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camus
31-03-2004, 21:53
What's the worst thing that's happened to you in Moscow ? Personal experience: some drunk attacked me with a baseball bat today.

Peter

pengwn9
31-03-2004, 23:48
Box office 'customer service' agents scalping their own tickets.

natalia_apple
31-03-2004, 23:53
Originally posted by camus
What's the worst thing that's happened to you in Moscow ? Personal experience: some drunk attacked me with a baseball bat today.

Peter

if you suffer so much, why are you still here?

DaveUKagain
31-03-2004, 23:54
He`s going around to THEIR place tonight with a hedge trimmer and a cold chisel...... you OK, Peter ???

camus
01-04-2004, 00:14
Dave,

Thanks for the sympathies. I'm OK, although the taxicab I was in got busted up a bit and I lost about $50 worth of groceries.

I guess a sense of absolute rightness and entitlement is common with rednecks everywhere (said bidla was pissed off that I didn't let him cut in line after he shoved me, slammed his beer down on the counter, demanded that the "bladi" in front of him get the f*ck out of his way, and the "suka" at the register ring up his beer)

Natalia,

Are you having a bad day, or is your need to be nasty and sarcastic pathological ?

Peter

natalia_apple
01-04-2004, 00:16
are you having a bad day or do you just generally hate Moscow?

DaveUKagain
01-04-2004, 00:19
Sorry to hear it, Peter - it`s "big city" time, of course. I get the same thing - if I`m right, I`m right. But I check `em for baseball bats first. ;) - well - $50 down on the shopping but it could have been a lot worse..... nice to see you`re OK !!

natalia_apple
01-04-2004, 00:28
I'm also very sorry it happened to you, but is it enough reason to generalize and call people "bidla"? Besides, its "bidlo"

camus
01-04-2004, 00:30
Natalia,

Sorry to offend your unassailable and ever-perfect Moskva, but the reality of this city and of this country is, that by Western Standards, there are an awful lot of surly, deranged, and otherwise unpleasant people.

As for bidlo, I'm referring to them specifically, not to all Russians as such.

Peter

natalia_apple
01-04-2004, 00:32
Moscow is far from being perfect
why are you here, and not in the western world?

DPG
01-04-2004, 00:33
Natalia - although I have often been amazed at things Camus has posted in the past (which I considered to be rather rude), the chap just been attacked by some drunk with a baseball bat.

Although it has never happened to me, I remember perfectly well how I felt last year when 2 drunk idiots attempted to mug me in Kurskaya metro station after I'd finished work.

I would have happily murdered everyone in Moscow (excluding friends) without giving it a second thought I was SO ANGRY...have a little sympathy would you??

If he (or 99% of other people) generally hated Moscow he/they wouldn't be here...this type of thing has the knack of shaking people up a tad.

That said, it's amazing that some people will drink so much, that they exhibit the behaviour that Peter describes in his post above - incredible!

A cognac, a chat (rant) with a mate, a couple of Valerian tablets and a good night's sleep and I was back on track for the next morning...

camus
01-04-2004, 00:34
DPG,

What "rudeness" exactly are you referring to ? I try not to be rude without provocation.

Peter

pengwn9
01-04-2004, 00:36
I hate to rain on your parade Camus, but so far I've found most Muscovites (outside of ticket clerks and the supermarket girls) to be really pretty genuine and friendly people. Can't tell you how many times I dropped my hat or gloves on the Metro this winter and 6 people chattered to tell me that they'd dropped.

I've heard about the skinheads but my experiences have been largely very good. In fact, for a city this huge I'd give Muscovites 2 thumbs up on the frendliness factor.:sunny:

DPG
01-04-2004, 00:36
I can't remember exact words/posts/threads, but some of the stuff you posted in the sports forum a couple of times...

...anyway, the above was my attempt at sympathy and understanding, plus trying to explain the situation to someone else from another's point of view - take it or leave it mate!;)

DPG
01-04-2004, 00:38
Pengyn9 - I thought the same until the time I mentioned above put me on guard (and, despite having lived in capital cities all my life) it was the first time anything like that had ever happened...and the last time I hope.

natalia_apple
01-04-2004, 00:40
Peter, maybe you could tell us where it happened, so we could try to avoid the area?

pengwn9
01-04-2004, 00:53
This may sound like some pretty stupid shit too, but I've always felt relatively safe in the Metro. My god, the places are just crawling with cops.

Maybe I'm just too trusting.

DaveUKagain
01-04-2004, 00:58
Peter, don`t let it get you down, please. I`ve found Russians - just as Peng says, to be genuine and friendly people - more so than in the West. A lot will go out of their way to help you.

Trouble is, drunks and lunatics. I got hassled a bit for spare change for vodka because there I was wearing a suit in the middle of Russia - but then again, I can`t walk through my home city without that happening, anyway. I always thought, though, that when you`re abroad it`s much more difficult to spot trouble coming unless the radio`s tuned in properly to a new station..... life abroad. I`ve got into fights - fights, for God`s sake, I`m 38 - in Rotterdam with the Turkish community - and drunks in bars - and had all kinds of problems in Deutschland through not being Teutonic enough - but............ just shrug it off, Peter. It`s just nice to know that stupidity is an international phenomenon.

Natalia, sorry to have to correct you here but life in the West (my bit, anyway) is not much different than life in Russia..... you`d be surprised, honestly. We just don`t hit the very bottom limit, but social problems involving drugs and drunk and public disorder here are something to behold indeed.......

DPG
01-04-2004, 00:59
Pengwn - You are! I'm more scared of getting mugged by them than I am of getting mugged by 'criminals'!!;):)

pengwn9
01-04-2004, 01:12
I'd only been living here for about a week and I just went out looking around--my god! I'm in Russia!--and time just got away from me and it was 11 or so before I wandered home and my husband was worried out of his mind. Fairly pissed. I didn't know how to use the phones (still don't) but I've never been really been fearful.

I don't believe that you can go around in this life being afraid of everything unknown, that evil lurks around every bend. I just can't live that way. I'm constantly lost, out by myself, don't speak Russian, and usually forgot my map at home.

Someone once told me years ago that you should always expect the worst and be prepared for it. I think that made me go in the opposite direction. How can you live like that?

DPG
01-04-2004, 01:16
I was jesting!

I can't live like that either - I occassionally hear about a chap I was at school with, who quite literally hasn't set foot outside the front door for about 8 years...

Like you (I summise from what you write above), I'm far more one of the "get on and do it" type people than many I meet (especially when talking about Brits in Britain for some reason) - in fact, most people I have met in Moscow in the last couple of years seem to be 'eggs out of a similar basket'.

I agree with you - fear breeds fear, pessimism breeds pessimism.

The above said, it doesn't pay to be careless in any large city and information on the "dos and don'ts" is seldom wasted.

sfjohns67
01-04-2004, 08:49
Originally posted by pengwn9
I hate to rain on your parade Camus, but so far I've found most Muscovites (outside of ticket clerks and the supermarket girls) to be really pretty genuine and friendly people. Can't tell you how many times I dropped my hat or gloves on the Metro this winter and 6 people chattered to tell me that they'd dropped.

I've heard about the skinheads but my experiences have been largely very good. In fact, for a city this huge I'd give Muscovites 2 thumbs up on the frendliness factor.:sunny:
So explain to me the surly sonofabitch passed out and blocking my elevator this morning, who snarled at me when I shook him to see if he was dead or just drunk. Call it my own little spin on things, but he just doesn't quite seem to fit your "Muscovites are shiny happy people" profile.

sfjohns67
01-04-2004, 08:56
To answer the original question, my worst Moscow indignity was the time I was outside of Taganka Blues restaurant, holding my own in a fair fight with some guy...until his 3 bodyguards showed up, causing me to immediately begin running up and down the street with them chasing after me, and me screaming like a scared little bitch for my friends to come help me.

Man, I sure wish I was making that story up! :shame:

FLEUR
01-04-2004, 09:11
Camus, 6 months ago I attended a seminar in London, I was there for 2 days, alone. One of the nights I decided to go out from my hotel - just to have a walk. Two very decent looking guys came up to me and almost raped me (thank God they only managed to take off my skirt) (it was London downtown, 11:30 pm!) I am sorry about what happened to you, but
This happens EVERYWHERE
And, I think, that Moscow is safer, than many of WEst.European capitals

camus
01-04-2004, 10:28
pengwn9,

I won't argue the fact that there are lots of friendly people, but the number of assholes is astounding. Furthermore, you're likely getting a bit better treatment as an obvious foreigner. I'm generally taken for either Causasian or Russian by roughneck types (I don't really have a significant accent and I look vaguely Semitic/Caucasian ). People are much more friendly to me when i'm speaking English.

re phones: just get a cell phone; they're cheap and signing up takes the whole of 5 minutes.

DPG,

No big thing -- just don't like to come-off as rude when that's not the intent (If i'm actively trying to be rude, I dont mind :) ). I remember being a bit pissed about all the people jerking me around regarding tennis and badminton, but I don't recall being actively rude to anyone in particular.

Dave,

Nothing much really gets me down although I did spend most of yesterday in a state apparently DPG can relate to (nuke Moscow, impale all the rednecks with something hot and sharp).

Natalia,

This was right outside the Perekrostok on Pokrishkana (Yugo Zapadnaya); supposedly a good area.

To rest of the expat.ru world,

I relayed this story to a Russian friend and his take on the guy was that he was probably a mid-level "collections" agent for the mob given that he was driving a "pimped out" fairly late model Skoda and not afraid of trying to settle his differences with a baseball bat in broad daylight.

Peter

sevan
01-04-2004, 11:03
I think that Peter's poll is rather diplomatic, given that he was just attacked with a baseball bat. He never said that this stuff doesn't happen everywhere (though getting attacked with a baseball bat is relatively rare:)). In case you missed it, he was using the word "bydlo" do describe people doing things like attacking you with a baseball bat! Why get all indignant and ask "why are you here" to the guy who complains about being mugged? Y'all should be asking that to some other people on the site - those who seem to complain about everything that happens to them and everyone they know in Russia!

lyndsay
01-04-2004, 11:15
I was jumped on the metro by an older chap..

he was very drunk - thought, well, don't hit him as he's only stretching your jumper.. it's not such a great jumper anyway.. and he's too pissed to defend himself..

Turns out he was an FSB guy... just lost his son on the kursk.. saw me and decided to vent..

We ended up sitting outside for 30 minutes comparing notes and he insisted I join him for some vodka.. gave me his card, which has come in useful now and then inside my passport with the local police bandits

point is: if I'd smacked him (the arm was retracting) it would have been a different story.. maybe if you'd thrown a ball at the base ball bat gimp, you might have ended up playing some rounders..

different world - Moscba..

I think of Russia and one word works for me 'Barbarous'... but not barbaric... not friendly - more sort of 'what can I get from this if I get to know you..'

keep a sense of humour - if you don't you might just lose your mind!

camus
01-04-2004, 11:42
lyndsay,

I've seen some of what you're talking about but a guy who isn't piss drunk, refers to 13 year old girls as bitches and sluts, and who keeps a baseball bat in the trunk of his "pimpin' ride" (I don't it's there for pick up 'ball) is in a different league.

Peter

Timothy
01-04-2004, 11:47
What does Bidlo/Bidla mean?

camus
01-04-2004, 11:52
Timothy,

"bidla" is me mis-hearing the word "bidlo" (Moscow "a" and "o" are often indistinguishable)

"bidlo" is essentially a roughneck type.

Peter

DaveUKagain
01-04-2004, 13:10
Originally posted by sfjohns67
So explain to me the surly sonofabitch passed out and blocking my elevator this morning, who snarled at me when I shook him to see if he was dead or just drunk. Call it my own little spin on things, but he just doesn't quite seem to fit your "Muscovites are shiny happy people" profile.

SFJ, you should know the drill - alcoholics everywhere are trouble and best avoided, no matter what..... I`ve yet to meet a shiny happy alky. ;-)

natalia_apple
01-04-2004, 14:18
Originally posted by camus
tennis and badminton

I still would love to meet you and hopefully some other people as well for a game of badminton or tennis, the only problem I (and I think many other people too) had last time was that you proposed to meet on Friday night, which is a Drinks/Boozers night

How about, say, Sunday?

sfjohns67
01-04-2004, 14:35
Originally posted by DaveUKagain
SFJ, you should know the drill - alcoholics everywhere are trouble and best avoided, no matter what..... I`ve yet to meet a shiny happy alky. ;-)
Trust me, I am more familiar with said "alcoholic drill" than I'd like to be, to the point of usually being blase' about it. In this instance, however, the aforementioned SOB was passed out blocking the elevator my wife and mom-in-law use to get downstairs with my daughter in her carriage. These corksoakers are unpredictable at best, hence I'm sure you can understand my concern and my effort at rousting the icehole.

The thing that chaps my crank the most is that a phone call to the militsiya for them to come remove the idiot is met with the ubiquitous "nu i cho?" response. :mad:

QWERTYZ
02-04-2004, 01:40
btw bidlo has nothing with rednecks, it's people like sheep ...smth like that

БЫДЛО ср.
1. Рабочий рогатый скот.
2. перен. разг.-сниж. Люди, покорно подчиняющиеся чьей-л. воле, позволяющие эксплуатировать себя.

DaveUKagain
02-04-2004, 01:56
SFJ, next time he passes out, take a leak on his trousers. ;-))) Or. Write DRUNKEN BUM on his forehead in marker in Cyrillic. ;-)))) Revenge !!!! ;-)))))))

natalia_apple
02-04-2004, 01:58
Dave, I love your title!

DaveUKagain
02-04-2004, 02:04
Hehe - thanks, Nat. ;-) Heard the one about the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa ??? Or the dyslexic pimp who bought a warehouse ? (etc) ;-)

natalia_apple
02-04-2004, 02:06
would love to hear the stories!

Moscow Wolf
02-04-2004, 05:49
It was me, I was so drunk I missed him, next time Peter!

peyote
02-04-2004, 12:27
that's why alcohol should be illegal...
but if the guy holding the bat was smoking pot he would have never tried to hit you... that's for sure! and if he did, he would have hit the wrong guy, that is if he was lucky enough to hit anything at all... :D

ok, beer lovers, i was kidding about making it illegal... i'm for everything goes. except killing, war maniacs!

and for the worst indignity: ah those cashiers asking for rubles and kopeks! and when i say i don't have any they look at me as if my flying saucer was waiting outside... well it is waiting! hurry up! :D

Ned Kelly
02-04-2004, 12:52
Originally posted by peyote
and for the worst indignity: ah those cashiers asking for rubles and kopeks! and when i say i don't have any they look at me as if my flying saucer was waiting outside... well it is waiting! hurry up! :D

i must admit, looking at your avatar you shouldn;t be too harsh about those ladies and flying saucers:p

SpruceGoose
03-04-2004, 20:51
I think the peyote man has hit the nail on the head. This place would be completely different if we could get them choofing down camberwell carrots with some fine green. Just imagine the moscow traffic with every second car passing around a big scoob. 5Klm tops and everyone shit scarred of the rollers. But chilled out and loving it. A little bit of Jamaica on the circle line would be a trip and a half too.

My biggest indignity is waving away the honey seller when he was trying to explain something to me, and then getting home for my lovely wife to break into hysterics as she explained that I had purchased the 1Kg tub of laxative honey. It does taste good though.

DaveUKagain
03-04-2004, 21:02
Well, subtitute laxative honey for ganga for Mr Baseball bat, and I`m sure he couldn`t go around beating the tar (sorry :) ) out of people...... as for an alcohol ban in Russia - say wha` ? ;-))) No attempt at prohibiting vodka`s ever worked in either Russia, the USSR or Russia again...... ;)

SpruceGoose
03-04-2004, 21:27
Gidday Dave, I have just been reading your thread about smuggling diamonds and gold into the country. A man of vision! I wasnt proposing banning booze, just making dope compulsory (or rather not smoking of diminished social status - I'm not a Nazi after all) so that if they wanted to drink as well they would get those room circulatory effects happening with a deep voice in the background going 'do not fall off the chair' and another one going 'did i chew those carrots or eat them whole?' Either way I think you could take a lot of sting out of the violence fraternity (and I agree with you they are everywhere on this planet, and every last one of them super dumb) if they were 95% stoned.

BTW. Can I smuggle opals into this country. I notice they dont have them, and I can rustle up a load from boondocks Australia.

DaveUKagain
03-04-2004, 21:42
"Gidday Dave, I have just been reading your thread about smuggling diamonds and gold into the country." Eh eh eh what, eh ??????? Smuggling diamonds and gold ????? Cough splutter gasp - smuggling ???????????????????? Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus I never said that in me life !! ;-) Have you been on that there wacky backy then, Spruce Goose ? ;-))))

DaveUKagain
03-04-2004, 21:47
PS For information purposes only. ;-))) A lot of New Russians are alleged (allegedly) to have, er, walked through Customs on the way to a holiday to Keepr / Antalya / wherever with top quality diamonds set in old mounts, looking shabby. Russia also has no law regarding scrap gold and jewelry, but golds` worth nothing, really - not in smuggling terms. 1kg of 22kt gold - $11k, about. You can hold a million dollars in the palm of your hand (easily) where diamonds are concerned. And.... no market in opals, Spruce. Prices vary so wildly that if you`re not an expert, you can easily lose your shirt when buying `em. ;) Mind you, get `em soldered up into an "ethnic" looking necklace, but..... I never said it, guv. ;-))))

DaveUKagain
03-04-2004, 21:52
But back to the thread.......... :D

Anouk
04-04-2004, 18:18
I voted for "bidlo slapped me":mad: after I rejected his advances (fought him off) outside a bar. I was just standing with people dressed in jeans and sneakers, sober and minding my own business when he tried to (well he kind of did) indecently assault me. I laughed about it afterwards, but it could have been a lot worse if I hadn't fought back so hard and my friends weren't there.

But I agree with Fleur. I feel more safe in Moscow than in London.