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Russian Lad
15-10-2014, 19:02
I think FatAndy may enjoy reading this, hohoho:
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/10/13/meet-ukraines-legend-the-cyborgs-defending-donetsk-airport/

Russian Lad
16-10-2014, 05:40
Fresh footage from Lugansk, no Ukrs in sight, three people wounded:

Разборка со стрельбой между террористами. Трое раненых. - YouTube

Russian Lad
23-10-2014, 22:25
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/23/us-ukraine-crisis-tanks-exclusive-idUSKCN0IC1GE20141023

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 23:40
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/23/us-ukraine-crisis-tanks-exclusive-idUSKCN0IC1GE20141023



Yeah that's all Ukraine ever had was Russian tanks.

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 00:37
He never lost it.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-23/has-putin-already-won-in-ukraine-sure-looks-that-way?campaign_id=yhoo

George Soros. The Hungarian-born billionaire investor says Putin has outmaneuvered Western governments in the conflict, taking advantage of their desire to avoid military confrontation with Russia. Putins Russia has proved to be in some ways superior to the European Unionmore flexible, and constantly springing surprises, Soros writes in a forthcoming article for the New York Review of Books. The U.S., Soros says, has offered Ukraine a faade of support with little substance behind it, as the country skids toward economic collapse.


So funny! "their desire to avoid military confrontation" It's still there, their appetite for destruction will never fade.


Guns N' Roses - Welcome To The Jungle - YouTube

Russian Lad
24-10-2014, 10:53
It never had some of the modifications... The evidence is overwhealming now.

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 11:08
It never had some of the modifications... The evidence is overwhealming now.


Overwhealming, no. Giving to us by the CIA news, yes.

Russian Lad
24-10-2014, 14:20
Overwhealming, no. Giving to us by the CIA news, yes.

You know, people talk, especially when they get drunk. So, I get a lot from this "news channel" as well. It may sound weird to you, but these sources confirm what "CIA news" tell us.

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 14:30
You know, people talk, especially when they get drunk. So, I get a lot from this "news channel" as well. It may sound weird to you, but these sources confirm what "CIA news" tell us.



Look we all know what's going on, just some of us think Russia is doing the right thing.

Russian Lad
24-10-2014, 14:32
Look we all know what's going on, just some of us think Russia is doing the right thing.

If you know it, stop fooling around pretending you don't know it then - it is a bit childish. I know it is the official Russian policy now (leading to nowhere), but we are adults here and can afford calling a spade a spade. Other than that, you are entitled to your opinion, of course. :emote_popcorn:
The hymn of Novorossiya:))))). Funny and weird sh't. But some of you will enjoy it I guess.
˜.С‚€елков и ž.Ца€ев на п€езен‚а†ии “имна Ново€оссии о‚ ’ики Ц‹гановой. (Ÿолная ве€сия) - YouTube

To me it sounds like this (1984, Orwell):
Oceania anthem "Oceania, 'Tis for Thee" - YouTube

Armoured
24-10-2014, 14:49
Look we all know what's going on, just some of us think Russia is doing the right thing.

"It wasn't us, we didn't do it, we weren't involved, those weren't our tanks, even if it was us we had a good reason, oh, and here's the explanation for why what we didn't do and weren't involved in was not illegal anyway."

This is now pretty much an official doctrine.

FatAndy
24-10-2014, 17:16
For RL, by his special request ;) :

Ук€аине жопа - YouTube


This is now pretty much an official doctrine.
;) and this is good and correct.

Russian Lad
24-10-2014, 17:26
For RL, by his special request :

Not sure why Russia is supposed to dance, Euro is 53 already. What the Russians should be happy about? The rising prices? :5387:

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 18:08
"It wasn't us, we didn't do it, we weren't involved, those weren't our tanks, even if it was us we had a good reason, oh, and here's the explanation for why what we didn't do and weren't involved in was not illegal anyway."

This is now pretty much an official doctrine.

Which is good and correct when the US tries to take over a country so close.

Russian Lad
24-10-2014, 18:18
Russians should be proud to be Russian. Proud that they can not be told what to do by any other country.

Just as the North Koreans and the Zimbabweans? Sorry, but it is not my idea of a great proud nation. Let's see if most Russians are ready to pay for their illusions from their own pockets. I strongly doubt it.
Personally I may even gain from this situation, unless it swerves out of control altogether. However, I would prefer a more peaceful and balanced way forward. I am tired of corpses and blood.

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 18:22
Just as the North Koreans and the Zimbabweans? Sorry, but it is not my idea of a great proud nation.


It still a free country be proud of whatever you want.
Just let the rest of your country men be proud of what they want too.

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 18:24
Just as the North Koreans and the Zimbabweans? Sorry, but it is not my idea of a great proud nation.
Personally I may even gain from this situation, unless it swerves out of control altogether. However, I would prefer a more peaceful and balanced way forward. I am tired of corpses and blood.

Yes me too and I keep wondering when the US will stop piling them up.

Russian Lad
24-10-2014, 18:29
and I keep wondering when the US will stop piling them up.

I didn't see any US soldiers in FatAndy's clip. Didn't we agree to call a spade a spade? I thought you have improved honesty-wise.


Just let the rest of your country men be proud of what they want too.

Sure, they can be proud of whatever they want. But it will be interesting to see the reaction of most of them to their increasing poverty. Give it 1-2 years, maybe even less. At a certain point an average Ukrainian will be more prosperous than an average Russian, I am 100% sure of this now. Then the real fun begins.

Fantastika
25-10-2014, 17:31
But it will be interesting to see the reaction of most of them to their increasing poverty. Give it 1-2 years, maybe even less. At a certain point an average Ukrainian will be more prosperous than an average Russian, I am 100% sure of this now.

You sound optimistic. :) Ukraine has been on welfare. The average gas bill is $2 month? Do you know how hard it is to get someone off welfare and get them to work? Consider in America, the young man is getting money, every month, from his grandmother for years, and then Grandma passes on, and his money is cut off. It's a terrible thing. He is so angry at everyone, where is my money?! He hasn't learned to exchange work for money. He thinks he should get money and not have to do anything in return, in exchange.

Now you have in Ukraine, "Grandma Russia" is no longer providing money, and Ukraine is angry - they demand free food from Poland, free aid from EU, free gas from Russia, free weapons from NATO, they have violent reaction, they start war in Donbass. And the ones in power are still corrupt, they take money and do nothing in exchange.

I hope Ukraine is someday prosperous, but they haven't learned basic principle of capitalism - exchange of money for work, or for production.

Russian Lad
26-10-2014, 01:40
You sound optimistic. Ukraine has been on welfare. The average gas bill is $2 month? Do you know how hard it is to get someone off welfare and get them to work? Consider in America, the young man is getting money, every month, from his grandmother for years, and then Grandma passes on, and his money is cut off. It's a terrible thing. He is so angry at everyone, where is my money?! He hasn't learned to exchange work for money. He thinks he should get money and not have to do anything in return, in exchange.

Now you have in Ukraine, "Grandma Russia" is no longer providing money, and Ukraine is angry - they demand free food from Poland, free aid from EU, free gas from Russia, free weapons from NATO, they have violent reaction, they start war in Donbass. And the ones in power are still corrupt, they take money and do nothing in exchange.

I hope Ukraine is someday prosperous, but they haven't learned basic principle of capitalism - exchange of money for work, or for production.

The Russian influence was like a chain on the legs of Ukraine. Now that they are free they will be transformed. The near history will show who was right. Give it 3-5 years - my bet is an average Russian will be more poor by this time than an average Ukrainian. I doubt they will become as effective and prosperous as Germany any time soon, but they will surely move closer to Poland. They are great and brave people, on the whole.
The Russians are great people too - but we need to get rid of our legacy - it is like a ghost haunting us. We need to bury Lenin, both physically and mentally - we are doomed till then.

FatAndy
26-10-2014, 10:34
Ukraine has implemented all EU requirements and joined EU.
Two old mates have met after a long period of time.
- Well, how is life, Petro?
- Bad, Gryts'ko... no job here for me, my wife washes floors in Poland, my daughter is the prostitute in France, my son has married somewhat German guy...
- Petro, I know - it is all the guilty of damned Moskali !!!
- ???
- They told us - don't do it! They knew we'll do the opposite!!!

:)

Russian Lad
26-10-2014, 11:31
Ukraine has implemented all EU requirements and joined EU.
Two old mates have met after a long period of time.
- Well, how is life, Petro?
- Bad, Gryts'ko... no job here for me, my wife washes floors in Poland, my daughter is the prostitute in France, my son has married somewhat German guy...
- Petro, I know - it is all the guilty of damned Moskali !!!
- ???
- They told us - don't do it! They knew we'll do the opposite!!!

Bayan.:) Just a year ago I didn't understand their aspirations, was surprised and dismayed by their lack of friendliness towards Russia. Well, now I understand their motives and have to say they are absolutely right, sad but true. I would keep as far away from the present Russia as possible if I was in their shoes too. We didn't leave them a choice. This is Russia talking to them (a lot of curse words, so careful viewing is advised):
žб€а‰ение œо‚о€ол‹ и “иви к ’СУ - YouTube

FatAndy
26-10-2014, 11:41
Of course bayan, bro. Sad but true, as you said and can confirm Bulgaria and Hungary.

FatAndy
26-10-2014, 17:05
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/26/10/2014/544cd6a9cbb20f217c45aecb - Rada elections are in the process in Ukraine. Totally ~20% of vote-able ppl voted.

Most active ones are in Kiev, Western and central areas of Ukraine, most inactive - on the East and in Odessa region (I guess the latter ones have already reconciled that the connection territory band RF-Crimea-Transnistria will go through them... :))

Uncle Wally
26-10-2014, 23:00
Fear and loathing as Ukraine's frontline city votes


There is nobody to vote for. We want nothing to do with these monsters in Kiev," the 41-year-old tells AFP.

Like most of her friends, she says she is boycotting the poll and proud of it.

"I'm against Kiev. I don't know what I want, but I don't want to be with them."

Mariupol is a town of divided loyalties sitting on the edge of fighting between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian rebels


http://news.yahoo.com/fear-loathing-ukraines-frontline-city-votes-172635438.html

TolkoRaz
26-10-2014, 23:18
Mariupol will be in the hands of the Pro-Russian separatists by the end of the year.

Russian Lad
27-10-2014, 02:21
Mariupol will be in the hands of the Pro-Russian separatists by the end of the year.

How much are you willing to bet on it? :D If it doesn't happen, we will not be able to call you a war expert anymore, will we?

Wally, your quotes are very selective, how about this one, from the same article?:


Retiree Valentina Pavlova voted for independence when the rebels held a hastily organised referendum here in May. Now she says she is sorry she did, although she is still voting for one of the more pro-Russian parties taking part in Sunday's parliamentary election.

"I regret going now (to the rebel referendum), because I look at what is happening and it's complete chaos," the pensioner said.

TolkoRaz
27-10-2014, 10:18
RusskiLad, call me what you wish, but I assess that the town / city will be a pro-Russian military objective as part of the intent to create a landlink / road to The Krim required for the resupply of the military and Russian population within The Krim.

Russian Lad
27-10-2014, 10:38
I am not worried at all about the intent to create a roadlink, it is required and will eventually be accomplished.

Eventually is not the same as the end of this year.:) Excess of self-confidence has ruined many frayers (I am not referring to you in particular with this term).
Andy, do you intend to be deleting like my every second post from now on?

FatAndy
27-10-2014, 10:59
Andy, do you intend to be deleting like my every second post from now on?
No, only off-topic ones. :11629: And, BTW, Tolik's answers on them. Nobody will leave offended.

Fantastika
27-10-2014, 11:35
AFP-Yahoo "News": Retiree Valentina Pavlova voted for independence when the rebels held a hastily organised referendum here in May. Now she says she is sorry she did, although she is still voting for one of the more pro-Russian parties taking part in Sunday's parliamentary election.



RL, there are no Pro-Russian parties running in this kangaroo "election." Petro dissolved the parliament, because, he said, there was too much pro-Russian opposition among the legislators. He has been ruling by decree. The new election, in which pro-Russian candidates are not allowed to run, is to ensure there are no pro-Russian legislators in the Parliament. The "election" is a farce. It's so Petro can say what he wants and get quick legislative approval. A mafia democracy.



The Russians are great people too - but we need to get rid of our legacy - it is like a ghost haunting us. We need to bury Lenin, both physically and mentally - we are doomed till then.

You're aware that Obama is not only embracing Lenin, he's having a tryst with him? (OK, bad simile!)

Russian Lad
27-10-2014, 11:41
Nobody will leave offended.

Nobody will go back home. :jester:


RL, there are no Pro-Russian parties running in this kangaroo "election." Petro dissolved the parliament, because, he said, there was too much pro-Russian opposition among the legislators. He has been ruling by decree. The new election, in which pro-Russian candidates are not allowed to run, is to ensure there are no pro-Russian legislators in the Parliament. The "election" is a farce. It's so Petro can say what he wants and get quick legislative approval. A mafia democracy.

Not sure where you get such news, even the Russian government has acknowledged the elections results as legal today. As to not many pro-Russians voted in, I can understand the people of Ukraine.

Fantastika
27-10-2014, 13:00
I was not disputing the results of the kangaroo "election." Pro-Russian candidates were kept off the ballot through intimidation, threats, bureaucratic hurdles, fear, etc.

King Petro dissolved the parliament because he decided they were not legitimately elected. I guess Ukraine's only "legitimate" election was the one he himself won. Not Yanaukovich's election, not the deputies of the parliament, only him.

The Fifth Column in the parliament consists of dozens of so-called peoples deputies. But they dont represent the interests of the people, who elected them, but the interests of some other people, the statement (Poroshenko's) said.

"most MPs took dictatorial decisions" (Poroshenko is being ironic?)

I suppose, in a democracy, you can just dismiss the legislature anytime you don't like what they do? That's called a "dictatorship", not a "democracy".

AstarD
27-10-2014, 13:03
I suppose, in a democracy, you can just dismiss the legislature anytime you don't like what they do? That's called a "dictatorship", not a "democracy".Well, yes. It does happen in acknowledged democracies. It has happened in France more than once.

FatAndy
27-10-2014, 13:06
Nobody will go back home. :jester:
Sure.

Russian Lad
27-10-2014, 13:11
Come on, Fantastika, no need to fret and whine after the fait accomplit.:) Let's congratulate the Ukrainian people with the new Rada and wish the country success, territorial integrity and prosperity. As I understand, the communists didn't pass the election threshold - that's great news. :emote_popcorn:

Armoured
27-10-2014, 15:01
I guess Ukraine's only "legitimate" election was the one he himself won. Not Yanaukovich's election, not the deputies of the parliament, only him.
...
I suppose, in a democracy, you can just dismiss the legislature anytime you don't like what they do? That's called a "dictatorship", not a "democracy".

Actually the rules were straightforward and well known. If a government couldn't be formed in 30 days from the time the previous one resigned, Pres could call elections.

Government resigned in July. No coalition could be formed. 30 days later, Pres called an election.

A reasonably standard feature in many parliamentary or quasi-presidential systems (although every system has its own specifics).

In fact, Russia has similar provisions, articles 111 and 117 of the constitution:
http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-07.htm#111

Slightly different, of course, but basically inability to form a government with support of the Duma, or no-confidence votes.

TolkoRaz
27-10-2014, 15:10
The 2nd of November vote will be a more interesting result.

Armoured
27-10-2014, 15:15
The 2nd of November vote will be a more interesting result.

Honest question: are there really any doubts about what will happen in those?

AstarD
27-10-2014, 15:19
How is it more interesting for Russia or Russians?

TolkoRaz
27-10-2014, 15:48
Honest question: are there really any doubts about what will happen in those?

Same could and was asked about the 26 October votes!

Armoured
27-10-2014, 16:35
Same could and was asked about the 26 October votes!

That's nothing remotely like an answer, just a throw-away comment.

You say the 2nd is more interesting - so _why_?

TolkoRaz
27-10-2014, 16:44
That's nothing remotely like an answer, just a throw-away comment.

You say the 2nd is more interesting - so _why_?

Confirms self-determination and that the conflict has been worth it for the ethnic Russians residing in the area - they will have autonomy and will not be directly ruled by the UPA, EUKRO-Fascists & a motley collection of Kyiv Klowns!

The result will also justify VVPs moral support! ;)

FatAndy
27-10-2014, 17:04
collection of Kyiv Klowns!
Kiev, comrade, Kiev... :11629:

:emote_popcorn:

Russian Lad
27-10-2014, 17:08
Confirms self-determination and that the conflict has been worth it for the ethnic Russians residing in the area - they will have autonomy and will not be directly ruled by the UPA, EUKRO-Fascists & a motley collection of Kyiv Klowns!

The result will also justify VVPs moral support!

Even if they succeed in making LNR and DNR something similar to Transnistria, [off-topic cleared] I don't see any bright future for those Russian speakers living in this zone, neither short term, nor long term, if they live separately from Ukraine.

TolkoRaz
27-10-2014, 17:45
Kiev, comrade, Kiev... :11629:

:emote_popcorn:

;)

Дякую - Гарного Вам дня! :p

FatAndy
27-10-2014, 18:07
;) Дякую - Гарного Вам дня! :p
То й Вам не хворiти, добродiю. :agree:

Юрій Гуляєв - Києве мій - YouTube

Russian Lad
01-11-2014, 11:28
However, you are still here!

Just to practice my English and to gloat over the Dark Side failures when they occur (it has been a real feast lately). But I have no hope of proving anyone anything here using logic and data. Speaking about the failures, have you enjoyed this? A famous Russian actor shooting the HMG Utes in Donetsk with Press on his helmet.

Ÿо€е‡енков в доне†ком аэ€опƒ - YouTube

TolkoRaz
01-11-2014, 11:41
Good to see that ear protection was being worn! ;)

Of course he was wearing a 'Press' Helmet & Jacket, if not he might have been shot when outside and moving around the local area! :10310:

Uncle Wally
01-11-2014, 11:50
Just to practice my English and to gloat over the Dark Side failures when they occur (it has been a real feast lately). But I have no hope of proving anyone anything here using logic and data. Speaking about the failures, have you enjoyed this? A famous Russian actor shooting the HMG Utes in Donetsk with Press on his helmet.

Пореченков в донецком аэропорту - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsfnVkyceo0)



Was he shooting at nazi? It's one thing to take part in the battle dressed like that and another to try out a weapon for a photo op. He did look as brave there as he does in the movies.

Russian Lad
01-11-2014, 11:52
Of course he was wearing a 'Press' Helmet & Jacket, if not he might have been shot when outside and moving around the local area!

Sure-sure. But guess who will be blamed the next time a real journalist is killed wearing the same helmet in the same area. Even the Russian Union of Journalists has demanded his apology and explanations.


Was he shooting at nazi?

If the regular Ukrainian army are the nazi in the vocabulary of your clinic, then the answer is yes. Yes, he was a Russian in Ukraine shooting at Ukrainian soldiers' positions (at least I understand it this way from the instructions he is given and the title they gave this clip themselves) while wearing a blue press helmet. If you don't call it a major f'ck up - I do.
He has already claimed these were not real bullets and it was actually a salute.:) I guess we should all believe it. What is really sick about it, he sincerely doesn't see anything wrong in what he has done. That's what makes the Dark Side the Dark Side.

TolkoRaz
01-11-2014, 12:23
Sure-sure. But guess who will be blamed the next time a real journalist is killed wearing the same helmet in the same area. Even the Russian Union of Journalists has demanded his apology and explanations.



If the regular Ukrainian army are the nazi in the vocabulary of your clinic, then the answer is yes. Yes, he was a Russian in Ukraine shooting at Ukrainian soldiers' positions (at least I understand it this way from the instructions he is given and the title they gave this clip themselves) while wearing a blue press helmet. If you don't call it a major f'ck up - I do.
He has already claimed these were not real bullets and it was actually a salute.:) I guess we should all believe it. What is really sick about it, he sincerely doesn't see anything wrong in what he has done. That's what makes the Dark Side the Dark Side.

They were real bullets, that is clear to see! ;)

But, he was not firing at a UKR position! If they were, they could / would have received incoming fire and had no protection! Clearly, they are on a 'makeshift' range somewhere nice & safe!

Russian Lad
01-11-2014, 12:28
But, he was not firing at a UKR position! If they were, they could / would have received incoming fire and had no protection! Clearly, they are on a 'makeshift' range somewhere nice & safe!

This airport is huge, so I assume there are safe areas for both sides. The title says it is the Donetsk airport, I am not to believe the separatists now?
And even if he was firing blank rounds into the sky in an open field of camomiles and daisies, his wearing the Press helmet and being in Ukraine would still attract a lot of due criticism. All this combined - a solid f-up.
And his evident lies make it look even worse.

Russian Lad
02-11-2014, 11:20
By the way, did you watch this? That's the people you admire.

Донецк пьяная драка ополченцев ДНР - батальона Оплот (полная версия) 26.10.2014 - YouTube

Russian Lad
03-11-2014, 23:43
Somehow I got thinking about FatAndy when I was watching this Russian cartoon, Andy - 0.45-2.11 - special for you:):

Масяня. Эпизод 121. Будапешт - YouTube

TolkoRaz
04-11-2014, 20:05
Looks like we shall be seeing a resumption of major hostilities soon; both sides are conducting significant resupplies and moving heavy equipment into the zone.

Mariupol could be part of NovoRossiya sooner than I had expected!

FatAndy
04-11-2014, 20:56
I hope. As well as Herson, Nikolaev and Odessa :)

TolkoRaz
04-11-2014, 21:00
Did you see the 9K57 BM-22 (Uragan)? :eek:

Remington
04-11-2014, 21:19
I hope. As well as Herson, Nikolaev and Odessa :)

Why are you so excited about this? You want more deaths and destruction?

I already sent a complaint to Ezik since your post is in very poor taste, truly offensive, cruel and most important of all.. you should not be a moderator of this site.

There are Ukrainian members on this site and expats with Ukrainian spouses too. Geez. you didn't know that?!?!?!?

fenrir
04-11-2014, 22:37
Why are you so excited about this? You want more deaths and destruction?

I already sent a complaint to Ezik since your post is in very poor taste, truly offensive, cruel and most important of all.. you should not be a moderator of this site.

There are Ukrainian members on this site and expats with Ukrainian spouses too. Geez. you didn't know that?!?!?!?

Watch it. They'll ban YOU for hurting their feelings. On this site, it's okay to insult and wish violence and war on other nations, but if you do the same towards Russia.....

Remington
04-11-2014, 22:43
Watch it. They'll ban YOU for hurting their feelings. On this site, it's okay to insult and wish violence and war on other nations, but if you do the same towards Russia.....

That's fine for other members but not for moderators. They're supposed to keep peace on the forum otherwise they risk alienating forum members.

TolkoRaz
04-11-2014, 22:49
Where did FatAndy say anything other than that he hoped that Kherson, Nikolaev and Odessa would be part of NovoRossiya?

Remington
04-11-2014, 22:52
Where did FatAndy say anything other than that he hoped that Kherson, Nikolaev and Odessa would be part of NovoRossiya?

He was responding to your post but didn't quote your post. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out and he had make several posts in the past supporting pro-Russian rebels saying it was good. You can look it up.

TolkoRaz
04-11-2014, 22:55
He was responding to your post but didn't quote your post. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Oh! Well, Poroshenko has announced that he is sending in the troops, so what do you expect the populace to do! Give them roses, salt & bread?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29905014

The Tochka rockets are on the move - Poroshenko has already used those against residential areas!

Look, here they are on Kreshatik! ;)

Remington
04-11-2014, 23:05
Oh! Well, Poroshenko has announced that he is sending in the troops, so what do you expect the populace to do! Give them roses, salt & bread?

Russia was sending in special forces and heavy weapons into Ukraine. What do you expect Poroshenko to do? Sit by and do nothing while the rebels plan to bomb Mariupol and onward to Odessa? Who is the aggressor? People of Mariupol, Nikoleav, Kherson, and Odessa have no wish to join Novorussiya. I have family and friends in Nikolaev and they have NO WISHES to join Russia. Everything you've been hearing from Russian news are purely bs.


The Tochka rockets are on the move - Poroshenko has already used those against residential areas!

Do you have any evidences that Kiev used those missiles against civilians or is that what the Russian news told you? Let me remind you... who shot down the civilian aircraft?

Uncle Wally
04-11-2014, 23:26
Why are you so excited about this? You want more deaths and destruction?

I already sent a complaint to Ezik since your post is in very poor taste, truly offensive, cruel and most important of all.. you should not be a moderator of this site.

There are Ukrainian members on this site and expats with Ukrainian spouses too. Geez. you didn't know that?!?!?!?




Maybe because he was born in Ukraine. If you didn't notice there are Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians in Ukraine. Everybody there doesn't want to become a debt slave to the USA and their bankers. It is America that is causing all this not Russia. If the EU wanted to help Ukraine they would have done it 20 years ago but since Ukraine didn't want to sell out back then Ukraine and Russia had to suffer and will suffer again. Try to look at what is happening with an open mind. The EU and America made Ukraine suffer for so long when they could have done bizzness with them but choose not too. Why? Now all of a sudden they want to help. Be very careful if the American government wants to help you. If they are not sticking a gun in your face while telling they are "here to help" then they will soon be sending "humanitarian" bombs to your country. Some people are sick of the McD's formula of max profits and who care how much others have to suffer. Dig, cut, rape everything you can just to make more and more money for some guy you will never see because he could care less if you f%#ked off and died because he can just find some other sucker to take your place to keep the killing and his profits growing! Oh gee if I work hard enough maybe someday I can die without massive debt that will be passed on to my kids who will be in debt before they are born because America had to help the world, or help themselves to the world. Wake up, Russia is now fighting the greatest evil ever known and you want to cry because one guy with some power on a forum said something you didn't like. What do you do when America starts wars and kills hundreds of thousands of people for lies! For Nothing! Nothing! Those f*#king bastards that flew planes into the world trade center were from SAUDI ARABIA!!! not fu*cking Afghanistan!!!!! IRAQ had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and YOU sat there and said NOTHING! Do you remember what the world was like before 9/11?

Uncle Wally
04-11-2014, 23:40
Russia was sending in special forces and heavy weapons into Ukraine. What do you expect Poroshenko to do? Sit by and do nothing while the rebels plan to bomb Mariupol and onward to Odessa? Who is the aggressor? People of Mariupol, Nikoleav, Kherson, and Odessa have no wish to join Novorussiya. I have family and friends in Nikolaev and they have NO WISHES to join Russia. Everything you've been hearing from Russian news are purely bs.



Do you have any evidences that Kiev used those missiles against civilians or is that what the Russian news told you? Let me remind you... who shot down the civilian aircraft?


Yes tell us who shot down that plane! Like you know.


If I was Russian and somebody came want to tell me what to do and take my land, country from me I say "You come and try"


You prove to us who shot that plane down then you prove to us who flew planes into the world trade center. I bet you can't!

Uncle Wally
04-11-2014, 23:42
Watch it. They'll ban YOU for hurting their feelings. On this site, it's okay to insult and wish violence and war on other nations, but if you do the same towards Russia.....




What connection do you have to Russia, please tell us? Were you ever in your life even in Russia?

Remington
04-11-2014, 23:43
Maybe because he was born in Ukraine. If you didn't notice there are Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians in Ukraine. Everybody there doesn't want to become a debt slave to the USA and their bankers. It is America that is causing all this not Russia. If the EU wanted to help Ukraine they would have done it 20 years ago but since Ukraine didn't want to sell out back then Ukraine and Russia had to suffer and will suffer again. Try to look at what is happening with an open mind. The EU and America made Ukraine suffer for so long when they could have done bizzness with them but choose not too. Why? Now all of a sudden they want to help. Be very careful if the American government wants to help you. If they are not sticking a gun in your face while telling they are "here to help" then they will soon be sending "humanitarian" bombs to your country. Some people are sick of the McD's formula of max profits and who care how much others have to suffer. Dig, cut, rape everything you can just to make more and more money for some guy you will never see because he could care less if you f%#ked off and died because he can just find some other sucker to take your place to keep the killing and his profits growing! Oh gee if I work hard enough maybe someday I can die without massive debt that will be passed on to my kids who will be in debt before they are born because America had to help the world, or help themselves to the world. Wake up, Russia is now fighting the greatest evil ever known and you want to cry because one guy with some power on a forum said something you didn't like. What do you do when America starts wars and kills hundreds of thousands of people for lies! For Nothing! Nothing! Those f*#king bastards that flew planes into the world trade center were from SAUDI ARABIA!!! not fu*cking Afghanistan!!!!! IRAQ had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and YOU sat there and said NOTHING! Do you remember what the world was like before 9/11?

I don't ever recall making any posts on this forum supporting American policies. I don't agree with what US has done especially with war with Iraq and I don't agree with NATO expansionism. It doesn't give Russia the rights to invade Georgia or Ukraine or illegally annexing Crimea and breaking many international laws and norms. Russia was supposed to respect Ukraine's sovereignty but they didn't. Most important of all, Ukraine was never a threat to Russia! Yes Ukraine requested to join NATO but their request were denied to avoid aggravating Russia. Germany, France and US will not allow it.

So it's okay with you if Russia invades Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia? If its not enough then maybe Poland, Romania, Czech, Hungary, Slovakia or maybe east Germany?

TolkoRaz
04-11-2014, 23:44
Do you have any evidences that Kiev used those missiles against civilians or is that what the Russian news told you? Let me remind you... who shot down the civilian aircraft?

http://igcp.eu/hronika-prestupleniy/massive-explosion-occurs-donetsk?language=en

Uncle Wally
04-11-2014, 23:45
He was responding to your post but didn't quote your post. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out and he had make several posts in the past supporting pro-Russian rebels saying it was good. You can look it up.



And please tell us why FatAndy can not think what he wants?


There are two sides to this and you just think you are right? Maybe you are wrong, did you ever think of that?

Carl
04-11-2014, 23:52
Russia was sending in special forces and heavy weapons into Ukraine. What do you expect Poroshenko to do? Sit by and do nothing while the rebels plan to bomb Mariupol and onward to Odessa? Who is the aggressor? People of Mariupol, Nikoleav, Kherson, and Odessa have no wish to join Novorussiya. I have family and friends in Nikolaev and they have NO WISHES to join Russia. Everything you've been hearing from Russian news are purely bs.



Do you have any evidences that Kiev used those missiles against civilians or is that what the Russian news told you? Let me remind you... who shot down the civilian aircraft?

You have to remember, Tolka's lively hood depends on conflict. No conflick, no earnings. The more conflict the better for him. It's in his interest to advocate for conflict. Peace is a deadend job for him. The life of a soldier of fortune..

TolkoRaz
04-11-2014, 23:53
You have to remember, Tolka's lively hood depends on conflict. No conflick, no earnings. The more conflict the better for him. It's in his interest to advocate for conflict. Peace is a deadend job for him. The life of a soldier of fortune..

War can be a dead-end job too! ;)

Remington
04-11-2014, 23:54
http://igcp.eu/hronika-prestupleniy/massive-explosion-occurs-donetsk?language=en

No reported deaths or injuries and nobody knows which weapons was used. The explosion was at chemical warehouse for defense. It's not residential housing or complex.

Carl
04-11-2014, 23:56
War can be a dead-end job too! ;)

As it should be.

TolkoRaz
04-11-2014, 23:56
No reported deaths or injuries and nobody knows which weapons was used. The explosion was at chemical warehouse for defense. It's not residential housing or complex.

That is just one link, and it does report that houses were damaged and that the locals believe that it was a Tochka! The UKR deployed them, that is generally accepted. I am equally sure that they have used them along with GRAD 122mm rockets.

Remington
04-11-2014, 23:57
There are two sides to this and you just think you are right? Maybe you are wrong, did you ever think of that?

Do you have friends or relatives in Ukraine? Do you actually know what's going on in there? I've been to Ukraine many times in the last 8 years and I used to live and work there.

Remington
05-11-2014, 00:00
That is just one link, and it does report that houses were damaged and that the locals believe that it was a Tochka! The UKR deployed them, that is generally accepted. I am equally sure that they have used them along with GRAD 122mm rockets.

The locals believed it was tochka but NOT confirmed. It also said "According to another version, it was not a Tochka-U rocket, but rather a projectile or bomb hit the warehouse". Believe whatever you want but I think Kiev put that factory out of commission so it can't be used against Ukrainian forces or civilians by the rebels.

Uncle Wally
05-11-2014, 00:04
I don't ever recall making any posts on this forum supporting American policies. I don't agree with what US has done especially with war with Iraq and I don't agree with NATO expansionism. It doesn't give Russia the rights to invade Georgia or Ukraine or illegally annexing Crimea and breaking many international laws and norms. Russia was supposed to respect Ukraine's sovereignty but they didn't. Most important of all, Ukraine was never a threat to Russia! Yes Ukraine requested to join NATO but their request were denied to avoid aggravating Russia. Germany, France and US will not allow it.

So it's okay with you if Russia invades Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia? If its not enough then maybe Poland, Romania, Czech, Hungary, Slovakia or maybe east Germany?

First Russia did not "invade" Ukraine. They might be helping some people in Ukraine who didn't agree with their government but Russia never "invaded" Ukraine, not yet anyway. Russia will not invade Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia. That is just scare tactics that you are being told so you will go along with America's push to start another war. Terrorist are everywhere but you are still more likely to be shot by a policeman in America than killed by any terrorist that was trained, financed and armed by America!

Don't you even lie about Georgia. Russia could have taken it in a few days but only went in because Georgia started killing Russian peace keepers and bombing people's homes to terrorize them. You try to prove that Georgia was not at fault.


Crimea, who voted in 1953 to become part of Ukraine? Nobody! Did anybody ask the people in Crimea if they wanted to be part of Ukraine? No. The mistake happened in 1991, that is when Crimea should have come back to Russia. It was part of Russia and will always be part of Russia, you just come and try to take it!

Uncle Wally
05-11-2014, 00:09
You have to remember, Tolka's lively hood depends on conflict. No conflick, no earnings. The more conflict the better for him. It's in his interest to advocate for conflict. Peace is a deadend job for him. The life of a soldier of fortune..





American thinking if I ever heard it. I think he would much rather be a male stripper. But if America is going to go around killing.

You seem to to be doing nothing about it.

Uncle Wally
05-11-2014, 00:13
Do you have friends or relatives in Ukraine? Do you actually know what's going on in there? I've been to Ukraine many times in the last 8 years and I used to live and work there.




I have a friend who's mother inlaw was living in the center of Kiev about 100 meters from where the protest first started. She left when bullets started hitting her windows.

Remington
05-11-2014, 01:03
First Russia did not "invade" Ukraine. They might be helping some people in Ukraine who didn't agree with their government but Russia never "invaded" Ukraine, not yet anyway. Russia will not invade Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia.

Doesn't matter... Russia meddled into Ukraine's sovereignty by sending in their troops. Majority of the population did not want to join Russia but they were forced to by illegal election or referendum. If they want a legitimate election or referendum then should have international monitors but that didn't happen so everything was rigged to make it look legitimate.


Don't you even lie about Georgia. Russia could have taken it in a few days but only went in because Georgia started killing Russian peace keepers and bombing people's homes to terrorize them. You try to prove that Georgia was not at fault.

I didn't lie about Georgia. It was the secessionists who attacked Georgian forces first which forced Georgian to respond. Therefore, Russia responded by sending in Russian troops. I call that meddling in Georgia's internal affairs.


Crimea, who voted in 1953 to become part of Ukraine? Nobody! Did anybody ask the people in Crimea if they wanted to be part of Ukraine? No. The mistake happened in 1991, that is when Crimea should have come back to Russia. It was part of Russia and will always be part of Russia, you just come and try to take it!

What happened in 1954 is irrelevant as the country was under USSR iron-rule and Moscow made the decision to return Crimea to Ukraine. Its like Virginia taking back West Virginia even they seceded almost 150 years ago. Actually Crimea and southern Ukraine belongs to Turkey or Ottoman Empire but will Turkey try to take it back and restore its glorious empire?

Here from Wikipedia... Crimea did vote to remain part of Ukraine after the dissolution of USSR.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, Crimea became part of the newly independent Ukraine. Independence was supported by a referendum in all regions of Ukrainian SSR, including Crimea.[30] 54% of the Crimean voters supported independence with a 60% turnout (in Sevastopol 57% supported independence).[31] The percentage of the total Crimean electorate that had voted for Ukrainian independence in the referendum was 37%.[32] In 1994, the legal status of Crimea as part of Ukraine was backed up by Russia, who pledged to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in a memorandum signed in 1994, also signed by the US and UK.[33][34]

On 19 May, Crimea agreed to remain as part of Ukraine and annulled their proclamation of self-government.

History of Crimea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Remington
05-11-2014, 01:11
I have a friend who's mother inlaw was living in the center of Kiev about 100 meters from where the protest first started. She left when bullets started hitting her windows.

So? Have you lived or worked in Ukraine? I worked and lived in Kiev and Nikolaev.

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 01:55
Doubt the hostilities will resume this time in earnest. If they do, the Russian economy will be completely devastated in the matter of a few months. No one can be THAT stupid. I may be wrong, of course.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 09:51
Why are you so excited about this? You want more deaths and destruction?

I already sent a complaint to Ezik since your post is in very poor taste, truly offensive, cruel and most important of all.. you should not be a moderator of this site.

There are Ukrainian members on this site and expats with Ukrainian spouses too. Geez. you didn't know that?!?!?!?
I'm not excited, I just hope they will be in Novorossiya. And it will be good and correct. No, I don't want deaths and destruction, but I'm not a correct addressee for your noble rage. Write to Poroshenko, Avakov, Yatsenyuk and other Ukronazists ruling in Kiev. It's them who started artillery usage in Donbass.

You may write compliants or praises everywhere, including UN, DoS, СНБО, FSB or the World League of Sexual Reforms, your right and left ;)


Watch it. They'll ban YOU for hurting their feelings. On this site, it's okay to insult and wish violence and war on other nations, but if you do the same towards Russia.....
You learn quickly, and it is good ;). Tell me where those mythic "they" insult and wish violence and war to "other nations" please. :)


Did you see the 9K57 BM-22 (Uragan)? :eek:
Yes, but it's not so effective in cities - too much damage for buildings and infrastructure, not speaking about civil population. РСЗО are more suitable for crowds of armoured vehicles in open steppe, like under Debal'tsevo, Ilovaysk and Amvrosievka.


Doubt the hostilities will resume this time in earnest. If they do, the Russian economy will be completely devastated in the matter of a few months. No one can be THAT stupid. I may be wrong, of course.
No doubts Ukronazists will be that "stupid", they have no choice - to keep their armed bands busy.

fenrir
05-11-2014, 11:48
I'm not excited, I just hope they will be in Novorossiya. And it will be good and correct. No, I don't want deaths and destruction, but I'm not a correct addressee for your noble rage. Write to Poroshenko, Avakov, Yatsenyuk and other Ukronazists ruling in Kiev. It's them who started artillery usage in Donbass.

You may write compliants or praises everywhere, including UN, DoS, СНБО, FSB or the World League of Sexual Reforms, your right and left ;)


You learn quickly, and it is good ;). Tell me where those mythic "they" insult and wish violence and war to "other nations" please. :)


Yes, but it's not so effective in cities - too much damage for buildings and infrastructure, not speaking about civil population. РСЗО are more suitable for crowds of armoured vehicles in open steppe, like under Debal'tsevo, Ilovaysk and Amvrosievka.

You and the others on this site who think like you. You know those cities and territories can only be gotten by war and violence.


What connection do you have to Russia, please tell us? Were you ever in your life even in Russia?

I lived in Moscow for 5 years, have been married to a native Moscovite for 12.5 years and, until this situation arose, flew back to Moscow once or twice a year to visit the inlaws, other relatives and friends.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 12:34
You and the others on this site who think like you. You know those cities and territories can only be gotten by war and violence.
What - me and the others? :suspect:

It's you told, not me. :) And yes, you're right - Ukronazists have started war and violence, catching cities and territories. Very strange indeed that they've got an effective reply. Unexpectedly.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 13:00
http://www.u-f.ru/News/u198/2014/11/04/693024

New scandal between RF and Ukraine... :D

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/crimean-phwoar-meet-busty-russian-4560015

Remington
05-11-2014, 13:03
I'm not excited, I just hope they will be in Novorossiya. And it will be good and correct. No, I don't want deaths and destruction, but I'm not a correct addressee for your noble rage. Write to Poroshenko, Avakov, Yatsenyuk and other Ukronazists ruling in Kiev. It's them who started artillery usage in Donbass.

Oh geez. Why don't you go down to Nikolaev, Odessa, Kherson and yell Novorossiya in the city center. I dare you go ahead and try. I bet you will be beaten up to plums in no time. You are totally clueless since you never lived or worked in Ukraine! Lenin statue in Nikolaev city center was torn down not long ago and what does that tells you? People of Nikolaev have no love for Russia or Novorossiya!

You're totally wrong... its was the Russians who invaded Crimea in the first place. Everything was becoming calm before all of the Crimea mess started. Rebels in Donbass or more accurately Dumbass started attacking government buildings and Ukrainian armed forces. Russia armed the rebels and that's okay with you. You say its all good while many people die.

If Putin didn't meddle in Ukrainian's internal affairs then none of this would happen and everything will return to normal with new elections and new government. There are Chechen mercenaries running around in Donbass right now and I know few people living there are scared shitless of them. Some of my friends from Luhansk and Donetsk already left for Kiev or western Ukraine. Many old people stayed behind because they have no where else to go.

What's more appalling is that you're a moderator on this forum who is advocating for violence. If you're going to be like that then I want nothing to do with this forum.

Carl
05-11-2014, 13:05
And yes, you're right - Ukronazists have started war and violence, catching cities and territories.

How the hell can you 'catch' your own cities and territories?

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 13:28
Oh geez. Why don't you go down to Nikolaev, Odessa, Kherson and yell Novorossiya in the city center.
OK, does it mean you agree about Mariupol'?


You are totally clueless since you never lived or worked in Ukraine!
:)


Lenin statue in Nikolaev city center was torn down not long ago and what does that tells you?
That people who did it are either mentally disabled (i.e. clinical idiots) or just provocateurs. :)


People of Nikolaev have no love for Russia or Novorossiya!
Nobody asks for love from the people fooled by Ukropropaganda. :)


You're totally wrong...
:agree:


Some of my friends from Luhansk and Donetsk already left for Kiev or western Ukraine.
It's not comfortable under artillery fire, I understand them.

What the rest of your friends from Lugansk and Donetsk did - they left for RF? Or where?


What's more appalling is that you're a moderator on this forum who is advocating for violence.
I'm strictly against violence. Especially violence of Ukronazists, who started all this bardak trying to catch and keep the power.


If you're going to be like that then I want nothing to do with this forum.
You're living in the country of freedom. Do as you wish.


How the hell can you 'catch' your own cities and territories?
It's Ukronazists think they're their own. People living there think different. And they will reply to the attempts of Ukronazists.

Probably you know Poroshenko has put the document recalling special conditions for self-govt at Donb**** to SNBO, and Ukronazist Lyashko entered Rada with it. So who is going to escalate violence and start the new war?

Carl
05-11-2014, 13:33
People living there think different. And they will reply to the attempts of Ukronazists.

People living there?! Or maybe you mean the people shipped in from Russia?

Carl
05-11-2014, 13:35
OK, does it mean you agree about Mariupol'?


:)


That people who did it are either mentally disabled (i.e. clinical idiots) or just provocateurs. :)


Nobody asks for love from the people fooled by Ukropropaganda. :)


:agree:


It's not comfortable under artillery fire, I understand them.

What the rest of your friends from Lugansk and Donetsk did - they left for RF? Or where?


I'm strictly against violence. Especially violence of Ukronazists, who started all this bardak trying to catch and keep the power.


You're living in the country of freedom. Do as you wish.


It's Ukronazists think they're their own. People living there think different. And they will reply to the attempts of Ukronazists.

Probably you know Poroshenko has put the document recalling special conditions for self-govt at Donb**** to SNBO, and Ukronazist Lyashko entered Rada with it. So who is going to escalate violence and start the new war?

Are you starting to believe your own lies? Or is the pay really that good? Do they pay in Euro?

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 13:36
People living there?!
Yes.


Or maybe you mean the people shipped in from Russia?
If you mean volunteers who are RF citizens, they will help of course.:coffee:

Remington
05-11-2014, 13:37
Probably you know Poroshenko has put the document recalling special conditions for self-govt at Donb**** to SNBO, and Ukronazist Lyashko entered Rada with it. So who is going to escalate violence and start the new war?

Whatever! I'm done with this forum you nitwit! Adios!

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 13:44
Are you starting to believe your own lies?
No, :nono: the TruthЪ, only TruthЪ, nothing besides TruthЪ (but maybe not all the TruthЪ) ;)


Or is the pay really that good?
Oh, you're real Western guy, everything measure by money... ;)


Do they pay in Euro?
No, Swiss Fr.


Whatever! I'm done with this forum you nitwit! Adios!
What a pleasant and polite guy you are. Have a nice time, 5 days off.

Carl
05-11-2014, 13:48
No, :nono: the TruthЪ, only TruthЪ, nothing besides TruthЪ (but maybe not all the TruthЪ) ;)


Oh, you're real Western guy, everything measure by money... ;)


No, Swiss Fr.

You are the perfect minion for this regime.. Believe everything they tell you, and regergitate at every opportunity.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 13:52
You are the perfect minion for this regime..
Damned, bloody, oppressive regime, comrade! :respect:


Believe everything they tell you, and regergitate at every opportunity.
For sure, comrade, and you envy in silence ;)

Pls return to the topic. :whisper:

Carl
05-11-2014, 14:03
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zHxPZlH7Kh0

Letting the people know.. Bow-down to the new masters!!
Yeah..well, enjoy that Andy.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 14:14
Letting the people know.. Bow-down to the new masters!!
Yeah..well, enjoy that Andy.
Selective extermination ((C) by Russian Lad) is the next! :celebrate:

Carl
05-11-2014, 14:19
Selective extermination ((C) by Russian Lad) is the next! :celebrate:

Yes, I'm sure that would please you very much.
You seem the type that enjoys repression and has little tolerance for others with differing opinions than your own.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 14:21
Yes, I'm sure that would please you very much.
The most task it would please you, comrade! ;)

Carl
05-11-2014, 14:29
The most task it would please you, comrade! ;)

Your English fails you here moderator. You statement is not understandable.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 14:47
Your English fails you here moderator. You statement is not understandable.
My bad. So much excuses. I hope that you'll like that selective extermination, as same as me. Is it understandable?

Carl
05-11-2014, 14:52
My bad. So much excuses. I hope that you'll like that selective extermination, as same as me. Is it understandable?

Nope. Not my kind of enjoyment.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 15:02
Nope. Not my kind of enjoyment.
It's up to you - I sincerely hope you're living in a country of freedom and can freely select a subject of enjoy.

Carl
05-11-2014, 15:12
It's up to you - I sincerely hope you're living in a country of freedom and can freely select a subject of enjoy.

Yes, I no longer live in Russia, but that decanant EU, so I have all the freedoms I would expect from a free state.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 15:16
so I have all the freedoms I would expect from a free state.
And this is good and correct, comrade. Enjoy.

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 15:45
I'm not excited, I just hope they will be in Novorossiya. And it will be good and correct. No, I don't want deaths and destruction, but I'm not a correct addressee for your noble rage. Write to Poroshenko, Avakov, Yatsenyuk and other Ukronazists ruling in Kiev. It's them who started artillery usage in Donbass.

You may write compliants or praises everywhere, including UN, DoS, СНБО, FSB or the World League of Sexual Reforms, your right and left

I have to repeat my question i asked the other day - since according to you they are nazi and fascists, surely the countries and their leaders who support them (the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, France, the Great Britain, Italy, Norway, Sweden, etc. - over 100 countries) are also nazi and fascists? I mean, it cannot be otherwise. [offtopic] Your position has so many faults and gaping holes, it is not even interesting to criticize it. I always feel compassion for gullible people. You have to admit to yourself it is kind of crazy - understanding you have a problem is the first step to healing.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 16:03
I have to repeat my question i asked the other day - since according to you they are nazi and fascists, surely the countries and their leaders who support them (the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, France, the Great Britain, Italy, Norway, Sweden, etc. - over 100 countries) are also nazi and fascists?
I'd say no, they just use Ukronazists. As you use a fork and a knife with your steak.


Your position has so many faults and gaping holes, it is not even interesting to criticize it.
You're living in the country of freedom, nobody can force you. :verycool:


You have to admit to yourself it is kind of crazy - understanding you have a problem is the first step to healing.

I have no problems. Have you? :emote_popcorn:

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 16:10
Yes, I have a problem. You keep deleting and doctoring my posts every day. Are they so dangerous in your mind? I mean, it takes a certain effort on your part to carry out this frantic, flagitious and meaningless deleting activity on a daily basis. You justify it by "it is off-topic", but we digress quite often, including you, so this fugacious explanation is not credible.
You are simply scared of my thoughts and questions - admit it.


I'd say no, they just use Ukronazists. As you use a fork and a knife with your steak.

I hardly imagine any Canadians or Australians or Norwegians having an acute desire to kill Russian speakers in Donbass using your "ukronazi" - I didn't notice such aspirations in them before, not sure what makes you think they have nothing better or more sane to do and to aspire for.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 16:18
Yes, I have a problem. You keep deleting my posts every day. Are they so dangerous in your mind?
No, they're just off-topic.


I mean, it takes a certain effort
Yes. :agree:


You are simply scared of my thoughts and questions - admit it.
I'm in a rage. :cussing:


I hardly imagine
My condolences. Work hard on your imagination. :)

JanC
05-11-2014, 16:18
No, they're just off-topic.

If that's the issue, what are all those Obama and evil banker posts still doing in topics about Russia? :confused:

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 16:56
If that's the issue, what are all those Obama and evil banker posts still doing in topics about Russia? :confused:

Don't be confused, I'll explain.

Obama is the head of geopolitical foe of Russia, evil bankers try to suffocate Motherland. Everything is in place. :idea:

Carl
05-11-2014, 17:03
Don't be confused, I'll explain.

Obama is the head of geopolitical foe of Russia, evil bankers try to suffocate Motherland. Everything is in place. :idea:

Your condescending tone to posters who's opinions you don't agree with is not becoming moderator. Perhaps you need some lessons from your predecessors.
It's no wonder this site is losing members..you've hijacked the site to suit your own agenda.

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 17:10
you've hijacked the site to suit your own agenda.

I agree with that. A nefarious agenda.:)

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 17:12
Your condescending tone
Where? :suspect:
If you mean "don't be confused" - the smile icon in your previous post is "Confused" ;)

Armoured
05-11-2014, 17:14
Obama is the head of geopolitical foe of Russia, evil bankers try to suffocate Motherland. Everything is in place. :idea:

Ah. So basically expat.ru is another arm of the propaganda hydra. Perhaps a statement of this editorial policy right up front would be called for?

Seriously, the editorial antics of this site for everything off-topic as long as anti-West / pro-Gold and other random lunacy, while deleting others, are atrocious.

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 17:17
Seriously, the editorial antics of this site for everything off-topic as long as anti-West / pro-Gold and other random lunacy, while deleting others, are atrocious.

It used to be ok before the take-over by Andy.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 17:18
Ah. So basically expat.ru is another arm of the propaganda hydra.
Everything is propaganda in the world, comrade.


Seriously, the editorial antics of this site for everything off-topic as long as anti-West / pro-Gold and other random lunacy, while deleting others, are atrocious.
Report what you consider off-topic, with Report button (upper right corner, the triangle with exclamation point).

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 17:21
Everything is propaganda in the world, comrade.

In your world you mean? You are just a minuscule part of the vast Universe, the world existed before you came to it, it will surely manage somehow after you are gone. And you cannot be the spokesperson for the whole world, even on the site you have hijacked.
I guess you need to bear this in mind.:)

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 17:25
In your world you mean?
In our common world, comrade.


You are just a minuscule part of the vast Universe, the world existed before you came to it, it will surely manage somehow after you are gone.
For sure, comrade, as same as you.


And you cannot be the spokesperson for the whole world
I'm not pretending to be a spokesperson. I'm describing the world. ;)

JanC
05-11-2014, 17:32
Everything is propaganda in the world, comrade.

So either let it all slide, or delete all of it. You shouldn't be deciding which propaganda is correct and which isn't.

At least pretend to be moderately objective in your task of...moderating.

Otherwise you'll just be left with a circlejerk on this free service while the rest has moved on to another.

Armoured
05-11-2014, 17:40
Everything is propaganda in the world, comrade.

Nice glib and content-free response.

But as a moderator, when you are choosing _one_ side of a discussion for promotion, it is propaganda, and you are a tool of that propaganda.


Report what you consider off-topic, with Report button (upper right corner, the triangle with exclamation point).

Are you saying that you _only_ delete off-topic when requested by others? Or do you decide on your own first, supplemented by requests from others?

Propaganda.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 17:55
Nice glib and content-free response.
I like that you like, comrade.


Are you saying that you _only_ delete off-topic when requested by others? Or do you decide on your own first, supplemented by requests from others? Propaganda.
It varies. Sometimes by request, sometimes by my own. And not propaganda, but off-topic. For example, almost all posts of RL about civil war in Ukraine are here, including "propadanda". Only off-topic about Russia is cleaned, is it "propaganda" or not. ;)

Armoured
05-11-2014, 18:01
It varies. Sometimes by request, sometimes by my own. And not propaganda, but off-topic. For example, almost all posts of RL about civil war in Ukraine are here, including "propadanda". Only off-topic about Russia is cleaned. is it "propaganda" or not. ;)

My point is not that you are deleting propaganda. But that you are the propagandist by deleting posts or parts of posts selectively.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 18:03
My point is not that you are deleting propaganda. But that you are the propagandist by deleting posts or parts of posts selectively.
Once more - I delete off-topic. If you consider it as propaganda - let it be.

Judge
05-11-2014, 18:08
My point is not that you are deleting propaganda. But that you are the propagandist by deleting posts or parts of posts selectively.
If we are talking about this thread.
I have just done a count and both wally and lad have roughly same amount of posts deleted, so it's not all one sided.

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 18:17
I have just done a count and both wally and lad have roughly same amount of posts deleted, so it's not all one sided.

Have you also taken into account how many posts he has made and how many threads he has started as compared to mine, say, during the last month? I bet it will be like 3-1 in his favor.
Can we make a poll here? I want to make a poll.

FatAndy
05-11-2014, 18:24
I want to make a poll.
http://www.expat.ru/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=39 - please, do.

Russian Lad
05-11-2014, 18:27
please, do.

Done.:)http://expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=637658 Let's see the results and the comments.:cool::rasta::AngelPray::11157:

Judge
05-11-2014, 20:58
Children die in Donetsk shelling.



Two teenagers died and four were wounded when an artillery shell hit a school playing field as they played football in eastern Ukraine.

The attack in Donetsk came as both sides in the Ukrainian conflict accused each other of tearing up a peace deal.

A fragile ceasefire has been in place since 5 September, although hundreds of people have been killed since then.

Fighting erupted in April after pro-Russian separatists seized control in the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29912055

TolkoRaz
05-11-2014, 21:50
You have to remember, Tolka's lively hood depends on conflict. No conflick, no earnings. The more conflict the better for him. It's in his interest to advocate for conflict. Peace is a deadend job for him. The life of a soldier of fortune..

I suggest that you do not listen to the ill-informed gossips! :10310:

TolkoRaz
05-11-2014, 21:53
Children die in Donetsk shelling.



Two teenagers died and four were wounded when an artillery shell hit a school playing field as they played football in eastern Ukraine.

The attack in Donetsk came as both sides in the Ukrainian conflict accused each other of tearing up a peace deal.

A fragile ceasefire has been in place since 5 September, although hundreds of people have been killed since then.

Fighting erupted in April after pro-Russian separatists seized control in the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29912055

Who fired the shell at Donetsk? Not the inhabitants or the separatists!

Carl
05-11-2014, 22:46
Who fired the shell at Donetsk? Not the inhabitants or the separatists!

And you know this how..?

Carl
05-11-2014, 22:48
I suggest that you do not listen to the ill-informed gossips! :10310:

You liked my post so well, you commented twice! Cool!

Uncle Wally
05-11-2014, 23:58
If we are talking about this thread.
I have just done a count and both wally and lad have roughly same amount of posts deleted, so it's not all one sided.

You mean I'm tied with the Lad? Oh the shame, the shame!

Russian Lad
06-11-2014, 00:08
Not the inhabitants or the separatists!

You were there holding a candle? We have seen videotapes with these terrorists on which they beat up the population using machine guns as baseball bats, shoot at each other and have drunken fights and brawls with fully loaded (and firing) machine guns. I can well imagine them getting wasted and shooting in all directions from heavy weapons too. But it is only a conjecture, of course, I cannot claim this for sure. Deliberate provocations are also on the table of options.

Обезьяна с Автоматом АК-47/Ape With AK-47 - YouTube

Uncle Wally
06-11-2014, 00:09
Ah. So basically expat.ru is another arm of the propaganda hydra. Perhaps a statement of this editorial policy right up front would be called for?

Seriously, the editorial antics of this site for everything off-topic as long as anti-West / pro-Gold and other random lunacy, while deleting others, are atrocious.

That's what you think. Lunacy is running up 18 trillion dollars it debt so you can look cool while bombing other countries because they won't play along with your scam. Letting your government kill women and children with cowardly drones. America started all this in Ukraine and you have to be wacko not to see.

Uncle Wally
06-11-2014, 00:12
You were there holding a candle? We have seen videotapes with these terrorists on which they beat up the population, shoot at each other and have drunken fights and brawls with fully loaded (and firing) machine guns. I can well imagine them getting wasted and shooting in all directions from heavy weapons too. But it is only a conjecture, of course, I cannot claim this for sure. Deliberate provocations are also on the table of options.

Trying hard to beat on the amount of deleted post huh? I have to admit you are good at it.

Russian Lad
06-11-2014, 00:16
Trying hard to beat on the amount of deleted post huh?

It was moved here, post #54, page 4. Tell me if they are different from this audacious African ape.:) 1 hour 24 minutes of sheer and unbridled Wild West excitement, beats any Hollywood movie. I was watching and wondering if it is a preview of my own country's future, I have to admit.

Uncle Wally
06-11-2014, 00:31
It was moved here, post #54, page 4. Tell me if they are different from this audacious African ape.:) 1 hour 24 minutes of sheer and unbridled Wild West excitement, beats any Hollywood movie. I was watching and wondering if it is a preview of my own country's future, I have to admit.

That's no way to talk about Obama! He may be a fudge packing crack whore but it's not nice to call him an ape. I don't think you will have to worry about Obama becoming your president, America is going to lose this war.

FatAndy
06-11-2014, 09:52
Some off-topic cleaned.

fenrir
06-11-2014, 10:54
That's what you think. Lunacy is running up 18 trillion dollars it debt so you can look cool while bombing other countries because they won't play along with your scam. Letting your government kill women and children with cowardly drones. America started all this in Ukraine and you have to be wacko not to see.

Just as cool as letting your currency become the laughing stock of the world while send troops disguised as volunteers to attack a kindred nation to satisfy an inferiority complex.

Judge
06-11-2014, 14:37
more off topic deleted, thanks for letting us know...

Armoured
06-11-2014, 17:20
Seriously, the editorial antics of this site for everything off-topic as long as anti-West / pro-Gold and other random lunacy, while deleting others, are atrocious.


That's what you think. Lunacy is running up 18 trillion dollars it debt so you can look cool while bombing other countries because they won't play along with your scam. Letting your government kill women and children with cowardly drones. America started all this in Ukraine and you have to be wacko not to see.

Thanks, Wally, for not missing any opportunity to prove my point for me.

TolkoRaz
06-11-2014, 17:32
Courtesy of STRATFOR

Analysis

On Nov. 4, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko ordered his military forces to reinforce several towns, including the port city of Mariupol and the city of Kharkiv, in case separatists mount a new offensive. Over the past week, the Ukrainian government and eyewitnesses on the ground have reported an uptick in the flow of reinforcements, supplies and weapons from Russia across the border into eastern Ukraine. The movements have raised the question of whether Moscow's strategy or intent in eastern Ukraine is shifting. Russia is seizing an opportunity to increase its political leverage over Kiev by mounting troops while also keeping its military options open.

Many of the reports depict convoys of KAMAZ trucks carrying items such as Grad multiple rocket launch systems, ammunition and anti-aircraft weapons. Fuel trucks and armored vehicles have also been sighted, as well as tank columns moving west by rail from Russia's Rostov-on-Don. Most of these sightings took place near the city of Donetsk, while a few reports said such convoys were moving on the road to Debaltseve, a town at a crossroads between the cities of Luhansk and Donetsk where fighting between Kiev and separatist forces is ongoing. There are also unconfirmed reports of movement to the north of Luhansk.

At the same time, NATO's Supreme Commander in Europe, Gen. Philip Breedlove, said during a Nov. 3 press conference at the Pentagon that there are currently seven battalion task groups on the Russian side of the border with Ukraine. He added that over the past week, around the time of the separatist elections in Donetsk and Luhansk, some of these forces left their encampments and moved closer to the Ukrainian border. While Gen. Breedlove highlighted how the border between Russia and Ukraine has become "completely porous," and that Russian equipment and soldiers flow freely across the border, he also noted that there are only between 250 and 300 "actual Russian troops inside of Ukraine doing the training and equipping of the separatist forces." He emphasized that these forces have no combat role.

Conflicted Reports

By nature, these reports are fragmentary. They give us a glimpse of the kinds of supplies that may be flowing into the region, but they fail to give us a precise picture of quantities or exact geographic locations. However, the volume of reports points to an increase in Russian supplies and weapons being delivered to the Donbas region.

Throughout the conflict in Ukraine, reinforcements have come in many different shapes or forms, including Russian-trained separatists, Russian volunteers, clandestine military units and Russian forces in unmarked uniforms, often referred to as "little green men." These forces are difficult to identify, and the latest convoy may include anywhere from one to several of these troop categories. Moreover, it is unclear whether some of these forces are relieving other units or if separatists are building their numbers up. It is therefore difficult to place an exact number of actual Russian troops in eastern Ukraine, and reports on the size and nature of the Russian military presence will likely remain conflicting.

Russia's Position

Regardless of whether it is mostly Russian soldiers or Russian-trained separatists moving supplies into the region, the potential uptick is the result of a decision made in Moscow. As their sole provider of training and logistics, the Kremlin has significant influence over separatist groups -- even more so over the equipment and personnel moving across its border into eastern Ukraine.

Although small-scale fighting has continued in strategic places such as the Donetsk airport and Debaltseve, a cease-fire has officially been in place since Sept. 5. For the Kremlin, there are a few reasons for choosing now to move more weapons and supplies into the separatist-held regions. First, winter is approaching, and Russian military planners want to ensure that separatist fighters have enough weapons, fuel and supplies to last through the winter months, when transportation throughout the region is more difficult. Another key reason for the increased supplies and equipment is the Kremlin's need to consolidate its gains in eastern Ukraine and stabilize its lines. Moreover, there are reports that Russia is taking command of different separatist groups which have thus far been operating independently in an effort to centralize control and streamline operations in places like the Donetsk airport, where fighting continues. By supplying the rebels, Russia is also maintaining the rebels' operational capability through times of potential disrupted logistics. Finally, the increase in supply and weapons flows may indicate that Russia is preparing for a buildup inside the rebel-held areas in preparation for an expanded military operation to gain new territories.

An expanded, Russian-supported military operation to take new territories is unlikely during the short run while the Kremlin is facing a host of challenges, both externally and at home. The majority of Russians oppose a direct intervention in Ukraine, while falling oil prices and a plummeting ruble are causing concern among Russian policymakers and the general public regarding the government's ability to finance its defense and energy projects while still meeting its social spending obligations. Furthermore, Russian military aggressiveness would likely lead to more sanctions from the West and further antagonize the domestic polity.

Russia knows this. Since the conflict began, its ultimate goal has been to prevent Ukraine from integrating with Western institutions, especially NATO, and to turn the country into a neutral buffer state. It does not want to take over Ukraine. Increasing supply and weapons deliveries to eastern Ukraine gives Moscow a capable tool, one of many, to use as leverage against Kiev. With a growing amount of weapons and supplies in place in Donbas, in addition to separatist and Russian forces in place both inside Ukraine and on the Russian side of the border, the Kremlin is increasing its military leverage over Kiev. Moscow is not committing to an operation that would be highly unpopular and damaging to the government both domestically and internationally, but it is also not completely taking the option off the table. In other words, these recent movements can be seen as political posturing that lets the Kremlin keep its options open by laying the groundwork for potential further military advances.

FatAndy
06-11-2014, 18:00
Courtesy of STRATFOR

Analysis

<...>
I like the language:
the question of whether <...> is shifting
a few reports said
unconfirmed reports of movement
difficult to identify
may include anywhere from one to several
unclear whether some of these forces
difficult to place an exact number
reports on the size and nature <...>will likely remain conflicting
of whether it is mostly Russian soldiers or Russian-trained separatists

It resembles me that old Soviet Army anecdote end / proverb - "...х@й его знает, тащ командир!" ;)

Uncle Wally
07-11-2014, 04:17
Thanks, Wally, for not missing any opportunity to prove my point for me.



And what would that be?

TolkoRaz
07-11-2014, 20:04
Apparently, 30 x Tanks and 30 x Trucks towing artillery crossed from the RF into the UKR today.

It is clear that there will be an escalation of activity in coming days and probably an expansion of the area currently controlled by the pro-Russian separatists.

Mariupol by the New Year!

Russian Lad
07-11-2014, 20:28
Mariupol by the New Year!

Yes, and the dollar 100 plus massive layoffs and soaring food prices. I would support that I guess. Will the Russians be ready to pay the ultimate price for the knowledge Mariupol is not Ukrainian anymore but hardly Russian anyway? I am 100% sure most Russians will not even find it on a map.

Щоденник АТž | 6 лис‚опада - YouTube

FatAndy
07-11-2014, 20:56
To Tolik:
How you dare to disclose the Main Military Secret, comrade?!?! :cussing:

FatAndy
07-11-2014, 21:11
I am 100% sure most Russians will not even find it on a map.
Tell these "most Russians" to search for Жданов, and everything will be OK.
BTW, congratulations with the 97th ann. of the Great October, comrade! :verycool:
:beerbros:

Russian Lad
07-11-2014, 21:15
Tell these "most Russians" to search for Жданов, and everything will be OK.
BTW, congratulations with the 97th ann. of the Great October, comrade!

I share your optimism, but for entirely different reasons.:) You know, once an experiment was carried out - a banana was placed into a narrow barrel, a monkey stuck its hand inside, held the banana tight but could not withdraw the hand, the barrel was too narrow. So, here goes this monkey, screaming from pain and unguish, but still unwilling to let this banana go. That's a brief synopsis of Russia in Ukraine today.

TolkoRaz
07-11-2014, 22:26
To Tolik:
How you dare to disclose the Main Military Secret, comrade?!?! :cussing:

There can only be 2 primary Strategic reasons that even the inept CIA could understand! ;)

1. Seizure of Mariupol & implimentation of a Southern road corridor to guarantee resupply of The Krim via road
2. Statement of intent to the Evil West demonstrating that the RF & its military will not be bullied or influenced by Sanctions & the Demonisation of the RF / VVP

In addition, there could be at least 3 Tactical reasons that even the inept CIA could understand! ;)

1. Resupply & hardening of current positions prior to possible UKR offensive
2. Resupply of current defensive postions before the bad weather makes it more difficult to resupply
3. Seizure of Donetsk airport to create an air-bridge

I know which my Rubles are on! ;)

Russian Lad
07-11-2014, 23:49
War in its real sense has not yet commenced. At this current point in time, we may be transitioning towards war.

How is it not real war? We have seen all sorts of weapons used, short of nukes. If a certain party denies its involvement while being involved, it doesn't change much.
And it is really weird - the Russians killing the Ukrainians from the Russian weapons on the Ukrainian soil while denying it and blaming it all on the Americans. It doesn't withold any scrutiny and is utterly crazy. Insane.

TolkoRaz
07-11-2014, 23:50
However painful for those concerned, what we have seen to date is a small scale localised & restrained conflict.

Russian Lad
07-11-2014, 23:54
However painful for those concerned, what we have seen to date is a small scale localised & restrained conflict.

Yeah, right, almost like a casual brawl in a bar. 5K dead already, some say as many as 40K, hundreds of thousands refugees. I would not call it either small or restrained.

TolkoRaz
07-11-2014, 23:59
Yeah, right, almost like a casual brawl in a bar. 5K dead already, some say as many as 40K, hundreds of thousands refugees. I would not call it either small or restrained.

Well, you have probably never served in the military or seen war at close quarters.

Rest assured, it is localised and restrained!

Russian Lad
08-11-2014, 00:02
Well, you have probably never served in the military or seen war at close quarters.

You must be a very old guy since you don't remember I have said many times here (including to you) that I have never served.
Rest assured I don't believe you. You (not you personally, the collective you) will have a chance to make your point at the Hague, but doubt they are gullible there, either.

Fantastika
08-11-2014, 00:05
And it is really weird - the Russians killing the Ukrainians from the Russian weapons on the Ukrainian soil while denying it and blaming it all on the Americans. It doesn't withhold any scrutiny and is utterly crazy. Insane.

C'mon, RL. The Kiev media (and Lysenko) is claiming they killed 200 rebels today, and the other big story from Kiev is that they are abiding by the cease fire.

How can these contradictory stories both be true?

TolkoRaz
08-11-2014, 00:07
You must be a very old guy since you don't remember I have said many times here (including to you) that I have never served.
Rest assured I don't believe you.

Has the RF dispatched aircraft and bombers into the UKR, either to The Donb**** Kyiv or Lviv?

Has the RF fired Tochka or other tactical missiles into the UKR?

Has the RF's Navy shelled the UKR from the Black Sea?

Has the RF punched through the border area with columns of armour?

Have acts of sabotage been conducted elsewhere in the UKR by the GRU / SpetNaz etc

I could go on..............

Russian Lad
08-11-2014, 00:14
I could go on..............

Even if they didn't - it is because they met resistance from the brave Ukrainians fighting for their country and because in this case the RF economy would sink like a stone - all communications would be severed immediately, Internet, including the banking system would go blink - Alfabank and VTB lost their online services the day the Crimea was declared Russian - I was sitting there staring at the blank screen and thinking - this is it, Armageddon. You know it as well as I do. There are still thousands of corpses who cry for justice, some - in the Russian soil, secretely buried like stray dogs. And I intend to live to the day when the justice is served and to celebrate it in Kiev with the victorious Ukrainians.


C'mon, RL. The Kiev media (and Lysenko) is claiming they killed 200 rebels today, and the other big story from Kiev is that they are abiding by the cease fire.

How can these contradictory stories both be true?

They are reporting it was an attack they stopped.

bydand
08-11-2014, 00:19
Originally Posted by TolkoRaz View Post
War in its real sense has not yet commenced.

Then why will Fat Andy likely transfer many of these latest posts to The Civil War in the Ukraine: Series two thread?

Russian Lad
08-11-2014, 00:23
Then why will Fat Andy likely transfer many of these latest posts to The Civil War in the Ukraine: Series two thread?

Forget about the war word, concentrate on the civil part. Andy believes he is good at misinforming stupid foreigners, I assume. Let it be.:) Or maybe it is a way of alleviating his own conscience, if he has one, who knows...

Uncle Wally
08-11-2014, 00:29
War in its real sense has not yet commenced. At this current point in time, we may be transitioning towards war.


"may be"?

Fantastika
08-11-2014, 04:43
They are reporting it was an attack they stopped.

Andrei Lysenko, a font of truthfulness and honesty...

All day long, the "news" has endlessly, relentlessly repeated these stories from Lysenko's Ministry of Propaganda:

Ukraine crisis: Russian tanks threaten fragile ceasefire, says President ...

Ukraine's President, Petro Poroshenko, has said that his nation's conflict with Russia was escalating after a column of 32 tanks, 30 lorries and 16 heavy artillery pieces was reported to have entered the separatist-controlled eastern region of Luhansk.

Ukraine Truce Vanishes as Government Says 200 Rebels Dead

Then, one story, carried in one newspaper:

No Evidence of Russia's Alleged Incursion Into Ukraine: Pentagon

All I can say is, if you make a deal with this kind of people, make sure you get paid first.

Russian Lad
08-11-2014, 04:48
All I can say is, if you make a deal with this kind of people, make sure you get paid first.

I trust Tolko on this particular bit of intelligence. He mentioned around 60 pieces moving in, - with personnel, I assume. Now there are 200 corpses and some burnt pieces, the Ukrainians are reporting. It all adds up...
Actually, I am not in particular interested in specific numbers and logistics - I found tons of proof for what I was looking for a long time ago. Some small details can always be wrong and/or exaggerated by any side. I have had my fill. You are on the wrong side of history in your blind hate. And your side will lose. And you will feel emptiness and bitterness. Ordinary Russians have already begun paying for this - every day, from their own wallets. The pay time has come. As I have promised. I never promise something that cannot come true. Just believe me.

Fantastika
08-11-2014, 05:53
I trust Tolko on this particular bit of intelligence. He mentioned around 60 pieces moving in, - with personnel, I assume. Now there are 200 corpses and some burnt pieces, the Ukrainians are reporting. It all adds up...
Actually, I am not in particular interested in specific numbers and logistics - I found tons of proof for what I was looking for a long time ago. Some small details can always be wrong and/or exaggerated by any side. I have had my fill. You are on the wrong side of history in your blind hate. And your side will lose. And you will feel emptiness and bitterness. Ordinary Russians have already begun paying for this - every day, from their own wallets. The pay time has come. As I have promised. I never promise something that cannot come true. Just believe me.

Okay, Scrooge.

FatAndy
10-11-2014, 12:05
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/54607cf0cbb20fa08f0af59f - DNR leaders say, they're ready to sell coal to Ukraine (~2M ton, while 1M ton is already purchased in South Africa).

War is was, but business is business...

At the same time 4th Nov Ukraine Gen. Pros. office has started investigations in Tsentrenergo company of Ukraine, about all coal deals:
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/08/11/2014/545e1394cbb20f771283f1ef

Minister of coal/energetics Yury Prodan very probably will be interrogated today, 10th Nov (some sources say, maybe even arrested after).

TolkoRaz
10-11-2014, 15:22
I guess the RF will build the new Donetsk airport? ;)

FatAndy
10-11-2014, 15:59
I guess the RF will build the new Donetsk airport? ;)
Will see. At least it is really needed.

Fantastika
10-11-2014, 16:49
Today the media is jibber-jabbering (Google news search yields 27,000 results) about the "European Leadership Network's" report of provocative military activity involving NATO and Russia. Reports mainly near the Russian border.

Very biased report, by a London "think tank."

All incidents are blamed on Russia.

Such as Russian planes "provocatively" flying over NATO warships in the Black Sea and Sea of Okhutsk. Hmmm, well why are NATO warships operating in Black Sea and Sea of Okhutsk?

A Russian aircraft spotted within 50 miles of California? Not mentioned in the biased report - NATO aircraft within 1 mile of Russia, in Baltic countries, Poland, etc.

"Violations" of American and Canadian Air Defense Identification Zones. Yeah, right. Such "zones" extend from Alaska, for example, nearly all the way to the coast of Kamchatka. A Russian aircraft in this zone is a "provocation," according to ELN.

http://www.fairbrothers.com/expatphotos/Alaskan_ADIZ.jpg

Another "Russian provocation" occurred when England decided to send up fighter warplanes to shadow Russian aircraft flying in international airspace.

In summary, another daily load of Russia-bashing hypocrisy from London and the Western woof-woofing media.

TolkoRaz
10-11-2014, 18:10
Woof - Woof - "Who let the Bears out?" ;)

FatAndy
10-11-2014, 18:37
Tolik, please :cussing:, next time resize the pic in advance? ;)

TolkoRaz
10-11-2014, 22:12
Tolik, please :cussing:, next time resize the pic in advance? ;)

Apologies, but that is beyond my capabilities! :p

I thought that size did not matter! :p

Uncle Wally
10-11-2014, 23:58
Apologies, but that is beyond my capabilities! :p

I thought that size did not matter! :p



She lied.

Yaks
11-11-2014, 00:54
I love Russian bears but my fav is the Backfire and the kitchen and kingfish missiles-now that's a potent mix and sexy too.

Uncle Wally
14-11-2014, 23:10
Ukrainians throwing people into a hold and shooting them.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0dvOeM4Xqs

AstarD
14-11-2014, 23:12
That's what happens to traitors in a war.

TolkoRaz
14-11-2014, 23:45
Pistol shots, no justice?

Nazi justice!

Forgive me AstarD, I thought that you were supposed to be a devout Christian? :confused:

Uncle Wally
14-11-2014, 23:50
That's what happens to traitors in a war.



It's a crime. Called murder.

TolkoRaz
15-11-2014, 00:19
That's what happens to traitors in a war.

How do you know that they were traitors? You write with such authority! :suspect:

AstarD
15-11-2014, 00:40
Pistol shots, no justice?

Nazi justice!

Forgive me AstarD, I thought that you were supposed to be a devout Christian? :confused:

I am. I'm not a pacifist, though. They were Ukrainian citizens fomenting the breakup of the Ukrainian state. How would they be called if they were Russian citizens advocating for the breakup of the Russian state?

Uncle Wally
15-11-2014, 00:43
I am. I'm not a pacifist, though. They were Ukrainian citizens fomenting the breakup of the Ukrainian state. How would they be called if they were Russian citizens advocating for the breakup of the Russian state?



Not a pacifist yeah we can see that.

And how do you know that's what they did?

AstarD
15-11-2014, 00:46
The same way you know the people who fired the shots were ukrnazis or karateli.

Uncle Wally
15-11-2014, 01:09
The same way you know the people who fired the shots were ukrnazis or karateli.






The Ukrainian flag on the side of the jeep makes me think they're Ukrainain. The people being shot were not in uniform.

Yaks
15-11-2014, 03:13
enjoy )

AstarD
15-11-2014, 10:25
The Ukrainian flag on the side of the jeep makes me think they're Ukrainain. The people being shot were not in uniform.Probably because it was a jeep they had seized when they took over the Ukrainian military bases. See, this could go on forever. There's no proof on either side that's sufficient to convince those who believe one or the other side is telling more of the truth than the other.

zzhhst
16-11-2014, 21:59
I read the article. The cost is about to go up on the Russian side.


http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-close-state-offices-bank-services-rebel-held-151310216.html

FatAndy
17-11-2014, 09:03
I read the article. The cost is about to go up on the Russian side.


http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-close-state-offices-bank-services-rebel-held-151310216.html
This means, maidowns and Ukronazists have finally accepted independence of DNR/LNR de facto. Good.
Cost? It's only money.


You have some lengthy explanations for the words "economic and financial collappse"
I'll be even shorter - mismanagement. ;)


There is an interesting article about this in Russian, Andy, enjoy:
http://snob.ru/selected/entry/83694
You definitely know that first name of zzhhst is Andy? Care to observe rules? :rasta:


Our gravy sucking pigs!
Damned totalitarian beasts! :D

bydand
17-11-2014, 11:48
This is looking likely, although I would write that the RF is preparing for war / conflict, but is not planning for War / Conflict.

Preparing to take Mariupol without plans?:eh:

FatAndy
17-11-2014, 12:57
This is looking likely, although I would write that the RF is preparing for war / conflict, but is not planning for War / Conflict.
Unexpectedly! :coffee:


We can do that? Don't tell me I've been overlooking that ignore button I've been looking for.
Anyone besides mods :10220: can do that.

Upper left corner "User CP" (control panel) -> "Edit Ignore list" -> enter username to ignore -> press Okay.

Fast link - http://www.expat.ru/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist


Preparing to take Mariupol without plans?:eh:
Russia doesn't plan to take Mariupol', comrade. DNR does. :) Stop your imperialistic provocations.

Carl
17-11-2014, 13:15
Russia doesn't plan to take Mariupol', comrade. DNR does. :) Stop your imperialistic provocations.

Highly unlikely the DNR could do such a thing without the full support and backing of their puppet master Russia tho...:ak:

FatAndy
17-11-2014, 13:21
Highly unlikely the DNR could do such a thing without the full support and backing
Do you also envy, comrade? :suspect:


of their puppet master Russia tho...:ak:
Not puppet master, but Elder Brother, helping Younger Brother. :12115:
And this is good and correct.

Uncle Wally
17-11-2014, 13:24
Highly unlikely the DNR could do such a thing without the full support and backing of their puppet master Russia tho...:ak:




Highly unlikely Ukraine would commit so many war crimes without being told to by the US of A.

Carl
17-11-2014, 13:24
Do you also envy, comrade? :suspect:


Not puppet master, but Elder Brother, helping Younger Brother. :12115:
And this is good and correct.

What's to envy? ..and your calling me comrade is an offense, Sovok.

FatAndy
17-11-2014, 13:29
What's to envy? ..and your calling me comrade is an offense, Sovok.

5 points for personal insult of moderator, member. :)

Carl
17-11-2014, 13:30
Highly unlikely Ukraine would commit so many war crimes without being told to by the US of A.

I suppose the same person that told you the ruble was king, also told you this?

Uncle Wally
17-11-2014, 13:36
I suppose the same person that told you the ruble was king, also told you this?



Very easy to see that the US of A started this and would not be possible without the US of A.

FatAndy
17-11-2014, 14:05
Dunno, if it is real photo, but looks good:

http://sa.uploads.ru/ISHef.jpg

Armoured
17-11-2014, 14:05
5 points for personal insult of moderator, member. :)

Plus or minus? :smurf:

FatAndy
17-11-2014, 14:07
Plus or minus? :smurf:
Depends on the mood, of course. :)

FatAndy
17-11-2014, 14:17
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/17/11/2014/5469d250cbb20fd7ebe2d5cf - supreme court of RF has officially recognised some Ukronazi/banderlog organisations as extremist ones.

Russian Lad
18-11-2014, 18:03
Well, FatAndy, you have thanked my post, but you haven't answered my question there. Please be so kind as to offer me a brief synopsis, I am genuinely interested.
And more liberal whining for you, read the end of the article, it is sort of important:):
http://www.echo.msk.ru/blog/kiselev/1438438-echo/


And is it going to make the job market more competitive ?

Sure, there will be more Russian slaves available for less cash. Thank you, Vladimir Putin. I assume I should be grateful, as a well-protected Russian speaker (where is that bow-bow-bow button when I need it).

FatAndy
18-11-2014, 18:14
Please be so kind as to offer me a brief synopsis, I am genuinely interested.
OK. You will suffer. :)


And more liberal whining for you, read the end of the article, it is sort of important:):
http://www.echo.msk.ru/blog/kiselev/1438438-echo/
It is kiselyovschina! :voodoo:

Uncle Wally
18-11-2014, 18:23
OK. You will suffer.

He's Russian, he's used to it. Give him your best shot!

Russian Lad
18-11-2014, 18:24
OK. You will suffer.

So far I have only been gaining from it - all my savings are in Euro and most of my clients pay in hard currencies (but I assume I am not a very typical Russian Ivan out there). The question was - what is it for you personally in the current Russian policies in Ukraine, if it is not about money. ???


It is kiselyovschina!

Well, if you disagree with his statements and assessments, care to refute a single one? As for me, I can sign under each word there, it is as if I have written it myself.

FatAndy
18-11-2014, 18:36
So far I have only been gaining from it - all my savings are in Euro and most of my clients pay in hard currencies
It is temporary mistake. :)


The question was - what is it for you personally in the current Russian policies in Ukraine, if it is not about money. ???
Nothing too special - we're doing everything correctly there, helping adequate people in their fighting against non-adequate ones. Moreover, observing and protecting our own interests.


Well, if you disagree with his statements and assessments, care to refute a single one?
How I can agree or disagree with a crazy person, whose brain is a combination of boiling $h!t and cockroaches? :)


As for me, I can sign under each word there, it is as if I have written it myself.
Good for you, join him ASAP, if you want.

Russian Lad
18-11-2014, 18:40
Nothing too special - we're doing everything correctly there, helping adequate people in their fighting against non-adequate ones.

The declared goal was helping the Russian speakers in Ukraine. How is it successful if, as a direct result of this help, we have thousands of Russian speakers dead, hundreds of thousands displaced and millions suffering? You don't seem to be logical on this point. Do you consider defying common logic as a virtue?


It is temporary mistake.

Well, it has been dragging on for years.:) And I have spent a lot of it on personal goals and pleasures, so no one can take most of it from me, even in the form of feces.:)

FatAndy
18-11-2014, 18:46
He's Russian, he's used to it.
Not sure. :)


Give him your best shot!
It doesn't worth.
Можно пару слов без протокола?
Чему нас учат семья и школа?
Что жизнь сама таких накажет строго -
Тут мы согласны... скажи, Серёга?
(С)


The declared goal was helping the Russian speakers in Ukraine. How is it successful if, as a direct result of this help, we have thousands of Russian speakers dead, hundreds of thousands displaced and millions suffering?
All (and real) goals never declared. :)


And I have spent a lot of it on personal goals and pleasures, so no one can take most of it from me, even in the form of feces.:)
It's up to you. Continue, if you can.

Russian Lad
18-11-2014, 18:59
All (and real) goals never declared.

So, what's the real goal that justifies all the victims who are now dead, wounded, displaced, abused or suffering? And I am not talking only about the civilians, but also about these opolchentsi, the Ukrainian soldiers and even the Russian soldiers, secretly buried in Russia - at least some of them, there are many eye-witness accounts confirming this, including videos.

FatAndy
25-11-2014, 12:41
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/54743062cbb20fd30000e99d - 8th convoy of MChS to deliver 1000 tons of humanitarian aid to Donbass.


Meanwhile... Lithuania starts to supply ARMOURED VEHICLES to Ukraine... :jawdrop:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ9J2DYOpJc

FatAndy
25-11-2014, 15:03
Some funny documents by CyberBerkut (they claim, these docs were stolen in e-form from the mobile device of smbd in Joe Byden crowd) : http://cyber-berkut.org/

Benedikt
26-11-2014, 22:17
from the TV news...
he says Ukraine was the victim of two aggressors.Germany and the Soviet Union.
But he does not call the Germans -Fascists-, all over sudden they were only occupiers.
Is he sucking up to Frau Merkel? what a clown!

FatAndy
26-11-2014, 22:28
Not him, but his puppets, minister of education or culture... let them. Criminal codex of Ukraine hangs over... :)

Benedikt
26-11-2014, 22:39
Not him, but his puppets, minister of education or culture... let them. Criminal codex of Ukraine hangs over... :)


same suckers as we have here... sorry to say that.

Russian Lad
27-11-2014, 05:22
from the TV news...
he says Ukraine was the victim of two aggressors.Germany and the Soviet Union.
But he does not call the Germans -Fascists-, all over sudden they were only occupiers.
Is he sucking up to Frau Merkel? what a clown!

What is actually wrong about calling a spade a spade? It is WW-II to the rest of the world, and the only reason Russia doesn't want to call it WW-II is because USSR attacked and occupied parts of Finland, Poland and some other countries well before what it officially calls ВОВ. Trying to whiten up the history is stupid and even pointless. It is also very harmful.
If I was the president, I would pursue a different policy altogether, would use the fact that Russia is not exactly USSR, would put the blame on the previous Soviet leaders and call for the bygones to be bygones, would even apologize to Ukraine for many things in the past. And guess what? Ukraine would be a part of my Customs Union now, friendly and brightly shining, never influenced that much by the West, a brotherly nation willingly accepting my financial aid and my military bases. Feel the difference. And Russia would be prosperous and powerful as never before. Instead, Russia is approaching the storm it has not experienced for the last 100 years. Russia is staring down the bottom of an abyss and is about to jump.

Benedikt
27-11-2014, 05:44
Trying to whiten up the history is stupid and even pointless. It is also very harmful.
If I was the president, I would pursue a different policy altogether, would use the fact that Russia is not exactly USSR, would put the blame on the previous Soviet leaders and call for the bygones to be bygones, would even apologize to Ukraine for many things in the past.


another country / people come to my mind to your comment. who will NEVER let bygones be bygones and accept an apology. they rub the noses of the other people in the muck every day.
the =now= generation also has enough of this. they were not born at that time. can't be held responsible. and still are made feel communal guilty over and over again and again, suppose 100 years will not enough to pay and pay and pay.

maybe Choco Pedro and his cronies also think they can go this way? won't work here...

Russian Lad
27-11-2014, 05:57
another country / people come to my mind to your comment. who will NEVER let bygones be bygones and accept an apology. they rub the noses of the other people in the muck every day.
the =now= generation also has enough of this. they were not born at that time. can't be held responsible. and still are made feel communal guilty over and over again and again, suppose 100 years will not enough to pay and pay and pay.

I have learnt their culture and their language well enough now to understand them better. I would know exactly which buttons to push.
By the way, most likely we really came from that area, Kiev is older than Moscow, on the whole, it is a bit warmer there - Kievskaya Rus and all the jazz and the works. I would acknowledge that too, to their utter pleasure. Just because I think it is true and also because it would suit my noble agenda. I would address them in Ukrainian and show respect. The Americans would not have a chance. The biggest mistake of Putin is he believes he can buy everything with money and dictate his will with guns where he cannot buy something, always feeling his supremacy and showing his contempt to those who disagree. First, it is not true, and second - he is running out of money as we speak anyway. He will have only the nukes. And, at a certain point, throngs of hungry Russians clanging on empty metal pots. FatAndy, you and the similar Russian "patriots" will probably be the first in the long line for Western sausages (or Chinese bowls of rice), pushing and shoving aside the weaker contestants.:) It all happened before in the nineties. Remember me when that happens, if you are still around.


the =now= generation also has enough of this. they were not born at that time. can't be held responsible

This deserves a separate answer. The collective NOW in Russia is responsible for the recent carnage, in my view. What I was suggesting can materialize in a few generations time, if ever. The Ukrainian blood has been spilled by the - now - generation. By the way, 5 million rubles for each dead Russian soldier who "died during the training on the Ukrainian border". It is official now, or sort of official: http://top.rbc.ru/politics/26/11/2014/5474652bcbb20f8341fa923b#xtor=AL-[internal_traffic]--[rbc.ru]-[main_body]-[item_4]

Armoured
27-11-2014, 06:26
another country / people come to my mind to your comment. who will NEVER let bygones be bygones and accept an apology. they rub the noses of the other people in the muck every day.

Why don't you just come out and name it instead of pretending like this? Go on, just admit it.

Yaks
27-11-2014, 06:29
Trying to whiten up the history is stupid and even pointless. It is also very harmful.
If I was the president, I would pursue a different policy altogether, would use the fact that Russia is not exactly USSR, would put the blame on the previous Soviet leaders and call for the bygones to be bygones, would even apologize to Ukraine for many things in the past.


another country / people come to my mind to your comment. who will NEVER let bygones be bygones and accept an apology. they rub the noses of the other people in the muck every day.
the =now= generation also has enough of this. they were not born at that time. can't be held responsible. and still are made feel communal guilty over and over again and again, suppose 100 years will not enough to pay and pay and pay.

maybe Choco Pedro and his cronies also think they can go this way? won't work here...

come on Ben you can say the name of that other country/those people you are so sick of...don't dance around it now...you poor little thing.

Judge
27-11-2014, 08:11
Russia is approaching the storm it has not experienced for the last 100 years. Russia is staring down the bottom of an abyss and is about to jump.

You're a bit of a drama queen, aren't you?

TolkoRaz
27-11-2014, 08:19
You're a bit of a drama queen, aren't you?

Yes, but it is good for his business encouraging and assisting Russian females a better life outside of a country which is about to implode! ;)

Benedikt
27-11-2014, 11:20
come on Ben you can say the name of that other country/those people you are so sick of...don't dance around it now...you poor little thing.


and it is Israel, Austria and Germany. and most of the -younger- generation Germans who were born during the 70 /80 or are the generation I am, had enough of having it shovelled down our throats what happened 80 years ago. no one says forget, but -Sippenhaft- went out with the end of the Third Reich.

Yaks
27-11-2014, 12:04
and it is Israel, Austria and Germany. and most of the -younger- generation Germans who were born during the 70 /80 or are the generation I am, had enough of having it shovelled down our throats what happened 80 years ago. no one says forget, but -Sippenhaft- went out with the end of the Third Reich.

Well I am sure on behalf of all Jews after 6 million dead one could say "Sorry to inconvenience you Ben"

Armoured
27-11-2014, 12:09
and it is Israel, Austria and Germany. and most of the -younger- generation Germans who were born during the 70 /80 or are the generation I am, had enough of having it shovelled down our throats what happened 80 years ago. no one says forget, but -Sippenhaft- went out with the end of the Third Reich.

Ah, sippenhaft - so basically you're equating Holocaust remembrance with the Nazi policy of family/collective guilt? So Israel and Jews are basically Nazis?

Subtle, you anti-semitic bloody git.

Uncle Wally
27-11-2014, 12:15
Well I am sure on behalf of all Jews after 6 million dead one could say "Sorry to inconvenience you Ben"




That is just the kind of bullshit he's talking about. Jews and Israel are not the same thing.

Uncle Wally
27-11-2014, 12:16
Ah, sippenhaft - so basically you're equating Holocaust remembrance with the Nazi policy of family/collective guilt? So Israel and Jews are basically Nazis?

Subtle, you anti-semitic bloody git.

That is not what he's talking about and you know it so drop it.

Benedikt
27-11-2014, 12:17
Ah, sippenhaft - so basically you're equating Holocaust remembrance with the Nazi policy of family/collective guilt? So Israel and Jews are basically Nazis?

Subtle, you anti-semitic bloody git.



this was a word coined in the Third Reich .Check out WIKI and read up.It was never meant to be used by /for/ against anyone else BUT Germans.

Russian Lad
27-11-2014, 12:18
You're a bit of a drama queen, aren't you?

No, I know a bit of history and have basic logic skills, that's all. Many Russians may need these skills too rather soon, one cannot afford being dumb when the oil hits the 50 mark and the Euro - 70 or 80, not in this country. It will be about the elementary survival.


Yes, but it is good for his business encouraging and assisting Russian females a better life outside of a country which is about to implode!

I would prefer a peaceful decomposition and decay dragging on for many years. But it doesn't seem I will be afforded this luxury.


but -Sippenhaft- went out with the end of the Third Reich.

Again, I wasn't talking about the collective guilt, I was talking about at least acknowledging USSR was a bumpy and sometimes a violent road for the Ukrainians. I was talking about stopping using rose glasses. Besides, acknowledging tragedies like Golodomor (well, it was more of a conscious genocide policy towards the Ukrainians than anything else) would have prevented us from new horrors. Like the one we are seeing in the Eastern Ukraine today. History, when not acknowledged and not respected, always comes back for more blood and more bodies. Nothing personal, that's her business.

Armoured
27-11-2014, 12:22
this was a word coined in the Third Reich .Check out WIKI and read up.It was never meant to be used by /for/ against anyone else BUT Germans.

Right. And you're basically accusing Jews of using a Nazi policy against Germans.

Classy.

http://www.academia.edu/1181198/Family_Punishment_in_Nazi_Germany_Sippenhaft_Terror_and_Myth

Yaks
27-11-2014, 13:29
That is just the kind of bullshit he's talking about. Jews and Israel are not the same thing.

"another country / people come to my mind to your comment. who will NEVER let bygones be bygones and accept an apology. they rub the noses of the other people in the muck every day.
the =now= generation also has enough of this. they were not born at that time. can't be held responsible. and still are made feel communal guilty over and over again and again, suppose 100 years will not enough to pay and pay and pay." <<< This statement is clearly not about Israel. It is about a specific event in the past, one very obvious event that Ben the Austrian has issue with.

Fantastika
27-11-2014, 16:32
It makes me responsible for someone else's behavior, that's what's wrong with it.

In the US, whites are held responsible for the actions of slave-owners 200 years ago. They are also accused of stealing the country from the indigenous savages, and stealing it from the Mexicans and the Hispanics. Obama's (very corrupt) "Pigford" plan paid black "farmers" for the "theft" of their farms.

In Australia, I can see Yaks bending over backwards to support the rights of the Aborigines, he has been well-indoctrinated to feel guilty about things his ancestors might have done, but for which he is held responsible.

Germany, Japan, they are still feeling guilty about their racist polices in WW2, but I imagine some of the present generation doesn't like being saddled with the sins of their grandfathers.

Turkey has an old approach for its genocide of Armenians - just deny it ever happened.

The blacks (well, 95% of them came from other places) in Ferguson, the racial flamethrowers and too many authorities seem to feel act on the proposition that all whites are responsible for that actions of one white person. Conversely, no blacks but the perps, who burn down Asian shops, are held responsible for those crimes. There is no "black community" when this happens.

Anyway, I am not responsible for the actions of anyone else but me.

Even God can't undo the past, and He doesn't hold me to account for the sins of other people.

Yaks
28-11-2014, 02:44
I will feel guilt, and be fine with it, until Aborigines in Australia live 20 years longer than they do to be inline with the rest of Australia. I will feel the same until their disease rates are inline with ours and their health issues are the same and when they have the same education opportunities we have. Having said that, Australia has done a lot to close the gap but it still isn't enough.

likewise if I was an American I would be championing the rights of Black Americans to not face the crime of "Driving while black" and being disproportionately be in the prison system etc. And I do hold a white cop to a higher standard of behaviour and are more alarmed in a white cop on black shooting-than I would some black gangs having a shoot out. The first is the example of the LAW which should be the highest standard of law.

And Jews say " Never forget" but that isn't a message for non-Jews but to Jews only. Because Jews in Europe tried to assimilate, even hide who they were, but were exterminated anyway. So Jews shouldn't 100% relax in these countries but be alert.

But we expect other nations to forget-benedict wants to forget saying "not my problem". but right now in Europe, from Hungary, Greece, France etc far right groups are winning seats and in some places sharing power or have it. In Hungary they want to register all Jews. Jews are being killed in France. Scandinavian countries are trying to outlaw various Jewish religious practices.

Here is a guardian article that says it all:

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

In the space of just one week last month, according to Crif, the umbrella group for France's Jewish organisations, eight synagogues were attacked. One, in the Paris suburb of Sarcelles, was firebombed by a 400-strong mob. A kosher supermarket and pharmacy were smashed and looted; the crowd's chants and banners included "Death to Jews" and "Slit Jews' throats". That same weekend, in the Barbes neighbourhood of the capital, stone-throwing protesters burned Israeli flags: "Israhell", read one banner.

In Germany last month, molotov cocktails were lobbed into the Bergische synagogue in Wuppertal previously destroyed on Kristallnacht and a Berlin imam, Abu Bilal Ismail, called on Allah to "destroy the Zionist Jews Count them and kill them, to the very last one." Bottles were thrown through the window of an antisemitism campaigner in Frankfurt; an elderly Jewish man was beaten up at a pro-Israel rally in Hamburg; an Orthodox Jewish teenager punched in the face in Berlin. In several cities, chants at pro-Palestinian protests compared Israel's actions to the Holocaust; other notable slogans included: "Jew, coward pig, come out and fight alone," and "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas."

Across Europe, the conflict in Gaza is breathing new life into some very old, and very ugly, demons. This is not unusual; police and Jewish civil rights organisations have long observed a noticeable spike in antisemitic incidents each time the Israeli-Palestinian conflict flares. During the three weeks of Israel's Operation Cast Lead in late 2008 and early 2009, France recorded 66 antisemitic incidents, including attacks on Jewish-owned restaurants and synagogues and a sharp increase in anti-Jewish graffiti.But according to academics and Jewish leaders, this time it is different. More than simply a reaction to the conflict, they say, the threats, hate speech and violent attacks feel like the expression of a much deeper and more widespread antisemitism, fuelled by a wide range of factors, that has been growing now for more than a decade.

"These are the worst times since the Nazi era," Dieter Graumann, president of Germany's Central Council of Jews, told the Guardian. "On the streets, you hear things like 'the Jews should be gassed', 'the Jews should be burned' we haven't had that in Germany for decades. Anyone saying those slogans isn't criticising Israeli politics, it's just pure hatred against Jews: nothing else. And it's not just a German phenomenon. It's an outbreak of hatred against Jews so intense that it's very clear indeed."

Roger Cukierman, president of France's Crif, said French Jews were "anguished" about an anti-Jewish backlash that goes far beyond even strongly felt political and humanitarian opposition to the current fighting: "They are not screaming 'Death to the Israelis' on the streets of Paris," Cukierman said last month. "They are screaming 'Death to Jews'." Crif's vice-president Yonathan Arfi said he "utterly rejected" the view that the latest increase in antisemitic incidents was down to events in Gaza. "They have laid bare something far more profound," he said.

Nor is it just Europe's Jewish leaders who are alarmed. Germany's chancellor, Angela Merkel, has called the recent incidents "an attack on freedom and tolerance and our democratic state". The French prime minister, Manuel Valls, has spoken of "intolerable" and clearly antisemitic acts: "To attack a Jew because he is a Jew is to attack France. To attack a synagogue and a kosher grocery store is quite simply antisemitism and racism".

France, whose 500,000-strong Jewish community is one of Europe's largest, and Germany, where the post-war exhortation of "Never Again" is part of the fabric of modern society, are not alone. In Austria last month, a pre-season friendly between Maccabi Haifa and German Bundesliga team SC Paderborn had to be rescheduled after the Israeli side's previous match was called off following an attempted assault on its players.

The Netherlands' main antisemitism watchdog, Cidi, had more than 70 calls from alarmed Jewish citizens in one week last month; the average is normally three to five. An Amsterdam rabbi, Binjamin Jacobs, had his front door stoned, and two Jewish women were attacked one beaten, the other the victim of arson after they hung Israeli flags from their balconies. In Belgium, a woman was reportedly turned away from a shop with the words: "We don't currently sell to Jews."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/07/antisemitism-rise-europe-worst-since-nazis

Fantastika
28-11-2014, 09:07
I will feel guilt, and be fine with it, until Aborigines in Australia live 20 years longer than they do to be inline with the rest of Australia. I will feel the same until their disease rates are inline with ours and their health issues are the same and when they have the same education opportunities we have. Having said that, Australia has done a lot to close the gap but it still isn't enough.


You think with the heart, not with the brain. Always thinking with the heart feels nice, an ideal we can all aspire to, but it can lead to disaster. For example, do you think with the brain or with the heart when you are investing in the stock market? :)


likewise if I was an American I would be championing the rights of Black Americans to not face the crime of "Driving while black" and being disproportionately be in the prison system etc. And I do hold a white cop to a higher standard of behaviour and are more alarmed in a white cop on black shooting-than I would some black gangs having a shoot out. The first is the example of the LAW which should be the highest standard of law.


More blacks are in prison than whites because blacks commit more crimes.
More blacks are suspended from school because more blacks commit schoolyard problems.

And there are a million illegal immigrants in US prisons, which proves the level of immigrant (the lower cl**** Mexico's unwanted) we are getting from Latin America.

You want equality of results, not just equality of opportunity? You can't micro-manage a society that way, without causing a lot of hatred and turmoil. The civil rights journey established that all people should have equal opportunity - the right to go to school, to apply for employment, etc. However, it became corrupt when it went too far, and tried to control everyone's life based on what their skin color was. Should everyone make the same salary? Should everyone be identical? What is the purpose of life then? We start out in life with unlimited opportunity, and we expect to be able to reach the limit of our abilities. We strive to achieve our potential. But when the government regulates who can, for example, apply for a contract, and the government says "only blacks can apply for this contract" or "Hispanics have a preference on getting entrance to the university" then the government is limiting my opportunity, violating my civil rights, and stifling my potential to succeed, based solely on my skin color.


Here is a guardian article that says it all:

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

In the space of just one week last month, according to Crif, the umbrella group for France's Jewish organisations, eight synagogues were attacked. One, in the Paris suburb of Sarcelles, was firebombed by a 400-strong mob. A kosher supermarket and pharmacy were smashed and looted; the crowd's chants and banners included "Death to Jews" and "Slit Jews' throats". That same weekend, in the Barbes neighbourhood of the capital, stone-throwing protesters burned Israeli flags: "Israhell", read one banner.

In Germany last month, molotov cocktails were lobbed into the Bergische
...
Across Europe, the conflict in Gaza is breathing new life into some very old, and very ugly, demons. This is not unusual; police and Jewish civil rights organisations have long observed a noticeable spike in antisemitic incidents each time the Israeli-Palestinian conflict flares.
...
The Netherlands' main antisemitism watchdog, Cidi, had more than 70 calls from alarmed Jewish citizens in one week last month; the average is normally three to five. An Amsterdam rabbi, Binjamin Jacobs, had his front door stoned, and two Jewish women were attacked – one beaten, the other the victim of arson – after they hung Israeli flags from their balconies. In Belgium, a woman was reportedly turned away from a shop with the words: "We don't currently sell to Jews."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/07/antisemitism-rise-europe-worst-since-nazis

This article is so misleading. Why? Fear? Agenda? It is *not* Germans, French, Dutch, Belgian and others attacking Jews in Europe. Jewish citizens in these countries are being attacked by resident Islamic immigrants from the Middle East and Northern Africa.

You seem to be trying to connect "far right" parties" with the rise of anti-semitism in Europe. You should define "far right." To me, the phrase does not mean anti-semitic, and it does not mean racist. To me, "far-right" means "fewer government bureaucrats and regulations, less governmental intrusion into my private life, lower taxes and more personal freedom and individual liberty." The fact that people vote against the growth of taxes and government bureaucracy, does not imply they are racists.

The rise of anti-semitism in Europe is a logical development of the growth of Islamic populations in Western European countries. Jews and Synagogues are being attacked by Moslems, not "far-right" political parties.

Yaks
28-11-2014, 09:49
Right is conservative politics. far rights is Nazism/Neo-nazism/fascism.

Yes there are attacks by muslims(immigrants and otherwise) on Jews in Europe. But that isn't the case in Hungary now is it? And neo-nazi attacks on Jews are there and self evident-even without the muslims. Although some groups-like in Britain-have laid off their attack on Jews to focus on muslims, even trying to ally themselves with Jews. But most sensible Jews know once they finish with the muslims, the Jews will be the next target.

Uncle Wally
28-11-2014, 11:12
"another country / people come to my mind to your comment. who will NEVER let bygones be bygones and accept an apology. they rub the noses of the other people in the muck every day.
the =now= generation also has enough of this. they were not born at that time. can't be held responsible. and still are made feel communal guilty over and over again and again, suppose 100 years will not enough to pay and pay and pay." <<< This statement is clearly not about Israel. It is about a specific event in the past, one very obvious event that Ben the Austrian has issue with.


Israel uses that "specific event" all the time to bring horror on Arabs.

Fantastika
28-11-2014, 15:04
Right is conservative politics. far rights is Nazism/Neo-nazism/fascism.

Yes there are attacks by muslims(immigrants and otherwise) on Jews in Europe. But that isn't the case in Hungary now is it? And neo-nazi attacks on Jews are there and self evident-even without the muslims. Although some groups-like in Britain-have laid off their attack on Jews to focus on muslims, even trying to ally themselves with Jews. But most sensible Jews know once they finish with the muslims, the Jews will be the next target.

To take the tiny country of Hungary, where non-violent anti-Semitism enjoys a certain level of popularity, and claim that all Europe is the same, is absurd. In France and Belgium, anti-Semitism is much less socially acceptable, but violence, especially by Muslim immigrants, is much more common.

FatAndy
30-11-2014, 16:55
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/30/11/2014/547af946cbb20f9b4190043f - eighth humanitarian convoy has arrived to DNR/LNR from RF, over 1K tonn of food and building/construction materials for repairing of damaged buildings. \

It was the first RF convoy which Ukrainian border guard officers were lucky to inspect. :)

Russian Lad
30-11-2014, 17:33
Do you read what you type?

Yes. Grads, Smerchs, all sorts of tanks, Tochka-Us have been used, all sorts of air defence systems, what not. Allegedly, they were all captured from the Ukr army of course. By the local peasants and miners who all served in the army and who are like hands in gloves with this gear. And some Russian paratroopers got lost in the Ukrainian fields while picking up berries and mushrooms for the Moscow orphans while other Russian soldiers and officers (thousands of them) preferred to spend their vacation month fighting as volunteers against the Ukrainian nazi government instead of going to Turkish and Egyptian resorts with their families. Have I missed anything?
By the way, have you read the recent interview by Strelkov-Girkin (a Moscow resident) who openly stated: "I have pulled the trigger of this war." Need a link?

TolkoRaz
30-11-2014, 18:31
There will be plenty more before the end of the year to ensure enjoyable New Year celebrations for the oppressed NovoRusskis! ;)

VVP will make much political capital out of further humanitarian convoys :)

Slava Rossii! :)

Russian Lad
30-11-2014, 19:35
And don't forget, Russian soldiers are the only soldiers in the world who get to take their tanks, artillery systems and anti-aircraft missile systems with them when they go on holiday!

You may be wrong about that, because most likely the local separatists captured everything in Ukraine (disarming the stupid Ukr nazi with their bare hands) and had piles of armaments just waiting for the volunteers who crossed the border pretending to be artists painting sunflower fields and sunsets and then just running through the border when no one was looking. It is really strange that Rossiya24 hasn't offered similar explanations yet, I would expect more imagination from their highly paid liars.

TolkoRaz
30-11-2014, 19:39
You may be wrong about that, because most likely the local separatists captured everything in Ukraine (disarming the stupid Ukr nazi with their bare hands) and had piles of armaments just waiting for the volunteers who crossed the border pretending to be artists painting sunflower fields and sunsets and then just running through the border when no one was looking. It is really strange that Rossiya24 hasn't offered similar explanations yet, I would expect more imagination from their highly paid liars.

So, where were the UKRNazis? Asleep or filling their faces with Poroshenko's chocolates?

Russian Lad
30-11-2014, 19:40
Slava Rossii!

It sounds sort of hysterical at this point, but do go on, I enjoy this agony... :thumbsup::coffee::10220::ok:

Russian Lad
30-11-2014, 19:43
So, where were the UKRNazis? Asleep or filling their faces with Poroshenko's chocolates?

Channel1 reported that they were busy procuring themselves with plots of land and Russian speaking slaves. They were also busy crucifying Russian speaking babies, Rossiya24 and Channel1 covered this too. It explains it.

‘анде€о↋ покƒпаŽ‚ €ƒсски… €абов - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Du7AYh_58

FatAndy
30-11-2014, 19:48
It sounds sort of hysterical at this point, but do go on, I enjoy this agony... :thumbsup::coffee::10220::ok:
And we do the same with your broken "grammophone", comrade... ;)

Russian Lad
30-11-2014, 19:50
And we do the same with your broken "grammophone", comrade...

Wishful thinking. It is tuned up to the music and in the excellent working order.

bydand
30-11-2014, 22:19
Wishful thinking. It is tuned up to the music and in the excellent working order.

Much unlike WillyWally's gramophone.

And the beat goes on...

Uncle Wally
30-11-2014, 23:32
Much unlike WillyWally's gramophone.

And the beat goes on...


No mine is working fine.

You know it ain't over until the fat lady sing.