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Uncle Wally
28-10-2014, 01:46
http://news.yahoo.com/us-embassy-moscow-faces-cold-war-era-harassment-122600962--abc-news-topstories.html

AstarD
28-10-2014, 08:18
http://news.yahoo.com/us-embassy-moscow-faces-cold-war-era-harassment-122600962--abc-news-topstories.html

Sounds as if it's time for more of that reciprocity Russia is so fond of.

Judge
29-10-2014, 10:20
is this another case of ore mudslinging..


Moscow Dismisses Claims of 'Psychological Pressure' on US Diplomats in Russia

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20141028/194748657/Moscow-Dismisses-Claims-of-Psychological-Pressure-on-US-Diplomats-in-Russia.html

FatAndy
29-10-2014, 10:47
What a language!

shadowy individuals
unspecified hardships
Life under constant surveillance
every conversation will be monitored and every movement followed
were believed to be behind
fabrication in retaliation
was followed almost everywhere he went in an aggressive, at times threatening way
ambassador himself frequently complained publicly about his treatment - so tender... poor Yorick...

And, of course, how they can omit...
(FSB), a successor to the Soviet KGB

Russia's Foreign Ministry declined to comment before this report was published - how to comment the clinical paranoia? :eh:

:verycool:

Judge
29-10-2014, 11:09
Soviet KGB
Needs to be said...

That's the reminder of the old enemy....:whisper:

vossy7
29-10-2014, 11:41
Any of you watching The Americans ...... The Americans (TV Series 2013– ) - IMDb

Nice lighthearted look at spy shenanigans during the cold war 80s ......good pizza and wine fodder for the senses :)

Judge
29-10-2014, 12:08
I moved some posts here

http://expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=636044

Uncle Wally
29-10-2014, 13:48
Maybe they should arrest some and cavity search them.




By far the most troubling part for Indians are assertions that Ms. Khobragade, 39, was strip-searched after her arrest. Some Indian newspapers published reports claiming that she was subjected to repeated cavity searches. The Indian national security adviser, Shivshankar Menon, has called such treatment “despicable” and “barbaric.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/world/asia/outrage-in-india-over-female-diplomats-arrest-in-new-york.html?_r=0

AstarD
29-10-2014, 16:40
:soapbox:


Russia Denies Report Alleging Harassment of U.S. Embassy Staff (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/510272.html)

By Jennifer Monaghan
Oct. 29 2014 15:22
Last edited 15:23


Russia's Foreign Ministry has issued an angry denial following a report that U.S. Embassy staff are facing increased harassment and psychological pressure while working in Moscow, appealing to the U.S. to stop the "negativity."

In an article published Monday, U.S.-based broadcaster ABC News reported that a number of embassy staff had encountered intimidation during their employment in Russia.

Citing a report by the U.S. State Department's Inspector General's Office published late last year, ABC said " [U.S.] employees face intensified pressure by the Russian security services at a level not seen since the days of the Cold War."

Some U.S. officials spoke of being openly tailed by Russian agents, while others said they would return home to find their possession had been moved in their absence, ABC reported, adding the names of the alleged victims had been withheld in the interests of security.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Will Stevens was cited as saying the harassment had prompted embassy and State Department officials to raise the issue "with various interlocutors within the Russian government," while ABC reported that U.S. President Barack Obama had aired his grievances at a meeting with Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin.

In an online statement published Tuesday, Russia's Foreign Ministry dismissed the report as "groundless."


"The voiced complaints are below the level of cheap spy detective stories. They are brought down to trivial fantasies about hacked personal e-mails, slashed tires and mysterious break-ins," the statement said.

"But if Washington has launched a 'public' discussion, we also have something to say," the ministry added, before detailing alleged violations against Russian staff working in the U.S.

"We can recall a recent incident involving the use of force not only against the employees of our embassy in the U.S. but also against their wives who were detained, handcuffed and questioned. Despite our appeals, the U.S. side did not offer any apologies," the ministry said in its statement.

According to the ministry, employees of the Russian Scientific and Cultural Center in Washington have also been deliberately harassed, adding that staff were constantly receiving phone calls.

The tit-for-tat accusations come as relations between the West and Russia have plummeted to levels not seen since the end of the Cold War, with the West levying economic sanctions against Moscow over for its policy on Ukraine.

In its Tuesday statement, Russia's Foreign Ministry appealed to its U.S. counterpart not to risk further denting the already delicate relations between the two counties.

"We advise our colleagues in the U.S. not to contribute further negativity to the already gloomy background in our relations. Problems are not solved in this way, but are only made worse," the ministry said.

Armoured
29-10-2014, 16:58
I liked this bit:
"Since the beginning of this year alone, over 20 cases of traffic rules violation committed in terms of the U.S. Embassy employees’ trips in Moscow and other Russian cities have been recorded."

Uncle Wally
29-10-2014, 17:17
I liked this bit:
"Since the beginning of this year alone, over 20 cases of traffic rules violation committed in terms of the U.S. Embassy employees’ trips in Moscow and other Russian cities have been recorded."


Oh yeah very funny,

On 27 October 1998, in Vladivostok, Russia, Douglas Kent, the American Consul General to Russia, was involved in a car accident that left a young man, Alexander Kashin, disabled. Kent was not prosecuted in a U.S. court. Under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, diplomatic immunity does not apply to civil actions relating to vehicular accidents. However, on 10 August 2006, a U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that, since he was using his own vehicle for consular purposes, Kent may not be sued civilly


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/02/diplomat-kenya-car-crash/2612229/

http://www.rferl.org/content/us-diplomat-car-crash-pakistan/24902892.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/23/us/washington-crocker-dui-charge/index.html

Armoured
29-10-2014, 17:23
Oh yeah very funny,

You are seriously losing it. It _is_ very funny, as you just step right in and self-parody.

The cases referred to are not the case from 1998. You can tell because they happened in different years.

AstarD
29-10-2014, 17:23
Oh yeah very funny,

On 27 October 1998, in Vladivostok, Russia, Douglas Kent, the American Consul General to Russia, was involved in a car accident that left a young man, Alexander Kashin, disabled. Kent was not prosecuted in a U.S. court. Under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, diplomatic immunity does not apply to civil actions relating to vehicular accidents. However, on 10 August 2006, a U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that, since he was using his own vehicle for consular purposes, Kent may not be sued civilly


Such is the nature of diplomatic immunity. Russian diplomats also enjoy immunity and get off when they kill people in traffic accidents.

Russian diplomats rile quiet Canada (http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0202/p8s1.html)

Moscow's assurance to pursue drunk driving cases are not enough for many.
By Fred Weir Special to The Christian Science Monitor FEBRUARY 2, 2001
MOSCOW — A fatal car accident involving an allegedly drunk Russian diplomat has normally sedate Canadians clamoring for a rewrite of the rules on diplomatic immunity.

Moscow has promised to try the culprit under Russian laws, but the case may stumble over very different attitudes toward drinking and driving in the cultures - and legal systems - of the two countries.

It has also galvanized Canadians, with their self-image as a moral force in the global community - Canada is a leader in the international campaign to ban land mines, for instance - to address another injustice.

The incident occurred Saturday as Andrei Knyazev, first secretary of the Russian Embassy in Canada, was driving home after a day of ice fishing, a sport Russian men typically enjoy with copious amounts of vodka. His out-of-control car struck two pedestrians on a sidewalk, killing one woman, a leading labor lawyer, and seriously injuring another.

A second Russian diplomat returning from the fishing expedition, embassy driver Yevgeny Blokhin, was involved in a separate fender-bender just minutes later. Both men claimed diplomatic immunity.

After Moscow refused the Canadian government's demand to waive Mr. Knyazev's immunity, both were expelled and arrived in Russia Tuesday night.

Earlier in the day, Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin, in an eloquent and moving apology, pledged that Knyazev would be investigated and tried in a Russian court. "We have no intention ... for [Knyazev] to avoid the severity of punishment which he should undergo under law for a thing he has done," Mr. Churkin said. "We are expecting a criminal proceeding."

Under Russian law, Knyazev may be liable for involuntary manslaughter, with a maximum penalty of five years in prison plus three years suspension of driver's license. In Canada, where the charges include criminal negligence causing death, he could have faced 25 years or more. As in the US, legal and social strictures against drunk driving have been ratcheting up for decades.

The case has triggered enormous uproar. Newspaper letter columns, Internet chat rooms, and editorials have been awash with demands that Canada lead the international charge for sweeping changes to the 1961 Vienna Convention, which provides blanket immunity for diplomats serving abroad.

"When you're a diplomat, you're above the law," Canadian security expert Peter Marwitz told the Toronto Globe and Mail, in a typical comment. "It's just not right. It's not morally right."

Canadian Foreign Minister John Manley suggested Ottawa might do just that after the dust has settled. "There's an old saying among lawyers, that hard cases make bad law," said Mr. Manley. "This is something we will want to look at in broader circumstances."

But Russian experts think Canada will change its tune. "Diplomatic immunity is an old custom, and an inalienable attribute of a state's sovereignty," says Igor Kuznetsov, a legal expert at Moscow's Institute of International Relations, which trains Russian diplomats. "That was a very regrettable incident, and Russia is responsible for Knyazev's actions. But it's not a reason to change international law."

Immunity, he notes, is "an ancient custom codified in modern international law that serves all sides alike." According to the US State Department, immunity is designed to ensure diplomats can perform their duties with freedom, independence, and security. It is not a license to commit a crime.

Canada points to Georgi Maharadze, a Georgian diplomat who killed an American girl while driving drunk in Washington in 1997. In that case, Georgia acceded to US demands to lift immunity and Mr. Maharadze was sentenced to 21 years in prison.

The Russian press, for its part, has made much of a 1998 incident involving Douglas Kent, US consul-general in Vladivostok, who critically injured a Russian man while allegedly driving under the influence of alcohol. Mr. Kent invoked immunity, left Russia, and has never been prosecuted.

Mr. Kuznetsov says that in other incidents as well, Russia has always respected diplomatic immunity. "Canadians should remember that what goes around, comes around."

The controversy may be just starting, however. Knyazev remains a free man in Moscow, and Russian legal experts are unsure of how he could be investigated and tried in Moscow over a traffic accident that occurred thousands of miles away in a different legal environment. No one can think of any precedents.

"Drunk driving is not a crime in Russia," says Alexander Gofstein, a Moscow criminal lawyer. "The defendant will be held responsible only for the traffic rules he violated, and his supposed intoxication will be at most an aggravating factor."

Russia has a hard-drinking culture in which driving under the influence is considered a normal, if lamentable, event. The independent Center for Alcohol Policy in Moscow estimates that the average Russian man consumes more than 23 gallons of vodka annually, one of the world's highest rates.

"Our criminal code envisages a citizen being held accountable for crimes committed abroad," says Irina Maraguzova, professor of criminal law at Moscow's Institute of Comparative Legal Studies. "But Russian laws and judicial practices are different from those in Canada.

"I doubt our authorities would like to create the precedent of imprisoning a diplomat," she says. "I think the most [Knyazev] would get in a Russian court is a suspended sentence. It will just look too complex and murky a case to the judge."

(c) Copyright 2001. The Christian Science Publishing Society

Uncle Wally
29-10-2014, 17:33
You are seriously losing it. It _is_ very funny, as you just step right in and self-parody.

The cases referred to are not the case from 1998. You can tell because they happened in different years.






You mean it happens alot!

AstarD
29-10-2014, 17:40
You mean it happens alot!Yes, by diplomats from many different countries.

Korotky Gennady
29-10-2014, 17:50
What a language!

shadowy individuals
unspecified hardships
Life under constant surveillance
every conversation will be monitored and every movement followed
were believed to be behind
fabrication in retaliation
was followed almost everywhere he went in an aggressive, at times threatening way
ambassador himself frequently complained publicly about his treatment - so tender... poor Yorick...

And, of course, how they can omit...
(FSB), a successor to the Soviet KGB

Russia's Foreign Ministry declined to comment before this report was published - how to comment the clinical paranoia? :eh:

:verycool:

In my opinion FSB does any bad thing it can.

FatAndy
29-10-2014, 17:53
In my opinion FSB does any bad thing it can.
:agree: And every f@cking second! Especially for good US (state power, diplomats etc). ;)

Armoured
29-10-2014, 17:55
Russian diplomats also enjoy immunity and get off when they kill people in traffic accidents.
....
"I doubt our authorities would like to create the precedent of imprisoning a diplomat," she says. "I think the most [Knyazev] would get in a Russian court is a suspended sentence. It will just look too complex and murky a case to the judge."

Actually I know for a fact that Knyazev was prosecuted in Russia and got a fairly serious sentence - as far as I'm aware he served his time.

On this case, despite the noise, I think the Russian side acted admirably. They insisted on diplomatic immunity - as is their right - but prosecuted him at home.

I won't make parallels with the Vladivostok case as I don't know anything about it - but in the one parallel mentioned in these articles, I don't believe there was any payment by the Russian government to the family or civil action/liability. But they did prosecute the guy on a criminal statute.

Armoured
29-10-2014, 17:57
You mean it happens alot!

No, I'm saying there's a difference between a traffic violation (unspecified) and someone being seriously injured.

TolkoRaz
29-10-2014, 18:13
Traffic Violations might also refer to Diplomats entering 'Closed Areas / Zones'! ;)

TolkoRaz
29-10-2014, 18:15
In my opinion FSB does any bad thing it can.

Sanochka would agree, but most of us would not agree! :book:

The FSB are our lowly paid protectors! :10293:

Korotky Gennady
29-10-2014, 19:55
Sanochka would agree, but most of us would not agree! :book:

The FSB are our lowly paid protectors! :10293:

And who are you... under FSB's wardship ? :))))

JanC
29-10-2014, 20:10
The FSB are our lowly paid protectors! :10293:

Once they graduate from the FSB and go into "government" the pay doesn't seem to be so bad.