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Russian Lad
14-02-2015, 00:35
people who rent their apartments and travel the world

I also know people who have billions of dollars. I see them on TV every day, that's how we met, they were on and I was watching.
But speaking about the Russians who rent their apartments - first, the rent in rubles will surely be going down (it has already gone done for the elite apartments, I have friends in this biz - some premises have seen a 30-50% decrease, at least here in SPb), and second, the ruble has devalued drastically and their hard currencies income has effectively halved (not many foreign resorts accept rubles...).

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 00:46
I also know people who have billions of dollars. I see them on TV every day, that's how we met, they were on and I was watching.
But speaking about the Russians who rent their apartments - first, the rent in rubles will surely be going down (it has already gone done for the elite apartments, I have friends in this biz - some premises have seen a 30-50% decrease, at least here in SPb), and second, the ruble has devalued drastically and their hard currencies income has effectively halved (not many foreign resorts accept rubles...).



Yes I was thinking about that too but since they are out of the country now I'll have to wait until they get back. Here in Moscow I haven't seen rents go up or down but I could see the more expensive rents coming down first. That could help the lower rents stay stable because of people moving down.

Russian Lad
14-02-2015, 04:10
That could help the lower rents stay stable

There will be nothing stable there soon. One of the reasons - migrants, including hundreds of thousands (millions?) from the construction sector, are leaving. Something I do like about the crisis - the less people, the less problems, nothing personal. I remember the days when I could rent an apartment in Saint Pete for 100 dollars per month, back in 1999. Right now, let's see, it is around 350 dollars, used to be 700 dollars just half a year ago. It will keep going down like a rock from now on. Travel the world on that, my arse.:) How about travel around your ghetto from now on?:) By foot, the trams are too expensive.:)

Armoured
14-02-2015, 07:18
Here in Moscow I haven't seen rents go up or down but I could see the more expensive rents coming down first.

Rents in Moscow are down - period. Full stop. No question. I have a few friends who cannot rent their flats, as no demand. On the other hand, I know lots of people who have just plain renegotiated - landlords are taking it because they know the situation is bad.

So if you haven't seen prices go up or down, it's because you don't know.


That could help the lower rents stay stable because of people moving down.

What wonderfully perverse thinking. Is this direct from the State Institute of Anti-Crisis Logic?

"Demand for products for people without money is expected to go up, as there will be more people without money."

A friend quipped that this is like reacting to both your legs being amputated, saying "Well, I'll sure have the opportunity to improve my wheelchair tricks!"

Optimism's a good thing, but this is delusional.

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 09:23
Rents in Moscow are down - period. Full stop. No question. I have a few friends who cannot rent their flats, as no demand. On the other hand, I know lots of people who have just plain renegotiated - landlords are taking it because they know the situation is bad.

So if you haven't seen prices go up or down, it's because you don't know.



What wonderfully perverse thinking. Is this direct from the State Institute of Anti-Crisis Logic?

"Demand for products for people without money is expected to go up, as there will be more people without money."

A friend quipped that this is like reacting to both your legs being amputated, saying "Well, I'll sure have the opportunity to improve my wheelchair tricks!"

Optimism's a good thing, but this is delusional.




My rent hasn't changed. Don't know anybody who's rent has.

How should someone react to having both legs amputated?

Judge
14-02-2015, 09:29
My rent hasn't changed. Don't know anybody who's rent has.


Read that office space and retail rental is down, maybe flat rent will follow soon. Got a mate who is in the flat rental business, will ask him...

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 09:31
Read that office space and retail rental is down, maybe flat rent will follow soon. Got a mate who is in the flat rental business, will ask him...



Good I always thought rents were too high.

Armoured
14-02-2015, 10:13
My rent hasn't changed. Don't know anybody who's rent has.

If you have not been on the market, you probably wouldn't see.

But if you want to renegotiate your rent (down), now would be the time to look into it.

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 11:01
If you have not been on the market, you probably wouldn't see.

But if you want to renegotiate your rent (down), now would be the time to look into it.



No I like my landlord so I haven't said anything and probably won't. They are very nice people.

Russian Lad
14-02-2015, 16:42
I haven't said anything and probably won't. They are very nice people.

If you pay the rent in rubles the amount they get for this in dollars is down by 100%. Since the landlords are nice people and you want them to "travel the world", have you compensated this dire loss in their income?

Fantastika
14-02-2015, 19:28
In Samara, the 2-bedroom apartment or flat sells at lowest for 3,000,000. Sell it, put the money in a bank at 10% interest, get 300,000 rubles a year without touching the principal, or 25,000 rubles/month. Rent an apartment for 12,000 rubles, that leaves 13,000 rubles a month for bills and fun. And you still have the 3 million in the bank. (Source: Iz-ruk-v-ruki)

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2015, 21:27
......put the money in a bank at 10% interest, get 300,000 rubles a year without touching the principal, or 25,000 rubles/month...........(Source: Iz-ruk-v-ruki)

..but if inflation is running at an annual rate of 10% you're going to end up poor quite quickly ;)

Russian Lad
14-02-2015, 21:55
In Samara, the 2-bedroom apartment or flat sells at lowest for 3,000,000. Sell it, put the money in a bank at 10% interest, get 300,000 rubles a year without touching the principal, or 25,000 rubles/month. Rent an apartment for 12,000 rubles, that leaves 13,000 rubles a month for bills and fun. And you still have the 3 million in the bank. (Source: Iz-ruk-v-ruki)

Not sure at what point you got it into your head that every Russian is born with a 2-bedroom apartment against his name on the birth log books... With two 2-bedroom apartments actually, since there has to be another one to live in after the first one is sold.

Uncle Wally
14-02-2015, 23:11
If you pay the rent in rubles the amount they get for this in dollars is down by 100%. Since the landlords are nice people and you want them to "travel the world", have you compensated this dire loss in their income?



I pay in rubles. They think in rubles.

Tzushima
15-02-2015, 05:21
..but if inflation is running at an annual rate of 10% you're going to end up poor quite quickly ;)
mathmatical details like this are beyond Fantastika's grasp apparently.

Uncle Wally
15-02-2015, 11:02
Not sure at what point you got it into your head that every Russian is born with a 2-bedroom apartment against his name on the birth log books... With two 2-bedroom apartments actually, since there has to be another one to live in after the first one is sold.


What I found is that people are inheriting flats of their babushka and renting them out. At least the people who have families that have lived in Moscow for generations. I know of at least two people who will inherit 3 and 4 flats because they're last one left in the family, getting babushka's flat, their aunt's flats. One girl I know has an aunt with two flats and her mother has two flats and no other relatives.

Russian Lad
15-02-2015, 17:36
What I found is that people are inheriting flats of their babushka and renting them out. At least the people who have families that have lived in Moscow for generations. I know of at least two people who will inherit 3 and 4 flats because they're last one left in the family, getting babushka's flat, their aunt's flats. One girl I know has an aunt with two flats and her mother has two flats and no other relatives.

Wow, some people inherit apartments, a fantastic discovery. Is it any different in Nigeria?
According to various polls, the number of moscovites who were born in Moscow, whose parents and grandparents were born in Moscow as well, doesn't exceed 30%, some observers put this number at 20% and below. Need links? And mind it, not all grandparents have kosher dwellings, thousands grew up in kommunalkas.
If you take my case, I wasn't even born in Saint Pete, my father came here and got an apartment here in the eighties. My babushka's flimsy house in a village region of Tatarstan was sold for pennies a long time ago.

Fantastika
15-02-2015, 19:00
Not sure at what point you got it into your head that every Russian is born with a 2-bedroom apartment against his name on the birth log books... With two 2-bedroom apartments actually, since there has to be another one to live in after the first one is sold.

Wow, some people inherit apartments, a fantastic discovery. Is it any different in Nigeria?


Well, since the parents have 1 child in Russia, the parents have 3 children in Nigeria, soon there will be more apartments than people in Russia.

Fantastika
15-02-2015, 19:07
...Fantastika....

Tzushima and PJB conduct experiments prior to getting into the orbital launch business to re-supply the International Space Station.

http://www.fairbrothers.com/expatphotos/tumblr_cat.jpg

At the Baikonur Cosmodrome, they are getting worried about the potential competition. :)

Russian Lad
15-02-2015, 19:09
Well, since the parents have 1 child in Russia, the parents have 3 children in Nigeria

Ok, Nigeria wins, you sound convincing.

Judge
16-02-2015, 09:29
Good to see Kudrin back in Putin's inner circle,



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ex-finance-minister-kudrin-steps-into-spotlight-as-russia-s-crisis-grows/515947.html



"Kudrin is now the great last hope for investors and the Russia story," Timothy Ash, an emerging markets analyst at Standard Bank, wrote in a note to investors last month.

"The 'hope' is that Putin sees the errors of his ways, fires Prime Minister Medvedev, and brings back Kudrin leading a new reform administration in Moscow."

Tzushima
16-02-2015, 10:15
i am dumb
yeah, we know dude, WE GET IT

Fantastika
16-02-2015, 14:32
i am dumb

yeah, we know dude, WE GET IT

I did not post: "i am dumb."

MODERATOR. Please delete or suspend this user. I DID NOT say what she quoted me as posting. This breaks the rules of any forum, doesn't it?

She may have her reality challenged and think it is "good writing" to create a quote I never said, as she imagines Sarah Palin really said something that Tina Fey said, but editing someone else's quotes or creating them out of whole cloth crosses the ethical line in a forum.

FatAndy
16-02-2015, 16:06
Yes, we do it!!! :D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2954933/Can-Russia-control-weather-Climate-researcher-says-CIA-fears-hostile-nations-triggering-floods-droughts.html

Russian Lad
17-02-2015, 01:52
A song for the Russian speakers (related to the subject of the thread):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DfFAlRmIBU

Uncle Wally
17-02-2015, 06:36
Wow, some people inherit apartments, a fantastic discovery. Is it any different in Nigeria?
According to various polls, the number of moscovites who were born in Moscow, whose parents and grandparents were born in Moscow as well, doesn't exceed 30%, some observers put this number at 20% and below. Need links? And mind it, not all grandparents have kosher dwellings, thousands grew up in kommunalkas.
If you take my case, I wasn't even born in Saint Pete, my father came here and got an apartment here in the eighties. My babushka's flimsy house in a village region of Tatarstan was sold for pennies a long time ago.



Maybe you should have tried a different occupation then. People I know are buying their own apartments.

Tzushima
17-02-2015, 09:48
i am dumb


I did not post: "i am dumb."

MODERATOR. Please delete or suspend this user. I DID NOT say what she quoted me as posting. This breaks the rules of any forum, doesn't it?

She may have her reality challenged and think it is "good writing" to create a quote I never said, as she imagines Sarah Palin really said something that Tina Fey said, but editing someone else's quotes or creating them out of whole cloth crosses the ethical line in a forum.

you said it, just not in so many words:10293:

Russian Lad
17-02-2015, 10:25
Maybe you should have tried a different occupation then. People I know are buying their own apartments.

We have been through this already. The problem is not my occupation. Besides, I am not sure how what I said is related in any logical way to what you answered, unless we begin viewing the ability to inherit an apartment as an occupation. Go drink some vodka, life is a success for you.

Uncle Wally
17-02-2015, 12:00
We have been through this already. The problem is not my occupation. Besides, I am not sure how what I said is related in any logical way to what you answered, unless we begin viewing the ability to inherit an apartment as an occupation. Go drink some vodka, life is a success for you.


I was just saying some people don't need an occupation and if you want to whine about things maybe you picked the wrong one. I know two translators one lives off his wife the other works for a gas company but I wouldn't say he's well off.

Tzushima
17-02-2015, 12:03
I was just saying some people don't need an occupation

tell us more about these people

Nobbynumbnuts
17-02-2015, 12:17
I don't want to have kids to be a burden to them in old age. ;)

Uncle Wally
17-02-2015, 12:17
tell us more about these people



I did already. They have flats in Moscow sometimes more than one. If you have one in the center you rent it out and live in India or something.

Tzushima
17-02-2015, 12:21
I did already. They have flats in Moscow sometimes more than one. If you have one in the center you rent it out and live in India or something.

with this kind of character development, you should be published

Russian Lad
17-02-2015, 12:38
with this kind of character development, you should be published

Just a common alco. Most likely uneducated. What is your education, Wally? What university did you graduate from to imagine you can teach life people like me? I just want to make sure you are at least my equal, not some random riff-raff jetsam from the US. Nothing personal, just business, buddy.

Uncle Wally
17-02-2015, 12:55
Just a common alco. Most likely uneducated. What is your education, Wally? What university did you graduate from to imagine you can teach life people like me? I just want to make sure you are at least my equal, not some random riff-raff jetsam from the US. Nothing personal, just business, buddy.



It's teach life "to" people like me. Teach life people like me is wrong.

Russian Lad
17-02-2015, 12:57
It's teach life "to" people like me. Teach life people like me is wrong.


Both forms are ok. Don't digress, answer the question.

Uncle Wally
17-02-2015, 13:04
Both forms are ok. Don't digress, answer the question.



Oh no they're not! How many objects are in that sentence?

Tzushima
17-02-2015, 13:07
Oh no they're not! How many objects are in that sentence?

I love how when you don't want to answer his question you become a grammar troll.

I will now start counting how often you Wally, confuse "your" and "you're"

lol

AstarD
17-02-2015, 13:08
It's teach life "to" people like me. Teach life people like me is wrong.You don't always need the "to", though. But it is in the wrong word order for not needing the "to".

Without the to, it should be:
"What university did you graduate from to imagine you can teach people like me life?"

Uncle Wally
17-02-2015, 13:18
You don't always need the "to", though. But it is in the wrong word order for not needing the "to".

Without the to, it should be:
"What university did you graduate from to imagine you can teach people like me life?"



Yes you can say it both ways.

Uncle Wally
17-02-2015, 13:27
I love how when you don't want to answer his question you become a grammar troll.

I will now start counting how often you Wally, confuse "your" and "you're"

lol



Yes I do do that but I don't say I'm a language expert. I know enough to tell when he's wrong.

He knows what I did for a living, I've written about it and people here have seen me perform. He's just jealous my imagination and creativity was worth more than his university degree.

Russian Lad
17-02-2015, 13:42
He's just jealous my imagination and creativity was worth more than his university degree.

My degree is worthless moneywise in this country. It is a country of crooks, not degrees. Maybe that's why you are here and love it. However, I still have time to diversify my efforts, something I am doing as we speak. Not everything is measured in money and in apartments though, at least in my book.

Tzushima
17-02-2015, 14:04
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/foreign-debt-burden-lies-at-heart-of-russia-s-economic-worries/516033.html

"Even in the fourth quarter, after Western sanctions were tightened, the size of net redemptions was only around half of debts falling due.

That suggests that many "foreign" debts are really debts to fellow Russians operating from offshore.

"Some part of the debt, around 40-50 percent, was related to recycling of Russian capital: money originally flowing away from Russia and then coming back as loans," said Alfa Bank economist Natalia Orlova."

AstarD
17-02-2015, 15:17
the ethical line in a forum.We have an ethical line?

FatAndy
17-02-2015, 15:43
Fantastika, Tzushima, pls chill a bit.

FatAndy
17-02-2015, 16:57
Our two nice ladies, Fantastika and Tzushima, leave our sandbox for a day, for trolling/$h!t dropping, after a warning given earlier. After the short break, we're awaiting them here back, with clear souls, he-he...

tonytony
18-02-2015, 12:37
Not all Russians do that. The Federal State Statistics Service, Rosstat, certainly does a bit more than that.

In January, overall inflation was at 15% and food inflation was 20.7% year on year. The cost of fruit and vegetables has increased by 40.7% in a year. But booze hasn't done so badly as alcohol is only up by 14%.

Also, just from December to January prices have risen by 3.9% in just one month.

http://www.gks.ru/bgd/free/b04_03/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d05/22.htm

Unless there are comparable wage rises then a lot of people in Russia are going to be tightening their belts this year and there will be a lot less discretionary spending.



I didn't realise that the Moscow Times had its own youtube channel, but apparently it does. I found out courtesy of this blog that I subscribe to:-

https://russianreport.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/how-are-russians-coping-with-inflation/


Looks like some locals are coping with inflation a lot better than others:-

Bnhmg82x6fo

Uncle Wally
18-02-2015, 15:31
Our two nice ladies, Fantastika and Tzushima, leave our sandbox for a day, for trolling/$h!t dropping, after a warning given earlier. After the short break, we're awaiting them here back, with clear souls, he-he...



Yeah and when little mama sun Tzushima gets back we'll get all 50 shades of gray on her tzush if she tries that snit again!


Sorry I started a little early today because of the new year! Chinese new year dummies.

FatAndy
18-02-2015, 18:11
Our two nice ladies, Fantastika and Tzushima, leave our sandbox for a day, for trolling/$h!t dropping, after a warning given earlier. After the short break, we're awaiting them here back, with clear souls, he-he...
Ban is lifted, although some time the marker of "in the sin bin" will remain...

fenrir
18-02-2015, 21:14
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/one-third-of-russians-expect-firings-wage-cuts/516183.html

And the knock-on effect of this will be catastrophic: less tax money to the government and less money to be spent in shops. And Wally, spare us your 'I know two guys who got raises recently, so this can't be true' nonsense.

Russian Lad
18-02-2015, 21:47
It is not true! You are lying! Stop whining! I know a guy who has a friend whose sister's boyfriend got a 100 rubles raise! Restaurants are full of laughing people!

FatAndy
18-02-2015, 22:07
It is not true! You are lying! Stop whining! I know a guy who has a friend whose sister's boyfriend got a 100 rubles raise! Restaurants are full of laughing people!
Put it into your signature ;)

Uncle Wally
18-02-2015, 22:16
It is not true! You are lying! Stop whining! I know a guy who has a friend whose sister's boyfriend got a 100 rubles raise! Restaurants are full of laughing people!



You're bordering on insanity. I am starting to question your mental fitness.

FatAndy
18-02-2015, 22:20
And the knock-on effect of this will be catastrophic: less tax money to the government and less money to be spent in shops.
Sure. The thermal death of Universe is closer and closer. :rasta:

Uncle Wally
18-02-2015, 22:31
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/one-third-of-russians-expect-firings-wage-cuts/516183.html

And the knock-on effect of this will be catastrophic: less tax money to the government and less money to be spent in shops. And Wally, spare us your 'I know two guys who got raises recently, so this can't be true' nonsense.



I don't know anybody who got a raise. I just marvel at your perverse kind of joy at the potential suffering of Russians. Are you equally joyous at the death of millions of Iraqis and the suffering that still goes on to this day? I know you are over joyed with the death and destruction in Syria because Assad is such bad man, you know this because you heard it on the news. Anyway thank you for your reports on how Russia is and will suffer from Estonia because without you we would never know how bad we have it here.

Russian Lad
18-02-2015, 22:54
I am starting to question your mental fitness.

After how many glasses of vodka? :watching:


potential suffering of Russians

It is not potential, it is real. By the way, a relevant song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA9ATcCPM9Y

fenrir
18-02-2015, 23:11
I don't know anybody who got a raise. I just marvel at your perverse kind of joy at the potential suffering of Russians. Are you equally joyous at the death of millions of Iraqis and the suffering that still goes on to this day? I know you are over joyed with the death and destruction in Syria because Assad is such bad man, you know this because you heard it on the news. Anyway thank you for your reports on how Russia is and will suffer from Estonia because without you we would never know how bad we have it here.

What do Syria, Iraq and Estonia have to do with the fact that Russia has F--KED itself up the --- economically? I don't take any pleasure in the suffering of regular Russians. My wife is Russian and I have many Russian friends and former colleagues. However, I do take LOTS of pleasure in seeing the lies of Russian nationalists and apologists (YOU) being crushed by reality. Do you remember how you said prices WEREN'T rising and how everything was fine? Now reality is biting everyone in the ---. Unfortunately, the innocent have to pay for the actions and BS of the guilty. But you support all that, so enjoy.

Btw, your death toll in Iraq is wildly inaccurate, another one of your wildly exaggerated claims.

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 00:27
What do Syria, Iraq and Estonia have to do with the fact that Russia has F--KED itself up the --- economically? I don't take any pleasure in the suffering of regular Russians. My wife is Russian and I have many Russian friends and former colleagues. However, I do take LOTS of pleasure in seeing the lies of Russian nationalists and apologists (YOU) being crushed by reality. Do you remember how you said prices WEREN'T rising and how everything was fine? Now reality is biting everyone in the ---. Unfortunately, the innocent have to pay for the actions and BS of the guilty. But you support all that, so enjoy.

Btw, your death toll in Iraq is wildly inaccurate, another one of your wildly exaggerated claims.



The death of one innocent person is too many.



Sorry to tell you this but I am not being "crushed". I have enough rubles and everything is fine. Just got news that a song I wrote now has over one million downloads that makes two songs now with over a million! I haven't heard any of my friends doing so bad, in fact I hear more about how bad Russia is doing from people who don't even live in Russia, that should tell you something.

I picked up ground beef today for 158 rubles for 800 grams. What's the price in the states? Also I check McDonald's the other day and a Big Mac is selling for 98 rubles. What's that in dollar terms a buck 50? So the price has gone down. Big Mac in the states is $4.50

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 00:31
After how many glasses of vodka? :watching:



It is not potential, it is real. By the way, a relevant song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA9ATcCPM9Y



After no vodka. I'm sick today and did have a few shots and went to sleep for about four hours. After I woke up I posted that.

Alan65
19-02-2015, 02:00
The death of one innocent person is too many.



Sorry to tell you this but I am not being "crushed". I have enough rubles and everything is fine. Just got news that a song I wrote now has over one million downloads that makes two songs now with over a million! I haven't heard any of my friends doing so bad, in fact I hear more about how bad Russia is doing from people who don't even live in Russia, that should tell you something.

I picked up ground beef today for 158 rubles for 800 grams. What's the price in the states? Also I check McDonald's the other day and a Big Mac is selling for 98 rubles. What's that in dollar terms a buck 50? So the price has gone down. Big Mac in the states is $4.50

Give us a link to your songs

Russian Lad
19-02-2015, 02:56
in fact I hear more about how bad Russia is doing from people who don't even live in Russia

So, where do I live in the Wally World?


I picked up ground beef today for 158 rubles for 800 grams. What's the price in the states?

Perhaps you would like to compare the average salary in, say, Orenburg, Russia and, say, Chicago, the US? What is the difference? 1000%? 1500%? Not sure why you fancy it is such a brilliant idea to refuse to notice the steeply rising prices in grocery shops. Even the Russian government is noticing it. Need links? You want to be holier than the holy? You are beyond unreasonable. What is the purpose of your absolutely childish stance?

fenrir
19-02-2015, 09:56
The death of one innocent person is too many.



Sorry to tell you this but I am not being "crushed". I have enough rubles and everything is fine. Just got news that a song I wrote now has over one million downloads that makes two songs now with over a million! I haven't heard any of my friends doing so bad, in fact I hear more about how bad Russia is doing from people who don't even live in Russia, that should tell you something.

I picked up ground beef today for 158 rubles for 800 grams. What's the price in the states? Also I check McDonald's the other day and a Big Mac is selling for 98 rubles. What's that in dollar terms a buck 50? So the price has gone down. Big Mac in the states is $4.50

Tell that to the innocents dying from Russian artillery fire in Eastern Ukraine. Funny how your so-called concern for humanity is so flexible.

The government you worshp so blindly says food prices are rising. Are you accusing Putin, Medvedev and others of lying? Maybe you're suggesting that they are propagating Western propaganda. Naughty, naught. FSB monitors such sites as this and your sudden disloyalty will be noted down in your file.

Btw, the price of a Big Mac in Russia goes down only if the RUBLE price is reduced.

Armoured
19-02-2015, 10:02
"Even in the fourth quarter, after Western sanctions were tightened, the size of net redemptions was only around half of debts falling due.

That suggests that many "foreign" debts are really debts to fellow Russians operating from offshore.

"Some part of the debt, around 40-50 percent, was related to recycling of Russian capital: money originally flowing away from Russia and then coming back as loans," said Alfa Bank economist Natalia Orlova."

You know, I've been hearing this argument for years, and I do recognize that a significant part of the foreign debt is indeed to "Russian" companies or individuals.

But I don't see how that changes much - except to the extent that some of this money is more likely to come back as those "Russians" want to or decide to or have some natural propensity to invest in Russia (even if just because they know Russia better).

Still - if the money is offshore, very often it doesn't need to come back, and if the situation is bad, why would anyone bring it back? And largely that seems to be reflected in the investment figures: plummeting.

[I'd add there are a lot of deeply technical questions that make me wonder whether any of this data can be trusted. For example, a Russian company that does a Eurobond issue generally does it through a special-purpose entity, a company, that is established for the sole purpose of borrowing that money. E.g. "Wallyworld Eurotrasht" in Luxembourg borrows money from Western banks by issuing a bond, sends the money to "Wallyworld Pyramida Holding OOO", which guarantees the debts (bond) of Eurotrasht, then when it comes time to redeem the bond, sends the cash back to Eurtrasht, who sends it to the banks. So (depending on the context, reporting, accounting, etc) this might appear as "inter-company Russian borrowing" even if the reality is still that the money originally came from Western banks - and they are not doing new lending. I honestly don't know the answer to this, but I know enough to be very skeptical that the CBR international borrowing figures and this 'net debt' stuff is accurate]

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 11:50
So, where do I live in the Wally World?



Perhaps you would like to compare the average salary in, say, Orenburg, Russia and, say, Chicago, the US? What is the difference? 1000%? 1500%? Not sure why you fancy it is such a brilliant idea to refuse to notice the steeply rising prices in grocery shops. Even the Russian government is noticing it. Need links? You want to be holier than the holy? You are beyond unreasonable. What is the purpose of your absolutely childish stance?



I think the reason most Russians aren't mad at their government is they understand America is to blame for starting the trouble. Russians are proud of their country and don't want to be told what to do/think by America. Remember the sanctions are there so people become angry at the government and force it to change or overthrown. It's had the opposite effect.

AstarD
19-02-2015, 11:55
I think the reason most Russians aren't mad at their government is they understand America is to blame for starting the trouble. Russians are proud of their country and don't want to be told what to do/think by America. Remember the sanctions are there so people become angry at the government and force it to change or overthrown. It's had the opposite effect.Someone else is always to blame for Russia's problems.

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 12:00
Tell that to the innocents dying from Russian artillery fire in Eastern Ukraine. Funny how your so-called concern for humanity is so flexible.

The government you worshp so blindly says food prices are rising. Are you accusing Putin, Medvedev and others of lying? Maybe you're suggesting that they are propagating Western propaganda. Naughty, naught. FSB monitors such sites as this and your sudden disloyalty will be noted down in your file.

Btw, the price of a Big Mac in Russia goes down only if the RUBLE price is reduced.

Yes but McDonald's is an American company and anyway the price here in dollar terms was always cheaper.

Sorry to tell this but it's been the Ukrainian government which started the bombing at the advice of American politicians. Why after one year no development on the deaths in Kiev? Odessa? The plane that was shot down? Why was there an agreement that any one of the parties involved in the investigation could seal any findings? Could it be that the new government in Kiev shot it down so they could blame it on Russia? Very convenient they gave Kiev the right to close any finding wouldn't you say?

FatAndy
19-02-2015, 12:48
FSB monitors such sites as this and your sudden disloyalty will be noted down in your file.
Incorrect, comrade.
1) FSB monitors all sites.
2) Not in Wally's but your file ;)


Tell that to the innocents dying from Russian artillery fire in Eastern Ukraine. Funny how your so-called concern for humanity is so flexible.
More hell in comments, comrade... :brush:

fenrir
19-02-2015, 13:41
I think the reason most Russians aren't mad at their government is they understand America is to blame for starting the trouble. Russians are proud of their country and don't want to be told what to do/think by America. Remember the sanctions are there so people become angry at the government and force it to change or overthrown. It's had the opposite effect.

You're such a simpleton. The purpose is to drive a wedge between Putin, his allies and the oligarchs as well as the various factions in the Kremlin. The 'people' have nothing to do with it.

Nobbynumbnuts
19-02-2015, 13:45
You're such a simpleton......

..not after he's had a bottle of vodka! :p

fenrir
19-02-2015, 13:46
Incorrect, comrade.
1) FSB monitors all sites.
2) Not in Wally's but your file ;)


More hell in comments, comrade... :brush:

I live outside the country so any possible file on me is meaningless. However, Wally lives in Russia and such foreigners get special attention from the security forces. All through Russian history starting from 1917, such foreigners have been viewed with suspicion no matter how 'loyal' they say they are or even demonstrate. Very many suffered arrest, torture and death. You know that as well as I do. Only Wally is in denial here.

fenrir
19-02-2015, 13:48
Yes but McDonald's is an American company and anyway the price here in dollar terms was always cheaper.

Sorry to tell this but it's been the Ukrainian government which started the bombing at the advice of American politicians. Why after one year no development on the deaths in Kiev? Odessa? The plane that was shot down? Why was there an agreement that any one of the parties involved in the investigation could seal any findings? Could it be that the new government in Kiev shot it down so they could blame it on Russia? Very convenient they gave Kiev the right to close any finding wouldn't you say?

Proof, please. And you know what standard I have for proof so no nonsense.

Armoured
19-02-2015, 14:59
You're such a simpleton. The purpose is to drive a wedge between Putin, his allies and the oligarchs as well as the various factions in the Kremlin.

That's quite possibly the first thing you've written that I agree with.


The 'people' have nothing to do with it.

Yes, you're right - as ever in Russian governance. Too bad for the people - they get 'anti-sanctions' imposed on them by their own government.

tonytony
19-02-2015, 15:28
I picked up ground beef today for 158 rubles for 800 grams. What's the price in the states?
Perhaps you would like to compare the average salary in, say, Orenburg, Russia and, say, Chicago, the US? What is the difference? 1000%? 1500%?


According to Rosstat, the median salary in Russia in 2013 was 21,268 roubles per month. That's gross, so you'll need to take off income tax.

If you're used to Moscow prices and wages then that might come as a bit of a shock. In fact, somebody earning 40,000 roubles a month is in the top 20% of earners in Russia:-

http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/trud/obsled/trud2013.htm

Compare this with the UK where the median gross wage for full time workers in 2013 was 215,000 roubles per month. However, tax is quite a bit higher in the UK so median take home pay is 170,000 roubles per month.

When it comes to the price of mince. Aldi are currently selling 750g for £2.59 that's 248 roubles. That's 330 roubles a kilo against your 197 roubles a kilo:-

https://www.aldi.co.uk/en/product-range/exclusive-to-aldi/everyday-essentials/everyday-essentials/ps/p/everyday-essentials-british-beef-mince/

So average salaries are eight times higher, but the mince is 67% extra.


Obviously there are many different qualities of mince and Aldi also sell different types at different prices; there is even a luxury Aberdeen Angus beef mince at 669 roubles a kilo.

Although not everything is fantastic in the UK, don't forget how expensive housing is. The average price for renting a home in the UK is 73,000 roubles per month.


All figures converted at today's rate of 95.8

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 15:30
That's quite possibly the first thing you've written that I agree with.



Yes, you're right - as ever in Russian governance. Too bad for the people - they get 'anti-sanctions' imposed on them by their own government.



This wedge only strengthen Putin and resolve of the Russian people. A big miscalculation by America. It is even driving a wedge between the EU countries and the EU and America.

If you think that western products and comfort is more important to Russians than Russian sovereignty you thinking like the slave and whimp you were brought up to be by your western culture and are very wrong.

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 15:49
Proof, please. And you know what standard I have for proof so no nonsense.



Taking into consideration the sources you link to here and the "proof you show I would say your "standard" is based on the good old American double standard.

Again after a government official in your beloved Estonia was heard saying that the protester and police were shot by the same weapon and now a year later still no investigation by the Kiev government I think we can safely assume that it was they who did the shooting as they were the only ones to benefit. Same goes for the massacre in Odessa. Kiev doesn't want the truth to come out. I'm betting MH17 will somehow be forgotten too.

Armoured
19-02-2015, 15:52
... you thinking like the slave and whimp you were brought up to be by your western culture and are very wrong.

Since you were reportedly brought up in that western culture, it would seem to me you're telling us that you've just changed masters...

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 16:07
Since you were reportedly brought up in that western culture, it would seem to me you're telling us that you've just changed masters...



Never had a master and never will. I've been working as a musician for the last 30 years not in some office for a boss like you.

fenrir
19-02-2015, 16:43
Taking into consideration the sources you link to here and the "proof you show I would say your "standard" is based on the good old American double standard.

Again after a government official in your beloved Estonia was heard saying that the protester and police were shot by the same weapon and now a year later still no investigation by the Kiev government I think we can safely assume that it was they who did the shooting as they were the only ones to benefit. Same goes for the massacre in Odessa. Kiev doesn't want the truth to come out. I'm betting MH17 will somehow be forgotten too.

Ah, yes. That conversation where Urmas Paet said 'a doctor identified only as Olga had told him on a visit to Kiev that snipers may have come from the opposition.' and 'The same Olga told that, well, all the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers from both sides among policemen and then people from the street,' Paet says.

Do you know how far that would go in a courtroom? Nowhere. This mysterious Doctor Olga who we can't see or question? She could very easily have been a Russian plant to give disinformation. Russia has always been good at that sort of thing. Sorry but no dice. Next!

Regarding MH17, there are the Ukrainian radio intercepts, some nice pictures from locals and Strelkov's own words. Then there is the omission of evidence from Russia. With all their satellites and radar systems in the area, where is their counter-evidence? That omission is very telling.

Do try harder.

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 17:21
Ah, yes. That conversation where Urmas Paet said 'a doctor identified only as Olga had told him on a visit to Kiev that snipers may have come from the opposition.' and 'The same Olga told that, well, all the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers from both sides among policemen and then people from the street,' Paet says.

Do you know how far that would go in a courtroom? Nowhere. This mysterious Doctor Olga who we can't see or question? She could very easily have been a Russian plant to give disinformation. Russia has always been good at that sort of thing. Sorry but no dice. Next!

Regarding MH17, there are the Ukrainian radio intercepts, some nice pictures from locals and Strelkov's own words. Then there is the omission of evidence from Russia. With all their satellites and radar systems in the area, where is their counter-evidence? That omission is very telling.

Do try harder.




What are you talking about you fool. It's called ballistics. They matched bullets and found they were fired from the same gun.


The radio intercepts were proven to be made the day before the plane was even shot down. Every digital recording has a date stamp you can not change or manipulate.

Russian Lad
19-02-2015, 18:48
A huge, disorderly line for sugar in Lipetsk. Where are the laughing people, Wally? I don't see the laughing people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLEQyveGixk

Nobbynumbnuts
19-02-2015, 19:10
.....Where are the laughing people, Wally? I don't see the laughing people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLEQyveGixk


Put your Wally glasses on!! ;)

fenrir
19-02-2015, 21:22
What are you talking about you fool. It's called ballistics. They matched bullets and found they were fired from the same gun.


The radio intercepts were proven to be made the day before the plane was even shot down. Every digital recording has a date stamp you can not change or manipulate.

Date stamps CAN be changed/manipulated. I know a couple of hacker guys who laughed their a--es off at your statement and explained the facts of life to me regarding them.

You have not addressed the Strelkov point or the lack of Russian evidence even though they have satellites/radar systems up the kazoo in that area. Where's the beef?

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 21:29
A huge, disorderly line for sugar in Lipetsk. Where are the laughing people, Wally? I don't see the laughing people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLEQyveGixk


The guy taking the video was laughing.

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 21:34
Date stamps CAN be changed/manipulated. I know a couple of hacker guys who laughed their a--es off at your statement and explained the facts of life to me regarding them.

You have not addressed the Strelkov point or the lack of Russian evidence even though they have satellites/radar systems up the kazoo in that area. Where's the beef?


But you don't explain how it could be to the good people of this forum.



Go back over the MH17 thread of this forum plenty of proof was shown.

fenrir
19-02-2015, 22:07
But you don't explain how it could be to the good people of this forum.



Go back over the MH17 thread of this forum plenty of proof was shown.

If you don't like my points, it is up to YOU to counter them. I countered yours and this is all you can do?

Uncle Wally
19-02-2015, 22:33
If you don't like my points, it is up to YOU to counter them. I countered yours and this is all you can do?



You showed no proof of anything.

fenrir
19-02-2015, 23:09
You showed no proof of anything.

Sure I did. I took your comment about Paet and showed you how it wouldn't even get into a courtroom. I also told you (and no one has disputed it) that Russia has not given ANY counter-evidence even though they have a huge concentration of radar plus their own satellites in the area. Sometimes the lack of certain evidence is evidence itself. Where is the Russian counter-evidence? Were all their radar operators on zapoi at the same time?

fenrir
19-02-2015, 23:16
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-burning-dollar-stockpile-184600869.html

Spend, spend, spend!!!

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 01:04
Sure I did. I took your comment about Paet and showed you how it wouldn't even get into a courtroom. I also told you (and no one has disputed it) that Russia has not given ANY counter-evidence even though they have a huge concentration of radar plus their own satellites in the area. Sometimes the lack of certain evidence is evidence itself. Where is the Russian counter-evidence? Were all their radar operators on zapoi at the same time?



Gee you must have forgot about that or don't watch RT. That's when they showed Ukrainian air force jets were following the plane. It was America's lack of evidence that was so evident.

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 01:15
The article fails to mention that Russia is the largest buyers of gold.


While America is just printing printing printing it's way to another depression. The only thing fighting deflation in America is the increase of dollars. Debt is so huge now that it will destroy every economy in the world. This is why the US government is trying to keep you preoccupied with Russia, ISIS and so on.


Also doesn't say anything about all the countries trying to get their gold back as fast as they can.

Carl
20-02-2015, 01:42
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/one-third-of-russians-expect-firings-wage-cuts/516183.html

And the knock-on effect of this will be catastrophic: less tax money to the government and less money to be spent in shops. And Wally, spare us your 'I know two guys who got raises recently, so this can't be true' nonsense.

But this is actually a good thing. It will teach those having their wages slashed or getting fired to live more moderately. It's just a lesson in "living within your means" ..so it's a good thing..trust me. You'll see the benefits in no time.

Russian Lad
20-02-2015, 06:43
The guy taking the video was laughing.

Yes, Sherlock, I would be laughing too. But where are the laughing people?

fenrir
20-02-2015, 09:54
The article fails to mention that Russia is the largest buyers of gold.


While America is just printing printing printing it's way to another depression. The only thing fighting deflation in America is the increase of dollars. Debt is so huge now that it will destroy every economy in the world. This is why the US government is trying to keep you preoccupied with Russia, ISIS and so on.


Also doesn't say anything about all the countries trying to get their gold back as fast as they can.

Because it is not an article about gold. It also didn't talk about copper futures for the same reason.

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 10:21
Because it is not an article about gold. It also didn't talk about copper futures for the same reason.


Russia doesn't buy copper futures it doesn't buy gold futures either it buys physical gold and holds it as reserves. So if the price of gold goes down in dollar terms so does the reserves.

fenrir
20-02-2015, 11:04
Russia doesn't buy copper futures it doesn't buy gold futures either it buys physical gold and holds it as reserves. So if the price of gold goes down in dollar terms so does the reserves.

Smoke and mirrors. You're just changing the topic again because you have nothing concrete to say about the reserves being burned up. Something will have to give because the Russian reserves are quite finite. Then the real fun begins.

Nobbynumbnuts
20-02-2015, 13:14
...It was Brussels that was afraid to cut off Russia because Russia could just set up their own system and that would hurt SWIFT too much.....

Swift:
More than 10,800 banking organisations, securities institutions and corporate customers in over 200 countries
http://www.swift.com/about_swift/index

Would be a big blow to Russia's banking system if they pulled out :rolleyes:

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 13:19
Swift:
More than 10,800 banking organisations, securities institutions and corporate customers in over 200 countries
http://www.swift.com/about_swift/index

Would be a big blow to Russia's banking system if they pulled out :rolleyes:

I thought there were only 190 countries in the world?

That's why SWIFT never followed through on the threat right? It would hurt Russia too much. Do you do stand up for a hobby or do you just speak before your brain kicks in?

fenrir
20-02-2015, 14:24
I thought there were only 190 countries in the world?

That's why SWIFT never followed through on the threat right? It would hurt Russia too much. Do you do stand up for a hobby or do you just speak before your brain kicks in?

SWIFT is not an organization that can make political decisions. Obama is the one that can cut Russia off from it. You made the earlier statement that just parroted idiotic Russian officials who said they can just create an alternative. Do you think it is really that easy? If it were, then it would have been done many times over already by different entities. It is just bluster from scared sh-tless Russian officials because they know being cut off would cause severe damage to an already severely damaged economy. If it were so easy to do, then why hasn't it been done already. Instead of threatening war if they are cut off from SWIFT, why hasn't Moscow created their own system and cut themselves off from the system? Try to work that out in your Putinka addled mind.

FatAndy
20-02-2015, 15:25
just parroted idiotic Russian officials who said they can just create an alternative. Do you think it is really that easy? If it were, then it would have been done many times over already by different entities.
:D Inside RF all payments go by CBR payment system since 2005. For outside ones disabling SWIFT may cause some issues... well... before SWIFT in 199x there were fax transmissions, telex etc. Also, we can connect via China, BVI, Caymans, HK, etc. Not a big business. For some days it will be a hell, later on everything go quiet.

But we'll have hands unbound for "without limits" :) Which may or may not include debts payments :D


why hasn't Moscow created their own system and cut themselves off from the system?
Some things are convenient and "common-acceptable". In jeopardised period we just switch to internal one and everything works. The heredity of damned totalitarian times, works since 1958 ;)

fenrir
20-02-2015, 16:11
:D Inside RF all payments go by CBR payment system since 2005. For outside ones disabling SWIFT may cause some issues... well... before SWIFT in 199x there were fax transmissions, telex etc. Also, we can connect via China, BVI, Caymans, HK, etc. Not a big business. For some days it will be a hell, later on everything go quiet.

But we'll have hands unbound for "without limits" :) Which may or may not include debts payments :D


Some things are convenient and "common-acceptable". In jeopardised period we just switch to internal one and everything works. The heredity of damned totalitarian times, works since 1958 ;)

That's all nonsense and you know it. The proof is that your government has threatened war over SWIFT. That telegraphs VERY clearly how SCARED they are of being cut off. No one makes threats like that if they are not scared sh-tless.

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 19:39
That's all nonsense and you know it. The proof is that your government has threatened war over SWIFT. That telegraphs VERY clearly how SCARED they are of being cut off. No one makes threats like that if they are not scared sh-tless.



How do you come up with stuff?

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 21:47
Smoke and mirrors. You're just changing the topic again because you have nothing concrete to say about the reserves being burned up. Something will have to give because the Russian reserves are quite finite. Then the real fun begins.



That could be a year from now and by that time oil prices will go back up. Remember this is "reserves" it's money above what the government needs that doesn't mean that as soon as that runs out that they won't be able to pay their bills.

Do you really think America's printing of money can go on forever? As of now they can't stop because the house of financial cards they build would come crashing down.

Nobbynumbnuts
20-02-2015, 22:26
....by that time oil prices will go back up................

I'll alert OPEC ;)

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 22:39
I'll alert OPEC ;)



I think they know by now. The only thing that could stop would be the coming depression in America.

fenrir
20-02-2015, 22:50
I think they know by now. The only thing that could stop would be the coming depression in America.

Or the slow down in China or Saudi Arabia deciding to keep the taps open to FUBAR Moscow.

Uncle Wally
20-02-2015, 23:45
Or the slow down in China or Saudi Arabia deciding to keep the taps open to FUBAR Moscow.



Oh yeah you're so smart. The oil glut was only Saudi Arabia, it had nothing to do with all the fracking going on in America that won't be going on by next summer.

Russian Lad
21-02-2015, 00:03
Somehow I trust Credit Suisse more than Wally. CS has issued a statement claiming the temporary strengthening of the ruble will be reversed very soon. Also, many analytics still warn the oil price will drop to as low as 45 within the coming three months. How much is it expected to be in the Wally World, say, in April? http://www.finanz.ru/novosti/valyuty/analitiki-ne-veryat-v-ustoychivost-besprecedentnogo-ralli-rublya-1000505027

zzhhst
21-02-2015, 04:11
Economist (Western) say 6 billion dollars was spent last week to support the Ruble. At this rate Russia will default this time next year. 380 bill with 180 billion debt. Running out of cash. even if he digs deep in the family 200 billion. 1.5 years. Russia needs 200 billion for trade. where is the cash. Not in China false path.

zzhhst
21-02-2015, 04:17
Somehow I trust Credit Suisse more than Wally. CS has issued a statement claiming the temporary strengthening of the ruble will be reversed very soon. Also, many analytics still warn the oil price will drop to as low as 45 within the coming three months. How much is it expected to be in the Wally World, say, in April? http://www.finanz.ru/novosti/valyuty/analitiki-ne-veryat-v-ustoychivost-besprecedentnogo-ralli-rublya-1000505027

going to 25-30 count on it

Armoured
21-02-2015, 04:40
Moody's downgraded Russia to junk today...

AstarD
21-02-2015, 08:29
Moody's downgraded Russia to junk today...

Please. It's not junk. It's speculative grade.

Russian Lad
21-02-2015, 08:31
Please. It's not junk. It's speculative grade.

Planning to invest? :beerbros:

AstarD
21-02-2015, 08:41
Planning to invest? :beerbros:

I don't speculate.

FatAndy
21-02-2015, 09:07
Moody's downgraded Russia to junk today...
Terrible. I'd never trust the company with such name ;)

Russian Lad
21-02-2015, 09:28
Terrible. I'd never trust the company with such name

The problem is the global investors find the name FatAndy even less reliable. I realize they are making a big mistake, but what can we do? Stupid foreigners. Wonder if the ruble will be within the eighties mark the next week.

FatAndy
21-02-2015, 10:32
The problem is the global investors find the name FatAndy even less reliable. I realize they are making a big mistake, but what can we do?
I don't care. :)


Stupid foreigners
Easier, comrade... ;)


Wonder if the ruble will be within the eighties mark the next week.
Will see.


Economist (Western) say 6 billion dollars was spent last week to support the Ruble.
By whom? CBR did the last intervention at 2nd Feb, 690M.

Uncle Wally
21-02-2015, 17:04
I'll alert OPEC ;)



Also tell them that over 1000 oil rigs have been shut down in the US of A.


The price will be back up to 80 or 90 dollars in one year. How can Saudi Arabia pay for all the terrorist they support if oil doesn't go back up?

fenrir
21-02-2015, 18:12
Also tell them that over 1000 oil rigs have been shut down in the US of A.


The price will be back up to 80 or 90 dollars in one year. How can Saudi Arabia pay for all the terrorist they support if oil doesn't go back up?

Check out KSA's reserves. Not bad for a nation of 27.3 million.

https://www.imf.org/external/np/sta/ir/IRProcessWeb/data/sau/eng/cursau.htm

Uncle Wally
21-02-2015, 20:33
Check out KSA's reserves. Not bad for a nation of 27.3 million.

https://www.imf.org/external/np/sta/ir/IRProcessWeb/data/sau/eng/cursau.htm


You sound really proud of these creeps. Maybe you envy the way they treat women or how the whip people 2000 times for writing something bad about them or maybe how they just crop people's heads off without giving it a thought. Cool guys huh?


They burn though cash and I'm sure they will need to buy more weapons which aren't cheap. Supporting terrorist like they do can't be that cheap and they live very expensive lives. I heard it cost one prince a million bucks a day just to keep his palace running. They said they could go two years on low oil prices, lets see.

fenrir
21-02-2015, 21:38
You sound really proud of these creeps. Maybe you envy the way they treat women or how the whip people 2000 times for writing something bad about them or maybe how they just crop people's heads off without giving it a thought. Cool guys huh?

I know it is hard to do but try to stay focused. None of what you wrote above has anything to do with oil prices and national reserves.

fenrir
21-02-2015, 21:40
I heard it cost one prince a million bucks a day just to keep his palace running.

I heard Allah provides it for free.

Uncle Wally
21-02-2015, 23:18
I know it is hard to do but try to stay focused. None of what you wrote above has anything to do with oil prices and national reserves.



No it has to do with your sick perverted nature. I am saddened to be in the same species as you. :bird:

Uncle Wally
21-02-2015, 23:26
You know one big glaring difference between Putin and Bush?

Bush is a convicted war criminal and as soon as Obama gets out of office the same fate await him.

fenrir
22-02-2015, 08:12
You know one big glaring difference between Putin and Bush?

Bush is a convicted war criminal and as soon as Obama gets out of office the same fate await him.

Convicted in which court?

Uncle Wally
22-02-2015, 12:59
Convicted in which court?



Malaysia. This is why Bush and Cheney can't leave America. Cheney couldn't even go to Canada because of the warrant.

PJB
22-02-2015, 23:40
Malaysia. This is why Bush and Cheney can't leave America. Cheney couldn't even go to Canada because of the warrant.

Wally we've been over this in a previous post of yours. Bush and Cheney have no world recognized convictions against them anywhere. They have and still do travel freely without restrictions. Bush travels to Africa for his projects that promote Women's health and cancer prevention. Cheney was in the Middle East in March 2014 and there was no news of him being stopped, arrested or in any way impeded by the fake "conviction" your goofy news sources reported.

Uncle Wally
23-02-2015, 01:31
Wally we've been over this in a previous post of yours. Bush and Cheney have no world recognized convictions against them anywhere. They have and still do travel freely without restrictions. Bush travels to Africa for his projects that promote Women's health and cancer prevention. Cheney was in the Middle East in March 2014 and there was no news of him being stopped, arrested or in any way impeded by the fake "conviction" your goofy news sources reported.



Sorry I was wrong.


It was Kuala Lumpur

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-crimes-in-absentia/



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpur_War_Crimes_Commission




So we don't have to go over it again. Bush is a war crimial.

fenrir
23-02-2015, 14:19
Sorry I was wrong.


It was Kuala Lumpur

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-crimes-in-absentia/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpur_War_Crimes_Commission

So we don't have to go over it again. Bush is a war crimial.

It's funny how you overlooked the most relevant part of YOUR OWN source:

The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, has suggested the tribunal is a private enterprise with no legal basis and questions its legitimacy.[13] The tribunal does not have a UN mandate or recognition, no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear that its verdicts have any but symbolic significance.

Congrats. Your 'Bush is a convicted war criminal' has been debunked by your own source. Good job.

PJB
23-02-2015, 21:56
Also interesting is the list of nations that get "investigated" and accused of war crimes while others that are waging war and invading other countries are declared to have "legitimate interests" and are excused for killing (March 2014 news update at criminalisewar.org/2014/the-hypocrisy-c).

They seem to focus their condemnation only on Western countries and their allies while completely ignoring the rest of the world's wars and atrocities.

Uncle Wally
23-02-2015, 22:11
Also interesting is the list of nations that get "investigated" and accused of war crimes while others that are waging war and invading other countries are declared to have "legitimate interests" and are excused for killing (March 2014 news update at criminalisewar.org/2014/the-hypocrisy-c).

They seem to focus their condemnation only on Western countries and their allies while completely ignoring the rest of the world's wars and atrocities.



Oh that's right, wearing unmarked uniforms is a war crime but water boarding, kidnapping and imprisonment without trial is not.

Uncle Wally
23-02-2015, 22:15
It's funny how you overlooked the most relevant part of YOUR OWN source:

The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, has suggested the tribunal is a private enterprise with no legal basis and questions its legitimacy.[13] The tribunal does not have a UN mandate or recognition, no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear that its verdicts have any but symbolic significance.

Congrats. Your 'Bush is a convicted war criminal' has been debunked by your own source. Good job.



No I didn't over look anything. Does not change the facts of what Bush and America have done. Really cool you can stand up for sure evil people. Does that make you feel good?

fenrir
23-02-2015, 22:46
No I didn't over look anything. Does not change the facts of what Bush and America have done. Really cool you can stand up for sure evil people. Does that make you feel good?

Do your constant lies make you feel good?

PJB
23-02-2015, 22:59
Oh that's right, wearing unmarked uniforms is a war crime but water boarding, kidnapping and imprisonment without trial is not.

Well I'm not an expert in war crimes but I will take a wild guess that burning captives alive and beheading prisoners then posting videos of these "executions" on the internet might fall into one or more categories of "war crimes".
But it seems the Kuala Lumpur "judges" are only interested in condemning USA, Great Briton, Canada and Israel. Seems kind of unusual for what claims to be a world recognized legitimate entity to focus on a specific political agenda?
Oops, my bad. NOBODY (except themselves and RT) recognizes them as legitimate.

Uncle Wally
23-02-2015, 23:07
Well I'm not an expert in war crimes but I will take a wild guess that burning captives alive and beheading prisoners then posting videos of these "executions" on the internet might fall into one or more categories of "war crimes".
But it seems the Kuala Lumpur "judges" are only interested in condemning USA, Great Briton, Canada and Israel. Seems kind of unusual for what claims to be a world recognized legitimate entity to focus on a specific political agenda?
Oops, my bad. NOBODY (except themselves and RT) recognizes them as legitimate.



What are you going to get them on? Faking videos? Those videos only make Americans want to go to war, the reason I think they keep making them. We know who funds, trains and gives IS weapons, yes you guessed right the good old U.S. Of A.

bydand
23-02-2015, 23:21
What are you going to get them on? Faking videos? Those videos only make Americans want to go to war, the reason I think they keep making them. We know who funds, trains and gives IS weapons, yes you guessed right the good old U.S. Of A.

Where is your UTube video that proves this idiotic allegation glass onion eyes? Excepting where an airdrop of small arms to the Kurds got intercepted by IS, which is documented.

bydand
23-02-2015, 23:42
Back somewhat to the OP which started to derail with post #518.


Moody's Investors Service downgraded Russia's sovereign debt to junk status on Friday, citing the crisis in Ukraine and the falling price of oil.

Moody's cut Russia's rating to Ba1 from Baa3, with a negative outlook.

"Russia is expected to experience a deep recession in 2015 and a continued contraction in 2016," the ratings agency said in a statement.

Moody's also warned of the—still remote—possibility that Russia could decide on an extreme response to Western pressure over Ukraine.

"The risk is rising, although still very low, that the international response to the military conflict in Ukraine triggers a decision by the Russian authorities that directly or indirectly undermines timely payments on external debt service," it said.

27676

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/moodys-downgrades-russia-sovereign-debt-to-junk/ar-BBhO1HA

Russian Lad
23-02-2015, 23:48
This week will be interesting, the oil is dropping again, Oman has promised to step up production. Add the decreased ratings and the undermined Minsk agreement and the EU stand against the Russian nuclear plant in Hungary and the continued bank squeeze and various scandals and hostilities on the diplomatic level - we may be staring down the barrel of yet another spiral of the ruble collapse...
In a way, I want TolkoRaz wet dreams to materialize, because it would help precipitate and catalyze the inevitable.

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 00:19
Where is your UTube video that proves this idiotic allegation glass onion eyes? Excepting where an airdrop of small arms to the Kurds got intercepted by IS, which is documented.



That wasn't the only airdrop that ended up in the wrong hands. The people joining IS are the same ones trained by America in Jordan to fight in Syria and the idiots keep training more! The US also conveniently left poorly guarded tanks and other weapons in Iraq that IS is now using. You think that a great nation like America could figure a way not to let IS get weapons but I guess nobody ever thought of that. The only thing they think of is how to get more weapons there and how to get US troops in. This is a f#@king farse! Fake YouTube videos with fake blood and oops we dropped weapons in the wrong place and bombed the wrong people. Hell it started out by America bombing IS offices at night when nobody was there! Fake fake fake but it's costing lots for US tax payers and making the military industrial complex money so all is good right.


You are the one with the blinders on.

bydand
24-02-2015, 00:48
Russians with an opinion on the subject feel the ruble is in for further decline.

Россияне ждут роста доллара
https://news.mail.ru/economics/21164700/?frommail=1

PJB
24-02-2015, 00:53
This week will be interesting, the oil is dropping again, Oman has promised to step up production. Add the decreased ratings and the undermined Minsk agreement and the EU stand against the Russian nuclear plant in Hungary and the continued bank squeeze and various scandals and hostilities on the diplomatic level - we may be staring down the barrel of yet another spiral of the ruble collapse...
In a way, I want TolkoRaz wet dreams to materialize, because it would help precipitate and catalyze the inevitable.

I believe that there won't be a big, flash-bang economic collapse but more of a gradual death spiral. The Kremlin has been able to find enough fingers to plug the holes in the dike but the slow leaks will eventually put Russia into deep trouble that will last for many years. I think that as long as VVP can keep the folk on "Invasion Alert" mindset that Russians will believe and support all sacrifices and hardships as necessary for the Motherland's survival.

Russian Lad
24-02-2015, 01:12
I think that as long as VVP can keep the folk on "Invasion Alert" mindset that Russians will believe and support all sacrifices and hardships as necessary for the Motherland's survival.

I doubt strongly that they will be eager to sacrifice everything (not that they had a lot to begin with). But let's see. Also, we don't really know how bad the situation in the economy is (since they lie a lot about many things, they may be lying about the economy too, even about the amount of the slush fund, I would not be surprised if the coffers are almost empty) - if you remember the previous collapse down to 100+, not many people expected such a crash. The rule of sh't hitting the fan implies the sh't hits sort of unexpectedly, always. There are indications we have to look for, though, that may lead to this "unexpected" turn of events. If oil drops to 30 and below (it may happen within a month or two) the ruble will go down to 100+ by default and, combined with other undermining factors, it may hit unknown heights.
And look at what TolkoRaz is dreaming about - if THAT materializes in the spring, it will be time to run for cover, not exactly metaphorically speaking.
Meanwhile, the dollar - 63, the Euro - 72 now.

Armoured
24-02-2015, 10:56
:D Inside RF all payments go by CBR payment system since 2005. For outside ones disabling SWIFT may cause some issues... well... before SWIFT in 199x there were fax transmissions, telex etc.

SWIFT is used for more things than just payments. For example, used also for trade finance transactions and other contracts that don't have immediate payment. Recognized as valid contracts and banks do use it for some internal things (although most frequently when there is a third-country counterpart, too).

Although I'm sure it's also technically possible to transfer dollars w/i Russia as well, even so, SWIFT transfers through correspondent / clearing banks abroad are most common. For more exotic currencies (those banks don't frequently use), also common.


For some days it will be a hell, later on everything go quiet.

I'm not sure if 'quiet' is a good thing in this context.

FatAndy
24-02-2015, 10:58
I'm not sure if 'quiet' is a good thing in this context.
Will see.

Russian Lad
24-02-2015, 11:27
For outside ones disabling SWIFT may cause some issues... well... before SWIFT in 199x there were fax transmissions, telex etc. Also, we can connect via China, BVI, Caymans, HK, etc. Not a big business. For some days it will be a hell, later on everything go quiet.

That's pure nonsense, Andy. The economy will be thoroughly shattered if that happens. You better read up on the subject. It is like switching from a modern car to a horse. Of course you would still be alive, but don't count on fast going.:) And don't count on overtaking competitors driving Ferraris using this horse, or even keeping up with them. The hard currencies would be in 000 in no time. As a side effect, the whole Eurasian Union would not be a viable project anymore (it seems to be like half-alive even now), for the trade reasons. Et cetera. Such a disconnection would produce a chain of negative events. Really drastic ones.

fenrir
24-02-2015, 16:17
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-back-below-50-opec-095104719.html

There goes Wally's dream of oil going back up 70-80 soon. His prediction follows in line with his and Benedikt's various failed predictions/fantasies of crumbling sanctions, Russian military bases on Cyprus, Greece not trying to negotiate its debt and turning to Russia for help, the euro and dollar collapsing, and the return of the gold standard. Did I miss any big ones?

fenrir
24-02-2015, 16:20
And I have finally figured out why Wally acts like a Belieber towards Putin: Putin has made sure vodka prices don't rise too high!

Russian Lad
24-02-2015, 19:06
And I have finally figured out why Wally acts like a Belieber towards Putin: Putin has made sure vodka prices don't rise too high!

Bingo! :hooray: More than that, he has lowered the vodka prices recently. Wally lives in the vodka paradise, his immense gratitude and reverend devotion are fully understandable.


Did I miss any big ones?

Yes, the US a collapsed and failed state. The wet dream of Wally and the core of his current existence. He hates expensive vodka countries. If vodka doesn't come to Wally, Wally comes to vodka (C).
I have coined a new nickname for Wally - Wally Vodka. There was a Willy Wonka, he is Wally Vodka.:)

bydand
24-02-2015, 19:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evxrVjW-aeg:drink:

Judge
24-02-2015, 19:51
Looks like Russia's new payment system is soon to be implemented,


The Japanese JCB payment system is ready to start working with Russia’s national payment system (NPCS) by the end of 2015, according to company CEO Takashi Suetsugu.
http://rt.com/business/235079-jcb-national-payment-system/

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 21:39
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-back-below-50-opec-095104719.html

There goes Wally's dream of oil going back up 70-80 soon. His prediction follows in line with his and Benedikt's various failed predictions/fantasies of crumbling sanctions, Russian military bases on Cyprus, Greece not trying to negotiate its debt and turning to Russia for help, the euro and dollar collapsing, and the return of the gold standard. Did I miss any big ones?



Did I miss something? Is the game over?

One bit of advice, never start to celebrate before the whistle blows and the clock has run out.

fenrir
24-02-2015, 21:44
Did I miss something? Is the game over?

One bit of advice, never start to celebrate before the whistle blows and the clock has run out.

Moskva City and Skolkovo come to mind.

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 21:45
Looks like Russia's new payment system is soon to be implemented,


The Japanese JCB payment system is ready to start working with Russia’s national payment system (NPCS) by the end of 2015, according to company CEO Takashi Suetsugu.
http://rt.com/business/235079-jcb-national-payment-system/



The BRICS bank just got 100 billion in funds and should be open for business soon too.


While back at the FED they're fighting to keep their books closed to all prying eyes �� and threatening financial ruins if they have to let the US government do a full audit. Only criminals have something to hide.

TolkoRaz
24-02-2015, 21:47
An interesting development.............

Courtesy of STRATFOR:

Russia plans to open its first Islamic bank in the second half of 2015 to attract Sharia-compliant capital, Bloomberg reported Feb. 22. Moscow is expected to review a law to allow Islamic banking in the country and intends to attract tens of billions of dollars to help finance government projects such as railroads and manufacturing.

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 21:48
Moskva City and Skolkovo come to mind.



I was there just a few days ago, Moskva City was open. Had lots of shoppers in the mall too.

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 21:55
An interesting development.............

Courtesy of STRATFOR:

Russia plans to open its first Islamic bank in the second half of 2015 to attract Sharia-compliant capital, Bloomberg reported Feb. 22. Moscow is expected to review a law to allow Islamic banking in the country and intends to attract tens of billions of dollars to help finance government projects such as railroads and manufacturing.


What is Sharia compliant capital?


Money under a vail? Capital that hasn't been made on pork belly? Oh I know can't be spent without a male companion!

fenrir
24-02-2015, 21:58
I was there just a few days ago, Moskva City was open. Had lots of shoppers in the mall too.

http://www.businessinsider.com/moscows-flagship-12-billion-financial-district-is-a-half-empty-disaster-2015-2

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 22:27
http://www.businessinsider.com/moscows-flagship-12-billion-financial-district-is-a-half-empty-disaster-2015-2



Oh yes tragic oh the loss! But they will keep building and it will grow.

fenrir
24-02-2015, 22:39
Oh yes tragic oh the loss! But they will keep building and it will grow.

They can build as many buildings as they want but they can't make anyone rent them out. And it certainly will not be a 'financial center' in the forseeable future. Another big Russian fail along with Skolkovo. And you wonder why others and I are doubtful whenever Russia says it's going to build/develop any other big project?

penka
24-02-2015, 22:50
They can build as many buildings as they want but they can't make anyone rent them out. And it certainly will not be a 'financial center' in the forseeable future. Another big Russian fail along with Skolkovo. And you wonder why others and I are doubtful whenever Russia says it's going to build/develop any other big project?

Listen, wolf from hell, out of curiosity - do you have any other hobbies but hating Russia and Russians - or, given passion and dedication involved - do you do anything else for a living?:)

Russian Lad
24-02-2015, 22:54
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
Looks like Russia's new payment system is soon to be implemented,


The Japanese JCB payment system is ready to start working with Russia’s national payment system (NPCS) by the end of 2015, according to company CEO Takashi Suetsugu.
http://rt.com/business/235079-jcb-na...ayment-system/

It is good only for the transactions within the country, cannot be used for international transfers. NPCS can be hooked up to JCB, but guess where JCB is hooked up to?:) It is just funny games, I don't see any advantage in it for Russia.


Listen, wolf from hell, out of curiosity - do you have any other hobbies but hating Russia and Russians - or, given passion and dedication involved - do you do anything else for a living?

What is illogical in his statement? Skolkovo has failed miserably, we all know that, even our resident there, Mrzuzzo, has fully confirmed it. Investors' exodus from Russia counts in USD billions, we all know that as well. Many businesses in Russia are being shattered like cardboard boxes, foreigners are leaving the country in droves. Can't you face the reality and smell the coffee? It is the first step towards recovery, just ask the Germans.

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 23:04
It is good only for the transactions within the country, cannot be used for international transfers. NPCS can be hooked up to JCB, but guess where JCB is hooked up to?:) It is just funny games, I don't see any advantage in it for Russia.



What is illogical in his statement? Skolkovo has failed miserably, we all know that, even our resident there, Mrzuzzo, has fully confirmed it. Investors' exodus from Russia counts in USD billions, we all know that as well. Many businesses in Russia are being shattered like cardboard boxes, foreigners are leaving the country in droves. Can't you face the reality and smell the coffee? It is the first step towards recovery, just ask the Germans.



drama queen.

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 23:07
Listen, wolf from hell, out of curiosity - do you have any other hobbies but hating Russia and Russians - or, given passion and dedication involved - do you do anything else for a living?:)



He has said many times his wife is Russian so he can't hate Russia but his words and actions tell a different story. I think he's trying to get noticed and picked up by the US to work as a government troll.

Judge
24-02-2015, 23:12
It is good only for the transactions within the country, cannot be used for international transfers. NPCS can be hooked up to JCB, but guess where JCB is hooked up to?:) It is just funny games, I don't see any advantage in it for Russia.



I don't know the ins and out of this new system,but payments between the two countries will most probably be about cutting out the middle man....
Which is a good thing,and which should have been set up ages ago. ...

Russian Lad
24-02-2015, 23:16
As I understand, Visa is also participating in this project and will be taking a cut? JCB is hooked up to the American system, no? They could have hooked up to the Chinese system, by the Chinese system is also hooked up to the US. It is all a show for the average Ivan. And Judge.:) Ok, some payments may be done directly in the local currencies, but even Belarus has demanded payment in dollars from Russia for its kolbasa. Doubt it will be a viable/successful project in the long run.

tonytony
24-02-2015, 23:24
They can build as many buildings as they want but they can't make anyone rent them out. And it certainly will not be a 'financial center' in the forseeable future. Another big Russian fail along with Skolkovo. And you wonder why others and I are doubtful whenever Russia says it's going to build/develop any other big project?


Just because there's a problem when it's first built doesn't mean that it can't go on to be successful in the future.

Many years ago I used to work in Canary Wharf. The company that originally built that went bankrupt and for a long time companies had to be offered long rent free periods to get them to move there.

Now, 24 years later, the current owners have a net asset value of £3 billion and make operating profits of £200 million a year.

I would suggest that probably the original investors might have a difficult time but, in the long term, it's likely that Moscow City will be profitable for whoever is owning it then.

EDIT

For those that aren't aware, Canary Wharf is London's equivalent of Moscow City

Judge
24-02-2015, 23:43
As I understand, Visa is also participating in this project and will be taking a cut? JCB is hooked up to the American system, no? They could have hooked up to the Chinese system, by the Chinese system is also hooked up to the US. It is all a show for the average Ivan. And Judge.:) Ok, some payments may be done directly in the local currencies, but even Belarus has demanded payment in dollars from Russia for its kolbasa. Doubt it will be a viable/successful project in the long run.

It is about becoming more independent and having others connected to your system,the way it is now, if Visa and Mastercard pull the plug we could expect a total financial collapse,but that won't be the case now..These two have 90% of the Russian market it's a smart move by your country, one that was long overdue...

penka
24-02-2015, 23:47
It is good only for the transactions within the country, cannot be used for international transfers. NPCS can be hooked up to JCB, but guess where JCB is hooked up to?:) It is just funny games, I don't see any advantage in it for Russia.



What is illogical in his statement? Skolkovo has failed miserably, we all know that, even our resident there, Mrzuzzo, has fully confirmed it. Investors' exodus from Russia counts in USD billions, we all know that as well. Many businesses in Russia are being shattered like cardboard boxes, foreigners are leaving the country in droves. Can't you face the reality and smell the coffee? It is the first step towards recovery, just ask the Germans.

Lad, I'm positive the Ragnaröks avkomma is capable of responding for themselves.

And I was not discussing Skolkovo or even the appalling Moskva City, business or the stock exchange:)

Russian Lad
24-02-2015, 23:48
It is about becoming more independent and having others connected to your system,the way it is now, if Visa and Mastercard pull the plug we could expect a total financial collapse,but that won't be the case now..These two have 90% of the Russian market it's a smart move by your country, one that was long overdue...

I don't see it helping much, especially if we are disconnected from Swift. Millions of Russian households will simply be cut off the international banking system anyway. For instance, there are dozens of thousands of freelance translators with thousands of foreign clients, and so forth. There are millions of business ties that are in jeopardy. Cameron has threatened with this disconnection today again. If Tolko's dreams materialize in the spring-summer, we will be f'cked up here much more than even I have been hoping for. Scary sh't.


Lad, I'm positive the Ragnaröks avkomma is capable of responding for themselves.

And I was not discussing Skolkovo or even the appalling Moskva City, business or the stock exchange

Well, you gotta learn to see the (invisible) connections between many things when you are discussing geopolitics.

Uncle Wally
24-02-2015, 23:51
Just because there's a problem when it's first built doesn't mean that it can't go on to be successful in the future.

Many years ago I used to work in Canary Wharf. The company that originally built that went bankrupt and for a long time companies had to be offered long rent free periods to get them to move there.

Now, 24 years later, the current owners have a net asset value of £3 billion and make operating profits of £200 million a year.

I would suggest that probably the original investors might have a difficult time but, in the long term, it's likely that Moscow City will be profitable for whoever is owning it then.



Party pooper.

Judge
25-02-2015, 00:06
I don't see it helping much, especially if we are disconnected from Swift. Millions of Russian households will simply be cut off the international banking system anyway. For instance, there are dozens of thousands of freelance translators with thousands of foreign clients, and so forth. There are millions of business ties that are in jeopardy. Cameron has threatened with this disconnection today again. If Tolko's dreams materialize in the spring-summer, we will be f'cked up here much more than even I have been hoping for. Scary sh't.



You have been hoping for a lot of shit to happen,why scared of this?
Are you scared of Russia response. ?

Uncle Wally
25-02-2015, 00:08
You have been hoping for a lot of shit to happen,why scared of this?
Are you scared of Russia response. ?


No the fool isn't.

Russian Lad
25-02-2015, 00:20
You have been hoping for a lot of shit to happen,why scared of this?
Are you scared of Russia response. ?

For obvious reasons, it is too much sh't. The existing sh't pile is more than sufficient, in my view.
Sure I am afraid of the response, it would be another shot in the foot! I am afraid of the response from the point that it will surely harm the Russians even more. In the previous response they banned some Western food, this time around they may ban some Western cars and/or flights over Russia - and it will hurt Russia even more, like in the case of the food embargo.

fenrir
25-02-2015, 11:58
Listen, wolf from hell, out of curiosity - do you have any other hobbies but hating Russia and Russians - or, given passion and dedication involved - do you do anything else for a living?:)

You will notice that I don't post nearly as often as others on this site, so why don't you ask them the same question?

I don't hate Russians at all, but I have no respect or good feelings for the regime in power and what it is doing. What are your thoughts on Putin and Co. and what they are doing?

Armoured
25-02-2015, 11:59
Fondservicebank taken into temporary administration. Seems two-thirds of its balance sheet was deposits from state-owned entities, mostly 'aeronautical and space', and Rostech related. So any losses likely due to various fiddling within the state sector - all above board, I'm sure. Not much in the way of deposits from individuals so no plausible reason to save it, but Novikombank 'participating' in the temporary administration by the central bank - so most likely extra money will be pumped in to save wasted money by state-owned entities in the Rostech 'umbrella' (Novikom controlled by Rostech).

Screw you, taxpayer!

bydand
25-02-2015, 12:36
I don't hate Russians at all, but I have no respect or good feelings for the regime in power and what it is doing.

I think some don't understand criticism, making others aware of a situation, can be constructive. They would rather think everything is fine; perhaps because they feel helpless to do anything about the questionable situation.

Edit/Add The ones that do perceive/admit a problem, tend to discount or admonish the idea with something like "so what, there's corruption in every country" or "what about the US of A, they're worse" etc. etc.

Then the ones who think the situation is good and correct.

FatAndy
25-02-2015, 12:54
:emote_popcorn:

FatAndy
25-02-2015, 14:27
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/54edb0709a7947638f7688ee - military trainings of paratroopers in Pskov region.

penka
25-02-2015, 14:47
You will notice that I don't post nearly as often as others on this site, so why don't you ask them the same question?

I don't hate Russians at all, but I have no respect or good feelings for the regime in power and what it is doing. What are your thoughts on Putin and Co. and what they are doing?

:)

I am not thinking of Putin and Co, especially not this time of the year. Spring is nearly here, which means it's raining bills and time for the annual tango with the tax authorities:D

TolkoRaz
25-02-2015, 15:23
For obvious reasons, it is too much sh't. The existing sh't pile is more than sufficient, in my view.
Sure I am afraid of the response, it would be another shot in the foot! I am afraid of the response from the point that it will surely harm the Russians even more. In the previous response they banned some Western food, this time around they may ban some Western cars and/or flights over Russia - and it will hurt Russia even more, like in the case of the food embargo.

You have very quickly changed your tune! I never understood why you were jumping for joy when the Ruble was crashing? :confused:

Russian Lad
25-02-2015, 15:24
I am not thinking of Putin and Co

It doesn't mean they are not thinking about you...


I never understood why you were jumping for joy when the Ruble was crashing?

Because it could help stop the war and make an average Ivan more aware of the existing economic (and political) problems. The situation will get much worse even with Swift remaining. With Swift disconnected there can be complete chaos. I don't want complete chaos. Regulated chaos is ok.

TolkoRaz
25-02-2015, 15:26
You will notice that I don't post nearly as often as others on this site, so why don't you ask them the same question?


She asks the question because nearly every post of yours and thread started by you on this site is anti-Russian with most trolling for a reaction.............

TolkoRaz
25-02-2015, 15:27
I think some don't understand criticism, making others aware of a situation, can be constructive. They would rather think everything is fine; perhaps because they feel helpless to do anything about the questionable situation.

Edit/Add The ones that do perceive/admit a problem, tend to discount or admonish the idea with something like "so what, there's corruption in every country" or "what about the US of A, they're worse" etc. etc.

Then the ones who think the situation is good and correct.


?????????????????????? :coffee:

Russian Lad
25-02-2015, 15:43
every post of yours and thread started by you on this site is anti-Russian

He has clearly said he is not anti-Russian. If he was anti-Russian, he would be content with just beating and abusing his Russian wife on a regular basis, not posting here.:) There is a difference between being anti-Russian and not supporting the current policies. If we understand that the riff-and-ruff is gullible in any country, we have to focus on the elites at the times like that. The decision makers. And there are still millions of Russians who don't support what is being done, and this camp is growing daily, thanks to the sanctions and counter-sanctions. No Russian wants to buy kolbasa at 1K+ rubles per kilo and to take vacation in Magadan/Vorkuta instead of in France or Spain. It is sad that many come to seeing the light through their stomachs rather than through their brains, but there are many ways to skin a cat.
Also, I have answered your another question on the previous page.

Uncle Wally
25-02-2015, 22:20
He has clearly said he is not anti-Russian. If he was anti-Russian, he would be content with just beating and abusing his Russian wife on a regular basis, not posting here.:) There is a difference between being anti-Russian and not supporting the current policies. If we understand that the riff-and-ruff is gullible in any country, we have to focus on the elites at the times like that. The decision makers. And there are still millions of Russians who don't support what is being done, and this camp is growing daily, thanks to the sanctions and counter-sanctions. No Russian wants to buy kolbasa at 1K+ rubles per kilo and to take vacation in Magadan/Vorkuta instead of in France or Spain. It is sad that many come to seeing the light through their stomachs rather than through their brains, but there are many ways to skin a cat.
Also, I have answered your another question on the previous page.



What people say is one thing. What people do is another. I think we can tell by not only what he says but how he says it. Anti Russian through and through.

TolkoRaz
25-02-2015, 22:27
He has clearly said he is not anti-Russian. If he was anti-Russian, he would be content with just beating and abusing his Russian wife on a regular basis, not posting here.:) .

He is extremely anti-Russian! :10310:

As to beating his Russian wife, only he & she knows what happens behind closed curtains and doors! :book:

Uncle Wally
25-02-2015, 22:31
He is extremely anti-Russian! :10310:

As to beating his Russian wife, only he & she knows what happens behind closed curtains and doors! :book:



I bet his wife could kick his ass. Could be why he hates Russian.

fenrir
25-02-2015, 22:40
I bet his wife could kick his ass. Could be why he hates Russian.

Are we going to get into personal matters? Should I start commenting on the skanky sluts you date and call girlfriends?

Uncle Wally
25-02-2015, 22:57
Are we going to get into personal matters? Should I start commenting on the skanky sluts you date and call girlfriends?



I love skanky sluts! I live for sluts, skanky or otherwise.

You were getting personal a long time ago and was nothing against or poor wife but about you.

Judge
25-02-2015, 23:37
For obvious reasons, it is too much sh't. The existing sh't pile is more than sufficient, in my view.
Sure I am afraid of the response, it would be another shot in the foot! I am afraid of the response from the point that it will surely harm the Russians even more. In the previous response they banned some Western food, this time around they may ban some Western cars and/or flights over Russia - and it will hurt Russia even more, like in the case of the food embargo.

You are changing your tune, I thought you wanted more suffering for Russian people,reason cos this will bring about change,don't get soft on us now.

Western cars, yes, unemployment for many connected with this industry, but who is buying right now,like you said, hardly anyone's got savings, we would do with cars not sanctioned.
Flights over Russia, long way round for all ready hard up airlines, it's not like they will ban flights for us westwards, again if they do,many can't afford holidays.

If Russia is cut off from SWIFT then the gas/oil tap gets shut,reason is this is how Russia gets paid,maybe they wanna carry suitcases stuffed with euros to Russia.

Judge
25-02-2015, 23:50
He is extremely anti-Russian! :10310:

As to beating his Russian wife, only he & she knows what happens behind closed curtains and doors! :book:

It would be a boring site if we were all posting the same way,meaning, pro-Russia or pro-Putin - anti, Russophiles and Russophobes or whatever...it brings a bit of spice to the forum,again, it would be a boring place if it was all one way..

As long as things don't get out of hand,you know, a bit of banter here and there is OK, kinda harmless fun...It is not good when it gets really personal and grudges are held.

Russian Lad
26-02-2015, 00:02
You are changing your tune, I thought you wanted more suffering for Russian people,reason cos this will bring about change,don't get soft on us now.

I have already explained - complete chaos is not my intention. More suffering is going to come even without Swift disconnection, it is as clear as day. Swift disconnection seems to me a rather radical measure, but it is inevitably going to happen if Mariupol and/or Kharkov are attacked and taken, imho. Well, I cannot really influence the events, so I will have to just watch anyway. I would rather it didn't happen though.


If Russia is cut off from SWIFT then the gas/oil tap gets shut,reason is this is how Russia gets paid,maybe they wanna carry suitcases stuffed with euros to Russia.

Big businesses would not be threatened so much as the small, medium-sized ones.


Western cars, yes, unemployment for many connected with this industry, but who is buying right now,like you said, hardly anyone's got savings, we would do with cars not sanctioned.

The purchasing power has dropped significantly, but thousands of people are still buying cars. Yes, it would damage the jobs and the banking sector, to the point that it will trickle down the whole economy and damage the whole economy. It may have a negative impact on the West as well, but I live here, not in the West.

Russian Lad
26-02-2015, 00:30
They have started rationing in Kiev.

Since hyper inflation has taken hold, people were buying long shelf life food as a store of value, so there is a limit of how much cooking oil, suger, buckwheat etc you can buy.

Things have gone to the dogs

Instead of jumping with joy, I would suggest to consider it as a preview of what is going to happen in Moscow and all other major Russian cities, when the oil costs 30 or below.:9437: On one hand, Russia has oil and gas, on the other hand, oil and gas are becoming very cheap (gas prices are tied to oil prices) and we have the sanctions in place, which can be made worse, plus the run of investors from the country.

Uncle Wally
26-02-2015, 06:40
Instead of jumping with joy, I would suggest to consider it as a preview of what is going to happen in Moscow and all other major Russian cities, when the oil costs 30 or below.:9437: On one hand, Russia has oil and gas, on the other hand, oil and gas are becoming very cheap (gas prices are tied to oil prices) and we have the sanctions in place, which can be made worse, plus the run of investors from the country.



Russia is not Ukraine, there is a big difference there.

Uncle Wally
27-02-2015, 10:07
Did the Ruble just go up to 68 per Euro?

What was all this gloating about then Russian Lad?


Oh and food price seem to be going down also. So much for "we're all gonna stave!" Bull sh!t.

FatAndy
27-02-2015, 12:21
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/27/02/2015/54f026f19a794732a0ce06c3 - according to the order of The Darkest Lord, since this year 27 Feb is the Day of Special Forces, aka the Day of Polite People. ;)

Insha alla.

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150227/1049989172.html - military satellite has gone from Plesetsk cosmodrome by Soyuz-2.1a


http://www.polskieradio.pl/42/3166/Artykul/1387921/ - Polish farmers block railways between Warszawa and Moscow, claiming they have no support from govt regarding RF counter-sanctions. Next blocking actions expected next week. Damned Putin! :D

fenrir
27-02-2015, 15:00
Did the Ruble just go up to 68 per Euro?

What was all this gloating about then Russian Lad?


Oh and food price seem to be going down also. So much for "we're all gonna stave!" Bull sh!t.

Don't open the champagne yet.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/cash-strapped-russia-eyes-giving-china-control-of-major-oil-fields/516658.html

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-collapse-halves-profits-at-russia-s-novatek-gas-company/516657.html

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/lithuania-moves-to-replace-russian-gas-with-u-s-supplies/516655.html

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/austria-s-raiffeisen-bank-to-abandon-russian-far-east-amid-economic-crisis/516653.html

Nobbynumbnuts
27-02-2015, 15:14
Don't open the champagne yet.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/cash-strapped-russia-eyes-giving-china-control-of-major-oil-fields/516658.html

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-collapse-halves-profits-at-russia-s-novatek-gas-company/516657.html

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/lithuania-moves-to-replace-russian-gas-with-u-s-supplies/516655.html

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/austria-s-raiffeisen-bank-to-abandon-russian-far-east-amid-economic-crisis/516653.html

More foreign help. Just don't call it begging or you'll upset him...:p

Uncle Wally
27-02-2015, 22:33
More foreign help. Just don't call it begging or you'll upset him...:p



Don't worry I can see it all bull kaka. Like you.

TolkoRaz
27-02-2015, 22:51
Good news for the RF; 9th or 10th best economy in the World! :)

http://www.cebr.com/reports/world-economic-league-table-2015/

Carl
28-02-2015, 00:11
Good news for the RF; 9th or 10th best economy in the World! :)

http://www.cebr.com/reports/world-economic-league-table-2015/

With little/no advancement thru 2030..? You consider that good news?

Nobbynumbnuts
28-02-2015, 01:36
Don't worry I can see it all bull kaka. Like you.

...you're just an alcoholic American who's brown nosing his way in Russia-who cares what you think? You're not important lol
;-)

fenrir
28-02-2015, 01:56
Good news for the RF; 9th or 10th best economy in the World! :)

http://www.cebr.com/reports/world-economic-league-table-2015/

Big deal. The state of California has a GDP nearly equal to Russia.

Uncle Wally
28-02-2015, 04:52
...you're just an alcoholic American who's brown nosing his way in Russia-who cares what you think? You're not important lol
;-)



And you're a old pussy who just likes to talk big on the internet because he's got no balls to do anything in real life.



I think you can see where this is going and I can't understand why you couldn't see it before, you thinking you're so wonderful and smart and all, so why don't you be a man and just stop it?

Nobbynumbnuts
28-02-2015, 09:32
And you're a old pussy who just likes to talk big on the internet because he's got no balls to do anything in real life.



I think you can see where this is going and I can't understand why you couldn't see it before, you thinking you're so wonderful and smart and all, so why don't you be a man and just stop it?

Don't start crying, i'm only playing with you...:roll eyes: :D

FatAndy
28-02-2015, 09:49
With little/no advancement thru 2030..? You consider that good news?
Will see in 2030, how it went.


Big deal. The state of California has a GDP nearly equal to Russia.
Add 30 to 70%, it's suggested size of grey/black economy sector in RF.

Uncle Wally
28-02-2015, 21:27
Don't start crying, i'm only playing with you...:roll eyes: :D


I don't cry. Go play with yourself because I don't play.

Uncle Wally
01-03-2015, 12:29
Ruble = 68 - 1 euro

$ = 61


Oil ^ 61

Russian Lad = Russian Sad

Nobbynumbnuts
02-03-2015, 23:07
Been talking to a friend who is a restaurant consultant and he's informed me that 350 restaurants/cafes etc have closed in Moscow in the past couple of months and another 400 expected to do so in the next couple of months. His business has all but dried up.
The situation is worse outside Moscow. One client of his in a large provincial city has closed 5 of his cafes. Similar stories across the board. He's telling me people have money for 'top end' dining and baked potatoes, the middle market is falling away. A lot of specialist products (restaurants) are getting very difficult to source out in the boonies...

TolkoRaz
02-03-2015, 23:18
Been talking to a friend who is a restaurant consultant and he's informed me that 350 restaurants/cafes etc have closed in Moscow in the past couple of months and another 400 expected to do so in the next couple of months. His business has all but dried up.
The situation is worse outside Moscow. One client of his in a large provincial city has closed 5 of his cafes. Similar stories across the board. He's telling me people have money for 'top end' dining and baked potatoes, the middle market is falling away. A lot of specialist products (restaurants) are getting very difficult to source out in the boonies...

I hear that one of my favourite restaurants is soon to close, 'Mamina Pasta'

http://www.pasta-mamma.ru/

http://a-a-ah.com/pasta-mama

:(

Nobbynumbnuts
02-03-2015, 23:22
I hear that one of my favourite restaurants is soon to close, 'Mamina Pasta'

http://www.pasta-mamma.ru/

http://a-a-ah.com/pasta-mama

:(

Sorry to hear that. Luxuries like dining out are the first to get hit, unless your very wealthy....
Unless property owners are willing to reduce rents to reflect the new reality then a lot more are going to the wall.

Uncle Wally
02-03-2015, 23:57
Supermarkets have said they will freeze some prices. Milk, eggs, bread, cheese...

TolkoRaz
02-03-2015, 23:59
Supermarkets have said they will freeze some prices. Milk, eggs, bread, cheese...

as well as Ice Cream? ;)

Uncle Wally
03-03-2015, 00:03
as well as Ice Cream? ;)

Ice cream
You scream we all scream for ice cream!

AstarD
03-03-2015, 09:38
Ruble = 68 - 1 euro

$ = 61


Oil ^ 61

Russian Lad = Russian SadAs soon as the tax season is over, so will be the ruble's strengthening.

Uncle Wally
03-03-2015, 09:41
As soon as the tax season is over, so will be the ruble's strengthening.




Is that a threat?

Russian Lad
03-03-2015, 10:10
Is that a threat?


Seems more like an explanation. Frankly, I am not sure what peg is still holding the ruble even at the current levels. Daily monetary interventions are relentless, I cannot explain it by anything else in this increasingly toxic environment.
Well, Wally, the coffers will be completely empty within a year, according to Siluanov (was reading it on mail.ru just yesterday). Some experts say it can drag on for two years max, it seems to be Minfin's position too (they are often mistaken, by the way). What then?:) A heart-felt prayer and a miracle?:)


Supermarkets have said they will freeze some prices. Milk, eggs, bread, cheese...

For 2 months. And many supermarkets will not be in a particular hurry to buy/sell all this, so the first lines and fights for cheap (and vitally essential) food in stores are highly possible. The young Russians are about to learn a new word - deficit.

AstarD
03-03-2015, 12:00
Is that a threat?Just the explanation I heard on Gazprom Media radio this morning for the ruble's great growth from its very low position of late. And Gazprom also said that it would again lose value when the tax revenues were all accounted for and stopped pouring in--when tax season is over.

FatAndy
03-03-2015, 12:32
:emote_popcorn:

fenrir
03-03-2015, 13:04
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-03/l-shaped-oil-recovery-flattens-v-shaped-market-optimists?cmpid=yhoo

If $50-$60 oil is the new normal, Russia will be defanged through economic pressure that has nothing to do with the West. Imagine how much the state budget will have to be rewritten.

fenrir
03-03-2015, 22:15
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russians-average-salary-falls-to-500-as-food-prices-skyrocket/516947.html

Spending on food is expected to account for 50 to 55 percent of household income by the end of this year, business newspaper Vedomosti reported Monday. Food prices surged 22 percent in February alone, though that figure is expected to stabilize in coming months, Vedomosti said, citing VTB analysts.

Uncle Wally
04-03-2015, 00:13
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russians-average-salary-falls-to-500-as-food-prices-skyrocket/516947.html

Spending on food is expected to account for 50 to 55 percent of household income by the end of this year, business newspaper Vedomosti reported Monday. Food prices surged 22 percent in February alone, though that figure is expected to stabilize in coming months, Vedomosti said, citing VTB analysts.



It must really be hard for you to be a nobody.

bydand
04-03-2015, 10:18
Bank loans now 30% interest? Is that what I heard?

Russian Lad
04-03-2015, 10:29
20-30%. The banks are full of laughing people.
For instance: http://www.sberbank.ru/saintpetersburg/ru/person/credits/money/?utm_source=yandex.search&utm_medium=context&utm_term=sberbank_kredit&utm_campaign=Potreb_kredity

FatAndy
04-03-2015, 10:43
Bank loans now 30% interest? Is that what I heard?
Previously they were 18 to 24 for long term business and 25-28 for short credits, like home appliances, cars, furniture. A huge change, yep. :)

Russian Lad
04-03-2015, 10:59
Previously they were 18 to 24 for long term business and 25-28 for short credits, like home appliances, cars, furniture. A huge change, yep.

The CB interest rate has gone up 9%, so it is a no-brainer to understand that the credits interest rate has gone up 9% as well. It is a huge increase if you ask me. Not sure why you feel obliged to downplay the obvious. It also looks like the banks have increased their own interest too, even after adding those 9%.
In many developed countries, as I understand, the credit interest itself is less than this single increase percentage. It says on it "We are screwed", loud and clear.

fenrir
04-03-2015, 11:57
The CB interest rate has gone up 9%, so it is a no-brainer to understand that the credits interest rate has gone up 9% as well. It is a huge increase if you ask me. Not sure why you feel obliged to downplay the obvious. It also looks like the banks have increased their own interest too, even after adding those 9%.
In many developed countries, as I understand, the credit interest itself is less than this single increase percentage. It says on it "We are screwed", loud and clear.

And in the supposedly soon to be collapsing eurozone, I am paying 2.6% interest on my mortgage.

Russian Lad
04-03-2015, 12:21
I am paying 2.6% interest on my mortgage.

Lol. You are lying! The European Union is rotting! You are all very poor there! Russia is strong and Russians are more rich! Long live the Party! Putin is Russia! Russia is Putin! Khe-khe.

Fantastika
04-03-2015, 12:24
I read this morning the story about 30%, too.

The 30% story is about Ukraine, not Russia. Ukraine now has the world's highest central bank benchmark interest rate.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-03/ukraine-central-bank-increases-refinancing-rate-to-30-

Hmmm...Ukraine's newly-appointed Finance Minister, Natalie Jaresko, a U.S. national with experience working for the State Department in Washington, is from Chicago, the same place Obama is from.

Looks like a talking frog could have done a better job at managing Ukraine's finances than Natalie.

Fantastika
04-03-2015, 12:44
Ice cream
You scream we all scream for ice cream!

Ray Bradbury's wonderful short story "The Wonderful Ice Cream Suit".

http://raybradbury.ru/library/story/58/3/0/

Russian Lad
04-03-2015, 12:48
Fantastika, you absolutely MUST derail this thread?:)

fenrir
04-03-2015, 13:04
I read this morning the story about 30%, too.

The 30% story is about Ukraine, not Russia. Ukraine now has the world's highest central bank benchmark interest rate.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-03/ukraine-central-bank-increases-refinancing-rate-to-30-

Hmmm...Ukraine's newly-appointed Finance Minister, Natalie Jaresko, a U.S. national with experience working for the State Department in Washington, is from Chicago, the same place Obama is from.

Looks like a talking frog could have done a better job at managing Ukraine's finances than Natalie.

FatAndy wrote early 'Previously they were 18 to 24 for long term business and 25-28 for short credits, like home appliances, cars, furniture. A huge change, yep. '

Those are catastrophic rates no matter how you look at them.

Suuryaa
04-03-2015, 16:12
FatAndy wrote early 'Previously they were 18 to 24 for long term business and 25-28 for short credits, like home appliances, cars, furniture. A huge change, yep. '

Those are catastrophic rates no matter how you look at them.

Well, the EU is worried about deflation. It seems, whatever you do, you end up in trouble.

TolkoRaz
04-03-2015, 16:22
Well, the EU is worried about deflation. It seems, whatever you do, you end up in trouble.

Who needs over-paid economists? ;)

FatAndy
04-03-2015, 16:26
FatAndy wrote early 'Previously they were 18 to 24 for long term business and 25-28 for short credits, like home appliances, cars, furniture. A huge change, yep. '

Those are catastrophic rates no matter how you look at them.
:D ja-ja, das ist eine Katastrofe! ©

Armoured
04-03-2015, 16:43
Who needs over-paid economists? ;)

After some careful, rigorous economic analysis, I have the answer to this:

Economists.

Uncle Wally
04-03-2015, 20:09
Lol. You are lying! The European Union is rotting! You are all very poor there! Russia is strong and Russians are more rich! Long live the Party! Putin is Russia! Russia is Putin! Khe-khe.



No it could have been. If he got the loan years ago but what about now? Is it still 2.6%?

Fantastika
04-03-2015, 20:44
FatAndy wrote early 'Previously they were 18 to 24 for long term business and 25-28 for short credits, like home appliances, cars, furniture. A huge change, yep. '

Those are catastrophic rates no matter how you look at them.

How about if you are investor? Deposit some cash, get 25% interest, and maybe the ruble or Grivna, will float back up, come back after a year, maybe your money is doubled...

TolkoRaz
04-03-2015, 22:30
Courtesy of iJet:

UPDATE 8: Ukraine's National Bank raises benchmark interest rate to 30 percent. Delta Bank declared insolvent. Additional currency restrictions on businesses.

Updated Information

Late on March 3, Ukraine's central bank, the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU), raised that country's benchmark interest rate from 19.5 percent to 30 percent in an effort to stabilize the national currency, the hryvnia (UAH).

This makes the benchmark interest rate the highest it has been since 2000. The NBU also announced that it had declared the country's fourth largest bank, Delta Bank, insolvent, due to that bank's "risky policies" with regard to corporate lending. The NBU committed to compensating 94 percent of Delta Bank's depositors. Also on March 3, the NBU enacted a rule requiring companies to convert 75 percent of their foreign currency earnings into UAH.

Background and Analysis

Previous actions by the NBU have largely failed to halt a steep decline in the UAH, which has lost 80 percent of its value since April 2014. Ukraine's economy has been extremely volatile since Russia's incursion into Crimea in March 2014. The latest forecasts indicate the Ukrainian economy is likely to contract by at least 5.5 percent in 2015; industrial production was down by around 20 percent just in January 2015.

On March 27, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted an anti-crisis bill proposed by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to secure an international financial aid package. Ahead of the March 11 vote, then-acting Prime Minister Yatsenyuk told Parliament that it had "no other choice but to accept the IMF offer," as the country's fiscal gap in 2014 was projected to reach USD 26 billion. Ukraine needs approximately USD 35 billion over the next two years to avoid default. To qualify for assistance, the IMF required Kyiv to cut its budget deficit, increase retail energy tariffs by 50 percent for households and by 40 percent for utility companies, and shift to a flexible exchange rate, which is expected to increase inflation. Pending final approval by the IMF's board, Ukraine could get between USD 14 and USD 18 billion in loans over the next two years. The IMF program could also unlock amounts up to USD 27 billion during the same period, due to measures that will increase access to the broader international financial system. However, by February, the country's gold and foreign currency reserves had fallen to USD 6.4 billion, and foreign debt has reached USD 73 billion. Kyiv spent USD 14 billion to service its debt in 2014; this number will likely increase in 2015.

Uncle Wally
05-03-2015, 00:49
My understanding is that the EU central bank has negative interest rates. Should make credit cheap but will they be lending much for home buyers? The banks won't need to and can make more by investing on Wall Street. They are now charging big companies % just to keep money in banks.

fenrir
05-03-2015, 01:09
No it could have been. If he got the loan years ago but what about now? Is it still 2.6%?

Yes. My loan is based on a base percent + the current 6 month euribor rate, which is very low.

Fantastika
05-03-2015, 01:53
Courtesy of iJet:

UPDATE 8: Ukraine's National Bank raises benchmark interest rate to 30 percent. Delta Bank declared insolvent. Additional currency restrictions on businesses.
[B]

On March 27, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted an anti-crisis bill proposed by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to secure an international financial aid package. Ahead of the March 11 vote, then-acting Prime Minister Yatsenyuk told Parliament that it had "no other choice but to accept the IMF offer," as the country's fiscal gap in 2014 was projected to reach USD 26 billion. Ukraine needs approximately USD 35 billion over the next two years to avoid default.

Is this a :snoring: or a :doh: or a :rofl: ?

...one year ago? two years ago?... Yanukovich was president and had the same one-sided "choice," (with an additional option, to get bailout from Russia). Y choose the gift from Russia, not the loan from the EU. For not "choosing" the EU "offer" (kind of like the Godfather, "we make them an offer they can't refuse") Yanukovich was hounded from office.

But now Yats is in charge, he is so much more smarter, and he is about to do the same thing that Yanukovich refused to do - rather than accept a free bailout from Russia, he will imprison his country behind the bars of massive debt, with distinct possibility of bankruptcy, and definite reality of lowered living standards for foreseeable future.

Yats should take the Yogi Berra "Logic 101" course.

Fantastika
05-03-2015, 01:55
Fantastika, you absolutely MUST derail this thread?:)

What? You don't like ice cream?

bydand
05-03-2015, 08:57
The banks won't need to and can make more by investing on Wall Street.

OMG Wally! In another thread you predicted America (I assume that includes Wall Street) will crash within the year! Shouldn't they be buying gold?:sick:

Uncle Wally
05-03-2015, 10:58
OMG Wally! In another thread you predicted America (I assume that includes Wall Street) will crash within the year! Shouldn't they be buying gold?:sick:


No you shouldn't you should sell all your gold right now. Go and do it today!

bydand
05-03-2015, 11:20
No you shouldn't you should sell all your gold right now. Go and do it today!

No way! I like my teeth!

Russian Lad
05-03-2015, 11:32
Originally Posted by Uncle Wally View Post
No you shouldn't you should sell all your gold right now. Go and do it today!
No way! I like my teeth!

Wonder if Wally has sold his golden teeth when gold prices were high. He seems to possess a vibrant entrepreneur spirit.:eh:

Uncle Wally
05-03-2015, 12:40
Wonder if Wally has sold his golden teeth when gold prices were high. He seems to possess a vibrant entrepreneur spirit.:eh:



No I have no gold teeth. Never liked the look of it.

tonytony
05-03-2015, 17:32
Not all Russians do that. The Federal State Statistics Service, Rosstat, certainly does a bit more than that.

In January, overall inflation was at 15% and food inflation was 20.7% year on year. The cost of fruit and vegetables has increased by 40.7% in a year. But booze hasn't done so badly as alcohol is only up by 14%.

Also, just from December to January prices have risen by 3.9% in just one month.

http://www.gks.ru/bgd/free/b04_03/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d05/22.htm

Unless there are comparable wage rises then a lot of people in Russia are going to be tightening their belts this year and there will be a lot less discretionary spending.



Things aren't really getting any better as inflation is still increasing. Figures for February show it's gone up to 16.7% year on year with food inflation at 23.3%.

Prices have gone up by 2.2% just in the one month of February:-

http://www.gks.ru/bgd/free/b04_03/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d05/42.htm


It looks as though the price increases from the fall of the rouble are still working their way through the Russian economy. I hate to think what the inflation rate will be like come the summer if it carries on at this rate.

Armoured
05-03-2015, 18:09
It looks as though the price increases from the fall of the rouble are still working their way through the Russian economy. I hate to think what the inflation rate will be like come the summer if it carries on at this rate.

I agree it's likely to be high and remain high for a while.

However it's actually _not_ whether it 'carries on' (although depends what you mean by that), but whether it accelerates. And to a large degree, this depends on what the Central Bank (and government) does.

Based on the _relatively_ tight monetary/fiscal policy right now - which are both basically trying to slow things - I expect inflation will start to slow considerably. This would effectively be a one-off shock to prices due to the ruble's fall (which will still take time to work its way through an economy as large as Russia's).

There's a lot of factors but the two key points I'd look at: whether wages keep pace with the ruble collapse (so far, not even close); and whether companies (and government) are able to pass on price increases fully or have to absorb the difference - lower margins (so far, not even close).

Some stuff - pure imported goods, like, say, cameras - will just get fully repriced over time, just lower turnover. So it's important to look at things that are purely or partly produced here. Also whether government tries to reprice quickly things like fees, taxes, utilities, etc to a pre-crash 'dollar equivalent.'

[Keep in mind: I don't think any of this is particularly good news for most Russians - it still represents a big hit to consumption and living standards. But if inflation 'peaks' in the next few months and then declines, it means Russia has avoided the inflationary spiral. Note to figure this out means getting into the thick messy grass of comparing year-on-year and weekly/monthly inflation figures, which is a total brain destroyer.]

tonytony
05-03-2015, 19:04
I agree it's likely to be high and remain high for a while.

However it's actually _not_ whether it 'carries on' (although depends what you mean by that), but whether it accelerates.



Sorry, you're right, I didn't express myself very clearly. I did mean if it carries on accelerating.