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View Full Version : What is it about Waco....should be called Wacko!



vossy7
18-05-2015, 07:20
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32776280

Judge
18-05-2015, 07:46
Nothing wrong with the name, go back to the 1850s,swap bikes for horses,
sports bar for a Saloon ,two rival gangs crossing paths...

vossy7
18-05-2015, 08:35
Nothing wrong with the name, go back to the 1850s,swap bikes for horses,
sports bar for a Saloon ,two rival gangs crossing paths...

And the common denominator ......:ak::ak::ak:

Judge
18-05-2015, 08:36
: Waco police were in part blaming management of the Twin Peaks restaurant where a shooting occurred Sunday that left nine people dead.
“In 34 years of law enforcement, this is the most violent crime scene I have ever seen,” Waco police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said. “There are bodies still here.”
Swanton said managers at the restaurant were aware that tensions between biker gangs were building at the location. The restaurant was hosting a biker event where at least two gangs were using the restaurant as a place to recruit new members, Swanton said.
For more than a week, police had been aware of the event and had asked Twin Peaks management to shut it down in fears that it could turn violent. Those fears were confirmed Sunday when a fight that broke out in a restaurant bathroom spilled out into a bar area and then into the parking lot, Swanton said.
There it turned fatal. Nine are dead, and the death toll could rise, as 18 others are in hospitals, Swanton said.
Police were still combing through the crime scene, where Swanton said they have found more than 100 weapons, including guns, knives and chains, he said.
Police at the scene did fire upon bikers when weapons were pointed toward them. However, in the chaotic gun fight, it was unclear who shot whom, police said.
Law enforcement from the sheriff’s office, McLennan County, the FBI and surrounding communities have swarmed into Waco. The city was on full alert as rumors swirled of continued violence between gangs.
Swanton said police have intelligence that numerous bikers were on the way to the city. If seen, they would be arrested, he said.
Earlier: Police have confirmed that a shootout between rival biker gangs left nine people killed at a Waco restaurant Sunday.
The shooting also left 18 injured from gunshot and stab wounds, according to multiple reports.
Police have closed off the entire Central Texas Marketplace, the location of the Twin Peaks restaurant where the shooting occurred, stating that the area is not safe for anyone to enter. There were fears that members of rival biker gangs may come to the area, Waco station KCEN reported. Three people have been arrested while trying to enter the scene, police said.
Eight people died at the scene and one died at a local hospital, according to the Associated Press.
All nine fatalities were bikers, according to the KCEN report.

TolkoRaz
18-05-2015, 08:58
9 dead! I do not think that will be the end of it! Retribution & Revenge attacks will most likely occur.

Setting that aside, this is another result of guns being easily accessible and freely carried on the person.

When will the US of A learn that so many guns in the hands of its untrained citizens is not the mark of a civilised country or of a global leader.

TolkoRaz
18-05-2015, 09:00
Nothing wrong with the name, go back to the 1850s,swap bikes for horses,
sports bar for a Saloon ,two rival gangs crossing paths...

A good analogy - the mindset has not changed since the days of the cowboy & the 6-shooter!

Uncle Wally
18-05-2015, 22:47
One of the biker gangs was named, Cossacks.

FatAndy
19-05-2015, 12:07
One of the biker gangs was named, Cossacks.
The long hand of Moscow/NKVD/KGB/FSB... and personally The Darkest Lord has reached peaceful US citizens.

Uncle Wally
19-05-2015, 17:58
The long hand of Moscow/NKVD/KGB/FSB... and personally The Darkest Lord has reached peaceful US citizens.


Peaceful? Anything but peaceful.

nicklcool
19-05-2015, 20:47
Setting that aside, this is another result of guns being easily accessible and freely carried on the person.
When will the US of A learn that so many guns in the hands of its untrained citizens is not the mark of a civilised country or of a global leader.

Respectfully disagree, look how easy it was for the Germans to start arresting and massacring Jews once the 1938 gun law allowed them to take away their firearms
The 2nd amendment is the only thing protecting Americans from having even more of their wealth & liberty taken away by the Feds!
Yes the bikers were highly untrained, if it's true that hundreds of rounds were fired then it's amazing that only nine were killed...these are either biker clubs for the colorblind or these chumps have never been to a range!
Of course it's sad that that nine died but I'm 100% sure that more lives are saved annually by legal firearm owners so these nine are a negligible price to pay for that protection.
And please remember according to the FBI stats more are murdered annually by "fists and bludgeon objects" than scary-looking long arms ("assault rifles") so please dig a little deeper before you start clamoring to ban firearms!! :verycool:

TolkoRaz
19-05-2015, 21:28
Respectfully disagree, look how easy it was for the Germans to start arresting and massacring Jews once the 1938 gun law allowed them to take away their firearms
The 2nd amendment is the only thing protecting Americans from having even more of their wealth & liberty taken away by the Feds!
Yes the bikers were highly untrained, if it's true that hundreds of rounds were fired then it's amazing that only nine were killed...these are either biker clubs for the colorblind or these chumps have never been to a range!
Of course it's sad that that nine died but I'm 100% sure that more lives are saved annually by legal firearm owners so these nine are a negligible price to pay for that protection.
And please remember according to the FBI stats more are murdered annually by "fists and bludgeon objects" than scary-looking long arms ("assault rifles") so please dig a little deeper before you start clamoring to ban firearms!! :verycool:

GUN VIOLENCE in the UNITED STATES

Some Indicative Data:

Gun Ownership

The US has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands
Each year about 4.5 million firearms, including approximately 2 million handguns, are sold in the United States

An estimated 2 million second hand firearms are sold each year
The percentage of American households with a gun has been steadily declining (high of 54% in 1977 to 33% in 2009)

The average number of guns per owner has increased from 4.1 in 1994 to 6.9 in 2004.

Sources: Injury Prevention (2007); ATF (2000); National Opinion Research Center (2008); Pew Research Center (2009)

Gun Deaths:

More than 30,000 people are killed by firearms each year in this country

More than 30 people are shot and murdered each day

1/2 of them are between the ages of 18 and 35

1/3 of them are under the age of 20

Homicide is the second leading cause of death among 15-24 year-olds

And the primary cause of death among African Americans of that age group

Gun Homicides (average annually):

Less than 50: Japan

Less than 150: Germany, Italy, France, etc.

Less than 200: Canada

More than 10,000: USA

Source: IANSA (International Action Network on Small Arms of the United Nations)

Injuries and Deaths from Guns

Everytime a gun injures or kills in self-defense, one is used:

11 times for a completed or attempted suicide
7 times in a criminal assault or homicide
4 times in an unintentional shooting death or injury

Source: Journal of Trauma, injury, Infection and Critical Care (1998)


The figures above speak for themselves!

You can fit a silencer to a weapon, but you cannot silence the figures! :10310:

http://heedinggodscall.org/content/pfctoolkit-10

nicklcool
20-05-2015, 05:45
QUOTE=TolkoRaz;1418866]

The figures above speak for themselves!

You can fit a silencer to a weapon, but you cannot silence the figures! :10310:

http://heedinggodscall.org/content/pfctoolkit-10[/QUOTE]
Great stats, TolkoRaz, thanks for sharing!
Sadly though the oft cited fact of higher firearm death rates in the USA vs other countries is about as useful as Obama's stimulus was for our limping economy!
Guns are effectively (or at least comparatively) illegal in those other countries, so if the gun death rates were higher in those countries, it would be nothing short of a miracle!. I'll bet if you compare deaths by equally available means in the countries, such as bludgeon objects, fists and legs, knives, etc, they'd be at least within a standard deviation of each other.
One last thing, yes, the stats show that firearms are more prevalent in America, and yes, firearm deaths are greater in number (duh!), but is the relationship causal?? I think it's merely correlated, and I bet that there are other much more causal factors....we'll just say socioeconomic factors are more predicative of death by firearm than the availability of the firearms, and leave it at that ;)
The point being! The comparison of firearm deaths by country is so overused, and so utterly useless...what else would you expect, when the firearms are much more legally available here than across the pond!? Likewise, I think the other stats are overused in the assumption that they're causal...IMHO (non PC alert! Cover your ears if you fear trigger topics!) race and economic status are much much more predicative of likelihood of death by firearm, than the mere fact that the 2nd amendment allows law abiding Americans to own firearms :0

TolkoRaz
20-05-2015, 09:15
Is there therefore not a justifiable reason, based upon the stats, to remove firearms from the majority of civilians (with the exception of farmers etc)?

Nobbynumbnuts
20-05-2015, 09:17
QUOTE=TolkoRaz;1418866]...Guns are effectively (or at least comparatively) illegal in those other countries, so if the gun death rates were higher in those countries, it would be nothing short of a miracle!...

..that's the whole point. If guns are illegal, numbers of deaths by firearms (and homicide rate in general) is drastically reduced. :10293:

natlee
20-05-2015, 09:41
Is there therefore not a justifiable reason, based upon the stats, to remove firearms from the majority of civilians (with the exception of farmers etc)? Have you spoken to American gun owners? They would eat you alive if you were to so much as mention it! The below has been all over my FB newsfeed for years :evilgrin: :mad:

nicklcool
20-05-2015, 13:12
Is there therefore not a justifiable reason, based upon the stats, to remove firearms from the majority of civilians (with the exception of farmers etc)?



Guns don't kill people; people kill people

See, this is what's so tough, from a public policy standpoint....the guns are not doing the killing, it's the people (in the USA, overwhelmingly poor uneducated OOM from urban single-family homes) doing the killing.

Also, don't the recent killings in Europe by Muslim OOM prove that "remov[ing] firearms from the majority of civilians" just allows criminals to have the guns while law abiding peaceful citizens are left helpless?
IN fact, the European examples of gun violence, and the fact that firearm murders in USA states with liberal concealed carry laws always occur in "gun free" zones would have to suggest that the strict gun laws do just that
-->leave criminals with a great opportunity to carry out their gun crimes with little fear of opposition unless the police happen to make it in time?

Another quote to add to Natlee's collection is that cops arrive to help in minutes when seconds count...when you saw the OOM hacking that cop to death in Britain or the other OOM executing the cop on the street after murdering the Charlie Hebdo writers in Paris, did you not feel that helplessness and wish that a peaceful law-abiding citizen had been present to mete out instant justice on those evil evil men??

So Tolkoraz removing the guns from all to reduce gun violence seems like a boneheaded public policy move....banning is usually the least desirable public policy means to achieve an end, though in China, North Korea and good ol' Mother Russia if you don't count the government-sanctioned killings I'll bet their gun deaths and overall murder rates are much much lower than in the USA...at what cost to freedom and liberty?? :doh:

TolkoRaz
20-05-2015, 13:28
Have you spoken to American gun owners? They would eat you alive if you were to so much as mention it! The below has been all over my FB newsfeed for years :evilgrin: :mad:

Guns do kill people, and Pigeons! :10310:

This week's kills! ;)

It is the person who fires the gun - somebody has to pull the trigger and control the gun!

If any of my rifles or pistols fired of their own accord, I would sell them! ;)

TolkoRaz
20-05-2015, 13:32
See, this is what's so tough, from a public policy standpoint....the guns are not doing the killing, it's the people (in the USA, overwhelmingly poor uneducated OOM from urban single-family homes) doing the killing.

Also, don't the recent killings in Europe by Muslim OOM prove that "remov[ing] firearms from the majority of civilians" just allows criminals to have the guns while law abiding peaceful citizens are left helpless?
IN fact, the European examples of gun violence, and the fact that firearm murders in USA states with liberal concealed carry laws always occur in "gun free" zones would have to suggest that the strict gun laws do just that
-->leave criminals with a great opportunity to carry out their gun crimes with little fear of opposition unless the police happen to make it in time?

Another quote to add to Natlee's collection is that cops arrive to help in minutes when seconds count...when you saw the OOM hacking that cop to death in Britain or the other OOM executing the cop on the street after murdering the Charlie Hebdo writers in Paris, did you not feel that helplessness and wish that a peaceful law-abiding citizen had been present to mete out instant justice on those evil evil men??

So Tolkoraz removing the guns from all to reduce gun violence seems like a boneheaded public policy move....banning is usually the least desirable public policy means to achieve an end, though in China, North Korea and good ol' Mother Russia if you don't count the government-sanctioned killings I'll bet their gun deaths and overall murder rates are much much lower than in the USA...at what cost to freedom and liberty?? :doh:

How many slaughters at schools or at biker restaurants have been confronted and successfully quelled by a young mum dropping her child off at school who just happens to have .32 revolver in her handbag? :confused:

Who opened fire at the Batman Movie slaughter? Only the killer, I seem to recall?

Dirty Harry and Paul Kersey (Death Wish vigilante series) are fantasy figures, not reality sadly! ;)

nicklcool
20-05-2015, 13:43
How many slaughters at schools or at biker restaurants have been confronted and successfully quelled by a young mum dropping her child off at school who just happens to have .32 revolver in her handbag? :confused:

Who opened fire at the Batman Movie slaughter? Only the killer, I seem to recall?

Dirty Harry and Paul Kersey (Death Wish vigilante series) are fantasy figures, not reality sadly! ;)

Tolko both the Colorado movie theater and schools are gun-free zones...how in the world did the gun crimes happen if guns aren't allowed there!? You inadvertently proved my point. The track record is not showing that removing guns from law-abiders stops gun crime, and IMHO the Americans would have to be idiots to allow their government to remove their guns as a public policy experiment and then oh yeah, let's see if gun crimes are reduced as a result!!

natlee
20-05-2015, 13:46
;)

TolkoRaz
20-05-2015, 14:14
Tolko both the Colorado movie theater and schools are gun-free zones...how in the world did the gun crimes happen if guns aren't allowed there!? You inadvertently proved my point. The track record is not showing that removing guns from law-abiders stops gun crime, and IMHO the Americans would have to be idiots to allow their government to remove their guns as a public policy experiment and then oh yeah, let's see if gun crimes are reduced as a result!!

I had read that the weapons, Assault Weapons, used in those attacks were legally held by members of the public!

natlee
20-05-2015, 16:05
Guns do kill people, and Pigeons! :10310:

This week's kills! ;) What did the poor things do to upset you? :eek: :(

nicklcool
20-05-2015, 16:51
I had read that the weapons, Assault Weapons, used in those attacks were legally held by members of the public! :ak:

Yes, Adam Lanza's mom (Connecticut slayings) held the guns legally, bats*it insane orange-haired guy in Colorado had the guns legally; also sex-starved self-proclaimed loser son-of-a-Hollywood director guy in CA who shot up the sorority and a mini-mart owned his Glocks legally (or maybe his dad did, can't remember). All three of those crimes occurred in "gun free" zones showing how useless it would be to outlaw guns as a means of reducing gun violence. :rant:

All three examples ALSO are useless to supporters of "banning" guns or "stricter" gun laws because all three killers (and many of the aluminum-foil-hat crazy mass killers of recent memory) were kooky crazy :nut: and belonged in an insane asylum, which Russia still has but America incoherently closed decades ago (the "liberated" maniacs now populate large portions of our prisons and homeless populations, so not sure how much closing the asylums actually helped them, but that's a topic for another thread).

Don't ban guns!! Just change the laws that only allow commitment if person is a "threat to self and others" and you will mainly only have low-income OOM shooting each other up in the inner cities (sad but mostly true).

Tolko very sad that you shot up the pigeons for no reason - I'm assuming you did not use them for food or their feathers. :fudd: You saw the Hitchcock movie "Birds" right?? Karma can be painful so watch out the next time you're on a city bench surrounded by pigeons!! :yikes:

FWIW I have no skin in the game -- I realized that one, the environment in the USA is such that even if I used a firearm to protect self or property, someone I'd be turned into the aggressor and probably locked up, and two, moving to a "safer" area is a much better way of protecting self and property than living near the ghetto and arming yourself :cool:

But I do think the 2nd amendment should be followed by our government just like all the others in the Bill of Rights.

TolkoRaz
20-05-2015, 17:58
What did the poor things do to upset you? :eek: :(

I was hungry!

TolkoRaz
20-05-2015, 18:04
:ak:

Yes, Adam Lanza's mom (Connecticut slayings) held the guns legally, bats*it insane orange-haired guy in Colorado had the guns legally; also sex-starved self-proclaimed loser son-of-a-Hollywood director guy in CA who shot up the sorority and a mini-mart owned his Glocks legally (or maybe his dad did, can't remember). All three of those crimes occurred in "gun free" zones showing how useless it would be to outlaw guns as a means of reducing gun violence. :rant:

All three examples ALSO are useless to supporters of "banning" guns or "stricter" gun laws because all three killers (and many of the aluminum-foil-hat crazy mass killers of recent memory) were kooky crazy :nut: and belonged in an insane asylum, which Russia still has but America incoherently closed decades ago (the "liberated" maniacs now populate large portions of our prisons and homeless populations, so not sure how much closing the asylums actually helped them, but that's a topic for another thread).

Don't ban guns!! Just change the laws that only allow commitment if person is a "threat to self and others" and you will mainly only have low-income OOM shooting each other up in the inner cities (sad but mostly true).

Tolko very sad that you shot up the pigeons for no reason - I'm assuming you did not use them for food or their feathers. :fudd: You saw the Hitchcock movie "Birds" right?? Karma can be painful so watch out the next time you're on a city bench surrounded by pigeons!! :yikes:

FWIW I have no skin in the game -- I realized that one, the environment in the USA is such that even if I used a firearm to protect self or property, someone I'd be turned into the aggressor and probably locked up, and two, moving to a "safer" area is a much better way of protecting self and property than living near the ghetto and arming yourself :cool:

But I do think the 2nd amendment should be followed by our government just like all the others in the Bill of Rights.

You wrote "All three of those crimes occurred in "gun free" zones showing how useless it would be to outlaw guns as a means of reducing gun violence"

Apologies, but I am struggling to understand the use of 'gun free zone'! Is this a voluntary area or an enforced restricted area like air-side at airports where people are screened / searched for weapons etc?

Or, are you trying to suggest that good law abiding citizens leave their guns at home / in the vehicle when entering a declared 'gun free zone' and that is why nobody engaged the armed attackers?

nicklcool
22-05-2015, 23:13
Apologies, but I am struggling to understand the use of 'gun free zone'! Is this a voluntary area or an enforced restricted area like air-side at airports where people are screened / searched for weapons etc?
Or, are you trying to suggest that good law abiding citizens leave their guns at home / in the vehicle when entering a declared 'gun free zone' and that is why nobody engaged the armed attackers?

No apologies needed; I know, it sounds absurd! There are some people of a "certain" political dissuasion :11581: who think that posting signs and threatening fines or jail time for illegal gun toters will stop criminals from bringing guns to the area! What you and I fail to understand, this group of utopian-thinkers calls "tough gun laws," which cause "good law abiding citizens leave their guns at home / in the vehicle when entering a declared 'gun free zone' and that is why nobody engaged the armed attackers" :11581:

Uncle Wally
22-05-2015, 23:53
I was hungry!



Do you have a good recipe?


Pigeon al la Tolka?

Uncle Wally
22-05-2015, 23:57
:ak:

Yes, Adam Lanza's mom (Connecticut slayings) held the guns legally, bats*it insane orange-haired guy in Colorado had the guns legally; also sex-starved self-proclaimed loser son-of-a-Hollywood director guy in CA who shot up the sorority and a mini-mart owned his Glocks legally (or maybe his dad did, can't remember). All three of those crimes occurred in "gun free" zones showing how useless it would be to outlaw guns as a means of reducing gun violence. :rant:

All three examples ALSO are useless to supporters of "banning" guns or "stricter" gun laws because all three killers (and many of the aluminum-foil-hat crazy mass killers of recent memory) were kooky crazy :nut: and belonged in an insane asylum, which Russia still has but America incoherently closed decades ago (the "liberated" maniacs now populate large portions of our prisons and homeless populations, so not sure how much closing the asylums actually helped them, but that's a topic for another thread).

Don't ban guns!! Just change the laws that only allow commitment if person is a "threat to self and others" and you will mainly only have low-income OOM shooting each other up in the inner cities (sad but mostly true).

Tolko very sad that you shot up the pigeons for no reason - I'm assuming you did not use them for food or their feathers. :fudd: You saw the Hitchcock movie "Birds" right?? Karma can be painful so watch out the next time you're on a city bench surrounded by pigeons!! :yikes:

FWIW I have no skin in the game -- I realized that one, the environment in the USA is such that even if I used a firearm to protect self or property, someone I'd be turned into the aggressor and probably locked up, and two, moving to a "safer" area is a much better way of protecting self and property than living near the ghetto and arming yourself :cool:

But I do think the 2nd amendment should be followed by our government just like all the others in the Bill of Rights.



Sandy Hook never happened and the other two shootings were government mind control, look it up. They need to take your guns away so they can inslave you even more than you already are.

nicklcool
23-05-2015, 05:43
Sandy Hook never happened and the other two shootings were government mind control, look it up.

I spent 5-10 minutes googling this as you suggested, Wally, and now I have an immense headache. ...OMFG who knew that there are people out there in the world who resemble others\celebrities!!?? This obviously means actors were hired to carry out the aurora, CA, and Sandy Hook shootings. Look up the tin foil hat theories on these shootings on the interwebz at your own risk!

Judge
26-05-2015, 01:31
Speculation for now, could it be that the biggest gang in America, the police did most of the killing,



Waco Police Department has admitted that its officers, who were waiting in force for the bikers when they arrived, fired shots at the men.
But the department is still tight-lipped on the question of who shot who, prompting speculation that many, or even all, of the dead and wounded were victims of a massacre by trigger-happy police.
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-1df2-US-Police-accounts-of-biker-battle-called-into-doubt#.VWOh2Zr6i2c

Uncle Wally
26-05-2015, 11:50
Speculation for now, could it be that the biggest gang in America, the police did most of the killing,



https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-1df2-US-Police-accounts-of-biker-battle-called-into-doubt#.VWOh2Zr6i2c


I heard the cops started it all.