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View Full Version : now isn't that nice - killed- Russian journalist is well and alive and gives press conference



Benedikt
31-05-2018, 05:34
https://themoscowtimes.com/
this is a story by John le Carre, Dan Brown or any other of the big writers could not have thought it out better...
-it had to be done this way-. and he even apologized to his wife. what a nice guy.
waiting for it to be a Hollywood -major- film production...
by the way, has anyone ever heard or seen a -minor- film production? suppose these are called B and C flicks?

TolkoRaz
31-05-2018, 09:39
I disagree! John le Carre would never have written such a counter-productive script!

This has damaged the SBU's reputation, if it had a good one, angered many honest hardworking journalists and fueled accusations of the Kyiv government propagating 'fake news'...................... all in all, a home goal!

Interesting to watch all of the 'Russia Bashers' immediately revert to type by posting and commenting in the media about Russian state sponsored terrorism being exported overseas................Russophobia went off the needle yesterday.

As the red faces returned to their normal color, chuckles could be heard from the Kremlin! :)

Uncle Wally
31-05-2018, 10:17
I disagree! John le Carre would never have written such a counter-productive script!

This has damaged the SBU's reputation, if it had a good one, angered many honest hardworking journalists and fueled accusations of the Kyiv government propagating 'fake news'...................... all in all, a home goal!

Interesting to watch all of the 'Russia Bashers' immediately revert to type by posting and commenting in the media about Russian state sponsored terrorism being exported overseas................Russophobia went off the needle yesterday.

As the red faces returned to their normal color, chuckles could be heard from the Kremlin! :)




"home goal" I see you're gearing up for the World Cup!

Tiancai
31-05-2018, 11:19
The point was to catch the real assassin (the Russians paid a guy $30000 to do it), now that he was successfully caught, he as a witness can shed some light on interaction with Russian special services. Not to mention, that the Russian Investigative Committee immediately initiated proceedings on a "Russian citizen killed abroad case" upon hearing the news, didn't even bother to confirm that he really died (or have the embassy staff visit the morgue), they were obviously pretty sure of it, figuring that their guy successfully completed his "mission". :cool:

Uncle Wally
31-05-2018, 12:27
The point was to catch the real assassin (the Russians paid a guy $30000 to do it), now that he was successfully caught, he as a witness can shed some light on interaction with Russian special services. Not to mention, that the Russian Investigative Committee immediately initiated proceedings on a "Russian citizen killed abroad case" upon hearing the news, didn't even bother to confirm that he really died (or have the embassy staff visit the morgue), they were obviously pretty sure of it, figuring that their guy successfully completed his "mission". :cool:





Wouldn't hold up in court. They are going to need a lot more proof than that. They caught a guy who alleges he was paid y Russians to kill someone. Coming from Ukrainians it doesn't mean much. And as far as the Russian government being "sure" of it so was everyone else. We must have all been in on it.

Hans.KK
31-05-2018, 12:34
Poor journalist, now he is a tool in somebody else hands, and he have no clue about what will happen next, but he got his 5 minutes of fame all over the world.

Uncle Wally
31-05-2018, 14:13
Poor journalist, now he is a tool in somebody else hands, and he have no clue about what will happen next, but he got his 5 minutes of fame all over the world.




I wouldn't give him long to live.

TolkoRaz
31-05-2018, 14:19
I wouldn't give him long to live.

Good point! If there had been a price on his head, it will now have doubled!

TolkoRaz
31-05-2018, 14:21
The point was to catch the real assassin (the Russians paid a guy $30000 to do it), now that he was successfully caught, he as a witness can shed some light on interaction with Russian special services. Not to mention, that the Russian Investigative Committee immediately initiated proceedings on a "Russian citizen killed abroad case" upon hearing the news, didn't even bother to confirm that he really died (or have the embassy staff visit the morgue), they were obviously pretty sure of it, figuring that their guy successfully completed his "mission". :cool:

Apparently the SBU were able to intercept communications 2 months ago and then disrupt the plot.................if they had actually done that, there would have been no need for all of this drama!

They already had the evidence!

No Oscars for this amateurish charade................! ;)

rumple_stilskin
31-05-2018, 15:08
Poor journalist, now he is a tool in somebody else hands, and he have no clue about what will happen next, but he got his 5 minutes of fame all over the world.

yes, useful idiot. So his family and kids thought he was dead.

I wonder who hatched this plot.

xp@
31-05-2018, 17:54
waiting for it to be a Hollywood -major- film production...
by the way, has anyone ever heard or seen a -minor- film production? suppose these are called B and C flicks?

The plot may be different, but a good title for it has already been used twice: The Night of the Living Dead.

Judge
31-05-2018, 18:00
And what happens next if he is killed for real, blame the Russian secret service, again?

TolkoRaz
31-05-2018, 18:07
Were the Skripals actually attacked in the UK? :confused:

Judge
31-05-2018, 18:12
Were the Skripals actually attacked in the UK? :confused:

They are doing their best to blame Russia for everything these days, thing is, nobody is dieing,if the Russians wanted to assassinate any of the above mentioned,they would be six feet under by now, not living to tell their fantasy tales.
The closer we get to Putin's world cup, the more chances of false flags happening.

FatAndy
31-05-2018, 21:16
And what happens next if he is killed for real, blame the Russian secret service, again?
No, personally Vovan.


Good point! If there had been a price on his head, it will now have doubled!
Tolik, I bet you mentioned - cut twice?

Benedikt
31-05-2018, 21:45
lets hope they did not have to kill a pig to get the blood...
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/babchenko-says-he-used-pigs-blood-make-up-artist-61653

Uncle Wally
31-05-2018, 23:04
lets hope they did not have to kill a pig to get the blood...
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/babchenko-says-he-used-pigs-blood-make-up-artist-61653

That ain't kosher.

Benedikt
01-06-2018, 06:14
That ain't kosher.

that was the same i was thinking. how could he use it. or maybe it was a kosher piggy?

FatAndy
01-06-2018, 10:41
Skripals were revived in London in 2 weeks.
Babchenko - in Kiev in one day.
Ukrainian healthcare is 14 times stronger, than British.
:verycool:

Uncle Wally
01-06-2018, 11:36
There are already big holes in this story. They say he died in the ambulance but show a photo of him laying face down in a pool of blood. They say they have video of the pay off so why fake his death?

Benedikt
01-06-2018, 11:54
There are already big holes in this story. They say he died in the ambulance but show a photo of him lying face down in a pool of blood. They say they have a video of the pay off so why fake his death?

for them to know. and for us to never find out...

Russian Lad
04-06-2018, 23:19
A lot of kvas excitement here, cool. I don't see how this operation was any different from thousands of similar baiting operations, except for the fact that the Ukr president knew about it and it was all done publicly.
If the same was done by the Russian secret service many of you would probably be jumping merrily, spilling your crimson kvas from excitement and admiring yet another smart move of VVP who, once again, has outmaneuvered the stupid West...


Poor journalist, now he is a tool in somebody else hands

Crocodile tears, how touching.


They say he died in the ambulance but show a photo of him laying face down in a pool of blood.

Someone laying in a pool of blood is not necessarily dead, he may be wounded.


They say they have video of the pay off so why fake his death?

For instance, to stir the nest of other potential assassins, to expose the connections that surely sprang to life during the action, via telephone/Internet communication and otherwise. There may be thousands of reasons.


I wouldn't give him long to live.
Good point! If there had been a price on his head, it will now have doubled!

So, he was supposed to wait till he got murdered? He went through both Chechen wars (including as a soldier, and some other wars as a journalist), so I reckon he knew what he was doing.
A part of it is surely political games of course, but I think the rabbit hole is much deeper... As usual.

TolkoRaz
05-06-2018, 09:26
Did the SBU stage the Skripal attack knowing that all fingers would immediately point towards the Kremlin?

Judge
05-06-2018, 12:39
Did the SBU stage the Skripal attack knowing that all fingers would immediately point towards the Kremlin?

The probability is high, higher than say another foriegn agency doing it, it was a very sloppy assassination attempt, was that what they wanted?
In just a few weeks we had the chemical attack in Syria, UK and the journalist's
pathetic cry for attention, all to pin the blame on Russian involvement.

What's clear is that many are now seeing the truth, separating the BS from fact, the many I mean, the independent news sites, people who comment on articles, even world leaders asking for more evidence.

Judge
05-06-2018, 12:58
A lot of kvas excitement here, cool. I don't see how this operation was any different from thousands of similar baiting operations, except for the fact that the Ukr president knew about it and it was all done publicly.
If the same was done by the Russian secret service many of you would probably be jumping merrily, spilling your crimson kvas from excitement and admiring yet another smart move of VVP who, once again, has outmaneuvered the stupid West...



Crocodile tears, how touching.



Someone laying in a pool of blood is not necessarily dead, he may be wounded.



For instance, to stir the nest of other potential assassins, to expose the connections that surely sprang to life during the action, via telephone/Internet communication and otherwise. There may be thousands of reasons.



So, he was supposed to wait till he got murdered? He went through both Chechen wars (including as a soldier, and some other wars as a journalist), so I reckon he knew what he was doing.
A part of it is surely political games of course, but I think the rabbit hole is much deeper... As usual.

What's the new line now, that this was all staged to flush out SBU agents who are Moscow friendly?
Because there was no assassin,no middleman and no evidence that Russia was involved.

TolkoRaz
05-06-2018, 14:20
What's the new line now, that this was all staged to flush out SBU agents who are Moscow friendly?
Because there was no assassin,no middleman and no evidence that Russia was involved.

According to the SBU and the other UKR authorities in Kyiv, the money was transferred / hand-over to the hired 'killer' quicker than any of my banks can manage to electronically transfer it! ;)

Hired hitmen would not normally want such a payment so soon after their task had been completed. I would have thought that normally they would wait for the dust to settle before having any contact with the facilitator or the money man / woman........

Russian Lad
05-06-2018, 14:21
Because there was no assassin,no middleman and no evidence that Russia was involved.

Of course not. All of this has just been a bad dream. You will wake up soon, have a big glass of slightly chilled kvas and it all will be as before + much more - Russia is in G8 and prospering, no sanctions, dollar costs 29 rubles, petrol is dirt cheap, the whole world admires Putin and his wise management and awesome maneuvers. Ukraine, after a Yalta conference, is a part of the great Russia again, just as Belarus, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Armenia and many -stans. America is ruined, it has split up into 5 different countries. Alaska is Russian again. Ruble is the only hard currency, the whole world prefers trading in Russian rubles. Russian space stations have been built on all planets of the solar system, Russian oil from Jupiter is in high demand. Russian Internet is predominant. The whole world is learning Russian and wants to join Russia. The Russian Orthodoxy has become the leading global religion, a huge Russian cathedral has been built on the former Times Square.The whole world is becoming one big Russia.

Russian Lad
05-06-2018, 15:08
Only today - one Ukr film-maker allegedly committed suicide, one activist in Odessa got knife wounds. The blood, the wounded and the corpses, just as your kvas, seem to be quite real there, most of the time.

Alan65
05-06-2018, 17:15
Only today - one Ukr film-maker allegedly committed suicide, one activist in Odessa got knife wounds. The blood, the wounded and the corpses, just as your kvas, seem to be quite real there, most of the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

The existence of the secret protocol was denied by the Soviet government until 1989, when it was finally acknowledged and denounced.[11] Some time later, the new Russian nationalists and revisionists including Russian amateur negationist Alexander Dyukov and Nataliya Narotchnitskaya, whose book carried an approving foreword by the Russian foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, described the pact as a necessary measure because of the British and French failure to enter into an anti-fascist pact.[11][12] Vladimir Putin while condemning the pact as 'immoral' has also defended the pact as a necessary evil.[13][14]

WW2 was the fault of the British and French aswell

Benedikt
05-06-2018, 18:38
WW2 was the fault of the British and French aswell[/QUOTE]

correct. in that railway carriage where Germany had to sign the surrender ALL the -Allies- were present when they dictated their shameful demands. THAT was one of the main factors to let Hitler come to power and the rest is indeed history.
One could, of course, argue, had the director of the Vienna College of Fine Arts the aquarell painter not rejected, he would have been most probably happily painting the Vienna Woods. and enjoy the Gemütlichkeit there... Who knows...

Alan65
05-06-2018, 20:00
WW2 was the fault of the British and French aswell

correct. in that railway carriage where Germany had to sign the surrender ALL the -Allies- were present when they dictated their shameful demands. THAT was one of the main factors to let Hitler come to power and the rest is indeed history.
One could, of course, argue, had the director of the Vienna College of Fine Arts the aquarell painter not rejected, he would have been most probably happily painting the Vienna Woods. and enjoy the Gemütlichkeit there... Who knows...[/QUOTE]

Ha ha so nothing to do with the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact when Russian thought they had picked the right side, oh if only Russia could admit Lend Lease and the Baltic convoys kept them alive

TolkoRaz
05-06-2018, 21:23
WW2 was the fault of the British and French aswell

correct. in that railway carriage where Germany had to sign the surrender ALL the -Allies- were present when they dictated their shameful demands. THAT was one of the main factors to let Hitler come to power and the rest is indeed history.
One could, of course, argue, had the director of the Vienna College of Fine Arts the aquarell painter not rejected, he would have been most probably happily painting the Vienna Woods. and enjoy the Gemütlichkeit there... Who knows...[/QUOTE]

Very good point! So actually, it was not Hitler's fault, but the fault of an Austrian art expert!

Judge
05-06-2018, 22:55
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

The existence of the secret protocol was denied by the Soviet government until 1989, when it was finally acknowledged and denounced.[11] Some time later, the new Russian nationalists and revisionists including Russian amateur negationist Alexander Dyukov and Nataliya Narotchnitskaya, whose book carried an approving foreword by the Russian foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, described the pact as a necessary measure because of the British and French failure to enter into an anti-fascist pact.[11][12] Vladimir Putin while condemning the pact as 'immoral' has also defended the pact as a necessary evil.[13][14]

WW2 was the fault of the British and French aswell
Yes, in part it was the fault of the Britain and France.
Stalin wanted to sign a pact with Britain and France before the pact with Germany,but was it was turned down, Stalin was ready to put forward a million men to confront the Nazi aggression,this meant that the Soviet army had to pass through Poland to face the Nazis ,the French and Brits couldn't get the Polish to agree ,the rest is the bloody history that we know of.

The Soviet pact with the Germans bought Stalin time, enough time to put together an army to take on the Nazi onslaught, like I said, the rest is all history, a bloody one at that.
Stalin was no idiot, he didn't trust Hitler at all, don't you think Stalin read Mein Kampf, and had a good idea of Hitler's thoughts regarding communism?

Judge
05-06-2018, 22:59
Only today - one Ukr film-maker allegedly committed suicide, one activist in Odessa got knife wounds. The blood, the wounded and the corpses, just as your kvas, seem to be quite real there, most of the time.

Was it true or staged, recent events out of Ukraine make us believe all is not what it seems.

Uncle Wally
05-06-2018, 23:05
correct. in that railway carriage where Germany had to sign the surrender ALL the -Allies- were present when they dictated their shameful demands. THAT was one of the main factors to let Hitler come to power and the rest is indeed history.
One could, of course, argue, had the director of the Vienna College of Fine Arts the aquarell painter not rejected, he would have been most probably happily painting the Vienna Woods. and enjoy the Gemütlichkeit there... Who knows...

Very good point! So actually, it was not Hitler's fault, but the fault of an Austrian art expert![/QUOTE]




Yeah, nothing I hate more than knowitall Canadians and translators from St. Pete than Austrian art experts! Well ok, maybe bankers and people who don't like cats. But Austrian art experts are way up on the list!

Uncle Wally
05-06-2018, 23:08
Yes, in part it was the fault of the Britain and France.
Stalin wanted to do a pact with Britain and France before the pact with Germany,but was it was turned down, Stalin was ready to put forward a million men to confront the Nazi aggression,this meant that the Soviet army had to pass through Poland to face the Nazis ,the French and Brits couldn't get the Polish to agree ,the rest is the bloody history that we know of.

The Soviet pact with the Germans bought Stalin time, enough time to put together an army to take on the Nazi onslaught, like I said, the rest is all history, a bloody one at that.



That's right, you do what is best for your country.

Russian Lad
05-06-2018, 23:19
recent events out of Ukraine make us believe all is not what it seems.

After four long years? Well, at least that's some progress... Not only in Ukraine though. Maybe there is hope, after all, but I would not bet my money on it. Too late, too much crimson kvas spilled and consumed.
P.S. Polish crash investigation commission: there were explosive on board the president's airplane that crashed in Putin's Russia in 2010 - https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806051065135517-poland-kaczynski-plane-crash-investigation/

Judge
05-06-2018, 23:21
Alan, this is from your own wiki link,


Starting in mid-March 1939, in attempts to contain Hitler's expansionism, the Soviet Union, Britain and France traded a flurry of suggestions and counterplans regarding a potential political and military agreement.[47][48] Although informal consultations commenced in April, the main negotiations began only in May.[48] At the same time, throughout early 1939, Germany had secretly hinted to Soviet diplomats that it could offer better terms for a political agreement than Britain and France.[49][50][51]

The Soviet Union, which feared Western powers and the possibility of "capitalist encirclements", had little faith either that war could be avoided, or faith in the Polish army, and wanted nothing less than an ironclad military alliance with France and Britain[52] that would provide a guaranteed support for a two-pronged attack on Germany;[53] thus, Stalin's adherence to the collective security line was purely conditional.[54] Britain and France believed that war could still be avoided, and that the Soviet Union, weakened by the Great Purge,[55] could not be a main military participant,[53] a point that many military sources[clarification needed] were at variance with, especially given the Soviet victories over the Japanese Kwantung Army on the Manchurian frontier.[56] France was more anxious to find an agreement with the USSR than was Britain; as a continental power, it was more willing to make concessions and more fearful of the dangers of an agreement between the USSR and Germany.[57] These contrasting attitudes partly explain why the USSR has often been charged with playing a double game in 1939: carrying on open negotiations for an alliance with Britain and France while secretly considering propositions from Germany.[57]

We can say if only they had listened to Stalin, but you gotta look at the bigger picture, they didn't listen, and what we got was a massive war between the Nazis and the commies, which destroyed the Nazis and then the west had to deal with the Soviets, then we come to what we have today.
This is about looking at the bigger picture, Churchill sure did.
Why didn't Churchill go for this "ironclad" alliance?


Reading all this, it's strange in a way, France back then wanting to deal with the Russians, but the British were reluctant, isn't that how it is today, the French leader was meeting with Putin in St Petes the other week, making deals, whilst Britain is doing its best to annoy Russia..
It's the great game all over again..

Judge
05-06-2018, 23:39
After four long years? Well, at least that's some progress... Not only in Ukraine though. Maybe there is hope, after all, but I would not bet my money on it. Too late, too much crimson kvas spilled and consumed.
P.S. Polish crash investigation commission: there were explosive on board the president's airplane that crashed in Putin's Russia in 2010 - https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806051065135517-poland-kaczynski-plane-crash-investigation/
Are the Polish going to declare war on Russia?

Don't get me wrong here ,this crash was very mysterious, if my brother being the leader died in such a way and I came to power, I for sure would leave no stone unturned.

Russian Lad
05-06-2018, 23:58
Are the Polish going to declare war on Russia?

Maybe more sanctions? Partial oil and/or gas delivery embargo, Swift disconnection, etc. (I would certainly prefer to keep Swift:)) Putin's Russia can destroy more foreign food in response...


Don't get me wrong here ,this crash was very mysterious, if my brother being the leader died in such a way and I came to power, I for sure would leave no stone unturned.

What is even more mysterious, Putin's Russia doesn't allow the Poles to get the remains of the plane, as I understand the debris are still in Putin's Russia.

TheInterocitor
06-06-2018, 00:27
Are the Polish going to declare war on Russia?
...

No, but the Narvikians are ready to go! :)

There she is, Generalissimo Kaljulaid, AKA the President of the Estonia Peoples Republic, ready to get into her air-conditioned, hybrid SUV, err... I mean her battle tank! :rofl: (These different vehicles are color-coded, for slow bureaucrats).

Kersti looks kinda cute in her helmet, don't she? :rofl: "Kersti!" "The white vehicle is a Toyota Land Cruiser, the green vehicle is a tank!"

32508

Seriously it was Progressive like this, in Hillary Clinton's State Department, playing "war games" on their desktop computers, that turned Ukraine into a basket case...

Russian Lad
06-06-2018, 01:25
“Of course, Russia can attack Estonia, but soon after that it may lose even Omsk and Tomsk, let alone St. Petersburg. They remember this,” Ilves warned.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806041065078434-estonia-ex-president-warning/

FatAndy
06-06-2018, 06:58
There she is, Generalissimo Kaljulaid, AKA the President
No, the Mayor of SPb suburbs ©. :)


https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806041065078434-estonia-ex-president-warning/
Attack Estonia? To feed it instead of EU? No, thanks, let ex-president Toomas to continue his wet dreams.


Polish crash investigation commission: there were explosive on board the president's airplane that crashed in Putin's Russia in 2010
Terrible airport security in Warsaw... :(


So, he was supposed to wait till he got murdered?
Well, keeping in mind the smelly piece he turned into the last years, it would be the best option...


I think the rabbit hole is much deeper... As usual.
I see Ukraine officials and SBU have trashed once more. As usual. :)


Only today - one Ukr film-maker allegedly committed suicide
What has happened? The conscience tortured him? Or it was the sudden, unexpected revenge of "cyborgs"?

Uncle Wally
06-06-2018, 06:59
After four long years? Well, at least that's some progress... Not only in Ukraine though. Maybe there is hope, after all, but I would not bet my money on it. Too late, too much crimson kvas spilled and consumed.
P.S. Polish crash investigation commission: there were explosive on board the president's airplane that crashed in Putin's Russia in 2010 - https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806051065135517-poland-kaczynski-plane-crash-investigation/



Explosives on the presidents plane uh? Since the plane left from Poland wouldn't it be Poland's responsibility to make sure the plane was safe? It was carrying their president after all.

FatAndy
06-06-2018, 07:03
Since the plane left from Poland wouldn't it be Poland's responsibility to make sure the plane was safe?
No. As Putin is EvilGod and therefore is able to down the plane by the power of thought. He did it... highly likely... according to evidence in social networks.

Judge
06-06-2018, 07:49
Maybe more sanctions? Partial oil and/or gas delivery embargo, Swift disconnection, etc. (I would certainly prefer to keep Swift:)) Putin's Russia can destroy more foreign food in response...



What is even more mysterious, Putin's Russia doesn't allow the Poles to get the remains of the plane, as I understand the debris are still in Putin's Russia.

Great idea, the EU should stop buying Russian gas& oil,


The European Union imports 69% of its natural gas, according to the European Commission. The latest available data shows 37% of the imported gas comes from Russia, about 33% from Norway, and 11% from Algeria.

And while the European Union vowed to cut its dependency on Russian gas after the crisis in Ukraine, Russian exports to Europe have risen to record levels in the last two years.

How will the EU replace Russian gas?

TheInterocitor
06-06-2018, 12:40
Great idea, the EU should stop buying Russian gas& oil,

How will the EU replace Russian gas?

They can go back to bicycles. This will save the consumers money, and also help the environment by cutting down on pollution. And vast improvement in safety, too! :) But watch out for BWI (Bicycling While Intoxicated) riders.

Russian Lad
06-06-2018, 12:55
Great idea, the EU should stop buying Russian gas& oil,

You missed the words "partial" and "and/or"?


How will the EU replace Russian gas?

No need to replace it fully. American LNG, own solar and wind resources, own gas projects development, hydro stations, maybe even a reliable nuclear station. Where there is a will there is a way.

Judge
06-06-2018, 13:46
You missed the words "partial" and "and/or"?



No need to replace it fully. American LNG, own solar and wind resources, own gas projects development, hydro stations, maybe even a reliable nuclear station. Where there is a will there is a way.

Can't pick and choose, either all or nothing.

Judge
06-06-2018, 14:19
They can go back to bicycles. This will save the consumers money, and also help the environment by cutting down on pollution. And vast improvement in safety, too! :) But watch out for BWI (Bicycling While Intoxicated) riders.
Pedal power ,lolol

Alan65
06-06-2018, 15:19
Pedal power ,lolol

You may joke about it but in London TfL passenger numbers on the tube are coming down, no really knows why but it is probably got something to do with the cycle lanes now being built in London, in Copenhagen I think it was over 50% of daily journeys were done on bikes.

Hans.KK
06-06-2018, 17:23
in Copenhagen I think it was over 50% of daily journeys were done on bikes.It was 45% and it was transport to/from work, now it is around 41%, look at Holland if you want better numbers.

Judge
06-06-2018, 21:02
You may joke about it but in London TfL passenger numbers on the tube are coming down, no really knows why but it is probably got something to do with the cycle lanes now being built in London, in Copenhagen I think it was over 50% of daily journeys were done on bikes.

They probably had enough of the constant delays and high prices, I don't blame them.

TolkoRaz
06-06-2018, 21:11
You may joke about it but in London TfL passenger numbers on the tube are coming down, no really knows why but it is probably got something to do with the cycle lanes now being built in London, in Copenhagen I think it was over 50% of daily journeys were done on bikes.

Cost? Threat of attack by extremists?

No wi-fi? ;)

TolkoRaz
06-06-2018, 21:12
It was 45% and it was transport to/from work, now it is around 41%, look at Holland if you want better numbers.

Holland is flat! ;)

Judge
06-06-2018, 21:16
Cost? Threat of attack by extremists?

No wi-fi? ;)

If to get a single ticket for all zones, it's 6 quid :scared:
Compare that to 55ru for Moscow metro.

Russian Lad
06-06-2018, 23:11
Can't pick and choose, either all or nothing.

Why is that? There has been a lot of picking and choosing regarding the sanctions, on both sides.

Alan65
07-06-2018, 00:59
If to get a single ticket for all zones, it's 6 quid :scared:
Compare that to 55ru for Moscow metro.

I did say TfL and not simply the Underground, does Moscow Metro also fund, buses, river services, cycle lanes, light rail (DLR), metro rail (London Overground) and services that go as far as Shenfield in Essex and reading in Berkshire...possibly not comparing apples with apples here.

Judge
07-06-2018, 06:35
I did say TfL and not simply the Underground, does Moscow Metro also fund, buses, river services, cycle lanes, light rail (DLR), metro rail (London Overground) and services that go as far as Shenfield in Essex and reading in Berkshire...possibly not comparing apples with apples here.

It's all funded by the government, not privately run, that's why, no strikes and prices kept low.
For the price of two tickets on underground, you can catch a bus to st Petes from Moscow, it's definitely different apples we are talking about here.

Judge
07-06-2018, 06:37
Why is that? There has been a lot of picking and choosing regarding the sanctions, on both sides.

How will it work, the EU would decide which of their own countries are cut off?

Russian Lad
07-06-2018, 06:43
How will it work, the EU would decide which of their own countries are cut off?

Some hubs are already there for the American LNG in Europe, as I understand. Maybe it is more expensive, but the technologies are developing. And like I have mentioned, there are other options besides gas - solar and wind energy, hydro stations, maybe even a nuclear station.
Europe needs to understand that apeasement policies are always counter-productive. Well, I think they understand this anyway, so I would not bet my money on increased gas supplies from Putin's Russia to Europe.

Judge
07-06-2018, 06:57
Some hubs are already there for the American LNG in Europe, as I understand. Maybe it is more expensive, but the technologies are developing. And like I have mentioned, there are other options besides gas - solar and wind energy, hydro stations, maybe even a nuclear station.

Great, let them pay three times more for LNG, this will really make their economies competitive, try and sell that to the Germans.
Russian LNG is even even cheaper than American LNG.

Russian Lad
07-06-2018, 07:03
let them pay three times more for LNG

Why are you lying, Judge? Cannot live through a morning without yet another brazen putinistic lie?:) The price difference is not that huge, according to RT, one of your favorite sources - I would call this price difference rather small actually (and like I said, the technologies are developing, in 3-5 years the Americans may make it even cheaper, so the infrastructure better be there):

The estimated Gazprom price at the Germany border in the first quarter of 2018 increased to $7.15 per MMBtu. The US LNG gas landed and regasified in Belgium (Germany doesn’t have any LNG receiving terminals) cost around $7.9 per MMBtu, $8.1 per MMBtu in the first quarter of 2018.

Also, there is gas from Azerbaijan, maybe even from Qatar through Syria (Putin would need to stop playing there if his cash supplies are limited).

Judge
07-06-2018, 07:10
Why are you lying, Judge? Cannot live through a morning without yet another brazen putinistic lie?:) The price difference is not that huge, according to RT, one of your favorite sources (and like I said, the technologies are developing, in 3-5 years the Americans may make it even cheaper, so the infrastructure better be there):


Also, there is gas from Azerbaijan, maybe even from Qatar through Syria (Putin would need to stop playing there if his cash supplies are limited).

According to this guy it's huge,

https://www.rt.com/business/428809-austria-american-gas-exports-senseless/

Russia is busy moving in on other markets,they just sent their first LNG shipment to India, which before was 100% reliant on Qatar gas, and that dream of Qatar gas through Syria is long over.
Good to see the Austrians seeing sense, unlike other foolish leaders.

The EU are like junkies, can't get enough of the cheap Russian gas, the
tourniquet is getting tighter and tighter.

Russia Tightens Grip on Europe's Gas With Gazprom Deal
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/russia-tightens-grip-on-europe-s-gas-supply-with-gazprom-deal



And of course,you give the sweetest deals to your best clients


Germany pays less for Russian gas:

https://www.energy-reporters.com/industry/germany-pays-less-for-russian-gas-data/

It's not the Greek or Italian economies which are powering the EU economy, actually, it's thanks to Russia the EU is seeing growth, and you want to cut off from Russian gas, don't you like the EU?

Hans.KK
07-06-2018, 07:27
I did say TfL and not simply the Underground, does Moscow Metro also fund, buses, river services, cycle lanes, light rail (DLR), metro rail (London Overground) and services that go as far as Shenfield in Essex and reading in Berkshire...possibly not comparing apples with apples here.

Let's then compare the core Underground/Metro?
------------------ London ----------- Moscow -------- SPB
Number of lines -- 11 --------------- 13 ------------ 5
Nr. of stations -- 270 -------------- 245 ----------- 69
Daily ridership -- 5 million ---------6,992 million - 2,09 million
Annual ridership - 1,379 billion ---- 2,442 billion - 763,1 million
Began operation -- 10 January 1863 -- 15 May 1935 --- 1955
System length ---- 402 km ----------- 418,9 km ------ 118,6 km
Average speed ---- 33 km/h ---------- 39,54 km/h ---- 40 km/h

Alan65
07-06-2018, 09:23
Let's then compare the core Underground/Metro?
------------------ London ----------- Moscow -------- SPB
Number of lines -- 11 --------------- 13 ------------ 5
Nr. of stations -- 270 -------------- 245 ----------- 69
Daily ridership -- 5 million ---------6,992 million - 2,09 million
Annual ridership - 1,379 billion ---- 2,442 billion - 763,1 million
Began operation -- 10 January 1863 -- 15 May 1935 --- 1955
System length ---- 402 km ----------- 418,9 km ------ 118,6 km
Average speed ---- 33 km/h ---------- 39,54 km/h ---- 40 km/h


I think you may have missed out the amount of buses, light metro (DLR), suburban metro (overground and regional services), trams, airport express, cycle ways that Moscow and SPD operate...TfL is not just the tube

Hans.KK
07-06-2018, 09:59
I think you may have missed out the amount of buses, light metro (DLR), suburban metro (overground and regional services), trams, airport express, cycle ways that Moscow and SPD operate...TfL is not just the tubeNo, because i wrote: "the core Underground/Metro", that is without buses, light metro, suburban metro, trams, airport express and cycle ways.

My numbers maybe more interesting for some people if we put in the population numbers from the tree largest cites in Europe:
Moscow 8,2 million
London 7,0 million
St Petersburg 4,6 million

Judge
07-06-2018, 10:26
No, because i wrote: "the core Underground/Metro", that is without buses, light metro, suburban metro, trams, airport express and cycle ways.

My numbers maybe more interesting for some people if we put in the population numbers from the tree largest cites in Europe:
Moscow 8,2 million
London 7,0 million
St Petersburg 4,6 million

I'd say Moscow's population is close to 14 million, easily a million enter daily just to work.

Judge
07-06-2018, 10:37
I think you may have missed out the amount of buses, light metro (DLR), suburban metro (overground and regional services), trams, airport express, cycle ways that Moscow and SPD operate...TfL is not just the tube

Fair enough, but still, 6 quid for a single ride is steep.
Read other week about train fare London to Manchester,if you buy last minute standard ticket can cost £338 , that's taking the piss.
Could fly to New York and back..

The transport secretary has defended train companies that charge more than £300 for peak-time fares, as he launched the biggest overhaul of Britain’s railway
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/may/10/chris-grayling-defends-expensive-last-minute-rail-fares?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messaging

It's ok for locals, they should know, but tourists?

Uncle Wally
07-06-2018, 10:57
I'd say Moscow's population is close to 14 million, easily a million enter daily just to work.




And growing! Like crazy!

Hans.KK
07-06-2018, 13:15
I'd say Moscow's population is close to 14 millionSorry I got the figures from a wiki page about the largest cities in Europe and as we know wiki is sometimes a bit wrong, or in some cases totally off, just take the wiki's about Moscow, depending on language variant I get 15512000, 12500123 or 11503501 as a number for population.
For London I get:
8787892, 8787892 or 8538689.

For SPB:
5323300, 5351935 or 5281579.

So we can get any number we want/need.

Alan65
07-06-2018, 13:33
Well the £6 for a single is distorting things a bit, £6.60 for a Zone 1 & 2 Oyster card, you don't even need an Oyster card everything is contact less, why a tourist would like to go to Croydon etc is beyond me.

Russian Lad
07-06-2018, 18:33
And growing! Like crazy!

True, unlike the rest of the country, all the money goes to Moscow. You travel like 200 km from Moscow, say, to the Tula region, and it looks like WW-II never ended there. It looks like death.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgMvCgMAXuc

TheInterocitor
07-06-2018, 21:13
£338 is about what I paid for my car... :) It's not new and people point at it and laugh, but £338 for one train ride?

TheInterocitor
07-06-2018, 21:22
£6 is about what I paid for my bicycle...

Hey, why not start an Uber service with bicycles? Call it "Buber". You go to the Buber kiosk, leave a £20 deposit, ride your rented bike to where you are going, drop it off at another, nearby, Buber kiosk, get your £20 back less £2 for the ride.