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Judge
09-12-2014, 12:02
US Embassies brace for backlash over CIA torture report
Following four years of intense wrangling between the CIA and a US Senate oversight committee, America faces day of reckoning over use of torture after 9/11

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11281304/US-Embassies-brace-for-backlash-over-CIA-torture-report.html

TolkoRaz
09-12-2014, 14:25
Of course, it overlooks the many countries which assisted the US of A by providing 3rd Country Black Sites used for the torture of those subjected to rendition etc.

Despite the methods employed and the pain inflicted, very little actionable or pre-emptive intelligence was gained from the subjects.

FatAndy
09-12-2014, 15:26
It's impossible in The Citadel of Democracy, first.

Reputable independent Western media lie again, second.

TolkoRaz
09-12-2014, 15:40
Sadly, Russia also assisted the US of A with some of the renditions and some sites were very close to the RF! ;)

Fantastika
09-12-2014, 17:36
It's very simple.

Obama has a truckload of scandals he is running from. This is simply to distract attention from his own scandals.

The regime and their poodle-dog media is again regressing back to the Bush administration to find a scandal, and continuing to suppress and ignore real scandals occurring today - ISIS getting US weapons, NSA snooping, Fast & Furious arming Mexican narco-terrorists, IRS suppression of political activity, etc.

So, you see, everything, it's still all George Bush's fault.

Benedikt
10-12-2014, 10:57
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

I tried to download on several links, from different newspapers or sites. not ONE let me get it. is big brother blocking so we can not read it?

TolkoRaz
10-12-2014, 11:04
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

I tried to download on several links, from different newspapers or sites. not ONE let me get it. is big brother blocking so we can not read it?

This works:

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy3.pdf

Benedikt
10-12-2014, 11:11
[QUOTE=TolkoRaz;1379374]This works:


tx. will keep me reading for a while...:yikes:

Uncle Wally
10-12-2014, 11:54
Why is nobody going to prison for this?

TolkoRaz
10-12-2014, 12:02
Why is nobody going to prison for this?

Because too many people have already been to prison for crimes they did not commit! ;)

There will be calls and legal challenges against those who have broken the Geneva Convention and other UN or International Laws.

As a member of the UN and having a permanent seat on the Council, if the US of A does not ensure that it upholds the well established Laws, then how can they ever claim in the future to be acting against others who have broken International Law?

Uncle Wally
10-12-2014, 13:34
Because too many people have already been to prison for crimes they did not commit! ;)

There will be calls and legal challenges against those who have broken the Geneva Convention and other UN or International Laws.

As a member of the UN and having a permanent seat on the Council, if the US of A does not ensure that it upholds the well established Laws, then how can they ever claim in the future to be acting against others who have broken International Law?


The US of A has broken so many laws it's not funny. But you know "might makes right"

Armoured
10-12-2014, 16:37
So, you see, everything, it's still all George Bush's fault.

No, not everything.

But the torture - yes.

Benedikt
10-12-2014, 17:00
Why is nobody going to prison for this?


-wo kein Kläger,auch kein Richter-

suppose freely translated, where there is no prosecutor/prosecuting there is also no Judge....
and who from Gitmo is going to be a witness? and if / when prisoners had been brought to -friendly countries- and maybe interrogation was held by -affiliates-

Uncle Wally
10-12-2014, 17:39
-wo kein Kläger,auch kein Richter-

suppose freely translated, where there is no prosecutor/prosecuting there is also no Judge....
and who from Gitmo is going to be a witness? and if / when prisoners had been brought to -friendly countries- and maybe interrogation was held by -affiliates-


We know who ordered it, we know where it was done and who they hired to do it.

Judge
10-12-2014, 22:34
Sadly, Russia also assisted the US of A with some of the renditions

Are you sure, any links...from what I gather, Russia wasn't one of the countries mentioned in past reports...



some sites were very close to the RF!

like in Poland and Lithuania...



Of course, it overlooks the many countries which assisted the US of A by providing 3rd Country Black Sites used for the torture of those subjected to rendition etc.

Despite the methods employed and the pain inflicted, very little actionable or pre-emptive intelligence was gained from the subjects.

It's been known for sometime, reports have been coming out for ages about 'Black Sites' , people kidnapped off the streets.....Some in the media are pushing this now, for other countries to come clean..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-report-europe-complicity-britain

Uncle Wally
10-12-2014, 23:56
Are you sure, any links...from what I gather, Russia wasn't one of the countries mentioned in past reports...




like in Poland and Lithuania...




It's been known for sometime, reports have been coming out for ages about 'Black Sites' , people kidnapped off the streets.....Some in the media are pushing this now, for other countries to come clean..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-report-europe-complicity-britain




No in the Stans man.

bydand
11-12-2014, 10:15
Despite the methods employed and the pain inflicted, very little actionable or pre-emptive intelligence was gained from the subjects.

Senator McCain is correct about this. I attended a seminar of his in 1975 or 6 at the University of Colorado. Even back then he said when being tortured the prisoners learned they could lie/make things up to appease their interrogators. Name, rank, and serial number wouldn't make them happy. Of course they asked questions of prisoners they knew nothing about.

Armoured
11-12-2014, 10:48
Even back then he said when being tortured the prisoners learned they could lie/make things up to appease their interrogators.

Wish I had the link I read last night, but anyway: here's the embarrassing part:

CIA developed 'enhanced interrogations' to a large degree by studying the air force's torture-resistance training. That training was mostly based on experiences of aviators (like McCain) in Vietnam and Korea - Chinese directed.

_Those_ torture programs were NOT designed to get actionable intelligence - but false confessions for propaganda purposes.

Combine this with pressure from above - documented in the Senate report - to get specific information linking Iraq with ... well, with something/anything made it a spiral and epic clusterfcuk. They kept getting nothing until they got what they wanted. The prisoners would and did say anything to make the pain stop, and it stopped only when they gave the interrogators what they wanted.

Uncle Wally
11-12-2014, 11:44
I heard today that the only person to go to jail over this is the whistleblower who broke the news. He's doing almost 3 years. Way to go guys!

ConanS
11-12-2014, 13:57
I heard today that the only person to go to jail over this is the whistleblower who broke the news. He's doing almost 3 years. Way to go guys!

The government has already lost face in light of this report, so it clearly makes sense to jail the guy who brought this up. Yay for making no sense!

Benedikt
11-12-2014, 16:36
We know who ordered it, we know where it was done and who they hired to do it.



is there a prosecutor who is going to prosecute? are there going to be any witnesses? the court in Strasbourg and deHague are useless. they prosecute half dead war criminals, captured (ex) Yugoslavs where they have nothing to fear. But REAL misfits, they die long before a case comes to court and are rotten before a verdict is found.

Fantastika
11-12-2014, 17:52
Because too many people have already been to prison for crimes they did not commit! ;)

There will be calls and legal challenges against those who have broken the Geneva Convention and other UN or International Laws.

As a member of the UN and having a permanent seat on the Council, if the US of A does not ensure that it upholds the well established Laws, then how can they ever claim in the future to be acting against others who have broken International Law?

I have to play "devil's advocate" on this.

First of all, we are dealing with a group of people who kidnap and continue to torture prisoners, for years in some cases. Their idea of "justice" is to seize an innocent reporter or medical worker and publicly chop their head off. The world, not just the US, is dealing with an insurgent barbaric army sweeping across the Middle East, stampeding through Christian towns and villages, raping, pillaging and murdering, and destroying all non-muslim-cultist artifacts in their wake, even killing thousands of Muslims who don't agree with its version of Islam. This is not to mention the original use of enhanced interrogation to find the low-life animal-butchers responsible for the slaughter of 3000 innocent men, women and children on 9/11.

Second, the US did obtain useful intelligence operation. This biased report sets up a few straw men and knocks them down, claiming otherwise. However the partisan report only took testimony from one side, they did not interview anyone from the CIA.

And the US has not suffered any mass terrorist attacks since 9/11 (apart from crazed assassins acting alone), so enhanced interrogation has provided some benefit.

Third, the report fits a partisan political media narrative. Dianne Feinstein, Senator-for-life from California is more or less solely responsible for its release now, in December 2014. The report was released on the same day that economist Jonathan Gruber testified about the Affordable Care Act. It was released to shift focus away from Obamacare's failures. Timing is also a factor in that Democrats are aware that the incoming Republican-majority Congress would never release such a biased report. The Democrats and their poodle-dog media don't want to talk about Jonathan Gruber (Obama's advisor on health care: "Americans were so stupid (to swallow the lies we fed them)" or the IRS. It's not about democracy, it's about politics.

The commission originated as a joint Republican-Democrat effort, but the Feinstein report was written by the Senate Intelligence (oxymoron that) Committee's Democrat staff. Republicans left the panel when it became apparent the inquiry was intended as a hit on the George W. Bush administration and the panel would not interview the CIA personnel they accused of wrongdoing.

Senator Feinstein and her colleagues (from both parties) were briefed in detail on every activity field agents took to protect the US from further attacks. The senator and her colleagues (as well as the Department of Justice) approved every one of those practices.

The 78-year-old harridan is a hypocrite about national security - she had no problem with the NSA reading e-mail until she found out it included her own.

Earlier this year, Feinstein accused the CIA of infiltrating Senate computer systems. The CIA purportedly did look at hers, and hers alone, in an effort to see if classified information was being shared with terrorists.

Even Secretary of State John Kerry said that the inflammatory details of the report might provoke our enemies to redouble efforts to attack U.S. facilities overseas and target Americans.

The biggest flaw in the Democrat report is that their investigators did not interview any of the actual participants, relying instead on cables, other documents and videotapes.

Any person releasing classified information to the enemy during a war would be charged with a national security breach, similar to Ed Snowden. Any member of the military revealing secret military methods would be charged with treason, but Feinstein gets a p**** from the media, and from justice. The media will ignore the fallout from this, the destruction of the CIA's information-gathering apparatus, and the deaths of agents and covert helpers around the world.

Innocent Americans and others around the world are about to be murdered by BS Propaganda distributed by the Obama Administration with Candy Feinstein leading the way.

This is a Criminal use of the Media.

Can anyone cite one practical good accomplished by releasing this gratuitously destructive report at this time? Will revealing successful practices make us more secure?
No.

The report provides a propaganda windfall for Islamist fanatics. Will it benefit our allies?
No.

It exposes those who took great risks to help us in the wake of 9/11. Will it “set the record straight?”
No.

It distorts the record grotesquely in the interests of political correctness, blame-shifting and short-term political advantage.

We are supposed to believe that if there had been no post 911 interrogations of suspected (or proven) terrorists, then the Middle East Jihadists would just “be chillin, and laid back and all cool and all like that”?

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrreeeee they would, and the whole world would be rainbows and unicorns.

Team Obama’s genius for failure in every policy field, foreign or domestic, has left the administration’s inner circle frantic to deflect attention from its parade of deceptions, derelictions and disasters. About the only thing left to them is to exhume, yet again, the mutilated-by-the-Left corpse of the George W. Bush administration.

ConanS
11-12-2014, 20:51
is there a prosecutor who is going to prosecute? are there going to be any witnesses? the court in Strasbourg and deHague are useless. they prosecute half dead war criminals, captured (ex) Yugoslavs where they have nothing to fear. But REAL misfits, they die long before a case comes to court and are rotten before a verdict is found.

It just goes to show how powerless the rest of the world is when it comes to the US. Part of my discussions in my major at school involved the paradox of the rest of the world wanting to break away from US support at these major organizations, yet they can't due to the clout and money provided by them.

Uncle Wally
11-12-2014, 22:06
It just goes to show how powerless the rest of the world is when it comes to the US. Part of my discussions in my major at school involved the paradox of the rest of the world wanting to break away from US support at these major organizations, yet they can't due to the clout and money provided by them.

There is just one thing that many do not understand. There is more of us than them, they know it and that's what they fear. The US didn't win the cold war it was just Russians did not believe in it any more and gave up, more and more disobaied. That's what we need to do.

ConanS
11-12-2014, 22:44
There is just one thing that many do not understand. There is more of us than them, they know it and that's what they fear. The US didn't win the cold war it was just Russians did not believe in it any more and gave up, more and more disobaied. That's what we need to do.

The fact that American military expenditures far outweighs the next four closest countries also can be a factor

Uncle Wally
11-12-2014, 23:22
The fact that American military expenditures far outweighs the next four closest countries also can be a factor



They can spend all they want but when we stop spending our money on their psy masters crap they may listen.

ConanS
12-12-2014, 10:01
They can spend all they want but when we stop spending our money on their psy masters crap they may listen.

I do agree that it would force the rest of the world to stand up and listen. However, what about burning bridges? America already is losing support, in light of current events, so I don't think it'd be a great move in the long term.

Fantastika
12-12-2014, 15:17
They can spend all they want but when we stop spending our money on their psy masters crap they may listen.

?

Uncle Wally
12-12-2014, 16:17
?



Pay.

Fantastika
14-12-2014, 20:45
"Torture" is watching your son get his head chopped off on TV and thinking about that image every day for the rest of your life.

TolkoRaz
14-12-2014, 20:55
"Torture" is watching your son get his head chopped off on TV and thinking about that image every day for the rest of your life.

As many informed observers have already commented, the hostage taking & filmed beheading by IS / Da'esh is a direct result of the US of A's brutal Rendition & Interrogation programme :book:

Fantastika
14-12-2014, 21:26
As many informed observers have already commented, the hostage taking & filmed beheading by IS / Da'esh is a direct result of the US of A's brutal Rendition & Interrogation programme :book:

Nope. Radical Islam has been chopping heads off infidels since long before the "brutal" CIA program.

Muhammed himself led the head-chopping brigades throughout Asia long before the United States existed.

TolkoRaz
14-12-2014, 21:58
Nope. Radical Islam has been chopping heads off infidels since long before the "brutal" CIA program.

Muhammed himself led the head-chopping brigades throughout Asia long before the United States existed.

Fine, OK, have it your own way :)

Have you overlooked the fact that many who have been recently beheaded were wearing the same Orange suits which the US of A made those in Gitmo wear? ;)

The extremists were sending a clear message of revenge....................

You can expect more filmed beheadings prior to and over Christmas! :10310:

Fantastika
14-12-2014, 23:08
So, since my Vietnamese friend died at the Pentagon on 9/11, I'm justified to go out and chop off the head of the Pakistan store owner here in town?

Yes, as long as Obama reigns, we can expect thereligionofpeace.com to continue its self-destruction.

Yes, and we can expect the Western media to cram the video down our throats, and cry crocodile tears for the slain innocents.

Fantastika
15-12-2014, 15:19
Tony Abbot ("I'm going to shirtfront Putin", sends weapons so Ukrainians can kill civilians), what a bootlicking coward when it comes to Islam.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sydney-siege-in-holding-pattern-after-5-people-emerge-from-cafe-1.2873068

"Prime Minister Tony Abbott says incident is politically motivated"

It's NEVER about Islam, is it? It's about "workplace violence," "politically motivated," "gang-related," or "a random attack", etc. but it's NEVER about ISLAM, even if the attacker shouts "Allah akbar!" as he attacks or displays an ISIS flag.

Excuse my sarcasm, and excuse the cowardice of Western "leaders."

Matt24
15-12-2014, 17:02
So, since my Vietnamese friend died at the Pentagon on 9/11, I'm justified to go out and chop off the head of the Pakistan store owner here in town?

Yes, as long as Obama reigns, we can expect thereligionofpeace.com to continue its self-destruction.

Yes, and we can expect the Western media to cram the video down our throats, and cry crocodile tears for the slain innocents.

I suspect that the 'moderators' (no pun intended) don't bother to read your tripe, but surely on an English language site for english speakers "P**i' is sufficiently racist to earn some degree of punishment?

Judge
15-12-2014, 19:23
Thanks for pointing that out Matt, PM sent to Fantastika....


back to the CIA report...

Here's what Bush had to say about torture..

starts at 50sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6LtL9lCTRA


they stick to their law, American law and also international law...
Cheney said Bush was "fully informed" about CIA interrogation techniques,so which one is lying?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30427211

Judge
15-12-2014, 19:30
No in the Stans man.

Yeah,also in some Stan countries and around another 50 countries.

Judge
15-12-2014, 19:40
Why is nobody going to prison for this?

Like who?
How will it look if Obama's people went after the CIA, started to prosecute , lock up the colleagues of the people who are out there protecting America..


If Obama goes after Bush and Cheney and others ,the Republicans after winning the White House could go after Obama and his people..