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AstarD
23-08-2016, 11:14
30386

FatAndy
23-08-2016, 12:04
Poor Western children... :mad:

rusmeister
23-08-2016, 15:37
Yes, it is easy to get pictures of smiling faces and appeals to sentiment, to think that because you can find that people sometimes can be smiling and caring, that we need not think any further as to what the harm could be.

I find that the defenders of "gay marriage" never, ever engage reasonable thought that they disagree with. They ignore relevant objections and stick to their talking points, just like political candidates.

Archbishop Cordileone states case against gay marriage
USATODAY 11:56 p.m. EDT March 21, 2013
'To legalize marriage between two people of the same sex would enshrine in the law the principle that mothers and fathers are interchangeable or irrelevant.'

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/21/archbishop-cordileone-gay-marriage-catholic-church/2001085/

Your picture (note, I said "your picture", and not "you") literally says that child doesn't need a father. I say, fiddlesticks and phoney baloney. It's foolishness squared to the nth power, and that article details why.

I await surprise: intelligent consideration of the Archbishop's observations. He's Catholic, but that hardly matters, since he's not assuming the readers share his faith.

I'll note, in all fairness to you, that this is the only intelligent explication of the side that opposes these things that I have ever seen in a major media publication in a sea of media eagerly advocating what you advocate, completely opposed to two thousand years of Christian tradition. They assiduously strive to prevent you from hearing a fair case for the opposition, and let down their guard once, by mistake, evidently.

JPS
23-08-2016, 15:55
Yes, it is easy to get pictures of smiling faces and appeals to sentiment, to think that because you can find that people sometimes can be smiling and caring, that we need not think any further as to what the harm could be.

I find that the defenders of "gay marriage" never, ever engage reasonable thought that they disagree with. They ignore relevant objections and stick to their talking points, just like political candidates.

Archbishop Cordileone states case against gay marriage
USATODAY 11:56 p.m. EDT March 21, 2013
'To legalize marriage between two people of the same sex would enshrine in the law the principle that mothers and fathers are interchangeable or irrelevant.'

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/21/archbishop-cordileone-gay-marriage-catholic-church/2001085/

Irrelevant. The humorous photo is about gay parenting, NOT gay marriage. If you don't find it funny then don't comment. Instead what you have done is get on your high horse and started preaching *your* opinions. Not everyone is religious and not everyone has sense-of-humour failures. Respect that or be quiet.

You'd better hope (because praying to a non-existent deity is a waste of energy) that your children (if you have any) don't turn out to be gay otherwise your worldly morale view is going to come crumbling down around your ears.

Englishman In Moscow
23-08-2016, 15:59
Poor little chap has to deal with two lots of PMT every month. And when older, two lots of having to answer "does my bum look big in this"

TolkoRaz
23-08-2016, 16:28
Poor little chap has to deal with two lots of PMT every month. And when older, two lots of having to answer "does my bum look big in this"

And, has to somehow afford 2 bouquets on Mothers' Day!

AstarD
23-08-2016, 17:13
Yes, it is easy to get pictures of smiling faces and appeals to sentiment, to think that because you can find that people sometimes can be smiling and caring, that we need not think any further as to what the harm could be.

I find that the defenders of "gay marriage" never, ever engage reasonable thought that they disagree with. They ignore relevant objections and stick to their talking points, just like political candidates.

Archbishop Cordileone states case against gay marriage
USATODAY 11:56 p.m. EDT March 21, 2013
'To legalize marriage between two people of the same sex would enshrine in the law the principle that mothers and fathers are interchangeable or irrelevant.'

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/21/archbishop-cordileone-gay-marriage-catholic-church/2001085/

Your picture (note, I said "your picture", and not "you") literally says that child doesn't need a father. I say, fiddlesticks and phoney baloney. It's foolishness squared to the nth power, and that article details why.

I await surprise: intelligent consideration of the Archbishop's observations. He's Catholic, but that hardly matters, since he's not assuming the readers share his faith.

I'll note, in all fairness to you, that this is the only intelligent explication of the side that opposes these things that I have ever seen in a major media publication in a sea of media eagerly advocating what you advocate, completely opposed to two thousand years of Christian tradition. They assiduously strive to prevent you from hearing a fair case for the opposition, and let down their guard once, by mistake, evidently.Who are you preaching at?

rusmeister
24-08-2016, 07:37
Irrelevant. The humorous photo is about gay parenting, NOT gay marriage. If you don't find it funny then don't comment. Instead what you have done is get on your high horse and started preaching *your* opinions. Not everyone is religious and not everyone has sense-of-humour failures. Respect that or be quiet.

You'd better hope (because praying to a non-existent deity is a waste of energy) that your children (if you have any) don't turn out to be gay otherwise your worldly morale view is going to come crumbling down around your ears.

All of this says is that you agree with the sentiment (and that's all it is, it isn't thinking) that Astar provocatively expressed. If your same words were used against you in support of a sentiment you DON'T agree with, you'd holler to high heaven. If someone posted a joke insulting Jews as inferior people, you'd object, and you'd be right, but you would deserve to have your words fed back to you so you could see how unreasonable they are.

I respect the forum rules, and am not insulting or trolling; the mods know I sincerely believe what I say, and furthermore, it is not merely "my" opinion, but that of nearly all of humanity across space and time. It is YOU who are the rebels against that, not me. Your wish that people who disagree with you be quiet has been noted and logged. But that's kind of the whole point, anyway. You didn't read even the quote I specifically included in my post about parenting, or else you would have instantly seen its relevancy.

And it proves what I said. You guys WILL NOT seriously consider what the AB says, or what I say. You will distract, ignore, but you won't consider whether the statement I quoted or reasons expressed in the article are true or false, for the simple reason that they are true, and you have no good response.

rusmeister
24-08-2016, 09:37
Who are you preaching at?

No, the question is, who are YOU preaching at? For your first post is nothing if not preaching.

AstarD
24-08-2016, 11:01
I posted a funny picture. It's not advocating anything except wry laughter at growing up and how our fathers used to joke and how our fathers would say things like go ask your mother, and then thinking that a kid with two male parents would suffer twice the typical dad jokes, and a kid with two female parents would suffer an infinity loop of go "ask your mother". It's funny. It's not saying I think it's good or bad. It's just funny.

But Rusmeister has to make social commentary on EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE WORLD. Why can't you just stop a minute and smell the roses and laugh sometimes?

Uncle Wally
24-08-2016, 11:13
But Rusmeister has to make social commentary on EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE WORLD. Why can't you just stop a minute and smell the roses and laugh sometimes?



Isn't it "social commentary" the meme you posted? Social commentary can be funny but it's still social commentary, that's what stand up comedian's do isn't it? So rus ain't funny, nothing to see here, y'all move along.


Oh and I don't know about your dad but mine was hilariously funny. At family dinners he had everyone crying they laughed so hard. Never said go ask your mother either.

TolkoRaz
24-08-2016, 14:23
The photo was probably designed to be humorous but also to generate discussion and provoke thought....

I see nothing offensive about the factual message or picture......

rusmeister
24-08-2016, 17:19
The photo was probably designed to be humorous but also to generate discussion and provoke thought....

I see nothing offensive about the factual message or picture......

Well, it provoked thought, all right - on one side. But the question remains: should a child have a father, or are fathers unnecessary? Most of humanity has shouted "Yes, children need a father!" for all of history. A small number of well-meaning, but thoughtless people in our time who imagine they are being tolerant say "No!", and then can offer no good reason as to why that's the case.

Yes, it is TOTALLY social commentary, Astar, and it is deceptive on your part to suggest that it is not. My sense of humor is in fine working order. But I happen to know that for something to be humorous, it should be ridiculous. So... are you laughing at the idea that a second women can pretend to be a fine substitute for a father? I just don't get that impression. In which case it's social commentary, and not really intended as humor. The only laughter I see in intention is to laugh at people who think it is wrong.

AstarD
24-08-2016, 17:33
You don't ask if a child should have a mother. Why? I think you overthink everything.

nicklcool
24-08-2016, 17:35
You'd better hope (because praying to a non-existent deity is a waste of energy) that your children (if you have any) don't turn out to be gay otherwise your worldly morale view is going to come crumbling down around your ears.

They don't "turn out," it's a choice; one that becomes incresingly likely if your children are indoctrinated to thinking this lifestyle choice is OK. Just like love is not statistically weaker now and therefore there are more divorces. No, society has successfully indoctrinated us to think divorce is normal and OK and....shocker! We now get more of that undesirable behavior.

Uncle Wally
24-08-2016, 18:19
Well, it provoked thought, all right - on one side. But the question remains: should a child have a father, or are fathers unnecessary? Most of humanity has shouted "Yes, children need a father!" for all of history. A small number of well-meaning, but thoughtless people in our time who imagine they are being tolerant say "No!", and then can offer no good reason as to why that's the case.

Yes, it is TOTALLY social commentary, Astar, and it is deceptive on your part to suggest that it is not. My sense of humor is in fine working order. But I happen to know that for something to be humorous, it should be ridiculous. So... are you laughing at the idea that a second women can pretend to be a fine substitute for a father? I just don't get that impression. In which case it's social commentary, and not really intended as humor. The only laughter I see in intention is to laugh at people who think it is wrong.


You need to watch more Marx Brother movies or listen to George Carlin, he seems to be able to slam god and still be funny and let me tell you, he was very serious.

Carl
24-08-2016, 18:20
Well, it provoked thought, all right - on one side. But the question remains: should a child have a father, or are fathers unnecessary? Most of humanity has shouted "Yes, children need a father!" for all of history. A small number of well-meaning, but thoughtless people in our time who imagine they are being tolerant say "No!", and then can offer no good reason as to why that's the case.

Yes, it is TOTALLY social commentary, Astar, and it is deceptive on your part to suggest that it is not. My sense of humor is in fine working order. But I happen to know that for something to be humorous, it should be ridiculous. So... are you laughing at the idea that a second women can pretend to be a fine substitute for a father? I just don't get that impression. In which case it's social commentary, and not really intended as humor. The only laughter I see in intention is to laugh at people who think it is wrong.

Says the man that believes the pure fables of the bible.. Do you still believe in santa clause, the easter bunny & the tooth fairy as well? Not that there's anything wrong with that..we all need our fantasies. Just a bit tiring of all the constant propagating. Let me know if you need help locating the ignor button..

Uncle Wally
24-08-2016, 18:32
You don't ask if a child should have a mother. Why? I think you overthink everything.



I think that is a wee bit obvious. Rus is very much for family. I don't have to explain the meaning of family do I? You have never been in a custody battle have you? Who do you think wins 99% of the time? Hint, it's not the one who is telling bad jokes.

JPS
24-08-2016, 18:38
All of this says is that you agree with the sentiment (and that's all it is, it isn't thinking) that Astar provocatively expressed. If your same words were used against you in support of a sentiment you DON'T agree with, you'd holler to high heaven. If someone posted a joke insulting Jews as inferior people, you'd object, and you'd be right, but you would deserve to have your words fed back to you so you could see how unreasonable they are.

I respect the forum rules, and am not insulting or trolling; the mods know I sincerely believe what I say, and furthermore, it is not merely "my" opinion, but that of nearly all of humanity across space and time. It is YOU who are the rebels against that, not me. Your wish that people who disagree with you be quiet has been noted and logged. But that's kind of the whole point, anyway. You didn't read even the quote I specifically included in my post about parenting, or else you would have instantly seen its relevancy.

And it proves what I said. You guys WILL NOT seriously consider what the AB says, or what I say. You will distract, ignore, but you won't consider whether the statement I quoted or reasons expressed in the article are true or false, for the simple reason that they are true, and you have no good response.

Do you have children Rus? If so what would you feel / say / do if one of them came out as gay, married their partner and then adopted a child and called themselves a family?

Uncle Wally
24-08-2016, 18:57
Says the man that believes the pure fables of the bible.. Do you still believe in santa clause, the easter bunny & the tooth fairy as well? Not that there's anything wrong with that..we all need our fantasies. Just a bit tiring of all the constant propagating. Let me know if you need help locating the ignor button..


Wow Carl! Did we get our penis caught in our ripper today? Myself I think it's a daily habit with you. Please be more careful.


Are you still dreaming of becoming rich and successful by working for someone else? Who is your god? The almighty dollar? Well keep praying and maybe someday someone will give you what you seek. You seem to not be brave enough to go out on your own and just take it.


Note to self, start to worry because you see the righteous and good in Rus post. Ok we already understood that religion is just another form of discipline and nothing more but what is discipline if we do believe in anything?


Note to self,

Uncle Wally
24-08-2016, 20:35
They don't "turn out," it's a choice; one that becomes incresingly likely if your children are indoctrinated to thinking this lifestyle choice is OK. Just like love is not statistically weaker now and therefore there are more divorces. No, society has successfully indoctrinated us to think divorce is normal and OK and....shocker! We now get more of that undesirable behavior.


Someone said, " let no good crisis go to waste".

I don't know about you but I grew up with a gay older brother and if it was the beatings he got for being "different" did not change his mind about being a fairy I don't know what other social incentive he would have had to suffer the beatings that he got. I don't know where and when you grew up but I grew up near Boston in the 60's 70's and if you saw a black person you threw rocks or bottles at them. If you saw a gay person you beat them. Whoop hoo America! Now if you could still be a fag if you went through what my brother went through it must be a very determined choice. One gay lover and the rest of society kicking the living shit out of you.


No your government has used people with a birth defect to break up the family which is the core of human existence. The ultimate government! And where government should start if you ask me.

I have had too many sexual partners in my life and I now know that sexuality is by degrees. Have you ever heard of a "Tom boy"? I just love tom boys, they are so like me. I also love women and get sick at the sight of two "boys" kissing. Which makes me understand Rus. Why? Because life is what you make of it. Be good or bad, it's all how you perceive it and that's why we have ads. Stop watching TV and go out and see for yourself, don't let anyone tell you what you see or what you should have drought's, don't "them" tell you what life is about. It's to make your own way and to live that what counts. Because one plus one can make two but it can also make one. It just depends on how you think.

TolkoRaz
24-08-2016, 21:30
I have had too many sexual partners in my life and I now know that sexuality is by degrees. .

Not planning on having any more? ;)

Uncle Wally
24-08-2016, 23:17
Not planning on having any more? ;)


No, unless it's Natlee. I could just die for but then that's the end my friend. Save the best for last, god she is so sexy!

JPS
25-08-2016, 07:37
No, unless it's Natlee. I could just die for but then that's the end my friend. Save the best for last, god she is so sexy!

Creep alert...

Uncle Wally
25-08-2016, 07:50
Creep alert...


Really?

rusmeister
25-08-2016, 10:08
You need to watch more Marx Brother movies or listen to George Carlin, he seems to be able to slam god and still be funny and let me tell you, he was very serious.

Quite right. I would respond to Carlin differently, and really find a lot of what he says funny.


You don't ask if a child should have a mother. Why? I think you overthink everything.

Passing over the suggestion you make here that we not think about this, but just accept your own assumptions, I'll say that the same principle applies. A child needs, and should have, a mother and a father; one of each. Other help is always welcome, but it is recognized as other help, as not included in the basic needs. So adding a second woman, or a second man, and calling them a second mother, or second father, doesn't resolve the child's basic need. It comes back to a denial of that need, an assertion that (in the picture above) a father is irrelevant and unnecessary, or the converse in the case of two men trying to pretend to be a family, the assertion that a mother is not necessary.

To assert this is to become cut off from the understandings, not only of Christendom, but of humanity at large.


Says the man that believes the pure fables of the bible.. Do you still believe in santa clause, the easter bunny & the tooth fairy as well? Not that there's anything wrong with that..we all need our fantasies. Just a bit tiring of all the constant propagating. Let me know if you need help locating the ignor button..

I don't believe in ignoring people who are honest, sincere and polite, even if I disagree with them. :)
I simply think I can make a better case than you are making to people who are undecided as to who is right. Yes, it may be a waste of time to try to convince you of anything (but I'm willing to chance that you are not so unreasonable), but there may be a few that are not so sure, and then the most convincing person is the one who does not ignore his opponents, or what they say, but politely engages their words and shows that his case really is better, more intelligent and thought-out, and more likely to be true.

You seem to think that "fable", like "legend", and "fairy tale", means simply "false", "lie", "deceit".
The thing you don't see, Carl, that most people used to be able to see, is that fables have a practical purpose. Fables are not told to deceive us about truth, but to tell us something about the nature of truth that we might have trouble taking in when told directly. Aesop is rightly popular for a reason. So even if a story IS a fable, it has value. We don't then believe that foxes actually talk, or that animals conduct competitive races for sport, but we do get the message that it is not true to call goods we cannot achieve "sour grapes", that pride can tell us we need make no effort to achieve something, and so, like the hare in "The Tortoise and the Hare", bring about our downfall. Similarly, fairy tales and legends have practical purposes that you seem unaware of and/or haven't thought about.

I do believe in Santa Claus in a sense, because I believe in St Nicholas, and think that a fantasy figure can represent actual practical good or evil, in this case, great good. And however distorted the image becomes, the figure of a generous man who gives and does not take, seeks to do so secretly and seeks no thanks, remains and inspires. I, at any rate, can see that in Santa Claus, whether you can or not.


I think that is a wee bit obvious. Rus is very much for family. I don't have to explain the meaning of family do I? You have never been in a custody battle have you? Who do you think wins 99% of the time? Hint, it's not the one who is telling bad jokes.
Unfortunately, you do have to explain it, when people lose the sense that once was common, that needed no explanation. But explanation is useless if people don't want genuine understanding or truth.


Do you have children Rus? If so what would you feel / say / do if one of them came out as gay, married their partner and then adopted a child and called themselves a family?

I'd tell them what I'm telling you, JP. The truth is the truth, regardless of who you tell it to. It doesn't cease to be true just because you turn around and say it to somebody else. If slavery and abortion are evil, they are evil no matter who you say it to. If sexual relations outside of marriage are an abuse (bad use) of the sexual function, then they are an abuse regardless of the audience. The question, then, is not who you say a thing to, but whether a thing you say is true, on what basis, and whether it can withstand reasoned challenge.

TolkoRaz
25-08-2016, 14:31
No, unless it's Natlee. I could just die for but then that's the end my friend. Save the best for last, god she is so sexy!

Have you discussed this with her?

natlee
25-08-2016, 15:11
Years ago I was engaged to a man who, when things started falling apart, told me he would never sleep with another woman, whether or not I stayed with him. I remember thinking wow, what effin BS, and while it probably was, I can see now how he'd have meant it at the time. I upset my man recently, so much so I thought I was going to lose him, and while I don't recall much of the conversation as I was in a right state, and don't believe I said it out loud, I do remember thinking to myself I will never sleep with another man, not even if I lose you..

(Wtf is wrong with us humans, eh, to always think about sex, even at the most inappropriate of times? :) )

Anyhoo, my man has totally broken me for all other men out there - whether or not it is a good thing I do not know, but a fact it is. :)

nicklcool
25-08-2016, 15:14
Do you have children Rus? If so what would you feel / say / do if one of them came out as gay, married their partner and then adopted a child and called themselves a family?

Hey JPS, not gonna work, it's like asking death pemaly opponents, oh yea well what if YOUR family member was murdered!? Situational ethics. But anyway I believe the official religious response is love the sinner hate the sin.

Uncle Wally
25-08-2016, 16:14
Years ago I was engaged to a man who, when things started falling apart, told me he would never sleep with another woman, whether or not I stayed with him. I remember thinking wow, what effin BS, and while it probably was, I can see now how he'd have meant it at the time. I upset my man recently, so much so I thought I was going to lose him, and while I don't recall much of the conversation as I was in a right state, and don't believe I said it out loud, I do remember thinking to myself I will never sleep with another man, not even if I lose you..

(Wtf is wrong with us humans, eh, to always think about sex, even at the most inappropriate of times? :) )

Anyhoo, my man has totally broken me for all other men out there - whether or not it is a good thing I do not know, but a fact it is. :)



Good bye cruel world!



No seriously that's very sweet of you. I get all gooses bumps when I see someone so in love.


Sometimes love don't feel like it should,

Oh I'll just let John tell ya how it is,

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4dOsbsuhYGQ

rusmeister
25-08-2016, 16:15
Hey JPS, not gonna work, it's like asking death pemaly opponents, oh yea well what if YOUR family member was murdered!? Situational ethics. But anyway I believe the official religious response is love the sinner hate the sin.

Some people deny the idea of sin. They think it a "religious" idea rather than an observable phenomenon. That error aside, another way of putting it is that we see a difference between people, and their ideas and actions, which they have the power to change. The person is of infinite value. Wrong desires are not a legitimate and inalienable part of a person's identity, and certain desires does NOT constitute a legitimate class of human being. Therefore, we can care about the person, and be compassionate towards them, and think them deserving of the same treatment as anyone else. But we don't have to acknowledge their sexual desires as legitimate, just because they have them, and the fact that they have them doesn't make them a separate class of person as race or sex really do.

That's the long way of saying "Love the sinner..." to people who who would dismiss your words because you used the dirty word "sin".

Oh, and notice that not a single person has said a word about the link in my first post. No one has any good rebuttal to the archbishop, because while some are determined to deceive themselves, all are honest enough to not try to openly contradict obvious truths in public when confronted with them. The truth is the best thing you can have on your side; it's smarter to change your opinions than to try to fight the truth.

shurale
25-08-2016, 20:02
Thank you to Astar for posting a picture of two beautiful young women and a cute child.
I like the "go ask your mom" joke, it is funny.
Nevertheless, what if the picture had two bald middle-aged men? if the child was not so cute?
Can Rus be right (in this case) even though we don't like his hollier-than-thou attitude and his preaching?
and to make it clear... i don't share rusmeister's views on gays. But I am with him with this gay parenting issue.

natlee
25-08-2016, 20:37
I get all gooses bumps when I see someone so in love. Ah but it's hell - unless, of course, it's yourself you're in love with! :)

AstarD
25-08-2016, 21:56
Thank you to Astar for posting a picture of two beautiful young women and a cute child.
I like the "go ask your mom" joke, it is funny.
Nevertheless, what if the picture had two bald middle-aged men? if the child was not so cute?
Can Rus be right (in this case) even though we don't like his hollier-than-thou attitude and his preaching?
and to make it clear... i don't share rusmeister's views on gays. But I am with him with this gay parenting issue.As I said, I posted it because I thought it was funny. I myself am not entirely approving of gay marriage nor of gay parenting. However, unlike Rus (at least it seems to me), I see various levels of evil in life, and for me one of the worst levels of evil is consigning children to an institution when there are adults who are capable and want to take care of them. I do think it's ideal that a child be raised in a regular man/woman nuclear family. But because we can't give every child the ideal, shall we then keep them in the most evil situation? All humans are flawed--even heterosexual family pairs. Rus fixates on the idea that children should have a mother and a father, but this is not always possible. I think it is a sin to keep children in an orphanage or even in foster care when there are law-abiding, fiscally able people who want to give a home to somebody. I think it's wrong for married couples to try in vitro and expensive treatments to try to have a baby from their own bodies instead of taking a child that needs a parent instead of a keeper.

natlee
25-08-2016, 22:03
As I said, I posted it because I thought it was funny. I myself am not entirely approving of gay marriage nor of gay parenting. However, unlike Rus (at least it seems to me), I see various levels of evil in life, and for me one of the worst levels of evil is consigning children to an institution when there are adults who are capable and want to take care of them. I do think it's ideal that a child be raised in a regular man/woman nuclear family. But because we can't give every child the ideal, shall we then keep them in the most evil situation? All humans are flawed--even heterosexual family pairs. Rus fixates on the idea that children should have a mother and a father, but this is not always possible. I think it is a sin to keep children in an orphanage or even in foster care when there are law-abiding, fiscally able people who want to give a home to somebody. I think it's wrong for married couples to try in vitro and expensive treatments to try to have a baby from their own bodies instead of taking a child that needs a parent instead of a keeper. Agree with all except for the last sentence - see your point, but would not say that it is "wrong".

shurale
25-08-2016, 22:35
Sterilization and we will not have to deal with lots of problems. Including gay parenting....
and I think Bible doesn't disprove sterilization, does it?

TolkoRaz
25-08-2016, 22:37
Thank you to Astar for posting a picture of two beautiful young women and a cute child.
I like the "go ask your mom" joke, it is funny.
Nevertheless, what if the picture had two bald middle-aged men? .

In that case, the title of the thread would have been very accurate!

TolkoRaz
25-08-2016, 22:38
I think it's wrong for married couples to try in vitro and expensive treatments to try to have a baby from their own bodies instead of taking a child that needs a parent instead of a keeper.

Really? Surely it is their money, their flesh and blood, and their choice?

TolkoRaz
25-08-2016, 22:40
Sterilization and we will not have to deal with lots of problems. Including gay parenting....
and I think Bible doesn't disprove sterilization, does it?

May be not sterilization in that day, but what about castration by a hot knife, or 2 rocks?

Uncle Wally
25-08-2016, 22:48
Ah but it's hell - unless, of course, it's yourself you're in love with! :)

No I hate myself, I am my biggest critic. I hate to listen to my own recordings, watching myself on tv/video, I always think I could have done better. I can always satisfy myself but the question in my mind is "did I satisfy them/her?" For some strange reason I can do what I want, but if someone is watching they must enjoy it too. I am overly clean, like a girl, because if I meet someone I don't want to offend them with my smell. The guy I live with now makes fun of me because I don't use toilet paper and wash my Bum or take a shower after every poop. I hate dirt, mess, disorder. I have to wash all pans pots and anything I cooked with while I cook and before I can sit down and eat. I was late to the studio many times because I could not leave home if anything was dirty. Maybe it's because being a drummer we have so many things to set up and care about I don't know or maybe it was growing up wth a mother that was insanely clean or a mix of both but it gave me a sense of self consciousness. I always stood out and people always looked at me, famous where ever I go. In St. Pete I had a girl yell out a second story window that I looked cool and if I wanted to smoke. You must understand how it is when you go out and people stare at you. I remember riding my bike in America and hearing a car slowing down and thinking, "**** it's some cop" but to just realize it was a woman slowing down to get a good look at my ass. I complain to a teacher one time that I was blamed for anything and everything bad that happened in school. She told me it was because I stood out in a crowd. At the time I was too dumb or young to understand her but we met a few years after and it all "clicked". So all this love I got from people just made me wonder because my dad pushed me to be better and was never satisfied, then I had strangers wanting to "be my friend" help me or just give me things. It kind of freaks you out. I can understand when I play drums and inspire someone but to just walk down the street? I met my second Russian wife on the metro because she just couldn't stop staring and smiling at me that I just had to talk with her. Just yesterday I had a young girl look at me as we got on the metro and start preening herself because she caught me looking at her, (she was very sexy and I couldn't help myself) I have girl come up to me and tell me "I look cool". Am I to blame because my life has been so easy? Ok I was played a good hand and maybe played it badly. I was stupid and it took me 20 years to realize but when I did I tried to be good. As my friend says "what to do?" My life has been easy and not by my own doing, I hate it but it's all that I know. I have learned to live with myself now that I'm dying and have no regrets because I was trying to be better but it may have not worked out to what other people think but that's not what your life is about.

Here is a song for you natlee and I want you to believe that no matter what people think you are better and more wonderful that any man can ever see.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9etJNbPYGrE

rusmeister
26-08-2016, 00:41
As I said, I posted it because I thought it was funny. I myself am not entirely approving of gay marriage nor of gay parenting. However, unlike Rus (at least it seems to me), I see various levels of evil in life, and for me one of the worst levels of evil is consigning children to an institution when there are adults who are capable and want to take care of them. I do think it's ideal that a child be raised in a regular man/woman nuclear family. But because we can't give every child the ideal, shall we then keep them in the most evil situation? All humans are flawed--even heterosexual family pairs. Rus fixates on the idea that children should have a mother and a father, but this is not always possible. I think it is a sin to keep children in an orphanage or even in foster care when there are law-abiding, fiscally able people who want to give a home to somebody. I think it's wrong for married couples to try in vitro and expensive treatments to try to have a baby from their own bodies instead of taking a child that needs a parent instead of a keeper.

This sounds kind and liberal. But I can take this argument (over your objections) and take adults under psychiatric care as potential caretakers. If a person is mentally disturbed, does that make it OK to give him a child because having the child in an orphanage is worse than anything? In short, are there, or are there not classes or types of people whom we admit we wouldn't want to give children to?

JPS
26-08-2016, 06:38
No I hate myself, I am my biggest critic. I hate to listen to my own recordings, watching myself on tv/video, I always think I could have done better. I can always satisfy myself but the question in my mind is "did I satisfy them/her?" For some strange reason I can do what I want, but if someone is watching they must enjoy it too. I am overly clean, like a girl, because if I meet someone I don't want to offend them with my smell. The guy I live with now makes fun of me because I don't use toilet paper and wash my Bum or take a shower after every poop. I hate dirt, mess, disorder. I have to wash all pans pots and anything I cooked with while I cook and before I can sit down and eat. I was late to the studio many times because I could not leave home if anything was dirty. Maybe it's because being a drummer we have so many things to set up and care about I don't know or maybe it was growing up wth a mother that was insanely clean or a mix of both but it gave me a sense of self consciousness. I always stood out and people always looked at me, famous where ever I go. In St. Pete I had a girl yell out a second story window that I looked cool and if I wanted to smoke. You must understand how it is when you go out and people stare at you. I remember riding my bike in America and hearing a car slowing down and thinking, "**** it's some cop" but to just realize it was a woman slowing down to get a good look at my ass. I complain to a teacher one time that I was blamed for anything and everything bad that happened in school. She told me it was because I stood out in a crowd. At the time I was too dumb or young to understand her but we met a few years after and it all "clicked". So all this love I got from people just made me wonder because my dad pushed me to be better and was never satisfied, then I had strangers wanting to "be my friend" help me or just give me things. It kind of freaks you out. I can understand when I play drums and inspire someone but to just walk down the street? I met my second Russian wife on the metro because she just couldn't stop staring and smiling at me that I just had to talk with her. Just yesterday I had a young girl look at me as we got on the metro and start preening herself because she caught me looking at her, (she was very sexy and I couldn't help myself) I have girl come up to me and tell me "I look cool". Am I to blame because my life has been so easy? Ok I was played a good hand and maybe played it badly. I was stupid and it took me 20 years to realize but when I did I tried to be good. As my friend says "what to do?" My life has been easy and not by my own doing, I hate it but it's all that I know. I have learned to live with myself now that I'm dying and have no regrets because I was trying to be better but it may have not worked out to what other people think but that's not what your life is about.

Photo of yourself or your just a narcissist.

Uncle Wally
26-08-2016, 07:53
Photo of yourself or your just a narcissist.


Could be. I don't have any photos to post but how about a video? It's a few years ago I was 49 years old, I'm the one playing drums.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=acQ2ukRNNlM

AstarD
26-08-2016, 08:42
This sounds kind and liberal. But I can take this argument (over your objections) and take adults under psychiatric care as potential caretakers. If a person is mentally disturbed, does that make it OK to give him a child because having the child in an orphanage is worse than anything? In short, are there, or are there not classes or types of people whom we admit we wouldn't want to give children to?
I guess you wouldn't, as you seem to think homosexuals are mentally disturbed. I think people are born that way--although not the 10 percent touted by most advocates. I don't see them as any worse sinners than anyone else. And it's not the state's job to impose religion on it's decision-making process.

rusmeister
26-08-2016, 14:32
I guess you wouldn't, as you seem to think homosexuals are mentally disturbed. I think people are born that way--although not the 10 percent touted by most advocates. I don't see them as any worse sinners than anyone else. And it's not the state's job to impose religion on it's decision-making process.

No, it's not about being "mentally" disturbed, though a mental failure generally follows the spiritual one. It is having a fundamentally wrong view of life, one destructive to both the human soul and society, and trying to get it treated as normal.

They are NOT "worse sinners" than anyone else; I never said that, that is a strawman claim that distorts what I am saying.

We are NOT talking about "the state imposing religion". We are talking about the state imposing IRRELIGION, of requiring all to acknowledge this parodic arrangement of the family as legitimate by law, and punishing those who disagree, which is what has been happening for some time now in the West. It means treating a denial of their relationship to be legitimate as criminal. It makes criminals out of all the ordinary people who say this is wrong.

Nothing you say responds to the archbishop's observations in the interview, or to the fact that it does mean that fathers - or mothers - are dispensable, and not a natural need of children.

shurale
26-08-2016, 14:41
May be not sterilization in that day, but what about castration by a hot knife, or 2 rocks?

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."

AstarD
26-08-2016, 15:36
No, it's not about being "mentally" disturbed, though a mental failure generally follows the spiritual one. It is having a fundamentally wrong view of life, one destructive to both the human soul and society, and trying to get it treated as normal.

They are NOT "worse sinners" than anyone else; I never said that, that is a strawman claim that distorts what I am saying.

We are NOT talking about "the state imposing religion". We are talking about the state imposing IRRELIGION, of requiring all to acknowledge this parodic arrangement of the family as legitimate by law, and punishing those who disagree, which is what has been happening for some time now in the West. It means treating a denial of their relationship to be legitimate as criminal. It makes criminals out of all the ordinary people who say this is wrong.

Nothing you say responds to the archbishop's observations in the interview, or to the fact that it does mean that fathers - or mothers - are dispensable, and not a natural need of children.Because I didn't read the Bishop's comments or the interview. I'm not interested. Believe it or not, I have given this issue a great deal of thought and I don't feel the need for a Bishop's opinion. I was reared in a Pentecostal church and I don't have to have someone interpret life through the spectrum of tradition for me. I can read the Bible myself and the Holy Spirit gives me guidance.

rusmeister
26-08-2016, 18:16
Because I didn't read the Bishop's comments or the interview. I'm not interested. Believe it or not, I have given this issue a great deal of thought and I don't feel the need for a Bishop's opinion. I was reared in a Pentecostal church and I don't have to have someone interpret life through the spectrum of tradition for me. I can read the Bible myself and the Holy Spirit gives me guidance.

Astar, even I don't look to the Archbishop as a definite authority of Tradition for me. He's Catholic, I'm not. I don't accept the authority of the Catholic Church. His religious authority has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

But you really ARE ignorant of the practical, secular case against gay marriage, and it's not even because "the Bible (or Church) tells me so", and at this point, it's beginning to look like willful ignorance of that case. It is very much about what a family is, what a father is, and what a mother is, what a child needs in terms that even atheists like Andy or Wally would admit, and it's not a book, just a newspaper article.

And it is another practical point that as soon as this is legalized, people who object are persecuted and punished by law. That's another thing advocates of this stuff refuse to respond to.

AstarD
26-08-2016, 18:19
You are determined to ascribe ignorance to me of this issue. I am NOT ignorant of the secular case against gay marriage. Nor am I ignorant or uncaring about the slippery slope it presents and the ridiculousness in America and the West about "hate speech" and such if one merely tolerates and doesn't approve.

shurale
26-08-2016, 22:35
"When I mention bestiality or pedophilia in the same sentence with homosexuality, people say ‘Carson says they’re the same.’ Of course they’re not the same. That point was if you change the definition of marriage for one group, you’ll have to change it for the next group and the next group,” Ben Carson, retired neurosurgeon and former candidate for President of USA.
So, a child can be brought up by a man and a goat. Why not?

rusmeister
26-08-2016, 23:22
You are determined to ascribe ignorance to me of this issue. I am NOT ignorant of the secular case against gay marriage. Nor am I ignorant or uncaring about the slippery slope it presents and the ridiculousness in America and the West about "hate speech" and such if one merely tolerates and doesn't approve.

If this is so, why did you title the thread as you did?

AstarD
27-08-2016, 00:36
That's the name of the picture. I posted a funny picture. Why you refuse to take things at face value and always seek deeper meaning where none was intended must have something to do with your medical condition.

shurale
27-08-2016, 01:17
That's the name of the picture. I posted a funny picture. Why you refuse to take things at face value and always seek deeper meaning where none was intended must have something to do with your medical condition.

Report him to GLAAD!

rusmeister
27-08-2016, 20:20
That's the name of the picture. I posted a funny picture. Why you refuse to take things at face value and always seek deeper meaning where none was intended must have something to do with your medical condition.

Because it's really not funny. People are actually doing this. If it were a ridiculous thing to do, THEN it would be funny. But it's not. And you defend what they do at every turn. You yourself do not mean it as mere humor; that is obvious from the collective sense of your posts. You think it good and right, and so, similarly seriously.

Uncle Wally
27-08-2016, 21:30
That's the name of the picture. I posted a funny picture. Why you refuse to take things at face value and always seek deeper meaning where none was intended must have something to do with your medical condition.


No, you think it's funny but other people may think it's not. Oh ha ha gay people raising children in a wrapped sense of what is normal. Normally a woman doesn't want to have sex with another woman. It comes to nothing, does not produce a child or living human. So what is it good for? It's just like RL wanting to have sex with animals, a path to destruction for the human race. Sorry but I really can't understand why. Why someone would want to **** with a child's mind.


I grew up with a gay brother, it wasn't until I was I was 25 that I had to watch him kiss a man. It made me sick! Just like if I had to see RL kissing a dog, cat, goat, sheep. We are not here for are own self greed. It is not about pleasing ourselves. You will only understand that when you have a child. So don't speak about gays and don't speak about children until you have had one or have been one.

JPS
27-08-2016, 22:43
So many bigots here...

rusmeister
28-08-2016, 06:06
So many bigots here...

And the irony of genuine bigotry is that it does not see itself. It is the mark of the person who says, "You are a bigot, because you disagree with me, and I don't want to trouble to actually argue in an intelligent sense, to actually defend my ideas." It is not limited to religious bigotry (there is such a thing); irreligious bigotry is prevalent, and even predominant in our time.

It is not bigotry to be certain that we are right, but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might have gone wrong.

“Bigotry may be roughly defined as the anger of men who have no opinions. It is the resistance offered to definite ideas by that vague bulk of people whose ideas are indefinite to excess. Bigotry may be called the appalling frenzy of the indifferent. This frenzy of the indifferent is in truth a terrible thing; it has made all monstrous and widely pervading persecutions. In this degree it was not the people who cared who ever persecuted; the people who cared were not sufficiently numerous. It was the people who did not care who filled the world with fire and oppression. It was the hands of the indifferent that lit the faggots; it was the hands of the indifferent that turned the rack. There have come some persecutions out of the pain of a passionate certainty; but these produced, not bigotry, but fanaticism--a very different and a somewhat admirable thing. Bigotry in the main has always been the pervading omnipotence of those who do not care crushing out those who care in darkness and blood.” GKC, "Heretics"

The thing is, the people who support evils DON'T want anything truly defined. They want to keep ideas vague, and talk about moral issues as personal preferences (as long as they are not a victim of the moral preferences of others).

Bigotry and fanaticism really are equal and opposite evils.

Uncle Wally
28-08-2016, 07:24
So many bigots here...



Why because we don't think children who have already had to suffer the horror of losing their parents shouldn't be forced into a abnormal relationship?