PDA

View Full Version : economic situation in the eu



Judge
07-01-2015, 14:43
We can't leave the EU out....

Grexit: three reasons it should not be treated lightly

http://www.theguardian.com/world/nils-pratley-on-finance/2015/jan/05/greek-eu-exit-grexit-analysis-nils-pratley

Judge
07-01-2015, 14:46
Euro falls to 9-year low vs dollar as bets mount on further weakness


The euro fell to a nine-year low against the dollar on Monday as bets mounted that the currency will suffer further declines, faced with the possibility of more monetary easing by the European Central Bank and its diminishing status as a reserve currency.

The euro was in retreat after ECB President Mario Draghi late last week underscored the divergence between European and US monetary policy, which is set to remain a key theme in 2015.

Yaks
07-01-2015, 14:47
Good, means they are finally on the right track.

Judge
07-01-2015, 14:53
Good, means they are finally on the right track.

you mean by they are going to start pumping money? The Germans are against it..

low EURO, good for exports..The Germans will be happy..

Yaks
07-01-2015, 15:04
you mean by they are going to start pumping money? The Germans are against it..

low EURO, good for exports..The Germans will be happy..

The Germans are coming around to it, the carnage is they havent done it sooner.

Judge
07-01-2015, 15:15
The Germans are coming around to it, the carnage is they havent done it sooner.

The Germans don't want to keep bailing out the southern EU zone, Italy is on the brink of collapse.....
Deflation is here for the EU zone, looks like shopping trips to the EU for us in Russia looks to be a bargain,now all we need is for the ruble to gain against the euro...

Yaks
07-01-2015, 15:20
The Germans don't want to keep bailing out the southern EU zone, Italy is on the brink of collapse.....
Deflation is here for the EU zone, looks like shopping trips to the EU for us in Russia looks to be a bargain,now all we need is for the ruble to gain against the euro...

Because the germans have been on a bad policy run. just as russians are afraid of any change because they are afraid of a repeat of the 1990s, so too are Germans afraid of weimer republic inflation. it is part of their psych.

But the whole EU was one big scam to make the deutschmark cheaper. collapsing southern states are a huge problem(though they are a problem for other reasons) providing the german banks continue to lend to them to enable them to buy german goods. the southern countries devalue the eu making german exports cheaper everywhere else compensating for it.

but the EU simply needs to hit the printing press and print money hard and fast and use the strength of the German banks to underwrite everything on the cheap. Then there is no need for a crisis. but the last 3-4 years they have dragged their heels and made the situation worse. but it is still fixable.

Judge
07-01-2015, 17:19
Because the germans have been on a bad policy run. just as russians are afraid of any change because they are afraid of a repeat of the 1990s, so too are Germans afraid of weimer republic inflation. it is part of their psych.
Not that bad, it didn't take the Germans long to get the upperhand ,they are now controlling the EU, before there used to be the big 4 in the EU, the UK,France,Italy and Germany, now Germany are the ones alone running the show...


But the whole EU was one big scam to make the deutschmark cheaper. collapsing southern states are a huge problem(though they are a problem for other reasons) providing the german banks continue to lend to them to enable them to buy german goods. the southern countries devalue the eu making german exports cheaper everywhere else compensating for it.

So you think it's agood idea to pump more money into the system so they could buy more goods.... keep on pushing more debt onto countries that are already in debt...these southern countries can't keep on buying German goods,how many cars and coffee machines can they own....


but the EU simply needs to hit the printing press and print money hard and fast and use the strength of the German banks to underwrite everything on the cheap. Then there is no need for a crisis. but the last 3-4 years they have dragged their heels and made the situation worse. but it is still fixable.

what the EU needs to do is let countries like Greece leave....

Armoured
07-01-2015, 19:52
Deflation is here for the EU zone, looks like shopping trips to the EU for us in Russia looks to be a bargain,now all we need is for the ruble to gain against the euro...

Are you_sure_ that deflation in the EU means a weakening currency?

Usually, it's kind of the opposite.

Alan65
07-01-2015, 20:18
Not that bad, it didn't take the Germans long to get the upperhand ,they are now controlling the EU, before there used to be the big 4 in the EU, the UK,France,Italy and Germany, now Germany are the ones alone running the show..
So you think it's agood idea to pump more money into the system so they could buy more goods.... keep on pushing more debt onto countries that are already in debt...these southern countries can't keep on buying German goods,how many cars and coffee machines can they own....
what the EU needs to do is let countries like Greece leave....

All of the Greeks working throughout Europe would have to go home and it would screw with the Schenghen zone...so it may provoke the law of unintended consequences for them.

Judge
08-01-2015, 23:03
All of the Greeks working throughout Europe would have to go home and it would screw with the Schenghen zone...so it may provoke the law of unintended consequences for them.

Why did they leave in the first place?
how many are we talking about,30k,50k, 100k who left for a brighter future.

The Greeks will probably still have visa free with the EU , Germans and Brits need a cheap place to visit.



More euro news,


The euro fell on Thursday to within a whisker of its value against the dollar when it first launched in January 1999.

The exchange rate hit $1.175, its lowest since December 2005, to continue the longest run of declining values in its history.

the beleaguered 19-member currency bloc’s outlook remains much the same as a year ago, which prompted analysts to attribute the euro’s fall to a flight of funds from Europe to the US as investors were lured by the booming US economy

Russian Lad
08-01-2015, 23:11
More euro news,


The euro fell on Thursday to within a whisker of its value against the dollar when it first launched in January 1999.

The exchange rate hit $1.175, its lowest since December 2005, to continue the longest run of declining values in its history.

the beleaguered 19-member currency bloc’s outlook remains much the same as a year ago, which prompted analysts to attribute the euro’s fall to a flight of funds from Europe to the US as investors were lured by the booming US economy

Not sure how it is some news, it was clear like two months ago Euro will be growing weaker in comparison to the dollar. It is not going to help the ruble.

Judge
08-01-2015, 23:27
Not sure how it is some news, it was clear like two months ago Euro will be growing weaker in comparison to the dollar. It is not going to help the ruble.

Not only weaker but at its weakest ever against the $, good for business, exporters will be happy.Also good for tourists with $..

Benedikt
09-01-2015, 05:43
Not only weaker but at its weakest ever against the $, good for business, exporters will be happy.Also good for tourists with $..



the weakest it was about 80 or 88c to the $ when it started. that is mark/schilling/franc to Euro...
it was he highest when it was some 1.55 to the Dollar. so the depreciation for the whole Euro term is about 15%.
the bankers don't count from one day to the next. they count long term..
(The figures come from yesterday's economic news on the ORF, the Austrian Tv station)
and here a newspaper article..
http://www.kleinezeitung.at/k/wirtschaft/4633820/Euro-faellt-unter-den-Ausgabepreis-von-1999

the tourists are happy indeed. trips to the USA are as cheap as they were never before.
and Imports from the USA? what do they export? most of it is screwed and glued together in China or Malaysia anyway.

Judge
21-01-2015, 08:36
Good read,from one of the few who predicted the 2008 crash.


"The economic prophet who foresaw the Lehman crisis with uncanny accuracy is even more worried about the world's financial system going into 2015"


Those who argue that the US and the UK are growing faster than Europe because they carried out QE early are confusing "correlation with causality". The Anglo-Saxon pioneers have yet to pay the price. "It ain't over until the fat lady sings. There are serious side-effects building up and we don't know what will happen when they try to reverse what they have done."


"They have created so much debt that they may have turned a good deflation into a bad deflation after all."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11358316/Central-bank-prophet-fears-QE-warfare-pushing-world-financial-system-out-of-control.html

Judge
26-01-2015, 08:52
A party that started only 11 years ago wins power in Greece..The first ever victory for an anti-austerity party.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/25/syriza-historic-win-greece-european-union-austerity


“Everyone knows Europe today is a continent with no growth, no inflation, high unemployment. It’s very hard to tell people that Europe is the solution, that it has the answers. What is Europe for?”

this looks like only the beginning, Spain could be the next country to have an anti-austerity government. ...

Judge
28-01-2015, 07:34
It looks like Russia has got a new best friend inside the EU....

Tsipras's first meeting with a foreign ambassador since being elected Greek PM was with Russia's Andrey Maslov.

and the new Greek FM spoke against the earlier sanctions. .....the sanctions weren't in Greece's interest. ..
interesting times ahead for the EU ....

Judge
09-02-2015, 14:32
Tick tock tick tock,

Get ready for Greece to leave euro, says Greenspan,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11399397/Get-ready-for-Greece-to-leave-euro-says-Greenspan.html

FatAndy
09-02-2015, 14:37
Greenspan forces the atmosphere and shakes the boat! :rasta:

Nobbynumbnuts
09-02-2015, 15:56
........what the EU needs to do is let countries like Greece leave....

What the EU needs to do is closer integration. Dissolve control from all the central banks to one-the ECB.
A difficult call, means less sovereignty for member states but one currency and 19 Eurozone countries isn't working.

Nobbynumbnuts
09-02-2015, 16:00
Tick tock tick tock,

Get ready for Greece to leave euro, says Greenspan,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11399397/Get-ready-for-Greece-to-leave-euro-says-Greenspan.html

We had all better pray they don't. Will mean another financial upheaval for all..

Judge
09-02-2015, 16:26
We had all better pray they don't. Will mean another financial upheaval for all..

You scaremonger :punk:, the EU is more prepared than before for a Greek exit,well,that's what they say.....
Another financial upheaval? Millions are already suffering.....


What the EU needs to do is closer integration. Dissolve control from all the central banks to one-the ECB.
A difficult call, means less sovereignty for member states but one currency and 19 Eurozone countries isn't working.

Do you think the UK should adopt the euro?


Greenspan forces the atmosphere and shakes the boat! :rasta:

One union's lost,another's gain....

FatAndy
09-02-2015, 16:44
Do you think the UK should adopt the euro?
What a sacrilege! Do you want to replace those nice pounds with grandma Lizzy to these nasty oiros? :evilgrin:

Nobbynumbnuts
09-02-2015, 16:44
You scaremonger :punk:, the EU is more prepared than before for a Greek exit,well,that's what they say.....
Another financial upheaval? Millions are already suffering.....



Do you think the UK should adopt the euro?



One union's lost,another's gain....

Majority of the debt is to European financial institutions. If Greece leaves they can wave goodbye to it.
Will be disastrous for Greece too but i was thinking more about the rest of us. They'll be a major financial shock that will have repercussions for everyone.

Obviously i don't think the Uk should adopt the euro right now but at sometime in the future i think it will be inevitable...

Judge
09-02-2015, 16:50
Majority of the debt is to European financial institutions. If Greece leaves they can wave goodbye to it.
Will be disastrous for Greece too but i was thinking more about the rest of us. They'll be a major financial shock that will have repercussions for everyone.

Obviously i don't think the Uk should adopt the euro right now but at sometime in the future i think it will be inevitable...

Take the hit, write off the debt, the printing machine is being turned on, just give the banks that money.... digits on the screen mate,oh and more headache for the good old eu tax payers.
how much was written off after the 2008 crisis?

by the time the UK decides to join the euro,there probably won't be a EU left,well not like the one we know now. .

Nobbynumbnuts
09-02-2015, 17:07
Take the hit, write off the debt, the printing machine is being turned on, just give the banks that money.... digits on the screen mate,oh and more headache for the good old eu tax payers.
how much was written off after the 2008 crisis?

by the time the UK decides to join the euro,there probably won't be a EU left,well not like the one we know now. .

What you're saying is a dangerous side effect of QE......"If there's a problem, simply print more money" It doesn't work like that and dangerous for people to think it does.
What happened in 2008 was inevitable, no other way out. If it hadn't been done there would have been catastrophic consequences.

Probably true, Britain will eventually join but it will be a different looking EU when we do.......i hope! ;)

Judge
09-02-2015, 17:41
What you're saying is a dangerous side effect of QE......"If there's a problem, simply print more money" It doesn't work like that and dangerous for people to think it does.
What happened in 2008 was inevitable, no other way out. If it hadn't been done there would have been catastrophic consequences.

Probably true, Britain will eventually join but it will be a different looking EU when we do.......i hope! ;)

That's what they are doing,a trillion euros to be used, nice for the  financial institutions you mentioned earlier....
About Greece,you gotta follow the timeline of the Greeks joining the euro, it was a scam to begin win,the Greek books were cooked to hide their debt,if they didn't they wouldn't have joined...

And they were helped by a  financial institutions that you think needs protecting,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251280/Goldman-Sachs-new-storm-secret-deal-mask-Greek-debts.html

Nobbynumbnuts
09-02-2015, 19:32
......And they were helped by a  financial institutions that you think needs protecting,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251280/Goldman-Sachs-new-storm-secret-deal-mask-Greek-debts.html

We all need protecting. Letting banks go to the wall is not a zero sum game..

Alan65
09-02-2015, 21:12
We all need protecting. Letting banks go to the wall is not a zero sum game..

Never trust the orthodox church...or any church for that matter...and slav.

Uncle Wally
09-02-2015, 22:29
We all need protecting. Letting banks go to the wall is not a zero sum game..



Iceland?

We should hang all bankers, they are nothing but thieves. If they took care of this in 2008 the problem would not be so big now. All they did was to delay and worsen the pain. It will be 100 times as bad. The whole system is rotten and it was made that way to rob people blind. Now maybe you see why America has been building a police state with tanks and harsh tactics. FEMA camps await all who disagree.

Judge
09-02-2015, 22:52
We all need protecting. Letting banks go to the wall is not a zero sum game..

You're changing your tune, I thought you were all for less government intervention. ..

I remember we were discussing state help for farmers,you were against helping out farmers,
it's one rule for hard working farmers and another for corrupt financial institutions.


Iceland?

We should hang all bankers, they are nothing but thieves. If they took care of this in 2008 the problem would not be so big now. All they did was to delay and worsen the pain. It will be 100 times as bad. The whole system is rotten and it was made that way to rob people blind. Now maybe you see why America has been building a police state with tanks and harsh tactics. FEMA camps await all who disagree.

Didn't Iceland jail some of their corrupt bankers?

The country crashed really hard in 2008,the government let the banks fail,now they watch the banks like hawks. ....I visited Iceland in 2013,and I saw no evidence of a crisis,not like you can see in today's Greece..

Judge
09-02-2015, 23:20
Now they are comparing Germany to the Soviet Union. ..


Do we really want Europe to break apart? Anybody who is tempted to think it possible to amputate Greece strategically from Europe should be careful. It is very dangerous. Who would be hit after us? Portugal? What would happen to Italy when it discovers that it is impossible to stay within the austerity straight-jacket?”

“There are Italian officials – I won’t say from which institution - who have approached me to say they support us, but they can’t say the truth because Italy is at risk of bankruptcy and they fear the consequence from Germany. A cloud of fear has been hanging over Europe over recent years. We are becoming worse than the Soviet Union,” he told the Italian TV station RAI.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11400778/Greeces-leaders-stun-Europe-with-escalating-defiance.html

Uncle Wally
10-02-2015, 00:08
You're changing your tune, I thought you were all for less government intervention. ..

I remember we were discussing state help for farmers,you were against helping out farmers,
it's one rule for hard working farmers and another for corrupt financial institutions.



Didn't Iceland jail some of their corrupt bankers?

The country crashed really hard in 2008,the government let the banks fail,now they watch the banks like hawks. ....I visited Iceland in 2013,and I saw no evidence of a crisis,not like you can see in today's Greece..



I'm not sure about jailing bankers but they did let them fail and now are not so bad off. This next crisis will hurt everyone and some jerk bankers are going to tell us only they can save us, don't believe them it is they who made this mess. Only countries with enough gold can hope for less pain than that will inflict the poorer countries.

Tzushima
10-02-2015, 00:31
Do we really want Europe to break apart? Anybody who is tempted to think it possible to amputate Greece strategically from Europe should be careful.

If Greece doesn't figure out some way to pay the loans the troika wants, then the EU will be an organization in name only regardless.

Judge
10-02-2015, 00:44
If Greece doesn't figure out some way to pay the loans the troika wants, then the EU will be an organization in name only regardless.

True, that's what they are scared of,the Greeks leave the EU and eurozone,have a few hard years and get back on their feet,other indebted countries see how the Greeks are doing and go the same way....

Judge
10-02-2015, 00:56
I'm not sure about jailing bankers but they did let them fail and now are not so bad off. This next crisis will hurt everyone and some jerk bankers are going to tell us only they can save us, don't believe them it is they who made this mess. Only countries with enough gold can hope for less pain than that will inflict the poorer countries.

A few were jailed.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-25349240

Nobbynumbnuts
10-02-2015, 01:41
You're changing your tune, I thought you were all for less government intervention. ..

I remember we were discussing state help for farmers,you were against helping out farmers,
it's one rule for hard working farmers and another for corrupt financial institutions.



Didn't Iceland jail some of their corrupt bankers?

The country crashed really hard in 2008,the government let the banks fail,now they watch the banks like hawks. ....I visited Iceland in 2013,and I saw no evidence of a crisis,not like you can see in today's Greece..

The Iceland banking system didn't fail and that's the point. The good people of Iceland didn't loose their savings and the Icelandic economy was eventually able to recover with the implementation of other measures.
A good example of why the government needs to step in and rescue the banking sector (our money) in times of crisis.

Can't remember the discussion about farming but to continue on the theme above; if everyone in the country had all their savings locked up in turnips, in farmers fields, then yes the farmers have to be bailed out....;)

Nobbynumbnuts
10-02-2015, 01:44
I'm not sure about jailing bankers but they did let them fail and now are not so bad off. This next crisis will hurt everyone and some jerk bankers are going to tell us only they can save us, don't believe them it is they who made this mess. Only countries with enough gold can hope for less pain than that will inflict the poorer countries.

The banking system in Iceland didn't completely fail....Icelandic savers got their money back

Uncle Wally
10-02-2015, 02:40
The Iceland banking system didn't fail and that's the point. The good people of Iceland didn't loose their savings and the Icelandic economy was eventually able to recover with the implementation of other measures.
A good example of why the government needs to step in and rescue the banking sector (our money) in times of crisis.

Can't remember the discussion about farming but to continue on the theme above; if everyone in the country had all their savings locked up in turnips, in farmers fields, then yes the farmers have to be bailed out....;)



Saving "our money" with our money, yeah makes no sense. Take tax dollars from people and give that to corrupt bankers? I got a better idea. Close banks hang the bankers sell off what ever is left and pay people back as much as you can. Then this kind of thing won't be happening anymore. How many bank scandals have we had and not one banker goes to jail? Look if your a farmer and your crop fail the banker still wants his money, it's called capitalism. Bailing out failed banks is not capitalism it socialism.

Fantastika
10-02-2015, 03:27
Alan Greenspan is widely recognized and esteemed, he's the "Rusmeister" of economists in the US. :)

http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/09/news/economy/alan-greenspan-greece-will-leave-euro/ (http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/09/news/economy/alan-greenspan-greece-will-leave-euro/)

Greenspan also had some gloomy words about the US financial shenanigans, (Quantitative Easing having some serious side effects) but I can't find a reference.

Judge
10-02-2015, 08:32
The Iceland banking system didn't fail and that's the point. The good people of Iceland didn't loose their savings and the Icelandic economy was eventually able to recover with the implementation of other measures.
A good example of why the government needs to step in and rescue the banking sector (our money) in times of crisis.

Can't remember the discussion about farming but to continue on the theme above; if everyone in the country had all their savings locked up in turnips, in farmers fields, then yes the farmers have to be bailed out....;)
We are talking about governments bailing out financial institutions ,this wasn't the case in Iceland. "Letting banks go to the wall " is the reason why Iceland is doing okay today.
3 Icelandic banks crashed,failed ended up in a pile of rubble, creditors and hedge funds are still owed billions even to this day.....


If you don't believe me,here's what top economists had to say,

Krugman also says:

A funny thing happened on the way to economic Armageddon: Iceland’s very desperation made conventional behavior impossible, freeing the nation to break the rules. Where everyone else bailed out the bankers and made the public pay the price, Iceland let the banks go bust and actually expanded its social safety net. Where everyone else was fixated on trying to placate international investors, Iceland imposed temporary controls on the movement of capital to give itself room to maneuver.


Barry Ritholtz noted last year:

"Rather than bailout the banks — Iceland could not have done so even if they wanted to — they guaranteed deposits (the way our FDIC does), and let the normal capitalistic process of failure run its course.
They are now much much better for it than the countries like the US and Ireland who did not."

I totally agree with this bit,since you are a fan of this system I thought you would agree too, "let capitalistic process of failure run its course"


"The rebound continues to wow officials, including International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde, who recently referred to the Icelandic recovery as “impressive”. And experts continue to reiterate that European officials should look to Iceland for lessons regarding austerity measures and similar issues."

Nobbynumbnuts
10-02-2015, 12:34
We are talking about governments bailing out financial institutions ,this wasn't the case in Iceland. "Letting banks go to the wall " is the reason why Iceland is doing okay today.
3 Icelandic banks crashed,failed ended up in a pile of rubble, creditors and hedge funds are still owed billions even to this day.....


If you don't believe me,here's what top economists had to say,

Krugman also says:

A funny thing happened on the way to economic Armageddon: Iceland’s very desperation made conventional behavior impossible, freeing the nation to break the rules. Where everyone else bailed out the bankers and made the public pay the price, Iceland let the banks go bust and actually expanded its social safety net. Where everyone else was fixated on trying to placate international investors, Iceland imposed temporary controls on the movement of capital to give itself room to maneuver.


Barry Ritholtz noted last year:

"Rather than bailout the banks — Iceland could not have done so even if they wanted to — they guaranteed deposits (the way our FDIC does), and let the normal capitalistic process of failure run its course.
They are now much much better for it than the countries like the US and Ireland who did not."

I totally agree with this bit,since you are a fan of this system I thought you would agree too, "let capitalistic process of failure run its course"


"The rebound continues to wow officials, including International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde, who recently referred to the Icelandic recovery as “impressive”. And experts continue to reiterate that European officials should look to Iceland for lessons regarding austerity measures and similar issues."

Judge, the banks went down in name only. Those that lost money are those creditors from subsidiaries of the banks, foreign nationals. Particularly Holland and the UK. Icelanders got their money back..........hence the country was able to recover. That means the government took over the banks responsibilities and paid it's domestic creditors for them, by setting up domestic versions of the banks and putting all domestic assets in them. T'was a government bailout. The foreign subsidiaries of the banks were allowed to fail completely for obvious reasons.
Allowing the banks to 'go to the wall' allowing the capitalistic process to run it's full course is not an option when it comes to banks.
Capitalism is not perfect, no one said it was, certainly not me.

I have no love for bankers, prosecutions should be brought against them where proven, just like anyone else but Iceland's convicted bankers got a maximum of 2 years (1 case) most got 6 to 9 months! ;)

Judge
10-02-2015, 12:52
Judge, the banks went down in name only. Those that lost money are those creditors from subsidiaries of the banks, foreign nationals. Particularly Holland and the UK. Icelanders got their money back..........hence the country was able to recover. That means the government took over the banks responsibilities and paid it's domestic creditors for them, by setting up domestic versions of the banks and putting all domestic assets in them. T'was a government bailout. The foreign subsidiaries of the banks were allowed to fail completely for obvious reasons.
Allowing the banks to 'go to the wall' allowing the capitalistic process to run it's full course is not an option when it comes to banks.
Capitalism is not perfect, no one said it was, certainly not me.

I have no love for bankers, prosecutions should be brought against them where proven, just like anyone else but Iceland's convicted bankers got a maximum of 2 years (1 case) most got 6 to 9 months! ;)


That's a nice way of putting it "down in name only" ,tell that to the ones who are owed billions,
the government started writing off 24000 euros debt of its citizens last year,annoying for some..The UK and the Dutch governments also want paying, they helped out their citizens who had savings when the banks failed.
Iceland was able to do this cos they control their own currency and aren't part of a union.;)

Nobbynumbnuts
10-02-2015, 12:59
That's a nice way of putting it "down in name only" ,tell that to the ones who are owed billions,
the government started writing off 24000 euros debt of its citizens last year,annoying for some..The UK and the Dutch governments also want paying, they helped out their citizens who had savings when the banks failed.
Iceland was able to do this cos they control their own currency and aren't part of a union.;)

The ones who are owed billions are not Icelanders. They weren't bailed out out because it had no benefit for Iceland to do so.

If Iceland HAD been part of a monetary union and had given up the role of it's central bank to the ECB the crisis would have been much less severe. The future of the Eurozone? ;)

Judge
10-02-2015, 13:06
The ones who are owed billions are not Icelanders. They weren't bailed out out because it had no benefit for Iceland to do so.

If Iceland HAD been part of a monetary union and had given up the role of it's central bank to the ECB the crisis would have been much less severe. The future of the Eurozone? ;)
Less severe, they are doing okay now,look at Greece and other EU countries.Iceland were and still being praised for the way they handled their crisis,the worse is behind them,look at unemployment compared to Greece.
Is it a good thing to give so much power to the ECB?
Let's see how the ECB handles the up and coming crisis..that's if we have a Grexit.

Nobbynumbnuts
10-02-2015, 13:15
Less severe, they are doing okay now,look at Greece and other EU countries.
Is it a good thing to give so much power to the ECB?
Let's see how the ECB handles the up and coming crisis..that's if we have a Grexit.

The Icelanders are northern Europeans and the Greeks are southern Europeans. Need i say more? ;)

England used to be many countries, we made the transition to one with one central bank. Europe must continue in the same direction to survive in my opinion.

The ECB's powers are limited to what it can do with single country's crisis because it doesn't control that country's fiscal policy

Judge
10-02-2015, 13:59
Here's another banking shit storm brewing..
http://gu.com/p/45k2q

Too big to go to the wall, that's the reason why they get away with what they do..

Nobbynumbnuts
10-02-2015, 14:37
Here's another banking shit storm brewing..
http://gu.com/p/45k2q

Too big to go to the wall, that's the reason why they get away with what they do..

The regulators need to go after the individuals in the bank who broke the law but why should innocent depositors be dragged into it? They need to be protected from the few..

bydand
10-02-2015, 17:22
Here's another banking shit storm brewing..
http://gu.com/p/45k2q

Too big to go to the wall, that's the reason why they get away with what they do..

Makes me wonder how many politicians hid money there.

Uncle Wally
11-02-2015, 10:50
Here's another banking shit storm brewing..
http://gu.com/p/45k2q

Too big to go to the wall, that's the reason why they get away with what they do..



And this has nothing to do with the Swiss dropping the euro peg.

Judge
13-02-2015, 22:29
The Icelanders are northern Europeans and the Greeks are southern Europeans. Need i say more? ;)


You would think the Germans with all the years sunning it up in Greece and around the Med,they would know a thing or two about the Med way of life.....


The regulators need to go after the individuals in the bank who broke the law but why should innocent depositors be dragged into it? They need to be protected from the few..

Innocent depositors:D

No one should get done, let them all off, the bankers , politicians......it's just the global elite looking after one another. ...
Most probably HSBC will get another slap on the wrist,they were fined $2 bn in the US few years ago for running money for Mexican drug barons.....they could have lost their US banking licence ,let's see if they face criminal charges and their banking licence taken away....

Judge
13-02-2015, 22:45
And this has nothing to do with the Swiss dropping the euro peg.

This info was known in 2008,now everyone is all over it.....from a UK point, it's a fairly big scandal.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31433674

UK Tory government in the thick of it all,

A string of Tory donors, an MP, and even a former party Treasurer legally had links with bank accounts at the bank mired in Swiss tax-dodging allegations, it was claimed today.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tory-donors-and-treasurer-are-linked-to-hsbc-bank-accounts-in-switzerland-10038324.html

Uncle Wally
13-02-2015, 22:50
This info was known in 2008,now everyone is over it.....from a UK point, it's a fairly big scandal.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31433674



I just wondered why they brought it up again. Seems like retaliation because all the big banks get sued all the time and they don't make such a big deal of it.

Big banks calculate how much in fines they'll have to pay and if it's less than what they make off the crime they go for it.

Judge
13-02-2015, 23:14
I just wondered why they brought it up again. Seems like retaliation because all the big banks get sued all the time and they don't make such a big deal of it.

Big banks calculate how much in fines they'll have to pay and if it's less than what they make off the crime they go for it.

Some truth in that,worth the risk they might as well cos they know all they will get is a fine or few months locked up....Imagine if they take away HSBC's banking licence,send a real message to the banking world....

Judge
14-02-2015, 00:06
Wally, you mentioned the Swiss and pegs,keep an eye on the Danes,the banks are going the same way as the Swiss, they are now charging customers to save with them.:coffee:
They are also pegged to the euro.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/12/news/economy/danish-bank-charges-savers-interest/

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 00:23
.......Big banks calculate how much in fines they'll have to pay and if it's less than what they make off the crime they go for it.

..i'm surprised the board of inquiry hasn't called you in to give evidence :D

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 00:26
Wally, you mentioned the Swiss and pegs,keep an eye on the Danes,the banks are going the same way as the Swiss, they are now charging customers to save with them.:coffee:
They are also pegged to the euro.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/12/news/economy/danish-bank-charges-savers-interest/



Yeah I heard that.

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 00:31
.....Innocent depositors:D

No one should get done, let them all off, the bankers , politicians......it's just the global elite looking after one another. ...
Most probably HSBC will get another slap on the wrist,they were fined $2 bn in the US few years ago for running money for Mexican drug barons.....they could have lost their US banking licence ,let's see if they face criminal charges and their banking licence taken away....

Not everyone who has a bank account is a criminal. If someone is using an offshore account to evade tax then they should be prosecuted. If the bank is guilty (as HSBC seem to be) then they need to be punished as well-but depositors who are not wrong doers shouldn't be punished.
I would have thought that was obvious...

..and $2b is hardly a slap on the wrist..

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 00:41
Not everyone who has a bank account is a criminal. If someone is using an offshore account to evade tax then they should be prosecuted. If the bank is guilty (as HSBC seem to be) then they need to be punished as well-but depositors who are not wrong doers shouldn't be punished.
I would have thought that was obvious...

..and $2b is hardly a slap on the wrist..



It is if they made $10b

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 00:46
It is if they made $10b

20% of annual profits is not a slap on the wrist.

A couple of days ban for posting while intoxicated is a slap on the wrist! ;)

Judge
14-02-2015, 00:59
Not everyone who has a bank account is a criminal. If someone is using an offshore account to evade tax then they should be prosecuted. If the bank is guilty (as HSBC seem to be) then they need to be punished as well-but depositors who are not wrong doers shouldn't be punished.
I would have thought that was obvious...


Of course not everyone,but if you have been following this scandal you would know that some of the depositors knew what was going on,that's the reason why they were using these banks.


..and $2b is hardly a slap on the wrist

A slap even sounds too harsh after seeing how much they make,

2011 totalled $22 billion,


On 4 March 2013 HSBC announced profits of $20.6 billion in 2012 while it paid out a $3 million bonus to its CEO.

when you for time read about it,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/money-laundering-and-the-drug-trade-the-role-of-the-banks/5334205

It was going on for a number of years. ..

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 01:13
Of course not everyone,but if you have been following this scandal you would know that some of the depositors knew what was going on,that's the reason why they were using these banks.



A slap even sounds too harsh after seeing how much they make,

2011 totalled $22 billion,


On 4 March 2013 HSBC announced profits of $20.6 billion in 2012 while it paid out a $3 million bonus to its CEO.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/money-laundering-and-the-drug-trade-the-role-of-the-banks/5334205


It was going on for a number of years. ..

Again, not everyone who had an account was/is a criminal. What you think they know is irrelevant-it's what they have done. If found to have broken the law, then they must be punished.

Banks need to regulate themselves better and i'm sure that will be the outcome. Huge fines and a damaged reputation is not good for business.

Judge
14-02-2015, 01:56
Again, not everyone who had an account was/is a criminal. What you think they know is irrelevant-it's what they have done. If found to have broken the law, then they must be punished.

Banks need to regulate themselves better and i'm sure that will be the outcome. Huge fines and a damaged reputation is not good for business.

Excellent idea,of course they should regulate themselves, :fridaysign:

This HSBC scandal is even causing a stir across the pond,looks like Obama 's nominee for attorney general is the one who let HSBC off with that small fine instead of really going after the bank..

The plot thickens,

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/13/republicans-loretta-lynch-hsbc-revelations

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 02:03
Excellent idea,of course they should regulate themselves, :fridaysign:

This HSBC scandal is even causing a stir across the pond,looks like Obama 's nominee for attorney general is the one who let HSBC off with that small fine instead of really going after the bank..

The plot thickens,

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/13/republicans-loretta-lynch-hsbc-revelations

The reason i said the banks should regulate themselves is because there was a debate about why governments don't regulate the banks as they do with many other industries. The argument goes that banks will simply move to areas where regulation is less strict. Which for the city of London for example would be disastrous...

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 02:39
20% of annual profits is not a slap on the wrist.

A couple of days ban for posting while intoxicated is a slap on the wrist! ;)


For $8 billion, slap away!

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 02:43
The reason i said the banks should regulate themselves is because there was a debate about why governments don't regulate the banks as they do with many other industries. The argument goes that banks will simply move to areas where regulation is less strict. Which for the city of London for example would be disastrous...



Now ask us if we care about the city of London.

Judge
14-02-2015, 09:43
Now ask us if we care about the city of London.

I can see where Nobby is coming from, City of London does bring in lots of money for the UK,loads of business, jobs...London wants to keep its title as the financial capital of the world, or is that New York,anyway, other cities would love to dethrone London.

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 11:05
I can see where Nobby is coming from, City of London does bring in lots of money for the UK,loads of business, jobs...London wants to keep its title as the financial capital of the world, or is that New York,anyway, other cities would love to dethrone London.



My monkey could care less about London. I tend to agree with him on most things.

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 11:42
My monkey could care less about London. I tend to agree with him on most things.

Right, you don't come across as a very caring person. Should have been a banker, perhaps....;)

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 11:48
I can see where Nobby is coming from, City of London does bring in lots of money for the UK,loads of business, jobs...London wants to keep its title as the financial capital of the world, or is that New York,anyway, other cities would love to dethrone London.

Not just city of London though. Regulation effects all finical centers. London is the 3rd largest financial centre after New York and Tokyo and ahead of Frankfurt, which is it's biggest competitor.

Uncle Wally
15-02-2015, 11:42
Right, you don't come across as a very caring person. Should have been a banker, perhaps....;)



Yes we should all feel so sorry for the poor miss understood bankers and Wall Street brokers. They do such great things for humanity like manipulate rates, commodities and currency and create massive bubbles to help us all live better lives. Where would be without investors to drive up housing prices and rents?


Bankers are people too!

Screw the whales, save the bankers!


What we need is more disposable products that wear out faster so we can all have jobs to buy more disposable products! Now that's a life worth living!

Nobbynumbnuts
15-02-2015, 14:33
......Screw the whales, save the bankers..................


........not forgetting the dumb pensioners, of course! :p

Uncle Wally
15-02-2015, 14:59
........not forgetting the dumb pensioners, of course! :p



It's not nice to call people dumb young or old.


You should look up the word sarcasm too.

Nobbynumbnuts
15-02-2015, 15:44
It's not nice to call people dumb young or old...............

.....even poor pensioners who are too stupid rent out their apartments? :D

Judge
15-02-2015, 18:58
Here's a good read about HSBC's dirty dealings,$2 bn is like 2 rubles for them,


The bank was fined more than Wachovia, a record $1.9bn. But this was less than five weeks’ income for HSBC’s American subsidiary. 


HSBC was caught, for handling a staggering $376bn of suspect money for an American bank ,Wachovia.

I'm sure you'll agree with this bit Wally,

 “The only thing that will get the message to the banks and start to solve the problem is the rattle of handcuffs in the boardroom.”


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/15/hsbc-has-form-mexico-laundered-drug-money

And not to be missed,


Stephen Green, the chief executive of the bank throughout its service to Chapo Guzman’s cartel, was appointed to the British government

Judge
10-03-2015, 23:33
The Greeks trying to blackmail their way out of the crisis,


Greece's defense minister threatened to “flood Europe with migrants,” including potential members of the so-called Islamic State, unless Athens receives debt crisis support.



If the eurozone allowed Greece to go bust, Greece would grant EU travel papers to illegal immigrants crossing its borders or to the 10,000 currently held in detention centers, Kammenos warned.

"If they deal a blow to Greece, then they should know the migrants will get papers to go to Berlin,” he said.

"If Europe leaves us in the crisis, we will flood it with migrants, and it will be even worse for Berlin if in that wave of millions of economic migrants there will be some jihadists of the Islamic State too.”



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11459675/Greeces-defence-minister-threatens-to-send-migrants-including-jihadists-to-Western-Europe.html

a threat like that will see the Greeks not only kicked out of the eurozone but also the EU.

fenrir
10-03-2015, 23:49
The Greeks trying to blackmail their way out of the crisis,






http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11459675/Greeces-defence-minister-threatens-to-send-migrants-including-jihadists-to-Western-Europe.html

a threat like that will see the Greeks not only kicked out of the eurozone but also the EU.

You can guess there would be an immediate reimposition of border controls with Greece and those papers would most likely be declared invalid.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-03-2015, 11:32
The Greeks trying to blackmail their way out of the crisis,






http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11459675/Greeces-defence-minister-threatens-to-send-migrants-including-jihadists-to-Western-Europe.html

a threat like that will see the Greeks not only kicked out of the eurozone but also the EU.

Very desperate times in Greece. The defense minister must be feeling very frustrated. Greece has a history of military coups..

Judge
12-03-2015, 08:28
Very desperate times in Greece. The defense minister must be feeling very frustrated. Greece has a history of military coups..
Desperate times call for desperate measures,


Greece threatens to seize German property as compensation,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31831694

Judge
12-03-2015, 08:29
You can guess there would be an immediate reimposition of border controls with Greece and those papers would most likely be declared invalid.


The borders can be manned by the EU army:fudd:

Nobbynumbnuts
12-03-2015, 11:02
Desperate times call for desperate measures,


Greece threatens to seize German property as compensation,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31831694

Sad though the situation is in Greece, you've got to laugh....
What they're considering is completely illegal. Repatriations to Greece were settled years ago. If they weren't, why did Greece sign them off as if they were?

No wonder Greece is in the sh*t! ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
12-03-2015, 11:04
The Greeks trying to blackmail their way out of the crisis,






http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11459675/Greeces-defence-minister-threatens-to-send-migrants-including-jihadists-to-Western-Europe.html

a threat like that will see the Greeks not only kicked out of the eurozone but also the EU.

It ain't going to happen, just rhetoric...

Uncle Wally
14-03-2015, 00:13
It ain't going to happen, just rhetoric...



Yeah because the EU will cave in and get them what they need because the EU has more to lose.

Judge
17-03-2015, 22:21
The Greek leader is looking for new friends,

Greek PM brings forward Russia Putin trip


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31919441