothing wrong with it, but then again it is arguable matter because one might say that those people have potency to do that work but don't have money which makes them rrr slaves rrr bad term, sorry Mira ;), may be used?

hazelnut
29-03-2008, 16:09
And I know a guy (a philologist) who wrote several novels that were published under the name of Фридрих Незнанский (one of the best sold Russian detective writers). And that guy knew a few more people who did the same, so we can’t be sure if that Фридрих Незнанский has ever written anything himself. Anyways, his name’s made a kind of successful brand mark for his publishing house.
As for “slavery” (that friend of mine used another term – мартышки “marmosets”), well, that guy, I know, was well-paid, so he never complained. And, more important, he would never agree to publish those gloomy stories full of blood and violence under his own name, it was rather a sort of a game to him. Call that sordid if you want, but that’s commercial reality. ;)

:sunny::sunny::sunny:

Korotky Gennady
30-03-2008, 05:11
I knew a guy who started translating one Uzbek book but then he found out that there are a lot of terms from old language which was hard for him not only to find but to figure out becasue he wasnot Uzbek and never even lived in there, so, he hired two students whom he paid money for helping him to translate into English. They were happy to help him and he was happy to get it???? :11033:
Personally I think that as much as they agree to do it nothing wrong with it, but then again it is arguable matter because one might say that those people have potency to do that work but don't have money which makes them rrr slaves rrr bad term, sorry Mira ;), may be used?

Bambina, I'm sure that it's bad thing thing becoz... you know... it's quite unhonest. See.. he used them for his creative work which he did as a writer... It's okey but he should to write the names of people who helped him in his translating... And Balzack and Duma.. I'm sure... must do the same. Then it would be quite fair and legal... ain't ?

But if they two students made All This Work for him and he got all money for that and he gave them only a little part of these money after... then it all is double unhonest. It's simple explotation of people's labour then.

Korotky Gennady
30-03-2008, 05:20
And I know a guy (a philologist) who wrote several novels that were published under the name of Фридрих Незнанский (one of the best sold Russian detective writers). And that guy knew a few more people who did the same, so we can’t be sure if that Фридрих Незнанский has ever written anything himself. Anyways, his name’s made a kind of successful brand mark for his publishing house.
As for “slavery” (that friend of mine used another term – мартышки “marmosets”), well, that guy, I know, was well-paid, so he never complained. And, more important, he would never agree to publish those gloomy stories full of blood and violence under his own name, it was rather a sort of a game to him. Call that sordid if you want, but that’s commercial reality. ;)

:sunny::sunny::sunny: Yeah... it's the f..cking capitalistic reality we live in... :focus:

Korotky Gennady
30-03-2008, 05:23
But Allah Akbar ! of course...

Miracle77777
30-03-2008, 23:46
Personally I think that as much as they agree to do it nothing wrong with it, but then again it is arguable matter because one might say that those people have potency to do that work but don't have money which makes them rrr slaves rrr bad term, sorry Mira ;), may be used?


Bambina, I'm sure that it's bad thing thing becoz... you know... it's quite unhonest. See.. he used them for his creative work which he did as a writer... It's okey but he should to write the names of people who helped him in his translating... And Balzack and Duma.. I'm sure... must do the same. Then it would be quite fair and legal... ain't ?

But if they two students made All This Work for him and he got all money for that and he gave them only a little part of these money after... then it all is double unhonest. It's simple explotation of people's labour then.

That is exactly what disturbes me,,,,,,

Yes....sometimes, they, - persons who agreed for such a simbios - to write for others, who is more promoted and powerful - I like this word - Martyshka^^ -

so...sometimes - they are not too inspiring and perspective....in that case, I guess - this is the best option for being honoured somehow and make money for living.....

But very often....too often, I would say - there are a lot of just really interesting writers...with beautiful ideas and exciting language, who simply could not promote themselves in other way, as they do not have money/someone powerful behind e t.c......
So - this is what I found really appaling......:( :groan:

I agree with Gena - it would be so more honest to print the names of everyone, who joined to book-project......