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SalTheReturn
07-03-2008, 23:41
Dear All,
teacher will ask me to review this during our next lesson on Mon.
Are there mistakes? How bad/good is it?
Task was to invent a letter of protest and send it in to a newspaper
Thanks a lot for your help
Sal

Dear Editor,

as one of your long time reader I was very disappointed when noticing the ingenuousness with which your staff columnist Mr.Hill commented on Russia's recent presidential elections.
The idea of Putin being a sort of “dictator” (yes, the very same term was used by Mr.Hill in his latest attempt to enlighten readers on the savagery of Russia) has now been on the western press for ages, so I really do not feel like attacking Hill for having followed what appears to be quite an established trend within the editorial world. Nevertheless, all papers need di forte impatto*** headlines to keep the sales going, and yours seems like it is not going to be the exception.

Is there a difference between following a trend, and reverting to deliberately slander a president who was democratically voted? Yes in my opinion, but this seems to escape the sophisticated mind of journalists like Mr.Hill. The fact I find particularly annoying is that he is not only offending the russian president, but denigrating the whole country of Russia. At least I would appreciate if he had taken the time to check its facts before publishing that nonsensical rant.

No one is arguing that the russian political system is either free of guilts or a fine example of the democracy advocated by westerners, but accusing Putin and his allies of obtaining votes through the intimidation of their political opposers sounds simply ridicolous. Neither Putin nor his allies needs to intimidate the opposition and the reason is simple: there are currently no politicians in Russia which would be able to get more than a few votes. Did Mr.Hill ever bother to read the polls? I do not think Putin's success can be reduced to the demagogy Mr.Hill has resorted to in his article.
The truth is that Russians likes Putin, and if the West is not ready to digest it, that is not something the populations should be concerned with.

Having said that, I wish Mr.Hill could really reconsider his career, no doubts he would be better off writing out comic strips.

With best compliments
John (London, UK)

***
impactful? i mean sht that will inevitably produce shock between readers

alterego
07-03-2008, 23:57
A lot of mistakes but it is understandable.

SalTheReturn
08-03-2008, 02:25
A lot of mistakes but it is understandable.

grammar mistakes? logical mistakes? lexic?

could you pls point a few?

alterego
08-03-2008, 18:05
Dear Editor

As one of your

one of your long time readers

when I noticed

president Putin

slandering

democratically elected.

Yes, in my opinion,

Sophisticated mind of (you accuse them of slandering and then you resort to sarcasm?)

Russian president

His facts

Russian political

free of guilt (corrected from ‘guilts’ but still the wrong phrase)

Westerners

political opponents

ridiculous

need to intimidate

success can be reduced to the demagogy Mr.Hill has resorted to in his article
(correcting this would take more time than I am willing to spend)

Russians like

digest it(maybe ‘accept it’)

population (corrected but still a poor word choice)

concerned with.(using ‘concerned’ just makes me wonder what the intended purpose of this sentence was)

would really reconsider

no doubt

SalTheReturn
08-03-2008, 19:00
thank you, i will try to improve my writing through your corrections

let me think i still think there is a huge difference in the way europeans write and english write

it seems that all english people stick to the rule "less is more", that any sentence mustn't be more than 2 lines and any concept must rely on easier vocabulary (ie. to accept rather than to digest)

you also said my letter had lots of mistakes, I am curious to see what my scottish teacher thinks about that

telling "it is full of mistakes" means it was poorly written

how would you rate the proficiency of my writing in that letter? elementary, intermediate, advanced?

then i really dont understand why i cant accuse them of slandering and then resort to sarcasm

what does it mean sarcasm for you?

take care, thanks for editing a bit

Sal

alterego
08-03-2008, 20:29
It's not that a sentence should be limited to two lines but it should be limited to two ideas. Consequently it tends to be short. I didn't even address your rather long sentences.

Simple words are not expected but correct ones are. 'Digest' means to spend time thinking about. I don't think that is what you wanted. If 'accept' is too simple for you then you could use
adopt
admit
accede
acknowledge
bear
bow to
recognize
agree to/with
suffer
concur

none of these means exactly accept so you would choose the one that had the nuances that you want.

I would say that your spelling is upper intermediate
your sentence grammar is upper intermediate
your vocabulary is intermediate
and your persuasive writing style is intermediate at best

SalTheReturn
08-03-2008, 21:06
Thanks again Alterego

so what do you think about the level of my TOEFL's simulation?

http://www.expat.ru/forum/teachers-discussion-folder/67796-my-teacher-sais-im-ready-fortoefl.html

why my spelling just intermediate? where i made mistakes?

to be honest i think my ability to spell in english is at least advanced

even when studying in england i didnt have problems with the various "beneath" "through" though", etc... my englis classmates had

as concern my vocabulary, thats not intermediate at all, you are the first teacher telling me that

PS. this is just to talk, i appreciate your advice even if it is negative about my performance. i am a student, you are a native and a teacher

alterego
08-03-2008, 21:28
why my spelling just intermediate? where i made mistakes?


Did I waste my time listing your mistakes earlier in the thread?

SalTheReturn
08-03-2008, 22:28
no you did not waste my time and i am curious whatt teacher will tell me mon and how she will edit the letter

does not a spelling mistake implies that i wrote bad a word?

ie,
not "through" but "trough"

where i made such mistakes in my letter?

are you sure some of my spelling is not highly accepted in UK?

why it does not make sense

it is not something a population should be concerned with

it means that they should not care about what the west say

elis
08-03-2008, 22:46
Did I waste my time listing your mistakes earlier in the thread?


no you did not waste my time and i am curious whatt teacher will tell me mon and how she will edit the letter

does not a spelling mistake implies that i wrote bad a word?

ie,
not "through" but "trough"

where i made such mistakes in my letter?

are you sure some of my spelling is not highly accepted in UK?

why it does not make sense

it is not something a population should be concerned with

it means that they should not care about what the west say

Please note whose time is being referred to. (Sorry, ended the the sentence in a preposition, but all this seems colloquial enough.)

Gypsy
09-03-2008, 03:15
Thanks again Alterego

So what do you think about the level of my TOEFL's simulation?

http://www.expat.ru/forum/teachers-discussion-folder/67796-my-teacher-says-I'm-ready-for toefl.html

Why is my spelling just intermediate? Where have I made mistakes?

To be honest I think my ability to spell in english is at least advanced.

Even when studying in England I didn't have problems with the various "beneath" "through" though", etc... my english classmates had.

As concerns my vocabulary, that's not intermediate at all, you are the first teacher to tell me that.

PS. this is just to talk, I appreciate your advice even if it is negative about my performance. I am a student, you are a native and a teacher
Sal - the letters etc in bold are corrections to what you wrote.

Count them - 21 corrections in 111 words; do you really think you are Advanced?

Alterego has taken time to help you and you respond with insults. I would say his assessment was a little generous actually.

alterego
09-03-2008, 06:13
Sal, either your English is worse than I thought or you just have an ego problem which is limiting your effective use of any communication.

What has been refered to as my generous appraisal of your English was based on the letter that you wrote for your assignment. Although not perfect, it was head and shoulders above anything else you have written in this forum.

kirk10071
09-03-2008, 10:59
Sal, either your English is worse than I thought or you just have an ego problem which is limiting your effective use of any communication.

What has been refered to as my generous appraisal of your English was based on the letter that you wrote for your assignment. Although not perfect, it was head and shoulders above anything else you have written in this forum.

Just get a spell checker. Even in the thread you called "My teacher sais I am ready for TOEFL" you spelled the word "says" wrong. And use a dictionary and use Google. You can search for specific combination of words and if you don't find it, you know it not typically used in that combination. Just use the tools you have and you will find yourself improving rapidly.

Alterego's corrections are right on the money. I agree 100% with all of them.

Malypense
09-03-2008, 11:12
If you don't want to type your posts into Word first so that you can use spell check, try using Firefox; it has a spell checker built in when you post, so you get little red lines under the suspect words. :thumbsup:

Gypsy
09-03-2008, 12:00
If you don't want to type your posts into Word first so that you can use spell check, try using Firefox; it has a spell checker built in when you post, so you get little red lines under the suspect words. :thumbsup:

Does Firefox do grammar checks as well?

With Word the green underline shows you when the grammar is suspect, or when you've used "their" instead of "there" or "they're", as Bels does for example.

Malypense
09-03-2008, 12:43
No grammar check as far as I know.

I think there's only so far a computer can go to try to correct that kind of abuse of English! You have to have a sound basic knowledge (acquired by listening to good teachers) and be willing to learn if you want any hope of advancing.

SalTheReturn
09-03-2008, 12:47
Sal - the letters etc in bold are corrections to what you wrote.

Count them - 21 corrections in 111 words; do you really think you are Advanced?

Alterego has taken time to help you and you respond with insults. I would say his assessment was a little generous actually.

I know this was coming loser

the way i write on the forum has nothing to do with the way i would write when required to do it good

this is a forum, not an academic test and not a job

get yourself a frigging life (does this sound advanced enough?)

SalTheReturn
09-03-2008, 12:49
and usually out of 50 english questions from the very elementary ones to the very advanced I score 44 answers right

now i am anyway setting up an audio file, expat.ru will have to teach me english accent

Malypense
09-03-2008, 12:51
I know this was coming loser

the way i write on the forum has nothing to do with the way i would write when required to do it good

this is a forum, not an academic test and not a job

get yourself a frigging life (does this sound advanced enough?)Your reaction is very rude SalTheReturn. People have taken the time and effort to help you and you jump down their throats when they do.

Surely you should take every opportunity to advance your English and this site should be your practice ground, if not then it is a waste of a great resource. It doesn't matter if it's for a job or anything you consider important, you have the chance here to interract with anglophones and benefit from their knowledge but you prefer to insult them. You're missing out on a great (free!) opportunity.

SalTheReturn
09-03-2008, 12:59
Your reaction is very rude SalTheReturn. People have taken the time and effort to help you and you jump down their throats when they do.

Surely you should take every opportunity to advance your English and this site should be your practice ground, if not then it is a waste of a great resource. It doesn't matter if it's for a job or anything you consider important, you have the chance here to interract with anglophones and benefit from their knowledge but you chose to insult them. You're missing out on a great (free!) opportunity.


GUYS DO GET YOURSELF A LIFE

WHERE DO YOU COME FROM? WHO ARE YOU?

I was being rude to Gypsy not to other posters who I fully virtually respect

So you may preach on but do not forget that most of your words will go unlistened

should you really be useful pls edit my next homework

you take care

Sal

Gypsy
09-03-2008, 13:23
Sal, everyone who has responded here has offered you help, and you have attacked and insulted all of them.

I do not know alterego or his/her profession but his corrections looked OK to me.
You have then managed to insult the knowledge of a superbly qualified english teacher, in fact an examiner (of potential teachers),for one of the principal institutes; and a practising lawyer.

You cannot switch good english on and off because this is a forum. If you want to be considered Advanced you have to make it second nature. That means practice, and this is an excellent place to do that.

You asked for help, people gave it freely. then you insulted all of them.

Why should anyone help you in future?

SalTheReturn
09-03-2008, 14:47
Sal, everyone who has responded here has offered you help, and you have attacked and insulted all of them.

I do not know alterego or his/her profession but his corrections looked OK to me.
You have then managed to insult the knowledge of a superbly qualified english teacher, in fact an examiner (of potential teachers),for one of the principal institutes; and a practising lawyer.

You cannot switch good english on and off because this is a forum. If you want to be considered Advanced you have to make it second nature. That means practice, and this is an excellent place to do that.

You asked for help, people gave it freely. then you insulted all of them.

Why should anyone help you in future?

Dear Gypsy, I am really starting to love you.

Let's answer your last question first:
they should help because I am also ready to help. They should help because who cares about what SalTheReturn says? Is that a big deal?
THIS IS THE INTERNET MATE AND NOT A GROUP OF PEOPLE SITTING AT THE SAME TABLE.
You would be surprised in discovering how well we would get along in real life, even if I suspect for fascists-proclaiming-themselves-liberals like you it is hard to separate SalTheReturn from the person behind the product.

I will tell you a nice story, 2 yrs ago one girl who was a regular forum reader, ask me if i was SalParadise and of course I said yes. After than she decided to stop our friendship...it was amazing mate!!! I always behaved good with her, being a nice guy, but reading the crap of my product was enough for her to tell me bye. I insisted few times in explaining her that I was not SalParadise, but differently from me, she cannot separate the 2 things.

The above illustrated mechanism dear Gypsy it is the same causing death and genocides. Believe me it is the same who was leading americans to burn thirld worlders in a public square!!!

How interesting is that Gypsy? crazily interesting my friend

my english is advanced when it needs to be advanced my dear friend, no big deal everyone knows it nowdays

PS. I deny having offended Alterego or someone else in here, except you.

Gypsy
09-03-2008, 15:57
Sal, for you to offend me I'd have to care.

SalTheReturn
09-03-2008, 16:19
Sal, for you to offend me I'd have to care.

in fact i do not deny having been rude w/u but guess deal was reciprocal

now man lets get over this ok?

you take care

Sal

ezik
09-03-2008, 16:36
If a person asks a teacher for a verdict and the verdict is worse than expected, then why attack the teacher?

Let's keep this constructive, ok?

Also, please, Sal, if you think that you got enough feedback on this letter, let me know so I can close the thread. I don't want this to turn into an endless discussion where people end up blaming eachother.

Sorry, all, for my intermediate English :D

MickeyTong
09-03-2008, 17:22
Sal, everyone who has responded here has offered you help, and you have attacked and insulted all of them.....You asked for help, people gave it freely. then you insulted all of them.

Yes, he does this. So, I no longer respond to his requests for help with English.

SalTheReturn
09-03-2008, 17:58
Yes, he does this. So, I no longer respond to his requests for help with English.

you keep making me sad MickeyTong, I respect you and you do not respect me and all you are up for is slandering me.

yes, if your help must come with lies and insults, i would rather stay without it.

Yes Ezik pls close the thread

Yours

Sal

MickeyTong
09-03-2008, 18:20
I have never insulted you.

SalTheReturn
09-03-2008, 18:26
I have never insulted you.

me neither dear Mickey and i am sorry if you ever thought like that.
take care
Sal

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 22:04
Generally very good and eloquent letter with good control and choices of grammar-syntax-vocabulary. Much of the letter sounds like it has been written by an educated native speaker, which makes the mistakes sound very odd.

btw digest was ok but she wrote "digest this fact" because "it" was fine but too weak

did she lie to me? or maybe your comments were too demeaning of my work?

Gypsy
10-03-2008, 22:23
Much of the letter sounds like it has been written by an educated native speaker, which makes the mistakes sound very odd.



Firstly - no one demeaned your work, some suggested that you were not "Advanced" - that is not an insult although you chose to take it as one - which sort of proves it right.

Secondly - read what your teacher wrote Sal, it sounds more like a warning to me. She appears to be suggesting that she does not believe you wrote the piece. And since you have on this forum asked native english speakers to do your homework for you I think she has good reason.

kirk10071
10-03-2008, 22:28
Probably it's best if we never help you again. No good deed goes unpunished.

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 22:33
Probably it's best if we never help you again. No good deed goes unpunished.

why u shouldnt help me? it takes nothing for you, it ist just a little gesture of solidarity towards me

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 22:34
Firstly - no one demeaned your work, some suggested that you were not "Advanced" - that is not an insult although you chose to take it as one - which sort of proves it right.

Secondly - read what your teacher wrote Sal, it sounds more like a warning to me. She appears to be suggesting that she does not believe you wrote the piece. And since you have on this forum asked native english speakers to do your homework for you I think she has good reason.

what a lot of crap!!! LOL LOL LOL

why would i ever do that?

and if you see my TOEFL's simulation got the highest mark.

no man, i do not hand in other people work

i

kirk10071
10-03-2008, 22:41
why u shouldnt help me? it takes nothing for you, it ist just a little gesture of solidarity towards me

Exactly the reason not to do it. You just attack the people trying to help.

Clearly you think your English is better than it is. And your teacher even "sais" you are ready for your test. You have a teacher who says you are at the level of the educated native speaker. What do you need us for? (And what do we need you for?)

MissAnnElk
10-03-2008, 22:42
Secondly - read what your teacher wrote Sal, it sounds more like a warning to me. She appears to be suggesting that she does not believe you wrote the piece. And since you have on this forum asked native english speakers to do your homework for you I think she has good reason.

This was my point at the beginning of this thread. I've taught ESL, and, difficult as it may be for you to believe, it is screamingly obvious when a student has not done his or her own work. (I had a class where they ALL copied off the back of a book when asked to write a book report. Honestly, I had ten reports that all said, "Tom was a clever boy, too clever for his aunt . . .")

It is always best to do your own work and then ask specific questions.

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 23:10
This was my point at the beginning of this thread. I've taught ESL, and, difficult as it may be for you to believe, it is screamingly obvious when a student has not done his or her own work. (I had a class where they ALL copied off the back of a book when asked to write a book report. Honestly, I had ten reports that all said, "Tom was a clever boy, too clever for his aunt . . .")

It is always best to do your own work and then ask specific questions.

tell me one thing MissAnnElk...do you really think i have copied it?

why?

i have studied in the UK for over a year, successfully attended university and put lots of effort in my homework.

also i am not so stupid to copy it...whats the point of that?

this is not a university course, i am not looking for good marks but just to have a better chance to understand the english language

i make mistakes when i do not care but if i care my english writing can really be pretty good

ESL...well, does not sound impressive at all, did you get it studying yr qualification studying for a month in a 3rd world country?

Kirk, i need you because for me it is important to listen to other native speakers

i do not think my teacher has any pleasure in lying me

my letter was good, not perfect

MissAnnElk
10-03-2008, 23:11
I didn't see what you turned in. I don't think you plagarized. I just think you get more for your tuition Euro when you do the work. Making mistakes is part of the learning process.

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 23:12
Exactly the reason not to do it. You just attack the people trying to help.

Clearly you think your English is better than it is. And your teacher even "sais" you are ready for your test. You have a teacher who says you are at the level of the educated native speaker. What do you need us for? (And what do we need you for?)

have you ever talked to me mate? how do you know my english is bad?

i am not saying it is perfect i am saying that, considering it is 6 yrs i left london, i still remember lots of stuff and really never had troubles understanding native speakers

my pronounciation sucks anyway

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 23:12
I didn't see what you turned in.

"turn in" means "hand in"?

you did not see my letter you mean?

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 23:16
anyway you are amazing guys

now, despite the fact we do not even know each other (LOL LOL LOL), you are ready to pick on my english!!!

is that the same mechanism according to which you are ready to judge the person behind SalTheReturn? LOL LOL LOL

i thought MissAnnElk (not that i care of course!!!) at least i showed you that i am not only SalTheReturn but also a correct person, ready to help people, and generally nice

MissAnnElk
10-03-2008, 23:16
"turn in" means "hand in"?

you did not see my letter you mean?

Yes. Turn in = hand in

And yes: I did not see what you gave to the teacher.

MissAnnElk
10-03-2008, 23:19
anyway you are amazing guys

now, despite the fact we do not even know each other (LOL LOL LOL), you are ready to pick on my english!!!

You ASKED us to! "Please have a Look!!!" is the title of the thread, no?

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 23:21
You ASKED us to! "Please have a Look!!!" is the title of the thread, no?

i asked to edit my homework, not for an impeachment!!!

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 23:21
Yes. Turn in = hand in

And yes: I did not see what you gave to the teacher.

but yet you were up for demeaning my hard work!!!

pretty rich from you, really

MickeyTong
10-03-2008, 23:28
now, despite the fact we do not even know each other (LOL LOL LOL), you are ready to pick on my english!!!

I don't think I, any of the other native speakers on this forum, make any critique of posts made by non-native speakers unless comment has been requested. You frequently invite comments on your written English, and our comments are made in good faith but are received with bad grace by you. You asked for help with the subjunctive: I gave some help and you said I was deliberately misleading you.....
Others have given comment when you have asked, and your responses have been hostile.
So...Sal, your English is perfect! You don't need any native speakers to correct you - congratulations!
Take care :applause:

SalTheReturn
10-03-2008, 23:33
I don't think I, any of the other native speakers on this forum, make any critique of posts made by non-native speakers unless comment has been requested. You frequently invite comments on your written English, and our comments are made in good faith but are received with bad grace by you. You asked for help with the subjunctive: I gave some help and you said I was deliberately misleading you.....
Others have given comment when you have asked, and your responses have been hostile.
So...Sal, your English is perfect! You don't need any native speakers to correct you - congratulations!
Take care :applause:

MickeyTong, you are not talking to a fool even if you like thinking so.

So please everytime you address to me, remember on the other side there is an educated adult and put aside your low sarcasm.

By the way I fully deny the behaviour you are trying to imputate to me.

MickeyTong
10-03-2008, 23:37
Impute

MickeyTong
10-03-2008, 23:39
Furthermore, I wasn't being sarcastic, i was being facetious.

MickeyTong
10-03-2008, 23:48
Well, perhaps with an overlay of sarcasm.....

MickeyTong
10-03-2008, 23:49
MickeyTong, you are not talking to a fool even if you like thinking so.

So please everytime you address to me, remember on the other side there is an educated adult and put aside your low sarcasm.

By the way I fully deny the behaviour you are trying to imputate to me.
"MickeyTong, you have hijacked such a huge number of my threads that currently my mum and me are deciding if you should forgive you or not.
You then mislead me on the use of the subjunctive purposely trying to have the UK educational system to reject my application."

Balderdash

SalTheReturn
11-03-2008, 00:05
i must have been possessed by SalTheReturn by then, nevertheless you are a psychoterapist and you know how certain things work

what does it mean facetious?

and overlay?

thanks, regards

Sal