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Suuryaa
25-01-2016, 19:47
What you are saying is clear-cut anarchism, 100%. Admit that you are an anarchist and it will be easier for us to understand each other.

My position is a position of a citizen who realizes she's not a kindergarten child and invests her energy, time, and effort in her country.

Russian Lad
25-01-2016, 19:57
My position is a position of a citizen who realizes she's not a kindergarten child and invests her energy, time, and effort in her country.

Thank you for repeating it, but I have read it already. It doesn't exclude what you quoted though - every anarchist loves his/her country too and wants to invest his/her energy, time and effort into it. And just like you, an anarchist dismisses any role of central/governing bodies as unimportant. So, you talk like an anarchist, you sound like an anarchist, maybe you are an anarchist?:)

Judge
25-01-2016, 20:04
Good news for local suppliers. ...


McDonald's plans to open more than 60 restaurants in Russia in 2016, increasing the pace of expansion from last year, after its focus on local suppliers and affordable menus has proved successful in an economic crisis.
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-mcdonalds-to-open-more-than-60-restaurants-in-russia-in-2016-2016-1

Judge
25-01-2016, 20:16
Well, if they like skiing and skating... :)

And they don't like the sweltering heat and 10000s of tourists in the summer months and freezing cold houses in the winter, which cost a fortune to heat up. ..:cold:

Russian Lad
25-01-2016, 20:27
Originally Posted by Suuryaa View Post
Well, if they like skiing and skating...
And they don't like the sweltering heat and 10000s of tourists in the summer months and freezing cold houses in the winter, which cost a fortune to heat up. ..

Right. Besides the freezing temperatures, you both should mention cheap vodka and cheap cigs - ideally suitable for extreme tourism. We are not talking about tourists here though, we are talking about permanent living after purchasing property. Prices are way cheaper, say, in Mongolia or in Nigeria, but I don't see them as favorite global destinations. So, it is just empty rhetorics on your part.

Suuryaa
25-01-2016, 21:46
Thank you for repeating it, but I have read it already. It doesn't exclude what you quoted though - every anarchist loves his/her country too and wants to invest his/her energy, time and effort into it. And just like you, an anarchist dismisses any role of central/governing bodies as unimportant.

Why, I don't dismiss their role. Of course, they are principal in managing the country. But I don't consider them to be magicians or some kind of vicars of God bearing sole responsibility. I'm also a citizen of this country, and I can and do make a difference. I don't look up to them, but rather regard them as part of the team.

Suuryaa
25-01-2016, 21:51
And they don't like the sweltering heat and 10000s of tourists in the summer months and freezing cold houses in the winter, which cost a fortune to heat up. ..:cold:

But they aren't as hardy as us :D.

Uncle Wally
25-01-2016, 22:06
Thank you for repeating it, but I have read it already. It doesn't exclude what you quoted though - every anarchist loves his/her country too and wants to invest his/her energy, time and effort into it. And just like you, an anarchist dismisses any role of central/governing bodies as unimportant. So, you talk like an anarchist, you sound like an anarchist, maybe you are an anarchist?:)



So the great US president John Kennedy was an anarchist to when he said " Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". This is what I think she means. You can't get over your communist upbringing which I feel you got all wrong. You see she is simply saying if you want people to smile more start by smiling more yourself. Very simple maybe too simple for your highly educated mind. In a democracy everyone is part of the government, and must do his or her fair share. The most important thing is to be active in your community and government.

Change starts with you.

Suuryaa
25-01-2016, 22:24
she is simply saying if you want people to smile more start by smiling more yourself. In a democracy everyone is part of the government, and must do his or her fair share. The most important thing is to be active in your community and government.

Change starts with you.

Thank you, Wally, you expressed my ideas in simple and concise words :). Exactly so, be the change that you wish to see in the world. :)

Russian Lad
25-01-2016, 22:35
Why, I don't dismiss their role. Of course, they are principal in managing the country. But I don't consider them to be magicians or some kind of vicars of God bearing sole responsibility. I'm also a citizen of this country, and I can and do make a difference. I don't look up to them, but rather regard them as part of the team.

But you refuse to hold them accountable it seems, at least the ones you like, despite them ruining your country's economy. What is your fixation on the magicians about? No one claims they are. But they set up laws we live by, and even you, for instance, want to hold Kudrin accountable. I can answer to you in kind - why do you blame Kudrin, maybe it was all your fault and you haven't been responsible enough? You simply refuse to apply ABC, elementary logic. Why?


" Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country".

He didn't mean by that that he refuses to be held accountable for anything while he is in power, did he? I have already said that yes, we are responsible for our own actions and failures, but it doesn't mean we should give cart-blanche to the president/the government and refuse to hold them accountable to us. There should be a middle ground for this, because on one extremity of the spectrum there is anarchy, on the other - dictatorship/autarchy. And it is kindergarten if one fails to understand this, because it is as simple as 2x2=4.
So, Wally, since you also claim we should not demand anything from the leaders, why do you keep blaming Obama for anything? Me, I believe it is your right to blame him for anything you deem fit, as an American, but all of a sudden you have made a U-turn that strips you of this right completely. So, I hope then to never hear from you "Obama this, Obama that, bankers bad, blah-blah-blah". Correct?:) Now we all know that whatever negative happens/being done in the US it is your own fault, right?

Uncle Wally
25-01-2016, 23:09
Thank you, Wally, you expressed my ideas in simple and concise words :). Exactly so, be the change that you wish to see in the world. :)


You're welcome �� I have felt the same way for many years now and could recognize what you were trying to say. It is the truth.

Fantastika
26-01-2016, 00:56
What you are saying is clear-cut anarchism, 100%. Admit that you are an anarchist and it will be easier for us to understand each other. I mean, you seem to dismiss any role of central/governing bodies in our daily life by claiming we cannot/should not blame "big bosses" for anything. Also, thus you are de facto giving them cart-blanche and free them from any accountability whatsoever. Very convenient for them and their associates, very harmful to the rest of us. The truth is always somewhere in the middle, I suggested this middle ground but you didn't like it, it seems. Tant pis, because your ideas are not sustainable, history has proven it many times here in Russia. You are treading on a very thin ice and I hear it cracking already, rather loudly.

Suuryaa is an "anarchist"? :rofl:

And Obama loves America, and Putin hates Russia? :rofl:

Are we on the same planet?

Don't you ever feel responsible for something more than yourself? For example, when you go to McDonalds, do you discard your wrappers on the ground, or out the car window, or into the trash bin? In the bin, probably, so you are taking responsibility for your environment. In the same manner, people take responsibility for their neighborhoods, their communities, their states, the nations, etc. Being married makes one responsible for the success (financial and otherwise) of the family. Life goes much smoother and the person is much happier when he/she interacts with and places consideration on, all the dynamics, not just oneself.

Russian Lad
26-01-2016, 01:05
Suuryaa is an "anarchist"? :rofl:

And Obama loves America, and Putin hates Russia? :rofl:

Are we on the same planet? Maybe you're just on a Solar System tourist visa, that would explain it.


I would say Putin is actually indifferent towards Russia. I think he has strong positive emotions only to money and to power and strong negative emotions to those who stand between him and more money+more power. Everything else is rhetorics for simpletons and useful idiots who help him obtain more money and more power. In a sense, I understand him perfectly well.

Judge
26-01-2016, 07:02
We are not talking about tourists here though, we are talking about permanent living after purchasing property.

Yes I know, you misunderstood, when you're living there, you get to spend the summer months with 10000s of tourists .


So, it is just empty rhetorics on your part.

Of course, you know best, you're also an expert on the med lifestyle , you spent six months there ,like you did in the US..:tv:

Suuryaa
26-01-2016, 10:52
But you refuse to hold them accountable it seems, at least the ones you like, despite them ruining your country's economy.

Of course, I hold all of them accountable. My idea of a leader is that he must care about his country as much as a father cares about his family.


I can answer to you in kind - why do you blame Kudrin, maybe it was all your fault and you haven't been responsible enough? You simply refuse to apply ABC, elementary logic. Why?

Now you get the idea! Yes, I feel responsible for the country's failures. Not fault, though, but responsibility. Fault rouses feeling of guilt, and I prefer responsibility, when you ask yourself, what can I do about it, how can I contribute?

Fantastika
26-01-2016, 12:34
I would say Putin is actually indifferent towards Russia. I think he has strong positive emotions only to money and to power and strong negative emotions to those who stand between him and more money+more power. Everything else is rhetorics for simpletons and useful idiots who help him obtain more money and more power. In a sense, I understand him perfectly well.

I don't want to engage in a pointless or fruitless discussion of how pathological your dislike of VVP or the Russian government/system is.

All I want to do is say that you do support your government, despite your denials - even the the simple of act of placing that McDonald's wrapper in a trash can instead of throwing it into the street shows that you recognize and accept some degree of civic responsibility, in this case to your community/city and to your environment.

To describe someone who recognizes and engages in this ethical process as an "anarchist" while proclaiming yourself as occupying "middle ground" is...strange. :)

Fantastika
26-01-2016, 12:40
And they don't like the sweltering heat and 10000s of tourists in the summer months and freezing cold houses in the winter, which cost a fortune to heat up...:cold:


Right. Besides the freezing temperatures, you both should mention cheap vodka and cheap cigs - ideally suitable for extreme tourism. We are not talking about tourists here though, we are talking about permanent living after purchasing property. Prices are way cheaper, say, in Mongolia or in Nigeria, but I don't see them as favorite global destinations. So, it is just empty rhetorics on your part.

Who needs/wants to live there? Not me. :) I was only thinking of investment opportunity - if you can pay a mortgage of $500/month and rent it for $1000/month...or if you can pay $30k for it now, and when the ruble comes back down from high orbit, sell it for $60k...

Uncle Wally
26-01-2016, 16:00
So, Wally, since you also claim we should not demand anything from the leaders, why do you keep blaming Obama for anything? Me, I believe it is your right to blame him for anything you deem fit, as an American, but all of a sudden you have made a U-turn that strips you of this right completely. So, I hope then to never hear from you "Obama this, Obama that, bankers bad, blah-blah-blah". Correct?:) Now we all know that whatever negative happens/being done in the US it is your own fault, right?



Yes I do take some of the blame for what's happened in the US and what the US does around the world and no I don't blame Obama for everything, that's fantasticka.

You know your "negative" and my negative are two different things. You want one country, one government to take over and rule the whole world. I think that would be the greatest tragedy in the history of man.

Russian Lad
26-01-2016, 16:28
I don't plan to waste my valuable time on useless discussions. You are losing, kvas patriots - that's the only thing that really matters. You are being brought to your knees - that's where you belong.:) A very bad day on the Chinese stock exchange - hope the global oil consumption sees a new low and the oil prices drop further. I want to see USD20 per barrel. Then maybe even 10.

Armoured
26-01-2016, 16:55
Who needs/wants to live there? Not me. :) I was only thinking of investment opportunity - if you can pay a mortgage of $500/month and rent it for $1000/month...or if you can pay $30k for it now, and when the ruble comes back down from high orbit, sell it for $60k...

Mortgage rates here run ~14%, a guess at gross rental yield (yearly rent / market price) might be 4%.

So as a rough calc, you'd have to put down 70% of the purchase price to have the rent cover the interest. (With no paying down of the mortgage).

Granted, if rents rose over time with inflation, you'd soon have more income than needed to cover the mortgage nut. (But conversely, even with 40% down payment, you'd be paying as much each year to pay off the mortgage as you received in rent, and it would take five years for rent to catch up enough to pay the mortgage).

This 'buy so you can let your tenant pay your mortgage' deal would be _really_ hard to make work - in Moscow at least. Easy to say, bloody hard to do in current market.

Fantastika
26-01-2016, 17:03
Mortgage rates here run ~14%, a guess at gross rental yield (yearly rent / market price) might be 4%.

So as a rough calc, you'd have to put down 70% of the purchase price to have the rent cover the interest. (With no paying down of the mortgage).

Granted, if rents rose over time with inflation, you'd soon have more income than needed to cover the mortgage nut. (But conversely, even with 40% down payment, you'd be paying as much each year to pay off the mortgage as you received in rent, and it would take five years for rent to catch up enough to pay the mortgage).

This 'buy so you can let your tenant pay your mortgage' deal would be _really_ hard to make work - in Moscow at least. Easy to say, bloody hard to do in current market.

I wouldn't touch it unless the mortgage rate was under 7%, the "gross rental yield" (yearly rent / market price) was at least 10%, and the local greedy bureaucrats held property taxes to less than confiscatory.

Europe, West, has legislated itself into economic stagnation, and is now welcoming hordes of invaders. It would take more than a Donald Trump-style leader to pull itself out of the financial/social muck, and the establishment intelligentsia and their poodle-dog media despise, suppress and criminalize the actions of anyone who campaigns on change.

Armoured
26-01-2016, 17:19
Europe, West, has legislated itself into economic stagnation, and is now welcoming hordes of invaders. It would take more than a Donald Trump-style leader to pull itself out of the financial/social muck, and the establishment intelligentsia and their poodle-dog media despise, suppress and criminalize the actions of anyone who campaigns on change.

Does any of that have anything to do with Russia or the above posts, or is this now just your boilerplate signature block screed?

Fantastika
26-01-2016, 17:34
I don't plan to waste my valuable time on useless discussions.... You are losing, kvas patriots ....I want to see USD20 per barrel. Then maybe even 10.

It's "useless' because you ignore all relevant points. When I make a sensible/debatable point, you don't address it, you circumvent, evade and ignore. It's like trying to make conversation with a television.

Nobody knows what "Kvas paritot" is.

Oil at $20 will happen on the 33rd day of February, the Twelfth of Never, and when Buddhists celebrate Christmas. :)

FatAndy
26-01-2016, 17:52
Nobody knows what "Kvas paritot" is.
RL does. It's enough. :)

Russian Lad
26-01-2016, 17:57
RL does. It's enough. :)

Why, there is a clear definition of the term:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BC

29678

FatAndy
26-01-2016, 18:10
A typical most recent example of kvas patriotism - a clear case of mental illness as a side effect, imho:
The girl is nice, but the theme of t!t$ isn't disclosed ;)

Fantastika
26-01-2016, 18:15
I would say Putin is actually indifferent towards Russia. I think he has strong positive emotions only to money and to power and strong negative emotions to those who stand between him and more money+more power. Everything else is rhetorics for simpletons and useful idiots who help him obtain more money and more power. In a sense, I understand him perfectly well.

VVP is far more ethical as the leader of a country than Barry. If the definition of a country is "one language, one culture and one border" then Barry has wreaked havoc on America.

There is no border, hordes pour across it every day, and contribute to the economic malaise by going on welfare and taking jobs from natives. Barry not only opens the borders, but refuses to build fences, command the border patrool to do nothing, and prevents the police, at all levels, from sending anyone back home, even the criminals.

There is no common culture, Barry and his Progressives diss traditional American heritage and promote destructive alternatives.

There is no common language, and anyone who protests is labeled a "racist."

Does Putin decry the widespread use of Russian in Russia? Does he promote homosexuals and minorities at the expense of others? Does he promote women at the expense of men? Does he constantly complain about the inhumanity of Russia's successful citizens and force them to pay more taxes to support the unsuccessful? Does he open the border and welcome immigrants and pay them to sit in subsidized apartments and do nothing productive?

The attacks by the leading "lights" on US universities consist of burying anything that happened in America before 1865. The Founding fathers were nothing but a bunch of white racists, according to the intelligentsia. Does Putin dismiss the glory and tragedy, the history of Russia, as nothing but racism?

Obama decrees the import of 100,000's of hi-tech workers from India, etc., to benefit big companies like Facebook (who can pay them lower salaries), and replace native born US citizens - university-degreed engineers - who can then find employment only at places like McDonalds.

Does Vladimir Valdimirovich promote the import of 100,000's of hi-tech workers from India, etc., thereby forcing native-born Russians to work at Mickey D's?

VVP promotes unity, Obama promotes divisiveness. Which one is more ethical?

If you think living with Kvas patriots is bad, try living with no patriots.

FatAndy
26-01-2016, 18:21
VVP promotes unity, Obama promotes divisiveness.
Forget them. They don't have t!t$.

Russian Lad
26-01-2016, 18:24
but the theme of t!t$ isn't disclosed

Well, maybe you don't deserve to see nice tits?:)


Does Putin decry the widespread use of Russian in Russia?

No, you are perfectly correct about that, - on the contrary, the Russians are paying through their noses to Chechnya and Dagestan.

Uncle Wally
26-01-2016, 19:26
RL does. It's enough. :)



I don't even like kvas!

Uncle Wally
26-01-2016, 19:27
Well, maybe you don't deserve to see nice tits?:)



No, you are perfectly correct about that, - on the contrary, the Russians are paying through their noses to Chechnya and Dagestan.



Yeah its hard to out spend the US and Saudi Arabia.

Uncle Wally
26-01-2016, 19:34
Forget them. They don't have t!t$.



It's hard for people to see that when everything is so green $$$$$$.


Hard to see past your nose when they try to cover your eyes with their video lies.

Fantastika
26-01-2016, 23:52
Does any of that have anything to do with Russia or the above posts, or is this now just your boilerplate signature block screed?

I was just replying to your gloomy post about how it's impossible to make money on real estate in Europe.

Suuryaa
27-01-2016, 00:55
I don't plan to waste my valuable time on useless discussions.=I lost.

Judge
27-01-2016, 06:04
Lad, your favourite music moved here,
http://forum.expat.ru/showthread.php?270799-Jukebox-share-your-favorite-music-videos-part-II/page10

Armoured
27-01-2016, 11:52
I was just replying to your gloomy post about how it's impossible to make money on real estate in Europe.

My post had nothing to do with "Europe" - just Russia and Moscow in particular.

So ranting about the EU and Europe's problems is just irrelevant barking mad nonsense.

Fantastika
27-01-2016, 14:51
My post had nothing to do with "Europe" - just Russia and Moscow in particular.

My apologies, I thought you were posting mortgage rate/financial information about Southern Spain, because the prior post that you cited (my post) I was referring to both Southern Spain and Russian real estate.

Anyway, I don't trust your math, you have an agenda - "Everything is bad, and getting worse, in Russia".

In fact, I know someone from Texas who bought an apartment, in another Russian city, and sold it a year later, doubling his money.

Armoured
27-01-2016, 15:03
Anyway, I don't trust your math, you have an agenda - "Everything is bad, and getting worse, in Russia".

Feel free to do your own math or double-check. But an accusation about agenda without a factual response is silly.

There was nothing in that post with an agenda.

Fantastika
27-01-2016, 15:17
Feel free to do your own math or double-check. But an accusation about agenda without a factual response is silly.

There was nothing in that post with an agenda.

You mean...you don't explicitly state your agenda in all your posts? :rofl:

Armoured
27-01-2016, 15:22
You mean...you don't explicitly state your agenda in all your posts? :rofl:

Unlike some, no.

Russian Lad
27-01-2016, 19:04
Everything is bad, and getting worse, in Russia

So, agendas and axes to grind aside, you genuinely believe it is getting any better here in Russia? In what areas except for the snow accumulation rates?

FatAndy
27-01-2016, 19:26
:emote_popcorn:

Judge
28-01-2016, 09:51
Moscow weather is as volatile as the Ruble. ..

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 13:31
So, agendas and axes to grind aside, you genuinely believe it is getting any better here in Russia? In what areas except for the snow accumulation rates?

Compare the world of 150 years ago and today.

In 1870, city streets stank of horse manure, communication was by letter and took weeks, travel was in dangerous (fire) trains. Sickness was rampant and there were few cures. Life was short and brutal. And this was in the "advanced" part of the planet.

Today, the only thing we have to worry about is that mankind's spiritual development hasn't kept pace with his technological advancement.

(And shopping for a new pair of red shoes... :))


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4d7Wp9kKjA

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 15:23
Compare the world of 150 years ago and today.

In 1870, city streets stank of horse manure, communication was by letter and took weeks, travel was in dangerous (fire) trains. Sickness was rampant and there were few cures. Life was short and brutal. And this was in the "advanced" part of the planet.

Today, the only thing we have to worry about is that mankind's spiritual development hasn't kept pace with his technological advancement.


That's the best answer you kvas patriots can come up with? Splendid. Ok, I have a cool pic for you:

29679

FatAndy
28-01-2016, 16:02
I have a cool pic for you:
I understand that for the most of the herd of so called poposition intellectuals MVD and FSB officers don't differ, but you, comrade? ;)

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 16:46
I understand that for the most of the herd of so called poposition intellectuals MVD and FSB officers don't differ, but you, comrade? ;)

Did I claim it was mvd or fsb? For the sake of humor, it doesn't really matter - for all I care, it can even be a kindergarten inspector:). What has caused your agitation, comrade? You cannot envy in silence?:)

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 16:52
That's the best answer you kvas patriots can come up with? Splendid. Ok, I have a cool pic for you:

29679

I don't get it, the 2nd guy says "that option is disabled" what's the first guy say?

My advice is to sell your dollars and buy rubbles before they go back down to 26. :)

AstarD
28-01-2016, 17:01
The first guy says: "Is that guy always going to be here?" The second guy replies: "Yes, it's an option. One that can't be turned off."

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 17:07
I don't get it, the 2nd guy says "that option is disabled" what's the first guy say?

My advice is to sell your dollars and buy rubbles before they go back down to 26. :)

- Is this guy on a constant basis here? - Yes, it is an option that you cannot turn off.
What will make it go to 26, your will power?

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 17:07
That's the best answer you kvas patriots can come up with? Splendid. Ok, I have a cool pic for you:


You get kudos for being cynical and downbeat, I get nothing for being upbeat and insightful. What's wrong with this picture? My participation in it, that's what.

The worm has turned, I think I'll short the dollar... :)

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 17:16
- Is this guy on a constant basis here? - Yes, it is an option that you cannot turn off.
What will make it go to 26, your will power?

A downtown St. Pete flat costs $30k, a downtown NYC flat costs $600,000? What's wrong with this picture?

US economy is skating on thin ice, and Spring is fast approaching...Obama's and the establishment elites' parting gift to America is huge increases in the national debt, stretching into the next generation, unless Trump or some other real reformer arrives to untangle this mess. $20 trillion in debt? How high can one make a house of cards (paper money) before just a slight wind of change blows it down?

AstarD
28-01-2016, 17:23
New York is the financial center of the world. St. Petersburg is a nice town.

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 17:42
A downtown St. Pete flat costs $30k, a downtown NYC flat costs $600,000? What's wrong with this picture?

What is wrong with this picture? Maybe the dump you take such info from? A good downtown apartment in Sait Pete may cost up to a few million USD. Here, a very modest 3 rooms apartment on the Nevsky, around 600K dollars: https://www.avito.ru/sankt-peterburg/kvartiry/3-k_kvartira_152_m_45_et._587315956
A better 7 rooms aparment - almost two million USD: https://www.avito.ru/sankt-peterburg/kvartiry/7-k_kvartira_218_m_26_et._654091085

To sum it up - you don't understand basic Russian, you don't understand anything about the Russian real estate (and, I assume, the Russian economics), you are not in Russia, so, what are you doing here on the forum? Cursing Obama? It would be way more logical to do it on an American forum.

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 18:07
New York is the financial center of the world. St. Petersburg is a nice town.

So, a rural Kansas house costs $125,000, a rural Russian house costs $5k. Care to explain that disparity?

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 18:15
What is wrong with this picture? Maybe the dump you take such info from? A good downtown apartment in Sait Pete may cost up to a few million USD. Here, a very modest 3 rooms apartment on the Nevsky, around 600K dollars: https://www.avito.ru/sankt-peterburg/kvartiry/3-k_kvartira_152_m_45_et._587315956
A better 7 rooms aparment - almost two million USD: https://www.avito.ru/sankt-peterburg/kvartiry/7-k_kvartira_218_m_26_et._654091085

To sum it up - you don't understand basic Russian, you don't understand anything about the Russian real estate (and, I assume, the Russian economics), you are not in Russia, so, what are you doing here on the forum? Cursing Obama? It would be way more logical to do it on an American forum.

.....


Well, the cheapest one room apartment cost less than 10K dollars in Saint Pete in 1998. Right now the cheapest one is around 30K dollars. So, there is a room for improvement.

So which one is it? $30k or $2 Million? :rofl:

Make up my mind for me. :) You're absolutely right, I DON'T understand basic Russian, at least the Leningrad dialect. :)

Uncle Wally
28-01-2016, 18:25
You people don't want to think about the system much. A system built on inflation and growth. A system that favor the aggressive and destructive. Of course it was built by the rich who value these treats. It's a dead end for humanity.

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 18:41
So which one is it? $30k or $2 Million?

Make up my mind for me.

I said the minimum (aka absolute minimum for a crappy one room apartment somewhere on the outskirts of the city) cost is around USD 30K. What made you decide you can buy a decent apartment downtown for this - I have no idea, you tell us.

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 18:52
I said the minimum (aka absolute minimum for a crappy one room apartment somewhere on the outskirts of the city) cost is around USD 30K. What made you decide you can buy a decent apartment downtown for this - I have no idea, you tell us.

Why don't you explain - why, if Russia is in such economic misery, flat owners are able to command $millions for a flat?

If everyone is in such economic dire straits in Russia, why is it demand for flats has pushed their price into the stratosphere? Where is this demand coming from? Poor people? :rofl:

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 18:58
Why don't you explain - why, if Russia is in such economic misery, flat owners are able to command $millions for a flat?

If everyone is in such economic dire straits in Russia, why is it demand for flats has pushed their price into the stratosphere? Where is this demand coming from? Poor people?

You haven't answered my question. As to the real estate, downtown apartments prices have fallen by 35%, they will keep falling. Aparments even in Nigeria cost money, downtown - more so, not sure why it surprises you. And not everyone is in a dire economic state here, the aparatchiks are doing just fine.

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 19:44
You haven't answered my question. As to the real estate, downtown apartments prices have fallen by 35%, they will keep falling. Aparments even in Nigeria cost money, downtown - more so, not sure why it surprises you. And not everyone is in a dire economic state here, the aparatchiks are doing just fine.

Now you want me to answer your questions, when you rarely, even tangentially, address mine? :rofl:

I answered your question "You really believe things are getting better in Russia" with the implied answer that "things are getting better all over the world":

In 1870, city streets stank of horse manure, communication was by letter and took weeks, travel was in dangerous (fire) trains. Sickness was rampant and there were few cures. Life was short and brutal. And this was in the "advanced" part of the planet.

Today, the only thing we have to worry about is that mankind's spiritual development hasn't kept pace with his technological advancement.

To which you non-replied with 1984-type humor.

All of your comments about real estate prices (they're very low, they're very high) are selected and engineered to "prove" everything economic in Russland is in tumult and turmoil, the whole country is about to be swirled up in a whirlpool of planet-wide dimension.

Anyway, looks like the rubble is rising up out of the dumpster, like an oil-slicked Phoenix, so maybe you should head on down to the bank and cash in, instead of hoarding your $ and Euros. :)

Uncle Wally
28-01-2016, 19:51
That's the FED. Rates unchanged so the free money people are buying gold. The party is over.

Fantastika
28-01-2016, 20:22
That's the FED. Rates unchanged so the free money people are buying gold. The party is over.

I've been watching gold and silver, they've been going up for the past week or two, but today, Gold is down $10.

Yandex and Gazprom are both up 30% in the past week, sorry RL... :)

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 21:17
Anyway, looks like the rubble is rising up out of the dumpster

Even if we forget that Euro cost less than 40 rubles 2 years ago, in December it fluctuated from 70 to 79, in January it is fluctuating from 83 to 90 and you call this process "rising out of the dumpster"??? How should I call your analytical skills? I mean, even a dumb schoolboy can do better. Ok, let's call them mediocre, I don't want to offend you. :loser:

Uncle Wally
28-01-2016, 21:32
You also have to look at what the Euro can buy in Europe. What the ruble can buy in Russia. I know you like to simplify things to make your position look the best but I am wondering if it's just the dollar /euro falling and the ruble falling even more because of people like you.

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 21:40
the ruble falling even more because of people like you.

Of course I am the one to blame for Russia's economic failures, now you have hit the jackpot.:) I was against the current policies, - for one, if people like me were listened to there would be no Western sanctions. Not to mention that I would have reformed the economy like ten years ago. But who listens to this idiot Russian Lad?:)


You also have to look at what the Euro can buy in Europe.

Some food items are probably cheaper here, at least meat, for instance. Soluble coffee and quite many other foodstuffs cost about the same. Bear in mind that the most essential food prices have been frozen in Russia - by a government decree, i.e. they don't reflect the market anymore - it is yet another economic mine, ticking and waiting for its time, in the framework of the Russian economy.
You want to compare only the prices? Why not compare salaries and pensions, say, in Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway and here? The difference is nothing short of mind-blowing and shocking.

Uncle Wally
28-01-2016, 22:10
I am saying that if people like you didn't go out and buy Euros or dollars everytime something seems like it was going to go wrong the ruble would be stronger. Have you every thought that outside forces are attacking the ruble? You know they can.

Uncle Wally
28-01-2016, 22:11
For me I don't believe much is real in this world economy. It is so easily manipulated.

fenrir
28-01-2016, 22:32
You also have to look at what the Euro can buy in Europe. What the ruble can buy in Russia. I know you like to simplify things to make your position look the best but I am wondering if it's just the dollar /euro falling and the ruble falling even more because of people like you.

My euro buys more this year than last. Thanks to this sanctions thing, dairy products especially are still very low. Beer prices are down and gas is nearly half what it was. More disposable income. What's not to like about it?

Russian Lad
28-01-2016, 23:15
My euro buys more this year than last. Thanks to this sanctions thing, dairy products especially are still very low. Beer prices are down and gas is nearly half what it was. More disposable income. What's not to like about it?

So, Wally, based on this we can clearly see that someone inside Russia seems to be helping the Europeans economically a lot at the expense of ordinary Russians. Someone very, very powerful. You must investigate.

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 00:18
...You want to compare only the prices? Why not compare salaries and pensions, say, in Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway and here? The difference is nothing short of mind-blowing and shocking.

That dog don't hunt. It don't even bark very loudly. It kind of whimpers, whines and leaves a yellow message on your dacha flora. :)

The average family in Norway has a car, a house or flat, bad postal service, a big-screen TV, a couple of kids, and everyone has a cell-phone.
The average family in Russia has a car, a house or flat, bad postal service, a big-screen TV, a couple of kids, and everyone has a cell-phone.

So where's this "mind-blowing and shocking" difference? :rofl:

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 00:28
...Thanks to this sanctions thing, dairy products especially are still very low. ...

Less trade means lower prices? I'm confusticated...

Russian Lad
29-01-2016, 01:10
So where's this "mind-blowing and shocking" difference?

Average salary in Norway - 2785 euro.
Average salary in Russia - 335 euro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Is everything in Russia eight times cheaper? Hell, even Norwegian prisons look nicer than regular Russian blocks of apartments. So, I don't understand what you are talking about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgujwijPwxo

Russian Lad
29-01-2016, 01:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0wHVyNx5nw

FatAndy
29-01-2016, 01:34
Less trade means lower prices? I'm confusticated...
On the territory called "Baltic countries" - yes. Will see, how long the fun will continue. And, don't forget about cheap homemade cider.
L'alla as sayah. ;)

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 02:15
Average salary in Norway - 2785 euro.
Average salary in Russia - 335 euro.

Is everything in Russia eight times cheaper? Hell, even Norwegian prisons look nicer than regular Russian blocks of apartments. So, I don't understand what you are talking about.

Typical RL obfuscation. I said the typical family in Russia has the same amenities - flat/house, car, big screen TV, bad postal service, cell-phone - as the typical family in Norge, and since you have no reply to that, you deftly switch the topic to average salaries, as measured in dollars, at today's exchange rates. As if that measure provides conclusive proof of comparative economic well-being.

Average tax burden in Norway - 1000

Average tax burden in Russia - 30

(Norwegians pay those high taxes to support luxury prisons with big-screen TV's and smart-phones.)

Russian Lad
29-01-2016, 03:14
Typical RL obfuscation. I said the typical family in Russia has the same amenities - flat/house, car, big screen TV, bad postal service, cell-phone - as the typical family in Norge, and since you have no reply to that, you deftly switch the topic to average salaries, as measured in dollars, at today's exchange rates. As if that measure provides conclusive proof of comparative economic well-being.

Average tax burden in Norway - 1000

Average tax burden in Russia - 30

(Norwegians pay those high taxes to support luxury prisons with big-screen TV's and smart-phones.)


All you can come up is a blah-blah-blah about "typical", while I offer specific proven numbers. Can you refute them? Can you prove everything is eight times more expensive in Norway, especially such things as foreign-made cars, travel abroad and so forth? For whom will it be more comfortable to visit another country - for a Russian to go to Norway or for a Norwegian to go to Russia, from the financial standpoint? Other than that, I can claim a typical Russian family has everything that a typical Nigerian family has - the average salary in Nigeria is 290 dollars per month, almost the same as in Russia, so at least I have reasonable numbers to show to you to prove my point. You just do empty talk and engage in demagoguery.


at today's exchange rates

Yes, I live today and I compare at today's rates. Why is that a problem? Why on earth should I use some non-existent rates from the past??????


Average tax burden in Norway - 1000

Average tax burden in Russia - 30

(Norwegians pay those high taxes to support luxury prisons with big-screen TV's and smart-phones.)

Their taxes may be higher, but the state gives back a lot to them in the form of roads, education, healthcare and yes, nice prisons for the bad guys who get a chance to become good guys again.

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 04:10
...You just do empty talk and engage in demagoguery.
"Demagoguery"? Wow, I feel empowered. :)

I prefer to believe what my eyes tell me, not what some exchange-rate-altered and politically-managed statistics "prove".

So it's not true that a typical family in Russia has a car, a flat, a TV, a smartphone? Just like the typical family in Norway, the typical family in USA and the typical family in Japan, Korea, and dozens of other countries, not necessarily Nigeria? You are not able to answer this simple question?

I was wondering why all the big department stores in Russia I visited had acres of big-screen TV's refrigerators, washing machines, etc., for sale. Who is buying this stuff? Why there were so many cars that it took an hour to go a mile during rush hour, and it took an eternity to get anywhere on the tramvei, because the multitudes of cars kept driving in front of it? Who is driving these cars? I suppose all those people driving new cars and watching their big-screen TV's are all drowning in poverty.

Exchange rates pervert the equation, not normalize it. A loaf of bread costs 10 rubles in Russia, and costs 200 in USA? That's absurd. A pack of Marlboros costs a Russian $1, and a New Yorker $15? Absurd. Today's exchange rates yield disinformative nonsense, not reality.

Time for me to stop being a foil for your demagoguery. Especially since you don't address my points. You change the subject with every post - it is like trying to run around and stomp on a bubble in a new carpet - every time you put down your foot on it, it pops up somewhere else.

Russian Lad
29-01-2016, 04:20
"Demagoguery"? Wow, I feel empowered. :)

I prefer to believe what my eyes tell me, not what some exchange-rate-altered and politically-managed statistics "prove".

So it's not true that a typical family in Russia has a car, a flat, a TV, a smartphone? Just like the typical family in Norway, the typical family in USA and the typical family in Japan, Korea, and dozens of other countries, not necessarily Nigeria? You are not able to answer this simple question?

I was wondering why all the big department stores in Russia I visited had acres of big-screen TV's refrigerators, washing machines, etc., for sale. Who is buying this stuff? Why there were so many cars that it took an hour to go a mile during rush hour, and it took an eternity to get anywhere on the tramvei, because the multitudes of cars kept driving in front of it? Who is driving these cars? I suppose all those people driving new cars and watching their big-screen TV's are all drowning in poverty.

Exchange rates pervert the equation, not normalize it. A loaf of bread costs 10 rubles in Russia, and costs 200 in USA? That's absurd. A pack of Marlboros costs a Russian $1, and a New Yorker $15? Absurd. Today's exchange rates yield disinformative nonsense, not reality.

Time for me to stop being a foil for your demagoguery. Especially since you don't address my points. You change the subject with every post - it is like trying to run around and stomp on a bubble in a new carpet - every time you put down your foot on it, it pops up somewhere else.

You are not getting it. As to bread - it costs 50 rubles, good one - even more. A pack of Marlboro, really shitty in comparison with the American Marlboro - 105 rubles (USD 1.36). Useless conversation, really. What is funny, you are teaching from your US home a Russian living in Russia (in English, because you don't know Russian) about the life in Russia. This is beyond ridiculous or preposterous, this is insane. Once again, you would do a much better job cursing Obama on an American forum. Here you just sound funny and out of your depth.
What is your point that I should address? That Russians are as well-to-do as the Norwegians or the Americans because there are goods available in stores? It is like claiming a 100 y.o. dedushka must be having sex with young, nubile girls every day because condoms are available in stores - the same level of logic.

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 05:08
...It is like claiming a 100 y.o. dedushka must be having sex with young, nubile girls every day because condoms are available in stores - the same level of logic.

You still haven't admitted that the typical family in Russia has a flat, TV, a car, food on the table, a cell-phone, the same things that the typical Western family enjoys.

You are right, this is a useless conversation. It's not even a conversation, it's like trying to talk to a DVD player.

Uncle Wally
29-01-2016, 08:21
I wonder will anyone point out to RL that Marlboro are $16 a pack in NYC and there are cigarettes that you can still get for 50 rubles a pack in Moscow. Bread what $2 for crappy bread because they don't really have good bread in the states. In Moscow the poor can buy a loaf of bread for 11 rubles.


And yes most if not every Russian has a home. May not be the best but there is no need for everyone to borrow large amounts of money just to own a home and no way for anyone to take that home from you. I think it is still against the law to make people homeless but that is not true in America. Just try owing taxes to the government, they have no problem taking your home and making you homeless over $1000.

Nobbynumbnuts
29-01-2016, 09:09
Per Capita income: USA $54,629 Russian Federation $23, 744 Comparing cigarette prices is silly. Western governments have increased cigarette prices substantially to encourage people to quit and improve overall health. As an example of health in Russia, keeping cigarettes cheap is one reason why an average Bangladeshi lives longer than a Russian! :winking:
Alcohol is cheaper in Russia too, i suppose, in reality that's a good thing too?

The overall standard of living in the USA is far higher than in Russia..

Uncle Wally
29-01-2016, 10:21
Not lately with 63% of people living pay check to pay check. Worker participation is down and 50 million people are on food stamps. Keep believing the lies though the US doesn't have much longer to go, post election not much more.

Russian Lad
29-01-2016, 12:43
Russian Federation $23, 744

That's info from probably like 2-3 years ago, at the current rate it is 146K rubles per month. Hardly feasible these days. My mother's salary is 30K rubles, my father's - 35K rubles, both have higher education. Me, when I begin looking for translator vacancies, I can only hope for something between 20K and 50K per month:
http://spb.hh.ru/search/vacancy?text=%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BA&area=2


Not lately with 63% of people living pay check to pay check. Worker participation is down and 50 million people are on food stamps. Keep believing the lies though the US doesn't have much longer to go, post election not much more.

I haven't been able to find employment since 2008. Where can I apply for foodstamps here in Russia?

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 13:09
I wonder will anyone point out to RL that Marlboro are $16 a pack in NYC and there are cigarettes that you can still get for 50 rubles a pack in Moscow. Bread what $2 for crappy bread because they don't really have good bread in the states. In Moscow the poor can buy a loaf of bread for 11 rubles.

That's what I thought. I haven't been to Russia for 6 years, but I remember getting Marlboros for 50 rubbles and going to the "bread van" and getting хлеб, or булочка, and I can't think of the name for the flat bread (fleisch?), it's similar to the flat bread Mexicans like here), for 10 - 20 rubles. In the supermarket was the American-style bread for $2, with the attendant list of ingredients. In the US, the only bread available at the store, even though there are a 100 choices, they all come with a mind-boggling, vocabulary-choking list of added ingredients - chemical colorings, flavorings, additives, etc. The only way to get "real" bread here is to buy a breadmaker and cook it yourself, starting from flour.


And yes most if not every Russian has a home. May not be the best but there is no need for everyone to borrow large amounts of money just to own a home and no way for anyone to take that home from you. I think it is still against the law to make people homeless but that is not true in America. Just try owing taxes to the government, they have no problem taking your home and making you homeless over $1000.

Oh, yes, tax deadbeats, they do have a home, it's called federal prison. With penalties, late fees, monthly interest on fees and penalties, more late fees, etc., that $1000 can quickly grow an extra zero or two...

The IRS (Internal Revenue Service) makes the FBI, the CIA or the KGB, by comparison, seem like your friendly, next door babysitter. I paid $384 fines last year because I forgot to sign the forms, and the year earlier, $200 because their computer found a math error. I don't think it was an error, but I paid promptly anyway, and their letter, arriving 6-months later, advised me I needed a ton of documentation before they would consider an appeal. They don't reply for months, and by that time, they tack on penalties and interest. Used to be you could call them on the phone, and they would accept an explanation, but as the US debt mounts up, they don't negotiate.

Americans live in fear of a letter from the IRS, and the IRS spits out 30 million letters a year. The IRS tracks every stock market transaction you make, has access to all your bank accounts and every credit-card transaction, and now with Obamacare, is in charge of overseeing your health insurance (that is your physical well-being). Clinton used the IRS to silence his girlfriends, and Obama used it to strangle the Tea Party. The only organization that I know who ever won a legal war with them is the Church of $cientology (took 17 years and the IRS surrendered unconditionally). I don't know which group is scarier...

Before I get any more off-topic, yes, most Russians do have a flat or house. Maybe not as nice as American homes, but the Krushchovkov's are viable living units, and from my experience listening to the neighbors hammering and banging, from above and below, they are constantly upgrading/renovating.

Mr. Intransigent, RL, just won't admit there is a large middle class in Russia with the same basic lifestyle and amenities as the large middle class in America - a flat or house (mostly owned in Russia, mostly mortgaged in USA), a car, big flat-screen TV, smart-phone, food every night, etc. And yes, living paycheck-to-paycheck, but that is a vast improvement over 200, 100 or even 50 years ago.

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 13:20
Not lately with 63% of people living pay check to pay check. Worker participation is down and 50 million people are on food stamps. Keep believing the lies though the US doesn't have much longer to go, post election not much more.

Well, if a Republican gets elected, then the media will stop, make a 180, and suddenly, universally, start bellyaching about the absolutely horrible economic conditions in the US. If Hillary is elected, then post-election it will be "the economy is wonderful, everything is fine,..."

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 13:26
Per Capita income: USA $54,629 Russian Federation $23, 744 Comparing cigarette prices is silly. Western governments have increased cigarette prices substantially to encourage people to quit and improve overall health. As an example of health in Russia, keeping cigarettes cheap is one reason why an average Bangladeshi lives longer than a Russian! :winking:
Alcohol is cheaper in Russia too, i suppose, in reality that's a good thing too?

The overall standard of living in the USA is far higher than in Russia..

You live in London? Thailand? And RL lives in Russia? And you both measure salaries in US dollars, and your standard-of-living you delineate by exchange rates.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. :rofl:

Maybe I should measure my Ebay-earnings with Norwegian Krone. :rofl:

Russian Lad
29-01-2016, 13:33
Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wally View Post
I wonder will anyone point out to RL that Marlboro are $16 a pack in NYC and there are cigarettes that you can still get for 50 rubles a pack in Moscow. Bread what $2 for crappy bread because they don't really have good bread in the states. In Moscow the poor can buy a loaf of bread for 11 rubles.
That's what I thought. I haven't been to Russia for 6 years, but I remember getting Marlboros for 50 rubbles

This is ridiculous - I smoke Marlboro every day (Marlboro Gold) and I buy it for 105 rubles in Piatorochka or Dixie. Wally has lied, once again - but note that he is not talking about Marlboro, but about "cigarettes" - thus intentionally misinforming you and you jump on it like a baby... 50 rubles - that was like you said - 6 years ago, what makes you think we still have the same prices? (http://kalyanmir.ru/product/sigarety_malboro_gold_original) I am not sure where he gets bread for 11 rubles either, unless it is a small bulochka.


Mr. Intransigent, RL, just won't admit there is a large middle class in Russia with the same basic lifestyle and amenities as the large middle class in America

Large middle class in Russia? It is almost non-existent. No one in his right mind would call the income of 20-40K rubles per month "middle class" - it is sheer survival, even if you have managed to buy a tvset or a fridge to pay for it in installments.

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 14:09
This is ridiculous - I smoke Marlboro every day (Marlboro Gold) and I buy it for 105 rubles in Piatorochka or Dixie.... 50 rubles - that was like you said - 6 years ago, what makes you think we still have the same prices?

50 rubbles 6 years ago was almost $2, so now it is a much more expensive bad habit...whoops, I mean much cheaper, or...? I'm confused.

Sheesh! Can you make up my mind again? Are we saying it is more expensive because it went from 50 rubbles to 105, or are we saying that it is cheaper since we are measuring everything in US$ via an exchange rate? :)

RL, up here on board the Starship, we are curious. Does not your physical mechanism require a quantity of sleep in order to function properly?

Russian Lad
29-01-2016, 14:26
50 rubbles 6 years ago was almost $2, so now it is a much more expensive bad habit...whoops, I mean much cheaper, or...? I'm confused.

Sheesh! Can you make up my mind again? Are we saying it is more expensive because it went from 50 rubbles to 105, or are we saying that it is cheaper since we are measuring everything in US$ via an exchange rate? :)

RL, up here on board the Starship, we are curious. Does not your physical mechanism require a quantity of sleep in order to function properly?


If we measure it in USD, yes, it is cheaper. But 99% of poor Ivans and Natashas are paid in rubles, so for 99% of Russians it is two times more expensive now. What is so difficult to understand? Did you drop out from high school in your younger days?


Does not your physical mechanism require a quantity of sleep in order to function properly?

I woke up one hour and a half ago and went to bed seven hours prior to that, if you must know. Since I don't bother going to any work I have the luxury of going to sleep when I feel like going to sleep, and I forgot what an alarm clock is 8 years ago. Communism. I intend to build it for myself and screw the rest of the losers. They want to suffer anyway, it seems. Today's Russia is great in this respect - there are millions of idiots who will always willingly suffer on your behalf with a happy smile on their faces. See, I acknowledge the due benefits of the current system. I am in the process of helping myself to a rather tasty, flavor-rich piece of pie, my friend.

Uncle Wally
29-01-2016, 15:38
Marlboro are 100 or 105 rubles now but you can still find a pack of cigarettes for 50 rubles, they may not be Marlboro but they are tabak.


I wonder how the people of Flint Michigan feel about their quality of life? Having to drink polluted water because the city was running out of money.

Judge
29-01-2016, 17:47
They are knocking, even trying to smash their way back into Russia to spend their euros, can't blame them with the ruble as weak as it is



There are a huge number of foreign businesses and investors waiting impatiently for the day when anti-Russian sanctions are lifted: “for investor sentiment it will be absolutely massive,” according to a UK-based investor. It would also be a “breath of fresh air to French farmers,” echoes French newspaper La Tribune.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160128/1033832141/investors-traders-sanctions-russia.html#ixzz3ye3eYmlp

Nobbynumbnuts
29-01-2016, 19:41
That's info from probably like 2-3 years ago, at the current rate it is 146K rubles per month. Hardly feasible these days. My mother's salary is 30K rubles, my father's - 35K rubles, both have higher education. Me, when I begin looking for translator vacancies, I can only hope for something between 20K and 50K per month:
http://spb.hh.ru/search/vacancy?text=%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BA&area=2...........

..that's not average salary, that's Russian annual GDP/number of people in Russia (143mil. approx)

Nobbynumbnuts
29-01-2016, 19:44
They are knocking, even trying to smash their way back into Russia to spend their euros, can't blame them with the ruble as weak as it is




Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160128/1033832141/investors-traders-sanctions-russia.html#ixzz3ye3eYmlp

...according to Sputnik News?
According to the Beano, desperate Dan can eat two cow pies and he's still hungry!! :winking:

Fantastika
29-01-2016, 21:13
I wonder how the people of Flint Michigan feel about their quality of life? Having to drink polluted water because the city was running out of money.

IMHO, it's another "Katrina." The corrupt Democrat mayor of New Orleans drove the city into financial ruin, and when the hurricane came, city officials fled town, along with the cops and firemen. The direct opposite of NYC in 9/11, when the cops and firemen died heroically trying to save lives. In Flint's case, a corrupt Democrat mayoral administration drove the city into bankruptcy, paying welfare and neglecting infrastructure, so the media looks around for the nearest Republican to blame - the governor. There are several other Democratic Michigan cities tottering on the financial cliffs - Left wing hasn't yet accepted economic reality - you can't spend money you don't have, and you can't steal it. Cities and states are constrained by laws mandating balanced budgets. Unlike at the federal level, where Obama plucks dollars off money trees.

Judge
29-01-2016, 22:32
...according to Sputnik News?
According to the Beano, desperate Dan can eat two cow pies and he's still hungry!! :winking:

You and your comics :big-grin:
Another comic for you to enjoy..http://news.yahoo.com/france-hopes-see-russia-sanctions-lifted-summer-french-184448429.html
Let them lift their sanctions, it doesn't mean Russia will lift hers. ..

Nobbynumbnuts
29-01-2016, 23:09
You and your comics :big-grin:
Another comic for you to enjoy..http://news.yahoo.com/france-hopes-see-russia-sanctions-lifted-summer-french-184448429.html
Let them lift their sanctions, it doesn't mean Russia will lift hers. ..

Judge, you have to read the whole article, not just the headlines and look at the pictures.
I'll quote your article....

The goal that we all share is to be able to lift the sanctions this summer because the (Minsk peace) process will have been respected,".......Last Friday, Secretary of State John Kerry on Friday held out the prospect of lifting the sanctions if the Minsk agreement is implemented in full............This would allow Russia "to get to a place where sanctions can be appropriately -- because of the full implementation -- removed," he said.

The message couldn't be clearer. Russia fully implements the terms of the Minsk agreement and sanctions will be lifted, nothing has changed.
Perhaps if Yahoo news put the article in a comic strip format you'd be able to fully grasp it's meaning.....:winking:

Judge
30-01-2016, 03:20
“European investors are waiting for the day, hopefully sometime in July, when Brussels axes sanctions on Russia,” states Forbes.



“I don’t think lifting sanctions changes things in the short term for the Russian economy, but for investor sentiment it will be absolutely massive,” said Martin Charmoy, the company’s managing director.



echoed by French newspaper La Tribune, which says that the dropping of the trade sanctions against Russia will be “a breath of fresh air for French Farmers

Like I said, ready to start doing business with Russia again, even more so now that the ruble is weaker.
Nobs, read it yourself, are they wanting to do business with Russia, tthat's the discussion here, not the Minsk agreement. ..do you understand :smile:
Also, remember the sanctions Russia put on the EU, if they lift sanctions, it doesn't mean their goods will enter Russia, maybe Putin will be picky and only allow certain goods in, so to protect the local industry. .

Nobbynumbnuts
30-01-2016, 09:32
Like I said, ready to start doing business with Russia again, even more so now that the ruble is weaker.
Nobs, read it yourself, are they wanting to do business with Russia, tthat's the discussion here, not the Minsk agreement. ..do you understand :smile:
Also, remember the sanctions Russia put on the EU, if they lift sanctions, it doesn't mean their goods will enter Russia, maybe Putin will be picky and only allow certain goods in, so to protect the local industry. .


http://news.yahoo.com/france-hopes-s...184448429.html
The Yahoo article you posted exclusively mentions the Minsk Agreement and now that's not the topic of discussion? Judge, your slipperier than a dodgy banker! :winking:

Judge
30-01-2016, 09:42
http://news.yahoo.com/france-hopes-s...184448429.html
The Yahoo article you posted exclusively mentions the Minsk Agreement and now that's not the topic of discussion? Judge, your slipperier than a dodgy banker! :winking:

Read my post again, slowly this time ,I'll help you,it's about business wanting to invest in Russia again, waiting impatiently, we all know about the Minsk agreement, this isn't the discussion here,they are desperate to invest, like Fenrir said earlier, goods in his country are cheap, cos they are over supplied, these businesses will make more money on the Russian market. ...sanctions lifted in July, next year isn't the topic, it's about poor desperate EU businesses waiting for the doors of Russia to be flung open again..
You disagree with businesses desperately wanting to do business again in Russia?

In that yahoo article, the French guy is more or less pleading for Russian business, don't blame him, business with Russia again will help boost the EU economy, it's like many are pleading with Russiathese days, the Saudis to cut production and now EU leaders. .

Fantastika
30-01-2016, 15:38
Read my post again, slowly this time ,I'll help you,it's about business wanting to invest in Russia again, waiting impatiently, we all know about the Minsk agreement, this isn't the discussion here,they are desperate to invest, like Fenrir said earlier, goods in his country are cheap, cos they are over supplied, these businesses will make more money on the Russian market. ...sanctions lifted in July, next year isn't the topic, it's about poor desperate EU businesses waiting for the doors of Russia to be flung open again..
You disagree with businesses desperately wanting to do business again in Russia?

In that yahoo article, the French guy is more or less pleading for Russian business, don't blame him, business with Russia again will help boost the EU economy, it's like many are pleading with Russiathese days, the Saudis to cut production and now EU leaders. .

I agree with Knobs, I can't see US lifting sanctions anytime soon. They would lose face, for one thing, and even though it's hypocrisy to have sanctions in the first place, and not have them on despotic countries like Saudi Arabia, and currency-manipulating China. That will change only if Trump or another Washington outsider is elected, but not if Hillary (who compared VVP to Adolf) is elected.

Fantastika
30-01-2016, 15:45
The ruble is under-valued by 61%, according to McDonalds (the Big Mac index): :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index

Price of a Big Mac in US: $4.79
Price of a Big Mac in Russia: $1.88 (133.75 rubles)

And that was in November, 2015. The ruble has fallen since then, so the current price (in $) is even lower, and the real ruble value even more out-of-whack.

Judge
30-01-2016, 16:11
I agree with Knobs, I can't see US lifting sanctions anytime soon. They would lose face, for one thing, and even though it's hypocrisy to have sanctions in the first place, and not have them on despotic countries like Saudi Arabia, and currency-manipulating China. That will change only if Trump or another Washington outsider is elected, but not if Hillary (who compared VVP to Adolf) is elected.

The US can keep its sanctions on, it's some EU countries that really want them lifted , business people from these countries put pressure on their country's leaders, then you have the US putting pressure on EU leaders too...

Nobbynumbnuts
30-01-2016, 16:14
The US can keep its sanctions on, it's some EU countries that really want them lifted , business people from these countries put pressure on their country's leaders, then you have the US putting pressure on EU leaders too...

..keep on wishing, Judge. Try crossing fingers too! :winking:

Judge
30-01-2016, 16:23
..keep on wishing, Judge. Try crossing fingers too! :winking:

Wishing for what, lifting of sanctions? they don't bother me, both don't, the EU sanctions and the anti-sanctions. I would find it funny if the EU lifted its sanctions and Russia kept hers on for a while longer..

Uncle Wally
30-01-2016, 19:08
Wishing for what, lifting of sanctions? they don't bother me, both don't, the EU sanctions and the anti-sanctions. I would find it funny if the EU lifted its sanctions and Russia kept hers on for a while longer..


They don't bother me either. I think they don't bother most Russians. The rich, yes but more than that no. There is no lack of food, some foods have even gotten cheaper, better quality and more abundant. The longer this goes on the better Russia will get at beating it and the more the US and Europe will lose.

fenrir
30-01-2016, 20:45
They don't bother me either. I think they don't bother most Russians. The rich, yes but more than that no. There is no lack of food, some foods have even gotten cheaper, better quality and more abundant. The longer this goes on the better Russia will get at beating it and the more the US and Europe will lose.

Better quality? You mean like 3/4s of Russian cheese being made out of oil instead of dairy?

Cheaper? You must have a strange definition of cheaper. After over a year of price increases, you get a discount and call that cheaper. Here, I'm paying for milk, for example, prices from 10 years ago. THAT'S CHEAPER.

I agree with you on abundance. All the supermarkets I saw there on my last trip were full of food and drink. No dispute there.

Russian Lad
30-01-2016, 21:14
I'll help you,it's about business wanting to invest in Russia again, waiting impatiently

Waiting and removing the investments from here... I doubt we will see the sanctions lifted any time soon.

Uncle Wally
30-01-2016, 21:30
Better quality? You mean like 3/4s of Russian cheese being made out of oil instead of dairy?

Cheaper? You must have a strange definition of cheaper. After over a year of price increases, you get a discount and call that cheaper. Here, I'm paying for milk, for example, prices from 10 years ago. THAT'S CHEAPER.

I agree with you on abundance. All the supermarkets I saw there on my last trip were full of food and drink. No dispute there.


Ok here we go again. The guy in Estonia trying to tell us in Russia how things are.


They have been settling the problem with cheese for some time now and only the very cheapest may have palm oil. The cheese I bought two days on sale was very good and 125 rubles for 500g. I don't find that outrageous in these troubling times. Fruit is now coming from South America, Iran,Syria and China. Places that grow their food naturally. Israeli has been sending a lot of vegetables too. I love celery and can now buy it much cheaper than before.

It will be a very sad day when one country and a small group of people take over the world. This is the main reason I will stand with the only person /country willing and strong enough to keep fascism in check.

Uncle Wally
30-01-2016, 21:31
Waiting and removing the investments from here... I doubt we will see the sanctions lifted any time soon.

You mean "hoping" don't you?

Sorry to tell you this but people in Europe are getting very tired of all this.

Uncle Wally
30-01-2016, 21:37
You all can keep trying to make us feel bad but we can see the good news coming out every day about the fight against terrorism and Russia's move to help it's people and the world. I heard that Russia is ready to start cutting oil outputs. Could be the fact that Europe is getting very tired of Saudi Arabian support of IS and Americans lame lies.

Nobbynumbnuts
30-01-2016, 21:43
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi

Russian inflation averaging around 15% in 2015

In Russia, the most important categories in the consumer price index are food and non-alcoholic beverages (30 percent of the total weight) and transport (14 percent). The index also includes: clothing and footwear (11 percent); housing, water, electricity, gas and other fuels (11 percent); recreation and cultural activities (6 percent), alcoholic beverages and tobacco products (6 percent) and household appliances (6 percent). Health, communication, education, hotels, restaurants and other goods and services account for the remaining 16 percent of total weight.
Year-on-year, cost of food and non-alcoholic beverages increased by 14.8 percent

Uncle Wally
30-01-2016, 22:18
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi

Russian inflation averaging around 15% in 2015

In Russia, the most important categories in the consumer price index are food and non-alcoholic beverages (30 percent of the total weight) and transport (14 percent). The index also includes: clothing and footwear (11 percent); housing, water, electricity, gas and other fuels (11 percent); recreation and cultural activities (6 percent), alcoholic beverages and tobacco products (6 percent) and household appliances (6 percent). Health, communication, education, hotels, restaurants and other goods and services account for the remaining 16 percent of total weight.
Year-on-year, cost of food and non-alcoholic beverages increased by 14.8 percent



Oh great another foreigner who doesn't live in Russia trying to tell us how bad we should feel. Thank you so much but we can survive without you. I first came to Russia in 1994. What is going on now is nothing. Don't try to blow it up because we here know better. Look at your own failing state and stop being distracted by your governments attempt to entertain you with lies about how bad it is in other places. You are going to have it far worse if you don't pay attention to what is going on in your own country.

Uncle Wally
30-01-2016, 22:28
I would also like to point out that Iran and Cuba have had sanctions for much longer than Russia and did not have to give up. Long live Fidel!

Nobbynumbnuts
30-01-2016, 22:50
Russian government's own figures: RPI 15%

W-h-a-t-a-p-l-o-n-k-e-r! :laughing:

fenrir
31-01-2016, 00:40
Ok here we go again. The guy in Estonia trying to tell us in Russia how things are.


They have been settling the problem with cheese for some time now and only the very cheapest may have palm oil. The cheese I bought two days on sale was very good and 125 rubles for 500g. I don't find that outrageous in these troubling times. Fruit is now coming from South America, Iran,Syria and China. Places that grow their food naturally. Israeli has been sending a lot of vegetables too. I love celery and can now buy it much cheaper than before.

It will be a very sad day when one country and a small group of people take over the world. This is the main reason I will stand with the only person /country willing and strong enough to keep fascism in check.

Yeah, I'm the guy in Estonia who comes to Russia two or three times a year. Since we usually stay in my inlaws' or other family members' flats, we shop a lot in the local supermarkets. I can compare a lot better than you because you don't leave Russia, so you have no points of comparison.

Btw, my information is from RUSSIAN news. Are you ready to say Russian sources are BS liars?

Alan65
31-01-2016, 03:07
I would also like to point out that Iran and Cuba have had sanctions for much longer than Russia and did not have to give up. Long live Fidel!

Wally can you read or write in Russian, do you have a commitment to Russia other than Vodka

Alan65
31-01-2016, 03:10
Oh great another foreigner who doesn't live in Russia trying to tell us how bad we should feel. Thank you so much but we can survive without you. I first came to Russia in 1994. What is going on now is nothing. Don't try to blow it up because we here know better. Look at your own failing state and stop being distracted by your governments attempt to entertain you with lies about how bad it is in other places. You are going to have it far worse if you don't pay attention to what is going on in your own country.

Do you have any real ties with Russia, I have a wife and daughter......i

I travel to Russia with a family visa to the sticks....i dont think you know Russia, i just think you stay in the brown line

Uncle Wally
31-01-2016, 06:01
Do you have any real ties with Russia, I have a wife and daughter......i

I travel to Russia with a family visa to the sticks....i dont think you know Russia, i just think you stay in the brown line


I live far from the "brown" line now, close to MKAD. I have been living in Russia for 20 years now. My first wife was from Penza 19 and I've spent a lot of time in Penza. Second wife who is the mother of my 5 year old son is from Moscow. My girlfriend and I take trips to small cities like Tula. She really likes Tula and so do I.

Uncle Wally
31-01-2016, 06:14
Russian government's own figures: RPI 15%

W-h-a-t-a-p-l-o-n-k-e-r! :laughing:



There you go again with calling me some name that I don't even understand. If you want to insult me it would be far better to call me a name I know.

Uncle Wally
31-01-2016, 06:16
Yeah, I'm the guy in Estonia who comes to Russia two or three times a year. Since we usually stay in my inlaws' or other family members' flats, we shop a lot in the local supermarkets. I can compare a lot better than you because you don't leave Russia, so you have no points of comparison.

Btw, my information is from RUSSIAN news. Are you ready to say Russian sources are BS liars?


Great you finally understand Crimea is part of Russia.

Nobbynumbnuts
31-01-2016, 10:34
In Wally World there's no inflation and everyone has a place to live! :laughing:

http://news.sky.com/story/1632947/moscows-young-homeless-seek-refuge-in-sewers

Moscow's Young Homeless Seek Refuge In Sewers
Charities in Moscow say rampant inflation and huge cuts in government spending has led to thousands of people being made homeless.

fenrir
31-01-2016, 10:55
Great you finally understand Crimea is part of Russia.

Nice attempt at your usual dodge when you get stymied on a topic.

FatAndy
31-01-2016, 11:40
:emote_popcorn:


Great you finally understand Crimea is part of Russia.
It won't change anything. :)

Carl
31-01-2016, 22:26
Sorry to tell you this but people in Europe are getting very tired of all this.

How do you know? You don't live in Europe..
Classic. Aren't you the guy that's always spouting the "You don't even live here.., you have no idea what it's like here" line? I think you are..
Funny.

Carl
31-01-2016, 22:32
The guy in Estonia trying to tell us in Russia how things are..

Yep, thought it was you...

Carl
31-01-2016, 22:34
Oh great another foreigner who doesn't live in Russia trying to tell us how bad we should feel.

Two examples on one page!

Uncle Wally
01-02-2016, 08:00
How do you know? You don't live in Europe..
Classic. Aren't you the guy that's always spouting the "You don't even live here.., you have no idea what it's like here" line? I think you are..
Funny.


I can read the news and I also talk with people in Europe almost everyday.

Carl
01-02-2016, 11:18
I can read the news and I also talk with people in Europe almost everyday.

So, in that case..if finrir and Nobby read the news regarding Russia, or talk to people in Russia frequently.., then you'd all be on the same footing in your comments. Right?

Russian Lad
01-02-2016, 12:51
Frankly, I am very worried about one thing - will they seize the hard currency accounts this time like they did in 1998, to give back rubles at a reduced rate? I am reading only 5% of Russians have those, and the total amount is 40 billion dollars. They are already talking about freezing the accounts with over 100 million rubles on them, making the holders of those participate in the restructuring of various banks. Any ideas anyone? Should I withdraw my hard currency and hide it in my old, mothball-eaten mattress or should I wait? It is all rather disturbing and frustrating.

Uncle Wally
01-02-2016, 13:12
So, in that case..if finrir and Nobby read the news regarding Russia, or talk to people in Russia frequently.., then you'd all be on the same footing in your comments. Right?


Yes that is correct. It's how the interpret the news they read.

Uncle Wally
01-02-2016, 13:13
Frankly, I am very worried about one thing - will they seize the hard currency accounts this time like they did in 1998, to give back rubles at a reduced rate? I am reading only 5% of Russians have those, and the total amount is 40 billion dollars. They are already talking about freezing the accounts with over 100 million rubles on them, making the holders of those participate in the restructuring of various banks. Any ideas anyone? Should I withdraw my hard currency and hide it in my old, mothball-eaten mattress or should I wait? It is all rather disturbing and frustrating.


I would.

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 13:15
Frankly, I am very worried about one thing - will they seize the hard currency accounts this time like they did in 1998, to give back rubles at a reduced rate? I am reading only 5% of Russians have those, and the total amount is 40 billion dollars. They are already talking about freezing the accounts with over 100 million rubles on them, making the holders of those participate in the restructuring of various banks. Any ideas anyone? Should I withdraw my hard currency and hide it in my old, mothball-eaten mattress or should I wait? It is all rather disturbing and frustrating.

Read up about the Argentinian crisis in 2002. Governments always hold a host of measures in reserve, should the sh*t hit the fan.
A ban on all but government approved foreign exchange transactions and/or a conversion of all foreign currency bank accounts to rubles at a government preferential rate are just a few of them. Remember, there'll be no forewarning should this happen, it's usually announced on the news after the banks have closed in the evening and take effect first thing next morning so no chance to escape.
I wouldn't keep more than essential funds in Russia right now. If you withdraw your hard currency you'll lose any interest of course. You could always hide it in the cistern! :winking:

Russian Lad
01-02-2016, 13:41
I wouldn't keep more than essential funds in Russia right now. If you withdraw your hard currency you'll lose any interest of course. You could always hide it in the cistern! :winking:

The interest they offer is slightly above 1% per year. In comparison, it is over 10% for ruble accounts. Madness.
The time is ripe to withdraw everything and throw a Doomsday Party for a week in a fancy restaurant full of laughing people with hookers, blackjack and dancing gypsies?:) Shouting in drunk abandon "Repent, the end is near!"?:) Wonder if I should invite Wally.

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 14:10
The interest they offer is slightly above 1% per year. In comparison, it is over 10% for ruble accounts. Madness.
The time is ripe to withdraw everything and throw a Doomsday Party for a week in a fancy restaurant full of laughing people with hookers, blackjack and dancing gypsies?:) Shouting in drunk abandon "Repent, the end is near!"?:) Wonder if I should invite Wally.

10% APR on the ruble is laughable! Take into account the exchange risk and then add the risk of 'holding' the ruble in a Russia bank. Crazy!

Armoured
01-02-2016, 14:18
Frankly, I am very worried about one thing - will they seize the hard currency accounts this time like they did in 1998, to give back rubles at a reduced rate?

As a rule of thumb, when you hear the _most_ serious people in government denying it could or would ever happen is precisely when you should be the most worried.

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 14:32
As a rule of thumb, when you hear the _most_ serious people in government denying it could or would ever happen is precisely when you should be the most worried.

Bit like football managers. When the owners say their jobs are safe, time to worry :winking:

Judge
01-02-2016, 15:24
Bit like football managers. When the owners say their jobs are safe, time to worry :winking:

Have the Glazers been in town yet...:smile:

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 15:25
Have the Glazers been in town yet...:smile:

He will go sooner or later. Better sooner...:winking:

Judge
01-02-2016, 15:26
RL, you still wishing for the ruble to hit 100,nearly was there vs the euro...now down to 75 vs $...would have been g0od to cash in when it hit 94 to euro..

Russian Lad
01-02-2016, 16:20
RL, you still wishing for the ruble to hit 100,nearly was there vs the euro...now down to 75 vs $...would have been g0od to cash in when it hit 94 to euro..

I cashed in some when it was 90+. I can wait for 2-3 months now for 100+. We are not in a hurry.:)

Judge
01-02-2016, 16:25
I cashed in some when it was 90+. I can wait for 2-3 months now for 100+. We are not in a hurry.:)

Good man ,enjoy..

Uncle Wally
01-02-2016, 17:12
The interest they offer is slightly above 1% per year. In comparison, it is over 10% for ruble accounts. Madness.
The time is ripe to withdraw everything and throw a Doomsday Party for a week in a fancy restaurant full of laughing people with hookers, blackjack and dancing gypsies?:) Shouting in drunk abandon "Repent, the end is near!"?:) Wonder if I should invite Wally.



It wouldn't be a really cool party without me.

Judge
01-02-2016, 19:09
A nice boost for the Crimean economy,

German businessmen were now setting their sights on Crimea as a potential tourist hub.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160201/1034042688/germany-sanctions-jobs.html#ixzz3yvvoXnKQ

AstarD
01-02-2016, 19:13
leader of the party representing the interests of Russian-Germans, as well as those with a migration background, said that he had a number of interesting business proposals for the Crimean authorities.Would that be the same bunch who spread the lies about the lying liar "Russian speaker" teenage girl who said she was kidnapped and raped by immigrants?

Russian Lad
01-02-2016, 19:14
A nice boost for the Crimean economy,


Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160201/1034042688/germany-sanctions-jobs.html#ixzz3yvvoXnKQ

As I understand, even Visa and Mastercard are not working there (or they do?), just as some Internet sites. Besides there are electricity, water problems and what not.

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 19:16
As I understand, even Visa and Mastercard are not working there (or they do?), just as some Internet sites. Besides there are electricity, water problems and what not.

Might appeal to Germans who remember the post war years then! :winking:

Judge
01-02-2016, 19:17
As I understand, even Visa and Mastercard are not working there (or they do?), just as some Internet sites. Besides there are electricity, water problems and what not.

Electricity is OK now, for money, best bring cash..soon the land bridge will be built, tourists can even pop over to the mainland.:smile:
A boost for tourism , is make Crimea visa free for all , see how it goes..
With the euro so strong lots of bargains to be had in Russia for tourists. ...

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 19:49
......With the euro so strong lots of bargains to be had in Russia for tourists. ...

True, just needs to work on it's 'reputation'! :big-grin:

Fantastika
01-02-2016, 20:25
Frankly, I am very worried about one thing - will they seize the hard currency accounts this time like they did in 1998, to give back rubles at a reduced rate? I am reading only 5% of Russians have those, and the total amount is 40 billion dollars. They are already talking about freezing the accounts with over 100 million rubles on them, making the holders of those participate in the restructuring of various banks. Any ideas anyone? Should I withdraw my hard currency and hide it in my old, mothball-eaten mattress or should I wait? It is all rather disturbing and frustrating.

It's better, long term, to diversify, to mitigate risk. Right now, I would buy some gold, it's been on a steady increase, as currency and economic chaos spreads...

Fantastika
01-02-2016, 20:52
Better quality? You mean like 3/4s of Russian cheese being made out of oil instead of dairy?

Have you looked closely at the "cheese" in the Russian supermarket? Or your own? I think it's difficult to make valid comparisons about cheese.

In the American supermarket, there is a shelf of some 100% authentic cheeses, such as "Swiss" or "Mozzarella", etc.

But there is a huge quantity of "cheese" that is not entirely cheese - "Pasteurized Process Cheese," "Cheese Food," Cheese Spread, and "Cheese Product." The US FDA issued guidelines about what is in cheese, and how the maker/marketer must label it. Something that has a vocabulary-choking list of ingredients is not "cheese" in my book, even if it smells and looks like cheese.

Here's some FDA-mandated definitions (it must say so on the label):

Pasteurized process cheese food is a variation of process cheese that may have dry milk, whey solids, or anhydrous milkfat added, which reduces the amount of cheese in the finished product. It must contain at least 51% of the cheese ingredient by weight, have a moisture content less than 44%, and have at least 23% milkfat.

Pasteurized process cheese spread is a variation on cheese food that may contain a sweetener and a stabilizing agent, such as the polysaccharide xanthan gum or the Irish moss colloid carrageenan, to prevent separation of the ingredients. The cheese must be spreadable at 70 F, contain 44 to 60% moisture, and have at least 20% milkfat.

Pasteurized process cheese product is process cheese that doesn't meet the moisture and/or milkfat standards.

Imitation cheese is made from vegetable oil; it is less expensive, but also has less flavor and doesn't melt well.

Lastly, something labeled as "American Cheese" is, by law, required to be manufactured from at least 2 types of cheese. Because its manufacturing process differs from "unprocessed"/raw/natural cheeses, American cheese can not be legally sold under the name (authentic) "cheese" in the US. Instead, federal (and even some state) laws mandate that it be labeled as "processed cheese" if simply made from combining more than one cheese, or "cheese food" if dairy ingredients such as cream, milk, skim milk, buttermilk, cheese whey, or albumin from cheese whey are added.

So are you getting Cheese or oil, or just a bunch of inorganic chemicals when you buy "cheese"? Read the label, or better yet, buy it direct from the farmer!

That's my cheesy contribution to this thread. :)

One more definition of cheese is "money", as in "I'm getting government cheese". :)

29697

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 21:30
..one big difference, the label in the US clearly lists the ingredients, no one is under any illusions as to what the cheeses are. In Russia it's a different story. :winking:

Uncle Wally
01-02-2016, 22:01
..one big difference, the label in the US clearly lists the ingredients, no one is under any illusions as to what the cheeses are. In Russia it's a different story. :winking:


Oh of course it is Mr double standard. That is just an out right lie.

AstarD
01-02-2016, 22:16
Truth in labeling

29698

Nobbynumbnuts
01-02-2016, 22:25
Truth in labeling

29698

Yes, 80% of the cheese in Russian shops is fake, from Russia's own figures..

A little over a year after Russia banned imports of high-quality European dairy products, the country's agricultural watchdog has said that almost 80 percent of the cheese in Russia's shops is fake.
Local production of dairy goods boomed after the Kremlin responded to Western sanctions with a food import embargo. But many producers have been using palm oil, which is cheaper than milk, to pad out their wares.
The result is that 25 percent of all dairy products on sale in Russia are not true dairy, but charlatans, the Interfax news agency reported, citing an investigation by the Rosselkhoznadzor watchdog. .....:winking:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fake-cheese-floods-russian-stores/536730.html

fenrir
02-02-2016, 00:03
Yes, 80% of the cheese in Russian shops is fake, from Russia's own figures..

A little over a year after Russia banned imports of high-quality European dairy products, the country's agricultural watchdog has said that almost 80 percent of the cheese in Russia's shops is fake.
Local production of dairy goods boomed after the Kremlin responded to Western sanctions with a food import embargo. But many producers have been using palm oil, which is cheaper than milk, to pad out their wares.
The result is that 25 percent of all dairy products on sale in Russia are not true dairy, but charlatans, the Interfax news agency reported, citing an investigation by the Rosselkhoznadzor watchdog. .....:winking:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fake-cheese-floods-russian-stores/536730.html

Come on, Wally. Just come out and openly say that Russian sources are full of ----. You have been indirectly stating it already when you disagree with us when we use official Russian stats.

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 01:02
Yes, 80% of the cheese in Russian shops is fake, from Russia's own figures..

A little over a year after Russia banned imports of high-quality European dairy products, the country's agricultural watchdog has said that almost 80 percent of the cheese in Russia's shops is fake.
Local production of dairy goods boomed after the Kremlin responded to Western sanctions with a food import embargo. But many producers have been using palm oil, which is cheaper than milk, to pad out their wares.
The result is that 25 percent of all dairy products on sale in Russia are not true dairy, but charlatans, the Interfax news agency reported, citing an investigation by the Rosselkhoznadzor watchdog. .....:winking:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fake-cheese-floods-russian-stores/536730.html

There is not as much need to label products in Russia, when they are mainly produced on nearby farms - "food" is not something manufactured, as in the US, on assembly-lines in factories, with 10, 20, even up to 50, chemical supplements added to the average frozen dinner to enhance flavor, color, taste, texture and aroma. If farmers abuse the system by mislabeling, I'm sure the oversight agency will crack down.

Russia is not as "advanced" as the US is in feeding its people processed, manufactured "food" or should we say "counterfeit food" ? :)

The "Moscow Whines" has a chronic habit of playing fast and loose with the facts. I don't believe a word they print, since from front to back they are agenda-driven, and they now do not allow comments on articles, on their website. In this case, we don;t know the degree of falsity - is the farmer using 100% oil, or is he just adding 10%, like the "gasoline" that is 10% corn-based ethanol? If you have a pointer to the original Russian article, that would be better, than having your "news" filtered by the biased Moscow Whines.

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 02:34
..so no need to label food in Russia............right :yawn2:

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 04:02
..so no need to label food in Russia............right :yawn2:

I didn't say "NO need to label food," I'm saying for Russia, and most of the world, milk is milk, corn is corn, cheese is cheese. Only in the "advanced" world have huge companies taken over the creation, manufacturing and distribution of food. And as big, $billion dollar corporations, they have taken marketing and production shortcuts in enhancing their products, to enable more $ to flow into their coffers.

You can buy potatoes in Russland, and what you see is what you get - potatoes. You don't need to put a label on each potato. You know you are eating a potato, even if you smother it in melted cheese, or slather it with butter. In the US, you might get a frozen dinner of cheesy creamed potatoes - with an accompanying list of chemical ingredients and additives taking up 30 lines of small print. When a potato is not a potato, when food consists of chemicals, this is one time I'm glad the government is there to mandate big conglomerates describe exactly what it is you are buying and putting into your body.

How about a dry cream substitute for your cup of coffee. Look at the list of ingredients: corn syrup solids, partially hydrogenated soybean oil, sodium casein ate, dipotassium phosphate, sodium, silicoalminate, artificial color, mono-and triglycerides, soy lecithin, and artificial flavor. Only one of the above is even found to be a “milk derivative".

Milk is not milk.

In America, "Kraft American Cheddar Cheese" (one of the most popular) is not cheese, it is:

Whey
Water
Protein concentrate
Milk
Sodium citrate
Calcium phosphate
Milkfat
Gelatin
Salt
Sodium phosphate
Lactic acid as a preservative
Annatto and paprika extract (color)
Enzymes
Vitamin A palmitate
Cheese culture
Vitamin D3

Accusing Russia of mislabeling cheese, when Western countries have a much more in-depth food substitution practice, and a broader range of food mislabeling, when Western "food' is not even "food" but mostly chemicals, is, well, it's laughable! :big-grin:

Russian Lad
02-02-2016, 04:08
Wally - 0.41-0.46.:) Russian Lad - 1.33-1.36, TolkoRaz - 1.58-2.01, the guy with a pistol. Fat Andy - the guy with the machine gun. Penka, TGP, VicY - the woman on the staircase in the beginning, under the Ольгино sign. Natlee - the blonde - 1.45-1.47. Fantastika - the guy in the very beginning, Ben - the guy with a dog. Judge - 3.00-3.02.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpcDCGwktxU

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 04:18
There is not as much need to label products in Russia, when they are mainly produced on nearby farms........

I know i'm going to regret this but here goes................Cheese that is bought in the supermarkets is produced in factories.
Russia is putting oil into that cheese instead of milk and producers are lying about it....Got nothing to do with the USA or Uncle Tom Cobley
All food should be labelled with ingredients, production date, sell by date and as much other info to aid consumers to make the best choices.....................Try to reply without mentioning the USA

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 04:51
Russia is putting oil into that cheese instead of milk and producers are lying about it....Got nothing to do with the USA or Uncle Tom Cobley

...Try to reply without mentioning the USA

"Russia is putting oil..." - you mean all Russians are in on this conspiracy? "Producers"? All producers? A few? Many? To what degree? Substituting 10% of the milk for cheese? 50%?

These are all questions I already asked, but you ignored, and you did not provide the original source, preferring to promote your "reality" through the biased filter of "The Moscow Whines."

Even if they are lying about what's in "cheese" this does not mean that other countries, Western Europe and USA, are ethical when the products in their supermarkets are not even close to what they claim to be.

Anyway, I already posted what "Cheese" in America and Western Europe is: it's not oil, and it's not milk, it's a collection of compounds that you would need a University degree in chemistry to understand. The only way you can deal with that is to say "it's not fair to refer to America." :rofl:

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 04:55
Here's a dinner with 196 ingredients!

http://www.nutritionalanarchy.com/2014/04/05/why-does-a-tv-dinner-need-196-ingredients/

Warning, don't click on the link! You may be sucked into a processed food hell time vortex!

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 04:59
"Russia is putting oil..." - you mean all Russians are in on this conspiracy? "Producers"? All producers? A few? Many? To what degree? Substituting 10% of the milk for cheese? 50%?

These are all questions I already asked, but you ignored, and you did not provide the original source, preferring to promote your "reality" through the biased filter of "The Moscow Whines."

Even if they are lying about what's in "cheese" this does not mean that other countries, Western Europe and USA, are ethical when the products in their supermarkets are not even close to what they claim to be.

Anyway, I already posted what "Cheese" in America and Western Europe is: it's not oil, and it's not milk, it's a collection of compounds that you would need a University degree in chemistry to understand. The only way you can deal with that is to say "it's not fair to refer to America." :rofl:

F*@#ing hell, you're starting to make Wally sound sensible! :winking:

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 05:03
F*@#ing hell, you're starting to make Wally sound sensible! :winking:

You're the plonker with the comm problem.

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 05:10
You're the plonker with the comm problem.

Fine..Try to relax..

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 07:30
29699

Warning, do not try to eat this cheese!

Armoured
02-02-2016, 09:46
"Russia is putting oil..." - you mean all Russians are in on this conspiracy? "Producers"? All producers? A few? Many? To what degree? Substituting 10% of the milk for cheese? 50%?

These are all questions I already asked, but you ignored, and you did not provide the original source, preferring to promote your "reality" through the biased filter of "The Moscow Whines."

Here's Kommersant original:
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2822494


Anyway, I already posted what "Cheese" in America and Western Europe is: it's not oil, and it's not milk, it's a collection of compounds that you would need a University degree in chemistry to understand. The only way you can deal with that is to say "it's not fair to refer to America." :rofl:

You're comparing different things: processed cheese in virtually all Western countries is clearly marked as such - it's not cheese. Cheese has very specific rules about what may be in it.

And in fact Russia does have clear rules (similarly) about what may be in cheese (and called cheese) and what is a 'cheese-like product' (basically processed cheese).

The article is quite clear: Rosselkhoznadzor found that up to ~78% is counterfeit cheese - marked as cheese when it contains things that are not allowed in cheese, primarily palm oil. This is a very different issue than people buying 'processed cheese' (or whatever other name) who don't know the difference between that and real cheese. It's outright lies on the labelling.

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 14:22
Oil ($32) and the ruble (80-$) are back on a downward trajectory. Has the recent recovery run out of steam or is this simply a breather before they continue to improve?
Gotta say, i can't call it. Could be the improvement was down to rumors of a deal between OPEC and Russia to increase production which don't seem to have materialized..

Armoured
02-02-2016, 14:32
Oil ($32) and the ruble (80-$) are back on a downward trajectory. Has the recent recovery run out of steam or is this simply a breather before they continue to improve?
Gotta say, i can't call it. Could be the improvement was down to rumors of a deal between OPEC and Russia to increase production which don't seem to have materialized..

I think you meant 'decrease' production.

Now we can wait a beat for Judge to tell us why all this bad news is good news.

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 14:38
I think you meant 'decrease' production.

Now we can wait a beat for Judge to tell us why all this bad news is good news.

I stand corrected. Another dreadful typo from numbnuts lol!
Yes, i'm eagerly looking forward to some spin from the spin master! :winking:

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 14:50
..on another point, this might seem like a good idea on the face of it but if Russia were to sell state owned assets at 'knocked down prices', as the kremlin puts it, to the Russian people, then when prices recover they would be able to reap the benefits. Like a big tax return in effect for those who take up the offer and therefore a boost for the economy. While also allowing the Kremlin to fill the holes in the budget, which was the priority...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/557944.html

Putin Says No Privatization at Knockdown Prices

President Vladimir Putin on Monday threw cold water on proposals to quickly sell stakes in state companies to fill holes in Russia's budget.

"There should be no sale of shares cheaply, at giveaway prices. This won't bring particular benefit to the budget," Putin said at a meeting with officials and heads of state firms.

Ministers had considered privatizing stakes in a major companies including banking group VTB and oil giant Rosneft to raise money after a plunge in the price of crude, Russia's main export, left the budget struggling to finance a growing deficit.

Privatization could help avoid raising taxes, cutting spending or draining fiscal reserves, while also boosting capital in the banking sector, which has limited access to Western capital because of sanctions imposed during the Ukraine crisis.

However, Russia's economy is in recession and share prices are low, meaning the government would make less from their sale.

Putin added that the government should not lose control of strategically important companies, according to a transcript on the Kremlin website, limiting the size of any privatization program.

Analysts previously told The Moscow Times the government may struggle to find buyers and be forced to finance privatization through state banks, a tactic would turn the process into a budget bailout mechanism and undermine hopes that it could bring in new management expertise and improve efficiency at the companies on sale.

Putin on Monday ruled this out, saying that money from state banks should not be used and participants must have plans to develop the businesses they buy.

Judge
02-02-2016, 14:57
I stand corrected. Another dreadful typo from numbnuts lol!
Yes, i'm eagerly looking forward to some spin from the spin master! :winking:


Funny, that's your nickname don't forget:tongue:, sorry, for now don't have the time to reply to your other thread, of course will do, now stuck on Tverskaya st, heavy traffic, snow storm hitting. ..

Armoured, where's the bad news,the ruble is just adjusting to the oil price,nothing new.

I'll leave you guys with this to read,

Sorry Haters, Russia Survives $30 Oil
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/02/01/sorry-haters-russia-survives-30-oil/#3029b2234c6f

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 15:01
....stuck on Tverskaya st, heavy traffic, snow storm hitting. ..

Try looking on the bright side!! :winking:

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 15:08
.........I'll leave you guys with this to read,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/02/01/sorry-haters-russia-survives-30-oil/#3029b2234c6f

Judge, i did mention before, don't just look at the headlines and the pictures.

From your article, line 3!..
...But if oil falls below $30 for an extended period, then all bets are off and Russia’s economy will be in for a prolonged recession.
The investment research arm of Sberbank, Russia’s largest lender, warned that if oil does average under a $30 per barrel, then Russia’s budget deficit easily widens to around 3.5 trillion to 3.9 trillion rubles, or around $48.7 billion. Government expenditures are budgeted at around 16 trillion rubles. In a sub-30 oil scenario, the Russian government will be forced to cut its budget by 10% in order to reduce the deficit, according to Sberbank CIB.

Far too early to be calling the crisis over...:winking:

Armoured
02-02-2016, 15:09
Armoured, where's the bad news,the ruble is just adjusting to the oil price,

There it is! Good news (which you identified as Russia and Saudi agreeing to cut production/raise oil prices) is good, but bad news (oil going down in price, ruble falling) is also good - an 'adjustment.' Sure, adjustment is good, but Russians are poorer.


I'll leave you guys with this to read,
Sorry Haters, Russia Survives $30 Oil

A good read. But you seem to have confused me with someone else who is claiming Russia doesn't survive. I also don't believe I've ever said that policy is all bad - MinFin and Central Bank, for example, are making the best of very bad decisions made elsewhere.

In the meantime, 'Russia survives' is a nice headline, but here are the pull quotes:
-Russia remains in crisis mode. The recession continues.
- A range of $30 to $40 per barrel still leaves Russia without any particular a-ha moment.
-“We do not expect policymakers to deliver consistent economic policies anytime soon, as in this year,”
-where will economic growth come from? Definitely not from the sectors that are subsidized by state intervention,
-But if oil falls below $30 for an extended period, then all bets are off and Russia’s economy will be in for a prolonged recession.

Saying 'Russia survives' (and note the implication that oil below $30 causes serious problems) is setting the bar pretty damn low.

Judge
02-02-2016, 15:18
Try looking on the bright side!! :winking:

There's no bright side of Moscow, in fact, it's all bright...:goodbye:

Judge
02-02-2016, 15:44
There it is! Good news (which you identified as Russia and Saudi agreeing to cut production/raise oil prices) is good, but bad news (oil going down in price, ruble falling) is also good - an 'adjustment.' Sure, adjustment is good, but Russians are poorer.


What are you talking about, putting words in my mouth again, you have a habit of doing that:smile:..Where did I say it's good news about oil cutting from Russia ?Russia giving up its market share isn't good for the oil companies. .
It's no brainer why the ruble is weakening, it's what happens when the ruble is a floating currency,you know all this.
Good or bad news, depends how you look at it, at least Russia isn't burning through her funds, which I say is good news. .

Armoured
02-02-2016, 15:48
More info on cheeses: as hard cheeses got more expensive, Russians switched to plavlenniy cheese (processed cheese, just like Kraft). Made of the same stuff referred to earlier in this thread.

http://www.rbc.ru/business/21/01/2016/56a1025c9a79474457a3b5ff

For those obsessed with comparing to the United States: looks like about 20% in Russia is processed cheese with all the garbage Fantastika complained about. US figures are lower in percent terms. http://www.idfa.org/news-views/media-kits/cheese/cheese-sales-trends

So no reason to believe that (in this area) Russian diet is better. And that's without adjusting for palm oil added to 'natural' cheeses in Russia, in outright violation of local legislation.

Armoured
02-02-2016, 15:50
What are you talking about, putting words in my mouth again, you have a habit of doing that:smile:..Where did I say it's good news about oil cutting from Russia ?Russia giving up its market share isn't good for the oil companies.

I believe you were arguing that Saudi was begging for meeting to cut production, and that would be good. What have I misunderstood about your point?

Nobbynumbnuts
02-02-2016, 16:07
More info on cheeses: as hard cheeses got more expensive, Russians switched to plavlenniy cheese (processed cheese, just like Kraft). Made of the same stuff referred to earlier in this thread.

http://www.rbc.ru/business/21/01/2016/56a1025c9a79474457a3b5ff

For those obsessed with comparing to the United States: looks like about 20% in Russia is processed cheese with all the garbage Fantastika complained about. US figures are lower in percent terms. http://www.idfa.org/news-views/media-kits/cheese/cheese-sales-trends

So no reason to believe that (in this area) Russian diet is better. And that's without adjusting for palm oil added to 'natural' cheeses in Russia, in outright violation of local legislation.

I'd argue that the average Russian diet is quite poor (apart from the cheese issue) and that poor diet is one of the drivers that they have a low life expectancy...

Judge
02-02-2016, 16:18
I believe you were arguing that Saudi was begging for meeting to cut production, and that would be good. What have I misunderstood about your point?

Only thing I posted was about Saudi's pleas to cut ,which was in the news, nothing about being good for Russia..

I'll stand corrected if you can find my post where I said oil cuts are good for Russia...

You and others make a big thing about the weakening ruble, it's nothing new, ruble adjusts to the oil price,before they would defend the ruble by spending billions, now they aren't, a weak currency is great for an exporting country, even more so when they are paid in $ and euros.
Some (not you) like to scaremonger, hoping panic kicks..

AstarD
02-02-2016, 17:58
...a weak currency is great for an exporting country, even more so when they are paid in $ and euros
Have Russian exports stepped up in the past two years?

Judge
02-02-2016, 18:11
Have Russian exports stepped up in the past two years?

Don't know, google is your friend. ..in some sectors like weapons and oil I would say yes..

FatAndy
02-02-2016, 19:36
:emote_popcorn:

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 21:09
More info on cheeses: as hard cheeses got more expensive, Russians switched to plavlenniy cheese (processed cheese, just like Kraft). Made of the same stuff referred to earlier in this thread.

http://www.rbc.ru/business/21/01/2016/56a1025c9a79474457a3b5ff

For those obsessed with comparing to the United States: looks like about 20% in Russia is processed cheese with all the garbage Fantastika complained about. US figures are lower in percent terms. http://www.idfa.org/news-views/media-kits/cheese/cheese-sales-trends

So no reason to believe that (in this area) Russian diet is better. And that's without adjusting for palm oil added to 'natural' cheeses in Russia, in outright violation of local legislation.

Russian cheese:

29701

Americanski cheese:

29703

Um, doesn't it look delish? Yum-Yum! вкусно!

Uncle Wally
02-02-2016, 21:47
Don't know, google is your friend. ..in some sectors like weapons and oil I would say yes..


How about vodka and rocket engines? You know Americans are unable to make them on their own.


The article posted about cheese is a year old and I think that the problem then was milk imports. Now Russia is producing more milk and has found new suppliers.

Armoured
02-02-2016, 22:23
Russian cheese:

Um, doesn't it look delish? Yum-Yum! вкусно!

What do you think the label on what you've called "Russian cheese" says? I don't think that 'syropodobniy produkt' means what you think it does.

If anything, you've just shown that American labelling requirements are more strict.

Uncle Wally
02-02-2016, 22:47
What do you think the label on what you've called "Russian cheese" says? I don't think that 'syropodobniy produkt' means what you think it does.

If anything, you've just shown that American labelling requirements are more strict.


Yes it does look like that but the cheese shown is a prepackaged cheese and you can find the same on prepackaged cheese in Russia. The cheese shown in Russia was cut from a bigger round cut into smaller pieces. They don't do that anymore in America?

Fantastika
02-02-2016, 22:48
What do you think...

The weekly meeting of the AFC (Armor-all Forum Cheeseheads) will come to order! :rofl:

29705

Hey. where's RL? Anyone seen Russian Lad? :)

I think he's still in the bunker...that's where he hoards his cheese :)

Cheese it, let's go home.

I'll call RL on my cheese phone!

Hey, is that a real cheese phone, or a fake cheese phone?

It's imitation, Chinese cheese phone!

....

Sorry, I'm gonna have to go away for a while, till I stop laughing... :)

Armoured
02-02-2016, 22:52
Yes it does look like that but the cheese shown is a prepackaged cheese and you can find the same on prepackaged cheese in Russia. The cheese shown in Russia was cut from a bigger round cut into smaller pieces. They don't do that anymore in America?

The cheese shown is not cheese.

Uncle Wally
02-02-2016, 23:31
The cheese shown is not cheese.

Ok maybe I wasn't clear enough. The one cheese was prepackaged and one wasn't.

zzhhst
02-02-2016, 23:44
Hey, leave Green Bay out of it. :goodbye:

Armoured
02-02-2016, 23:46
Ok maybe I wasn't clear enough. The one cheese was prepackaged and one wasn't.

Neither of them are cheese.

zzhhst
02-02-2016, 23:54
Ok maybe I wasn't clear enough. The one cheese was prepackaged and one wasn't.

Who in their right mind would eat Cheese Wiz?29706

Uncle Wally
03-02-2016, 00:28
Neither of them are cheese.

How are you sure? Just because it's Russia? Then you are a racist.

Armoured
03-02-2016, 01:53
How are you sure? Just because it's Russia? Then you are a racist.

Because I read the label, which says it is a 'cheese-like product'.

Uncle Wally
03-02-2016, 06:35
Because I read the label, which says it is a 'cheese-like product'.


Sorry you right the Russian cheese is labeled cheese product.

Fantastika
03-02-2016, 06:47
Because I read the label, which says it is a 'cheese-like product'.

People don't talk like this:

"Honey, do we have any more cheese-like product?"
"No dear, all we have is the pasteurized process cheese food." :)

"Dad, can I have a dollar so I can go buy imitation cheese enhanced with palm and peanut oils?"
"Son, you should get the Colby Jack cheese with hydrolyzed enzymes and annatto extract, it's government approved!" :)

Uncle Wally
03-02-2016, 07:14
Well the whole idea of posting a photo of Russian cheese was to show that the label lied but it doesn't because it says cheese produkt.

Armoured
03-02-2016, 10:02
Well the whole idea of posting a photo of Russian cheese was to show that the label lied but it doesn't because it says cheese produkt.

No, I think Fantastika's point was that the ingredients in a US cheese product were disgusting. And did so by comparing it to a so-called "Russian cheese" - actually also a cheese product - with no ingredients disclosed.

Fail.

Uncle Wally
03-02-2016, 12:45
No, I think Fantastika's point was that the ingredients in a US cheese product were disgusting. And did so by comparing it to a so-called "Russian cheese" - actually also a cheese product - with no ingredients disclosed.

Fail.


It's not prepackaged but cut from a bigger round. I'm sure you could find out what's in it if you want. They sell cheese the same way in the US or at least they used too.

Fantastika
03-02-2016, 15:01
No, I think Fantastika's point was that the ingredients in a US cheese product were disgusting. And did so by comparing it to a so-called "Russian cheese" - actually also a cheese product - with no ingredients disclosed.


Whoops, I thought that was a picture of Russian cheese, I did not read the label. I see I was wrong on two counts - it's "cheese product" and it's made in Armenia, not Russia.

I was trying to say Russian cheese is plain cheese, and American cheese is chemical jello. Some of the added chemicals, in large quantities, are carcinogenic.


Hey, who cut the cheese? Smells cheesy in here. Better open a window! :)

Uncle Wally
03-02-2016, 23:37
Truth in labeling

29698



I now wonder where you got this photo of cheese from because the two supermarkets I was in today had a list of ingredients on them. Anyone living in Russia can check for themselves.

Uncle Wally
03-02-2016, 23:43
America has now hit the 19 trillion dollar debt level.

Some of you want to try to make Russia look bad but at least Russia is not running the biggest debt in the history of the world but paying it's bill while being attacked (financial) by the biggest debtor nation.

When does it stop and who is going to pay for America's excess? Yeah high standard of living and the highest level of debt, I wish I could live like that.

Fantastika
04-02-2016, 05:44
What I'm sayin', what I'm sayin'!

http://www.wmal.com/2016/02/03/mcdonalds-sued-for-alleged-mock-mozzarella-in-cheese-sticks/

You gotta keep an eye on these guys. This is one time I'm in favor of government regulations, when it comes to my food.

What is a "cheese stick" anyway?

29708

The complaint...says instead of the authentic mozzarella depicted in McDonald’s ads and promised on packaging, the cheese has starch additives and other “filler” ingredients.

“Its reasons for doing so are self-evident: inserting filler in its Sticks allows McDonald’s to save money and increase its profit,” the complaint reads.

On McDonald’s website, the company says the sticks are “made with 100% real and melty mozzarella cheese,” and a list of ingredients says the mozzarella has 2% or less of additives including modified potato and food starch.

Court documents filed by Howe allege that McDonald’s mozzarella sticks were tested and found to contain more water and starch than federal food labeling laws allow.


This reminds me of the "breaded fish sticks" found in supermarkets. It seems that they have more bread than fish, so should they truthfully be called "breaded fish sticks" or "fishy bread sticks"? :)

americaninmoscow
04-02-2016, 13:41
wow, ru serious? american cheese is chemical jello??????????????? sure, some is. most of it a bright yellow or another fake color. but there are tons of great cheeses out there. and they are 100%. not like in russia, which has mostly fake and tasteless cheese.

the simple fact that a good cheese takes time to produce means that russia wont do it the right way. i mean, what does russia produce that really takes time? most of the plants for your summer gardens are imported, as are the trees and everything elase that grows.

its simply insane.

but, on the other hand, it makes sense to import everything. its a simple transaction. buy low, sell high, carry little to no risk and walk away with the profit.

Fantastika
04-02-2016, 16:19
wow, ru serious? american cheese is chemical jello??????????????? sure, some is. most of it a bright yellow or another fake color. but there are tons of great cheeses out there. and they are 100%. not like in russia, which has mostly fake and tasteless cheese.

I am familiar with this ubiquitous cheese. I always paid more to get better quality or familiar imports. "Tasteless"? "Real" cheese has a flat flavor - additives make it "tasty" more "colorful" more "aromatic," just as additives in shampoo make it smell nice, give it good texture and cool color, make it foam up. Most of the shampoo additives, the human body considers poisonous, but bits are absorbed through the skin. The body stores crap like this and inorganic food additives in fatty tissues, and it does not enhance one's physical or mental well-being. You can make real shampoo at home - it is greenish-brown, looks like swamp water, smells funny and does not foam.


the simple fact that a good cheese takes time to produce means that russia wont do it the right way. i mean, what does russia produce that really takes time? most of the plants for your summer gardens are imported, as are the trees and everything elase that grows.

There are many factories that produce many products, not just beer and oil. In Togliatti, they have a huge car, truck and SUV factory, in nearby Samara I taught English at a factory which made highly-intricate wiring harnesses, and it was in the industrial part of town, with many small industrial plants producing a variety of products.


but, on the other hand, it makes sense to import everything. ...

Right, including people who recognize opportunity - Pony Express (ponexpress.ru/en/) is a Fedex-like company that was started by two Americans. Now they have 4000 employees and millions of happy customers.

FatAndy
04-02-2016, 20:42
I now wonder where you got this photo of cheese from
Probably from those so called "social networks", the source of intelligence info for DoS and so called "reputable independent Western media"? ;)

Uncle Wally
04-02-2016, 20:45
AstarD where are you?

I was just in a tow supermarkets in Moscow and even the labels on cut cheese listed the ingredients. Where did you find/take that photo?

Judge
05-02-2016, 09:39
Some good news for once.


Russian inflation was probably the slowest last month since 2014, offering consumers a break from more than a year of double-digit price growth before the effects of renewed ruble weakness ripple through the recession-hit economy.
The consumer price index was 9.8 percent in January, falling for a fifth month to the lowest since November 2014, according to the median of 21 estimates in a Bloomberg survey. The Federal Statistics Service in Moscow is set to release the data on Friday or Monday.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-04/russian-shoppers-get-inflation-respite-as-ruble-effect-looms

americaninmoscow
05-02-2016, 13:22
I am familiar with this ubiquitous cheese. I always paid more to get better quality or familiar imports. "Tasteless"? "Real" cheese has a flat flavor - additives make it "tasty" more "colorful" more "aromatic," just as additives in shampoo make it smell nice, give it good texture and cool color, make it foam up. Most of the shampoo additives, the human body considers poisonous, but bits are absorbed through the skin. The body stores crap like this and inorganic food additives in fatty tissues, and it does not enhance one's physical or mental well-being. You can make real shampoo at home - it is greenish-brown, looks like swamp water, smells funny and does not foam.



There are many factories that produce many products, not just beer and oil. In Togliatti, they have a huge car, truck and SUV factory, in nearby Samara I taught English at a factory which made highly-intricate wiring harnesses, and it was in the industrial part of town, with many small industrial plants producing a variety of products.



Right, including people who recognize opportunity - Pony Express (ponexpress.ru/en/) is a Fedex-like company that was started by two Americans. Now they have 4000 employees and millions of happy customers.

fantastika, sorry mate. you are talking about of ur butt about cheese. im american. i split my time between rus and america. i have a pretty good idea of what the two countries offer and the differences between the two. not only that, but i have been in rus for more than 12 years now, so i have a pretty good idea of how things have progressed.

about shampoo. sure, i agree with what you said, but is a different story altogether. no one has banned shampoo in russia.

again, about imports/exports- i have numerous projects here that almost always end up at the same natural conclusion - everything is imported. almost nothing is made here.

you might have stumbled upon a small niche, but that is where it stops.


as to ponyexpress, i am not sure what that has to do with doing biz in russia.

americaninmoscow
05-02-2016, 13:26
maybe it was posted here earlier, but here is an article from Moscow Times-
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fake-cheese-floods-russian-stores/536730.html

A little over a year after Russia banned imports of high-quality European dairy products, the country's agricultural watchdog has said that almost 80 percent of the cheese in Russia's shops is fake.

And that comes from official Russian Government sources.

Uncle Wally
05-02-2016, 15:32
maybe it was posted here earlier, but here is an article from Moscow Times-
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fake-cheese-floods-russian-stores/536730.html

A little over a year after Russia banned imports of high-quality European dairy products, the country's agricultural watchdog has said that almost 80 percent of the cheese in Russia's shops is fake.

And that comes from official Russian Government sources.



Yes we know that but Russia has increased milk production and imports from other countries. The situation with is cheese is getting better not worse.

Fantastika
05-02-2016, 16:27
fantastika, sorry mate. you are talking about of ur butt about cheese. im american. i split my time between rus and america. i have a pretty good idea of what the two countries offer and the differences between the two. not only that, but i have been in rus for more than 12 years now, so i have a pretty good idea of how things have progressed.

about shampoo. sure, i agree with what you said, but is a different story altogether. no one has banned shampoo in russia.

again, about imports/exports- i have numerous projects here that almost always end up at the same natural conclusion - everything is imported. almost nothing is made here.

you might have stumbled upon a small niche, but that is where it stops.

as to ponyexpress, i am not sure what that has to do with doing biz in russia.

Pony Express is an example of opportunity knocking on the door and two people (foreigners) answering it. They overcame many obstacles, but did not give up. I not only had a small company in Russia, I also met people from Africa, US, India and England who were interested in doing business in other niches in Russia. There is opportunity just about anywhere, if you use your brain. I have about 10 ways I can make money now, but never enough time!

Not just Russia, but is anything made in Europe or the USA? When I go to Wallyworld (Walmart) I have a difficult time finding anything bearing the "Made in USA" label. Everything is stamped "Made in China." Even at the auctions I go to, many "antiques" are reproductions and knockoffs from Kiti. I even bought 2 "antique" Russian toys at one auction in Kansas, and stupid me, I should have looked first - on the bottom is "Made in China" - another knockoff.

The only difference I noticed was that the Chinese exports to the US are of a higher quality than Chinese exports (comparing the same product) to Russia, probably because Russia does not have as many quality control and environmental mechanisms built into the trade laws.

My point about cheese was that whoever posted about it was being a bit of a hypocrite, once you consider all the "fake" and "enhanced" food in the West. Not only the added chemicals, but mislabeling. Is a McDonald's "Cheese Stick" which consists of more bread than cheese properly called a "cheese stick"? Or should it be called a "bread stick"?

The Moscow Whines is an agenda-driven rag. Easy to read, because it's in English, but with carefully-selected stories, more design than "news," overall little more than propaganda.

americaninmoscow
05-02-2016, 16:54
fantastika-

we prob agree on more things than we disagree about. :)

most cheap food in the us is food engineered. i am blown away by the amount of sugar that is in products and the ways that it is hidden. its not hard to eat well, but it sure can be expensive! (or take time).

mc donalds is horrible food, although i do enjoy the fries from time to time. anything else, and i have a headache about 45 min after i finish.
here is a new fun article- http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/04/mcdonalds-salad-has-more-calories-than-big-mac.html

McDonald's new Kale salad is the most outrageous offender, with more calories, fat, and sodium than a Double Big Mac burger.



as to moscow times- i know or knew some peeps from there. they have their own views and are trying to write stories that grab eyeballs. sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. much like any other publication. :)

Judge
08-02-2016, 10:29
The weaker ruble helping Russia become the world's biggest wheat exporter, Russia taking market share from her two main rivals.


The international wheat export market, driven by a strong dollar, cheap oil and expanding harvests, is poised to shift this year, with once dominant exporting countries falling behind newly competitive ones, the Wall Street Journal reported Saturday.

Canada, the biggest exporter of wheat, and the United States, which falls second behind Canada, is set to fall behind Russia during this year’s harvest. Russia is poised to export 23.5 million tons of wheat this year, an increase of 3 percent, while Canada is set to export 20.5 million tons and the U.S. is set to export 21.8 million tons, the lowest level in 44 years.
http://www.ibtimes.com/international-wheat-market-russia-set-become-largest-exporter-crop-us-farmers-hurt-2297010

Armoured
08-02-2016, 11:35
My point about cheese was that whoever posted about it was being a bit of a hypocrite, once you consider all the "fake" and "enhanced" food in the West. Not only the added chemicals, but mislabeling. Is a McDonald's "Cheese Stick" which consists of more bread than cheese properly called a "cheese stick"? Or should it be called a "bread stick"?

I don't know, is a cheese sandwich the correct term? Anyway, that's not what the case in question is about, it's about whether the cheese filling is indeed only mozzarella as McD's claims.

At any rate, this RBC article is pretty clear that palm oil is everywhere in Russian food. Not obvious this is better in RUssia than elsewhere:
http://www.rbc.ru/business/08/02/2016/56b4c76a9a7947e2a3655cdb?from=rbc_choice

Note this does _not_ cover the issue of palm oil being illegally used in cheese (not cheese products or similar) and not being marked, as found by Russia's own Rosselkhoznadzor. This is outright fraud, not a dispute over what should and should not be labelled.


The Moscow Whines is an agenda-driven rag. Easy to read, because it's in English, but with carefully-selected stories, more design than "news," overall little more than propaganda.

Whatever you feel about the Moscow Times, a lot of the time its articles (not opinion pieces) are direct translation of pieces in Russian press, or covering the same stories.

The 'fake cheese' / palm oil story was covered extensively by Russian press. In fact, I'd say it was the top news story in Russian print media when it came out, although seems to have been covered less by state television.

americaninmoscow
08-02-2016, 13:22
@ armoured-

great article from RBK.

regarding palm oil, i had no idea the problem was that bad- (google translate)

In the case of the introduction of new excise duties will be the most critical as the time the excise tax on palm oil, says consultant consulting group "NEO Centre" Andrew Zhiharev. "The scale of the use of palm oil is enormous: is now almost impossible to find a cookie or wafer without palm oil, - he says. - Glazed curd cakes, cookies, candy, cakes, pastries, dairy desserts and even chocolate - a far from complete list of products, which has almost no content without palm oil. " According to the "Sun Products" holding, one of Russia's largest producers of margarine, palm oil content in margarine is 40-60% and in bakery production costs, the share of the confectionery industry of industrial fats and margarines high as 40%.



Подробнее на РБК:
http://www.rbc.ru/business/08/02/2016/56b4c76a9a7947e2a3655cdb?from=rbc_choice

Armoured
08-02-2016, 13:29
regarding palm oil, i had no idea the problem was that bad- (google translate)

This article did not mention, but previous coverage (in Russian press) made a big deal about the fact that Russia had (has? dunno) no specific technical standards for palm oil - so on top of widespread use of palm oil, the imports of so-called 'industrial' palm oil had gone through the roof, and that this type of palm oil was not really meant to be used in food.

The implication was that effectively Russian food-processing industry was using incredibly sub-standard palm oil because it was dirt cheap, and potentially dangerous.

I don't know enough about palm oil or the standards to say whether that has any basis in fact or how bad it is, but Russian press was certainly making it sound terrible.

Nobbynumbnuts
08-02-2016, 18:57
The weaker ruble helping Russia become the world's biggest wheat exporter, Russia taking market share from her two main rivals.


http://www.ibtimes.com/international-wheat-market-russia-set-become-largest-exporter-crop-us-farmers-hurt-2297010

..Russia will export 3% more wheat this year than it did last year. 3%

FatAndy
08-02-2016, 19:19
:emote_popcorn:

Judge
08-02-2016, 19:19
..Russia will export 3% more wheat this year than it did last year. 3%

Yes , I read that part too,3%, just a few more rubles for the coffers, and the demand for Russian wheat is growing, expect more of an increase in the future ,a fight for customers ,just like oil and gas, agricultural will soon become Russia's second biggest export after energy.

Judge
08-02-2016, 19:30
:emote_popcorn:

I hope that's Russian popcorn you're eating there. :smug:

FatAndy
08-02-2016, 20:00
I hope that's Russian popcorn you're eating there. :smug:
Semki!!!
Although Perekrestok sells even dietic popcorn with fructose iirc.

Nobbynumbnuts
08-02-2016, 22:15
.........and the demand for Russian wheat is growing, expect more of an increase in the future ,a fight for customers ,just like oil and gas, agricultural will soon become Russia's second biggest export after energy.

Maybe....

Russian Lad
08-02-2016, 23:10
.........and the demand for Russian wheat is growing, expect more of an increase in the future ,a fight for customers ,just like oil and gas, agricultural will soon become Russia's second biggest export after energy.

Wheat, hemp, honey, fur, women, gas, oil, metals. It is a rather short exports list and all of it - commodities, nothing with added value. Doubt even the real Nigeria envies its Snowy Sister in silence.:smug:

Fantastika
09-02-2016, 03:38
I hope that's Russian popcorn you're eating there. :smug:

I just noticed this today...microwave popcorn from the cob!

29731

Rather expensive. A regular 2-pound bag on non-microwave popcorn is $1-$2.

Fantastika
09-02-2016, 03:45
Wheat, hemp, honey, fur, women, gas, oil, metals. It is a rather short exports list and all of it - commodities, nothing with added value. Doubt even the real Nigeria envies its Snowy Sister in silence.:smug:

You're not looking at the big picture. Long-term, the demand and prices for farm commodities can only grow, as the world's population continue to grow, more people demand more grains and more and better food (such as beef instead of pork, turkey instead of chicken), and as arable land available shrinks.

Likewise, long term, the world-wide demand for mineral commodities can only grow, as more people have more money and demand more things - autos, electronics, etc.

Russia is in an enviable position, with lots of arable land, and untold mineral resources.

Russian Lad
09-02-2016, 04:21
Russia is in an enviable position, with lots of arable land, and untold mineral resources.

USA have even more arable land than Russia, even India has more arable land. So what? Your point is moot. Have you asked your friend in Samara what I asked you to ask? Or you are just trolling?

Fantastika
09-02-2016, 05:12
USA have even more arable land than Russia, even India has more arable land. So what? Your point is moot. Have you asked your friend in Samara what I asked you to ask? Or you are just trolling?

Yes, I am going to ask them, "Are you miserable about your country, and your parents' and grandparents' horrible pensions?" You want me to ask them that? :rofl: Maybe they are "Kvas patriots"! Zhirinovsky voters!

Does Liechtenstein and San Marino also have more arable land than Russia? :rofl:

Did you take my advice about buying Kruggerands? Too bad, they are up 10% since 3 weeks ago, and will gain more every day until the oil mess is resolved, and the economies of the world shake off Obama-itis.

Fantastika
09-02-2016, 05:27
Whatever you feel about the Moscow Times, a lot of the time its articles (not opinion pieces) are direct translation of pieces in Russian press, or covering the same stories.

The 'fake cheese' / palm oil story was covered extensively by Russian press. In fact, I'd say it was the top news story in Russian print media when it came out, although seems to have been covered less by state television.

Well, then that kind of puts the kabosh on the Western claim that Russia has absolutely no freedom of the press or media. Just more hypocrisy from Western media whining about something they had, lost, and now don't know how to find, or want to find..

The Moscow Whines is biased. The first bias I noticed was in the careful and managed selection of stories. Let's say there are many "news stories" or "news items" available to be presented to the public - Russian production of X is up, Russian production of Y is down. Moscow Whines will print the Y story and omit the X story. Somehow, nearly all of the stories in the Moscow Whines are negative and derogatory. After I noticed this, the newspaper lost all credibility.

I call this the "bias of selectivity." There are many other areas of bias, if you look carefully. I could write a book to detail all the systems and methods of intentional and unintentional media bias, but why bother to illuminate the bugs crawling under a rock, unless you have a can of Raid (a solution).

Judge
09-02-2016, 06:22
Wheat, hemp, honey, fur, women, gas, oil, metals. It is a rather short exports list and all of it - commodities, nothing with added value. Doubt even the real Nigeria envies its Snowy Sister in silence.:smug:

It's nice to have so many commodities to sell,maybe Nigeria does envy,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35458459

Russian Lad
09-02-2016, 13:31
Does Liechtenstein and San Marino also have more arable land than Russia?

Have you decided to prove to me you are miserably uneducated? Ok, here is some info to help you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arable_land



Are you miserable about your country, and your parents' and grandparents' horrible pensions?" You want me to ask them that?

I told you specifically what to ask, it is not what you have mentioned. It may sober up your friend a bit, but I don't count on that much. The disease most of my fellow-countrymen are suffering from, I am afraid, will have to go through all the way, down to the most acute phase.


It's nice to have so many commodities to sell,maybe Nigeria does envy,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35458459

Didn't major Russian banks ask the evil and hated West for the opportunity to get credits just last week, something they haven't been able to do since 2013? I am not following that, wonder what the response was. Bet the hated Western bankers peed their pants laughing (http://korrespondent.net/business/economics/3625637-rf-prosyt-zarubezhnye-banky-razmestyt-svoy-oblyhatsyy).
Down below you can see the comparison chart telling us Russia and Nigeria have a lot in common:
29734

Fantastika
09-02-2016, 19:15
Have you decided to prove to me you are miserably uneducated? Ok, here is some info to help you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arable_land

I'm sure with a crash $billion-dollar research program, and some basic terraforming, we could turn the tundra into arable land! :) Don't you watch/read science fiction? ("Fantastika") :)

And there is also untold wealth in minerals in Siberia. But not in Nigeria.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-02-2016, 07:40
This is going to need some serious spin! :winking:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/559113.html

Moscow Airports Lose $76 Million From Flight Bans

Financial losses for Moscow's airports from Russia's ban on flights to Turkey, Egypt and Ukraine amount to 6 billion rubles ($76 million), according to Domodedovo Airport's acting director Denis Nuzhdin, the Interfax news agency reported Tuesday.

The biggest loss — more than 3 billion rubles — resulted from restrictions on flights to Turkey, Nuzhdin said...

Judge
11-02-2016, 14:25
Nobs, you forgot to post the follow up article,

Russian-Turkish trade fell by nearly 25 percent last year, the Interfax news agency reported Tuesday, citing Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrei Karlov.

Trade turnover between Russia and Turkey totaled $30 billion in 2014, but in 2015 it fell to $23 billion, Karlov said in an interview with state-owned Rossiya 24 television channel, adding that it will continue to fall in 2016.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-turkish-trade-down-25-in-2015/559074.html

Armoured
11-02-2016, 14:31
Nobs, you forgot to post the follow up article,

Russian-Turkish trade fell by nearly 25 percent last year, the Interfax news agency reported Tuesday, citing Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrei Karlov.

Trade turnover between Russia and Turkey totaled $30 billion in 2014, but in 2015 it fell to $23 billion, Karlov said in an interview with state-owned Rossiya 24 television channel, adding that it will continue to fall in 2016.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-turkish-trade-down-25-in-2015/559074.html

In 2014, Russian exports to turkey were $25 billion, and oil about $16 billion. Since the plane incident happened late in the year, most of the fall in trade is likely just lower oil prices.

Funny the ambassador didn't specify.

Judge
11-02-2016, 15:28
In 2014, Russian exports to turkey were $25 billion, and oil about $16 billion. Since the plane incident happened late in the year, most of the fall in trade is likely just lower oil prices.

Funny the ambassador didn't specify.

Add the loss of Russian tourism to Turkey, that's worth about $7bn a year.

Armoured
11-02-2016, 15:45
Add the loss of Russian tourism to Turkey, that's worth about $7bn a year.

Sure, I don't know the figures for that. Just pointing out that the fall in the 'trade balance' figures on which the Russian ambassador is quoted has very little to do with the spin that has been put on this.

Russian Lad
11-02-2016, 17:07
Euro 91. Nine rubles to go to reach the target.:tongue:

Judge
11-02-2016, 17:17
Sure, I don't know the figures for that. Just pointing out that the fall in the 'trade balance' figures on which the Russian ambassador is quoted has very little to do with the spin that has been put on this.


It could be a wide range of goods, not only oil and gas prices, the last holidays alone probably cost Turkey close to $1bn from a loss of Russian tourists.

Turkey faces big losses as Russia sanctions bite - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35209987

Of course it's a two way street, both countries suffer.

Armoured
11-02-2016, 17:27
It could be a wide range of goods, not only oil and gas prices, the last holidays alone probably cost Turkey close to $1bn from a loss of Russian tourists.

Sure, but unlikely - that happened in late November, and tourism figures are not reflected directly in import/export figures. Whereas oil fits the numbers very well: oil exports to turkey was $16 bln, then trade fell by $7 billion the next year. Oil was avg $85 in 2015, ~45 average in 2015. So oil falling by a bit less than half would easily account for $7 billion. (Note the balance of most other Russian exports is also largely commodities, which also fell...)

So the easiest and obvious explanation is that Russia-Turkey bilateral trade figures fell primarily due to a fall in prices of Russian exports (even at the same physical volume, would mostly have fallen by that much).

This doesn't tell us how well Turkey is doing (or Russia), just that the bilateral drop in trade in money terms 2014-15 is easily explained by Russia selling the same stuff for less money.

Judge
11-02-2016, 17:28
Sure, I don't know the figures for that. Just pointing out that the fall in the 'trade balance' figures on which the Russian ambassador is quoted has very little to do with the spin that has been put on this.

Clicked edit on this post by mistake, hard to type outdoors

Fantastika
11-02-2016, 19:01
Euro 91. Nine rubles to go to reach the target.:tongue:

Gold zooming away,
Like a skyrocket today.

Up $47 so far on Friday.

Euro's, Schmeuro's, buy gold.

FatAndy
11-02-2016, 20:48
Funny the ambassador didn't specify.
The ambassador works in coherence with instructions given by MID. As same as any other ambassador of any country. It is called... erhmmmm... yes... agenda. :D

Uncle Wally
11-02-2016, 21:46
Gold zooming away,
Like a skyrocket today.

Up $47 so far on Friday.

Euro's, Schmeuro's, buy gold.



Gold really?

It's just shiny worthless metal. Ask Armored. Paper with dead people printed on it is where it's at.



Actually gold is up $247 since the beginning of this year, what a month and half.

fenrir
11-02-2016, 22:20
Gold really?

It's just shiny worthless metal. Ask Armored. Paper with dead people printed on it is where it's at.



Actually gold is up $247 since the beginning of this year, what a month and half.

And the ruble is down how much? You know, the 'best performing' currency, the future reserve one.

fenrir
11-02-2016, 22:21
Russia Sends Medvedev to Munich Seeking Sanctions Relief

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sends-medvedev-to-munich-seeking-sanctions-relief/559230.html

Uncle Wally
11-02-2016, 22:38
Russia Sends Medvedev to Munich Seeking Sanctions Relief

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sends-medvedev-to-munich-seeking-sanctions-relief/559230.html



How many times do we have to tell you not to read that crap?