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Democrats Abroad
29-03-2004, 12:59
Thanks to all who turned out for the Democrats Abroad launch this Sunday. We had 14 Democrats, two Russian observers, one reporter, and one person who simply wanted to register to vote.

We will be meeting next on Sunday, April 25, to hear various presentations and to approve a proposed publication. All are welcome to attend.

Denis
29-03-2004, 13:23
Vote for KERRY !

Zachariah
29-03-2004, 13:28
Denis,
Very well done!
A politician is a politician is a .................yada yada yada
Another liberal Democrat form MA. to replace the missing link!!
"Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss" YAWN.
Z

Democrats Abroad
29-03-2004, 13:33
March 15, 2004

Richard S. Foster, the nonpartisan Medicare actuary, confirmed this weekend that Bush administration officials threatened to fire him last year if he disclosed the true costs of the prescription-drug bill to Congress. Thomas Scully, head of the agency that oversees Medicare, repeatedly told Foster he would be terminated if he complied with requests from lawmakers to provide real cost estimates for the prescription drug legislation. Following these charges of intimidation, the public also learned this weekend that the Bush administration used actors posing as journalists to defend the Medicare bill in television segments produced for local stations. The administration's deceptions on Medicare continue to grow.

The Bush administration deceived Congress about the true costs of its radical changes to Medicare. Knowing the prescription-drug bill was a lemon, the Bush administration hid the real costs of the bill in order to quell concerns among skeptical Republicans and Democrats prior to passage. Only after Congress passed the bill – breaking rules to extend voting and employing threats and bribes to change lawmaker's votes in the process – did the Bush administration reveal the true costs and implications of its legislation.

The administration used taxpayer funds to deceive the American public about the implications of the Medicare bill. The General Accounting Office reports taxpayer funded fliers and advertisements touting the new Medicare law contained "notable omissions and other weaknesses" that distort facts about the changes in Medicare. Now the public finds out the administration created phony news segments – on the public’s dime – using actors posing as journalists to defend the faulty Medicare bill.
Congress must fully investigate the circumstances surrounding the passage of the Medicare legislation. Congress should follow the lead of Representatives Rahm Emanuel (D-IL), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Rosa DeLauro (D-CT), Pete Stark (D-CA) and Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and fully investigate all charges of intimidation and deception involved with the prescription-drug bill.

Zachariah
29-03-2004, 13:45
So, what is your alternative to "reduce taxes and spend like a lottery winner" Republicans? Oh,.............. Just "tax & spend" Quite the alternative. And what did the Dems & Republicans do with Social Security? Can you tell us in less than 4 paragraphs which no one will read.
Thanks,
Z

pengwn9
29-03-2004, 13:48
Surely you remember the last 'election'? Overseas ballots dribbled in for months after election day and were finally just thrown away.

No point in getting your knickers in a knot (:D ) over any of this. Your vote doesn't count for shit anyway and it won't get there till after Christmas.

Living in Russia is a great reason to ignore all the usual boring political posturing we usually get TV-bombed with in the States. Take advantage of it while you can. Enjoy.

Zachariah
29-03-2004, 13:50
Originally posted by pengwn9
Surely you remember the last 'election'? Overseas ballots dribbled in for months after election day and were finally just thrown away.

No point in getting your knickers in a knot (:D ) over any of this. Your vote doesn't count for shit anyway and it won't get there till after Christmas.

Living in Russia is a great reason to ignore all the usual boring political posturing we usually get TV-bombed with in the States. Take advantage of it while you can. Enjoy.

EXACTLY!!! I vote NO on the American political process until we are offered choice beside the "least of 2 evils"
Z

ReturnOfBroadmoor
29-03-2004, 14:02
Sharpton for America!!

Democrats Abroad
29-03-2004, 14:32
So, what is your alternative to "reduce taxes and spend like a lottery winner" Republicans? Oh,.............. Just "tax & spend" Quite the alternative. And what did the Dems & Republicans do with Social Security? Can you tell us in less than 4 paragraphs which no one will read.

Simply put, we have reduced federal taxes as a proportion of GDP to the lowest levels in over 40 years. Fine, if you cut spending too. However, the tax cuts enacted by Bush did little to lay the basis for even short term expansion (most of the money went to the upper brackets, who are unlikely to turn it back to the economy). At the same time, these cuts cover the shortfall in Social Security funding.

Social Security Obligations - Bush Tax Cuts = Underfunded mandate

uninformed
29-03-2004, 14:47
Originally posted by Zachariah
EXACTLY!!! I vote NO on the American political process until we are offered choice beside the "least of 2 evils"
Z There is a clear and distinct difference or perhaps you haven't noticed that Bush's policies are dramatically different from Clintons or Reagan's from Carter's. There is more to this than the "lesser of two evils." There are no liberals or progressives in this race but you have a radical/religious imperialist president versus a more Nixon-like Republican (sans Watergate). Nixon created the EPA, for example, while Bush would turn it into a booster for business. We could go on about abortion (one for and one against), gay marriage (one wants a constitutional amendment), etc etc.

I suspect you are just too lazy to vote.

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 14:53
American elections are too important for the world for red-neck, abortion-debating, uneducated, Mcdonalds-scoffing yanks to decide. I think the rest of the world should vote for the US president: sort of like a reverse Iraq, a regime imposed, with a balanced and intelligent leader, without missiles or killing.

kak
29-03-2004, 15:02
truly said Ned and if i have to vote, i won't vote bush
so try this:
http://www.bushmustlose.com/
http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html
http://www.extremelysmart.com/humor/dubyaresume.php
and this
http://www.thefourreasons.org/
and after, just think a bit

Democrats Abroad
29-03-2004, 15:04
The obvious distaste in much of the world for the current administration IS having an effect on the US political debate. I don't think we need to give Zimbabwe electoral college votes.

BTW, Democrats Abroad meetings are open to other nationalities (on an observer basis), as such international input is welcome, and the experiences and attitudes of other countries are certainly worth debating and considering.

kak
29-03-2004, 15:06
I do not understand that some american can still believe in bush administration......it's time to wake up, yesterday my country woke up, and that's great news :agree:

Democrats Abroad
29-03-2004, 15:06
Here is another great site:

http://www.billionairesforbush.com

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 15:11
Originally posted by kakrout
I do not understand that some american can still believe in bush administration......it's time to wake up, yesterday my country woke up, and that's great news :agree:

your country woke up and voted for le pen! what are you talking about? get back under your lilly pad.

one thing i like bush is everyone has an opinion on him. he doesn;t leave people wondering where they stand:p

Zachariah
29-03-2004, 15:19
Originally posted by Democrats Abroad
Simply put, we have reduced federal taxes as a proportion of GDP to the lowest levels in over 40 years. Fine, if you cut spending too. However, the tax cuts enacted by Bush did little to lay the basis for even short term expansion (most of the money went to the upper brackets, who are unlikely to turn it back to the economy). At the same time, these cuts cover the shortfall in Social Security funding.

Social Security Obligations - Bush Tax Cuts = Underfunded mandate

Thank you for making it readable.

Give me a politician who has a stake in Social Security (actually pays into it) and is not bought and paid for by a PAC or other special interest. Both parties have been busting their collective tails to pull the guts out of the watered down campaign bill which was past last year.

Enough of career politicos with no interest in anyone but themselves.
Regards,
Z

IRS_Runner
29-03-2004, 15:26
Hmm.. I've never voted before but will this time probably, but don't like either one of these two guys :rolleyes:

If only McCain and Edwards would be given "The Force" I'd be one happy camper :D


To bad we can't vote for Putin as US president :p

kak
29-03-2004, 15:36
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
your country woke up and voted for le pen! what are you talking about? get back under your lilly pad.

one thing i like bush is everyone has an opinion on him. he doesn;t leave people wondering where they stand:p

Ned, why do you think that you are more informed about french election than i am??? I do not know what are your daily newspapers, but... here comes the true fact: people have voted for left. There are 22 regions in france (included dom-tom) since yesterday, 19 of this regions are owned by left, 3 by right (only one in metropole actually) and a BIG ZERO for FN. Get well informed before starting to write stupid things.

Zachariah
29-03-2004, 15:39
Originally posted by kakrout
I do not understand that some american can still believe in bush administration......it's time to wake up, yesterday my country woke up, and that's great news :agree:

When did this awakening happen?

Ghost
29-03-2004, 15:39
Originally posted by kakrout
I do not understand that some american can still believe in bush administration......it's time to wake up, yesterday my country woke up, and that's great news :agree:

Dennis was right. Voting for Kerry makes the French happy.

I think I'll vote for Bush.

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 15:41
i don't pretend to be more informed, i was just trying to irritate you.

however your "awakened" french electorate gave the largest proportion of a vote to an extremist leader in europe in a long time (two years ago the french election if i remember). it was a pretty sad indictment on france, the thinking european.

as to the socialists, i remember m. mitterand ordering the blowing up of the rainbow warrior in new zealand. i don't think george bush would've done that (or at least he would've had the decency to go in and take over the whole country openly).

Ghost
29-03-2004, 15:42
Originally posted by kakrout
Ned, why do you think that you are more informed about french election than i am??.

Why do you think you're more informed about American politics than he is? Both of you are stating an opinion. You don't like his, that's fine. But you have no more ground to stand on in your rant about Bush and the American election than Ned has in mentioning the Frogs. Or no less.

-Ghost

Limitchik
29-03-2004, 15:46
I just love Brie cheese !

kak
29-03-2004, 15:46
Originally posted by Ghost
Dennis was right. Voting for Kerry makes the French happy.

I think I'll vote for Bush.

Did i say that you have to vote to Kerry?,
U can still vote for nobody. a bulletin vote with no name.

just said that i won't vote for Bush, and i think that every american who is going to vote for him will do a mistake for sure, just try one of my link, just true facts
but can you face them??

Limitchik
29-03-2004, 15:48
It's just super when heated up.

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 15:49
yes, fondue! yum!:p

Random
29-03-2004, 15:52
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
i don't pretend to be more informed, i was just trying to irritate you.

however your "awakened" french electorate gave the largest proportion of a vote to an extremist leader in europe in a long time (two years ago the french election if i remember). it was a pretty sad indictment on france, the thinking european.

as to the socialists, i remember m. mitterand ordering the blowing up of the rainbow warrior in new zealand. i don't think george bush would've done that (or at least he would've had the decency to go in and take over the whole country openly).

Yes and he blew up atol's with nukes - thus creating the biggest boycott of french wines ever, allowing the rest of the world to have a crack at it ! You gotta love him for that ! French wine industry (with out the premier cru's) has been on its knees ever since !!

Ghost
29-03-2004, 15:53
No, I said that if we voted for Bush it would make the French happy, and that Denis was correct (see second post in this thread - image attached). Since you are French, and posted that you couldn't understand why any American would vote for Bush, I made the leap (no Frog pun intended) that you would also be happy.

Clear now?

Est-il difficile de comprendre?

-Ghost

kak
29-03-2004, 15:54
Originally posted by Ghost
Why do you think you're more informed about American politics than he is? Both of you are stating an opinion. You don't like his, that's fine. But you have no more ground to stand on in your rant about Bush and the American election than Ned has in mentioning the Frogs. Or no less.

-Ghost

I think Ned is brit...not american so what the trouble??
I do not know kerry and i didn't say this guy would be great..just said that Bush is a Cretin with a big "C" a lier a dangerous guy who mix religion with politics, so if i had a choice i would not vote for him.
nothing against America, Americans, just somthing against Bush.
for info i also think that our president is a great Cretin as well, that's why i'm happy today that the right was defeat yesterday.
as for Ned, you know i didn't say either that i loved everything that Mitterand has done, i'm just from the left part that's it.
And as you said two years ago, it was a nightmare, so when you have to choose beetween a Chirac and a Hitler you choose a chirac. no other choice my friend.

kak
29-03-2004, 15:59
Limit and Ned you should try "Raclette" ;)

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 15:59
Ned's Australian, thank you.

Yes, but underlying every society is the choices its people make. So Americans elect Bush, you wonder what they're thinking. A large swathe of the French electorate vote for Le Pen and put him in the second round, you wonder about French society.

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 16:02
now i feel like a dickhead for writing that after a culinary suggestion. life's too short to talk politics, i'm going to the other thread to fight with amnda hugandkiss.

kak
29-03-2004, 16:10
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
Ned's Australian, thank you.

Yes, but underlying every society is the choices its people make. So Americans elect Bush, you wonder what they're thinking. A large swathe of the French electorate vote for Le Pen and put him in the second round, you wonder about French society.

ok Australian, ..."you wonder about french society" you know Ned, you are absolutly right. Just thinking about the fact that 1/6 of french electorate is just brainless makes me sick.
It just a true fact, 1/6 french is just astupid asshole with no brain, I'm just happy to be on the other side.
You know, i'm not blind and i'm not a "patriotic guy' i'm able to see that my country is sick in a way, i'm just trying to find a way to make it better, i think yesterday was maybe a new start.
I think i do not feel as upset as american people when it comes to criticize contry/president. My idea is just that Bush is a danger for America/World, and i thin i'm quite well informed about what he has done. so...americanspeople please, just think a bit for your future.

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 16:23
see the thing is my french friend (and i respect your honesty), there's probably not a huge difference between the two governing groups: they come from the same educational institutions and are essentially the same elite. so the only way you can change things fundamentally is to line the entire french governing class up against a wall and shoot it and start again.

it was inspirational in 1789 and could be again!

kak
29-03-2004, 16:29
you may be right, you surely right, the difference is light, and difficult to see clearly and that's why we had what we had two years ago.....Revolution may happen Ned, it may. but last point : the right side did make alliance with FN in the past...I think the left side will prefer die than to do so.

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 16:34
Originally posted by kakrout
you may be right, you surely right, the difference is light, and difficult to see clearly and that's why we had what we had two years ago.....Revolution may happen Ned, it may. but last point : the right side did make alliance with FN in the past...I think the left side will prefer die than to do so.

yes, but i'm not sure the trots are such good bedfellows either. anyway, there are enough problems in australia for me to go poking my nose into french issues.

kak
29-03-2004, 16:37
and i'm not well informed about australia politics than you are about french ;) so i cannot say anything to you. To end this, just follow my advice, if you can, try the "Raclette" ;) :)

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 16:39
Originally posted by kakrout
and i'm not well informed about australia politics

you're not missing anything.

a french friend i think was suggesting raclette to me the other day. i'll take your advice

kak
29-03-2004, 16:46
i'm stealing that thread ;) http://www.bienmanger.com/2F12_Raclette.html
was difficult to find an explanation in english ;)

Ned Kelly
29-03-2004, 16:48
Originally posted by kakrout
i'm stealing that thread ;) http://www.bienmanger.com/2F12_Raclette.html
was difficult to find an explanation in english ;)

I've had it! It's delicious.

kak
29-03-2004, 16:50
;)

Zachariah
29-03-2004, 16:59
Originally posted by uninformed
There is a clear and distinct difference or perhaps you haven't noticed that Bush's policies are dramatically different from Clintons or Reagan's from Carter's.
I suspect you are just too lazy to vote.


Wrong, I do vote and often:p The lazy ones are the people who blindly accept a corrupt 2 party system.

Give me back my constitution and bill of rights intact without some interpretation from a flavor of the month supreme court. Free country my a**s, the U.S has not been free since my Great Grandaddy homesteaded in the 1880's. Carter farm policy removed it from our possession in the late 70's

Americans are more than happy to give up someone elses' rights for a false sense of security. President Hillary took away our right to firearms and Mr. Ashcroft's "Dept. of Security for the Fatherland" pretty much guts the rest of the document.
Regards,
Z

rosieredwood
29-03-2004, 17:30
Originally posted by Zachariah
Wrong, I do vote and often:p The lazy ones are the people who blindly accept a corrupt 2 party system.

Give me back my constitution and bill of rights intact without some interpretation from a flavor of the month supreme court. Free country my a**s, the U.S has not been free since my Great Grandaddy homesteaded in the 1880's. Carter farm policy removed it from our possession in the late 70's

Americans are more than happy to give up someone elses' rights for a false sense of security. President Hillary took away our right to firearms and Mr. Ashcroft's "Dept. of Security for the Fatherland" pretty much guts the rest of the document.
Regards,
Z

Is 'dat you Billy-Joe Bob? Ain't you be needing to tend ta' ya' moonshine?

Zachariah
29-03-2004, 17:48
Originally posted by rosieredwood
Is 'dat you Billy-Joe Bob? Ain't you be needing to tend ta' ya' moonshine?

Not even close, I refuse to be politically correct

trackhat
30-03-2004, 23:29
Ohh noooo.... Le Pen... such a fascist.... can't have that... we must be tolerant... we must be diverse... We must give everyone the chance to succeed.... They say they want democracy but it's only about their friends' oil contracts because we all know who paid for their campaigns...


Don't people get tired of saying the same boring things over and over again to sound like the voice of reason or rationality? People don't vote for LePen because they think he's going to win. People vote for LePen as the ultimate Protiv Vsyo to the whole democratic process. Sure, when you're making 185 k and your kids are in elite schools and your car is in the upper 10th percentile of cars marketed in your tri-state area, you want right-minded neo-liberals to introduce incremental yet effective infrastructural enhancements so as to provide better lives for everyone, but when you're poor and have nothing to look back to but a lifetime of missed opportunities, you want to turn on EuroNews and watch children get butchered and cities get burned.

Unless you're a chick, in which case you turn to Jesus or start yoga.