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SalTheReturn
26-03-2008, 02:41
if someone wants to get as much private russian classes as possible and the budget of this person is around 700euros (excl.rent and airplane ticket), what CHГ country would you advice?

in what CHГ is the "clearest" russian spoken?

and where the population is more damn poor in order that teacher can be hired for peanuts?

must be a capital, no villages.

So far I was suggested Uzbekistan and Chinisau...apparently teacher may come to your place for 5dollars.

any other advice?

Transparent Theatre
26-03-2008, 09:17
The point about "no villages" is not really valid. There are lots of cities in Siberia (Barnaul, Tomsk, Ussuriysk, Biysk and many more) where you could find top-value teaching from native speakers of pure Russian, where the infrastucture and available services would be more extensive than in Chisinau (sp!!). And all around you will be authentic RUSSIAN language. You can enjoy an authentic punch on the nose for speaking Russian in some former parts of the USSR ;) What's the point of going to a place where the local language ISN'T Russian? Outside the lesson you'll get little chance to put what you learn into practical use :(

SalTheReturn
26-03-2008, 13:12
The point about "no villages" is not really valid. There are lots of cities in Siberia (Barnaul, Tomsk, Ussuriysk, Biysk and many more) where you could find top-value teaching from native speakers of pure Russian, where the infrastucture and available services would be more extensive than in Chisinau (sp!!). And all around you will be authentic RUSSIAN language. You can enjoy an authentic punch on the nose for speaking Russian in some former parts of the USSR ;) What's the point of going to a place where the local language ISN'T Russian? Outside the lesson you'll get little chance to put what you learn into practical use :(

very good point

now cant perfectly know how is the deal in central asia but i guess if we get Moldova, Eastern Ukraine, i would be ok with russian

what about Belarus? They say belarussian language is one of "dead languages"

and did not Armenians, just short time ago revealed that they mostly use russian in their daily lives?

25.000 russians and more are around CIS countries

to be honest TransparentT, all people I have met from CIS countries speak russian as a FIRST language, this comes often because of their families and in working situations

I think even in Riga, one could practice his/her russian everyday due to the cityn hosting 50% russians

i am curious what about places, like Kirgyzistan/Turkmenistan/etc...? whats the deal there with russian?

Transparent Theatre
26-03-2008, 13:28
My experience is that you can't generalise. For example in Baku, there is a social prejudice against the local language (Azeri) - "intellectuals" prefer to speak Russian. But in Georgia there is a very, very severe prejudice against Russian, and even those who speak it well and understand will prefer to talk in English to you, than in Russian.

I've never been in Turkmenistan (except for seven hours in transit) so I can't say. In Uzbekistan the position changed radically in the last few years... previously they were the best pals of America, and even made the decision to write the Uzbek language once again in latin alphabet. But now relations have chilled with USA (over the issue of rented air-bases) and Uzbekistan is once again greatest friends with Russia, cyrillic is everywhere and you can see printed Russian on adverts etc. However, if you go outside Tashkent, you'll find that Russian is spoken poorly, and Uzbek is preferred in villages and smaller towns. However, I am not sure that learning Russian from an Uzbek is the finest way to study, even if they speak it well... there's a strong accent, and a great deal of local-specific jargon and dialect. Of course, for interaction with Uzbeks, this is fine and desirable! But imagine that instead of RP English, you've made some special point of learning English with a Cornish accent? Oooarr, m'deario, you would sound very quaint then, wouldn't you, moi lovely? :)

SalTheReturn
26-03-2008, 13:35
Transparent have a question for you

do you find the russian spoken outside Russia more understandable?

was recently in Ukraine (russian city of Donetsk, and Kiev) and no trouble at all.

my teacher here is a russian-moldovian, sometimes she speaks as fast as hell but i understand her. Ok maybe this is because i have been studying a lot with her now

met a girl from Kazakistan, no problem understanding her

same as above with a girl from Baku

come my friends from Moscow, and I am lost when they speak Russian

the same apply in my case with British and American English.

Despite I lived in the UK and not in the US, I understand Americans much better.

anyway

so in term of using russian language for business (not necessarily within russia but to be employed by foreign/italian companies that deal with CSI/Russia), do you think no point in learning the language outside russia?

Transparent Theatre
26-03-2008, 14:21
That's quite a hard question to answer, Sal!

Of course native speakers who feel entirely comfortable in their own language AND have advanced ideas they wish to express will probably speak faster, and use more extravagant vocabulary and recondite constructions than those who are speaking it well as a "second language". It's inevitable, I think?

I notice that when I am talking to non-native speakers in English, I avoid obscure words, jargon, double-meanings, etc... but when I'm in Britain and talking to someone from my own social background (for example, my brother) I use a much wider range of vocabulary. Russians must do that too, I'm sure.

If there were some important lifestyle or economic advantages to learning Russian outside Russia, I can see it would be tempting. But you lose a lot if you can't go shopping, or chat to new people, in the language you're trying to learn, I think? I suppose it depends why you want to learn... only to conduct business meetings and formal discussions, or also to be able to joke and laugh and get drunk with people? :)

Of course there are parts of Crouch End (London N8) where you can immerse yourself entirely in a Russian-speaking community ;)

Transparent Theatre
26-03-2008, 14:30
PS there are also a lot of "localisation" issues with learning Russian from non-Russians. In Uzbekistan they call everyone "ty" from the outset and that's regarded as normal. If you learned that as a norm, and then came to Moscow with what you'd learned, you would experience some hostility for this unprecedented level of familiarity, I'm sure. That's just one example - there are many others.

SalTheReturn
26-03-2008, 15:37
but actually Transparent T I have spoken about people who grew up in CIS countries within russian families. their native language is russian. so it is hard to understand why in Donetsk it was easier to understand people rather than in Moscow.

my teacher was born in Moldova but she is completely Russian

Transparent Theatre
26-03-2008, 15:45
But even so there can be differences. For example Russians living in Uzbekistan frequently say "хоб" instead of "да"...

SalTheReturn
26-03-2008, 15:49
But even so there can be differences. For example Russians living in Uzbekistan frequently say "хоб" instead of "да"...

but is that a difference which might prevent a non native to understand?

i mean if they tell me "mate" or "dude", it is a difference which i can easily depict

same difference maybe are to be found withing the RF

even in smaller country like italy we have different idioms and accents, but when we are on business we all understand each other