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bydand
16-01-2015, 13:40
Are you a nationalist or a patriot? What’s the difference? Well at first glance they may seem similar, but there is a major difference between what drives these two types of people. A nationalist follows with blind faith, while a patriot does what he or she does because it is right. The patriot will always love his or her country, but will not always love or even tolerate what that country is doing. A nationalist will not realize that what the country is doing is wrong, while a patriot will always attempt to stop the beloved country from doing wrong.

http://politicoid.us/nationalism-vs-patriotism-what-is-the-difference/

Uncle Wally
16-01-2015, 13:58
Are you a nationalist or a patriot? What’s the difference? Well at first glance they may seem similar, but there is a major difference between what drives these two types of people. A nationalist follows with blind faith, while a patriot does what he or she does because it is right. The patriot will always love his or her country, but will not always love or even tolerate what that country is doing. A nationalist will not realize that what the country is doing is wrong, while a patriot will always attempt to stop the beloved country from doing wrong.

http://politicoid.us/nationalism-vs-patriotism-what-is-the-difference/



So that puts you in the nationalists category.

bydand
16-01-2015, 14:19
So that puts you in the nationalists category.

:Loco:

Benedikt
16-01-2015, 14:48
[QUOTE=bydand;1390877]Are you a nationalist or a patriot?

an IDIOT...
who elected these clowns, knowing very well tht they arr up to not to much or even less good and competent. but thinking,well, what can i do. my one voice does not count anyway. so maybe i don't go to vote at all. and there are to many of these.....

bydand
16-01-2015, 14:59
[QUOTE=bydand;1390877]Are you a nationalist or a patriot?

an IDIOT...
who elected these clowns, knowing very well tht they arr up to not to much or even less good and competent. but thinking,well, what can i do. my one voice does not count anyway. so maybe i don't go to vote at all. and there are to many of these.....

I don't think those people are necessarily idiots Ben. Maybe apathetic, maybe even uncaring...

bydand
17-01-2015, 19:01
When talking about nationalism and patriotism, one cannot avoid the famous quotation by George Orwell, who said that nationalism is ‘the worst enemy of peace’. According to him, nationalism is a feeling that one’s country is superior to another in all respects, while patriotism is merely a feeling of admiration for a way of life. These concepts show that patriotism is passive by nature and nationalism can be a little aggressive.

Read more: Difference Between Nationalism and Patriotism | Difference Between | Nationalism vs Patriotism http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-nationalism-and-patriotism/#ixzz3P5hGVcew

Matt24
17-01-2015, 19:18
When talking about nationalism and patriotism, one cannot avoid the famous quotation by George Orwell, who said that nationalism is ‘the worst enemy of peace’. According to him, nationalism is a feeling that one’s country is superior to another in all respects, while patriotism is merely a feeling of admiration for a way of life. These concepts show that patriotism is passive by nature and nationalism can be a little aggressive.

Read more: Difference Between Nationalism and Patriotism | Difference Between | Nationalism vs Patriotism http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-nationalism-and-patriotism/#ixzz3P5hGVcew
So what Mr. Orwell was saying was that'Nationalism' is the mental state of being Irish, and Patriotism is what the poor benighted non Irish feel toward the emerald isle, peace will only reign when the rest of yous work out that you all wanna be Mics. Simples thanks Mr Dandd

Armoured
18-01-2015, 19:39
I would call this guy a patriot, and not a nationalist:

http://www.echo.msk.ru/blog/maxkatz/1475682-echo/


идея расширения влияния моей культуры и языка мне всегда нравилась. Я бы хотел, чтобы русский язык, как на посещенной мной Кубе, изучали в университетах большинства стран, чтобы из-за успешного развития России соседние страны стремились к улучшению отношений с ней. Чтобы из соседних стран и со всего мира люди стремились ехать к нам учиться из-за лучших в мире образования и системы управления. Чтобы стремились ехать к нам жить (не только из Молдавии), потому что у нас выше уровень жизни и производительность труда, а соответственно, и зарплаты. Чтобы изучали наш язык потому, что на нём идут лучшие в мире фильмы и написаны лучшие в мире научные работы. Чтобы ездили к нам лечиться потому, что у нас лучшая в мире медицина. Чтобы ездили к нам отдыхать потому, что у нас лучшая в мире инфраструктура для туризма. Ну и так далее. Для меня это и есть русский, российский или какой угодно мир. Именно так, по-моему, можно и нужно расширять своё влияние на мировой арене и именно таким русским миром можно было бы гордиться.

Именно такого мне хотелось бы для моей страны. Но происходит в ней сейчас не это.

Russian Lad
18-01-2015, 20:07
The current "patriots" of Russia are mainly imperialists, dreaming about restoring USSR in its previous borders, fully or at least partially, there is a lot of nationalism there too, but I would say it is a mix of nationalism and imperialism, glued together by chauvinism, xenophobia, religion, racism and the former communist stink. Just my take on it, in a nutshell.
There is a lot of nationalism in Ukraine, too, but it is a defensive nationalism, it is not sprinkled by imperialism. I find there is much less nationalism in Ukraine than in Russia though. They have their fringe groups, but in Russia they seem to be way more numerous and more widely spread, so much so that it has become a mainstream promoted on the very top level. It is a dangerous mix, a creature, a beast if you will, that will begin devouring its creator if not fed on a daily basis.


I would call this guy a patriot, and not a nationalist

Yeah, agree with that.

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 11:47
I would call this guy a patriot, and not a nationalist:

http://www.echo.msk.ru/blog/maxkatz/1475682-echo/
:)
The last phrase is "bingo", in the piece quoted by you. Re-read it. ;)

Armoured
19-01-2015, 12:10
:)
The last phrase is "bingo", in the piece quoted by you. Re-read it. ;)

You mean "А пока мне стыдно."?

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 12:44
You mean "А пока мне стыдно."?
No. In the piece quoted by you.

"Именно такого мне хотелось бы для моей страны. Но происходит в ней сейчас не это."

Armoured
19-01-2015, 13:04
No. In the piece quoted by you.

"Именно такого мне хотелось бы для моей страны. Но происходит в ней сейчас не это."

I suppose I'm being dense, but what is it you're trying to say? That this phrase is the key between nationalist/patriot, or some comment on the piece itself? (I did read it, just not sure what you're driving at...)

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 13:21
I suppose I'm being dense
No, you just look at, but it's better to watch, collect information and facts, analyse and compare ;)


That this phrase is the key between nationalist/patriot, or some comment on the piece itself?
It's about blah-blah-blah of so called "poposition intellectuals". They want "smth good", but it should be done by somebody else. Not by them. :) Doesn't matter if they want to appear patriots, nationalists or other "-sts".
Yes, it's about the article itself, not about bydand's claim as OP.

Armoured
19-01-2015, 13:38
It's about blah-blah-blah of so called "poposition intellectuals". They want "smth good", but it should be done by somebody else. Not by them.

Now I can say read the rest of the piece:

поэтому когда у меня появилась возможность, я занялся тут общественной деятельностью и уже три года пытаюсь с переменным успехом влиять на улучшение наших городов. Эта деятельность забирает у меня много времени и денег, но она мне нравится, и я собираюсь заниматься ей дальше.

Author is a municipal deputy.

Your argument is, anyway, pretty meaningless. What basis do you have to say he wants it done by somebody else?

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 13:43
Author is a municipal deputy.


I know he's a municipal deputy. Since Mar 2012, there was a kind of noise about him in LJ, twitter and other "independent media". Moreover, I know he claimed he'll do nothing on the position, fighting for The TruthЪ in media. :)


What basis do you have to say he wants it done by somebody else?
His words in the article you quote and results of his job as a deputy. ;)

Armoured
19-01-2015, 14:00
Moreover, I know he claimed he'll do nothing on the position, fighting for The TruthЪ in media. :)

It's a nice circular argument. Exclude anyone with different points of view from doing anything, and then when they talk about things, accuse them of 'doing nothing but talking.'

That's what oppositions everywhere actually do.

Uncle Wally
19-01-2015, 14:16
No, you just look at, but it's better to watch, collect information and facts, analyse and compare ;).




He is not wired for that. Just US and it's media good and always right. Russia bad so how could they be right about anything.

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 14:18
It's a nice circular argument. Exclude anyone with different points of view from doing anything, and then when they talk about things, accuse them of 'doing nothing but talking.'

That's what oppositions everywhere actually do.
It's not me who excluded him. He did it himself, publicly claiming he won't do anything as a deputy, just after elections. Now half of his term has gone, his attempts to push Navalny successfully failed, he desperately needs some publicity.

But pls continue :)

Armoured
19-01-2015, 14:34
He is not wired for that. Just US and it's media good and always right. Russia bad so how could they be right about anything.

I think you're talking about someone else.

I'm the one saying "actually, Wally, virtually everything you say has no logical or factual basis."

Armoured
19-01-2015, 14:35
It's not me who excluded him. He did it himself, publicly claiming he won't do anything as a deputy, just after elections. Now half of his term has gone, his attempts to push Navalny successfully failed, he desperately needs some publicity.

Fair enough, in the sense that I don't know enough about his track record as a deputy and won't try to defend that.

However, I do see the exact same argument re-treaded to use against basically the entire 'non-systemic' opposition.

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 14:36
:emote_popcorn:

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 14:39
Fair enough, in the sense that I don't know enough about his track record
Sure - because you're not an entomologist.


and won't try to defend that.
Up to you, you may do if you wish.



I do see the exact same argument re-treaded to use against basically the entire 'non-systemic' opposition.
Because they basically are the same. :devilish:

Uncle Wally
19-01-2015, 14:41
I think you're talking about someone else.

I'm the one saying "actually, Wally, virtually everything you say has no logical or factual basis."



You wouldn't know "logical" if it hit you in the head and you would know fact from Hollywood.


You listen to a small group of people you believe hold your purse strings.

Armoured
19-01-2015, 15:12
You wouldn't know "logical" if it hit you in the head and you would know fact from Hollywood.

"You would know fact from Hollywood"?

Can you even write a logical reply? Like, sentences and stuff?

Uncle Wally
19-01-2015, 16:22
"You would know fact from Hollywood"?

Can you even write a logical reply? Like, sentences and stuff?



Oh wow that hurts so bad! I make a spelling error while you support, lie and make excuses for war criminals and murderers. You'd think that a guy who can make sentences and stuff would know when he's being taken for. You can't even understand that your and your children's (if you have any) future is being stolen. Or maybe you're too much of a puss to do or say anything about it. There is one more option and that is you know what is going on and you believe it's the right way for the world to go. You don't care how many people have to die and suffer to get what you want. That's loony.

Armoured
19-01-2015, 17:23
I make a spelling error while you support, lie and make excuses for war criminals and murderers.

I see. So your argument is that I'm a baby-killer?

Why not just save a step and go straight to calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi?

bydand
19-01-2015, 17:41
Why not just save a step and go straight to calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi?

That position is taken.
Perhaps he could emulate.

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 17:56
:emote_popcorn:

Russian Lad
19-01-2015, 19:55
The deputies, municipal or otherwise, decide pretty much nothing in the modern Russia, because they have built a "manually controlled" vertical of power. So it is really strange to see the opposition blamed for something. The liberal opposition IS NOT in power. They may be blamed for saying something, but they cannot be blamed for something substantial that is not being done (or is being done, for that matter).

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 20:15
The liberal opposition IS NOT in power.
And this is good and correct. :)

Russian Lad
19-01-2015, 20:30
And this is good and correct.

Perhaps you will be surprised, but I fully agree with you. Because when the total collapse comes, the narod needs to understand clearly whom to blame for what has happened. The liberals must abstain from ANY participation in the current government processes, even if asked and begged for participation. Their hands MUST remain clean. For the future.
Like I have been saying for many years now, the current status quo in Russia has been glued together only by high oil prices. Low oil prices and the stifled banking sector + investors run + corruption and ineffective governance is a lethal combination. In my view, it is not just dangerous, it is lethal. I think now we are not very far away from the freeze on the prices of the most essential goods and the resulting shortages/deficits.

FatAndy
19-01-2015, 20:45
Their hands MUST remain clean.
Already n/a :shhhhhh:

Russian Lad
19-01-2015, 20:46
Already n/a

What is that now?:) Liberals cannot be blamed for anything for the last 15 years, so if they come to power, they will start from a clean sheet. Just a reminder - a whole new generation of young people has grown/is growing - they don't remember neither communism nor the beginning of the nineties. They will be the driving force of the new changes in Russia. And these young people will take on and support the liberal agenda once they fully see where the current course has led them and how they have been lied to. It is common logic, Andy. And rest assured - they will choose iphones and Western goods and services in general over Novorossiya any time of the day, when they are really forced to choose. This time is approaching fast. The young generation is already shocked at seeing their salaries' purchasing power slip right through their fingers. I am not sure the frenzy of the propaganda will keep them away from thinking for themselves for a very long time. So far it is suceeding, but wait for a year.

bydand
19-01-2015, 21:33
What is that now?:) Just a reminder - a whole new generation of young people has grown/is growing - they don't remember neither communism nor the beginning of the nineties. They will be the driving force of the new changes in Russia.

Or, they just might emigrate, if possible; as Snowdrift would like.:agree:

Russian Lad
19-01-2015, 23:01
wanta be Russians

If they want to be Russians, why don't they pack their suitcases and come here, to Russia? What's the problem? We seem to have plenty of free space available, the last time I looked at the map. If I want to be an American, I am not planning to demand America becomes a part of Russia.

Uncle Wally
19-01-2015, 23:17
I see. So your argument is that I'm a baby-killer?

Why not just save a step and go straight to calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi?



Why you trying to twist my words? You got nothing else? Isn't it you who is always calling Bennedikt a nazi? No I don't wish to lower myself to your level. You don't kill babies you cheer on the people who do and if you would look a little deeper you would see that it's America that took 1000s of war criminals from the second world war and gave them new identities and jobs working in the CIA. It was Americans who were financing Hitler and giving him the technology to wage war. Where or how did Hitler get the fuel for his war? America.


So no your not a baby killer you are the person standing behind the baby killers hoping to steal some scraps.

Armoured
20-01-2015, 11:50
Why you trying to twist my words? You got nothing else? Isn't it you who is always calling Bennedikt a nazi? No I don't wish to lower myself to your level. You don't kill babies you cheer on the people who do and if you would look a little deeper you would see that it's America that took 1000s of war criminals from the second world war and gave them new identities and jobs working in the CIA. It was Americans who were financing Hitler and giving him the technology to wage war. Where or how did Hitler get the fuel for his war? America.

So no your not a baby killer you are the person standing behind the baby killers hoping to steal some scraps.

You were responding to my point about logic, and claimed I'm illogical. I pointed out even your sentences don't make sense.

And you respond twice with nothing but a blah blah blah of accusations that have nothing to do with anything I've said.

This is just plain personal attacks. And crazy ones at that.

Uncle Wally
20-01-2015, 12:05
You were responding to my point about logic, and claimed I'm illogical. I pointed out even your sentences don't make sense.

And you respond twice with nothing but a blah blah blah of accusations that have nothing to do with anything I've said.

This is just plain personal attacks. And crazy ones at that.



Well you are illogical and understand not about people in power. You live in a fantasy world.

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 13:05
Some off-topic about Donetsk airport fighting was moved there: http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=634772

Pls feel free to discuss patriots and nationalists here.

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 13:10
Just a reminder - a whole new generation of young people has grown/is growing - they don't remember neither communism
Update metodichka, comrade. :D


They will be the driving force of the new changes in Russia.
Maybe.


And these young people will take on and support the liberal agenda once they fully see where the current course has led them and how they have been lied to.
Do you remember the old anecdote - can a son of a Colonel become a General? ;)


And rest assured - they will choose iphones and Western goods and services in general over Novorossiya any time of the day, when they are really forced to choose.
Will see.


but wait for a year.
The refrain is repeating in your posts for which month already? ;)

Russian Lad
20-01-2015, 13:16
The refrain is repeating in your posts for which month already?

Last year I said the ruble would collapse and suggested to wait for a year. All of you thought I was crazy. Well, it collapsed. Sorry. Whoops.:smokin:

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 13:21
Last year I said the ruble would collapse and suggested to wait for a year. All of you thought I was crazy. Well, it collapsed. Sorry. Whoops.:smokin:
How unpatriotic you was... :devilish:

Russian Lad
20-01-2015, 13:23
How unpatriotic you was...

I am being realistic. The current mainstream "patriotism", in my view, has nothing to do with the real patriotism - it is a mockery, a distortion of the real one. A Potemkin village.

bydand
20-01-2015, 13:33
How unpatriotic you was... :devilish:

Not a blind nationalist zombie.
Patriots _are_ more realistic.

Korotky Gennady
24-01-2015, 15:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8moLsg_eT8