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View Full Version : I'm back from the Crimea (and Moscow, Rostov, etc.)



fenrir
17-08-2015, 21:02
Have I missed much in the last 2+ weeks?

JPS
17-08-2015, 21:36
Have I missed much in the last 2+ weeks?

Just the usual suspects being paid Kremlin trolls. RL making more sense than almost everyone else put together and FatAndy being irreverent (but pleasant) as usual.

Oh, and Uncle Willy being sin binned.

:)

Benedikt
17-08-2015, 22:11
Fenrir, no internet down south? so you could keep up to date?

fenrir
17-08-2015, 22:11
Oh, and Uncle Willy being sin binned.:)

I missed the vodka king being binned? Damn!

fenrir
17-08-2015, 22:15
Fenrir, no internet down south? so you could keep up to date?

My mobile had no signal in the Crimea (all was well in Moscow and Rostov) due to the sanctions and even though there was wifi in various cafes, bars and restaurants, I was with family and friends and didn't have time to do more than check my email.

TolkoRaz
17-08-2015, 22:29
Just the usual suspects being paid Kremlin trolls. RL making more sense than almost everyone else put together and FatAndy being irreverent (but pleasant) as usual.

Oh, and Uncle Willy being sin binned.

:)

RL = RusskiLad? I thought that he had left the site ages ago and had not returned? :confused:

JPS
17-08-2015, 22:45
RL = RusskiLad? I thought that he had left the site ages ago and had not returned? :confused:

Still here (http://forum.expat.ru/showthread.php?669465-MH17-Russian-missile-parts-at-Ukraine-crash-site&p=1427203#post1427203)

Uncle Wally
17-08-2015, 23:21
My mobile had no signal in the Crimea (all was well in Moscow and Rostov) due to the sanctions and even though there was wifi in various cafes, bars and restaurants, I was with family and friends and didn't have time to do more than check my email.


You like the sanctions huh?

It must have been so bad in Crimea too? You know all those Russian troops suppressing everyone.

fenrir
17-08-2015, 23:39
You like the sanctions huh?

It must have been so bad in Crimea too? You know all those Russian troops suppressing everyone.

What do you know about the Crimea? This was my third trip there. You have never been there. I believe my eyes over your drivel.

quincy
17-08-2015, 23:51
You like the sanctions huh?

It must have been so bad in Crimea too? You know all those Russian troops suppressing everyone.

The Russian troops were suppressing everyone. But he had a lucky escape to tell the horror stories. The New York Times, Boston Globe,CNN, Public Radio, NBC..will all be be keen to run his eyewitness accounts and if the stories are not as spine chilling as their editors would want them to be, the editors will add the necessary ingredients to make sure the right level of propaganda reaches the news consuming public

fenrir
17-08-2015, 23:56
The Russian troops were suppressing everyone. But he had a lucky escape to tell the horror stories. The New York Times, Boston Globe,CNN, Public Radio, NBC..will all be be keen to run his eyewitness accounts and if the stories are not as spine chilling as their editors would want them to be, the editors will add the necessary ingredients to make sure the right level of propaganda reaches the news consuming public

Quote the horror stories I have given. Come on, big guy. You opened your big, fat mouth; Now, put up or shut up.

quincy
17-08-2015, 23:58
Quote the horror stories I have given. Come on, big guy. You opened your big, fat mouth; Now, put up or shut up.

No horror stories then? You've let everyone down! What will those editors do?

fenrir
18-08-2015, 00:05
No horror stories then? You've let everyone down! What will those editors do?

So, you are admitting you have just lied to be a drama queen. Good for you.

quincy
18-08-2015, 00:20
So, you are admitting you have just lied to be a drama queen. Good for you.

Well, if Crimea felt like a normal place maybe you should start questioning all the spin that is constantly put out in the "free media" instead of repeating them!

Uncle Wally
18-08-2015, 02:08
So, you are admitting you have just lied to be a drama queen. Good for you.



I think it's called sarcasm.


So all is normal in Crimea, wow who would have thunk it with all those nasty Russian invaders!

Uncle Wally
18-08-2015, 02:12
Quote the horror stories I have given. Come on, big guy. You opened your big, fat mouth; Now, put up or shut up.


Oh you big tuff guy you. Why didn't you talk like that when you were in Moscow?

Judge
18-08-2015, 07:09
Just the usual suspects being paid Kremlin trolls. RL making more sense than almost everyone else put together and FatAndy being irreverent (but pleasant) as usual.

Oh, and Uncle Willy being sin binned.

:)

RL making sense,, like when he said unemployment is like it was back in 2008 and that there are hardly any tourists visiting St Petes this summer.

Fantastika
18-08-2015, 07:45
Fenrir, what is the "horror story" in Crimea? The pensioners are getting 4x their Ukrainian pension pittance, and they are allowed to watch TV channels in Russian language now, so...?

Fantastika
18-08-2015, 08:00
So, you are admitting you have just lied to be a drama queen. Good for you.

Fen, instead of going back into reactive mode, just tell us, what was the scene in Krim?

fenrir
18-08-2015, 08:51
Oh you big tuff guy you. Why didn't you talk like that when you were in Moscow?

We're still waiting for you to lead the invasion of Estonia by storming the Narva bridge, broken vodka bottle in hand.

fenrir
18-08-2015, 08:57
I think it's called sarcasm.


So all is normal in Crimea, wow who would have thunk it with all those nasty Russian invaders!

When did I say 'all is normal?' Actually, I haven't commented at all except to say I had no mobile signal, so you and quincy are just making things up. Look at how you two have already tried to start a narrative about my trip with NO INFORMATION. It's actually telling about your mental states. It also demonstrates how anything you say about bigger issues cannot be trusted without ironclad supporting evidence because you have just shown how you conjure things out of thin air.

fenrir
18-08-2015, 09:48
Fen, instead of going back into reactive mode, just tell us, what was the scene in Krim?

You would go into reactive mode if they had done the same to you. It wasn't even about twisting words or stories around; they just started talking ---- based on nothing.

Since you have asked a normal question, I am more than happy to write about the trip and what I saw/heard. I have to go to meet some clients now but will write something in the afternoon.

bydand
18-08-2015, 09:48
When did I say 'all is normal?' Actually, I haven't commented at all except to say I had no mobile signal, so you and quincy are just making things up. Look at how you two have already tried to start a narrative about my trip with NO INFORMATION. It's actually telling about your mental states. It also demonstrates how anything you say about bigger issues cannot be trusted without ironclad supporting evidence because you have just shown how you conjure things out of thin air.

Anyway, if Fenrir disclosed something Wally didn't like, Wally would demand a Youtube video; or it didn't happen.

fenrir
18-08-2015, 16:12
I don't have much time as I have to get to a birthday party (you've got to love summer when you are teacher and can do these sorts of things during the afternoon). Moscow and Rostov I'll save for later.

We (six members of our family who traveled there) had a great time. We spent 15 days primarily in and around Yalta. We didn't do much in the way of excursions because we had done that already during the previous 2 trips. This trip was more about relaxing and having fun.

The big pluses were that people were friendly and helpful, and we never once had any real difficulty. Even the kids coming down with a stomach bug for a couple of days didn't dampen things as they recovered quickly. It was a bit creepy that in all 15 days, I came across no other native English speakers and I was out and about a lot. We did encounter a family of Spaniards and another from Portugal, but there were very, very few foreign languages to be heard. Still, even though my speaking in English to my family turned lots of heads, nothing negative came out of it.

One thing that was bad for Yalta but good for us was that the number of tourists was way down. We were by the quayside/port/promenade area two Friday/Saturday nights and where the crowds in the past were so thick you almost had to push your way through them and most cafes and restaurants were packed, this time the crowds were quite manageable and most places were half-full at best, so we could always get a table without waiting. I would say that overall, the level of service has improved a lot.

Prices. They were strange. Some things in shop/supermarkets were as expensive as in Moscow. We noticed that prices varied wildly from shop to shop and not always in a logical way. For example, some shops near expensive hotels had lower prices than those near more modest accommodation. My father-in-law is a very gregarious person and can make conversation with anyone. He talked to many of the locals and they were quite upset with the rocketing prices, which far outstripped whatever increases in salary they got. It was a common theme. Our driver had a lot of interesting stories about the 'nationalizations' of companies and private property that went on.

One thing I did notice and found unexpected was the lack of Russian flags flying from cars. There weren't any. From video footage I had seen earlier, I had expected to see them everywhere. Btw, Russian traffic cops were out in force and they were doing a good job. Our driver said they are WAY less corrupt than the Ukrainian ones from before.

I've got to go but I will get to Simferopol airport next.

Fantastika
19-08-2015, 00:24
There wouldn't be many Russian flags. They've achieved their goal, to get away from Ukraine. That's done, so there's no need to fly Russian flags to remind everyone of the goal. The new goal is to clean up the corruption in the new (Russian) government.

Russian Lad
19-08-2015, 03:20
RL making sense,, like when he said unemployment is like it was back in 2008 and that there are hardly any tourists visiting St Petes this summer.

Unemployment is probably worse by now than in 2008. It is crisis (admitted even by the authorities), how can employment be better in a crisis than it was before it? And again, there is employment and there is employment. There are jobs available even in Somalia, for two-three bucks per day. The salaries in rubles (99% of Russians are getting paid in rubles) have lost over 100% in their dollar value (and almost 100% in their euro value) - it means less traveling abroad, less foreign made quality goods, medication, etc., and the ruble continues to go down. The Russians are paying through their noses.
As to the tourists in Saint Pete, I have already said that there are always tourists here. There were tourists here even in 1989, in 1991 and in 1993. There were even tourists here in 1937 and in 1938 (and even in 1917). So what??? It is nothing in comparison with what it used to be though.
You guys have stopped making any sense at this point. It feels like talking to shadows on a wall that will be gone after the first beams of sunlight.

Judge
19-08-2015, 07:42
RL,
You must always trust what the state tells you ,you know they speak nothing but the truth,:winking:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/state-statistics-show-flat-unemployment-survey-paints-different-story/528168.html

Fantastika
19-08-2015, 07:52
I've got to go but I will get to Simferopol airport next.

You didn't stay at the airport hotel, did you? 3 * maybe. Or the other one, another hundred meters farther away, well, it's a 1 * place... In the city are a few more hotels, but with high prices.

By the way, on the ride in from the airport at Simferopol airport to the city, did you notice the 5-mile low wall, and "soyuz" spray-painted every 10 meters?

Fantastika
19-08-2015, 08:03
RL,
You must always trust what the state tells you ,you know they speak nothing but the truth,:winking:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/state-statistics-show-flat-unemployment-survey-paints-different-story/528168.html

In most economic polls, people will say "Me? Yeah, I'm doing fine, but everyone else, oh, it's terrible for them." So if you conduct a "poll" where you only ask people what they think about the conditions of other people, you will get bad news, which is, of course, what the Moscow Times' agenda is: bad news about Russia.

fenrir
19-08-2015, 10:00
You didn't stay at the airport hotel, did you? 3 * maybe. Or the other one, another hundred meters farther away, well, it's a 1 * place... In the city are a few more hotels, but with high prices.

By the way, on the ride in from the airport at Simferopol airport to the city, did you notice the 5-mile low wall, and "soyuz" spray-painted every 10 meters?

We didn't stay in Simferopol at all. SVO is a world-class airport and going from it to Simferopol was a shock. First, our plane landed some kilometers away from the terminal, taxied for a long time, and let us off to board buses and go for a ride of couple more kilometers until we finally got to the terminal. Then it took 1 hour 15 minutes in an un-air conditioned hall for the luggage to arrive. Just great when you have two young tired children. Our driver patiently waited for us to finally emerge with all our luggage. Traffic out of the airport is also nightmarish. That was about another 15 minutes to get clear.

Leaving was worse. The same terrible traffic existed to get back into the airport. Then there was checking in the baggage in another hot hall with one of the two sets of toilets out of commission and LOTS of people who needed to go. Aeroflot didn't have a separate line for business class. They were allowed to officially cut the line, so the line actually got pushed back as time went on. Thank God we got there early because the people who came later than us spent forever in that line. One lovely young lady flying business class saw my boiling two-year old and let us cut her. She was an angel. The departure lounge was air conditioned and pleasant enough. Then, it was the long bus ride back to the plane far, far away. Our flight left late and while we sat on the runway waiting for clearance, their was no power and the temp in the plane was easily in the 40s. Babies were crying and some of the old people looked like they would need medical attention soon. When asked why no portable power generator was hooked up to the plane, the crew said the airport had them but wouldn't release one for the flight. Finally, we took off and all was well.

Fantastika
19-08-2015, 12:46
Looks like SIP has gone downhill...

I don't remember any traffic there. You were on the four-lane highway leading to the city? At the airport there was a circular area for buses and taxis, but traffic was nonexistent, at any time of the day or night. The bus, at the airport, started out empty, then it accumulated passengers as it approached the city. The hard part was coming back from the city to the airport at any time after 4 PM - every bus was packed to the gills.

There was sparse traffic on the road from the airport to the city, maybe you were going in a different direction?

TolkoRaz
19-08-2015, 13:12
Slava Rossii! :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33985262

Fantastika
19-08-2015, 18:42
Slava Rossii! :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33985262

Another ludicrous attempt at "news" by the BBC.

Russia wants to show that it is here to stay by investing in Crimea. An example of this is an ex-Soviet pioneer camp by the sea that used to be enjoyed by many Ukrainian children, but is now used almost exclusively by Russians.

It's the same children at the school, they are now "Russians" not "Ukrainians."

Way to go, BBC, you get today's Blue Ribbon for "Journalistic Idiocy." :)

TolkoRaz
19-08-2015, 19:34
It is not a school, it is a 'Pioneer Camp' / sports camp catering for Russian children from the Krim and the rest of the Rodina

TolkoRaz
19-08-2015, 21:18
Another ludicrous attempt at "news" by the BBC.

Russia wants to show that it is here to stay by investing in Crimea. An example of this is an ex-Soviet pioneer camp by the sea that used to be enjoyed by many Ukrainian children, but is now used almost exclusively by Russians.

It's the same children at the school, they are now "Russians" not "Ukrainians."

Way to go, BBC, you get today's Blue Ribbon for "Journalistic Idiocy." :)

I watch and read the BBC Newsites as I believe that they are as independent as any are, but which do you suggest I read to gain an untainted picture of World Events?

Fantastika
19-08-2015, 21:54
I watch and read the BBC Newsites as I believe that they are as independent as any are, but which do you suggest I read to gain an untainted picture of World Events?

I thought the BBC was partially government funded?

Recently, the (UK) "Daily Mail" has been breaking investigative reports about US politicians - stories that get no traction until the Daily Mail publishes them.

I always used to read the Washington Times, but their website is not user-friendly. Neither does the Washington Times set their own agenda, they simply respond to the "Progressive" agenda and zero in with remarkable accuracy on the hypocrisy and corruption of the Left. A unparalleled collection of intellectual columnists.

I am using the word "Progressive" = Votes Democrat, in favor of unrestricted abortion, special preferences for women, gays, blacks, Hispanics, and all other non-white straight males, anti-Christian, anti-business *(prefers government control of industry), anti-family *(prefers gay marriage), libertine *(wants marijuana legalized), wants to ban gun ownership, wants to allowed unlimited immigration. In general the Progressive prefers bigger, more powerful government, a central authority controlling everyone's life, and of course, higher taxes.

I am not disagreeing with you that the BBC is "independent" even if it is government-funded, it is engaged in a process of 1) Choosing what stories to pursue and 2) Reporting those stories in a biased manner, thereby setting the agenda. 1) is even more important than 2). 2) (bias) becomes obvious after a while, but 1) (voluntarily suppressing some types of stories) is hard to nail down, because it is difficult to uncover something of which there is no general knowledge.

For example, the media will report on a white cop shooting a black person and not report that the black was a criminal ( #2 - bias). But they will not report a story of a black cop shooting a white teen-ager (#1 - suppression).
The media will report a child finding daddy's gun and accidentally shooting someone, but not report the hundreds of times guns save homeowners and prevent people from becoming victims because they are used in self-defense (#1).

Fantastika
19-08-2015, 21:57
It is not a school, it is a 'Pioneer Camp' / sports camp catering for Russian children from the Krim and the rest of the Rodina

I may be wrong, but I have always used "school" to mean any kind of education or training - from kindegarten through university, even camps...:)

quincy
19-08-2015, 23:51
Another ludicrous attempt at "news" by the BBC.

Russia wants to show that it is here to stay by investing in Crimea. An example of this is an ex-Soviet pioneer camp by the sea that used to be enjoyed by many Ukrainian children, but is now used almost exclusively by Russians.

It's the same children at the school, they are now "Russians" not "Ukrainians."

Way to go, BBC, you get today's Blue Ribbon for "Journalistic Idiocy." :)
It doesn't suit the BBC (or any other western channel) to admit that most Crimeans are ethnic Russians, and in Ukraine, many who have Ukrainian passports are culturally Russian and even the language millions in Ukraine speak is a dialect - a mix of the two

quincy
19-08-2015, 23:56
I watch and read the BBC Newsites as I believe that they are as independent as any are, but which do you suggest I read to gain an untainted picture of World Events?

There is no one channel that will give you an untainted picture! The BBC will regularly condemn Russia or present Russia in a negative light, but will never condemn the invasion and occupation by NATO member Turkey of Cyprus. Thousands died in that invasion
Media channels everywhere are linked to the establishment, and will present the news to suit the interests of this group

Nobbynumbnuts
20-08-2015, 00:37
....The BBC will regularly condemn Russia or present Russia in a negative light, but will never condemn the invasion and occupation by NATO member Turkey of Cyprus. Thousands died in that invasion........

Turkey declared the occupied areas of the Republic of Cyprus to be a "Federated Turkish State", to the universal condemnation of the international community (see United Nations Security Council Resolution 367).[93] The United Nations recognizes the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus according to the terms of its independence in 1960. The conflict continues to affect Turkey's relations with Cyprus, Greece, and the European Union. WIKI :sleeping2:

Uncle Wally
20-08-2015, 11:56
Turkey declared the occupied areas of the Republic of Cyprus to be a "Federated Turkish State", to the universal condemnation of the international community (see United Nations Security Council Resolution 367).[93] The United Nations recognizes the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus according to the terms of its independence in 1960. The conflict continues to affect Turkey's relations with Cyprus, Greece, and the European Union. WIKI :sleeping2:



What kind of sanctions have they put on Turkey?

AstarD
20-08-2015, 12:04
Probably the biggest sanction is withholding EU membership.

quincy
20-08-2015, 18:29
Probably the biggest sanction is withholding EU membership.
No.

EU membership talks were opened in spite of the invasion and occupation of 40% of Cyprus.

No sanctions of any sort, economic, military or diplomatic.

It is precisely because of this sharp hypocrisy that the Turkish occupation of Cyprus is almost never mentioned by the media.

AstarD
20-08-2015, 18:47
How far have EU membership talks got? How close is Turkey to becoming a member?

quincy
20-08-2015, 19:00
How far have EU membership talks got? How close is Turkey to becoming a member?

EU officials never stop saying that they want to make Turkey a member. Cyprus or support for Islamic state are not mentioned at least publicly. The US is just as enthusiastic

Nobbynumbnuts
20-08-2015, 19:21
Comparing Cyprus to Ukraine is apples and oranges.

Cyprus was divided when, on 20 July 1974, Turkey occupied a third of the island in response to an Athens-engineered coup aimed at annexing Cyprus to Greece.

As for the media not mentioning it, it was well reported at the time (i remember it) but it's a 40 year old story. Why would the western media be banging on about it now? The island is now shared by Greece and Turkey and situation has settles down..

Fantastika
21-08-2015, 00:33
Which half of Cyprus had the banks that took 30% of everyone's savings account?