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Nobbynumbnuts
08-12-2015, 21:16
.......Russia can cope with a low price ..

For how long? And it's the Russian people who will bear the brunt of a low oil price. Budget cuts and a weaker ruble that will result in higher inflation (currently 15%). That's just for starters..

FatAndy
08-12-2015, 22:01
And it's the Russian people who will bear the brunt of a low oil price.
I've even shed a few tears from your sympathy, comrade... Thank you... :rasta:

TolkoRaz
08-12-2015, 22:04
Just look up the Montreux Convention or check WIKI. Clearly states they have to keep it open to naval traffic from Black Sea states only. If they closed it to Russia that would be in effect an act of war

Thanks - that is all I need to know! ;)

They will not close it! ;) Famous last words! :D

Russian Lad
08-12-2015, 23:16
For how long? And it's the Russian people who will bear the brunt of a low oil price. Budget cuts and a weaker ruble that will result in higher inflation (currently 15%). That's just for starters..

Some economists I trust claim that the number of Russians below the reasonable poverty line is 45 million people (out of 150 million). Russia has become like Nigeria or even worse, I see no difference from the economic standpoint. Welcome to Africa, comrades. Wonder when the first food shortages/deliveries disruptions begin. Time is of an essence.
It is true that Russia went through much worse times in the past and people could bear many hardships - but back then there was a cause, fighting Hitler, for instance. What is the cause today - helping Timchenko and Rotenberg families build more mansions or ensuring that Peskov gets yet another expensive watch and his daugher has a great time in France while Lavrov's daughter enjoys living in the US?


For how long?

The notion of timing is lost on many Russians for some reason, I guess it may be contagious since Judge is not exactly a Russian, as I understand.


They will not close it! Famous last words!

I have written this down for the reference in the near future, comrade, if you don't mind. As for me, I don't exclude such an eventuality, all options seem to be on the table, some - of a rather troubling nature.

Judge
09-12-2015, 00:14
For how long? And it's the Russian people who will bear the brunt of a low oil price. Budget cuts and a weaker ruble that will result in higher inflation (currently 15%). That's just for starters..

Depends how low it goes, if keeps around $20 for months then Russia will suffer, there is no denying that, oil companies here will just about break even at that price. .

Nobbynumbnuts
09-12-2015, 01:49
Depends how low it goes, if keeps around $20 for months then Russia will suffer, there is no denying that, oil companies here will just about break even at that price. .

I don't expect oil to fall as low as $20 but if it did Russia would unravel pretty quickly. Rub/$ would be well below 100. The Russian government would probably have to step in to protect the ruble. That would mean burning through billions of dollar reserves. Capital outflows would be massive. Exchange controls would need to be put in place, inflation skyrocketing ect.

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 07:32
That would mean burning through billions of dollar reserves.

They may be burning a lot even now, regardless of what they say.

Judge
09-12-2015, 09:02
They may be burning a lot even now, regardless of what they say.

I'll let you in on a little secret,
“The Reserve Fund is dedicated to ensure financing of the federal budget expenses and maintaining federal budget balance in case oil and gas budget revenues decline,” said the Russian Ministry of Finance in a statement on its website.

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 09:12
I'll let you in on a little secret,
“The Reserve Fund is dedicated to ensure financing of the federal budget expenses and maintaining federal budget balance in case oil and gas budget revenues decline,” said the Russian Ministry of Finance in a statement on its website.

By burning I mean spending hard currency on propping the ruble rate, it is not exactly "financing the federal budget expenses", is it? So, this reserve fund will be depleted soon (1-2 years, less time?) at the current rate, what then?

Judge
09-12-2015, 09:30
By burning I mean spending hard currency on propping the ruble rate, it is not exactly "financing the federal budget expenses", is it? So, this reserve fund will be depleted soon (1-2 years, less time?) at the current rate, what then?

The ruble is free floating, floats, goes up and down ...there should be no need to prop up the ruble,if there is a collapse like last year then yes, they might prop up the ruble. ..

What when all the money runs out, doom gloom catastrophe,run to the hills..

Armoured
09-12-2015, 11:04
Is there an international law that clearly states exactly that?

Here's the full text of the agreement:
http://sam.baskent.edu.tr/belge/Montreux_ENG.pdf

(Please note, there may have been modest amendments since then, I don't know if this is the most up-to-date version).

But in short:
-In time of peace, Merchant (i.e. non-military) ships of all states have free passage.
-Same applies in time of war if Turkey not being belligerent (a party to hostilities).
-If Turkey belligerent, all countries not at war with Turkey may pass (subject to not aiding enemy).
-If Turkey believes danger of war 'imminent', some restrictions on passage during daytime and route, etc.

War vessels (note a lot of detail here about size and tonnage and other technical stuff, notification, submarines have to be on surface, etc., etc):
-very small vessels have free passage.
-Black Sea Powers have free passage if not at war.
-limits however on how many at once.
-limits on how much tonnage/how many ships of non-Black Sea Powers may be in Black Sea at once.
-in wartime, Turkey not belligerent, same rules apply _except_ for belligerents - which may pass only if under League of Nations (I think UN Sec Counc applies now) mandate.
-in wartime, Turkey belligerent, warships passing entirely at discretion of Turkey. (Same applies if Turkey believes war is imminent, with some procedures for other parties to appeal to UN).

So I disagree with the overly hysterical statement that closing it is an act of war.

-Turkey has some pretty significant ability to close if it believes a state of war exists between other states.

-Turkey being a belligerent is the key part that people are using to say closing it would be an act of war. It would be a declaration that Turkey believes there is a _state of war_ (hostilities) or that one is imminent. For Turkey to say it believes there is a state of war is somewhat different from an act of war.

Imminent is a pretty big loophole in this respect.

If Turkey were to close the straits to passage for Russian warships, Russia could certainly react or say it considers it an act of war, but I think formally (under international law) it may have to take steps at UN Security Council, etc, depending on how exactly Turkey formulated and dealt with procedures.

That said, saying/admitting that there is a state of war is a Very Big Deal - and would, I think, open up various other routes of response to Russia compared to an assumed state of peace between them.

fenrir
09-12-2015, 12:59
Or Turkey can do it Russian style and arrange for a very large ship (better one of their own) to have an 'accident' in the narrowest part that would take some time to clear.

Judge
09-12-2015, 14:10
Or Turkey can do it Russian style and arrange for a very large ship (better one of their own) to have an 'accident' in the narrowest part that would take some time to clear.

How about Turkey asking their good friends the US to come up with another Gulf of Tonkin incident :rolleyes:

Judge
09-12-2015, 14:25
The people who know more about the ruble think it's still overvalued can could weaken more.

"the ruble is slightly overvalued at its current level of 69 and could fall to 70-75 rubles per US dollar." Meanwhile, experts at Sberbank CIB assume that "an RTS Index at around 800 seems to be fairly priced."
http://tass.ru/en/economy/842321

And Medvedev says,

Russian economy is quite stable, despite current conditions
http://tass.ru/en/economy/842321

Armoured
09-12-2015, 15:07
And Medvedev says,

"Quite stable, despite current conditions..."

That's hysterical.

Probably not intentionally so, unfortunately.

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 15:20
Russian economy is quite stable, despite current conditions

Right, while 45 million Russians suffer from malnutrition like in the poorest African countries. Medvedev is taking all the Russians for intellectually challenged people, it seems. History will prove him wrong. Even the kvas patriots will not be able to eat their own fairytales.


That's hysterical.

More like wishful thinking. Everything was very stable in 1988 as well.


The people who know more about the ruble think it's still overvalued can could weaken more.

"the ruble is slightly overvalued at its current level of 69 and could fall to 70-75 rubles per US dollar." Meanwhile, experts at Sberbank CIB assume that "an RTS Index at around 800 seems to be fairly priced."

Make it 100+.

Nobbynumbnuts
09-12-2015, 16:29
I don't expect oil to fall as low as $20..........

Looks like Goldman Sachs disagrees with me.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/oil-price/60838/oil-price-why-are-analysts-predicting-a-crash

"Sentiment is undeniably bearish and predictions abound of a fresh crash to come. The forecast from Goldman Sachs for prices to hit $20 a barrel in the near future, which seemed far-fetched when first uttered earlier in the autumn, is now seen as a realistic target for a market floor that continues to give way."

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 17:07
Looks like Goldman Sachs disagrees with me.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/oil-price/60838/oil-price-why-are-analysts-predicting-a-crash

"Sentiment is undeniably bearish and predictions abound of a fresh crash to come. The forecast from Goldman Sachs for prices to hit $20 a barrel in the near future, which seemed far-fetched when first uttered earlier in the autumn, is now seen as a realistic target for a market floor that continues to give way."

Yaaaahhhoooooo! Let it rip (and RIP).:smug::music::music::music::gift::love::drinks::drinks::drinks::cool::cool::cool:

Judge
09-12-2015, 17:26
Looks like Goldman Sachs disagrees with me.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/oil-price/60838/oil-price-why-are-analysts-predicting-a-crash

"Sentiment is undeniably bearish and predictions abound of a fresh crash to come. The forecast from Goldman Sachs for prices to hit $20 a barrel in the near future, which seemed far-fetched when first uttered earlier in the autumn, is now seen as a realistic target for a market floor that continues to give way."
You already posted the GS forecast few weeks ago,that's why I posted above oil dropping to $20, it's a lot to do with oil storage space running out....
Posting it again just gets people like RL excited, which is a good thing...:smug:
Post18
http://forum.expat.ru/showthread.php?670440-Oil-Falls-Below-

40&p=1435439&highlight=#post1435439

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 17:32
You already posted the GS forecast few weeks ago,that's why I posted above oil dropping to $20, it's a lot to do with oil storage space running out....
Posting it again just gets people like RL excited, which is a good thing...:smug:
Post18
http://forum.expat.ru/showthread.php?670440-Oil-Falls-Below-

40&p=1435439&highlight=#post1435439

It says in the article it seemed far fetched and now it doesn't seem so. Judge, you would be in charge of the orchestra on the Titanic... A nice and even noble role provided you have a life vest to aid your buoyancy - ice-cold water is not conducive to pleasurable swimming... :smug:

Judge
09-12-2015, 17:40
It says in the article it seemed far fetched and now it doesn't seem so. Judge, you would be in charge of the orchestra on the Titanic... A nice and even noble role provided you have a life vest to aid your buoyancy... :smug:
The new article is just to please people like you,that's why he posted it, to get you excited, which is working. Maybe Nobbs forgot he posted the same forecast. ..:winking:
It didn't seem far fetched when it was first posted by Nobby, there's been talk of shortage of storage space for a while now, they can't build them fast enough, with the major oil companies pumping at the rate they are, this was expected,don't you think the companies know this already.
It might sound strange to you, but Russia is also helping to push down the price of oil.



ice-cold water is not conducive to pleasurable swimming

We are in Russia, expect to swim in ice cold water from time to time ...

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 17:57
It might sound strange to you, but Russia is also helping to push down the price of oil.

This is a relatively new theory, kindly elaborate on this please.:) Are they doing it because 45 million dirt-poor Russians are not enough, they want to impoverish like a solid 100 million of their own citizens? Do they want me to downscale from eating rotten chicken wings and potato peels to munching boiled grass? That's brutal then, besides, where am I supposed to find grass to boil now, in the middle of the winter? It is not available even in the garbage containers I rummage through daily, not in this time of the year.:(

Judge
09-12-2015, 18:02
This is a relatively new theory, kindly elaborate on this please.:) Are they doing it because 45 million dirt-poor Russians are not enough, they want to impoverish like a solid 100 million of their own citizens? Do they want me to downscale from eating rotten chicken wings and potato peels to munching boiled grass? That's brutal then.

Why not round it off to 50 million dirt poor Russians. ...

About this new theory, I'll let you try and work it out for yourself. .

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 18:04
About this new theory, I'll let you try and work it out for yourself. .

Give me a hint, shale oil producers? If so, it is not going to hit them hard - they will pack up and will resume their activities as soon as the dust settles a bit, they are rather mobile (besides, we don't really know how the US government might be supporting them in this big game). But it doesn't answer my question in my previous post. You seem to be trying to turn a bitter defeat into a victorious effort - doubt it will take you very far (even the kvas patriots will not buy it on empty stomachs).

Judge
09-12-2015, 18:10
Give me a hint, shale oil producers? If so, it is not going to hit them hard - they will pack up and will resume their activities as soon as the dust settles a bit, they are rather mobile (besides, we don't really know how the US government might be supporting them in this big game). But it doesn't answer my question in my previous post. You seem to be trying to turn a bitter defeat into a victorious effort - doubt it will take you very far (even the kvas patriots will not buy it on empty stomachs).


More to do with the destabilizing a few monarchies in the Middle East,shale drillers is just a side bonus.

Russian Lad
09-12-2015, 18:21
More to do with the destabilizing a few monarchies in the Middle East.

With the Russian oil extraction capacities??? Let me assure you that most well clusters, say, in the West Siberia, are living their last years, if not months, they haven't invested into prospecting for ages properly and are breathing their last breath. The Russian oil output cannot be increased any further, soon you may even see a decrease. And no access to Western technologies for this industry is nothing short of a disaster in the making.
Have you even been to a Russian oil field anywhere?:)

Nobbynumbnuts
09-12-2015, 21:25
With the Russian oil extraction capacities??? Let me assure you that most well clusters, say, in the West Siberia, are living their last years, if not months, they haven't invested into prospecting for ages properly and are breathing their last breath. The Russian oil output cannot be increased any further, soon you may even see a decrease. And no access to Western technologies for this industry is nothing short of a disaster in the making.
Have you even been to a Russian oil field anywhere?:)

Have been reading the same. Russian oil is in serious need of modern technology to maximize potential from old wells...
Watching the news tonight and many analysts are saying commodity prices will go lower. Let's see....

Judge
10-12-2015, 07:17
With the Russian oil extraction capacities??? Let me assure you that most well clusters, say, in the West Siberia, are living their last years, if not months, they haven't invested into prospecting for ages properly and are breathing their last breath. The Russian oil output cannot be increased any further, soon you may even see a decrease. And no access to Western technologies for this industry is nothing short of a disaster in the making.
Have you even been to a Russian oil field anywhere?:)

Russia hasn't invested in new wells , new fields,new technologies ,Ok, next will be Russia is soon to run out of oil.

From the US Energey information administration,

In 2013, production of oil and natural gas in West Siberia totaled 6.2 million barrels per day of crude oil and 21.1 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of natural gas, respectively, down from peak production levels in the 1980s. Russian energy companies Rosneft and Gazprom Neft have increased the efficiency of older fields in West Siberia by implementing technologies like multiple leg horizontal drilling and multistage hydrofracking; however, further increasing West Siberian production will require substantial investment. Consequently, Russia is considering developing its significant but less-accessible reserves in previously undeveloped regions.

Of course western sanctions might course some problems, but there are ways around that, not all oil companies are leaving Russia.


Have you even been to a Russian oil field anywhere?
No, but was near a gas terminal east of Vorkuta,not a place I would like to visit again, I prefer visiting unspoilt nature, and you ,when was the last time you visted an oil field, I would think much has changed since your last visit.

Russian Lad
10-12-2015, 09:26
when was the last time you visted an oil field, I would think much has changed since your last visit.


In 2008. If it changed, it hasn't changed for the better, I assure you.


further increasing West Siberian production will require substantial investment

And technologies + Western expertise, to do it effectively. Where are they going to get all that, in the near future? Besides, it takes a lot of time from prospecting to drilling - years.


down from peak production levels in the 1980s

Exactly, because of what I have said already.


next will be Russia is soon to run out of oil

Of easily accessible oil - yes, quite soon, within 10-20 years, by a substantial margin if not completely.

Nobbynumbnuts
10-12-2015, 11:39
Russia hasn't invested in new wells , new fields,new technologies ,Ok, next will be Russia is soon to run out of oil......

No one is saying Russia is about to run out of oil but many of the fields are old and in need of new technology and investment. Not hard to believe if you look around at Russian infrastructure, generally.

Alan65
10-12-2015, 17:20
Perhaps this is an imprecise measure but my wife and daughter went to the UK visa centre in St Petes today, got there 30 minutes early and they were the only people there, they never saw another person in the 2 hours there.

TolkoRaz
10-12-2015, 19:33
Perhaps this is an imprecise measure but my wife and daughter went to the UK visa centre in St Petes today, got there 30 minutes early and they were the only people there, they never saw another person in the 2 hours there.

Where was RusskiLad? :confused:

Russian Lad
10-12-2015, 19:51
Where was RusskiLad?

Asks a Russian patriot with the UK passport... :music:

Judge
10-12-2015, 21:15
In 2008. If it changed, it hasn't changed for the better, I assure you.

Long time, there is now horizontal drilling .


And technologies + Western expertise, to do it effectively. Where are they going to get all that, in the near future? Besides, it takes a lot of time from prospecting to drilling - years.

Statoil,Shell and BP still do business here,probably others too.
I agree, western expertise is needed, but a I would like to believe that the Russians learnt a thing or two from the Western experts.


Exactly, because of what I have said already.

My post also mentioned gas, we don't have the figures for oil only, but even if it is down, they are drilling elsewhere, West Siberia fields supplies just over 60% of all Russia's oil, used to be over 70%.There is the East Sibriea and other places .

BTW, the fields we are talking about here are bigger than most countries. :)



Of easily accessible oil - yes, quite soon, within 10-20 years, by a substantial margin if not completely.
Maybe.

Cussing you right now, writing this post made me miss my metro stop. .:bash:

Judge
10-12-2015, 21:53
Perhaps this is an imprecise measure but my wife and daughter went to the UK visa centre in St Petes today, got there 30 minutes early and they were the only people there, they never saw another person in the 2 hours there.

Numbers are down for sure, from all the Russians I know, only about 3 are leaving for the New Years holidays.


Where was RusskiLad? :confused:

American visa centre. :D

Alan65
10-12-2015, 22:19
Numbers are down for sure, from all the Russians I know, only about 3 are leaving for the New Years holidays.



American visa centre. :D

Judge, will you care to put this in perspective, 3 out of how many?

Where are they going, Schenghen zone, Thailand, India, UK etc, do they need visas?

Judge
10-12-2015, 22:24
Judge, will you care to put this in perspective, 3 out of how many?

Yes, that would help, about 15 I asked , there are others,closer friends I know who won't be leaving for sure,no need to ask them,I ain't even leaving.
It's no surprise, with the ruble the way it is....I think it was you who first posted about easyjet stopping flights.I know one guy who is taking his wife to Turkey for a short break this weekend, cheap flights 10000ru,some bargains can still be found.
I know 2 families that are packing up and leaving for Belgium and Malaysia next year,that's nothing new, people come and go all the time..

Just checked, numbers are down by a 1/3 this year,
http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/russian-tourists-foreign-trips/

Ok, I'll put my usual spin on it, less money spent abroad means more money spent inside Russia.:floating:

fenrir
10-12-2015, 22:49
Numbers are down for sure, from all the Russians I know, only about 3 are leaving for the New Years holidays.



American visa centre. :D

Russian bookings here for this season are up 20%.

TolkoRaz
10-12-2015, 22:51
Russian bookings here for this season are up 20%.

Little Green Men? ;)

Judge
10-12-2015, 23:15
Russian bookings here for this season are up 20%.

Good to hear, massive boost for your economy. ...

fenrir
10-12-2015, 23:16
Little Green Men? ;)

Ha, ha! Just displaced tourists who want good food, good drink (no fake booze) and none of that 'I have a good deal for just you today, my friend' market BS.

fenrir
10-12-2015, 23:20
Good to hear, massive boost for your economy. ...

It's great for business. Believe it or not, Russian and American tourists are considered to be the best kind of tourists here.

Judge
10-12-2015, 23:22
Little Green Men? ;)

:dont-tell-anyone:
Next you'll be telling Russia's activated the S-400 missile defence system in that area. .
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151210/1031528100/russia-defense-s400-drills.html

Judge
10-12-2015, 23:32
It's great for business. Believe it or not, Russian and American tourists are considered to be the best kind of tourists here.

Big spenders,really enjoyed old town Tallinn, I prefered Tallinn to Riga, after spending a few days in Tallinn during Xmas time ,Riga was a let down, I think the smallness of old Tallinn is what won me over,Riga was too busy for my liking, not the type of place I wanna spend my time after Moscow. .

fenrir
10-12-2015, 23:39
Big spenders,really enjoyed old town Tallinn, I prefered Tallinn to Riga, after spending a few days in Tallinn during Xmas time ,Riga was a let down, I think the smallness of old Tallinn is what won me over,Riga was too busy for my liking, not the type of place I wanna spend my time after Moscow. .

I'm actually going to Riga this weekend with the wife (and NO kids!!!). It will be my first non-work related trip there.

TolkoRaz
10-12-2015, 23:49
Ha, ha! Just displaced tourists who want good food, good drink (no fake booze) and none of that 'I have a good deal for just you today, my friend' market BS.

Not quite your country of current residence, but I have spent a few New Years at the spa at Druskininkai and Summers on the coast in Palanga - I do enjoy the Baltics; very clean and pure! :)

Judge
11-12-2015, 10:32
"Quite stable, despite current conditions..."

That's hysterical.

Probably not intentionally so, unfortunately.

Stable now and forecast is for growth in the new year, sorry to disappoint but it seems the worst is over. .

Carl
11-12-2015, 10:32
Asks a Russian patriot with the UK passport... :music:

No.. Can't be.
Lad, surly you are mistaken. Why on earth would a solid Russian patriot like Tolka lessen his credibility by holding a passport from one of the unfriendly to the RF western governments?
You must be mistaken in this instance..

Judge
11-12-2015, 12:22
Friday's joke,

Playing Chess with Putin
“What’s it like playing chess with Obama?” asks a top aid of Russian president Vladimir Putin.

Putin replies, “It’s like playing chess with a pigeon. First it knocks over all the pieces, then it shits on the board, and finally it struts around like it won.”
http://www.internationalman.com/articles/playing-chess-with-putin

Russian Lad
11-12-2015, 14:37
Friday's joke,

Playing Chess with Putin
“What’s it like playing chess with Obama?” asks a top aid of Russian president Vladimir Putin.

Putin replies, “It’s like playing chess with a pigeon. First it knocks over all the pieces, then it shits on the board, and finally it struts around like it won.”
http://www.internationalman.com/articles/playing-chess-with-putin

Tell us when to laugh, it is an old joke, just the names keep changing. You may as well begin it with - "What's it like playing chess with Putin?"


Lad, surly you are mistaken.

I trust my background clearance investigation sources.

Alan65
11-12-2015, 17:59
Friday's joke,

Playing Chess with Putin
“What’s it like playing chess with Obama?” asks a top aid of Russian president Vladimir Putin.

Putin replies, “It’s like playing chess with a pigeon. First it knocks over all the pieces, then it shits on the board, and finally it struts around like it won.”
http://www.internationalman.com/articles/playing-chess-with-putin

Fridays joke

If you have been naughty this year ....Santa will send the present with Russian Post

vossy7
11-12-2015, 18:46
Pigeons survive, chickens don't :smile:

FatAndy
11-12-2015, 19:44
Fridays joke

If you have been naughty this year ....Santa will send the present with Russian Post
It's rather old bayan, now they've improved the process...

nicklcool
11-12-2015, 20:34
Russia is battening down the hatches for a Biblical collapse in oil revenues, warning that crude prices could stay as low as $40 a barrel for another seven years.


Whether Russia really can withstand the strain for years is an open question. The economy is in deep recession. Output has contracted by 4pc over the last year. Real incomes have fallen by 9pc. The latest gambit may in reality be a negotiating ploy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12046185/russia-opec-saudi-arabia-bluff-40-oil-price.html

:fridaysign::fridaysign::fridaysign: everyone!

fenrir
11-12-2015, 22:17
First Lithuania, now Poland. Russia continues to lose more market share in Europe. And that doesn't include KSA's oil sales.

Poland gets gas by ship as it diversifies energy sources

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/poland-gets-gas-ship-diversifies-energy-sources-133707332.html

And then there is:

Russia power grip over Baltics ends with billion-euro links

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-baltics-5605dd00-9e8c-11e5-9ad2-568d814bbf3b-20151210-story.html

Russian Lad
12-12-2015, 00:16
Euro 77 today. 23 more rubles to go to meet the target. Before or after the New Year? I want a little present for the holidays... Benedikt, you still keep your life savings in rubles as you stated a year ago or you have exchanged your savings on the sly when the dollar cost 52 rubles like half a year ago by mistake? Comrades need and deserve to know... What do you think, when the dollar and the euro will finally cost 100+ rubles? I mean, how soon? Maybe the time is ripe to have yet another Black Monday? It would look cool in headlines, much better than, say, Black Tuesday or Black Wednesday.

Judge
12-12-2015, 09:59
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12046185/russia-opec-saudi-arabia-bluff-40-oil-price.html

:fridaysign::fridaysign::fridaysign: everyone!

Another 7 years, how tight do we have to tighten that belt.
Russia and the KSA fighting it out, like the article says,weakening themselves, but along the way others too.Russia helping out Iran will be a big factor in all this, these two in cahoots with each other,in Syria and in the oil business , they might as well set up their own mini OPEC,once Iran is back pumping at higher levels.

Russian Lad
12-12-2015, 10:40
Another 7 years, how tight do we have to tighten that belt.
Russia and the KSA fighting it out, like the article says,weakening themselves, but along the way others too.Russia helping out Iran will be a big factor in all this, these two in cahoots with each other,in Syria and in the oil business , they might as well set up their own mini OPEC,once Iran is back pumping at higher levels.

Another wet dream? Russia+Iran alliance? There have been so many unfulfilled wet dreams already... Russia+China alliance (with China supposedly eager to invest billions pretty much in every sector of the Russian economy), crushed, Russia+Cuba alliance (with Cuba being the forepost of the Russian military and intelligence), crushed, Russia+Turkey alliance (with the South Stream and also billions of investments), crushed, new gas pipeline to Europe to be used as an additional leverage (read - economic weapon) over the European affairs and another source of income (in the process of being crushed) and so forth.
The reality is so painful today, comrades, you better not face it and just keep dreaming. The smell of coffee is becoming unbearable for you. I understand you and even have sympathy for your crushed dreams, hopes and fantasies. But history doesn't. History looks down on all this with a cold, impartial and merciless stare, never stopping the mills of time that just keep grinding, moving ever so slowly one may think they remain still. But they keep turning and crushing. This time - your dreams and your hopes, not mine. I hear your dreams and hopes screaming in despicable pain and sheer agony.

Judge
12-12-2015, 16:11
It's not hard to workout, you have a US/Saudi vs Russia/Iran situation at the moment ,how long these relationships last is anyone's guess.Now there are plans for a new gas pipe straight to Germany from Russia, smaller EU countries are already upset about this and rightly so, cos their Russian gas dreams were crushed, the US will use its influence over these smaller countries, which will annoy the Germans, and will lead to more unpleasantness between EU countries, playing into Russia's hands..

Russian Lad
12-12-2015, 17:22
Now there are plans for a new gas pipe straight to Germany from Russia

I listed it in the "being crushed" category. I don't think the Germans are very stupid - even if they allow it (which I doubt), it will be on their terms. As to Iran, the first seriously wrong twitch and they are under sanctions again. Fine with me both ways. Sweet dreams, anyway. Oil less than 30 and dollar 100 soon - in the real world out there, don't look from the window anymore, the sunshine is becoming insufferably bright, comrade, its scorching capacity is increasing as we speak.

Judge
12-12-2015, 18:04
I listed it in the "being crushed" category. I don't think the Germans are very stupid - even if they allow it (which I doubt), it will be on their terms. As to Iran, the first seriously wrong twitch and they are under sanctions again. Fine with me both ways. Sweet dreams, anyway. Oil less than 30 and dollar 100 soon - in the real world out there, don't look from the window anymore, the sunshine is becoming insufferably bright, comrade, its scorching capacity is increasing as we speak.
The Germans already have their gas straight from Russia,they want more for their booming economy, cheap gas is needed ,same for China, cheap gas for their new silk road plans.The Germans know the Russians are reliable partners ..they could also join up with Poland and get gas from the Polish LNG line,pay more of course, but like you said, the Germans aren't stupid.
Oil could go under $30,the devalued Ruble balances things out , like I said earlier in this thread, Russia is ready, the days of the Saudis bossing the oil prices could be a thing of the past, OPEC might as well be dissolved.
Wet dreams, sweet dreams, optimistic you sound, I'm preparing for the upcoming nightmares.

Alan65
12-12-2015, 21:32
Another 7 years, how tight do we have to tighten that belt.
Russia and the KSA fighting it out, like the article says,weakening themselves, but along the way others too.Russia helping out Iran will be a big factor in all this, these two in cahoots with each other,in Syria and in the oil business , they might as well set up their own mini OPEC,once Iran is back pumping at higher levels.

Perhaps it is a rush to the bottom with oil producing states, Europe must have been Russia biggest market, now that Europe is diversifying, perhaps Europe can call the shots, I am also reading some interesting stuff about Kalingrad, Kalingrad relies on Russia for energy, now that the Baltic states are moving away from soviet infrastructure...read oil, gas and electricity and railroads....Kalingrad will become isolated.

Russian Lad
12-12-2015, 21:33
Happy and sweet dreaming, Judge.

Judge
14-12-2015, 14:09
Perhaps it is a rush to the bottom with oil producing states, Europe must have been Russia biggest market, now that Europe is diversifying, perhaps Europe can call the shots, I am also reading some interesting stuff about Kalingrad, Kalingrad relies on Russia for energy, now that the Baltic states are moving away from soviet infrastructure...read oil, gas and electricity and railroads....Kalingrad will become isolated.

Could be problematic for Kalingrad in the future, will see.

Russian Lad
14-12-2015, 14:57
Oil 37.2, dropping like a rock, has lost 2.8 points since the morning.:winking::smug::tongue::music:

Judge
14-12-2015, 15:03
Oil 37.2, dropping like a rock, has lost 2.8 points since the morning.:winking::smug::tongue::music:

More good news for you, sweet dreams :smoking:

Oil prices on Monday plunged to their lowest level since 2009 as OPEC continues high volume production and Iran plans to boost exports. Brent crude was down below $37 a barrel while the US benchmark WTI fell below $35 per barrel.

Deputy Finance Minister Maxim Oreshkin said the country is drawing up plans based on the price fluctuating between $40 and $60 until at least 2022.

2022 ,is a good forecast. .

Nobbynumbnuts
14-12-2015, 15:27
[QUOTE=Judge;1437474]....Deputy Finance Minister Maxim Oreshkin said the country is drawing up plans based on the price fluctuating between $40 and $60 until at least 2022....2022 ,is a good forecast......./QUOTE]

Wonder what those plans will be. Probably more budget cuts which will effect ordinary Russians...

Russian Lad
14-12-2015, 15:38
2022 ,is a good forecast.

Only till 2022 is not enough, I expect them to develop solid plans at least till 2666 - after all, those are the same people who told me on television a year and a half ago that oil would not go below 80 because it would mean immediate collapse of the Saudi Arabia and that the dollar would not cost over 35 and buying dollars for 33 rubles per dollar was, according to them, a surefire way to lose a lot of savings. Of course I fully believe in their skills now as well, after all, I am not an idiot and can clearly see they have a viable plan till 2022... :smug: Judge, wonder if you are just being extra cynical or you really believe in what you are saying. That's mind-boggling. I mean, ok, most Russians clearly are not the brightest chaps on the block, but even I doubt they are so dense as you seem to suggest, in their majority.

Judge
14-12-2015, 15:41
....Deputy Finance Minister Maxim Oreshkin said the country is drawing up plans based on the price fluctuating between $40 and $60 until at least 2022....2022 ,is a good forecast......./QUOTE]

Wonder what those plans will be. Probably more budget cuts which will effect ordinary Russians...

Plans to tax the oil companies more,maybe. ..

Judge
14-12-2015, 15:46
Only till 2022 is not enough, I expect them to develop solid plans at least till 2666 - after all, those are the same people who told me on television a year and a half ago that oil would not go below 80 because it would mean immediate collapse of the Saudi Arabia and that the dollar would not cost over 35 and buying dollars for 33 rubles per dollar was, according to them, a surefire way to lose a lot of savings. Of course I fully believe in their skills now as well, after all, I am not an idiot and can clearly see they have a viable plan till 2022... :smug: Judge, wonder if you are just being extra cynical or you really believe in what you are saying. That's mind-boggling. I mean, ok, most Russians are not the brightest chaps on the block, but even I doubt they are so dense as you suggest.


When will you learn, don't believe all what they tell you on TV.
Now I'm suggesting something I never said, Ok,keep up the boggling. .look at the history of oil prices, dreaming of $100 is foolish,even oil at $80 is high, this was when the world economy was booming, now it's slow down.

Russian Lad
14-12-2015, 15:50
When will you learn, don't believe all what they tell you on TV.

The problem I am having is not it was told on tv, it is by whom it was told. It included high-ranking officials and even the president. Am I hearing you right, you suggest I shouldn't trust my president?:) Wow. Let me refresh your memory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbN34LgKneM

Nobbynumbnuts
14-12-2015, 15:54
Plans to tax the oil companies more,maybe. ..

..with long term shrinking revenues and the dire need for investment? How about reducing the military budget which has increased by 15% despite budget cuts over recent years?? Shameful!

Judge
14-12-2015, 16:00
..with long term shrinking revenues and the dire need for investment? How about reducing the military budget which has increased by 15% despite budget cuts over recent years?? Shameful!

Don't forget the Russian military industry also provides lots of jobs, if they are taking the money away from education and healthcare then I agree, it's not good. ..

Judge
14-12-2015, 16:06
The problem I am having is not it was told on tv, it is by whom it was told. It included high-ranking officials and even the president. Am I hearing you right, you suggest I shouldn't trust my president?:) Wow. Let me refresh your memory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbN34LgKneM

Same goes for politicians,don't take everything they say as the gospel truth :smile:

Nobbynumbnuts
14-12-2015, 16:07
Don't forget the Russian military also provides lots of jobs, if they are taking the money away from education and healthcare then I agree, it's not good. ..

The Russian government is not pumping more money into the military to provide jobs, it's to fund their military ambitions. And at a time when it's 'competitors' are reducing theirs.
Education and especially health care don't need more funding?? What about all other areas that need more money? Increasing military spending in a time of austerity is something you'd expect from North Korea!

Judge
14-12-2015, 16:16
The Russian government is not pumping more money into the military to provide jobs, it's to fund their military ambitions. And at a time when it's 'competitors' are reducing theirs.
Education and especially health care don't need more funding?? What about all other areas that need more money? Increasing military spending in a time of austerity is something you'd expect from North Korea!

Ambitions to strengthen its borders and playing its roll to fight terrorism ,all this provides more work and demand for Russian military hardware to who wants to buy it. The plan to bolster Russia's military was planned a few years ago,it was a shambles after the USSR collapsed
Russia is like North Korea and RL says like Nigeria, you guys are funny.:smile:
Russia even made cuts to its military budget this year...

Russian Lad
14-12-2015, 16:27
Nobby, who cares what sort of lame excuses and outlandish explanations they come up with at this point? Let's just enjoy the show. Oil has fallen below 37, the ruble is tumbling down. How soon this and this new Platon tax are going to hit the shelves and the pockets of ordinary Russian consumers? I bet we will not need to wait for long... Let's see how they like it.

nicklcool
14-12-2015, 17:16
Only till 2022 is not enough, I expect them to develop solid plans at least till 2666 . I mean, ok, most Russians clearly are not the brightest chaps on the block, but even I doubt they are so dense as you seem to suggest, in their majority.


One must agree with you, or he's stupid? Is this the best way to win people over to your (the "opposition") side?

Russian Lad
14-12-2015, 17:18
One must agree with you, or he's stupid? Is this the best way to win people over to your (the "opposition") side?

I am not trying to "win anyone over" - they all should decide for themselves, if my thoughts help them, they are welcome, if not, they are welcome as well. It is a wild world out there...

nicklcool
14-12-2015, 17:48
I am not trying to "win anyone over" - they all should decide for themselves, if my thoughts help them, they are welcome, if not, they are welcome as well. It is a wild world out there...

Agreed, they should decide for themselves, but your thought that people are idiots if they disagree won't be helpful to very many. My friend lost his job, he can blame it on the economic situation in Russia, or go out and find another job. (there's thst saying "a recession is when your neighbor loses his job; a depression is when you lose your job). Another acquaintance, a good friend of my wife, lost his job and is still looking. I wish him all the best but I mentioned to my wife how I see these ads all the time on the metro for drivers, they must be desparate to hire. She said are you kidding, that's not his speciality. Another distant in-law, his company offered him 3/4 the pay for the same work, he declined. So if you're unemployed in the big cities, how is that possible?

In the USSA they did studies about how a quantifiable portion of those receiving unemployment would be back at work if the unemployment benefits hadn't been extended...in Russia there are no unemployment benefits (that I know of), so it's....leftover free USSR apartments?....that are keeping people unemployed longer than usual.

For those interested, there's a great book out there called the $100 Start Up. It's got some amazing stories about incredible business ideas people concocted with very little start up money when their backs were against the wall (unexpected layoffs, etc.). When the winds of change blow, some people build walls, others build windmills...

Nobbynumbnuts
14-12-2015, 18:47
Ambitions to strengthen its borders and playing its roll to fight terrorism ,all this provides more work and demand for Russian military hardware to who wants to buy it. The plan to bolster Russia's military was planned a few years ago,it was a shambles after the USSR collapsed
Russia is like North Korea and RL says like Nigeria, you guys are funny.:smile:
Russia even made cuts to its military budget this year...


Russia's military spending has increased, not decreased

"Going into this year, the State Duma budgeted around 3.3 trillion rubles ($52 billion) for defense. This figure was later curtailed by 5 percent, resulting in an actual 2015 military budget of just over 3.1 trillion rubles — despite the cut, a 26 percent increase in spending over 2014.................................Russia's defense spending is set to increase by a modest 0.8 percent next year...........In 2016, the increase will be smaller. According to a draft of the 2016 federal budget, “the 2016 budget allocation for national defense is planned at 3.145 trillion rubles ($50 billion),” or about 4 percent of Russia's projected gross domestic product...............................................The TASS report did not specify how much of the proposed military budget would be dedicated to buying new military equipment, as mandated by Putin's 2020 rearmament and modernization program, but spending on new equipment is usually two-thirds of the budget.........news agency TASS reported Saturday."

The USSR collapsed a quarter of a century ago
The rest of Russian infrastructure and welfare programs needs modernization, especially health. This would also create jobs and benefit ordinary Russians
Russia is not spending all the extra funds on fighting terrorism or securing borders. 2/3rds of the budget goes on new equipment as TASS says themselves.

Russian Lad
14-12-2015, 19:01
Agreed, they should decide for themselves, but your thought that people are idiots if they disagree won't be helpful to very many. My friend lost his job, he can blame it on the economic situation in Russia, or go out and find another job. (there's thst saying "a recession is when your neighbor loses his job; a depression is when you lose your job). Another acquaintance, a good friend of my wife, lost his job and is still looking.


If your friends who lost their jobs support the current policies here, I have no sympathy for them - they got what they truly deserved and even asked for. Sorry, but like I said, life is not a path strewn with roses, there is a price to pay for everything, and the price for having no brains of one's own is probably the highest, it has always been.
If they don't support the current policies (which I doubt), then they fell innocent victims to the brainless majority, - it happens sometimes too. Then they have my sympathy and best wishes to overcome the current difficulties. However, most of the Russians who share my views saw where it was all going two years ago, just like me, and had time to prepare a comfortable hard currencies cushion to lay back on at the time when the sh't hits the fan (i.e. right now). Most are even profiting from the whole mess, given the fact that we bought hard currency for 30 rubles and can sell it now for 70 (and I believe it will be 100 soon). I remember I was laughed at here two years ago, when I predicted exactly what is happening now, where are all those smart-arsed humorists now? Counting their last rubles perhaps. Let me be. The time of reckoning has arrived for them. The time to pay.


leftover free USSR apartments

We have been through this already, these apartments can be inherited, just like real estate in the West, so no difference here nowadays, unless you have banned all real estate inheritance laws in the West. Let's try to keep concentrated in order not to go through the same stuff in circles?


For those interested, there's a great book out there called the $100 Start Up. It's got some amazing stories about incredible business ideas people concocted with very little start up money when their backs were against the wall (unexpected layoffs, etc.). When the winds of change blow, some people build walls, others build windmills...

So, that's what you advise to your Russian friends who are jobless now? Do they feel encouraged by this? I would at least offer my potato peels soup or my rotten chicken wings, at least to those who share my views (sorry, have no food for the kvas patriots, they can drink their kvas from their tvsets)...

nicklcool
14-12-2015, 19:51
Some input from the Financial Times (https://next.ft.com/content/01c7f874-a259-11e5-bc70-7ff6d4fd203a) on Oil: How Low Can it Go?

Why are so many news outlets writing about the big players- OPEC, Saudia Arabia, Russia- purposely increasing production to drown out other market players, while members of this forum are convinced Russia is being reactionary and operating from a point of weakness?

FatAndy
14-12-2015, 20:01
:emote_popcorn:

Russian Lad
14-12-2015, 20:49
while members of this forum are convinced Russia is being reactionary and operating from a point of weakness?

Russia is trying to increase the oil output because it is one of its main sources of income - lower oil price - less USD received - more oil needs to be pumped. 2+2=4. Live and learn.:)

nicklcool
14-12-2015, 21:30
Russia is trying to increase the oil output because it is one of its main sources of income - lower oil price - less USD received - more oil needs to be pumped. 2+2=4. Live and learn.:)

Sure you don't have your chickens and eggs mixed up, RL? The theory is interesting but you're the first I've seen to propose it.

Judge
14-12-2015, 22:11
Russia's military spending has increased, not decreased

"Going into this year, the State Duma budgeted around 3.3 trillion rubles ($52 billion) for defense. This figure was later curtailed by 5 percent, resulting in an actual 2015 military budget of just over 3.1 trillion rubles — despite the cut, a 26 percent increase in spending over 2014.................................Russia's defense spending is set to increase by a modest 0.8 percent next year...........In 2016, the increase will be smaller. According to a draft of the 2016 federal budget, “the 2016 budget allocation for national defense is planned at 3.145 trillion rubles ($50 billion),” or about 4 percent of Russia's projected gross domestic product...............................................The TASS report did not specify how much of the proposed military budget would be dedicated to buying new military equipment, as mandated by Putin's 2020 rearmament and modernization program, but spending on new equipment is usually two-thirds of the budget.........news agency TASS reported Saturday."

The USSR collapsed a quarter of a century ago
The rest of Russian infrastructure and welfare programs needs modernization, especially health. This would also create jobs and benefit ordinary Russians
Russia is not spending all the extra funds on fighting terrorism or securing borders. 2/3rds of the budget goes on new equipment as TASS says themselves.

Nobbs, you highlighted the wrong words,for this year the budget has been cut.from 3.3 trillion to 3.1.This is what we are discussing, not last year, a lot has happened in a year,the reason for cuts to this year's budget.
Back in 2010 Putin announced a 20 trillion ruble modernisation program of the military ,he's even said there will be delays because of cuts.Next year a modest 0.8 increase, that's not much really, we might even see a decrease, depends what happens.

Carl
14-12-2015, 22:24
https://www.facebook.com/edynaukraine/videos/987862534585489/

This guy seems to have a pretty good understanding of the situation...

Nobbynumbnuts
14-12-2015, 22:31
Nobbs, you highlighted the wrong words,for this year the budget has been cut.from 3.3 trillion to 3.1.This is what we are discussing, not last year, a lot has happened in a year,the reason for cuts to this year's budget.
Back in 2010 Putin announced a 20 trillion ruble modernisation program of the military ,he's even said there will be delays because of cuts.Next year a modest 0.8 increase, that's much really, we might even see a decrease, depends what happens.

..the budget was (and still is after the cut) an increase on total spending in 2014. To paraphrase: More money was spent on military spending in 2015 than was spent in 2014. That's an increase in any language!

Judge, it absolutely astounds me how someone like you with your political instincts can support this government. Increasing military spending (year on year) when everything else is being cut and ordinary Russians are bearing the brunt. It's despicable...

Judge
14-12-2015, 23:02
..the budget was (and still is after the cut) an increase on total spending in 2014. To paraphrase: More money was spent on military spending in 2015 than was spent in 2014. That's an increase in any language!

Judge, it absolutely astounds me how someone like you with your political instincts can support this government. Increasing military spending (year on year) when everything else is being cut and ordinary Russians are bearing the brunt. It's despicable...

Last year was last year, we are discussing this year's budget which was cut from what was planned. Next year an increase of 0.8% ,Russia is fighting a war in Syria, this increase is very modest, you would expect them to make an excuse for spending more,but they don't.
If you have any links to where everything else is being cut, post them, honestly I haven't read about it yet.

Ok, I found this article,
http://tass.ru/en/economy/841517

The lawmakers did not increase the expenditure in the 2016 budget, but increased social spending and funding of some sectors of the economy, including agriculture, machine-building, aircraft building and shipbuilding, power engineering, construction and restoration of roads, by means of redistribution of budgetary means.
Doesn't sound like "everything is being cut" ...

Nobbynumbnuts
14-12-2015, 23:37
Last year was last year, we are discussing this year's budget which was cut from what was planned. Next year an increase of 0.8% ,Russia is fighting a war in Syria, this increase is very modest, you would expect them to make an excuse for spending more,but they don't.
If you have any links to where everything else is being cut, post them, honestly I haven't read about it yet.

Ok, I found this article,
http://tass.ru/en/economy/841517

Doesn't sound like "everything is being cut" ...


..and i found this article
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/usual-suspects-gobble-up-russias-budget-pie/539795.html

The final breakdown of the budget reflects the real balance of power in the Russian establishment as well as the nature of the relationship between the authorities and the people.

The most powerful interest groups in Russia remain senior officials and the siloviki — especially the army and secret police. They will suffer the least from budget cuts in 2016.

Their needs will be met at the expense of weaker interest groups — namely, the general public, state employees, pensioners, social welfare programs, raw materials producers and regional and municipal budgets. These are the groups that the crisis will hit hardest.

Inflation is estimated at 12 percent to 13 percent for 2015 while incomes will fall by 10 percent on average. However, the authorities refuse to peg the salaries of state employees to inflation — including for siloviki and state officials — this year or in 2016.

Indexation for unemployed pensioners stands at just 4 percent while those with jobs receive no increase whatsoever.

That means the government will provide almost no compensation to the country's 42.7 million pensioners to offset the effects of inflation — which could reach a total of 20 percent this year and next.

The government plans to dig deeper into citizens' pockets by slashing 40 percent of federal spending on housing and utilities, even while raising the payments required for capital repairs to apartment buildings.

Leaders also plan to cut federal spending on health and education by an average of 10 percent while keeping military spending — which has increased rapidly in recent years — practically untouched, with reductions of only 1.8 percent.

The authorities continue their usual cutbacks to regional and municipal budgets, thereby exacerbating budgetary, social and infrastructure problems across the country.

Future pensioners are faring no better. For three consecutive years the authorities have dipped into pension savings in order to finance current expenditures and plan to withdraw or "freeze" a staggering 350 billion rubles ($5.7 billion) of those funds in 2016.


In the midst of a serious crisis, rulers have made the political choice to continue indulging the appetites of the military-industrial complex, security services, state-owned banks and state corporations.

The government will protect their interests at the expense of living standards, investments in human capital, social welfare, the well-being of regions and municipalities and the viability of Russian businesses.

That decision will, in turn, make this crisis even deeper and more protracted.

Russian Lad
15-12-2015, 00:52
Sure you don't have your chickens and eggs mixed up, RL? The theory is interesting but you're the first I've seen to propose it.

50% of the Russian economy - oil and gas revenues. So, it doesn't take a genius to realize you need to sell more oil (or to try doing so at least) if the oil price has dropped steeply. They even balance the Russian budget on the basis of the oil price. So, what exactly wrong do you find in what I said? By the way, they are about to begin cutting down the current budget for the next year even further - the existing one is balanced with the assumption that the annual oil price will be 50, which doesn't seem like a likely scenario anymore. It means even lower pensions, decreased social programs and what not. Welcome to the real world, dear kvas patriots.
Since you don't seem to understand the basics, are you sure you need to continue posting?:) My advise would be to do some self-education first.

Judge
15-12-2015, 01:53
Thanks for posting that Nobbs, it proves my point,cuts were made this year and next year according to your article. ..we started talking first about the Military budget, don't forget :winking:

military spending — which has increased rapidly in recent years — practically untouched, with reductions of only 1.8 percent.

And what you posted is just a plan,a maybe.

Nobbynumbnuts
15-12-2015, 02:14
Thanks for posting that Nobbs, it proves my point,cuts were made this year and next year according to your article. ..we started talking first about the Military budget, don't forget :winking:


And what you posted is just a plan,a maybe.

Don't play with words, you sound like a banker! . Military spending is up this year on last. Even if they have reduced it, it's still up, year on year.
You're trying to defend the indefensible.

And where is that post? I can't see it.

Judge
15-12-2015, 02:20
Don't play with words, you sound like a banker! . Military spending is up this year on last. Even if they have reduced it, it's still up, year on year.
You're trying to defend the indefensible.

And where is that post? I can't see it.

Read what you posted, all is there...I'm just quoting your post,

Nobbynumbnuts
15-12-2015, 02:53
.......despite the cut, a 26 percent increase in spending over 2014...........

Yup, it's in my post! :winking:

Latest figures (2014) show only Saudi Arabia and Israel spent more on the military as % of GDP in the world. Disgusting for a country with so many social problems

Judge
15-12-2015, 07:11
Now you're going back to the other article you posted, with the modest 0.8% rise in spending, which we discussed already, #2339

And your last post #2344 is for 2014, for 2016, because of the exchange rate, it will be 4% of GDP.

Nobbynumbnuts
15-12-2015, 10:20
Now you're going back to the other article you posted, with the modest 0.8% rise in spending, which we discussed already, #2339

And your last post #2344 is for 2014, for 2016, because of the exchange rate, it will be 4% of GDP.

Russia still spending billions of $ (%) more on weapons than just about anybody else and at a time when ordinary Russians are suffering..

TolkoRaz
15-12-2015, 10:36
Russia still spending billions of $ (%) more on weapons than just about anybody else and at a time when ordinary Russians are suffering..

Not correct! Per GDP may be, but not in actual terms! The RF spends much less than the US of A, but the RF's GDP is much less than the US of A's.

Nobbynumbnuts
15-12-2015, 10:49
Not correct! Per GDP may be, but not in actual terms! The RF spends much less than the US of A, but the RF's GDP is much less than the US of A's.

I made that clear.
But if Russia is spending more as a % of GDP than just about anyone else, then it's spending billions more $ than it should.
And seeing as you and Judge seem to conveniently forget about the impact of all this on ordinary Russians, good job i'm here to speak up for them! :winking:

Russian Lad
15-12-2015, 14:00
You guys also don't forget that a certain percentage of the Russian budget is classified and no one really knows how this money is spent, but I doubt it goes to secret education or medical care projects. I don't remember the exact %, can anyone find it?

TolkoRaz
15-12-2015, 15:23
You guys also don't forget that a certain percentage of the Russian budget is classified and no one really knows how this money is spent, but I doubt it goes to secret education or medical care projects. I don't remember the exact %, can anyone find it?

Absoutely no different to the US of A budget; they have also have secret allocations!

nicklcool
15-12-2015, 18:06
50% of the Russian economy - oil and gas revenues. So, it doesn't take a genius to realize you need to sell more oil (or to try doing so at least) if the oil price has dropped steeply. They even balance the Russian budget on the basis of the oil price. So, what exactly wrong do you find in what I said? By the way, they are about to begin cutting down the current budget for the next year even further - the existing one is balanced with the assumption that the annual oil price will be 50, which doesn't seem like a likely scenario anymore. It means even lower pensions, decreased social programs and what not. Welcome to the real world, dear kvas patriots.
Since you don't seem to understand the basics, are you sure you need to continue posting?:) My advise would be to do some self-education first.

RL, you are amazing, I hope you get to move to the USA and start hanging out with all our progressives, esp. in the universities, you all will have a grand ol time insulting others' intelligence while conflating your own.

There's a very cool song by Say Anything (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=82CGzI5d_so) that I think covers the type of people with whom you would love to hang out. In fact this seems to be your MO- lash out at others and call them unintelligent, when you feel defensive because you think your own intelligence has been attacked.

You cannot analyze your own thoughts? You said that RF is pumping more oil because it needs more dollars and the oil is cheaper, yet their very action of pumping more oil is what's contributing to the price decline. How is that not a fundamental mix up of which came first the chicken or the egg logic on your part?

nicklcool
15-12-2015, 18:08
Russia still spending billions of $ (%) more on weapons than just about anybody else and at a time when ordinary Russians are suffering..

Is Russia a socialist country? If not, great job, protecting the country is one of the government's most important roles; keep up the military spending!

FatAndy
15-12-2015, 18:26
You guys also don't forget that a certain percentage of the Russian budget is classified and no one really knows how this money is spent, but I doubt it goes to secret education or medical care projects. I don't remember the exact %, can anyone find it?
What's the purpose of your interest, comrade? :suspect:


And seeing as you and Judge seem to conveniently forget about the impact of all this on ordinary Russians, good job i'm here to speak up for them! :winking:
I'm very sorry, Nobby, but the position of "ardent tribune" is already occupied by RL.

Russian Lad
15-12-2015, 19:01
You cannot analyze your own thoughts? You said that RF is pumping more oil because it needs more dollars and the oil is cheaper, yet their very action of pumping more oil is what's contributing to the price decline. How is that not a fundamental mix up of which came first the chicken or the egg logic on your part?

If Russia was the only country pumping oil, or, say, one out of three-four, then your imaginary "mix up" would be valid. But in reality there are many countries, so it is obvious that Russia is gaining more by trying to pump more. Also, because there are many players, if Russia pumped less it would simply lose its market share to other players. Again, 2+2=4. How about joining high school again? I mean, seriously. :party: Your weird theory that Russia is trying to sell more oil out of strength is even not spread on Rossiya24, so hopelessly stupid and desperate it is.

Uncle Wally
15-12-2015, 21:56
Russia still spending billions of $ (%) more on weapons than just about anybody else and at a time when ordinary Russians are suffering..



Take a look at your own country buddy. There are a lot of people hurting from budget cuts.

Uncle Wally
15-12-2015, 21:58
If Russia was the only country pumping oil, or, say, one out of three-four, then your imaginary "mix up" would be valid. But in reality there are many countries, so it is obvious that Russia is gaining more by trying to pump more. Also, because there are many players, if Russia pumped less it would simply lose its market share to other players. Again, 2+2=4. How about joining high school again? I mean, seriously. :party: Your weird theory that Russia is trying to sell more oil out of strength is even not spread on Rossiya24, so hopelessly stupid and desperate it is.



Russia is a lot stronger Saudi Arabia.

Judge
16-12-2015, 00:25
Take a look at your own country buddy. There are a lot of people hurting from budget cuts.

Hurting? It's much worse than that, people are killing themselves cos of the cuts,
Death has become a part of Britain’s benefits system

http://gu.com/p/4bq7j?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages


Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show

http://gu.com/p/4bpzz?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages
Excuse the off topic post..

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 00:57
Hurting? It's much worse than that, people are killing themselves cos of the cuts,
Death has become a part of Britain’s benefits system

http://gu.com/p/4bq7j?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages

Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show

http://gu.com/p/4bpzz?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages
Excuse the off topic post..

..Britain spends a lot less on the military (monetary terms & % GDP) than does Russia. A lot less

Keep trying to justify Russia's abnormally high military expenditure when ordinary Russians are suffering..:winking:

Judge
16-12-2015, 01:00
..Britain spends a lot less on the military (monetary terms & % GDP) than does Russia. A lot less

Keep trying to justify Russia's abnormally high military expenditure when ordinary Russians are suffering..:winking:

No need to justify anything, I proved you wrong already about the budget cuts :smoking:
Yes, Russians are suffering, UK citizens are killing themselves cos of the austerity cuts.Cameron is also going to bolster military spending ,spend more on military and poor people are killing themselves daily in the UK....Don't you also find that disgusting and shameful?

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 01:10
No need to justify anything, I proved you wrong already about the budget cuts :smoking:
Yes, Russians are suffering, UK citizens are killing themselves cos of the austerity cuts .

Judge, what did Putin have for breakfast this morning? We all want to know! :smug:

Judge
16-12-2015, 01:14
Judge, what did Putin have for breakfast this morning? We all want to know! :smug:

His usual, bacon and eggs,washed down with a litre of kvas, you wanna know what he had for lunch too? :yawn:

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 02:33
His usual, bacon and eggs,washed down with a litre of kvas, you wanna know what he had for lunch too? :yawn:

All brought to him in bed by yourself, no doubt! :winking:

Judge
16-12-2015, 08:52
All brought to him in bed by yourself, no doubt! :winking:

Sure Nobbs, best way to try and deflect away from what we are discussing here. ..next..

nicklcool
16-12-2015, 10:44
Sure Nobbs, best way to try and deflect away from what we are discussing here. ..next..

We're discussing some wayward Western countries who have forgotten their utmost responsibilty to society and are investing in welfare instead of defense weapons :) Thankfully Putin knows his government's primary purpose and has upped military spending as a percentage of GDP! This topic BTW was brought up by me a year ago; Nobby et al this is nothing new- it's just more pertinent today given ISIS's growing strength and influence.

fenrir
16-12-2015, 13:04
An interesting article.

Gazprom Rapidly Losing Grip On European Markets

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gazprom-rapidly-losing-grip-european-224904757.html

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 13:13
.......has upped military spending as a percentage of GDP!......

Thanks! He's increased it year on year, while social welfare has been cut at a time when it's desperately needed :winking:

Judge
16-12-2015, 13:15
We're discussing some wayward Western countries who have forgotten their utmost responsibilty to society and are investing in welfare instead of defense weapons :) Thankfully Putin knows his government's primary purpose and has upped military spending as a percentage of GDP! This topic BTW was brought up by me a year ago; Nobby et al this is nothing new- it's just more pertinent today given ISIS's growing strength and influence.

Many aren't even spending much at all, all austerity cuts one after another. ...it's good news for German companies ,they are picking up airports on the cheap in Greece...the last stages of Capitalism, eating itself.:book:
In the other thread, you were Cameron, and asked is this good, read the links I posted about the benefit cuts in the UK.

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 13:20
Many aren't even spending much at all, all austerity cuts one after another......

..yes, including military budgets, not increasing them every year! :winking:

Judge
16-12-2015, 13:26
..yes, including military budgets, not increasing them every year! :winking:

Wrong again,
Eastern Europe is boosting military budgets,

http://gu.com/p/47c4a?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/24/world/europe/david-cameron-says-he-will-increase-britains-military-spending.html
The US is demanding it, the Muppets follow..:cool:
I see, no comment on UK citizens killing themselves cos of the government you voted in cutting benefits,silence is golden:yawn2:

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 13:57
Wrong again,
Eastern Europe is boosting military budgets,

http://gu.com/p/47c4a?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/24/world/europe/david-cameron-says-he-will-increase-britains-military-spending.html
The US is demanding it, the Muppets follow..:cool:.........

Come back when it's a fact!

Russia has the 15th highest suicide rate in the world. Well above UK
http://list25.com/25-countries-with-the-highest-suicide-rates-in-the-world/5/

Russia has the 122nd worse life expectancy in the world......behind Bangladesh!! :laughing: (Britain comes in at 19)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Increased welfare spending in Russia is desperately needed

Judge, Putin wants his lunch...................quick! :laughing:

Judge
16-12-2015, 14:05
Come back when it's a fact!

Russia has the 15th highest suicide rate in the world. Well above UK
http://list25.com/25-countries-with-the-highest-suicide-rates-in-the-world/5/

Russia has the 122nd worse life expectancy in the world......behind Bangladesh!! :laughing: (Britain comes in at 19)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Increased welfare spending in Russia is desperately needed

Judge, Putin wants his lunch...................quick! :laughing:

A Cameron apologist,way to go..nothing again on UK cuts ,where innocent people are killing themselves, keep up the deflecting. ..you're the one who talks about whataboutism :laughing:

The hypocrisy is strong with this one..:cool:

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 14:15
A Cameron apologist,way to go..nothing again on UK cuts ,where innocent people are killing themselves, keep up the deflecting. ..

Russia behind Bangladesh in life expectancy and Putin cuts welfare spending but increases military spending! Shameful...

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 14:25
Wrong again,
Eastern Europe is boosting military budgets,...........

Whataboutism...:winking:

Judge
16-12-2015, 14:26
Russia behind Bangladesh in life expectancy and Putin cuts welfare spending but increases military spending! Shameful...

I'll say it again, your favourite word, whataboutism. ..
UK are about to spend more on their military and cut more benefits, it's a good job Osborne cancelled cutting tax credits, there would have been a revolt...
You don't find it shameful the government you voted in are doing the same as the Kremlin? :dont-tell-anyone:

Judge
16-12-2015, 14:34
Whataboutism...:winking:

I'm just replying to a post what said, western countries, plural, I just posted link to support what was said.

I said it earlier that it's not good if Russia cuts education and healthcare budget to pump more into the military, the same goes for any country. I don't think there is any evidence of Russia doing this,

nicklcool
16-12-2015, 14:44
I'll say it again, cheers to Russia for boosting its military spending, moving on an upward trajectory as a proportion of GDP while the USA declines, incredible. AndNobby when you're done servicing the Russophobes, let us know which countries you know of that focus spending on "social welfare" instead of military might, yet also project power on the international political stage.

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 14:53
I'm just replying to a post what said, western countries, plural, I just posted link to support what was said.

I said it earlier that it's not good if Russia cuts education and healthcare budget to pump more into the military, the same goes for any country. I don't think there is any evidence of Russia doing this,

If the budget is cut in areas like welfare and increased for the military then logically it must be taken from welfare (among others where it has been cut). There is only so much money (budget) to go around.

My point here is that there are many serious welfare issues in Russia. A general Statistic like, Russia has a worse life expectancy rate than Bangladesh is truly shocking....

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 14:54
......AndNobby when you're done servicing the Russophobes, let us know which countries you know of that focus spending on "social welfare" instead of military might, yet also project power on the international political stage.

Britain for one..

Judge
16-12-2015, 14:59
Britain for one..

He said,

also project power on the international political stage.

Nobbynumbnuts
16-12-2015, 15:06
He said,

Britain is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. One of only five, others being: China, France, Russia and the United States. Don't get much more powerful than that on the military/political stage
Britain is an EU member and shares military capabilities with other members, like France for example. One reason Britain is able to keep military spending in check.

Uncle Wally
16-12-2015, 21:41
Britain is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. One of only five, others being: China, France, Russia and the United States. Don't get much more powerful than that on the military/political stage
Britain is an EU member and shares military capabilities with other members, like France for example. One reason Britain is able to keep military spending in check.



Yeah Mr Britain standing behind America and projecting.

AstarD
17-12-2015, 11:35
Meanwhile oil is nearing 35 dollars per barrel.

Uncle Wally
17-12-2015, 14:42
Meanwhile oil is nearing 35 dollars per barrel.



Oh what will those poor American f**kers do? Sorry I mean frackers.

AstarD
17-12-2015, 15:02
Look for other work, probably.

TolkoRaz
17-12-2015, 15:12
I bet they are very Fracked off! :D

Judge
17-12-2015, 16:08
Yeah Mr Britain standing behind America and projecting.

The UK and France weren't even capable of implementing a no-fly-zone over Libya,they needed America's help.

AstarD
17-12-2015, 17:38
29560

Nobbynumbnuts
17-12-2015, 17:45
29560

..and their lifespan will be less than that of a Bangladeshi! :winking:

nicklcool
17-12-2015, 18:19
Britain is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. One of only five, others being: China, France, Russia and the United States. Don't get much more powerful than that on the military/political stage
Britain is an EU member and shares military capabilities with other members, like France for example. One reason Britain is able to keep military spending in check.

I'm sorry nobby, I didn't know the UN got anything done. Lots of CO2 emissions, bit the UN's power is neither projected nor respected internationally :D.

FatAndy
17-12-2015, 19:39
The UK and France weren't even capable of implementing a no-fly-zone over Libya,they needed America's help.
It is called political and military impotencia. ;)


29560
Sweat dreams of so called reputable independent Western media? :)
Zero points, Astarochka, try again harder ;) Or ask RL to help.

Nobbynumbnuts
17-12-2015, 20:31
I'm sorry nobby, I didn't know the UN got anything done. Lots of CO2 emissions, bit the UN's power is neither projected nor respected internationally :D.

..in your humble opinion, of course! :winking:

Russian Lad
18-12-2015, 20:22
Sweat dreams of so called reputable independent Western media?

Is it sweet dreams only? At this stage it is the reality already, for many millions of impoverished Russians. I officially welcome you to the Era of Empty Fridges (EEF), comrades. The inevitable has happened.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM-IEI-b1zw

Uncle Wally
18-12-2015, 23:03
Is it sweet dreams only? At this stage it is the reality already, for many millions of impoverished Russians. I officially welcome you to the Era of Empty Fridges (EEF), comrades. The inevitable has happened.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM-IEI-b1zw



Dream on! They will just start selling smaller fridge's.

Russian Lad
18-12-2015, 23:13
Dream on! They will just start selling smaller fridge's.

Brilliant, comrades, Wally has found a solution! And inside these smaller fridges, maybe let's have pictures and replicas of food as a standard option? That's beside a huge sign Обама дурак, of course.

Uncle Wally
18-12-2015, 23:21
Brilliant, comrades, Wally has found a solution! And inside these smaller fridges, maybe let's have pictures and replicas of food as a standard option? That's beside a huge sign Обама дурак, of course.


Do you ever go food shopping or do you let your poor over worked, under paid mother do it for you? WW3 will start long before Russians start to starve.

Uncle Wally
18-12-2015, 23:24
The UK and France weren't even capable of implementing a no-fly-zone over Libya,they needed America's help.


I'm surprised they can even open their own beer/wine bottles on their own.

Russian Lad
18-12-2015, 23:30
Do you ever go food shopping or do you let your poor over worked, under paid mother do it for you? WW3 will start long before Russians start to starve.

Yes, I buy food every day - today, it has been very nice, I received 7500 rubles for 100 euros and was laughing all the way from the bank to a groceries store. But I doubt many Russians are paid in euros and/or had brains to buy euros when the rate was around 40 rubles. You predicted the euro and dollar collapse this autumn, where is it? I assume most of your Russian friends trusted you and your predictions and are now probably hating you, clutching their devalued rubles in their trembling hands, crying bitterly and muttering: "Oh, Wally, why did Wally do this to me?! I was such a fool to listen to him! If I only listened to this chap Russian Lad a year and a half ago I could have had 100% more rubles now! Or even 120% more! Soon it may be 200%! I better run and buy dollars right now!". Only the ruble is collapsing. The British pound costs over 100 rubles already.

Uncle Wally
19-12-2015, 00:11
Yes, I buy food every day - today, it has been very nice, I received 7500 rubles for 100 euros and was laughing all the way from the bank to a groceries store. But I doubt many Russians are paid in euros and/or had brains to buy euros when the rate was around 40 rubles. You predicted the euro and dollar collapse this autumn, where is it? I assume most of your Russian friends trusted you and your predictions and are now probably hating you, clutching their devalued rubles in their trembling hands, crying bitterly and muttering: "Oh, Wally, why did Wally do this to me?! I was such a fool to listen to him! If I only listened to this chap Russian Lad a year and a half ago I could have had 100% more rubles now! Or even 120% more! Soon it may be 200%! I better run and buy dollars right now!". Only the ruble is collapsing. The British pound costs over 100 rubles already.



You really have sick dreams of other people's failures and misery. You should really check that because in my life I found that karma works in strange ways.

Russian Lad
19-12-2015, 00:19
You really have sick dreams of other people's failures and misery. You should really check that because in my life I found that karma works in strange ways.

Well, Wally, how is karma going to help you since you made your Russian friends more poor (if they trusted you, of course, because if they didn't trust your predictions they can hardly be called your friends)? If they listened to me, they would be much better off. So, in this instance, who is bringing bad karma, me or you? Let's face the music. I wish your friends well, and I would have proven it by this time with my correct predictions - I would make your friends 100% more rich, Wally. :balloon:

Nobbynumbnuts
19-12-2015, 00:41
You better listen to Wally, he knows all about Karma...............................he ended up a half wit!! :laughing:

Russian Lad
19-12-2015, 00:46
Oh, my, poor Wally. :whew: Where is the other half?

FatAndy
19-12-2015, 10:41
Is it sweet dreams only?
Sweat ones, comrade. :)







:emote_popcorn:

Uncle Wally
19-12-2015, 12:50
Well, Wally, how is karma going to help you since you made your Russian friends more poor (if they trusted you, of course, because if they didn't trust your predictions they can hardly be called your friends)? If they listened to me, they would be much better off. So, in this instance, who is bringing bad karma, me or you? Let's face the music. I wish your friends well, and I would have proven it by this time with my correct predictions - I would make your friends 100% more rich, Wally. :balloon:





More twisted thoughts from the hateful one. Some of my friends are far richer than you will ever be.

Uncle Wally
19-12-2015, 12:55
You better listen to Wally, he knows all about Karma...............................he ended up a half wit!! :laughing:



I know a troll when I see one.



Nobbynumbnuts mom; What did you do today son?

Nobbynumbnuts; I trolled people on the internet mom!


Nobbynumbnuts mom; That's nice son, I am very proud of you.

nicklcool
19-12-2015, 13:18
Oil closed at just under $35 yesterday in NYC at COB:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/18/us-markets.html

Nobbynumbnuts
19-12-2015, 14:00
Oil closed at just under $35 yesterday in NYC at COB:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/18/us-markets.html

Many analysts expect oil to fall below $25 as early as Q1 next year. Going to be interesting to see how far it does fall and the reaction of producers..

TolkoRaz
19-12-2015, 15:05
Many analysts expect oil to fall below $25 as early as Q1 next year. Going to be interesting to see how far it does fall and the reaction of producers..

I am not an economist, but to drive the price back up, I assume that the output needs to decrease and existing supplies be used?

So, if a couple of countries who just happen to be major oil producers were invaded or attacked on a major scale which significantly reduced or denied oil output / export, would that drive the price back up to assist the attackers who also happen to be oil producers?

2016 could be an interesting year! ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
19-12-2015, 16:07
I am not an economist, but to drive the price back up, I assume that the output needs to decrease and existing supplies be used?

So, if a couple of countries who just happen to be major oil producers were invaded or attacked on a major scale which significantly reduced or denied oil output / export, would that drive the price back up to assist the attackers who also happen to be oil producers?

2016 could be an interesting year! ;)

Tensions in mid east always play a part in the oil price. Especially in the gulf. A huge percentage of the worlds oil passes through the straights of Hormuz. A narrow strip of water between Iran and Oman. If that looks like it might be under threat, then the price will up.

The reason for low prices at the moment are: Over supply and Iran to start producing again very soon, China slowdown, OPEC unable to agree production cuts and major producers stating their reluctance to cut output to drive competitors out of the market. Oil producers are in a trade war with each other.

I think you're working on a conspiracy theory? Please share...:winking:

TolkoRaz
19-12-2015, 16:42
I think you're working on a conspiracy theory? Please share...:winking:

Am quite sure you could work out a few scenarios! ;)

Alan65
19-12-2015, 22:32
Am quite sure you could work out a few scenarios! ;)

Melting permafrost destroys Russian pipelines.

Russian Lad
19-12-2015, 23:16
Melting permafrost destroys Russian pipelines.

Wonder how it affects their brains, this permafrost melting.

zzhhst
20-12-2015, 09:37
28-30 a barrel in the next few months. This is a quote from me. In any case, You people are lying to your selves. Just got back from Moscow. After tax season things are going to get very tough. American shale will break even at 30 after they will start closing the small oil man. With a new President next year we will finally have a new law to export oil after 45 years. We now have a supply to run the entire country for 5 years without imports or taking 1 drop out of the ground. Canada, will be online to export to Europe after the first of the year. Mexico has the largest untapped fields in the world. So anyone who thinks that the U.S.OF A. Wants Mid Eastern or Russian oil is a God Damn Fool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zzhhst
20-12-2015, 09:39
29578


My new weapon.

zzhhst
20-12-2015, 10:20
29578


My new weapon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4xjr9v5ehk

For your listening enjoyment

TolkoRaz
20-12-2015, 10:57
29578


My new weapon.

Very good - Have you got a sudden problem with Pigeons?

FatAndy
20-12-2015, 12:56
:emote_popcorn:

TolkoRaz
20-12-2015, 13:08
Andrusha, You are eating far too much popcorn today! ;)

FatAndy
20-12-2015, 13:54
Andrusha, You are eating far too much popcorn today! ;)
Semki, comrade - just no smailik for them!

Russian Lad
20-12-2015, 15:06
So anyone who thinks that the U.S.OF A. Wants Mid Eastern or Russian oil is a God Damn Fool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fully agree with you. I call them kvas patriots here. Well, I view it as a sort of intellectual disease, when a person is sick he needs a doctor, so I am trying to take care of them here - nipping in the bud their imperialistic aspirations, cutting short their other over-the-board, detached from reality fantasies and delusions. I have noticed that after they fully recover they just stop posting, I guess the initial sheer shock of finally eyeballing life like it really is, seeing the Truthъ is rather powerful. A free of charge online shrink taking personal care of you - a wet dream of many Westerners and I provide all this free of charge to comrades here.:smug: Communism of sorts, isn't it? One of the reasons they are enjoying the treatment. We go very slowly though, it has taken me many years here to heal some of the patients, but some are still undergoing the procedure, with a relatively moderate hope for recovery. Let's keep our fingers crossed for these dear comrades in need.
Also, I must mention Wally in this post or he will be offended. Wally, cheers, mate!

zzhhst
20-12-2015, 17:42
Very good - Have you got a sudden problem with Pigeons?

No Tolko belong to a few gun clubs. We get together have competitions against other clubs. We shoot trap, skeet, silhouette,high power or we go pheasant hunting. After we go inside for a nice meal. Drink bourbon and smoke good cigars. Here is a link to one of several clubs that I belong to. http://hunterscreekclub.com/ Has nothing to do with killing people. Just giving the other side of the story. Gun control.

TolkoRaz
20-12-2015, 19:34
No Tolko belong to a few gun clubs. We get together have competitions against other clubs. We shoot trap, skeet, silhouette,high power or we go pheasant hunting. After we go inside for a nice meal. Drink bourbon and smoke good cigars. Here is a link to one of several clubs that I belong to. http://hunterscreekclub.com/ Has nothing to do with killing people. Just giving the other side of the story. Gun control.

You do not shoot Skeet or Trap with that Assault Weapon! ;)

Nice club though!

zzhhst
20-12-2015, 19:55
You do not shoot Skeet or Trap with that Assault Weapon! ;)

Nice club though!

Of course not. The 91 falls into the high power division. Opens up other shooting opportunities. For me its a sport much like bowling, do i need a 91 no. I have a .308 browning bolt action. However, the H&K is beautiful. All my guns are kept in a bio safe know one gets in. Works off my fingerprints. We don't need more gun laws. They need to enforce the ones they have.

TolkoRaz
20-12-2015, 21:42
Of course not. The 91 falls into the high power division. Opens up other shooting opportunities. For me its a sport much like bowling, do i need a 91 no. I have a .308 browning bolt action. However, the H&K is beautiful. All my guns are kept in a bio safe know one gets in. Works off my fingerprints. We don't need more gun laws. They need to enforce the ones they have.

Good to read that you have a biometric safe! :) Just make sure that the bad guys do not use your attached or unattached finger to gain access to the Henry Kelly! ;)

Incidentally, do you store the ammuntion in a separate and secure safe?

zzhhst
21-12-2015, 07:10
Good to read that you have a biometric safe! :) Just make sure that the bad guys do not use your attached or unattached finger to gain access to the Henry Kelly! ;)

Incidentally, do you store the ammuntion in a separate and secure safe?

I have very little ammunition at home. I keep the bulk of it at the clubs in their magazine. We do a lot of reloading and resale to club members. Helps support the hunt clubs. Under the Obama admin
ammunition has become very expensive. At home I keep 32 rounds for my sidearm and 24 rounds for my shot gun. And yes locked up separate from the firearms. The bio safes have a pattern of finger prints. So if they cut mine off you still need the combination. Beside the H&K. I have a 50 mm cannon. Do I hunt with it no. However it sure is fun too shoot on the holidays. A big dream for me would be to have a hunt club outside of Moscow. I think it could be great. Russian farm land is just asking for pheasants and partridge. Good home cooked Russian food a nice wood heated сауна, Vodka and Cuban cigars. Hell might even invite President Putin himself. Well its fun to dream. (Hello Lad)

Fantastika
21-12-2015, 08:21
Very good - Have you got a sudden problem with Pigeons? 29578

Well, that's what I need to take care of these $%#$@$%! squirrels who seem to think they can use my attic to sleep through the winter! "Social justice" "Syrian" "immigrant" squirrels??

Fantastika
21-12-2015, 08:32
Good to read that you have a biometric safe! :) Just make sure that the bad guys do not use your attached or unattached finger to gain access to the Henry Kelly! ;)

Incidentally, do you store the ammuntion in a separate and secure safe?

Two home invasions in this state and Missouri last week, both cases the racist creeps went to heaven, I mean hell, because of armed homeowners.

Now if the homeowner had to find their key to a locked gun safe, unlock the case, go find the ammo, put the ammo in the gun, lock and load and fire, by then it would all be over. What are they supposed to do, tell the criminal to "Oh, please, sir, could you wait a a couple of minutes, while I look for the key to the safe so I can get my weapon, find the ammo, load it, and then defend myself?" :rofl:

Obviously, the media suppressed national coverage: people using their guns to kill criminals and save their lives, families and homes, doesn't fit with the media and TR's narrative.

Fantastika
21-12-2015, 08:34
Back to the thread, have gasoline prices (at the pump) declined in Russia?

Fantastika
21-12-2015, 08:38
You do not shoot Skeet or Trap with that Assault Weapon! ;)

Nice club though!

Let's see, everyone else has "assault" weapons, but you have "nice, friendly, defensive" weapons?:rofl:

zzhhst
21-12-2015, 08:45
Two home invasions in this state and Missouri last week, both cases the racist creeps went to heaven, I mean hell, because of armed homeowners.

Now if the homeowner had to find their key to a locked gun safe, unlock the case, go find the ammo, put the ammo in the gun, lock and load and fire, by then it would all be over. What are they supposed to do, tell the criminal to "Oh, please, sir, could you wait a a couple of minutes, while I look for the key to the safe so I can get my weapon, find the ammo, load it, and then defend myself?" :rofl:

Obviously, the media suppressed national coverage: people using their guns to kill criminals and save their lives, families and homes, doesn't fit with the media and TR's narrative.

You can do the combo in two seconds blind in the dark. Just so you know.

Fantastika
21-12-2015, 08:45
[QUOTE=zzhhst;1437911... Under the Obama admin
ammunition has become very expensive. ...[/QUOTE]

Tell me about it. If the gun-control psychos can't ban guns, they try to ban ammo. But there are always reloading dies and and other machines that can make ammo. King Barack is trying to ban these by proclaiming ammo made with lead is a crime.

zzhhst
21-12-2015, 09:05
Homemade ammunition is far superior in any case. They will and cannot stop sale of reloading equipment. Even if they did to many die makers machinist around here.

TolkoRaz
21-12-2015, 10:37
Homemade ammunition is far superior in any case. They will and cannot stop sale of reloading equipment. Even if they did to many die makers machinist around here.

Do you have to have a licence to buy the powder?

bydand
21-12-2015, 11:10
Do you have to have a licence to buy the powder?

No. Interesting to note, there is one powder that is HE, if detonated with a blasting cap, but not HE if detonated with a primer for cartridges.

Uncle Wally
21-12-2015, 12:07
You can do the combo in two seconds blind in the dark. Just so you know.


So it's a Helen Keller safe. H&K

Judge
21-12-2015, 12:07
Back to the thread, have gasoline prices (at the pump) declined in Russia?
No, it's been increasing for the past year ....and this past year rather rapidly ...
On my weekly travels, I pass TNK,BP,Gazprom and Rosneft stations, all have near enough the same price ,I'm talking about 95 petrol (the one I use),It's up by 2 roubles from over a year ago,funny thing is though,there is an Italian pump station AMI 9 my route , this has the lowest price of the lot, where's the big Russian companies are high 35,low 36 roubles, AMI sell at around 34 roubles. .

Fantastika
21-12-2015, 13:35
No, it's been increasing for the past year ....and this past year rather rapidly ...
On my weekly travels, I pass TNK,BP,Gazprom and Rosneft stations, all have near enough the same price ,I'm talking about 95 petrol (the one I use),It's up by 2 roubles from over a year ago,funny thing is though,there is an Italian pump station AMI 9 my route , this has the lowest price of the lot, where's the big Russian companies are high 35,low 36 roubles, AMI sell at around 34 roubles. .

If measured in dollars, then, it would be lower, close to price in US...

nicklcool
21-12-2015, 14:25
If measured in dollars, then, it would be lower, close to price in US...

Yes, the cost is about the same, a gallon is about four liters (3.8 to be exact) and the dollar is about 70 rubles, so 35 rubles for a liter = 2 dollars for a gallon in Russia.

zzhhst
21-12-2015, 19:52
Yes, the cost is about the same, a gallon is about four liters (3.8 to be exact) and the dollar is about 70 rubles, so 35 rubles for a liter = 2 dollars for a gallon in Russia.

$1.79 a gallon here Michigan.

zzhhst
21-12-2015, 19:53
Do you have to have a licence to buy the powder?

Everything is registered via https://www.atf.gov/ Also with the NRA. No Wally it is not a H&K safe.

zzhhst
21-12-2015, 20:12
Small quantities for personal use .5 kilo just need Id. Over 2 kilo in one year needs ATF notification.

Judge
26-12-2015, 14:26
A lot of talk about this, hopefully they will start laying tracks soon,

Germany is seeking economic cooperation with Russia, offering 2 billion euro to participate in the construction of a Moscow-Kazan high speed-railway, the Russian Railways reported Friday.

China Railway Group and Russian Railroad have kicked off a new project to design and build a high-speed railway between Moscow and the southeastern city of Kazan. It is expected that the line would be extended to Beijing, reducing the duration of a rail journey between Moscow and China's capital to 48 hours.



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20151226/1032320482/germany-russia-railways-funding.html#ixzz3vQQjnByU

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 16:11
A lot of talk about this, hopefully they will start laying tracks soon,

Germany is seeking economic cooperation with Russia, offering 2 billion euro to participate in the construction of a Moscow-Kazan high speed-railway, the Russian Railways reported Friday.

China Railway Group and Russian Railroad have kicked off a new project to design and build a high-speed railway between Moscow and the southeastern city of Kazan. It is expected that the line would be extended to Beijing, reducing the duration of a rail journey between Moscow and China's capital to 48 hours.



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20151226/1032320482/germany-russia-railways-funding.html#ixzz3vQQjnByU

Other 3rd world countries do the same. Thailand has just signed a similar deal with China to build a line to Kunming.
Has there been any public debate over building this high-speed line? Any environmental impact study? Will those effected by the route receive compensation? Or did Putin just sign the agreement?

And you've just got to love this line-"in terms of scale and significance," could be compared to the Suez Canal. A railway from Moscow to Kazan is as important as the Suez canal?? And worse of all, who believes it??......................who writes this sh*t?? :laughing:

Judge
26-12-2015, 16:34
Other 3rd world countries do the same. Thailand has just signed a similar deal with China to build a line to Kunming.
Has there been any public debate over building this high-speed line? Any environmental impact study? Will those effected by the route receive compensation? Or did Putin just sign the agreement?

And you've just got to love this line-"in terms of scale and significance," could be compared to the Suez Canal. A railway from Moscow to Kazan is as important as the Suez canal?? And worse of all, who believes it??......................who writes this sh*t?? :laughing:

Russia's 3rd world, have you been getting drunk with Alan this Christmas :big-grin:
Who cares about a deal between China and Thailand, this thread is about Russia, are you longing for Thailand too?

The article is more to do with the the German companies wanting again to do business with Russia,again!!

Public debate, the public want high speed rail....Kazan to Moscow in 4 hours, great for both cities. .
A project like this keeps 1000s in work for a long time, nearly 800km long, about half of the lengh of the UK..
Great boost for the local economy, hopefully in time for the World Cup. .

FatAndy
26-12-2015, 16:47
Or did Putin just sign the agreement?
Exactly. If you envy, comrade, then a) it's the sin; b) do it in silence (for decency) :)


A railway from Moscow to Kazan is as important as the Suez canal?? And worse of all, who believes it??......................who writes this sh*t??
Will see who will be laughing when it will be built ;) Remember Carbo and Nord Stream.

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 17:06
Russia's 3rd world, have you been getting drunk with Alan...who cares about a deal between China and Thailand, this thread is about Russia, are you longing for Thailand too?

The article is more to do with the the German companies wanting again to do business with Russia,again!!

Public debate, the public want high speed rail....Kazan to Moscow in 4 hours, great for both cities. .
A project like this keeps 1000s in work for a long time, nearly 800km , about half of the lengh of the UK..
Great boost for the local economy, hopefully in time for the World Cup. .

Go outside Moscow-out into the far provinces and take a good look around. Much of what you see is 3rd world. All while Russia wastes more money on the military.
German companies have never been against doing business with Russia, nor have any other companies. As long as the trade is legal and they get paid they will trade. That's their business. It's governments that are in charge of foreign policy and impose sanctions.

Yes, public debate. Openness and transparency in the process. Not everyone is for high speed rail. What about those who live near it? What impact is it having on the environment? How is it being funded? Who's funding it? How does the tendering process work? What are the planned benefits exactly? Have cheaper options been throughly evaluated (uprading existing lines) etc etc etc. All this should be in the public domain and open for discussion. It helps to reduce corruption (Russia 136th on transparence index) Just because a project appears to be of great benefit doesn't mean dictators should be handed a blank cheque and left alone to get on with it.

People get the governments they deserve..

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 17:12
Exactly. If you envy, comrade, then a) it's the sin; b) do it in silence (for decency) :)


Will see who will be laughing when it will be built ;) Remember Carbo and Nord Stream.

Right, we discovered it's Andy who believes this sh*t!

A high speed train line Mos-Kaz cannot be compared to the Suez canal. Please explain the world wide benefits! :laughing:

Judge
26-12-2015, 17:13
Exactly. If you envy, comrade, then a) it's the sin; b) do it in silence (for decency) :)


Will see who will be laughing when it will be built ;) Remember Carbo and Nord Stream.

Austerity hit countries can only dream about projects like this one...10000s in work, local factories providing most of the materials ...

Alan65
26-12-2015, 17:14
A lot of talk about this, hopefully they will start laying tracks soon,

Germany is seeking economic cooperation with Russia, offering 2 billion euro to participate in the construction of a Moscow-Kazan high speed-railway, the Russian Railways reported Friday.

China Railway Group and Russian Railroad have kicked off a new project to design and build a high-speed railway between Moscow and the southeastern city of Kazan. It is expected that the line would be extended to Beijing, reducing the duration of a rail journey between Moscow and China's capital to 48 hours.



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20151226/1032320482/germany-russia-railways-funding.html#ixzz3vQQjnByU
This story is as old as the hills....The 2018 world cup bid promised high speed lines linking all of the cities via high speed lines....There will not be one in place by 2018..

Russia does not have either the technology or standards to deliver this project so will have to rely on outside help.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/moscow-kazan-should-be-russias-first-dedicated-high-speed-line-says-rzd.html?sword_list%5B%5D=rzd&no_cache=1


http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/rzd-seeks-international-high-speed-expertise.html?sword_list%5B%5D=rzd&no_cache=1

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/rzd-proposes-fast-trains-to-serve-2018-world-cup.html?sword_list%5B%5D=rzd&no_cache=1

and I really love this on 1st April 2010

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/rzd-launches-moscow-st-petersburg-high-speed-line-project.html

Judge
26-12-2015, 17:17
Yes, public debate. Openness and transparency in the process. Not everyone is for high speed rail. What about those who live near it? What impact is it having on the environment? How is it being funded? Who's funding it? How does the tendering process work? What are the planned benefits exactly? Have cheaper options been throughly evaluated (uprading existing lines) etc etc etc. All this should be in the public domain and open for discussion. It helps to reduce corruption (Russia 136th on transparence index) Just because a project appears to be of great benefit doesn't mean dictators should be handed a blank cheque and left alone to get on with it.

If you care so much about it,check the local news, government sites about this projects, all the info you seek will be there..
Check here,
http://rzd.ru

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 17:32
If you care so much about it,check the local news, government sites about this projects, all the info you seek will be there..
Check here,
http://rzd.ru

That's the Russian railways site! If i want to know what time the train to Kazan is leaving i'll have a look! :laughing:

Where's the public debate? What about those who live near it? What impact is it having on the environment? How is it being funded? Who's funding it? How does the tendering process work? What are the planned benefits exactly? Have cheaper options been throughly evaluated (uprading existing lines) etc etc etc.

Comrade, people get the government they deserve! :winking:

Judge
26-12-2015, 17:35
This story is as old as the hills....The 2018 world cup bid promised high speed lines linking all of the cities via high speed lines....There will not be one in place by 2018..

If we are talking about the Moacow -Kazan link, this one should be up and running for the World Cup,I didn't know they planned on connecting all cities hosting games by high speed rail. .

Judge
26-12-2015, 17:37
That's the Russian railways site! If i want to know what time the train to Kazan is leaving i'll have a look! :laughing:

Where's the public debate? What about those who live near it? What impact is it having on the environment? How is it being funded? Who's funding it? How does the tendering process work? What are the planned benefits exactly? Have cheaper options been throughly evaluated (uprading existing lines) etc etc etc.



Google and yandex are your friend, search in there if you care, I haven't bothered to look,I've got better things to do with my time ..If you find anything, post it here.


Comrade, people get the government they deserve!

I agree, and the Russians are in favour of the current leadership. .

FatAndy
26-12-2015, 17:47
Right, we discovered it's Andy who believes this sh*t!

A high speed train line Mos-Kaz cannot be compared to the Suez canal. Please explain the world wide benefits! :laughing:
Comrade, put on your glasses and read the article again.:) Moscow-Beijing is compared with Suez canal, not Moscow-Kazan', which will be only part of it.

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 17:50
Google and yandex are your friend, search in there if you care, I haven't bothered to look,I've got better things to do with my time ..If you find anything, post it here..............

You're singing it's praises and you haven't seen these articles??.............As we both know, they don't exist. A government that has a free hand to spend public money when and how they like without any public consultation is shameful.

Mussolini had overwhelming public support as well.....................until they turned on him and strung him up by his ankles! :big-grin:

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 17:59
Comrade, put on your glasses and read the article again.:) Moscow-Beijing is compared with Suez canal, not Moscow-Kazan', which will be only part of it.

Not what the article says, i quote:

The cost of the 700 kilometer Moscow-Kazan rail line is calculated to be some $21.4 billion. The train is expected to travel at speeds of up to 400 kilometers per hour.
Under the new line, travelers would take three and half hours to get from Moscow to Kazan, compared to the current 14 hours.
According to a statement made earlier by Misharin, the railway will take up to 10 years to build and, "in terms of scale and significance," could be compared to the Suez Canal.

Even a line from Moscow to Beijing cannot be compared to the impact of the Suez canal. Again, explain the world wide importance?


Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20151226/1032320482/germany-russia-railways-funding.html#ixzz3vRGsIrXc

Alan65
26-12-2015, 18:06
If we are talking about the Moacow -Kazan link, this one should be up and running for the World Cup,I didn't know they planned on connecting all cities hosting games by high speed rail. .

Judge .....look at the links that I posted, RZD have canned the Moscow St Petes high speed line as they do not see the benefits, in other words between the 2 largest cities yet they choose Moscow Kazan mmmmm

There are only 30 months until the world cup, it would take that long to get a train control system in place yet the design has just started for infrastructure.

FatAndy
26-12-2015, 18:16
Journalists perverted everything, as usual. ;)
The quote in original was about "creating the new transport network", use Gugol' on "мишарин пекин суэцкий".

World...wide... switch on the simplest imagination, comrade. ;)

Currently any 40' container ordered in PRC is going by sea from HK logistic center, or from production clusters in Shanghai or Ningbo to Ams or Kotka for 40-43 days. Currently we receive goods by RZD and PRC railways from Shanghai to Moscow in 10 days by the same containers.
;)

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 18:55
Judge .....look at the links that I posted, RZD have canned the Moscow St Petes high speed line as they do not see the benefits, in other words between the 2 largest cities yet they choose Moscow Kazan mmmmm

There are only 30 months until the world cup, it would take that long to get a train control system in place yet the design has just started for infrastructure.

..and public debate and transparency are not required?

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 19:02
Journalists perverted everything, as usual. ;)
The quote in original was about "creating the new transport network", use Gugol' on "мишарин пекин суэцкий".

World...wide... switch on the simplest imagination, comrade. ;)

Currently any 40' container ordered in PRC is going by sea from HK logistic center, or from production clusters in Shanghai or Ningbo to Ams or Kotka for 40-43 days. Currently we receive goods by RZD and PRC railways from Shanghai to Moscow in 10 days by the same containers.
;)

Using my imagination i can imagine a Moscow to Beijing high speed link benefitting Russia and China and perhaps a third transit country like Kazakstan.
The Suez canal had a major impact on trade, world-wide.

Statements like "in terms of scale and significance," could be compared to the Suez Canal." are made by Russian politicians for Russian consumption. Any western government making such a ludicrous announcement would be immediately questioned by the opposition and the media to provide proof such a claim was true and debate would follow.

Russians believe anything the government tells them..as you have just proved

Judge
26-12-2015, 20:18
You're singing it's praises and you haven't seen these articles??.............As we both know, they don't exist. A government that has a free hand to spend public money when and how they like without any public consultation is shameful.

Mussolini had overwhelming public support as well.....................until they turned on him and strung him up by his ankles! :big-grin:
Praise cos it benefits many, now you are whining when Russia is even trying to make a faster rail system, no pleasing some,I guess you just like to whine for the sake of it..
They probably do exist and compensation paid out to whoever is affected, why do I know this, cos a new bypass has just been built on a motorway I often use,and I know for sure,locals were compensated very well, how do I know this, I know 2 people who live near the new road,so I guess the same will be for the new high speed rail. .

Now I know why you sound a bit bitter today ,man u lost again. ..:tongue:

Judge
26-12-2015, 20:25
Judge .....look at the links that I posted, RZD have canned the Moscow St Petes high speed line as they do not see the benefits, in other words between the 2 largest cities yet they choose Moscow Kazan mmmmm

There are only 30 months until the world cup, it would take that long to get a train control system in place yet the design has just started for infrastructure.

There is the Sapsan already, maybe they will do it at a later date, they are watching closely how much is spent on this World Cup,the economy isn't in the best of shapes, so cuts are expected. .

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 20:37
Praise cos it benefits many, now you are whining when Russia is even trying to make a faster rail system, no pleasing some,I guess you just like to whine for the sake of it..
They probably do exist and compensation paid out to whoever is affected, why do I know this, cos a new bypass has just been built on a motorway I often use,and I know for sure,locals were compensated very well, how do I know this, I know 2 people who live near the new road,so I guess the same will be for the new high speed rail. .

Now I know why you sound a bit bitter today ,man u lost again. ..:tongue:

This not about wether building high speed rail links can be beneficial or not and you know it.

It's about the lack of transparency and public debate on, and i repeat: What impact is it having on the environment? How is it being funded? Who's funding it? How does the tendering process work? What are the planned benefits exactly? Have cheaper options been throughly evaluated (uprading existing lines) etc etc etc. Like other large scale infrastructure projects vast amounts of the funds will end up in politicians/chosen partners pockets.
You should dwell on all that for a while before you blindly support the way the Russian government conducts business..

Judge
26-12-2015, 20:51
This not about wether building high speed rail links can be beneficial or not and you know it.

It's about the lack of transparency and public debate on, and i repeat: What impact is it having on the environment? How is it being funded? Who's funding it? How does the tendering process work? What are the planned benefits exactly? Have cheaper options been throughly evaluated (uprading existing lines) etc etc etc. Like other large scale infrastructure projects vast amounts of the funds will end up in politicians/chosen partners pockets.
You should dwell on all that for a while before you blindly support the way the Russian government conducts business..

So many questions, if you're that interested ,search for the info yourself. .
In the link I posted they discuss the funding, German consortium offers ‎€2bn investment, , Chinese and Russia too, you want more details ,google away.

Nobbynumbnuts
26-12-2015, 21:00
So many questions, if you're that interested ,search for the info yourself. .
In the link I posted they discuss the funding, German consortium offers ‎€2bn investment, , Chinese and Russia too, you want more details ,google away.

No discussion just government statements. That you and Russians believe and simply repeat.....

Judge
26-12-2015, 21:29
No discussion just government statements. That you and Russians believe and simply repeat.....

I took the time and Googled some more,came up with this, there will be much more on Russian sites, that's why I said use yandex,

At public hearings held in Kazan on July 30, weighing how construction of the high-speed rail line would affect the surrounding landscape, the century’s new construction project was assessed negatively. According to independent expert Rif Zarifullin, a high-speed rail line is not only ecologically harmful, but also too expensive.
http://rbth.com/business/2013/08/02/new_high-speed_rail_to_link_moscow_and_kazan_28621.html


Lots more info here about the HSR
http://www.eng.hsrail.ru

Judge
26-12-2015, 22:01
Footy posts moved here,
http://forum.expat.ru/showthread.php?668705-Football

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 01:05
I took the time and Googled some more,came up with this, there will be much more on Russian sites, that's why I said use yandex,

http://rbth.com/business/2013/08/02/new_high-speed_rail_to_link_moscow_and_kazan_28621.html


Lots more info here about the HSR
http://www.eng.hsrail.ru

It's all stage managed.
Hsrail is run by the First Vice-President, Russian Railways and an associate company of Russian Railways. So no impartial info there..

Rbth is owned and set up by Rossiyskaya Gazeta which are and i quote; a Russian government daily newspaper of record which publishes the official decrees, statements and documents of state bodies. (WIKI) It's mouthpiece for the Russian government..

Like i said, Russia needs real transparency. You and Russians will believe what this government feeds you..:winking:

Alan65
27-12-2015, 03:51
There is the Sapsan already, maybe they will do it at a later date, they are watching closely how much is spent on this World Cup,the economy isn't in the best of shapes, so cuts are expected. .

I think you have missed the point I made, Russia won the 2018 bid on the promise of high speed rail or significantly improved services connecting all of the major cities, not one will be in place, however do you believe that Russia actually needs high speed rail or perhaps just better services on existing lines such as Moscow - Kazan similar to the Sapsan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-04/russian-railways-plans-to-build-157-billion-of-high-speed-links

There are benefits of high speed rail but they tend to disappear when the journey time is in excess of 5 hours and it becomes quicker to fly.

The Sochi - Adler line has gone down as a significant failure.

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/02/the-sochi-light-rail-is-the-most-epic-failure-in-olympic-history/385580/

I also believe that the several Aeroexpress lines have been offloaded by RZD recently to local budgets.

Judge
27-12-2015, 08:14
It's all stage managed.
Hsrail is run by the First Vice-President, Russian Railways and an associate company of Russian Railways. So no impartial info there..

Rbth is owned and set up by Rossiyskaya Gazeta which are and i quote; a Russian government daily newspaper of record which publishes the official decrees, statements and documents of state bodies. (WIKI) It's mouthpiece for the Russian government..

Like i said, Russia needs real transparency. You and Russians will believe what this government feeds you..:winking:


I guess the public hearings were also staged ,actors being paid to turn up and ask questions ..:D

Judge
27-12-2015, 08:49
I think you have missed the point I made, Russia won the 2018 bid on the promise of high speed rail or significantly improved services connecting all of the major cities, not one will be in place, however do you believe that Russia actually needs high speed rail or perhaps just better services on existing lines such as Moscow - Kazan similar to the Sapsan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-04/russian-railways-plans-to-build-157-billion-of-high-speed-links

There are benefits of high speed rail but they tend to disappear when the journey time is in excess of 5 hours and it becomes quicker to fly.

The Sochi - Adler line has gone down as a significant failure.

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/02/the-sochi-light-rail-is-the-most-epic-failure-in-olympic-history/385580/

I also believe that the several Aeroexpress lines have been offloaded by RZD recently to local budgets.

Yes, they have scaled back on the train plans,we will see what's in place in 2018,maybe nothing like you say or one or two new services. .
Speeding up travel times between major cities is a plus in many ways, new high speed service or better service on existing lines,which ever is best, I'm no rail expert, but having better service and quicker time travels is a winner.It takes 14 hrs from Moscow to Kazan, the HSR under 4 hrs, stations all inside Moscow, easier ,more convenient to get to than say the airports. .
The Moscow -Kazan is also said to open in 2020,some say, 2018, let's see ..

Was this all part of the bid to host the finals, in the official bid, cos from what I read this HSR proposal seems to have come from the boss of RZD,connecting all cities via HSR. .

Judge
27-12-2015, 09:38
Since Nobs likes to mention Bangladesh now and again, here's some news about Russia helping them out
It sure would be nice if Russian banks offered the same lending conditions to local small businesses in Russia



DHAKA — Bangladesh's state-run Atomic Energy Commission signed a deal with Russia on Friday to set up two nuclear power plants, each with 1,200 megawatt capacity, an investment totalling $12.65 billion, a government official said.

Work will begin early next year at Ruppur in Iswardi, 160 km (100 miles) from Dhaka, said Kamrul Islam Bhyian, spokesman for the ministry of science and technology.

"Russia will finance up to 90 percent of the total cost as credit with an interest rate of Libor plus 1.75 percent," Bhyian told Reuters.

Bangladesh will clear the total loan within 28 years with a 10-year grace period.

Bangladesh finance minister Abul Maal Abdul Muhith said it would be the country's biggest power project.

The first power plant is expected to begin operating by 2022 and the second by 2023.

The official said the plant would use a new generation reactor that has a lifespan of 60 years with an option of extending it for 20 years.

The reactor contains improved safety features, and its passive safety system can work for 72 hours in any critical or emergency situation, it said.

Rosatom will maintain the plant for the first year of its commercial operation before handing over to the Bangladesh authorities, and will bear fuel costs for the first year of operation.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/bangladesh-signs-1265-bln-deal-with-russia-for-nuclear-power-plants/553866.html

FatAndy
27-12-2015, 11:14
Using my imagination i can imagine a Moscow to Beijing high speed link benefitting Russia and China and perhaps a third transit country like Kazakstan.
My condolences, comrade. Do they have imagination training courses in London and/or Thailand? :)


Any western government making such a ludicrous announcement would be immediately questioned by the opposition and the media to provide proof such a claim was true and debate would follow.
My condolences to Western governments and their so called opposition. Such the nervous and underpaid job... :mad:


Russians believe anything the government tells them..as you have just proved
Not everything, comrade (the claim appeared in Jul timeframe, as I've noticed from search, and whistled by), but, as I already told you, it's our internal f@$%ed business.
I sincerely appreciate your valuable advices, though ;) - at least they look funny.

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 12:56
I guess the public hearings were also staged ,actors being paid to turn up and ask questions ..:D

Where were the meetings (address)? Who attended? How many attended? When's the next one? What was the agenda? Where can all the technical data be found for the proposed line? Where can the public leave their comments? What will be done? etc etc etc etc etc..

All questions that should be easily found..

Judge
27-12-2015, 13:02
Where were the meetings (address)? Who attended? How many attended? When's the next one? What was the agenda? Where can all the technical data be found for the proposed line? Where can the public leave their comments? What will be done? etc etc etc etc etc..

All questions that should be easily found..

Hahaha, thanks for the laugh,
I showed there were public meetings, now you want the meeting minutes, :tongue_old:..google/yandex are your friend.

Judge
27-12-2015, 13:21
@FatAndy, I'll be accused of whataboutism, so be it,
This is an example of how things are done in Nob's democratic transparent UK,
Maybe you know, there has been a long going debate about fracking in the UK, lots of protests, meetings, and here is the final result,
Read a few of the first comments. ..
Fracking under national parks approved by MPs amid acrimony.



MPs have voted to allow fracking under Britain’s national parks, drawing accusations that the government has sneaked the measure through parliament without a proper debate.
In other words, screw the UK public.

http://gu.com/p/4f63k?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messages

Fracking under national parks, scandalous. ..worthy of its own thread. .:smile:

Actually it's not off topic much, Russia could do what the UK does and hold endless debates, but in the end stick 2 fingers up to the public.

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 13:26
Hahaha, thanks for the laugh,
I showed there were public meetings, now you want the meeting minutes, :tongue_old:..google/yandex are your friend.

Putin wants to build a train line and it will be built. Little or no public consultation or opposition will be considered. That's how dictators operate..:winking:

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 13:33
....sneaked the measure through parliament without a proper debate.....

How do you know that's true??

Judge
27-12-2015, 13:45
Putin wants to build a train line and it will be built. Little or no public consultation or opposition will be considered. That's how dictators operate..:winking:

If you read any of the links I posted, 80% of the public are in favour..the same 80% who support Putin.:winking:

Btw, if Alan is right, nothing will be built, so what's the point discussing this,:straight-face:

Judge
27-12-2015, 13:50
How do you know that's true??

I'm looking forward to the free press reporting on smelly water or gas coming from the taps,hopefully you don't live close cos fracking can cause mini earthquakes.
If I'm not mistaken, most of the fracking will take place in Tory heartland :dont-tell-anyone:

The UK was suppose to be hooked up to the Russian gas pipeline that was cancelled, this would have saved the UK national parks turning into ,
http://ecowatch.com/2013/10/03/report-calculates-damage-by-fracking/

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 13:56
I'm looking forward to the free press reporting on smelly water or gas coming from the taps,hopefully you don't live close cos fracking can cause mini earthquakes.
If I'm not mistaken, most of the fracking will take place in Tory heartland :dont-tell-anyone:

Yes, as i keep telling you, the power of a free press. The government gets sneaky and it's all over the front pages. They're being held to account and will suffer at the polls. Too many 'mistakes' and the public vote them from office.

Thanks for allowing me to make my point so well...:winking:

Judge
27-12-2015, 14:10
Yes, as i keep telling you, the power of a free press. The government gets sneaky and it's all over the front pages. They're are being held to account and will suffer at the polls. Too many 'mistakes' and the public vote them from office.

Thanks for allowing me to make my point so well...:winking:

You're welcome, it's good to let others on the site know how things are done in the UK.

All is also done in the open here too, you just have to know where to look, like I've been telling you.

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 14:28
.....All is also done in the open here too....

The press is controlled by the government. Many journalists have been murdered in Russia.

The organisation Reporters Without Borders compiles and publishes an annual ranking of countries based upon the organisation's assessment of their press freedom records. In 2013 Russia was ranked 148th out of 179 countries, six places below the previous year, mainly due to the return of Vladimir Putin.[4] Freedom House compiles a similar ranking and placed Russia at number 176 out of 197 countries for press freedom for 2013, putting it level with Sudan and Ethiopia.[5] The Committee to Protect Journalists states that Russia was the country with the 10th largest number of journalists killed since 1992, 26 of them since the beginning of 2000, including four from Novaya Gazeta.[6] It also placed Russia at number 9 in the world for numbers of journalists killed with complete impunity.[7] WIKI

Russia stinks...

Alan65
27-12-2015, 15:21
But staying on topic of rail, this is the hybrid bill that is currently being debated in select committee at the moment, it will then go to the House of Lords prior to Royal Assent if approved

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/high-speed-two-limited

Please enlighten us to a similar link to a Russian website.

FWIW ....high speed freight is only 120 kph, you may also want to use Yandex and look at teh New Silk Road via Kazakhstan, Georgia Iran and Turkey etc )))

Alan65
27-12-2015, 15:45
Yes, they have scaled back on the train plans,we will see what's in place in 2018,maybe nothing like you say or one or two new services. .
Speeding up travel times between major cities is a plus in many ways, new high speed service or better service on existing lines,which ever is best, I'm no rail expert, but having better service and quicker time travels is a winner.It takes 14 hrs from Moscow to Kazan, the HSR under 4 hrs, stations all inside Moscow, easier ,more convenient to get to than say the airports. .
The Moscow -Kazan is also said to open in 2020,some say, 2018, let's see ..

Was this all part of the bid to host the finals, in the official bid, cos from what I read this HSR proposal seems to have come from the boss of RZD,connecting all cities via HSR. .

Yes it was part of the bid, as it is on any Olympic bid etc, a large part of the bid is the legacy that will be left, regeneration, environmental impacts etc.

Please tell me which HSR standards you will be using for 400 kph railways, the current European standard is 350 kph and is in the process of being rewritten to 550kph for HS2....China uses European standards.

Judge
27-12-2015, 17:02
But staying on topic of rail, this is the hybrid bill that is currently being debated in select committee at the moment, it will then go to the House of Lords prior to Royal Assent if approved

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/high-speed-two-limited

Please enlighten us to a similar link to a Russian website.

FWIW ....high speed freight is only 120 kph, you may also want to use Yandex and look at teh New Silk Road via Kazakhstan, Georgia Iran and Turkey etc )))

HS2, there is such a farce surrounding this I don't even know where to begin, :yawn: but it will provide work for many.,what's the cost nowadays, £60bn,the Chinese still gonna foot the bill?

Again, like I said to Nobs,if you are that keen on finding info about HSR in Russia check the government sites yourself, I've posted a few links already,


Please tell me which HSR standards you will be using for 400 kph railways, the current European standard is 350 kph and is in the process of being rewritten to 550kph for HS2....China uses European standards.
Again,I'm no rail expert,such details don't interest me,what does is how quick I'll be able to travel and for how much...

FatAndy
27-12-2015, 17:16
:emote_popcorn:

Fantastika
27-12-2015, 17:18
Yes, as i keep telling you, the power of a free press. :rofl: The power of a pussycat. :rofl:

The government gets sneaky and it's all over the front pages. :rofl: Might appear on a page 32 squib... :rofl:

They're being held to account and will suffer at the polls. :rofl: Like UKIP, with 17% of the vote and no representation. Like Le Pen, with 28% of the vote and no representation.

Too many 'mistakes' and the public vote them from office. :rofl: Like Tea Party, with 60% OF THE VOTE and Republican RINO Representatives who morph into Liberal Democrat Progressives once they roll out of their Toyota Land Cruisers and into their million-dollar apartments in suburban Washington.

Thanks for allowing me to make my point so well... Blimey, you're serious! :rofl:

Welcome to KnobbyLand!

fenrir
27-12-2015, 17:41
The Pivot West

Russia's pivot east hasn't worked out so well. Now, they're losing even more business as some Eastern European countries do their own pivot to the West.

In Lithuania, Anti-Russia Sentiment Sends Oil Company Packing Its Bags

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/12/27/in-lithuania-anti-russia-sentiment-sends-oil-company-packing-its-bags/2/

Judge
27-12-2015, 18:11
Journalists perverted everything, as usual. ;)
The quote in original was about "creating the new transport network", use Gugol' on "мишарин пекин суэцкий".

World...wide... switch on the simplest imagination, comrade. ;)

Currently any 40' container ordered in PRC is going by sea from HK logistic center, or from production clusters in Shanghai or Ningbo to Ams or Kotka for 40-43 days. Currently we receive goods by RZD and PRC railways from Shanghai to Moscow in 10 days by the same containers.
;)

Here's another route they just made quicker,


The train has cut the transportation time of exports from Dongguan to Russia from up to 60 days, down to only 15 days.
http://english.cri.cn/12394/2015/12/27/2743s910308.htm

With many Russians using aliexpress even more these days,this will be a massive improvement on delivery times..
China's New Silk Road is starting to grow. ..

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 18:13
[I].....Like UKIP, with 17% of the vote.........


In 2011 the British people were asked if they wanted to change the present electoral system. 67.9% of voters chose to stick with the present system.

"Mr Clegg MP [supporter for change] said: "I wish I could say this was a photo finish but it isn't, the result is very clear. I'm a passionate supporter of political reform but when the answer is as clear as this, you have got to accept it."


carry on ranting and raving.....:winking:

FatAndy
27-12-2015, 18:27
In 2011 the British people were asked if they wanted to change the present electoral system. 67.9% of voters chose to stick with the present system.

"Mr Clegg MP [supporter for change] said: "I wish I could say this was a photo finish but it isn't, the result is very clear. I'm a passionate supporter of political reform but when the answer is as clear as this, you have got to accept it."
Very, very good. Now learn how to live with it, your internal f@$#%d business... :rasta:

Nobbynumbnuts
27-12-2015, 19:28
...With many Russians using aliexpress even more these days,this will be a massive improvement on delivery times..
China's New Silk Road is starting to grow. ..

..yes, great for China but what is Russia going to export?

Alan65
27-12-2015, 23:19
HS2, there is such a farce surrounding this I don't even know where to begin, :yawn: but it will provide work for many.,what's the cost nowadays, £60bn,the Chinese still gonna foot the bill?

Again, like I said to Nobs,if you are that keen on finding info about HSR in Russia check the government sites yourself, I've posted a few links already,


Again,I'm no rail expert,such details don't interest me,what does is how quick I'll be able to travel and for how much...

Despite working on many HS rail projects throughout the world, I will bow to judges experience.

Judge
28-12-2015, 00:04
Despite working on many HS rail projects throughout the world, I will bow to judges experience.

What don't you understand by I'm no rail expert, I'll leave the details to experts like your goodself,.
All the news I've read about rail works in the UK is one problem after another, the costs keeps rising,UK leaders going to China looking for funds, Network Rail boss sacked, projects frozen and so on,farce is putting it kindly. .

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 00:12
What don't you understand by I'm no rail expert, I'll leave the details to experts like your goodself,.
All the news I've read about HSR in the UK is one problem after another, the costs keeps rising,UK leaders going to China looking for funds, people getting sacked, complete farce. .

You read about plenty of problems with HSR in the UK. I'm glad all the problems are there for you and everyone else to consider.
You don't hear about any problems with HSR in Russia so it's a good 'un?? Jesus Christ, no wonder Putin has 80% popularity, FFS!

Cannot believe what you are saying, i'm speechless....

Judge
28-12-2015, 00:16
You read about plenty of problems with HSR in the UK. I'm glad all the problems are there for you and everyone else to consider.
You don't hear about any problems with HSR in Russia so it's a good 'un?? Jesus Christ, no wonder Putin has 80% popularity, FFS!

Cannot believe what you are saying, i'm speechless....

You have a problem with understanding or you don't open the links I posted, in the public meeting about HSR in Kazan they discussed the problems, it was in the news..there will be even more in Russian,check out local Kazan news ..If you care so much about this, google the name of the guy who complained at the Public meeting, he's probably talking some more about it in the media..
Your comprehension skills are lacking, again. .

Nobbynumbnuts
28-12-2015, 00:24
You have a problem with understanding or you don't open the links I posted, in the public meeting about HSR in Kazan they discussed the problems, it was in the news..there will be even more in Russian,check out local Kazan news ..If you care so much about this, google the name of the guy who complained at the Public meeting, he's probably talking some more about it in the media..
Your comprehension skills are lacking, again. .

So, building a HSR in UK is a farce and a joke and building one in Russia is not? And if not, why not?

Judge
28-12-2015, 00:25
..yes, great for China but what is Russia going to export?

If you have to ask such questions, you won't understand the answer, so ,I won't bother.