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Judge
28-12-2015, 00:29
So, building a HSR in UK is a farce and a joke and building one in Russia is not? And if not, why not?

Again, lacking comprehension skills...
Ask Alan if there is a farce surrounding HS2,he's the expert.

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 00:30
If you have to ask such questions, you won't understand the answer, so ,I won't bother.

This rail line is of primary benefit to China. The area where the train line starts in China is a massive manufacturing region. Russia agreeing to it is probably part/sweetners to ongoing, far larger deals involving oil and gas

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 00:41
Again, lacking comprehension skills...

I fully comprehend that you don't want to answer the question....
So, building a HSR in UK is a farce and a joke and building one in Russia is not? And if not, why not?

Judge
28-12-2015, 00:49
I fully comprehend that you don't want to answer the question....
So, building a HSR in UK is a farce and a joke and building one in Russia is not? And if not, why not?

That's not what I said, again lacking. .

The UK for all I know does need HSR, it might improve business and make life easier for many,but the HS2 deal is turing into one big farce. .Many believe it's a waste of money and should be scrapped. .
Alan, if you are working on this, what's your opinion. .

Here's some info for you naysayers,
http://eng.rzd.ru/statice/public/en?STRUCTURE_ID=4054

Judge
28-12-2015, 00:50
This rail line is of primary benefit to China. The area where the train line starts in China is a massive manufacturing region. Russia agreeing to it is probably part/sweetners to ongoing, far larger deals involving oil and gas

And you asked, what will Russia export. :big-grin:

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 02:19
And you asked, what will Russia export. :big-grin:

Can't find any proof that oil will be shipped to southern China down that rail line. I'm sure oil is already being shipped into one of the adjacent sea ports which would be far easier.

Fantastika
28-12-2015, 02:22
Just checked out of my hotel as Tony Bliar checked in - another former leader of a Western corrupt regime!

Had to relocate to Dubai to escape him! ;)

Did they make him pay in advance? :)

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 02:25
That's not what I said, again lacking. .

The UK for all I know does need HSR, it might improve business and make life easier for many,but the HS2 deal is turing into one big farce. .Many believe it's a waste of money and should be scrapped. .
Alan, if you are working on this, what's your opinion. .

Here's some info for you naysayers,
http://eng.rzd.ru/statice/public/en?STRUCTURE_ID=4054

That's exactly what you are saying.
How do you know HSR in the UK could be a waste of money and some are saying it should be scrapped?

Alan65
28-12-2015, 04:05
Hello Judge

I am working on this its late here and I am trying to discover where the day has gone I will reply in the morning but all in all I think it is good, I am on Phase 2 and northern Power House ....all about redistribution of the economy

Brum is looking good. so is Mancs .....no idea about Leeds or the Jocks....not got there yet ???

Basically HS is good for Britain as it is small enough and also when it come on line it will release local capacity join up airports etc, we will have stations at Heathrow, Brum, Mancs Leeds .....this will encourage low costers ...flights to many European cities.

I just dont see the business model in Moscow Kazan ....or even Moscow Beijieng

Judge
28-12-2015, 06:04
That's exactly what you are saying.
How do you know HSR in the UK could be a waste of money and some are saying it should be scrapped?

We are going round in circles here, I say I heard it in the news ,then you say ,you won't hear the same news in Russian media about HSR, the UK's got a free press, you're like a parrot ..I'll let you play alone :winking:

Judge
28-12-2015, 06:26
Hello Judge

I am working on this its late here and I am trying to discover where the day has gone I will reply in the morning but all in all I think it is good, I am on Phase 2 and northern Power House ....all about redistribution of the economy

Brum is looking good. so is Mancs .....no idea about Leeds or the Jocks....not got there yet ???

Basically HS is good for Britain as it is small enough and also when it come on line it will release local capacity join up airports etc, we will have stations at Heathrow, Brum, Mancs Leeds .....this will encourage low costers ...flights to many European cities.

I just dont see the business model in Moscow Kazan ....or even Moscow Beijieng

Hi, thanks for your reply,

It might make sense on paper, but what about existing lines,many people are annoyed with the route, and of course the cost, keeps increasing. Will there also be a massive difference in travel times.
There is no pleasing all with the route and money spent, there will always be naysayers to everything.


I checked the new time differences (unlike Nobs, I'm not lazy to use google:smile:))
For some routes passengers will save over 30 mins and in some cases, no change at all.
This info is from wiki, a report also says the final cost could even hit £80bn.
The UK HSR is also to connect the UK to the European HSR system ,Paris -Leeds will be 3h 30,this will cut out air travel, no time wasted at airports, of course if the price is right. Maybe in the future ,HSR ,Moscow - Leeds ,it's worth just going for a few pints of Tetley Bitter.

The Moscow-Kazan route isn't just about connecting these two cities, there are also others in between which will also be connected,example Kazan -Nizhny Novgorod,now takes 11h, this will be cut to 1h 40min.Millions of people use this route, life will be made much easier for many, also the ticket pricing, they are trying to keep it low.The latest HSR Moscow -Tver ,recently opened, 160 km, single ticket £3.70.


Reading some more about HS2, the lengh of it all and maybe final price, the Russian HSR ,Moscow to Kazan looks a bargain, £60 bn for the UK (330 miles ), compared to around £13bn(450 miles ) for Russia's HSR.
Maybe employ some Russians to work on HS2 :smile:

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 06:35
.......join up airports etc, we will have stations at Heathrow.........

Didn't they cancel the spur to Heathrow? Crossrail is going there but HS2 isn't i believe.

Judge
28-12-2015, 08:30
Alan, this is from 2012, it shows just how far Russia is lagging behind other countries when it comes to HSR.
High-speed rail: how do we compare to the rest of the world?

http://gu.com/p/34hpf?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages

Russian Lad
28-12-2015, 10:09
Mods, is the time ripe to rename the thread to "Economic collapse in Russia" or you are willing to wait for like six months - a year more, to be more certain?

To help you get back on topic, boys:
The head of Sberbank (Gref): the ruble will continue falling during 2016: http://www.finanz.ru/novosti/valyuty/glava-sberbanka-ozhidaet-prodolzhenie-trenda-na-oslablenie-rublya-v-2016-g-1000976013

Kudrin, the former minister of the RF finances: the bottom of the crisis in Russia has not been reached yet: http://www.interfax.ru/business/487406

Salaried are not paid to Russian state employees in some spheres like МЧС due to the lack of funds: http://www.newsru.com/arch/russia/25dec2015/m4sprim.html

Hard currency exchange rules have been tightened, more severe restrictions and a blossoming black market which will inevitably accelerate the economic crash in Russia seem to be just around the corner: http://www.pravdareport.com/news/russia/25-12-2015/132955-russia_currency_exchange-0/

Armoured
28-12-2015, 10:52
Alan, this is from 2012, it shows just how far Russia is lagging behind other countries when it comes to HSR.
High-speed rail: how do we compare to the rest of the world?

If Kazan-Nizhny is 10 hours, that's an average of 40 km/h. Now, maybe that's including stops and whatnot, but it's clearly pathetic. Improving the average speed to 80km/h would cut the trip to five hours - 80 hardly being a challenging target for an express that stopped only in, say, Cheboksary.

Pardon the simple math, but it's to underline a point: why is high speed rail needed? Wouldn't just fixing the basics be a massive improvement?

High speed rail is generally 200 km/h or faster. It requires huge, huge outlays in money. Getting to 100 or 120 km/h would be really significant and would probably cost a fraction of HSR. If it's a scheduling issue (RZhD seems to prefer overnight), cutting it by only a few hours would make it a very viable short overnight (say, depart at 11, arrive at 6.30 or 7).

Again, I don't know exactly what's going on, but it seems rather likely that either there are a lot of small technical, routing or other changes that would get 80% of the benefit (people and timesaving) at maybe 30% of the cost (the extra cost of high speed vs conventional is not at all linear). For example, sometimes limited or lack of double-track means big delays as trains have to go over to sidings and sit there for a while. Double track next to existing is usually not that hard and a lot cheaper.

If they do that and find the demand is there, _then_ you could make an economic case for HSR.

So why the push for HSR? It would be nice but quite expensive. I'm perhaps overly cynical, but my gut reaction is that it's a lot easier to squeeze extra money (bribes, margins, you name it) for big-ticket high profile projects than for simple fixes.

I don't really want to get into the democracy debate here, but if there were a real opposition in parliament, they would be screaming about why this extra spending on one high profile HSR line while other lines and directions have the same issue. Investment in infrastructure may be good in a generalized sense - but getting Nizhny-Kazan to under two hours means that money is not being spent to upgrade Moscow-Bryansk, Volgograd, etc., etc. If they all have the same issues it seems likely they could cut travelling times by half to a number of destinations for the same money.

Armoured
28-12-2015, 12:18
All this talk of high-speed rail to China in order to allow goods transit at ever-higher speeds reminds me of Day of the Oprichnik, a Sorokin novel.

In that book, instead of a petro-state dependent on oil, Russia (with a restored monarchy and even greater concentration of power at the top) is reduced to a transit state. All the money is made by extracting money from the Chinese shipping goods to Europe, generally through various games with 'correct customs documents' and the like. Within the state, the whole game is seeing which clan within the government gets to keep the rent they squeeze out of the Chinese.

Plus ca change. ))

In real life, sure, 10 days from Shanghai to Moscow is pretty good compared to five-six weeks by sea. But in actuality, that works for shipments to Russia (where a substantial portion would have to be sent further on to Moscow and other markets) - a shrinking market - but is actually up against pretty tough competition for transit to Europe. Shipping by sea is slow but quite cheap, by air is very fast but expensive - not _that_ expensive, however, and also bypasses interim issues with customs and border clearance and the like. I'm not saying rail doesn't have some advantages - for example, for stuff that is too heavy to be cost-effective by air but still somewhat time sensitive - but the competition from two other modes means there's a limit to how much can be charged for the 'privilege' of extra speed.

And again, would 'high speed' (in the traditional sense of 200 km/h +) really make that big a difference for freight? It would be hugely, hugely expensive. At 200 km/h, and using 7000km Shanghai-Moscow (an underestimation, that is as the crow flies), that would still be a day and a half in transit. Whereas the current 10 days (TolkoRaz or Andy's figure? I don't remember) is an average of 30 km/h. Doubling that average speed to 60km/h would cut it to five days and cost a fraction of what HSR would. And don't forget, even if there is some fraction of goods shipped by rail that is somewhat high value (cars, for example), the vast majority by weight/volume is commodities where speed isn't very important.

Fundamentally HSR is generally a complete non-starter for freight given the low cost of the competition over long distances. For people, even less so - 250 km/h is still awful compared to the standard 850km/h of a jet (who would _choose_ a high speed train for a day and half compared to less than 10 hours, except for sightseeing), and jets require far less infrastructure.

These fantasies of HSR to China are just another example of a complete fantasy intended to extract money from the system for stupid projects. Slow and steady work to boost the average speed to 60-100km/h would be far, far more effective.

Judge
28-12-2015, 12:57
If Kazan-Nizhny is 10 hours, that's an average of 40 km/h. Now, maybe that's including stops and whatnot, but it's clearly pathetic. Improving the average speed to 80km/h would cut the trip to five hours - 80 hardly being a challenging target for an express that stopped only in, say, Cheboksary.

Pathetic is putting it kindly, but it will be a pleasant journey, like all slow trains here, but this also turns people off from using slow trains. The existing train probably stops loads of times in small towns, villages, most people who travel between cities want to get to A to B without the in between.Question is ,with the HSR will they cancel the service that's being used now. One of the problems I think with the Sapsan to st petes was they used existing tracks,which stopped,slowed down many of the slower trains .




Pardon the simple math, but it's to underline a point: why is high speed rail needed? Wouldn't just fixing the basics be a massive improvement?


Above you said, at 80 km/h journey will take 5 hrs, that's still long, HSR ,3h 40min,leave at 5am Kazan, in Moscow by 9am ,in your office or meeting by 10 am.




Again, I don't know exactly what's going on, but it seems rather likely that either there are a lot of small technical, routing or other changes that would get 80% of the benefit (people and timesaving) at maybe 30% of the cost (the extra cost of high speed vs conventional is not at all linear). For example, sometimes limited or lack of double-track means big delays as trains have to go over to sidings and sit there for a while. Double track next to existing is usually not that hard and a lot cheaper.

If they do that and find the demand is there, _then_ you could make an economic case for HSR.

So why the push for HSR? It would be nice but quite expensive. I'm perhaps overly cynical, but my gut reaction is that it's a lot easier to squeeze extra money (bribes, margins, you name it) for big-ticket high profile projects than for simple fixes.

I don't really want to get into the democracy debate here, but if there were a real opposition in parliament, they would be screaming about why this extra spending on one high profile HSR line while other lines and directions have the same issue. Investment in infrastructure may be good in a generalized sense - but getting Nizhny-Kazan to under two hours means that money is not being spent to upgrade Moscow-Bryansk, Volgograd, etc., etc. If they all have the same issues it seems likely they could cut travelling times by half to a number of destinations for the same money


Sorry, I don't have the time to reply to all your post(will try later when I have more time) , but the cost isn't high if you think about it, compare to other hsr projects, like in UK and the most recent California High-Speed Rail.

Armoured
28-12-2015, 13:24
Pathetic is putting it kindly, but it will be a pleasant journey, like all slow trains here, but this also turns people off from using slow trains. The existing train probably stops loads of times in small towns, villages, most people who travel between cities want to get to A to B without the in between.
...
Above you said, at 80 km/h journey will take 5 hrs, that's still long, HSR ,3h 40min,leave at 5am Kazan, in Moscow by 9am ,in your office or meeting by 10 am.

If the issue between Kazan and Nizhny is that it stops in every village, then it's a software issue, not a hardware issue - they're not offering express trains. Why not? Well, the most obvious reason is that there's probably not enough demand.

More realistically, it's probably a combination of things, but still points to an underlying issue - demand, management, market, some combination of technical - that doesn't require a hugely expensive project.

And feel free to use some other number or target than 80 km/h - I was just using that as a fairly simple example. The _equipment_ is probably easily capable of 100km/h on old-style track without too much issue, more if they smooth out curves and other issues that require them to reduce speed. (For HSR, they'd have to do much, much more of that - basically build an entirely new line - of jointless track, with absolutely zero level crossings).

As for Moscow-Kazan, sure, it would be nice. But Kazan is about a million people and 800 km or so from Moscow - roughly that between Paris and Berlin (as crow flies in both cases). Probably ballpark 8X the population density. How many trains a day do you need it to make sense, or put differently, how many planes a day would cover the same demand (easily)?

Anyway, I'm just arguing pure economics - I don't see how it begins to make sense. And I don't have much faith others are doing the sums in a realistic way. (If they were, why haven't they been fixing the issues with the existing service?)


Sorry, I don't have the time to reply to all your post(will try later when I have more time) , but the cost isn't high if you think about it, compare to other hsr projects, like in UK and the most recent California High-Speed Rail.

Leaving aside the cost differences and estimations, I don't think that comparison makes any sense at all. Nobody's making a trade-off between building California HSR vs Moscow-Kazan HSR - they're, like, in different countries.

In real life, the trade-off _in Russia_ is between building this fantasy project and imporving rail service throughout European Russia and (for example) improving rail service speeds by 50% for a large number of cities. (Or funding hopsitals, or electrichkas, or whatever other favourite use you have for the Russian budget). Seriously, what would it cost to cut Kazan-Nizhny to four hours? One or two billion? Would you say cutting it to two hours is worth the extra $10 billion or so? What would be your cut-off to say it's worthwhile?

That's what a _real_ discussion would be covering.

Armoured
28-12-2015, 13:34
Back to Russian economy (as opposed to ways to waste money), Ruble at almost 72.5 to the dollar, almost eighty to the Euro, and Brent at ~$37.

I don't know what the causes are, but adding extra forms to buy/sell dollars doesn't seem to have helped.

fenrir
28-12-2015, 13:39
Back to Russian economy (as opposed to ways to waste money), Ruble at almost 72.5 to the dollar, almost eighty to the Euro, and Brent at ~$37.

I don't know what the causes are, but adding extra forms to buy/sell dollars doesn't seem to have helped.

I was literally going to post the same thing.

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 14:03
Back to Russian economy (as opposed to ways to waste money), Ruble at almost 72.5 to the dollar, almost eighty to the Euro, and Brent at ~$37.

I don't know what the causes are, but adding extra forms to buy/sell dollars doesn't seem to have helped.

This was always on the cards as the ruble fell lower. If oil continues to tumble and the ruble follows it down then there will surely be more exchange controls. Which while they make sense from a bureaucratic standpoint they only exacerbate negative feeling and demand for hard currency.
With the negative outlook, who's really wants to be holding rubles beyond short term cashflow needs?

Armoured
28-12-2015, 14:20
Siberian surprise: Russia just keeps on pumping.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-20/siberian-surprise-russian-oil-patch-just-keeps-pumping

This piece will surely be argued about here: it's a bit of glass half-full / half-empty. On the one hand, RUssia's oil output is up, surprising many, but there are warning signs in there.

I think it's an interesting sign there that most of the discussion is about companies like Bashneft, not the bigs. Or at least less about the bigs.

But probably the key part is that for Russian oil companies, _they get no additional benefit_ from oil prices above ~$40 due to the tax structure. So the biggest thing that has changed for them is that their costs fell (compared to the currency they earn in).

So my view is it makes sense they increased production- from their perspective, the actually have more incentive to produce than they did before.

Now for the big "but": BUT with oil at $40, apparently the inflection point for the tax structure changes. I _think_ that means that they start sharing the pain of lower oil prices. And if oil moves lower, it starts making their decisions about producing more much harder - they will start cutting off production at more wells.

And so I _think_ that means the pressure on the ruble will double up (intensify) if oil keeps going down in price. (Which to some degree will moderate the drop in production, as it reduces their costs further, but that will only go so far). I also don't want to exaggerate this part because (like elsewhere in the world like USA and Canada), well-run cmpanies are very good at cutting costs and moving more resources to the cheapest production wells.

So my takeaway from this piece is that I _think_ the next leg down in oil prices will be very much harder on the Russian economy and ruble than currently predicted. (If, of course, oil prices fall further, and I for one never predict oil prices).

Sorry for underlining the _think_ above, but it's actually a very complicated topic, and I'm not running economic models in my head while I sleep (I actually dream mostly about the ladies, I just don't talk about it all the time)).

fenrir
28-12-2015, 16:42
Russian GDP Shrinks First Time Since June as Longer Slump Looms

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-28/russian-gdp-shrinks-first-time-since-june-as-longer-slump-looms?cmpid=yhoo.headline

The article goes on to state that the ruble is the 3rd worst performing currency right now. That should get Wally's attention. Not too long back, he was bragging how the ruble was the top performing currency in the world.

Russian Lad
28-12-2015, 16:58
This was always on the cards as the ruble fell lower. If oil continues to tumble and the ruble follows it down then there will surely be more exchange controls. Which while they make sense from a bureaucratic standpoint they only exacerbate negative feeling and demand for hard currency.
With the negative outlook, who's really wants to be holding rubles beyond short term cashflow needs?

Here in Saint Pete we have a kosher culture of valutchiks that flourished in the past. I remember exchanging euros and dollars outside using the help of total strangers back in 1998 and even in 2008 because the rates inside banks weren't convenient. If they get more controls in place, they will have to face a huge black market - it is always flexible and on the move, impossible to eliminate. There were ways to get and to sell hard currency even when one could get in jail for possessing it back in USSR. :tongue:

Armoured
28-12-2015, 17:17
Oh, those nutty non-systemic opposition and crazy types from Bolotnaya:

Политика, направленная на изоляцию, губительна для развития страны.

«К чему ведет изоляция? К тому, что мы не получаем притока капитала, новых технологий, новых знаний. В глобальном соревновании мы теряем свои позиции. И никакими оборонными расходами эти позиции не заменить. С точки зрения продолжения этой линии она абсолютно губительна для страны. Для ее человеческого капитала и развития».

По его словам, страна объективно заинтересована в том, чтобы разрешить конфликты со своими соседями, «с Западом, который во многом определяет правила игры на финансовом рынке».

«Необходимо выйти из тренда на изоляцию и сменить его на сотрудничество».

Он подчеркнул, что военные возможности страны определяются размерами ее экономики. «Если кому-то кажется, что это не так, то жизнь исправит это очень быстро. У любой внешней политики есть объективные ограничения через ее экономический потенциал».


Which one infected by the madness of the bloodthristy crowds? Mikhail Задорнов, president of VTB-24.

[Can't help but wonder how soon he'll be canned for straying off the 'managed democracy' industrial peoplefarm.]

Russian Lad
28-12-2015, 17:43
Our kvas comrades must be busy lining up in obmenniks to purchase the remaining hard currency while it is still relatively cheap and available, Armoured. They don't have time for us today.:love:
By the way, I had a few vodkas with a communist with a huge DNR blazon on his military uniform just a few days ago, he is back from Donetsk. What is funny, he doesn't like basically what I don't like, in many ways, let's put it this way. At this current juncture real liberals and real communists seem to have the same goals... We shook hands and expressed the certainty that really funny times lie ahead...

Judge
28-12-2015, 18:41
As for Moscow-Kazan, sure, it would be nice. But Kazan is about a million people and 800 km or so from Moscow - roughly that between Paris and Berlin (as crow flies in both cases). Probably ballpark 8X the population density. How many trains a day do you need it to make sense, or put differently, how many planes a day would cover the same demand (easily)?

It's not only for Kazan ,other places like Nizhny Novgorod to Kazan will be down from 10 hrs to under 2hrs,Moscow Kazan is 14 hrs,,other places are,Vladimir Cheboksary, all connected to this first phase,that's way over a million people with fast access to HSR.Later it will be connected to Yekaterinburg and Perm.
Then you have the easily over a million people going to the above places from Moscow, who also will benefit.








Leaving aside the cost differences and estimations, I don't think that comparison makes any sense at all. Nobody's making a trade-off between building California HSR vs Moscow-Kazan HSR - they're, like, in different countries.

This is the first of its kind in Russia, so nothing to compare with, you said "quite expensive" compared to the other two HSR and amount of people that will be using it and ticket prices ,even lenghts are roughly the same.Building motorways, Russia per mile is one of the most expensive, good to see its not then same for rail.


In real life, the trade-off _in Russia_ is between building this fantasy project and imporving rail service throughout European Russia and (for example) improving rail service speeds by 50% for a large number of cities. (Or funding hopsitals, or electrichkas, or whatever other favourite use you have for the Russian budget). Seriously, what would it cost to cut Kazan-Nizhny to four hours? One or two billion? Would you say cutting it to two hours is worth the extra $10 billion or so? What would be your cut-off to say it's worthwhile?


Kazan-Nizhny ,I posted above the new times, under 2 hrs, from a massive 10 hrs.
This whole discussion started cos of foreign funding, it's not all coming out of the Russian budget.

And last, it will pay for itself in a few years,


The multiplier effect generated during the operation stage will generate additional tax revenues of RUB 2.3 trillion at all levels of government for the period of 2019-2030, which is more than the total cost of the project.


That's what a _real_ discussion would be covering.
The real discussion is that Russia won't have trains huffing and puffing along at 40 km/h from major cities that hold millions of people. .

Again, sorry for missing some posts, typing this outside at -10, tablet is working as slow as a Russian train. :drink:

One last thing, this project will put 400000 people in work for a long time,that's good money in many families pockets. .Elections are coming soon, more work for the regions is a winner for all...

fenrir
28-12-2015, 19:58
It's not only for Kazan ,other places like Nizhny Novgorod to Kazan will be down from 10 hrs to under 2hrs,Moscow Kazan is 14 hrs,,other places are,Vladimir Cheboksary, all connected to this first phase,that's way over a million people with fast access to HSR.Later it will be connected to Yekaterinburg and Perm.
Then you have the easily over a million people going to the above places from Moscow, who also will benefit.









This is the first of its kind in Russia, so nothing to compare with, you said "quite expensive" compared to the other two HSR and amount of people that will be using it and ticket prices ,even lenghts are roughly the same.Building motorways, Russia per mile is one of the most expensive, good to see its not then same for rail.



Kazan-Nizhny ,I posted above the new times, under 2 hrs, from a massive 10 hrs.
This whole discussion started cos of foreign funding, it's not all coming out of the Russian budget.

And last, it will pay for itself in a few years,




The real discussion is that Russia won't have trains huffing and puffing along at 40 km/h from major cities that hold millions of people. .

Again, sorry for missing some posts, typing this outside at -10, tablet is working as slow as a Russian train. :drink:

One last thing, this project will put 400000 people in work for a long time,that's good money in many families pockets. .Elections are coming soon, more work for the regions is a winner for all...

In Post 2447, you said this white elephant project would provide work for 10,000s. Now you've upped the figure to 400,000. Inflation? I guess all the civil servants being laid off can lay track.

fenrir
28-12-2015, 20:04
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-central-bank-declares-shortage-of-banned-food-items/552770.html

I hope the train project goes better than the local food industry is. Where are all the loud mouths who proclaimed how Russian producers would step up production and make up for all the evil Western imports? What about the so-called 'import substitution' program.

Judge
28-12-2015, 20:10
In Post 2447, you said this white elephant project would provide work for 10,000s. Now you've upped the figure to 400,000. Inflation? I guess all the civil servants being laid off can lay track.

Then I didn't know the exact figures, google is your friend, 400000, 1/3 of estonia population. .:dizzy:

Armoured
28-12-2015, 20:11
Then you have the easily over a million people going to the above places from Moscow, who also will benefit.

it sounds like a big number but it's not so much. Or at least, devoid of analysis. It really logically needs to be compared to the cost of the alternatives.


This is the first of its kind in Russia, so nothing to compare with, you said "quite expensive" compared to the other two HSR and amount of people that will be using it and ticket prices ,even lenghts are roughly the same.Building motorways, Russia per mile is one of the most expensive, good to see its not then same for rail.

You always find a positive even if it's totally irrelevant. Who cares if it's cheaper than in the UK? I said 'quite expensive' compared to the alternative of fixing the existing rail network - say, getting the speeds up to 100 km/h from the current 40.


This whole discussion started cos of foreign funding, it's not all coming out of the Russian budget.

That's a howler. There's no way the private sector will pay for this. That's just a lie they tell to fools.


And last, it will pay for itself in a few years,

No way. Even in the best cases, these things pay for themselves in decades at best. And again, should be compared to what other spending and how effective that would be.


The real discussion is that Russia won't have trains huffing and puffing along at 40 km/h from major cities that hold millions of people. .


Yes, it will. In all the other places they _don't_ spend money on this project instead of all of the other places.


One last thing, this project will put 400000 people in work for a long time,that's good money in many families pockets. .Elections are coming soon, more work for the regions is a winner for all...

Ha. Numbers totally made up.

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 20:16
....You always find a positive even if it's totally irrelevant......

I think the FSB are putting something in his water...:winking:

But never mind, elections are coming up soon!! :big-grin:

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 20:24
.....No way. Even in the best cases, these things pay for themselves in decades at best. And again, should be compared to what other spending and how effective that would be......

This is true. If it were, building it would be a no brainer and Russia would have a building program to rival China's....

Judge
28-12-2015, 20:40
it sounds like a big number but it's not so much. Or at least, devoid of analysis. It really logically needs to be compared to the cost of the alternatives.


It's big enough, there is no denying, millions of people will benefit from HSR, look at how many work in a moscow who come from these cities, the price will be cheaper than flying, no need for a trip to the airports, stay in the centre and off you go


You always find a positive even if it's totally irrelevant. Who cares if it's cheaper than in the UK? I said 'quite expensive' compared to the alternative of fixing the existing rail network - say, getting the speeds up to 100 km/h from the current 40.

What's the cost of fixing existing networks and will there be a massive improvement, like 9 hours cut from the Nizhny-Kazan time? It will probably still cost billions to upgrade all the networks, and I bet, the naysayers will still speak out, you mentioned corruption earlier, so add a few billion to this total,isn't that your usual line.





That's a howler. There's no way the private sector will pay for this. That's just a lie they tell to fools.

The Chinese might put up $5bn ,the Germans $2bn , Russia will pay for some of it, after all, hopefully they will own it, not sell it all off to a foreign company.




No way. Even in the best cases, these things pay for themselves in decades at best. And again, should be compared to what other spending and how effective that would be.

Let's discuss this in 2030, if I'm wrong I'll be you a drink..



Ha. Numbers totally made up.


This number is not even foreign workers like in Germany who will help out,an international joint effort,Chinese money, German and Russian engineering. ..:cool:

Don't worry guys, it will be built, there will be problems on the way, but the job will be done and millions will benefit, just like with Sochi, all the negativity around it, more and more Russians are enjoying Sochi. .

Armoured, one last thing about the UK hs2, the Russian HSR will be up and running by the time the UK start laying tracks., the UK will still be discussing plans, holding meeting, protesting, cost ballooning to £100bn, here's some good old UK corruption for you, 48 guys who are working on HS2 are being paid annually more than the UK PM, so far ,not one track in down. ..If the Cons lose the next election ,HS2 is heading for the scrap heat..

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 21:13
....millions of people will benefit from HSR, look at how many work in a moscow who come from these cities, the price will be cheaper than flying, no need for a trip to the airports, stay in the centre and off you go........

Potentially. Not least, tickets would have to be priced competitively and the more competitive they are, the longer to recoup initial investment.

Judge
28-12-2015, 21:20
Potentially. Not least, tickets would have to be priced competitively and the more competitive they are, the longer to recoup initial investment.

The new Tver - Moscow service is under 4 quid,in time they will make back their money. ...what you guys are all mistaken in is that it's not all about turning a quick profit, it's about helping out the people, making life easier for them...Not some fat cat shareholders who just think about profits. .

Armoured
28-12-2015, 21:28
It's big enough, there is no denying, millions of people will benefit from HSR, look at how many work in a moscow who come from these cities, the price will be cheaper than flying, no need for a trip to the airports, stay in the centre and off you go

If that's the criteria, just give everyone free airplane tickets. Seriously, do the math: what would an airplane ticket cost if the airlines had guaranteed travel, government paying? $200? That would be 65 _million_ plane trips.


What's the cost of fixing existing networks and will there be a massive improvement, like 9 hours cut from the Nizhny-Kazan time? It will probably still cost billions to upgrade all the networks, and I bet, the naysayers will still speak out, you mentioned corruption earlier, so add a few billion to this total,isn't that your usual line.

I gave my guess at the number - a couple of billion vs. the 13 billion you or someone else quoted. If this were really being looked at carefully, we would know these numbers.


Let's discuss this in 2030, if I'm wrong I'll be you a drink..


Wait - you said it would pay for itself in a few years - but now it's fifteen years? (Which would be pretty good for high speed rail...)


Don't worry guys, it will be built, there will be problems on the way, but the job will be done and millions will benefit, just like with Sochi, all the negativity around it, more and more Russians are enjoying Sochi. .

Same story: apart from all the other money, government now bailing out VEB, mostly because of money lost on Sochi. 1.5 trillion rubles I think is the figure? That's $20 billion.

Using your rigorous analysis, they could build a 500 metre gold doughnut and afterwards just say "see, at least people have a doughnut to look at." "Every year, more people enjoy the huge dougnut."


..If the Cons lose the next election ,HS2 is heading for the scrap heat..

I don't know anything about the UK's HS2, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility that scrapping the project might be the right decision. Better to waste the salaries of 48 guys - what, a couple million? - rather than tens of billions.

Armoured
28-12-2015, 21:34
The new Tver - Moscow service is under 4 quid,in time they will make back their money. ...what you guys are all mistaken in is that it's not all about turning a quick profit, it's about helping out the people, making life easier for them...Not some fat cat shareholders who just think about profits. .

Again, you change your story. Is it paying for itself in a few years, or about helping the people? If it's jsut about helping the people, _which_ foreign investors exactly are funding it? It's clearly nonsense. You're using every possible argument even when they contradict each other.

I don't mind someone saying 'let's just pay for it as a public service.' And defend it honestly against the other potential uses for that money, why one region over another, why high speed vs just decent train service (at better than 40 clicks), etc.

But these mixed stories about foreign investors blah blah blah is almost always exactly the garbage that's pitched to get the government subsidies, by saying it's not _really_ government money (oh wait, until VEB - meaning the budget - takes all the losses back later).

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 21:46
The new Tver - Moscow service is under 4 quid,in time they will make back their money. ...what you guys are all mistaken in is that it's not all about turning a quick profit, it's about helping out the people, making life easier for them...Not some fat cat shareholders who just think about profits. .

How do you know they are going to make their money back and that Tver-Moscow (and other routes) won't be a subsidized sweetner for the masses? Governments do it all the time and not just in transport.
I'm not saying HSR won't be successful, i have no way of knowing and neither do you. But just repeating government press releases only gives one side of the story. They will give you want they want you to hear.

The whole point is there needs to be open and vigorous debate. Government should encourage it. Might look a little chaotic but you end with all sides of the story (as close as possible)

TolkoRaz
28-12-2015, 21:53
Isn't it great that as we head towards New Year's celebrations, the Doom & Gloom merchants are peddling their Doom & Gloom! ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 21:58
Isn't it great that as we head towards New Year's celebrations, the Doom & Gloom merchants are peddling their Doom & Gloom! ;)

Isn't it amazing how 25 years after the collapse of the soviet union that Russians are still blindly swallowing bullsh*t?? :sad:

TolkoRaz
28-12-2015, 22:45
24 Years actually! :p

Judge
28-12-2015, 23:19
Again, you change your story. Is it paying for itself in a few years, or about helping the people? If it's jsut about helping the people, _which_ foreign investors exactly are funding it? It's clearly nonsense. You're using every possible argument even when they contradict each other.

I don't mind someone saying 'let's just pay for it as a public service.' And defend it honestly against the other potential uses for that money, why one region over another, why high speed vs just decent train service (at better than 40 clicks), etc.

But these mixed stories about foreign investors blah blah blah is almost always exactly the garbage that's pitched to get the government subsidies, by saying it's not _really_ government money (oh wait, until VEB - meaning the budget - takes all the losses back later).

See my post 2525, "additional tax revenues" about the Kazan -Moscow, Most probably with the amount of passenger that will use the service, it shouldn't take long to make a profit,even when they keep ticket prices low,this is how they will help people, ,not by pricing them out.Sure, they government say one thing, let's see if they are right.

Which foreign investors? the Chinese and from what I posted which started this discussion, the Germans.

Armoured
28-12-2015, 23:41
See my post 2525, "additional tax revenues" about the Kazan -Moscow, Most probably with the amount of passenger that will use the service, it shouldn't take long to make a profit,even when they keep ticket prices low,this is how they will help people, ,not by pricing them out.Sure, they government say one thing, let's see if they are right.

Which foreign investors? the Chinese and from what I posted which started this discussion, the Germans.

So how are the foreign investors going to get paid from this 'multiplier effect'? It doesn't make sense. If it's going to result in increased economic activity, hence tax revenues, then I guess that ... well, what exactly? Is the government going to pay the operators? So really the government's paying them directly? If so, shouldn't it be considering what it could be spending on that money otherwise?

I'm not opposed to government projects in principle, just depends what they cost and what the taxpayers get. And this story doesn't begin to hold water.

I actually believe that government investment can be useful, and the multiplier effect concept is meaningful - but from experience I also know that this is where the biggest lies are told. Even if the numbers aren't nonsense, the multiplier concept does not (and cannot) explain the financing coming from foreigners.

(For example, I personally think the moscow-st pete high speed made and makes a lot of sense, and they should seriously consider spending more to upgrade the capacity there - which I understand they're doing. Even if it doesn't 'pay for itself' directly, Moscow-St Pete are very big markets, and transport between them really critical.)

Alan65
29-12-2015, 00:45
That's not what I said, again lacking. .

The UK for all I know does need HSR, it might improve business and make life easier for many,but the HS2 deal is turing into one big farce. .Many believe it's a waste of money and should be scrapped. .
Alan, if you are working on this, what's your opinion. .

Here's some info for you naysayers,
http://eng.rzd.ru/statice/public/en?STRUCTURE_ID=4054

That article is total horseshit, try reading it

High-speed railway lines are new specialised railway lines designed for trains travelling at speeds of between 200-400 kph.

Where does this exist in Russia

Fast lines are classified as those carrying passengers at speeds of between 140-200 kph on existing but upgraded lines.

i.e. Sapsan Moscow to St Petes

Since December 2009, Moscow, Tver, Novgorod, Leningrad, Vladimir and Nizhny Novgorod regions have been linked by fast and high-speed connections on upgraded infrastructure.

Total contradiction

Russia does not have any dedicated high speed rail lines.

Uncle Wally
29-12-2015, 01:11
So how are the foreign investors going to get paid from this 'multiplier effect'? It doesn't make sense. If it's going to result in increased economic activity, hence tax revenues, then I guess that ... well, what exactly? Is the government going to pay the operators? So really the government's paying them directly? If so, shouldn't it be considering what it could be spending on that money otherwise?

I'm not opposed to government projects in principle, just depends what they cost and what the taxpayers get. And this story doesn't begin to hold water.

I actually believe that government investment can be useful, and the multiplier effect concept is meaningful - but from experience I also know that this is where the biggest lies are told. Even if the numbers aren't nonsense, the multiplier concept does not (and cannot) explain the financing coming from foreigners.

(For example, I personally think the moscow-st pete high speed made and makes a lot of sense, and they should seriously consider spending more to upgrade the capacity there - which I understand they're doing. Even if it doesn't 'pay for itself' directly, Moscow-St Pete are very big markets, and transport between them really critical.)


Why don't you ask them (foreign investors) you keep talking about how much smarter they are than Russians. China I can understand, they want to deliver their goods to Europe faster and cheaper but what's up with those wild and crazy Germans? This maybe just the first faze for China because Kazan is on the way to China but Germany? Anyway German's are investing and why look a gift horse in the mouth?

Uncle Wally
29-12-2015, 01:21
Isn't it amazing how 25 years after the collapse of the soviet union that Russians are still blindly swallowing bullsh*t?? :sad:


It's amazing after (how old are you?) you are still following the lying, cheating, murderous, thieving, bastards that rule your country. Swallowing every thing they feed you and regurgitating the vile, idiocy they spew. It's only a carrot on a stick and that carrot is not for you.

Alan65
29-12-2015, 04:06
Armoured, one last thing about the UK hs2, the Russian HSR will be up and running by the time the UK start laying tracks., the UK will still be discussing plans, holding meeting, protesting, cost ballooning to £100bn, here's some good old UK corruption for you, 48 guys who are working on HS2 are being paid annually more than the UK PM, so far ,not one track in down. ..If the Cons lose the next election ,HS2 is heading for the scrap heat..

Wrong we are in PQQ at the moment for enabling works, the major resistance for HS2 comes from Tory heart lands, it is well supported in the Midlands, North and Scotland.

The UK does not actually need HS2 at the moment, the existing infrastructure is okay, in 10 years time it will be different, one of the key drivers of HS2 is rebalancing of the economy, many companies are relocating to Brum, Mancs etc, all of the key airports will be linked up.....will the Moscow Kazan take in Domodedevo etc, would Moscow St Petes take in Sheremetevo etc.....

From the link you posted earlier

http://eng.rzd.ru/statice/public/en?STRUCTURE_ID=4054

These fast and high-speed trains operated by Russian Railways transport over 3.2 million passengers every year.

That is about 10,000 per day....perhaps someone has got their sums wrong

PS have a look at the date on the heads of terms for the design contract

October 2013 – Moscow ....was only signed a few months ago simply for route alignment )))

You really must try harder Judge, remember Qatar, Saudi etc are are all funding their own railways, at present HS2 is actually part of the CSR in the UK and there is no Chinese, or European Union funding.

Judge
29-12-2015, 06:41
So how are the foreign investors going to get paid from this 'multiplier effect'? It doesn't make sense. If it's going to result in increased economic activity, hence tax revenues, then I guess that ... well, what exactly? Is the government going to pay the operators? So really the government's paying them directly? If so, shouldn't it be considering what it could be spending on that money otherwise?

I'm not opposed to government projects in principle, just depends what they cost and what the taxpayers get. And this story doesn't begin to hold water.

I actually believe that government investment can be useful, and the multiplier effect concept is meaningful - but from experience I also know that this is where the biggest lies are told. Even if the numbers aren't nonsense, the multiplier concept does not (and cannot) explain the financing coming from foreigners.

(For example, I personally think the moscow-st pete high speed made and makes a lot of sense, and they should seriously consider spending more to upgrade the capacity there - which I understand they're doing. Even if it doesn't 'pay for itself' directly, Moscow-St Pete are very big markets, and transport between them really critical.)

Let's wait for the investors to first sigh contracts and maybe then we will see,hard to say when nothing is signed for now. ..
A good boost for the economy,

There will be more than 373,000 workers employed on the construction of the HSR, and they will provide a multiplier effect on the economy.
Due to cumulative effects, the combined growth of GDP from 2019 to 2030 will be RUB 7.2 trillion.
The multiplier effect generated during the operation stage will generate additional tax revenues of RUB 2.3 trillion at all levels of government for the period of 2019-2030, which is more than the total cost of the project.

Here's some news about the Chinese investment,
http://www.think-railways.com/russian-railways-unveils-the-design-concept-of-high-speed-train-for-moscow-kazan-route/

Judge
29-12-2015, 06:58
That article is total horseshit, try reading it

High-speed railway lines are new specialised railway lines designed for trains travelling at speeds of between 200-400 kph.

Where does this exist in Russia

Fast lines are classified as those carrying passengers at speeds of between 140-200 kph on existing but upgraded lines.

i.e. Sapsan Moscow to St Petes

Since December 2009, Moscow, Tver, Novgorod, Leningrad, Vladimir and Nizhny Novgorod regions have been linked by fast and high-speed connections on upgraded infrastructure.

Total contradiction

Russia does not have any dedicated high speed rail lines.

It doesn't say the lines exists, it's just informing what it is, the article then goes on to say,


high-speed connections on upgraded infrastructure
Then about high speed trains, not about high speed lines,these will be first built for the Moacow -Kazan route, which we are discussing. ....
For now, they have only high speed trains on "upgraded infrastructure".


Wrong we are in PQQ at the moment for enabling works, the major resistance for HS2 comes from Tory heart lands, it is well supported in the Midlands, North and Scotland.



HS2 could be going back to the drawing board because of the recent floods..Many are annoyed because money for the HS2 could have been spent on heavy rain defenses. ..The flood might even up the cost a few more £bn..

Judge
29-12-2015, 07:05
Isn't it great that as we head towards New Year's celebrations, the Doom & Gloom merchants are peddling their Doom & Gloom! ;)

One thing they are forgetting is the Russian train culture ....

TolkoRaz
29-12-2015, 09:44
Wrong we are in PQQ at the moment for enabling works, the major resistance for HS2 comes from Tory heart lands, it is well supported in the Midlands, North and Scotland.

The UK does not actually need HS2 at the moment, the existing infrastructure is okay, in 10 years time it will be different, one of the key drivers of HS2 is rebalancing of the economy, many companies are relocating to Brum, Mancs etc, all of the key airports will be linked up.....will the Moscow Kazan take in Domodedevo etc, would Moscow St Petes take in Sheremetevo etc.....

From the link you posted earlier

http://eng.rzd.ru/statice/public/en?STRUCTURE_ID=4054

These fast and high-speed trains operated by Russian Railways transport over 3.2 million passengers every year.

That is about 10,000 per day....perhaps someone has got their sums wrong

PS have a look at the date on the heads of terms for the design contract

October 2013 – Moscow ....was only signed a few months ago simply for route alignment )))

You really must try harder Judge, remember Qatar, Saudi etc are are all funding their own railways, at present HS2 is actually part of the CSR in the UK and there is no Chinese, or European Union funding.

If the UK is to waste / invest in improving their rail system, I sincerely hope that that they ensure that the wrong type of leaves or wrong type of snow does not bring the network to a grinding halt as has been experienced before. ;)

At least trains in the RF operate in all extreme weathers and tend to be most reliable.

Armoured
29-12-2015, 10:49
Why don't you ask them (foreign investors) you keep talking about how much smarter they are than Russians.

I've said nothing of the sort.


China I can understand, they want to deliver their goods to Europe faster and cheaper but what's up with those wild and crazy Germans? This maybe just the first faze for China because Kazan is on the way to China but Germany?

Goods won't be delivered by high-speed rail. Maybe post and some lighter stuff but mostly irrelevant for merchandise.


Anyway German's are investing and why look a gift horse in the mouth?

It's been announced but who's the investor? Show us.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Armoured
29-12-2015, 12:06
Euro above 80/per.

Russian Lad
29-12-2015, 15:38
Euro above 80/per.


Cool, 20 more rubles to go. Before the kvas patriots know it.:)


Isn't it great that as we head towards New Year's celebrations, the Doom & Gloom merchants are peddling their Doom & Gloom!

You prefer розовые сопли в ванильной глазури с шоколадными отливами?:party:

fenrir
29-12-2015, 15:39
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/warning-turbulence-ahead-the-russia-india-stealth-fighter-14754

It looks like another element of the 'pivot east' is going down the proverbial toilet.

Uncle Wally
29-12-2015, 20:11
Cool, 20 more rubles to go. Before the kvas patriots know it.:)



You prefer розовые сопли в ванильной глазури с шоколадными отливами?:party:


Know what?

Uncle Wally
29-12-2015, 20:31
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/warning-turbulence-ahead-the-russia-india-stealth-fighter-14754

It looks like another element of the 'pivot east' is going down the proverbial toilet.


Yes that is why Russia is now holding Navy drills in the Indian Ocean. It helps if you don't strip search a country's diplomat over a domestic servant while your buddies in turbans rape and enslave theirs. Russia is also holding back their moon mission because right now it's more important to counter the imperial threat coming from America and the jets they have now will take care of that just fine. The S400 system kind of scares the poop out of American pilots.

fenrir
29-12-2015, 20:55
Yes that is why Russia is now holding Navy drills in the Indian Ocean. It helps if you don't strip search a country's diplomat over a domestic servant while your buddies in turbans rape and enslave theirs. Russia is also holding back their moon mission because right now it's more important to counter the imperial threat coming from America and the jets they have now will take care of that just fine. The S400 system kind of scares the poop out of American pilots.

All your apologist BS won't earn you one of Putin's Book of Nonsense. Paid servants are never deemed worthy enough of such 'honors.' Your efforts aren't even noticed by the big guy. Only your controller gives a s--- and that is only because it affects HIS career.

Btw, explain in what way Russian naval drills have to do with their f---ing up a major multi-billion dollar defense deal with India.

The moon project? They can't afford it. LOL!!!

fenrir
29-12-2015, 21:06
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/12/29/russias-biggest-bank-threatens-mechel-with-bankruptcy/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix

Another bad sign, but don't fear. Wally will explain it away with the trillions of people America has killed with Tesla death rays and the bankers' plot to keep Russia from carrying out its moon mission because then the truth that it is really made out of green cheese will be exposed!

Uncle Wally
29-12-2015, 23:04
All your apologist BS won't earn you one of Putin's Book of Nonsense. Paid servants are never deemed worthy enough of such 'honors.' Your efforts aren't even noticed by the big guy. Only your controller gives a s--- and that is only because it affects HIS career.

Btw, explain in what way Russian naval drills have to do with their f---ing up a major multi-billion dollar defense deal with India.

The moon project? They can't afford it. LOL!!!



Look I don't have to explain anything to some a****le that thinks it's just f**king dandy that his country supports terrorist and backs up Turkey a country so directly involved with terrorist we can't tell them apart! Maybe you don't care about so many people losing their life or limbs, father and brothers, the street they grew up on and the land they love but I am getting very tired of your ignorance and indifference to the well being of humans in other parts of the world. Just because you can afford to vacation in Crimea, Crimea? Really? You the f**king super duper idiotic patriot? Crimea? You do understand by you going there and spending your money you were doing something that your fascist government would frown upon right? Don't tell me that even that fact has gone right over your stupid little pinhead? People are dying because of your country's government and you act like you could give a sh!t.

If Russia has to suspend their moon mission it is not because they haven't got the money it's because of ass*oles like you who sit and happily stand by as your government kills and manes' millions of people just so they can enslave f**king jokers like you. Why don't you try to have some f**king gumption in your life and think for yourself instead of trying living through the Nazi fascist that really run your country. I think it's because you were some little puke of a kid your whole life until you move Estonia and met a Russian girl, now you think you're pretty f**king cool don't you? Next time you want to take the family on vacation go to Turkey instead. It may not be as safe as Crimea but then you won't be supporting that guy you hate so much will ya? Then you can actually risk your life and flirt with the terrorist you love so much.


For the rest of you guys TR, Andy, Ben, Judge , vossey, Quincy, nickcool, yes even you nick, I wish you have a very good, restful (crazy wild sex in TR's case, but somehow I know he wouldn't let me down) New Year! May this year be the year for peace (not through more war like those as*holes in America keep telling us but from love and equality for all living things) and understanding.

I've had enough for now and will take a little break to relax

Russian Lad
30-12-2015, 00:47
Crimea, Crimea? Really? You the f**king super duper idiotic patriot? Crimea? You do understand by you going there and spending your money you were doing something that your fascist government would frown upon right? Don't tell me that even that fact has gone right over your stupid little pinhead? People are dying because of your country's government and you act like you could give a sh!t.

Hehe, Fenrir, for once comrade Wally has a valid point here - me personally, I will go to the Crimea only if I am chained and delivered there by force, or if I am paid a great deal of money for the trip, but I doubt Wally or his supervisors here will be willing to offer me this dubious pleasure.:party:


Know what?

Kindly tell me what, comrade, why this sudden shroud of impenetrable mystery? By the way, Wally, since we are on this thread about the Russian economy, can you explain to me why Putin has signed this new law today banning indexation of pensions to the Russians who are still working? It means my parents will be receiving even less rubles starting the beginning of the new year. Obama and evil Americans, they are also behind this move? Ref.: https://news.mail.ru/politics/24420017/?frommail=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwOULe_wD18

fenrir
30-12-2015, 09:59
RL, my wife's mother and family come from the Crimea, so our family holiday there was to meet with extended family (none of them had met our youngest child before then) and to enjoy a place (Yalta) we had visited before all the trouble started. Unlike Wally, who relies on RT propaganda and whatever he farts out his ass at any particular moment, I have an informed opinion on the situation in the Crimea because I have been there 3 times (twice before and once after the occupation) and have seen things for myself.

FatAndy
30-12-2015, 12:13
:emote_popcorn:

nicklcool
30-12-2015, 20:27
Uncle wally, thanks for the well wishes :)


I wish everyone a Happy & Healthy New Year and hope you all had a Merry Christmas as well!

That being said, FX rates and planned rail projects aside, the lines have been drawn in the sand. But,

--> if the Russophiles think everything is just dandy, why is GDP still in recession territory? Why is the poverty rate rising?

--> and if the Russophobes think the economic situation in Russia is such a disaster, why no public firing of high ranking officials? Why no corruption probes and stings? Why no protests in the streets? Why isn't appeasing the West to get sanctions removed being discussed? Why isn't the government discussing plans to stimulate the economy?

I put myself in the former category, and the only reasons I can think of that the protests, firings, corruption probes, etc. aren't happening are:

1. The economic situation isn't as bad as the Russophobes and some indicators make it out to be (think for example of how in the USA, the indicators show that the recession ended long ago, but many people don't see this recovery in their own experiences)
2. The Russian people do actually think the economic situation is a mess, but are enslaved manipulated and controlled by their government, and cannot protest etc. because of the repressive regime in power. In this case the West would think it needs to rescue the repressed Russians from their authoritative rulers.
3. The Russian people are apathetic and too busy with life to do anything like social activism even though their economic situation stinks. In this instance "every country gets the government it deserves."
4. The Russian people are too stupid to realize their government is using and abusing them - hey, the majority of ethnic Russians are the descendants of serfs, right? In this case too the West patronizingly thinks it needs to 'rescue' Russians from their oppressive government.
5. The Russian people are quite intelligent, they know the economic situation stinks, but they also know this is temporary - like most previous recessions in the world, this one will pass - and it's artificial, caused mainly by these sanctions. The most important thing is, their government is protecting their language, borders, and culture, boosting the birth rate incrementally, maintaining sovereignty by blowing back Western manipulation, and keeping the really rough and corrupt ones who ruined things in the nineties out of the national treasury.



...I'm leaning more towards # 5. What do you think is the reason Russians are not up in arms protesting an demanding action from their leaders, if things are as awful as RL, Fenrir, nobby, et al say they are? Would you add to this list or choose one of the above rationales?

Happy New Year and Merry Christmas to everyone!!! :) :) :) :)

Nobbynumbnuts
31-12-2015, 18:44
Oil $36
Ruble 74-$1

The slide continues. $30 oil looking increasingly likely. Will that mean 80r+-$1 when it does?
The exchange rate is very significant to Russians, a barometer of economic performance and the overall situation generally. Historically, a plunging ruble always spells disaster for ordinary Russians.
Will be a lot of nervous people about in the new year..

FatAndy
31-12-2015, 19:20
The exchange rate is very significant to Russians
...living in Moscow and, maybe, SpB. ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
31-12-2015, 19:43
...living in Moscow and, maybe, SpB. ;)

More money and business in Mos & SpB so rate is more relevant but no denying, in the country as a whole $-Rub rate is physiologically very important

nicklcool
31-12-2015, 20:48
but no denying, in the country as a whole $-Rub rate is physiologically very important

Allow me to deny; there was no noticeable social movement or action when the FX rate first doubled to 70. Why do you expect 80 to be so much more damning than the 70 benchmark? Obviously, we academically intelligent but common sense lacking Westerners are missing something. The economy tumbles in the USA, you have Occupy Wall Street protests, it crumbles in Europe and hooded anarchist [unemployed] youth are smashing windows and burning things, the economy is suffering in Russia and people are....still going to work but buying less (consumer spending is down but unemployment is steady).

Dumb but well-intending Westerners conclude: Russia is under repressive authoritarian rule! We need to help them! I know, we'll enact sanctions so they turn on their dictator Putin and instead embrace us- they'll have their own color revolution! (Didn't Reagan say the worst words you can hear are "We're from the government and we're here to help"? Thank goodness the ordinary everyday Russians do not want this patronizing help!)

Nobbynumbnuts
31-12-2015, 21:25
Allow me to deny; there was no noticeable social movement or action when the FX rate first doubled to 70. Why do you expect 80 to be so much more damning than the 70 benchmark? Obviously, we academically intelligent but common sense lacking Westerners are missing something. The economy tumbles in the USA, you have Occupy Wall Street protests, it crumbles in Europe and hooded anarchist [unemployed] youth are smashing windows and burning things, the economy is suffering in Russia and people are....still going to work but buying less (consumer spending is down but unemployment is steady).

Dumb but well-intending Westerners conclude: Russia is under repressive authoritarian rule! We need to help them! I know, we'll enact sanctions so they turn on their dictator Putin and instead embrace us- they'll have their own color revolution! (Didn't Reagan say the worst words you can hear are "We're from the government and we're here to help"? Thank goodness the ordinary everyday Russians do not want this patronizing help!)

I never said there would be any reaction from Russians, apart from nervousness, if the ruble falls further.
I'm far more interested in what reaction there is from the government if the ruble depreciates further, which looks likely. I don't believe they will sit idly by and let it slide indefinitely. In fact, i think we had a clue last week as to what they will do. They tightened exchange rules (more paperwork) and i recon this will continue. How much further the ruble has to fall exactly before they introduce more restrictions on currency controls? Anyone's guess. What will those controls be? The more action they take, the more confidence in the ruble will be shaken..

Suuryaa
31-12-2015, 22:43
Uncle wally, thanks for the well wishes :)


I wish everyone a Happy & Healthy New Year and hope you all had a Merry Christmas as well!

That being said, FX rates and planned rail projects aside, the lines have been drawn in the sand. But,

--> if the Russophiles think everything is just dandy, why is GDP still in recession territory? Why is the poverty rate rising?

--> and if the Russophobes think the economic situation in Russia is such a disaster, why no public firing of high ranking officials? Why no corruption probes and stings? Why no protests in the streets? Why isn't appeasing the West to get sanctions removed being discussed? Why isn't the government discussing plans to stimulate the economy?

I put myself in the former category, and the only reasons I can think of that the protests, firings, corruption probes, etc. aren't happening are:

1. The economic situation isn't as bad as the Russophobes and some indicators make it out to be (think for example of how in the USA, the indicators show that the recession ended long ago, but many people don't see this recovery in their own experiences)
2. The Russian people do actually think the economic situation is a mess, but are enslaved manipulated and controlled by their government, and cannot protest etc. because of the repressive regime in power. In this case the West would think it needs to rescue the repressed Russians from their authoritative rulers.
3. The Russian people are apathetic and too busy with life to do anything like social activism even though their economic situation stinks. In this instance "every country gets the government it deserves."
4. The Russian people are too stupid to realize their government is using and abusing them - hey, the majority of ethnic Russians are the descendants of serfs, right? In this case too the West patronizingly thinks it needs to 'rescue' Russians from their oppressive government.
5. The Russian people are quite intelligent, they know the economic situation stinks, but they also know this is temporary - like most previous recessions in the world, this one will pass - and it's artificial, caused mainly by these sanctions. The most important thing is, their government is protecting their language, borders, and culture, boosting the birth rate incrementally, maintaining sovereignty by blowing back Western manipulation, and keeping the really rough and corrupt ones who ruined things in the nineties out of the national treasury.



...I'm leaning more towards # 5. What do you think is the reason Russians are not up in arms protesting an demanding action from their leaders, if things are as awful as RL, Fenrir, nobby, et al say they are? Would you add to this list or choose one of the above rationales?

Happy New Year and Merry Christmas to everyone!!! :) :) :) :)

Number 3

nicklcool
02-01-2016, 11:12
The EU joins the USA in slapping sanctions on Ukraine's ex president and his associates, and now it's so fed up with corruption in Ukraine that it may lift tgose sanctions? Priceless! Is this the first to fall in the Sanctions house of cards?
http://www.rbc.ru/politics/02/01/2016/5687491d9a79478137e96c3c

FatAndy
02-01-2016, 13:23
Bees against honey? :D

Fantastika
06-01-2016, 13:09
Kindly tell me what, comrade, why this sudden shroud of impenetrable mystery? By the way, Wally, since we are on this thread about the Russian economy, can you explain to me why Putin has signed this new law today banning indexation of pensions to the Russians who are still working? It means my parents will be receiving even less rubles starting the beginning of the new year. Obama and evil Americans, they are also behind this move? Ref.: https://news.mail.ru/politics/24420017/?frommail=1


VVP culls a lot of ideas from overseas. In the US a retiree loses $2 of his social security pension for every $1 he earns at a job.

Russian Lad
06-01-2016, 13:35
VVP culls a lot of ideas from overseas. In the US a retiree loses $2 of his social security pension for every $1 he earns at a job.

I see, comrade, Obama is behind this too. I should have guessed it myself, sorry for being so dumb. Wait a second, I see a suspicious black dude taking a piss on my block of apartments, he actually looks like Obama. Hold on, I will be back. Yes, it was him. You have been correct all along.
To get back to the thread topic - oil - 35, dollar - 74. Hohoho, Merry Christmas...

Nobbynumbnuts
06-01-2016, 13:49
......To get back to the thread topic - oil - 35, dollar - 74. Hohoho, Merry Christmas...

Yes, was just going to post same.
Oil has plunged below $35 and the ruble is edging ever closer to $75
Interesting how even the heightened tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran haven't stopped the slide in oil price..

Fantastika
06-01-2016, 13:52
...Wait a second, I see a suspicious black dude taking a piss on my block of apartments, he actually looks like Obama. Hold on, I will be back. Yes, it was him....


What took you so long? You ate his watermelon and stole his basketball?

No, the pension idea was not Obama's. His economic prowess could be compared to a flat tire.

Russian Lad
06-01-2016, 13:56
What took you so long? You ate his watermelon and stole his basketball?

I think he is doing it to harm Russia, choosing blocks of apartments at random. There are rumors he is shitting on some blocks of apartments too! He is also making potholes on the Russian roads at night. That's all rather disturbing. Can't Obama leave us alone?

FatAndy
06-01-2016, 14:13
There are rumors he is shitting on some blocks of apartments too!

http://cs4.pikabu.ru/post_img/2015/10/29/10/1446140360_753834635.jpg

Fantastika
06-01-2016, 16:40
Yes, we had to explain to a Somali migrant who was renting a room from us, that the purpose of the shower curtain was to keep the water INSIDE the tub. When the shower curtain was outside the tub, it would put water all over the bathroom and weaken the wooden floor.

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 01:40
Oil 34 and going down, dollar was 75 during the day. That's brutal.:) Benedikt, you still keep your savings in rubles? Wonder how obstinate you are.

Nobbynumbnuts
07-01-2016, 12:12
Oil 34 and going down, dollar was 75 during the day. That's brutal.:) Benedikt, you still keep your savings in rubles? Wonder how obstinate you are.

Oil sunk to $32 and the ruble is now over $75 today
Will we see oil at $29 in the next few days? Unbelievable. How much longer and further can this fall go?

fenrir
07-01-2016, 12:17
Oil sunk to $32 and the ruble is now over $75 today
Will we see oil at $29 in the next few days? Unbelievable. How much longer and further can this fall go?

Where's the village idiot and his big 'predictions' now?

fenrir
07-01-2016, 12:27
Ruble 82.1 to the euro.

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 13:28
The Urals oil less than USD 30 per barrel.:party::party::party:


How much longer and further can this fall go?

I guess all the way down to 20 for some time. If the Chinese economy gets a serious crisis we might even see 10 and the dollar at 200-300 rubles, who knows. Wonder how the kvas patriots here like it - minus 20 outside and oil at 30.:) А я ведь говорил - не надо теребить пиписю, проиграем процесс...


Where's the village idiot and his big 'predictions' now?

Poor, poor Wally.:(

Nobbynumbnuts
07-01-2016, 14:12
The Urals oil less than USD 30 per barrel.:party::party::party:



I guess all the way down to 20 for some time. If the Chinese economy gets a serious crisis we might even see 10 and the dollar at 200-300 rubles, who knows. Wonder how the kvas patriots here like it - minus 20 outside and oil at 30.:) А я ведь говорил - не надо теребить пиписю, проиграем процесс......

I'll be surprised if it does hit $20 At some point the oil producers will surely take action, although they have said they won't. $20 is going to be disastrous for budgets..

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 14:17
I'll be surprised if it does hit $20 At some point the oil producers will surely take action, although they have said they won't. $20 is going to be disastrous for budgets..


It is all rather subjective, most producers will keep producing and selling even if they begin experiencing losses, to keep their market share and maybe to enter the new markets more aggresively - look at the Saudis and the Iranians fighting over the European markets now. Putin said that the Western economy would crumble if the oil prices get below 80 a while back.:) It is all about timing, I guess, I would not exclude even USD10 per barrel for some time.:)

Nobbynumbnuts
07-01-2016, 14:34
It is all rather subjective, most producers will keep producing and selling even if they begin experiencing losses, to keep their market share and maybe to enter the new markets more aggresively - look at the Saudis and the Iranians fighting over the European markets now. Putin said that the Western economy would crumble if the oil prices get below 80 a while back.:) It is all about timing, I guess, I would not exclude even USD10 per barrel for some time.:)

I've heard all the rhetoric from the producers about keeping/gaining market share but at some point they will have to start defending the price. They won't allow it to just fall indefinitely. Where's the bottom for them?

If oil fell as low as $10 then that's great for western economies, a real stimulus. Like a tax break for everyone!

Nobbynumbnuts
07-01-2016, 14:56
Just hearing that Swissotel has closed down due to sanctions against Turkey....http://www.rbc.ru/business/07/01/2016/568d30ba9a79476ed9bff674

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 15:31
I've heard all the rhetoric from the producers about keeping/gaining market share but at some point they will have to start defending the price. They won't allow it to just fall indefinitely. Where's the bottom for them?

This is true of course, but not until the Saudis and Iran divide the European market. Plus there are Americans in the picture with their own oil now. So, this year for sure the oil prices will be seeing record lows. The current Russian budget is balanced at USD50 average, the Saudis have already balanced theirs at USD30. So you go figure.:) The Saudis will keep dumping the price and the Iranians as well. It is all doom and gloom for today's Russia. The opportunities of high oil prices have been lost, now it is going to be the Snowy Nigeria all the way here. Very good for a vibrant brides market.:) Hohoho

nicklcool
07-01-2016, 15:47
Oil sunk to $32 and the ruble is now over $75 today
Will we see oil at $29 in the next few days? Unbelievable. How much longer and further can this fall go?

Not sure why this is unbelievable, articles have been stating that while Saudia Arabia is burning cash to prop up their currency durung this oil market share war, Russia is not touching her Sovereign Fund piggy bank. Without the Central Bank performing an Eastern European version of "Quantitative Easing," where else would the ruble FX rate go?

What is unbelievable to me is that at the end of 2008, in the heat of the subprime lending crisis, the ruble was at 29 to the dollar. And even in 2012 it was at about thirty. Look how big of an influence the sanctions are on the FX rate! No wonder Russians hate the West and not their president.

Nobbynumbnuts
07-01-2016, 16:29
Not sure why this is unbelievable, articles have been stating that while Saudia Arabia is burning cash to prop up their currency durung this oil market share war, Russia is not touching her Sovereign Fund piggy bank. Without the Central Bank performing an Eastern European version of "Quantitative Easing," where else would the ruble FX rate go?

What is unbelievable to me is that at the end of 2008, in the heat of the subprime lending crisis, the ruble was at 29 to the dollar. And even in 2012 it was at about thirty. Look how big of an influence the sanctions are on the FX rate! No wonder Russians hate the West and not their president.

Saudi Arabia's currency (Riyal) is pegged to the dollar at 3.75r=$1 since 2007. So Saudi Arabia is not 'burning cash' to support the currency, they're burning cash to meet budget requirements.
The ruble will generally follow the oil price and in this case it's lower. Wasting money trying to support the ruble when it's main driver (in this instance) is the oil price would be foolish. Simpler to influence the oil price by cutting production.

The ruble was trading at $23 in summer 2008 with a very high oil price. As the financial crisis unfolded late 2008 the ruble fell to $35 again, alongside the oil price. 2012 the oil price had recovered to $112. Not surprisingly the ruble as well.

The reason the ruble is now $75 or there about is due mainly to the oil price, Russian economy and sanctions. You have to remember that government policy has also changed. Russia was defending the ruble up until a year or so ago, now they have stated publicly that they won't do that any longer. That doesn't help either..

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 17:33
Look how big of an influence the sanctions are on the FX rate! No wonder Russians hate the West and not their president.

Yes, I have already mentioned that - the evil Obama is also pissing and shitting in our podyezds at night. Do you realize how desperate you sound? Besides, where did all the bravado go? Weren't the Russians supposed to laugh at those clearly impotent sanctions? Did Obama order to sanction Western food and to squash it with bulldozers, making sure that starving Russian pensioners witness the food destruction and try to salvage the remaining food from mud? Did Obama make us violate the Turkish air space and to bear the imminent consequences? Did Obama make us do what we did in Donbass? Did Obama murder Nemtsov? Other than that, what exactly do you expect from a corrupt to the core, feudally inefficient, authoritarian economy waging wars abroad, fully supporting the Church financially and otherwise in clear violation of the RF Constitution, with 50% of it based on gas and oil revenues??? Merry Christmas and get real this year. There is still hope for you, comrade Cool Nick. Snowy Nigeria is calling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBsOokAkFw8

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 17:45
Obama detected:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8_6KEb6iUU

Fantastika
07-01-2016, 18:12
...Oil has plunged below $35 and the ruble is edging ever closer to $75...


$75.00 for one rubble? Man,oh,man... :)

FatAndy
07-01-2016, 18:12
Just hearing that Swissotel has closed down due to sanctions against Turkey...
Temporarily stopped, comrade ;)
But yes, it's not easy time for Turkish companies in Russia. L'alla as sayah... :rasta:


$75.00 for one rubble? Man,oh,man... :)
It's Nobby's dream, I guess, he sleeps on a mattress with orange "cotelettes" :)

Fantastika
07-01-2016, 18:18
The ruble was trading at $23 in summer 2008 with a very high oil price. As the financial crisis unfolded late 2008 the ruble fell to $35 again, alongside the oil price. 2012 the oil price had recovered to $112. Not surprisingly the ruble as well.

The reason the ruble is now $75 or there about is due mainly to the oil price, Russian economy and sanctions. You have to remember that government policy has also changed. Russia was defending the ruble up until a year or so ago, now they have stated publicly that they won't do that any longer. That doesn't help either..

Well, raise my rent! Let me run to the suitcase and see if I have any leftover rubble banknotes stashed in my passport or anywhere. 1000 rubles, I can have $75,000!!!! See ya later, comrades, I'm off to the bank!!

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 18:19
$75.00 for one rubble? Man,oh,man...

Yes, I can offer you USD50 for one ruble - if you care to buy rubles from me. Looks like Wally's predictions have come true. Wanna make a transaction?:)

Fantastika
07-01-2016, 18:24
Yes, I can offer you USD50 for one ruble - if you care to buy rubles from me. Looks like Wally's predictions have come true. Wanna make a transaction?:)

If it's a 24k solid gold (not gold-plated) ruble coin. :)

nicklcool
07-01-2016, 18:41
Other than that, what exactly do you expect from a corrupt to the core, feudally inefficient, authoritarian economy waging wars abroad, fully supporting the Church financially and otherwise in clear violation of the RF Constitution, with 50% of it based on gas and oil revenues???

We've been through this before, what I expect is that large numbers of Russians would take social action against the regime, if things were as bad as you say they are. Isn't that what happened in the late eighties/early nineties, people started taking to the streets, even right in front of the Red Square? For now you and those few dozen or so protesters are making yourselves loudly heard, but not enough are following (yet??) So either "every country gets the government it deserves" or Russians need another country (ies) to rescue them from their evil authoritarian dictator government, but if it's the latter, let me warn you, when the US does this there are usually unpleasant side effects...

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 18:49
Yet, Cool Nick, yet... They grind slowly... Those mills... Here, we are just discussing things, it is not like I suggest to the Russians they do what you suggest.:) For me here, it is enough that you and other kvas patriots lose the debate, I don't care about anything else, even about what the Russians do or do not do, en masse - it is entirely up to them, grown up and law-abiding citizens with a mind of their own. We are just debating... Nothing else, comrade. I may refer you to John 1-1 in Rusmeister's Book, the first phrase there. Thank you for your kind attention and understanding, comrade Cool Nick.:)
As to consequences, well, there are always consequences, irrespective of what path one takes. Once someone said: "There are no correct choices in this life, there are only choices and their consequences". Let me put it in more simple terms for you - we have taken different sides, and I want my side to win and your side to lose, miserably. So far, you are losing - it is great news to me and it is a shame on you, comrade. And I have already said - the winner takes it all - only within the framework of the debate, of course. Mind that please.

FatAndy
07-01-2016, 19:15
"There are no correct choices in this life, there are only choices and their consequences".
...moreover, the life isn't fight of Good vs Evil, but of Evil vs bigger Evil :)

Russian Lad
07-01-2016, 20:05
...moreover, the life isn't fight of Good vs Evil, but of Evil vs bigger Evil :)

Life is just a fight.:) A pretty useless one too.:) But well, let's enjoy the process, it is more fun to be a winner rather than a loser.

nicklcool
07-01-2016, 21:02
A gauge tracking 20 emerging-market currencies dropped for a fifth day, headed for its longest losing streak since October. The currency in South Africa, which counts China as its biggest trading partner, tumbled 1.2 percent. Russia’s ruble slid 1.1 percent in offshore trading while Mexico’s and Brazil’s real slid at least 0.6 percent.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-06/equity-slump-set-to-continue-in-asia-as-crude-lingers-around-34

Nobbynumbnuts
07-01-2016, 21:30
$75.00 for one rubble? Man,oh,man... :)

Before you rush to the bank, that was a typo..

Uncle Wally
07-01-2016, 22:16
Where's the village idiot and his big 'predictions' now?


You must be the "village idiot" because you can't even understand the oil is falling because of a global recession. Most likely brought on by your ex-country and their passion for war and world domination that they have tried to finance, not to mention the manipulation of markets and commodities they have been engaged in for the last 15 years. This all brings very little to market but guns and bombs. There are three things that drive economy, food,drugs and clothes all the rest like bombs and gun the majority of people don't need. Only sick lazy ass politicians who want to suck the life out of us for their own personal good about what country has or doesn't have a private central bank.

Nobbynumbnuts
07-01-2016, 23:13
Temporarily stopped, comrade ;)
But yes, it's not easy time for Turkish companies in Russia. L'alla as sayah... :pasta:.........

All the staff in the hotel are Turkish too?

Uncle Wally
07-01-2016, 23:21
All the staff in the hotel are Turkish too?


No numby Russia was one place that was great for Turkish business and Turkish workers. You being an old burger flipper wouldn't understand that now would you?

fenrir
08-01-2016, 00:07
You must be the "village idiot" because you can't even understand the oil is falling because of a global recession. Most likely brought on by your ex-country and their passion for war and world domination that they have tried to finance, not to mention the manipulation of markets and commodities they have been engaged in for the last 15 years. This all brings very little to market but guns and bombs. There are three things that drive economy, food,drugs and clothes all the rest like bombs and gun the majority of people don't need. Only sick lazy ass politicians who want to suck the life out of us for their own personal good about what country has or doesn't have a private central bank.

No, you are Wally. Remember your 'predictions' of oil rising to $80 in the near future, the collapse of the dollar and euro, and how the ruble would become a reserve currency? Now you are just making excuses and talking cr-p to cover your shameful failures.

Fantastika
08-01-2016, 00:17
Before you rush to the bank, that was a typo..

That wasn't a "typo". A "typo" is a misspelling or mechanical error. What you did in three different sentences was write the converse of the factual. :)

Russian Lad
08-01-2016, 00:31
No, you are Wally. Remember your 'predictions' of oil rising to $80 in the near future, the collapse of the dollar and euro, and how the ruble would become a reserve currency? Now you are just making excuses and talking cr-p to cover your shameful failures.

Poor Wally. Maybe he believed Putin who said the Western economies will crumble if oil goes below 80? I mean, his leader poor Wally trusts told him just that, and Wally assumed his dear leader cannot be wrong and rushed to inform us all about how things stand currently, only to find out a bit later he made a complete fool of himself and discredited other kvas patriots here beyond repair.

nicklcool
08-01-2016, 20:18
Yet, Cool Nick, yet... They grind slowly... Those mills... Here, we are just discussing things, it is not like I suggest to the Russians they do what you suggest.:)
...
Let me put it in more simple terms for you - we have taken different sides, and I want my side to win and your side to lose, miserably. So far, you are losing - it is great news to me and it is a shame on you, comrade. And I have already said - the winner takes it all - only within the framework of the debate, of course. Mind that please.

I get it, RL, Russia has outlawed online dissent so you must parse your words carefully. But probably your view aligns with my barber's, who says he sees no other outcome for Russia than collapse ( razval). What other view can you have, if even these awful economic conditions have produced no social backlash?

If "my side" wins, Russians autonomously rule themselves without overt influence from the USA, and ugly punishing sanctions are replaced with fair trade and amicable or at least neutral relations with the West.

If "your side" wins, what will that look like?

nicklcool
08-01-2016, 21:02
Saudi Arabia's currency (Riyal) is pegged to the dollar at 3.75r=$1 since 2007. So Saudi Arabia is not 'burning cash' to support the currency, they're burning cash to meet budget requirements.
The ruble will generally follow the oil price and in this case it's lower. Wasting money trying to support the ruble when it's main driver (in this instance) is the oil price would be foolish. Simpler to influence the oil price by cutting production.

The ruble was trading at $23 in summer 2008 with a very high oil price. As the financial crisis unfolded late 2008 the ruble fell to $35 again, alongside the oil price. 2012 the oil price had recovered to $112. Not surprisingly the ruble as well.

The reason the ruble is now $75 or there about is due mainly to the oil price, Russian economy and sanctions. You have to remember that government policy has also changed. Russia was defending the ruble up until a year or so ago, now they have stated publicly that they won't do that any longer. That doesn't help either..

Nobby, review these two charts showing the USD/ RUB FX rate http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/5y?usdrub=x and the cost of oil over the past five years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart), and tell me again that the ruble's decline over tge past two years is due more to oil's decline than the sanctions. Where do you see the strong correlation in these charts?

But you're right, the big policy change that the Russian central bank is no longer propping up the ruble is a huge part of the reason for its decline. Saudia Arabia's crrency being "pegged" to the dollar is a polite way of saying it's burning cash to prop up its currency, just like the USA's "quantitative easing" is a polite way of saying printing money out of thin air, China's stock market "circuit breaker" is a polite way of saying we're going to restrict your private property rights, etc. Where would all these currencies be without their hyperactive central banks?

The stock markets are tumbling right now, much as the ruble has recently with the central bank no longer propping it up. How much sooner would the stock market tumble have occurred without the US printing monopoly money (quantitative easing)?

The whole world is going through awful economic times but many are singling out Russia's poor performance as tied strongly ( so strongly as to be the exclusive focus of most debate) to her corruption and incompetent leadership....there's plenty of the latter to go around, throughout the world, trust me.

Russian Lad
08-01-2016, 22:15
I get it, RL, Russia has outlawed online dissent so you must parse your words carefully. But probably your view aligns with my barber's, who says he sees no other outcome for Russia than collapse ( razval). What other view can you have, if even these awful economic conditions have produced no social backlash?

You will not hear my opinion on this until I decide the time has come. Remember, we are only debating here, but you keep bringing in some illegal provocations. I am a law-abiding citizen of the Russian Federation, shame on you, comrade. You must obey the Russian Federation laws.:)



If "your side" wins, what will that look like?

I don't know. What I do know is I don't want this sh't that your side has brought to my country. I mean, I cannot even switch on the tv without hearing a bucketful of outright lies. All of a sudden I am living inside Orwell's 1984, real life experience. Down with Big Brother - I am talking about the book only, of course. You will lose and no BS will help. Wait and see. The metaphysical bubble is about to burst. The money will run out soon, and that's when the fun begins.

fenrir
08-01-2016, 23:05
I've got two tests that should lay this issue to rest.

1: One person goes to Washington DC with a sign that says 'Give Alaska Back to Russia' and another one goes to Red Square with one saying "Give the Crimea Back to Ukraine'. Who gets in more trouble with the authorities?

2: One person in America loudly and publicly discusses (in person and on social media) recent American combat casualties in Afghanistan, while another in Russia discusses recent Russian combat casualties in Syria. Who gets in more trouble with the authorities?

Fantastika
09-01-2016, 12:51
You will not hear my opinion on this until I decide the time has come. Remember, we are only debating here, but you keep bringing in some illegal provocations. I am a law-abiding citizen of the Russian Federation, shame on you, comrade. You must obey the Russian Federation laws.:)

I don't know. What I do know is I don't want this sh't that your side has brought to my country. I mean, I cannot even switch on the tv without hearing a bucketful of outright lies. All of a sudden I am living inside Orwell's 1984, real life experience. Down with Big Brother - I am talking about the book only, of course. You will lose and no BS will help. Wait and see. The metaphysical bubble is about to burst. The money will run out soon, and that's when the fun begins.

RL, you're in The Matrix! You've discovered the real truth in the midst of the apparent lies: you're just a pod, what you think is your life is just your imagination, an illusion, a dream...Fat Andy is 3 pods over to the right...

Fantastika
09-01-2016, 12:57
I've got two tests that should lay this issue to rest.

1: One person goes to Washington DC with a sign that says 'Give Alaska Back to Russia' and another one goes to Red Square with one saying "Give the Crimea Back to Ukraine'. Who gets in more trouble with the authorities?

2: One person in America loudly and publicly discusses (in person and on social media) recent American combat casualties in Afghanistan, while another in Russia discusses recent Russian combat casualties in Syria. Who gets in more trouble with the authorities?

Uh, what? I can't even wear my "Russia" baseball cap without getting grief from my supposedly "friendly" fellow villagers. As far as "2." goes, there is no "public" discussion because the mainstream media glorifies Obama and anything Obama does - "casualties" are something heroic that are necessary for the continued glorification of American liberty/freedom/basketball, to burnish the legacy of the first American saint named "Barack."

Russian Lad
09-01-2016, 13:32
Fat Andy is 3 pods over to the right...

He is a putipod.:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfqw8nhUwA

FatAndy
09-01-2016, 14:04
All the staff in the hotel are Turkish too?
When I've been there, saw mostly Russians. But you may contact them and ask about ;)


1: One person goes to Washington DC with a sign that says 'Give Alaska Back to Russia' and another one goes to Red Square with one saying "Give the Crimea Back to Ukraine'.
Not comparable. Crimea is much better than Alaska :rasta: Let you support your depressive costly territory yourself. ;)

And in term of "back" Crimea is already back. Let maidowns and their supporters be whipping cats. :) Insha alla.

Nobbynumbnuts
09-01-2016, 16:58
When I've been there, saw mostly Russians....

Now unemployed..:winking:

Russian Lad
09-01-2016, 17:09
Quote Originally Posted by FatAndy View Post
When I've been there, saw mostly Russians....
Now unemployed..


No worries, Putin and FatAndy will feed us all. Let's have faith in our dear Leader and in our Supermoderator, comrades.:party:

FatAndy
09-01-2016, 18:52
Now unemployed..:winking:
No, previously booked rooms are supplied, and people work.
But you may continue your wet dreams, comrade ;)


No worries, Putin and FatAndy will feed us all. Let's have faith in our dear Leader and in our Supermoderator, comrades.:party:
Dunno about Vovan, but I have got only one... erhmmm... "tit" :) So who wants, may take a queue.

Russian Lad
09-01-2016, 20:03
No, previously booked rooms are supplied, and people work.
But you may continue your wet dreams, comrade ;)


Dunno about Vovan, but I have got only one... erhmmm... "tit" :) So who wants, may take a queue.

I have to warn you comrade that I bite.:party:

Uncle Wally
09-01-2016, 20:10
I have to warn you comrade that I bite.:party:


No, you suck.

Uncle Wally
09-01-2016, 20:14
No worries, Putin and FatAndy will feed us all. Let's have faith in our dear Leader and in our Supermoderator, comrades.:party:


Why do you need anyone to feed you? Are you so lame that you need to rely on your government? Be a man and take what you need and stop whining.

Nobbynumbnuts
09-01-2016, 20:31
No, previously booked rooms are supplied, and people work.
But you may continue your wet dreams, comrade ;)........

Customers who have booked rooms will of course be accommodate in other hotels. But you're telling me the staff at Swissotel are all working? Where?

Russian Lad
09-01-2016, 20:32
Naughty Wally.:party: Wanna play?

Uncle Wally
09-01-2016, 22:08
Naughty Wally.:party: Wanna play?

With you no. Go play with yourself.

fenrir
09-01-2016, 23:09
Uh, what? I can't even wear my "Russia" baseball cap without getting grief from my supposedly "friendly" fellow villagers. As far as "2." goes, there is no "public" discussion because the mainstream media glorifies Obama and anything Obama does - "casualties" are something heroic that are necessary for the continued glorification of American liberty/freedom/basketball, to burnish the legacy of the first American saint named "Barack."

My tests involve trouble with the authorities, not individuals from the general public.

Uncle Wally
10-01-2016, 01:03
My tests involve trouble with the authorities, not individuals from the general public.


Your "tests" are all bunk! You come from a country that has been manipulating stock markets and people for so long that just about ever other country it fed up and wishes the US would just go away.

fenrir
10-01-2016, 01:39
Your "tests" are all bunk! You come from a country that has been manipulating stock markets and people for so long that just about ever other country it fed up and wishes the US would just go away.

My tests are so good that neither you nor nick can refute them because even you two know the answers and they don't support your position one bit.

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 09:54
Customers who have booked rooms
...before 30th Dec are accomodated in Swissotel. :)


But you're telling me the staff at Swissotel are all working? Where?
There, serving existing clients. New ones (since 30th Dec) can't book rooms and get services.

Russian Lad
10-01-2016, 10:15
...before 30th Dec are accomodated in Swissotel. :)


There, serving existing clients. New ones (since 30th Dec) can't book rooms and get services.

So, what will happen to the Russian personnel there after the existing clients leave? Scratching one's unemployed arse under such freezing conditions may present certain challenges, even if one is a hard-core kvas patriot and adores Putin. What is your take on this, comrade?:confused:

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 10:56
So, what will happen to the Russian personnel there after the existing clients leave?
Will see, comrade. :) Stay tuned on RBC - they'll tell The TruthЪ.

Russian Lad
10-01-2016, 11:23
Will see, comrade. :) Stay tuned on RBC - they'll tell The TruthЪ.



RBC is improving, to the point of being subversive:). They had an interview with Yavlinsky on yesterday who said Putin must go.:) Quite funny.

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 11:41
They had an interview with Yavlinsky on yesterday who said Putin must go.
What else juvenile idiot can say? :D

Russian Lad
10-01-2016, 11:48
What else juvenile idiot can say? :D

Is he juvenile? He is quite old. Or you mean mentally? Well, if Putin, unlike Yavlinsky, is very smart, why is our country in such deep sh;t? It doesn't make much sense.

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 12:07
Is he juvenile? He is quite old. Or you mean mentally?
For sure. It's a brain state, not biological age.


It doesn't make much sense.
Sure, you see better from a cellar, comrade ;)

Russian Lad
10-01-2016, 12:25
For sure. It's a brain state, not biological age.


Sure, you see better from a cellar, comrade ;)

You see it differently from your highly elevated position, comrade? All is a great success?

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 12:46
All is a great success?
Not everytning, there are some issues, but we move correct way. :agree: :rasta:

Though you may continue to read Finanz and Gloomberg. ;) And censor.net, of course.

Nobbynumbnuts
10-01-2016, 12:53
...before 30th Dec are accomodated in Swissotel. :)


There, serving existing clients. New ones (since 30th Dec) can't book rooms and get services.

The staff are going to be unemployed..:winking:

Russian Lad
10-01-2016, 13:11
Though you may continue to read Finanz and Gloomberg. And censor.net, of course.

So, what do you read, besides daily metodichkas? Please kindly tell me, I would like to be as smart as you are. I also read the current currencies and oil rates, they are not correct either? Can you name a few economic successes here in Russia during the last 2 years? I can provide you a list of failures, but it is so long I would require to be paid for this.:)
By the way, what is wrong with Finanz? They seem to be rather neutral. Comparing it with Censor is kind of weird.
You seem to be like Wally, in denial of the obvious. Well, I think even the dumbest school kid and the least educated babushka will stop believing those clumsy lies pretty soon. Many have stopped already, they are just afraid to speak up. But hunger is a very strong human emotion, much stronger than fear. Just wait.

fenrir
10-01-2016, 18:59
How the oil collapse stole Russia's Christmas

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-collapse-stole-russias-christmas-134807166.html

It looks like bad news all around, especially if oil prices stay low (which seems likely for at least the near future).

Look at the bailout figure for VEB: 1.2% of GDP!!!

Nobbynumbnuts
10-01-2016, 19:50
How the oil collapse stole Russia's Christmas

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-collapse-stole-russias-christmas-134807166.html

It looks like bad news all around, especially if oil prices stay low (which seems likely for at least the near future).

Look at the bailout figure for VEB: 1.2% of GDP!!!

Let's posts the entire article... :winking:

LONDON/MOSCOW (Reuters) - A plunge in the oil price to 12-year lows during Russia's New Year and Orthodox Christmas break means the country returns to work on Monday with its economic recovery and once-mighty savings war chest on the line.

The equity and currency turmoil in China that rippled through world markets during Russians' 10-day festive holiday pushed Brent crude futures to around $32 a barrel, down from $45 at the start of December and a step closer to the $20 price trough predicted by Goldman Sachs.

Crude's collapse from $100 a barrel since mid-2014 has already pummelled Russia, which relies on energy for about half its budget revenues and 40 percent of its exports. The latest slide compounds the problems facing President Vladimir Putin ahead of elections in 2018.

Due to thin local holiday trading, the rouble fell only 2 percent last week, but the 75-per-dollar rate is not far now from the 80.1 record low hit 13 months ago.

Back then, Russia defended the currency by raising interest rates by 500 basis points overnight; a sharp rouble move lower in coming weeks could force a repeat of that action.

Inflation would surge, and the recession that the government had forecast ending this year would be extended.

In the worst-case scenario with oil staying at or below $30 per barrel, Russia's coffers would empty in just over a year, leaving little to show for a decade of bumper oil earnings.

For Putin, the $100 billion-plus Russia still has in two rainy-day funds, is "the ultimate insurance policy to navigate the election," says Christopher Granville, managing director of Trusted Sources, an investment consultancy.

Granville notes this year's planned budget deficit of 3 percent of annual economic output hinges on $50-a-barrel oil, a gap the government had hoped to fill by borrowing and dipping into the national reserve fund.
But oil at $30 would blow the hole out to 5 percent or more, Granville says. If that happens, Putin may have to risk irking voters with tax hikes and savage spending cuts that throw the economy deeper into recession.

Or he must dig even deeper into rapidly-dwindling savings.

Borrowing on international bond markets or privatisations are also possible but neither is attractive in view of depressed share prices and high borrowing costs.

Investors' appetite for Russia is further dampened by continuing Western sanctions imposed to punish Moscow's actions in Ukraine, although the sanctions do not directly prevent Russia from borrowing.

The two sovereign funds are already being depleted. In early December, they contained $130 billion, down from mid-2014 peaks around $180 billion. The government also has to find a trillion roubles, some 1.2 percent of GDP, that has been promised to bail out state development VEB.

"The national savings buffers are worth around 6.5 percent of GDP at present and that's the basis of saying they will run out of cash by the middle of next year - unless the oil price goes up," said Granville, who had adjusted the paper value of the funds to reflect off-budget commitments.

"But to eke out the buffers until the election will require meaningful spending cuts now... Desperate times call for desperate measures."

Many Russians will return from the holidays only too aware that life is about to get harder.

Civil servants' salaries will be frozen for the third year, pensions are to rise less than inflation; foreign goods and vacations will become even more expensive.

The blow to living standards is leading some to draw parallels with Russia's previous financial crisis in 1998, when the government defaulted and the rouble lost three-quarters of its value.
"It feels like the 1998 crisis all over again. My salary's value in dollars has more than halved, I now earn less than I did in 1997," said Yelena, a Moscow-based newspaper journalist who asked that her surname not be used.

FORECASTS IN DANGER

Investors who fled Russia after the rouble collapse have gradually been returning, encouraged by double-digit bond returns last year, a slight thaw in ties with the West and signs the economy was over the worst.

Expectations interest rates would fall further after 600 bps in cuts over 2015 allowed the government to predict economic growth of 0.7 percent and 1.9 percent this year and the next.

Those forecasts will be in danger if oil does not recover, admits David Hauner, head of CEEMEA debt and strategy at Bank of America Merrill Lynch who has been bullish on Russian bonds.

"As long as oil keeps falling, Russia will keep falling," Hauner said. "We do need to acknowledge that if the market gets disorderly, everything could change quickly and the ice is getting somewhat thin now."

Hauner remains positive on Russian bonds however, noting BAML expects crude to bounce to $50 per barrel later in 2016.

But oil markets are bracing for bigger falls, partly on fears China's economy is in worse shape than it appears.

Investors have started acquiring "put" options that give them the right to sell Brent futures at $25, reflecting expectations of falls below that price. And Russia's Urals crude blend usually trades $2-$3 below Brent.

UBS strategist Manik Narain is one of many analysts reviewing his Russia forecasts - late last year he estimated the rouble would average 75 per dollar in 2016.
The lower oil goes, the harder it is to predict outcomes for the rouble and the economy, he said.

"The big risk is of non-linear currency moves because oil going from $30 to $20 will provoke a very different rouble response from a $40-$30 move," Narain said, citing a likely panic effect among citizens and businesses.

($1 = 74.5900 roubles)

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 20:27
The staff are going to be unemployed..:winking:
Going, and going, and going... :emote_popcorn:


Well, I think even the dumbest school kid and the least educated babushka will stop believing those clumsy lies pretty soon. Many have stopped already, they are just afraid to speak up. But hunger is a very strong human emotion, much stronger than fear. Just wait.
You repeat this mantra how long? 1.5-2 years? :D
Don't stop ;)

Carl
10-01-2016, 20:27
Andy, who will you 'squeeze money' from when there's nothing left to squeeze? Surly you're not so high on the food chain that you can 'squeeze' with impunity for ever? Perhaps even those higher on the food chain than you will start to 'squeeze' your money? But that's just the system right? And whatever happens in the system is 'right and correct', isn't it? When the squeeze comes, send a note to Willy. Maybe his friend will let you live in his flat rent free to...

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 20:33
Andy, who will you 'squeeze money' from when there's nothing left to squeeze?
It's physically impossible. :) Resources of Russia are unlimited.


Surly you're not so high on the food chain that you can 'squeeze' with impunity for ever? Perhaps even those higher on the food chain than you will start to 'squeeze' your money? But that's just the system right? And whatever happens in the system is 'right and correct', isn't it? When the squeeze comes, send a note to Willy. Maybe his friend will let you live in his flat rent free to...
Envy is the great sin, knight. ;) But for you it is really right and correct, although you can't do it in silence :D

Uncle Wally
10-01-2016, 20:36
So, what do you read, besides daily metodichkas? Please kindly tell me, I would like to be as smart as you are. I also read the current currencies and oil rates, they are not correct either? Can you name a few economic successes here in Russia during the last 2 years? I can provide you a list of failures, but it is so long I would require to be paid for this.:)
By the way, what is wrong with Finanz? They seem to be rather neutral. Comparing it with Censor is kind of weird.
You seem to be like Wally, in denial of the obvious. Well, I think even the dumbest school kid and the least educated babushka will stop believing those clumsy lies pretty soon. Many have stopped already, they are just afraid to speak up. But hunger is a very strong human emotion, much stronger than fear. Just wait.



And for the last two years we've had to listen to you tell us how we'll all be starving. Shouldn't it have happened already? Again tonight I had to stand it a big long line of your "starving" Russians at the supermarket and I was think when are these people going to realize things are so bad and shouldn't be buying so much food!

Oil is mostly down not because anything Putin has done, it's down because the global economy is going into a recession. The one that should have happened 7 or 8 years ago. Have you noticed that Wall Street had the worst first week for a new year ever! The one thing Russia still has going for it is they still have money to make it through another year or two. America has the largest debt ever in the history of the world and as interest goes up that debt will only get bigger.



Russian oil will now be priced in rubles and not dollars.

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 20:49
Let's posts the entire article...
How do you read so many letters? :)

Nobbynumbnuts
10-01-2016, 20:54
How do you read so many letters? :)

..with pleasure! :laughing:

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 21:03
..with pleasure! :laughing:
It's most important, yes... is it only pleasure you have? :suspect:

Judge
10-01-2016, 21:08
@ FatAndy&Russian Lad, with Andy's new avatar, your recent discussion reminds me of part 3 the opening scene of Winnie-the-Pooh(Russian version), where Winnie finds Eeyore near a pond, his life is a nightmare and he can't be cheerful all the time like Winnie. :big-grin:


https://youtu.be/73uIn56G1YE

bydand
10-01-2016, 21:11
Russian oil will now be priced in rubles and not dollars.

Uncle Wally does not need any help ruining his credibility. He does it himself.

I know Wally, wait and see; or as Andy would say, will see.

Not in our lifetimes.

bydand
10-01-2016, 21:15
It's physically impossible. :) Resources of Russia are unlimited.

:D

?

Russian Lad
10-01-2016, 21:17
And for the last two years we've had to listen to you tell us how we'll all be starving. Shouldn't it have happened already?

Yes, it is happening already. Some of my neighbors are already starving, like a woman with the pension of 8K rubles paying 4K for her utilities and like 2K for her medicine. There is also a neighbor who is a fired policeman, he was taken to the hospital just yesterday, digestion problems - he has no job and no pension, still owes me 2K rubles I gave him to save him from hunger. And this is in Saint Pete, a relatively well-to-do town. It must be really terrible in other provinces.
Update: an ambulance is right below my balcony at the moment, with its blue lights flashing. I assume it is another malnutrition victim from my podyezd. Or maybe a counterfeit vodka victim, who knows.

FatAndy
10-01-2016, 21:18
Not in our lifetimes.
Based on my experience, the life often overturns even the most courageous representations about it... :verycool:

Russian Lad
10-01-2016, 21:23
FatAndy&Russian Lad, with Andy's new avatar, your recent discussion reminds me of part 3 the opening scene of Winnie-the-Pooh(Russian version), where Winnie finds Eeyore near a pond, his life is a nightmare and he can't be cheerful all the time like Winnie.

We are down to cartoons now, what comes next, lullabies for little babies? Can I drool and giggle?

Uncle Wally
10-01-2016, 21:39
Uncle Wally does not need any help ruining his credibility. He does it himself.

I know Wally, wait and see; or as Andy would say, will see.

Not in our lifetimes.



It's called"dollarization" and it's already here. China and Russia have been moving forward on this for a year now. Oil is just the next step and a very good one at that. Russian crude futures will be priced in rubles on the SPIMEX.



And why not in rubles? Because America says all oil must be sold in $. We know that got Saddam Hussein killed. Putin won't be so easy.

bydand
10-01-2016, 22:26
Based on my experience, the life often overturns even the most courageous representations about it... :verycool:

In my experience, almost always. The beat goes on...

bydand
10-01-2016, 22:28
It's called"dollarization" and it's already here. China and Russia have been moving forward on this for a year now. Oil is just the next step and a very good one at that. Russian crude futures will be priced in rubles on the SPIMEX.



And why not in rubles? Because America says all oil must be sold in $. We know that got Saddam Hussein killed. Putin won't be so easy.

Okay, now I know its time to buy gold.

Carl
10-01-2016, 22:36
It's called"dollarization" and it's already here. China and Russia have been moving forward on this for a year now. Oil is just the next step and a very good one at that. Russian crude futures will be priced in rubles on the SPIMEX.



And why not in rubles? Because America says all oil must be sold in $. We know that got Saddam Hussein killed. Putin won't be so easy.

Yeah... but when's the war Willy? Can I plan my summer vacation? Or should I start building the bunker?

fenrir
10-01-2016, 22:41
It's called"dollarization" and it's already here. China and Russia have been moving forward on this for a year now. Oil is just the next step and a very good one at that. Russian crude futures will be priced in rubles on the SPIMEX.



And why not in rubles? Because America says all oil must be sold in $. We know that got Saddam Hussein killed. Putin won't be so easy.

Why not rubles? Because they suck. Your 'one of the best performing currencies' in the world currently has a case of chronic diarrhea.

Nobbynumbnuts
10-01-2016, 22:42
Okay, now I know its time to buy gold.

..i bet international investors are queuing up to buy futures contracts in rubles! :laughing:

fenrir
10-01-2016, 22:47
And for the last two years we've had to listen to you tell us how we'll all be starving. Shouldn't it have happened already? Again tonight I had to stand it a big long line of your "starving" Russians at the supermarket and I was think when are these people going to realize things are so bad and shouldn't be buying so much food!

Oil is mostly down not because anything Putin has done, it's down because the global economy is going into a recession. The one that should have happened 7 or 8 years ago. Have you noticed that Wall Street had the worst first week for a new year ever! The one thing Russia still has going for it is they still have money to make it through another year or two. America has the largest debt ever in the history of the world and as interest goes up that debt will only get bigger.



Russian oil will now be priced in rubles and not dollars.

I was in Moscow for a few days around New Year's and my wife and I went to an expensive restaurant one night (80+ rubles/euro so why not?). It was full. Now, do I use Wally logic and conclude that because the twenty or so tables were full that all 11+ million inhabitants of Moscow can afford to go to such a place? Of course not because only someone with full-on brain rot would think so.

Uncle Wally
10-01-2016, 23:22
I was in Moscow for a few days around New Year's and my wife and I went to an expensive restaurant one night (80+ rubles/euro so why not?). It was full. Now, do I use Wally logic and conclude that because the twenty or so tables were full that all 11+ million inhabitants of Moscow can afford to go to such a place? Of course not because only someone with full-on brain rot would think so.

I like how you admit that things are cheaper here in Moscow, so much so that in Estonia you can't afford to go to expensive restaurants. I have noticed a lot of food is dirt cheap here now. 9 rubles for a kilo of potatoes, chicken breast 145 rubles a kilo. How much is 9 rubles in euros or dollars?

fenrir
10-01-2016, 23:52
I like how you admit that things are cheaper here in Moscow, so much so that in Estonia you can't afford to go to expensive restaurants. I have noticed a lot of food is dirt cheap here now. 9 rubles for a kilo of potatoes, chicken breast 145 rubles a kilo. How much is 9 rubles in euros or dollars?
Where did I say things are cheaper in Moscow than Estonia? What do you think you know about my going out habits? Come on, chump. Show and tell time.

Regarding supermarket shopping, I was shocked at how expensive a full shopping in Moscow is compared to here. Using a calculator, I added up what I buy here there (as close as possible since some products are not available there) and was surprised.

FatAndy
11-01-2016, 09:51
Chill down, boys, talk about "torn into pieces"... :rasta:

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 10:30
Chill down, boys, talk about "torn into pieces"... :rasta:

Ok. Dollar 76, Euro 83. :party:

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 10:43
Ok. Dollar 76, Euro 83. :party:

..and oil $32.47

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 11:02
I was in Moscow for a few days around New Year's and my wife and I went to an expensive restaurant one night (80+ rubles/euro so why not?). It was full. Now, do I use Wally logic and conclude that because the twenty or so tables were full that all 11+ million inhabitants of Moscow can afford to go to such a place? Of course not because only someone with full-on brain rot would think so.

All the people were laughing too, probably.:) Well, those who have hard currency laugh and dance, others are screwed big time. It is like being back to the nineties. How many ordinary Russians are paid in dollars or euros though? In % it is probably like 2-3% of the population or even less.

Carl
11-01-2016, 11:04
..and oil $32.47


Ok. Dollar 76, Euro 83. :party:

Don't worry comrades.. All according to plan. RF on right path & moving in right direction. All is as should be,.. right & correct.:dizzy:

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 11:10
Yes, let's have dollar for 100. I want round numbers - easier to count.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 11:20
Don't worry comrades.. All according to plan. RF on right path & moving in right direction. All is as should be,.. right & correct.:dizzy:

...and "it's our f*&@#^& business" :winking:

bydand
11-01-2016, 11:40
..i bet international investors are queuing up to buy futures contracts in rubles! :laughing:

I already have my ruble futures, they're called dollars!:winking:

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 11:53
Latest business updates...

Prostitutes in the Arctic city of Murmansk said they were hiking prices by 40% and would forthwith peg them to the dollar...

No one is immune! :winking:

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 12:07
Latest business updates...

Prostitutes in the Arctic city of Murmansk said they were hiking prices by 40% and would forthwith peg them to the dollar...

No one is immune! :winking:

That's probably hearsay. At least here in SPb the competition is very fierce - I go outside and see their adverts everywhere, even painted on the pavement, with phone numbers. I am not using their services, but I do know from a friend who is more interested in the subject that the ruble prices are even going down in the industry. You have to bear in mind it is not a production area, after all, new Russian women join their ranks daily I think, due to the severe economic conditions and, by the same token, they are getting less clients because of the same issue - the worsening economics. Soon they may be willing to do what they do for like a chocolate bar or a one dollar bill, if things continue like that. In this respect they are not very different from restaurants.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 13:23
Dollar breaks above 75 for the first time since?

Judge
11-01-2016, 15:23
Dollar breaks above 75 for the first time since?
December 16, 2014

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 15:38
December 16, 2014

Not according to this chart which goes back to 2004.
I arrived in Russia in 2001 and i know that the ruble didn't reach $75 between 2001 and 2004 so i'm assuming it must be sometime before 2001?


2964229643

Judge
11-01-2016, 15:56
Your pretty graphs are wrong, I'll wait for the sites currency expert, RL,to confirm my correct date.:winking:

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 16:10
Your pretty graphs are wrong, I'll wait for the sites currency expert, RL,to confirm my correct date.:winking:

I've checked a few 'pretty graphs' :laughing: from various sites and can't see where the ruble has closed above 75 since they began in the early 2000's
Perhaps there has been an intraday high above 75, perhaps that was in Dec 16 2014

Would be interested if anyone has a pretty chart to confirm it..:winking:

Judge
11-01-2016, 16:17
Like I said, let's wait for the forums currency expert to confirm when the dollar broke above 75. :ligthbulb:

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 16:22
..okay, i found another pretty chart that shows the ruble did briefly spike above 75 during a day back in Dec. 2014
But as the pretty chart shows, we are well over the closing high for the dollar since at least 2000.

Looks like the ruble hasn't closed this low since around the time of the Russian financial crisis around or just after 1998! That's about 17 years ago! :winking:

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 16:27
Yeah, Judge is right I guess, but let's not forget that the CB interest rate back then was way lower than now. I don't remember the dollar costing 75 in 2000, it was lower, it jumped from like 6 to 23+ in 1998 and after that it was within 23-35 range up till 2014 I think, but I might be wrong about something of course, that's just how I remember it, am too lazy now to dig it all up.
At the interest rate the CB had in Dec. 2014 the dollar would cost 100+ now, I am sure. So, it depends on how we skin this dead cat, I assume. Is Ben still keeping his savings in rubles? Where is some kvas patriot bravado? Wally? Tolko? Anyone? Looks like they have rushed to obmenniks again to exercise their kvas patriotism.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 16:44
Just been researching the ruble from around 1998..

'The ruble was redenominated on 1 January 1998, with one new ruble equaling 1,000 old rubles. The redenomination was an administrative step that reduced the unwieldiness of the old ruble[28] but occurred on the brink of the 1998 Russian financial crisis.[29] The ruble lost 70% of its value against the U.S. dollar in the six months following this financial crisis..' WIKI

At the pre '98 denomination, today there would be 75,000 rubles to the dollar (one new ruble equaling 1,000 old rubles) :winking:

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 16:50
Just been researching the ruble from around 1998..

'The ruble was redenominated on 1 January 1998, with one new ruble equaling 1,000 old rubles. The redenomination was an administrative step that reduced the unwieldiness of the old ruble[28] but occurred on the brink of the 1998 Russian financial crisis.[29] The ruble lost 70% of its value against the U.S. dollar in the six months following this financial crisis..' WIKI

At the pre '98 denomination, today there would be 75,000 rubles to the dollar (one new ruble equaling 1,000 old rubles) :winking:

Well, yes, everyone was a millionaire here at a certain point in the nineties. Guess some are looking forward to this experience again. It is good to be the King.:)

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 16:56
Well, yes, everyone was a millionaire here at a certain point in the nineties. Guess some are looking forward to this experience again. It if good to be the King.:)

Perhaps the Russian government will promise to make everyone a millionaire again and revert to the 'old' exchange rate! lol :winking:

FatAndy
11-01-2016, 18:10
:emote_popcorn:

Judge
11-01-2016, 18:15
Yeah, Judge is right

:big-grin::big-grin::drinks::big-grin::big-grin:

FatAndy
11-01-2016, 19:11
...and "it's our f*&@#^& business" :winking:
For sure, comrade, definitely not yours :)


Latest business updates...

Prostitutes in the Arctic city of Murmansk said they were hiking prices by 40% and would forthwith peg them to the dollar...
Comrade, it's a year old bayan from so called independent reputable Western media. BTW, old Russian proverb says - у кого чего болит, тот о том и говорит (one speaks about one's pain) ;)


Don't worry comrades.. All according to plan. RF on right path & moving in right direction. All is as should be,.. right & correct.:dizzy:
Here are some useful resources for you, knight: http://www.becomingminimalist.com/ungreen-with-envy/
http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/340
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/05/12/8-ways-to-overcome-jealousy-and-envy/
;)

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 19:15
:big-grin::big-grin::drinks::big-grin::big-grin:

Yes Judge, the ruble did indeed spike down during intraday trading below 75 albeit very briefly. Perhaps for just a few moments, something most charts don't show.
Anyway, that record of around 80 to the $ can't be far off now. If oil keeps falling as many expect then we could be there as early as the next week or so. That would be a historic low.

The ruble exchange rate is synonymous with economic prosperity to Russians. While most people in the west have no idea of say, Euro or Pound to the dollar, most Russians do. What's happening to the ruble will not be going unnoticed. Russians in the past have suffered terribly when the currency has crashed...

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 19:47
Nobby, forget about 75, it is 76 already. LOL :party::party::party:


The ruble exchange rate is synonymous with economic prosperity to Russians.

There are still millions of mentally challenged Russians who just don't get it. There are two major categories:
1) The older people like my parents who still live in the USSR - they don't understand the last 20 years and ruble is the only currency they know and understand. A lot of people like that who are 60 y.o. and older now.
2) Brainwashed Russians of all sorts and varieties, usually uneducated and performing menial tasks or with a formal education, so-called paper-pushers, but there are also some educated ones, we have seen some of them here and read the unbelievable crap they had to say - irrespective of their age.
A mix of those two groups is possible, including some religious zealots, so some weird varieties make up group #3 I guess.

Carl
11-01-2016, 19:55
For sure, comrade, definitely not yours :)


Comrade, it's a year old bayan from so called independent reputable Western media. BTW, old Russian proverb says - у кого чего болит, тот о том и говорит (one speaks about one's pain) ;)


Here are some useful resources for you, knight: http://www.becomingminimalist.com/ungreen-with-envy/
http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/340
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/05/12/8-ways-to-overcome-jealousy-and-envy/
;)

Andy, you seem to be hung up on this envy thing... (You must have a lot of free time to be searching the web to read up about it.. (Shouldn't you be out squeezing money from some weaker man? ..or woman/child?)

Can you point out 3 or 4 things one could be envy of in the current environment in the RF? 2 or 3..? How about just 1 or 2??

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 19:58
Andy, you seem to be hung up on this envy thing...

Why don't we refer our Supermoderator to his own words:


BTW, old Russian proverb says - у кого чего болит, тот о том и говорит (one speaks about one's pain)


How about just 1 or 2??

Hey, I can try answering this one. Brides - young, nubile, delicious brides clamorous for love and understanding.:)

Carl
11-01-2016, 20:06
Why don't we refer our Supermoderator to his own words:
BTW, old Russian proverb says - у кого чего болит, тот о том и говорит (one speaks about one's pain))

10 баллов Lad!!-)
Wasn't' he on about some 'Juvenile' character the other day? Two thirds of his posts could be considered Juvenile:loser:

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 20:09
Two thirds of his posts could be considered Juvenile

Post-adolescent narcissism.:) They are all like that in the Kontora, including the Boss. That's their biggest issue - still struggling with puberty and related complications/challenges. I have no idea why they have decided to drag the whole country into this, but that's the current lay of the land.:) FatAndy here, I doubt he has a high rank, but he is certainly connected and has been there, so let's wish this comrade of ours well.

Carl
11-01-2016, 20:10
Hey, I can try answering this one. Brides - young, nubile, delicious brides clamorous for love and understanding.:)


Of course.. I mean besides the women. We all know about the women:sacred:

FatAndy
11-01-2016, 20:14
Andy, you seem to be hung up on this envy thing... (You must have a lot of free time to be searching the web to read up about it.

I like to help people with their small issues, especially with short search strings in Yandex or Google. Yes, I have enough time, remember old Irish proverb.


Shouldn't you be out squeezing money from some weaker man? ..or woman/child?
No, the mechanism was launched and needs no attendance, everything goes in automatic mode.
BTW why you've excluded oldies? How discriminating and intolerant... :)

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 20:15
Nobby, forget about 75, it is 76 already. LOL :party::party::party:.....

Indeed and Brent oil is $31 Considering Urals trades 2-3 dollars below Brent, Russia's oil is now selling at $29
A couple more pretty charts! :winking:

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 20:17
Of course.. I mean besides the women. We all know about the women

That's not fair - someone will offer another point and then you will go: "Well, we all know about this one, I mean besides this one.":)

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 20:21
For sure, comrade, definitely not yours :).........

I'm making it my business. See the pretty charts above :laughing:

FatAndy
11-01-2016, 20:37
Wasn't' he on about some 'Juvenile' character the other day?
No, it was RL who mentioned juvenile idiot Yavlinsky and his wet dreams about "Putin must go" ;)


I'm making it my business. See the pretty charts above :laughing:
Your business is compiling them or just reposting? :)


I have no idea why they have decided to drag the whole country into this
It's pretty easy, comrade - sado/maso RPGs. :)

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 20:44
.....Your business is compiling them or just reposting? :)

..that would be my business lol! :winking:

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 21:04
I'm making it my business. See the pretty charts above :laughing:


Gee how much does trolling pay these days?

Judge
11-01-2016, 21:18
Gee how much does trolling pay these days?

More pretty charts the better,he's just getting carried away cos I answered his earlier question. .:drinks:
Some people just aren't happy even when they have the right answer. .

FatAndy
11-01-2016, 21:19
Gee how much does trolling pay these days?
Comrade Nobby is fair and sincere, come on... :)

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 21:23
Andy, you seem to be hung up on this envy thing... (You must have a lot of free time to be searching the web to read up about it.. (Shouldn't you be out squeezing money from some weaker man? ..or woman/child?)

Can you point out 3 or 4 things one could be envy of in the current environment in the RF? 2 or 3..? How about just 1 or 2??


What are you on about Carl? You cheer on one of if not the most evil governments this world has ever seen and you want to rag on Andy? You cheer people who invade countries under false pretenses then pay others to hand over innocent people and past false witness to crimes so they can torture and imprison people just to hide their crimes against humanity. Unbelievably idiotic Carl. How long has it been that it is blatantly obvious that Turkey and the USofA has been supporting terrorist? A month or two and you can't figure out what's going to happen when or if a country like the USA finally has total control? God Carl your blatant disregard for humanity is shining brightly.

Judge
11-01-2016, 21:24
It's called"dollarization" and it's already here. China and Russia have been moving forward on this for a year now. Oil is just the next step and a very good one at that. Russian crude futures will be priced in rubles on the SPIMEX.



And why not in rubles? Because America says all oil must be sold in $. We know that got Saddam Hussein killed. Putin won't be so easy.

This is interesting, I don't the how it will all work out, the main aim is not to be tied to the dollar,where low oil won't effect the ruble,less volatile is better for the ruble ,which is OK,but for an exporting oil and gas, being paid in dollar or euros is good for the oil and gas companies. .

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 21:27
More pretty charts the better,he's just getting carried away cos I answered his earlier question. .:drinks:
Some people just aren't happy even when they have the right answer. .


Nobody likes a smart a** and lazy people hate you when you're right.

I wonder if he gets a bonus for posting petty charts.


(There is no spelling mistakes in this post)

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 21:32
This is interesting, I don't the how it will all work out, the main aim is not to be tied to the dollar,where low oil won't effect the ruble,less volatile is better for the ruble ,which is OK,but for an exporting oil and gas, being paid in dollar or euros is good for the oil and gas companies. .


US power lays in the fact that everyone needs the dollar to do business. Funny but the Chinese and Russia are paying for their own harassment every time they sell or buy something with dollars. Not wanting to throw the world into chaos China and Russia are going at it slow.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 21:32
More pretty charts the better,he's just getting carried away cos I answered his earlier question. .:drinks:
Some people just aren't happy even when they have the right answer. .

Nobby's looking forward to 80 rubles to the dollar! Can't be far off now! :winking:

Judge
11-01-2016, 21:50
Nobby's looking forward to 80 rubles to the dollar! Can't be far off now! :winking:

You should come over for a visit, your money will go further, like fenrir just did, eat at some of the most expensive restaurants here. .
It's surreal how things have changed for visitors to Moscow, before it was a delight for us to go west and enjoy cheap shopping, now the tables have turned. .
You'll be paying 3 quid for a pint of Guinness ,cheapest pint you'll ever find.

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 21:52
Maybe he can even have sex with a real girl!

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 21:53
Nobby's looking forward to 80 rubles to the dollar! Can't be far off now! :winking:


That's right nobody in their right mind would be looking forward to that.

Judge
11-01-2016, 21:58
Maybe he can even have sex with a real girl!

Hmmmm, he did post this earlier,

Latest business updates...

Prostitutes in the Arctic city of Murmansk said they were hiking prices by 40% and would forthwith peg them to the dollar...

No one is immune!

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 22:05
I bet Wally has already boarded a train bound for Murmansk to investigate the alleged price increase.

Carl
11-01-2016, 22:11
What are you on about Carl? You cheer on one of if not the most evil governments this world has ever seen and you want to rag on Andy? You cheer people who invade countries under false pretenses then pay others to hand over innocent people and past false witness to crimes so they can torture and imprison people just to hide their crimes against humanity. Unbelievably idiotic Carl. How long has it been that it is blatantly obvious that Turkey and the USofA has been supporting terrorist? A month or two and you can't figure out what's going to happen when or if a country like the USA finally has total control? God Carl your blatant disregard for humanity is shining brightly.

OMG.. You really are a loser Willy. How many times have you accused me of supporting the policies of the US..? And how many times have I asked you to point to even ONE example..? Just one!!
Pull your head out of your ass mate. You must be getting low on oxygen! You rant and rave like a complete freaking moron!! I suspect it's very good thing your humanitarian friend is letting you squat at his flat for free.. If not, I'm sure we'd see you passing the days at one of the vogzals!

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 22:24
You should come over for a visit, your money will go further, like fenrir just did, eat at some of the most expensive restaurants here. .
It's surreal how things have changed for visitors to Moscow, before it was a delight for us to go west and enjoy cheap shopping, now the tables have turned. .
You'll be paying 3 quid for a pint of Guinness ,cheapest pint you'll ever find.

Absolutely, i'd love to come. Have great memories of my time in Moscow and all the places i lived and worked in Russia. Also a big fan of taking advantage of exchange rates when i can but unfortunately i'm busy at the moment. My next trip will be to South America later this year or early next.

I can still remember in 2001, picking up one of those large cans of vodka and orange at the kiosk by Lenninski Prospect metro for 10 rubles on my way home. Those were the days! :winking:

Nobbynumbnuts
11-01-2016, 22:29
I bet Wally has already boarded a train bound for Murmansk to investigate the alleged price increase.

.....This is Wally W#$%&* reporting for Russia Today from Murmansk! :laughing:

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 22:35
OMG.. You really are a loser Willy. How many times have you accused me of supporting the policies of the US..? And how many times have I asked you to point to even ONE example..? Just one!!
Pull your head out of your ass mate. You must be getting low on oxygen! You rant and rave like a complete freaking moron!! I suspect it's very good thing your humanitarian friend is letting you squat at his flat for free.. If not, I'm sure we'd see you passing the days at one of the vogzals!


Carl it is pretty obvious who you support.


My friend is just rich and after the babushka died is waiting to sell this flat. I have six months and most likely be helping him as the remont goes on. But you wouldn't know much about friends would you.

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 22:37
I bet Wally has already boarded a train bound for Murmansk to investigate the alleged price increase.

I don't think I could explain that to my girlfriend.

fenrir
11-01-2016, 22:39
You should come over for a visit, your money will go further, like fenrir just did, eat at some of the most expensive restaurants here. .
It's surreal how things have changed for visitors to Moscow, before it was a delight for us to go west and enjoy cheap shopping, now the tables have turned. .
You'll be paying 3 quid for a pint of Guinness ,cheapest pint you'll ever find.

Shopping for the kids at Detsky Mir was less painful too! My father-in-law and I also had fun trying out various beers from different parts of Russia: Altai, Cheboksary and Tomsk.

Uncle Wally
11-01-2016, 22:41
Absolutely, i'd love to come. Have great memories of my time in Moscow and all the places i lived and worked in Russia. Also a big fan of taking advantage of exchange rates when i can but unfortunately i'm busy at the moment. My next trip will be to South America later this year or early next.

I can still remember in 2001, picking up one of those large cans of vodka and orange at the kiosk by Lenninski Prospect metro for 10 rubles on my way home. Those were the days! :winking:



Wow, life was good huh? Vodka cocktails from the kiosk life doesn't get better than that! Just too bad your alcoholism got in the way of you becoming something.

Russian Lad
11-01-2016, 23:15
Just too bad your alcoholism got in the way of you becoming something.


:party::party::party::clown::dont-tell-anyone:

fenrir
12-01-2016, 00:00
I suspect it's very good thing your humanitarian friend is letting you squat at his flat for free

Why would someone who (supposedly) gets $6000 a song, plus royalties, need to sponge accommodation off a friend?

Russian Lad
12-01-2016, 08:37
Why would someone who (supposedly) gets $6000 a song, plus royalties, need to sponge accommodation off a friend?

Poor Wally. :music:

Uncle Wally
12-01-2016, 09:23
Why would someone who (supposedly) gets $6000 a song, plus royalties, need to sponge accommodation off a friend?


It's $2000 a song and I am helping my friend. I need to live here until the remont is done and the place is sold, 6 months maybe. You sound so jealous.

Carl
12-01-2016, 09:56
Carl it is pretty obvious who you support.

Really? How so?

Russian Lad
12-01-2016, 10:02
I need to live here until the remont is done and the place is sold, 6 months maybe

The remont, it will fail without your valuable assistance? Or you are kept there as a watchdog because he is trying to save on a proper alarm system? Wally the remontnik, there is always something new. :party:

Carl
12-01-2016, 10:06
Just too bad your alcoholism got in the way of you becoming something.

Are you even gainfully employed? Do you have any marketable skills (other than banging on your drums)? I remember not so long ago there was this Willy chap here who would post about his life crashing at whoever's place would have him for a few nights.. Hopping from bar to bar hoping to get a few free drinks or a meal out of someone.. Bailing on the mother of his child.. Then he said he had terminal cancer and would not live out the year. Not sure what happened to that chap. Terminal usually means terminal... Oddly, you seem to have many similarities with that dude... (?)

Russian Lad
12-01-2016, 10:40
A map showing how national currencies have devalued since 2014 in relation to the dollar:

Uncle Wally
12-01-2016, 11:45
Are you even gainfully employed? Do you have any marketable skills (other than banging on your drums)? I remember not so long ago there was this Willy chap here who would post about his life crashing at whoever's place would have him for a few nights.. Hopping from bar to bar hoping to get a few free drinks or a meal out of someone.. Bailing on the mother of his child.. Then he said he had terminal cancer and would not live out the year. Not sure what happened to that chap. Terminal usually means terminal... Oddly, you seem to have many similarities with that dude... (?)


You got it all wrong Carl as usual. I started drinking only three years ago before that I didn't drink much at all and I didn't drink a drop when I was having trouble, drinking is a new thing for me. I have a tumor in one of my main bronchial tubes so far it just makes it hard to breath and I get sick more often and tired more quickly. It's bad enough to where I cannot play drums much at all. I did just write and produce an album for a group. Wrote 15 songs of which 13 will appear on the album. We recorded it just before new year and hopefully soon we can get it mixed. I may also be opening a club this year but my friend wants to go slow on that.

Alan65
12-01-2016, 13:22
"Brunswick owns 25 700 wagons, or around 2% of the national fleet. Since its peak operating performance in 2012, EBITDA has declined from US$257m to US$86m for the year to September 30. Open wagon daily spot rates have decreased from US$50 to less than US$7, while the rouble has declined from 30 to 72·92 per dollar, resulting in customers shifting contracts from dollars to roubles"

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/business/single-view/view/brunswick-rail-reviews-business-amid-downturn.html

Nobbynumbnuts
12-01-2016, 18:22
A map showing how national currencies have devalued since 2014 in relation to the dollar:

I was reading somewhere that ruble has been the worst performing currency against the dollar, in the past year.
Oil hit $31.50 and the ruble 76.80 today.

Oil $29 and ruble at 80 this week? :winking:

Russian Lad
12-01-2016, 18:47
Oil $29 and ruble at 80 this week? :winking:

Sounds possible.

FatAndy
12-01-2016, 20:16
:emote_popcorn:

Judge
12-01-2016, 20:28
Shopping for the kids at Detsky Mir was less painful too! My father-in-law and I also had fun trying out various beers from different parts of Russia: Altai, Cheboksary and Tomsk.

Did you try a craft beer pub, many around the city now,you can find a good choice of local beer,average price 180ru, same goes for foreign beers.

Russian Lad
12-01-2016, 21:34
Boy, am I enjoying this brutal carnage: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-12/commodity-returns-fall-to-lowest-since-at-least-1991-on-oil-rout

Judge
12-01-2016, 22:22
Boy, am I enjoying this brutal carnage: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-12/commodity-returns-fall-to-lowest-since-at-least-1991-on-oil-rout


Thanks for that link, in the 3rd article was this useful info,

Charging a Smartphone While Driving Isn't as Free as You Think
That’s because a phone drawing electricity from a USB port cuts 0.03 miles from each gallon of gasoline in a tank. Across the fleet of vehicles in the U.S., that would mean about 970,000 tons of extra planet-warming carbon dioxide a year, according to calculations by Jon Bereisa, a retired General Motors Co. engineering executive who studies vehicle power usage. With a race under way to see how many charging ports automakers can cram into a car, the increased pollution is only going to get worse.

fenrir
12-01-2016, 22:29
Did you try a craft beer pub, many around the city now,you can find a good choice of local beer,average price 180ru, same goes for foreign beers.

We did in the summer and we enjoyed it very much. The small shops around my in-laws place have an incredible variety of Russian and Belarussian beers. We worked our way through quite a lot of them. They were mostly priced between 50-75 rubles, with 60 being common. That's about the same as I pay for local beer from shops here.

Uncle Wally
12-01-2016, 22:30
Boy, am I enjoying this brutal carnage: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-12/commodity-returns-fall-to-lowest-since-at-least-1991-on-oil-rout


Why would you?

Russian Lad
12-01-2016, 23:08
Why would you?


One good reason, among many - because it irritates Wally here.:party:


Thanks for that link, in the 3rd article was this useful info,

Whatever makes you happy, Judge.:)

Uncle Wally
12-01-2016, 23:39
One good reason, among many - because it irritates Wally here.:party:



Whatever makes you happy, Judge.:)



Ah you suck up to the moderators and wish bad upon the powerless. Now I see why you are an ardent believer in the American way. Might is right? You do understand that after they get rid of us, you will just be more enslaved don't you? I am not so sure you do.

Russian Lad
12-01-2016, 23:45
Ah you suck up to the moderators and wish bad upon the powerless. Now I see why you are an ardent believer in the American way. Might is right? You do understand that after they get rid of us, you will just be more enslaved don't you? I am not so sure you do.

Ask Judge if I suck up to him.:)
Me more enslaved? It is not humanly possible, I am like a quicksand. But after your side loses I will experience a huge joy and relief. Whatever it takes, comrade. :dont-tell-anyone::dont-tell-anyone::dont-tell-anyone: As a translator I will have more work if the relations with the West get back to normal, as a dating site owner I will also be doing ok, not sure how they can ensalve me? Kindly tell me, bearing in mind that I am not a menial worker or a roustabout on a rig. I am selling words and dreams - they are always in demand. It is a win-win scenario for me personally. You disagree?:)))

Uncle Wally
13-01-2016, 00:03
Ask Judge if I suck up to him.:)
Me more enslaved? It is not humanly possible, I am like a quicksand. But after your side loses I will experience a huge joy and relief. Whatever it takes, comrade. :dont-tell-anyone::dont-tell-anyone::dont-tell-anyone: As a translator I will have more work if the relations with the West get back to normal, as a dating site owner I will also be doing ok, not sure how they can ensalve me? Kindly tell me, bearing in mind that I am not a menial worker or a roustabout on a rig. I am selling words and dreams - they are always in demand. It is a win-win scenario for me personally. You disagree?:)))



That's the thing you fail to see! If we lose you lose too, you ain't no billionaire and the likes of you will be a dime a dozen. Dreams? You think you sell dreams? You ain't selling nothing yet buddy and it get real old hearing tow things from you, one, we all gonna starve! Two, you gonna be rich some day. Tell us when it happens and throw a party, I'll be the first one to congratulate you.

Russian Lad
13-01-2016, 00:30
That's the thing you fail to see! If we lose you lose too, you ain't no billionaire and the likes of you will be a dime a dozen. Dreams? You think you sell dreams? You ain't selling nothing yet buddy and it get real old hearing tow things from you, one, we all gonna starve! Two, you gonna be rich some day. Tell us when it happens and throw a party, I'll be the first one to congratulate you.

No-no, Wally, if you lose, you lose - I win.:) I will not let you pave a way to a dignified defeat. You will lose _miserably_ and in shame.:) As to what I am selling or not, what do you know?:) Do you really expect me to post my income here, the present or the future one? Just rest assured, it is well above an average Moscow salary even as we speak, even though I still like to rummage for rotten chicken wings and potato peels in garbage containers, but that's just a hobby and a weakness of mine, hope you don't mind, old sport. Something tells me one day you will have to do it too, and not necessarily out of an idle curiosity like I do.

Uncle Wally
13-01-2016, 10:25
No-no, Wally, if you lose, you lose - I win.:) I will not let you pave a way to a dignified defeat. You will lose _miserably_ and in shame.:) As to what I am selling or not, what do you know?:) Do you really expect me to post my income here, the present or the future one? Just rest assured, it is well above an average Moscow salary even as we speak, even though I still like to rummage for rotten chicken wings and potato peels in garbage containers, but that's just a hobby and a weakness of mine, hope you don't mind, old sport. Something tells me one day you will have to do it too, and not necessarily out of an idle curiosity like I do.


No, you didn't get the point. If America becomes all powerful that means the world will be ruled by corporations with the soul intent of making them rich and enslaving the rest. I know you understand that governments are not working to make people's lives better.

Russian Lad
13-01-2016, 10:34
No, you didn't get the point. If America becomes all powerful that means the world will be ruled by corporations with the soul intent of making them rich and enslaving the rest. I know you understand that governments are not working to make people's lives better.

It seems to be a lie. Look at Fantastika here, he lives in the US and seems to be working on his own, has just bought a house and seems to be doing ok. I have some friends in the US who don't belong to corporations and are doing just fine. Why are you lying all the time? Besides, corporations exist here too.

Carl
13-01-2016, 10:45
No, you didn't get the point. If America becomes all powerful that means the world will be ruled by corporations with the soul intent of making them rich and enslaving the rest. I know you understand that governments are not working to make people's lives better.

Do you know the difference between Soul & Sole....?

Carl
13-01-2016, 10:48
It seems to be a lie. Look at Fantastika here, he lives in the US and seems to be working on his own, has just bought a house and seems to be doing ok. I have some friends in the US who don't belong to corporations and are doing just fine. Why are you lying all the time? Besides, corporations exist here too.

Yeah..I suspect that all of Willy's billionaire friends gained their wealth running humanitarian organizations as well.