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Russian Lad
30-11-2014, 23:35
You know it ain't over until the fat lady sing.

Or the dwarf pushes the daises, metaphorically speaking. It is not over until then, I agree.

FatAndy
01-12-2014, 11:19
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/547b6e1fcbb20f0c41a0aae7 - convoy #8 is back to RF territory.

http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/547b013acbb20f5b8c5ab184 - MChS is pteparing convoy #9.

Judge
01-12-2014, 13:20
Yes. Grads, Smerchs, all sorts of tanks, Tochka-Us have been used, all sorts of air defence systems, what not. Allegedly, they were all captured from the Ukr army of course. By the local peasants and miners who all served in the army and who are like hands in gloves with this gear.

Grads and Smerchs is not all sorts except nukes, you make it sound like Russia's full range of weapons are being used,which is not true..
We discussed before about peasants and miners that they could have had military training when younger.

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 13:39
Ok, we can move my answer here too then. I have answered to this one.

Judge
01-12-2014, 13:46
They have used enough to subdue the Ukrainian army on the separatists-controlled territories. And they have used a lot. I agree, not the whole arsenal maybe, but it was/is? still a war, not just some sporadic shooting. It is fratricide. You are clutching at straws and it looks desperate. Just admit the facts that stare at you.

Why am I clutching, I'm just pointing out that not all weapons besides nukes are used ,and that it's not a full scale war...

FatAndy
01-12-2014, 13:52
Grads and Smerchs is not all sorts except nukes, you make it sound like Russia's full range of weapons are being used,which is not true..
We discussed before about peasants and miners that they could have had military training when younger.
Buratino and Solntsepyok (aka Pinoccio and Sunburn, aka ТОС-1 and ТОС-1А) - not yet.
Volume explosion rounds (both rockets or artillery) - not yet.
Usual high-calibre artillery (100+ mm) - only dummy rounds, not frag/demol yet (otherwise more civil causalities).
Napalm - not yet, although both sides accused one another about phosphoric rounds.

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 14:07
I'm just pointing out that not all weapons besides nukes are used ,and that it's not a full scale war...

Ok, call it restrained fratricide, if it suits your tastes better.

AstarD
01-12-2014, 14:08
It's only "war" if every single weapon is being used? Interesting definition.

Judge
01-12-2014, 14:10
Ok, call it restrained fratricide, if it suits your tastes better.

Whatever we call it, it's not good for both sides...for now there's some sort of truce, fingers crossed it keeps.

Judge
01-12-2014, 14:11
It's only "war" if every single weapon is being used? Interesting definition.

no one is saying that..:rolleyes:

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 14:17
no one is saying that..

Thank you for finally admitting it was/is a war. And Strelkov-Girkin, a Moscow resident with the Russian passport, has clearly stated who started it: "I have pulled the trigger of this war". Again, need a link? You are trying to deny the obvious and confirmed fact. It isn't going to get you very far.

Judge
01-12-2014, 14:20
Thank you for finally admitting it was/is a war. And Strelkov-Girkin, a Moscow resident, has clearly stated who started it. You are trying to deny the obvious and confirmed fact. It isn't going to get you very far.

I said that it's not a full scale war cos you talked about all sorts of weapons are being used except nukes, which from what you mean, a full range of weapons are being used, and when called out on it, you only mention 2 types of weapons...and yeah, lots of tanks..
Like the thread title says, it's a Civil War..happy now..

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 14:23
I said that it's not a full scale war cos you talked about all sorts of weapons are being used except nukes, which from what you mean, a full range of weapons are being used, and when called out on it, you only mention 2 types of weapons...and yeah, lots of tanks..

You are trying to pick at separate words in your desperation, and it looks pitiful. Ok, except for the nukes and what FatAndy mentioned. It doesn't make your case any better. It is not civil war because Strelkov-Girkin is not a Ukrainian resident. And because of 1000 other facts we both know. Just like Bay of Pigs was not civil war. FatAndy deliberately doctored the title of this thread, it was called differently. A good old song comes to mind:
–‘–į–Ľ–Ľ–į–ī–į –ź—‚–ĺ—Ā–į (–”'–ź—€—‚–į–Ĺ—Œ—Ź–Ĺ –ł —‚—€–ł –ľ—ƒ—ˆ–ļ–Ķ—‚–Ķ—€–į) (—„–ł–Ľ—Œ–ľ) - YouTube

Judge
01-12-2014, 14:29
You are trying to pick at separate words in your desperation, and it looks pitiful. Ok, except for the nukes and what FatAndy mentioned. It doesn't make your case any better.

What's desperate about calling you out on your drama, you mentioned all sorts of weapons except nukes,which to all would mean loads of different types of weapons.Your over dramatizing the situation 'again' is what this is all about.

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 14:36
What's desperate about calling you out on your drama, you mentioned all sorts of weapons except nukes,which to all would mean loads of different types of weapons.Your over dramatizing the situation 'again' is what this is all about.

Please try to follow the conversation. I have already agreed to include what FatAndy has mentioned into the "except for" list. But again, it doesn't make the result less dramatic or the case you are defending any better. There is no way whitewashing fratricide. Ask Rusmeister, he will tell you a story from the Bible regarding this. The drama is not mine, I neither made it nor supported it. If you believe what you are seeing is not drama but a circus or comedy, well, I am not laughing with you.

Judge
01-12-2014, 14:38
Just like Bay of Pigs was not civil war
:confused:
What's that got to do with this, it was a failed invasion backed by the CIA.

Judge
01-12-2014, 14:41
Please try to follow the conversation. I have already agreed to include what FatAndy has mentioned into the "except for" list. But again, it doesn't make the result less dramatic or the case you are defending any better. There is no way whitewashing fratricide. Ask Rusmeister, he will tell you a story from the Bible regarding this.

Following it I'm trying,now you're talking about bays and pigs in Cuba.....it would have been a none discussion if you didn't mention nukes..:)

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 14:43
it was a failed invasion backed by the CIA.

Exactly. A failed invasion.

Judge
01-12-2014, 14:47
Exactly. A failed invasion.

So, Russia's failed to invade Ukraine, is that it?

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 14:54
So, Russia's failed to invade Ukraine, is that it?

Partially succeeded, since the Crimea is Russian now, but this side line story is far from completion. The plan was to go all the way to Transnistria minimum. And I think this was plan #2. Plan #1 was most likely making Yanuk lead the Russia-backed opposition all the way to Kiev. Plan #1 failed, so the side line plan for the Crimea was successfully launched. Plan #2 failed. Now were are witnessing plan #3 - LNR and DNR. Partially failed, long-term - a threat to Russia itself. All according to the Bible story. Ask Rusmeister about how it ended if you don't remember.

Yaks
01-12-2014, 15:13
technically war is a legal term. You declare war or breach conditions "An act of war"-but even the latter is up for dispute. In all the conflicts the US has been in, it has only been "To war" 5 times in its history. And that is going all the way back to the beginning. War means all trade ceases between the two states, embassies are closed, ambassadors recalled etc.

Just sayin, since we are being pedantic.

Russian Lad
01-12-2014, 15:21
technically war is a legal term. You declare war or breach conditions "An act of war"-but even the latter is up for dispute. In all the conflicts the US has been in, it has only been "To war" 5 times in its history. And that is going all the way back to the beginning. War means all trade ceases between the two states, embassies are closed, ambassadors recalled etc.

Just sayin, since we are being pedantic.

Well, let me introduce to the term "hybrid war" then. It is not that it is something new - in Chechnya it started as the hybrid war too. The war in Afghanistan was denied in a similar way. Even the involvement in Finland was sort of denied initially by Stalin. We have a certain tradition.

FatAndy
01-12-2014, 15:22
War means all trade ceases between the two states, embassies are closed, ambassadors recalled etc.
... citizens of both sides are interned, sometimes including members of families... :)

FatAndy
01-12-2014, 16:32
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/547c653fcbb20f7c9596d57d - the chief of state administration of UkrRail is fired by Yatsenyuk. What an adequate decision...

Yaks
01-12-2014, 16:36
... citizens of both sides are interned, sometimes including members of families... :)

Yes generally that too. My Grandparents and great grandparents on our Prussian side were interned in Australia in world war 1 and went from owning one third of the sugar cane crop to a few thousand acres split among family members-the rest seized by the government. Despite the fact my family came to oz in 1860s when there wasn't even a "country" called Germany.

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 02:28
I have found this video on youtube, wanted to share this with you. Beats any Hollywood movie. Ukrainians are probably the bravest nation on the planet. Just watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsE7lYVa5kk

zzhhst
08-12-2014, 02:55
Lethal AID TO Ukraine under review.


H. RES. 758

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

December 4, 2014
RESOLUTION

Whereas the Russian Federation has subjected Ukraine to a campaign of political, economic, and military aggression for the purpose of establishing its domination over the country and progressively erasing its independence;


It passed by the way. Things are going to get crazy after the 1st of the year. May God have mercy on us all!!!

Whereas the Russian Federationís invasion of, and military operations on, Ukrainian territory represent gross violations of Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity and a violation of international law, including the Russian Federation's obligations under the United Nations Charter;

Whereas the Russian Federation has, since February 2014, violated each of the 10 principles of the 1975 Helsinki Accords in its relations with Ukraine;

Whereas the Russian Federationís forcible occupation and illegal annexation of Crimea and its continuing support for separatist and paramilitary forces in eastern Ukraine are violations of its obligations under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, in which it pledged to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine, and to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine;

Whereas the Russian Federation has provided military equipment, training, and other assistance to separatist and paramilitary forces in eastern Ukraine that has resulted in over 4,000 civilian deaths, hundreds of thousands of civilian refugees, and widespread destruction;

Whereas the Ukrainian military remains at a significant disadvantage compared to the armed forces of the Russian Federation in terms of size and technological sophistication;

Whereas the United States strongly supports efforts to assist Ukraine to defend its territory and sovereignty against military aggression by the Russian Federation and by separatist forces;

Whereas the terms of the cease-fire specified in the Minsk Protocol that was signed on September 5, 2014, by representatives of the Government of Ukraine, the Russian Federation, and the Russian-led separatists in the eastern area of Ukraine have been repeatedly violated by the Russian Federation and the separatist forces it supports;

Whereas separatist forces in areas they controlled in eastern Ukraine prevented the holding of elections on May 25, 2014, for a new President of Ukraine and on October 26, 2014, for a new Rada, thereby preventing the people of eastern Ukraine from exercising their democratic right to select their candidates for office in free and fair elections;

Whereas on November 2, 2014, separatist forces in eastern Ukraine held fraudulent and illegal elections in areas they controlled for the supposed purpose of choosing leaders of the illegitimate local political entities they have declared;

Whereas the Russian Federation continues to provide the military, political, and economic support without which the separatist forces could not continue to maintain their areas of control;

Whereas the reestablishment of peace and security in Ukraine requires the full withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukrainian territory, the resumption of the Government of Ukraineís control over all of the countryís international borders, the disarming of the separatist and paramilitary forces in the east, an end to Russiaís use of its energy exports and trade barriers to apply economic and political pressure, and an end to Russian interference in Ukraineís internal affairs;

Whereas Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, a civilian airliner, was destroyed by a missile fired by Russian-backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine, resulting in the loss of 298 innocent lives;

Whereas the Russian Federation continues to supply the vast majority of arms purchases, which include anti-aircraft missile systems and other lethal weapons, to the Bashar Assad regime in Syria, a state sponsor of terrorism that is actively backed by Hezbollah, a sophisticated terrorist group hostile to the United States and its close allies;

Whereas the Russian Federation has protected the Assad regime and backed its brutal assault against the Syrian people;

Whereas the Russian Federation has used and is continuing to use coercive economic measures, including the manipulation of energy prices and supplies, as well as trade restrictions, to place political and economic pressure on Ukraine;

Whereas France agreed to sell to the Russian Federation two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships in 2011 for $1.7 billion;

Whereas Russian possession of these ships would be a destabilizing addition to the Russian military, which would likely have boosted its ability to invade Crimea;

Whereas given the Russian invasion of sovereign territory of the Republic of Ukraine in Crimea and elsewhere and its dangerous behavior throughout the region, France decided to suspend delivery of the Mistral-class warships to the Russian Federation;

Whereas purchase of the two Mistral-class warships by North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) countries would expand NATOís capabilities, resolve Franceís legitimate concern over the cost of the ships, and eliminate a potential threat to countries in Eastern Europe;

Whereas the Russian Federation invaded the Republic of Georgia in August 2008, continues to station military forces in the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and is implementing measures intended to progressively integrate these regions into the Russian Federation, including by signing a treaty between Georgiaís Abkhazia Region and the Russian Federation on November 24, 2014;

Whereas the Russian Federation continues to subject the Republic of Georgia to political and military intimidation, economic coercion, and other forms of aggression in an effort to establish its control of the country and to prevent Georgia from establishing closer relations with the European Union and the United States;

Whereas the Russian Federation continues to station military forces in the Transniestria region of Moldova in violation of the express will of the Government of Moldova and of its Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) commitments;

Whereas the Russian Federation continues to provide support to the illegal separatist regime in the Transniestria region of Moldova;

Whereas the Russian Federation continues to subject Moldova to political and military intimidation, economic coercion, and other forms of aggression in an effort to establish its control of the country and to prevent efforts by Moldova to establish closer relations with the European Union and the United States;

Whereas the Russian Federation acceded to the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty obligation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in a declaration issued at Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, in October 1992;

Whereas under the terms of the INF Treaty, a flight-test or deployment of any INF-banned weapon delivery vehicle by the Russian Federation constitutes a militarily significant violation of the INF Treaty;

Whereas on April 2, 2014, the Commander, U.S. European Command, and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, General Breedlove, stated that, A weapon capability that violates the INF, that is introduced into the greater European land mass is absolutely a tool that will have to be dealt with * * *. I would not judge how the alliance will choose to react, but I would say they will have to consider what to do about it * * *. It canít go unanswered.;

Whereas on July 29, 2014, the United States Department of State released its report on the Adherence to and Compliance with Arms Control, Nonproliferation, and Disarmament Agreements and Commitments, as required by Section 403 of the Arms Control and Disarmament Act, for calendar year 2013, which found that, [t]he United States has determined that the Russian Federation is in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles;

Whereas concerns also exist with respect to a new Russian ballistic missile, the RSĖ26, which, according to reports, has been tested on multiple occasions at intermediate ranges, and in different configurations, which would be covered by the interpretative statements the United States Senate relied upon when it ratified the INF Treaty in May 1988;

Whereas the Russian Federation has requested the approval of new sensors and new aircraft to be flown over the United States and Europe as part of the Treaty on Open Skies, and serious concerns have been raised regarding impacts to United States national security if such approval is given;

Whereas on November 11, 2014, the Commander, U.S. European Command, and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, General Breedlove, stated that, Russian forces capable of being nuclear are being moved to the Crimea Peninsula;

Whereas according to reports, the Government of the Russian Federation has repeatedly engaged in the infiltration of, and attacks on, computer networks of the United States Government, as well as individuals and private entities, for the purpose of illicitly acquiring information and disrupting operations, including by supporting Russian individuals and entities engaged in these actions;

Whereas the political, military, and economic aggression against Ukraine and other countries by the Russian Federation underscores the enduring importance of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as the cornerstone of collective Euro-Atlantic defense;

Whereas the United States reaffirms its obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty, especially Article 5 which states that an armed attack against one or more of the treaty signatories shall be considered an attack against them all;

Whereas the Russian Federation is continuing to use its supply of energy as a means of political and economic coercion against Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, and other European countries;

Whereas the United States strongly supports energy diversification initiatives in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, and other European countries to reduce the ability of the Russian Federation to use its supply of energy for political and economic coercion, including the development of domestic sources of energy, increased efficiency, and substituting Russian energy resources with imports from other countries;

Whereas the Russian Federation continues to conduct an aggressive propaganda effort in Ukraine in which false information is used to subvert the authority of the legitimate national government, undermine stability, promote ethnic dissension, and incite violence;

Whereas the Russian Federation has expanded the presence of its state-sponsored media in national languages across central and western Europe with the intent of using news and information to distort public opinion and obscure Russian political and economic influence in Europe;

Whereas expanded efforts by United States international broadcasting across all media in the Russian and Ukrainian languages are needed to counter Russian propaganda and to provide the people of Ukraine and the surrounding regions with access to credible and balanced information;

Whereas the Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), Incorporated continue to represent a minority market share in Ukraine and other regional states with significant ethno-linguistic Russian populations who increasingly obtain their local and international news from Russian state-sponsored media outlets;

Whereas the United States International Programming to Ukraine and Neighboring Regions Act of 2014 (Public Law 113Ė96) requires the Voice of America and RFE/RL, Incorporated to provide programming content to target populations in Ukraine and Moldova 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, including at least 8 weekly hours of total original video and television content and 14 weekly hours of total audio content while expanding cooperation with local media outlets and deploying greater content through multimedia platforms and mobile devices; and

Whereas Vladimir Putin has established an increasingly authoritarian regime in the Russian Federation through fraudulent elections, the persecution and jailing of political opponents, the elimination of independent media, the seizure of key sectors of the economy and enabling supporters to enrich themselves through widespread corruption, and implementing a strident propaganda campaign to justify Russian aggression against other countries and repression in Russia, among other actions: Now, therefore, be it

That the House of Representativesó
(1)strongly supports the efforts by President Poroshenko and the people of Ukraine to establish a lasting peace in their country that includes the full withdrawal of Russian forces from the territory of Ukraine, full control of Ukraineís international borders, the disarming of separatist and paramilitary forces in eastern Ukraine, the adoption of policies to reduce the ability of the Russian Federation to use energy exports and trade barriers as weapons to apply economic and political pressure, and an end to interference by the Russian Federation in the internal affairs of Ukraine;
(2)affirms the right of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, and all countries to exercise their sovereign rights within their internationally recognized borders free from outside intervention, and to conduct their foreign policy in accordance with their determination of the best interests of their peoples;
(3)condemns the continuing political, economic, and military aggression by the Russian Federation against Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova and the continuing violation of their sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity;
(4)states that the military intervention by the Russian Federation in Ukraineó
(A)is in breach of its obligations under the United Nations Charter;
(B)is in clear violation of each of the 10 principles of the 1975 Helsinki Accords;
(C)is in violation of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in which it pledged to respect the independence, sovereignty, and existing borders of Ukraine and to refrain from the threat of the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine; and
(D)poses a threat to international peace and security;
(5)calls on the Russian Federation to reverse its illegal annexation of Crimea, to end its support of the separatist forces in Crimea, and to remove its military forces from that region other than those operating in strict accordance with its 1997 agreement on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet Stationing on the Territory of Ukraine;
(6)calls on the President to cooperate with United States allies and partners in Europe and other countries around the world to refuse to recognize any de jure or de facto sovereignty of the Russian Federation over Crimea, its airspace, or its territorial waters;
(7)calls on the Russian Federation to remove its military forces and military equipment from the territory of Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova, and to end its political, military, and economic support of separatist forces;
(8)calls on the Russian Federation and the separatist forces it supports and controls in Ukraine to end their violations of the cease-fire announced in Minsk on September 5, 2014;
(9)calls on the President to cooperate with United States allies and partners in Europe and other countries around the world to impose visa bans, targeted asset freezes, sectoral sanctions, and other measures on the Russian Federation and its leadership with the goal of compelling it to end its violation of Ukraineís sovereignty and territorial integrity, to remove its military forces and equipment from Ukrainian territory, and to end its support of separatist and paramilitary forces;
(10)calls on the President to provide the Government of Ukraine with lethal and non-lethal defense articles, services, and training required to effectively defend its territory and sovereignty;
(11)calls on the President to provide the Government of Ukraine with appropriate intelligence and other relevant information in a timely manner to assist the Government of Ukraine to defend its territory and sovereignty;
(12)calls on North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) allies and United States partners in Europe and other nations around the world to suspend all military cooperation with Russia, including prohibiting the sale to the Russian Government of lethal and non-lethal military equipment;
(13)reaffirms the commitment of the United States to its obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty, especially Article 5, and calls on all Alliance member states to provide their full share of the resources needed to ensure their collective defense;
(14)urges the President, in consultation with Congress, to conduct a review of the force posture, readiness, and responsibilities of United States Armed Forces and the forces of other members of NATO to determine if the contributions and actions of each are sufficient to meet the obligations of collective self-defense under Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty and to specify the measures needed to remedy any deficiencies;
(15)welcomes the decision of France to indefinitely suspend the delivery of the Mistral-class warships to the Russian Federation and urges the United States, France, NATO, and other partners to engage in consultations and consider all alternative acquisition options for such warships which would not include transfer of the ships to the Russian Federation;
(16)urges the President to publicly hold the Russian Federation accountable for violations of its obligations under the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty and to take action to bring the Russian Federation back into compliance with the Treaty;
(17)urges the President to work with Asian, European, and other allies to develop a comprehensive strategy to ensure the Russian Federation is not able to gain any benefit by its development of military systems that violate the INF Treaty;
(18)believes the emplacement by the Russian Federation of its nuclear weapons on Ukrainian territory would constitute a provocative and destabilizing move;
(19)calls on Ukraine and other countries to support energy diversification initiatives to reduce the ability of the Russian Federation to use its energy exports as a means of applying political or economic pressure, including by promoting energy efficiency and reverse natural gas flows from Western Europe, and calls on the United States to promote increased natural gas exports and energy efficiency;
(20)calls on the President and the United States Department of State to develop a strategy for multilateral coordination to produce or otherwise procure and distribute news and information in the Russian language to countries with significant Russian-speaking populations which maximizes the use of existing platforms for content delivery such as the Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), Incorporated, leverages indigenous public-private partnerships for content production, and seeks in-kind contributions from regional state governments;
(21)calls on the United States Department of State to identify positions at key diplomatic posts in Europe to evaluate the political, economic, and cultural influence of Russia and Russian state-sponsored media and to coordinate with host governments on appropriate responses;
(22)calls on the Russian Federation to cease its support for the Assad regime in Syria;
(23)calls on the President to publicly and privately demand the Russian Federation cease its destabilizing behavior at every opportunity and in every engagement between the United States and its officials and the Russian Federation and its officials;
(24)calls upon the Russian Federation to seek a mutually beneficial relationship with the United States that is based on respect for the independence and sovereignty of all countries and their right to freely determine their future, including their relationship with other nations and international organizations, without interference, intimidation, or coercion by other countries; and
(25)calls for the reestablishment of a close and cooperative relationship between the people of the United States and the Russian people based on the shared pursuit of democracy, human rights, and peace among all nations.

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 04:00
Lethal AID TO Ukraine under review.

Ukraine is doing ok even without that, I don't think there is a real need for this at this stage. Economic pressure should be increased on Rissia, it will be enough. Well, even the current pressure is sufficient - most results of it are yet to come, it takes time even to stop a car.

Uncle Wally
08-12-2014, 04:02
I have found this video on youtube, wanted to share this with you. Beats any Hollywood movie. Ukrainians are probably the bravest nation on the planet. Just watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsE7lYVa5kk




You do understand the protester and the cops were all shot by the same weapon right? What should that tell you?

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 04:05
What should that tell you?

That you are a patented not very bright person. Watch the video, it is quite clear there who is attacking whom, who is shooting and how the parties are armed, en masse. You want a close-up? Suit yourself, the view from the other side - you can see them shooting and reloading - the green and blue cover at 0.28 here - you can see it at 20.08 in the first video, to the left there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6jbpD6fGT0

zzhhst
08-12-2014, 04:27
Ukraine is doing ok even without that, I don't think there is a real need for this at this stage. Economic pressure should be increased on Rissia, it will be enough. Well, even the current pressure is sufficient - most results of it are yet to come, it takes time even to stop a car.

Lad I agree but the problem is that it will get out of control. "American side" Obama is passive. After the 1st of the year it will be full on Republicans in the house and senate leading on to a Republican president. It may be another Bush Jeb Bush to be exact. Obama is basically finished until the end of term. Your version of the Duma is in control. With more power than Obama.

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 04:32
Lad I agree but the problem is that it will get out of control. "American side" Obama is passive. After the 1st of the year it will be full on Republicans in the house and senate leading on to a Republican president. It may be another Bush Jeb Bush to be exact. Obama is basically finished until the end of term.

I know what you mean, but don't worry too much about that, such decisions are taken by all the parties, doesn't really matter who is the US president. By arming the Ukrs the US would basically give a strong favor to the current Russians in power, they will shout: "See, they are killing Russian speakers with American weapons now!" There is no need for that if we really want to see something productive done in Russia itself. So far Obama has been doing everything correctly. There are many fine points like that that need to be taken into account.
In general, just to make you feel a bit better, we say Чёрт не так страшен, как его малюют (The devil is not as scary as he is depicted). I mean, there is hope.:) He is passive for a good reason, and I am sure it has been a joint decision. It also depends on how you look at it, passive or not, the ruble and the Russian economy are paying a formidable price, the US has managed to rally up all Europe to its cause, it has been a great success so far.

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 12:53
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/54849d7fcbb20f68b02d935c - maidowns have decided to buy electricity from damned aggressive regime... :)


By arming the Ukrs the US would basically give a strong favor to the current Russians in power, they will shout: "See, they are killing Russian speakers with American weapons now!"
Comrade, walk downstairs to your mailbox, the new metodichka is there already... ;)

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 13:55
Comrade, walk downstairs to your mailbox, the new metodichka is there already...


You seem to be talking to yourself... And I strongly protest that you have moved it to this artificial thead with this nonsense title you have been doctoring. Once again, it is not a civil war. And it WILL NOT go down history books as civil war. Don't even count on this, dear USSR revanchist. Just no way.

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 14:00
And I strongly protest
Your right. And left.


Once again, it is not a civil war.
It is.


And it WILL NOT go down history books as civil war.
It will depend who'll be writing these books ;)


Don't even count on this, dear USSR revanchist. Just no way.
:agree:

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 14:08
Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
Once again, it is not a civil war.
It is.

No it is not. The rest of the world will certainly NOT view it as civil war. In Russia?

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 14:16
http://news.mail.ru/economics/20394423/?frommail=1 - Naftogaz pays damned aggressor.


The rest of the world will certainly NOT view it as civil war.
It's the right of The rest of the world. And left. :)


A piece of your post was moved there: http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=625664 .

And historical TruthЪ is restored - two different thanks compensate somewhat deleted earlier. ;)

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 14:22
Naftogaz pays damned aggressor.

I know. It is ok, we don't want WW-III started. And we want Russia and the Russians to prosper after it is all over.

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 14:25
we don't want WW-III started. And we want Russia and the Russians to prosper after it is all over.
Your Majesty, when you've obtained Ukrainian citizenship? :rasta:

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 14:26
when you've obtained Ukrainian citizenship?

I haven't. It is the collective WE of all progressive humankind and the advanced liberal international community of the Earth.

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 14:34
It is the collective WE of all progressive humankind and the advanced liberal international community of the Earth.
It may appear dangerous in your future, comrade - when all progressive humankind and the advanced liberal international community of the Earth suddenly will got an opinion, very different from yours. So IMHO it's better to speak from yourself.:11158:

Addition from 9th Dec:
Just found one nice "garik" from Igor Guberman:
Возделывая духа огород,
Кряхтит гуманитарная элита,
Издёрганная болью за народ
И сменами мигрени и колита.

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 14:38
will got an opinion, very different from yours. So IMHO it's better to speak from yourself.

If it happens and the community changes its views, I will consider the new ones, will let you know if I agree with the new views. I have expressed the prevailing current views of this community at the moment, I believe. Just as you have expressed the prevailing views of the Russian nomenklatura and apparatchiks (and a vast numbers of the brainwashed population here in Russia, I can give you that, too, the moods are beginning to change though and I am seeing the first signs of it).


It may appear dangerous in your future

Have you just threatened me?

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 14:59
Have you just threatened me?
Not yet, but I like your suggestion :)


If it happens and the community changes its views, I will consider the new ones
So you'll be just fluctuating together with the party line. It is correct. :devilish:

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 15:01
The turning point will be when the Russian population see quite well that they have been fooled regarding how great Russia is in the economic sense. They are beginning to see it every day in shops now. Prices talk better than propaganda, even the best one. You cannot have propaganda for breakfast and children refuse to eat it, too.


So you'll be just fluctuating together with the party line.

The party line conicides with my own observations. And even with the statements of the Russians who led the operation. Strelkov-Girkin (a Moscow resident) claimed: "I was the one who pulled the trigger of this war." Denis Pushilin (a Moscow resident) said: "I was the leading manager in this start-up in Ukraine". So, both sides have confirmed my views. Not sure what you rely on, since you have claimed you don't watch Rossiya24.

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 15:14
Uncle Wally gets a red card for insult.

TolkoRaz
08-12-2014, 15:36
No it is not. The rest of the world will certainly NOT view it as civil war. In Russia?

Of course it is Civil War - It is an insurgency / insurrection being led by separatist forces.

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 15:40
Wally, please keep topic. And w/o insults.

Russian Lad
08-12-2014, 15:49
insurrection being led by separatist forces.

It is not led by Ukrainian separatist forces and you know it. You are entitled to your lies of course. It is a typical Bay of Pigs, on a much larger scale.

TolkoRaz
08-12-2014, 15:57
It is not led by Ukrainian separatist forces and you know it. You are entitled to your lies of course. It is a typical Bay of Pigs, on a much larger scale.

Nazi Pigs butchering unarmed civilians!

FatAndy
08-12-2014, 17:01
Local maidowns make local Maidown in Vinnitsa: http://www.unian.net/politics/1018996-v-vinnitse-okolo-5-tyisyach-chelovek-sobralis-na-ploschadi-shevchenko.html

The circus has gone, but clowns have remained...

zzhhst
09-12-2014, 03:24
Please Please where are the Nazi? A group of armed skinheads on the Ukraine side? Hell, I see that 1 out of 5 times in the Moscow Metro. Show me proof?

Russian Lad
09-12-2014, 05:47
Local maidowns make local Maidown in Vinnitsa: http://www.unian.net/politics/101899...hevchenko.html

The circus has gone, but clowns have remained...

Envy in silence. This is right and correct. Besides, the time is ripe you begin paying closer attention to what is happening in Russia, at present in the form of economics, the ruble rate and so forth. Don't miss the day when massive layoffs begin. It will be a pivotal point. Also, I think a lot of surprises will await for us in shops, in terms of prices. Even now Tolko's beloved iphone is 10K rubles more expensive than just a month ago.


Please Please where are the Nazi? A group of armed skinheads on the Ukraine side? Hell, I see that 1 out of 5 times in the Moscow Metro. Show me proof?

Sadly, the real ones are in Russia. I haven't seen it in my wildest dreams that we would do this to Ukraine and Germany would be trying to stop us. Sometimes I want to just wake up and say it was all a bad dream. It is a real tragedy for Ukraine, it is more than just a tragedy for Russia - it is a disaster in the making. What is sort of funny, while the pilot and the crew have gone mad and are doing everything possible to crash the plane, the passengers are cheering them on, most of them. I am eyeballing the approaching earth and feel like a hostage. That's exactly how I feel in today's Russia. A f[cking hostage of seriously sick people who are determined to murder themselves.

FatAndy
09-12-2014, 09:12
Envy in silence.
Whom? Maidowns? :)


This is right and correct.
No doubts. Maidowns are unable to do anything constructive. Physically. Only "protest", yell and jump. So for them it is really right. And correct. :)


Please Please where are the Nazi?
If you mean Ukronazists, they're behind the scene. ;)

FatAndy
09-12-2014, 11:45
Democratic Maidown govt has elicited some pennies from democratic EU and buys some gas from totalitarian regime:
http://news.mail.ru/politics/20405240/?frommail=1

Judge
09-12-2014, 11:56
Democratic Maidown govt has elicited some pennies from democratic EU and buys some gas from totalitarian regime:
http://news.mail.ru/politics/20405240/?frommail=1


You pay, you get...

FatAndy
09-12-2014, 12:46
Local maidowns make local Maidown in Vinnitsa: http://www.unian.net/politics/1018996-v-vinnitse-okolo-5-tyisyach-chelovek-sobralis-na-ploschadi-shevchenko.html

The circus has gone, but clowns have remained...

Another local one is expected in Zaporozhie:
http://vesti-ukr.com/pridneprove/80852-v-zaporozhe-so-dnja-na-den-zhdut-vtoroj-vinnicy

FatAndy
09-12-2014, 15:36
http://news.mail.ru/politics/20408955/?frommail=1 - maidowns still want to build a wall on the Ukr-RF border. 8B UAH, ~500M USD.

TolkoRaz
09-12-2014, 15:41
http://news.mail.ru/politics/20408955/?frommail=1 - maidowns still want to build a wall on the Ukr-RF border. 8B UAH, ~500M USD.

Have they not heard of the Gaza Tunnels? ;)

FatAndy
09-12-2014, 17:01
Or US-MEX ones :)

zzhhst
10-12-2014, 03:57
Why did Russia just take Crimea? I understand strategic importance access to the Black Sea to stop Western movement etc... However, don't you think it would have been allot better to just simply buy it? They were basically renting the whole region to begin with? Certainly, there could have been some kind of agreement. So basically, I am a Nazi simply because of the direction of the world I was born in? I had family that fought and died in the Great War as well.

Russian Lad
10-12-2014, 04:16
They were basically renting the whole region to begin with?

Only the naval base in Sevastopol was rented, the peninsula remained Ukrainian, Sevastopol as the city - too, but the base was Russian. There is no real strategic importance for Russia there, we still have access to the Black Sea via Novorossiysk. That's besides 2000 nukes. On the whole, though, the population was largely pro-Russian there, but I doubt 93% of them (or was it 97%, the referendum result?). It was a complex issue that should have been negotiated - well, we still had the lease till 2049. However, it went far beyond the Crimea, there was also Donb**** the attempt to go all the way to Transnistria. The whole vector has been the restoration of the previous USSR borders, except for maybe some bits and pieces. It has not passed unnoticed, and now we have what we have. I think the West let Russia take the Crimea knowing it is a good trap. The whole Donbass affair left me puzzled - I could not see any profit for Russia in this. Only the desire to hurt Ukraine even more - well, they have gained the opposite, it has only united their nation. I cannot see any single positive outcome for Russia in all this, especially long term. And I can see a very long list of negative consequences, some have materialized already, others are yet to materialize. That's why I despise the "patriots" - they have ruined my country - frankly, I don't care about their wretched lives and what is going to become of them, but they have definitely ruined the country I live in, not just their own lives.

FatAndy
11-12-2014, 12:14
So basically, I am a Nazi simply because of the direction of the world I was born in?
Not yet. Hope you won't, but everything depends on you.


I had family that fought and died in the Great War as well.
Which side?

Fantastika
12-12-2014, 07:40
I was watching C-Span.org, to see the how fast the cowardly Republicans would cave in and give Obama everything and all the money he wanted, and at the last minute this woman jumps up to address the Congress, announcing she is the leader of the "Congressional Ukrainian Caucus" and calling on the Senate to pass this bill, H.R. 758, for military aid to Ukraine.

http://www.fairbrothers.com/expatphotos/kaptur.jpg

The CUC "serves to lend support for Ukraine in its process of democratization and market-oriented reforms, according to its charter." However, the Congresswoman, Marcy Kaptur of Ohio, claims "Russia has invaded Ukraine" and her caucus seeks to send military aid to Kiev, to stop "Putin's invasion of and aggression in Ukraine." (Tanks, missiles, bombs and warplanes will somehow support the CUC's goals of "market-oriented reforms" and "democratization")

While Kaptur is not a native Ukrainian, her grandparents are. Kaptur also heads the "Congressional Hungarian Caucus," and the "Congressional Polish Caucus."

The bill now goes to the Senate, where it will probably pass. The bill calls on Obama to provide lethal military support to Kiev. If Obama does implement it, he will likely provide such aid covertly. (My opinion is the US is already covertly supplying Kiev, through Lithuania).

Now the question is, what will Obama do? Methinks he will just watch basketball in the winter, and go out for more golf in the spring, and leave this Ukraine thing to the Pentagoons and NATO. And what will these rogue organizations covertly or openly do? We may well have a fine fricking world-class mess by June.

Two more years for the fool on the White House hill. How much more chaos and disorder will the Nobel Peace prize winner accomplish?

http://www.inquisitr.com/1660619/Ukraine-lethal-aid-and-weapons-authorized-by-U-S-House-resolution-758-Will-Obama-take-on-Vladimir-Putin (http://www.inquisitr.com/1660619/ukraine-lethal-aid-and-weapons-authorized-by-u-s-house-resolution-758-will-obama-take-on-vladimir-putin/)

Benedikt
12-12-2014, 09:35
the Germans got burned once in Russia, this time Frau Merkel will get it a second time....

the French were sent home backing, won't succeed this time either...

And the USA, NEVER won ANY war, outside their borders.... let them try pi**ss against the wind, will only get their pants wet.

fenrir
12-12-2014, 10:33
And the USA, NEVER won ANY war, outside their borders.

Really? We didn't win the Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, WW I, WW II, Korean War (the goal was to keep S. Korea from being conquered by the North) and Gulf War I?

Yaks
12-12-2014, 13:55
the Germans got burned once in Russia, this time Frau Merkel will get it a second time....

the French were sent home backing, won't succeed this time either...

And the USA, NEVER won ANY war, outside their borders.... let them try pi**ss against the wind, will only get their pants wet.

hmm let's see. Russia lost the war against the Turks, lost the great game against the Brits, lost world war 1. Imperial Russia was defeated by the bolsheviks. Chechnya is still going on. Lost the war against Afghanistan. Lost the cold war. Need I go on? Even defeating Napoleon meant losing Moscow and Stalin lost 5 times the men the Germans did fighting on two fronts. Of course if you use men like cannon fodder that is the result. Plus the Russians had to make use of the lend lease and borrow armament and equipment from America to beat the Germans. Really you should have a sense of perspective.

Talking about countries "Always losing a war that isn't on their soil" is just silly.And hypocrisy works both ways.

bydand
12-12-2014, 14:50
And the USA, NEVER won ANY war, outside their borders.... let them try pi**ss against the wind, will only get their pants wet.

Japanese might tell you a different perspective.

Fantastika
12-12-2014, 15:13
US won every war outside their borders, until Korea, which was a stalemate.

Vietnam was not defined as a war, it was fought like an American football game, where the enemy could go the length of the field to get scores, but the Americans limited themselves to only the 50-yard line when on offense. Impossible to win a war so defined.

After that, Bush I won the first Iraq war, but did not finish it.

Bush II then won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but Obama retreated and the US has now lost.

The war against radical Islam, in Syria, Chechnya, Iraq, and dozens of other countries on a lower scale, will not be ended until there is an accommodation or settlement with radical Islam. The West does not have the moral backbone to confront radical Islam, because Western Civilization is no longer based on traditional Christian morality. However, Islam will eventually lose, when confronted by a stronger morality, and they are forced to recognize and grant human rights to their subjects.

Suuryaa
12-12-2014, 15:16
However, Islam will eventually lose, when confronted by a stronger morality

And where's that morality going to come from?

AstarD
12-12-2014, 15:19
The Lizard Overlords will help us and make everything better by outlawing banks and paper currency.

Suuryaa
12-12-2014, 15:27
The Lizard Overlords will help us and make everything better by outlawing banks and paper currency.

I don't believe in that lizard theory.

AstarD
12-12-2014, 15:35
I don't believe in that lizard theory.To them we are like primitive creatures. Look at us fighting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djK_ucSYpaw

Fantastika
12-12-2014, 15:38
And where's that morality going to come from?

Well, according to Nostradamus, there will be a new religion, which will become influential from 2018 or so, until it is worldwide by 2022-2025.

In practical terms, it seems that when the human race is in such chaos, like today, and things look bad, humanity makes a comeback, get a solution. Hitler and Tojo's wars of racism and conquest were overcome by the combined efforts of the rest of the world. The seemingly endless Cold War, with the end of the world only 30 minutes away, resolved almost overnight, through the efforts of two men of good will.

Similarly, the war against radical Islam will be resolved, not through war, but a rejection of old philosophies and an acceptance of a new reality and a greater understanding of human being about themselves.

I won't get into details, but the new "religion" has worked for me. :D

TolkoRaz
12-12-2014, 16:40
However, Islam will eventually lose, when confronted by a stronger morality, and they are forced to recognize and grant human rights to their subjects.

There is nothing wrong with moderate Islam; I assume you are referring to the Salafists and the armed extremists!

There is a HUGE difference!

Fantastika
12-12-2014, 16:45
There is nothing wrong with moderate Islam; I assume you are referring to the Salafists and the armed extremists!

There is a HUGE difference!

Sorry, I was writing "radical Islam" but I forgot the "radical" qualifier in the last instance...

Benedikt
12-12-2014, 16:53
but about the USA.
They won Korea? why is there now a North and South?
Vietnam? the North moved into the South and -united- the place.
WWI? who won and who lost? the USA for sure did NOT win..
WWII? when did the USA come in? when it was sure the Krauts will loose....

Youtube and Wiki for sure are not always the yellow of the egg, but they seem to agree with me....

Fantastika
12-12-2014, 17:28
Korea was a stalemate.

Vietnam, USA troops did not go past the so-called "DMZ." You can't win a war if you refuse to go after the enemy where the enemy lives.

WW1 - US wanted to remain neutral but Germany kept sinking ships with Americans on board. Wilson, one of the worst presidents of the 20th Century, dragged US into that conflict, even so, it took 3 years to convince the American public.

On June 26, 1917, the first 14,000 U.S. infantry troops landed in France to begin training for combat. After four years of bloody stalemate along the Western Front, the entrance of America's well-supplied forces into the conflict was a major turning point in the war.

WW2 - Again, America chose to remain neutral ("let the Europeans solve their own problems"), but was dragged into it by sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. This was at the zenith of German conquest and power, not the nadir.

War against radical Islam. Again, America wanted to remain neutral, but was dragged into it by cowardly attacks on 9/11.

Uncle Wally
12-12-2014, 17:40
Korea was a stalemate.

Vietnam, USA troops did not go past the so-called "DMZ." You can't win a war if you refuse to go after the enemy where the enemy lives.

WW1 - US wanted to remain neutral but Germany kept sinking ships with Americans on board. Wilson, one of the worst presidents of the 20th Century, dragged US into that conflict, even so, it took 3 years to convince the American public.

On June 26, 1917, the first 14,000 U.S. infantry troops landed in France to begin training for combat. After four years of bloody stalemate along the Western Front, the entrance of America's well-supplied forces into the conflict was a major turning point in the war.

WW2 - Again, America chose to remain neutral ("let the Europeans solve their own problems"), but was dragged into it by sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. This was at the zenith of German conquest and power, not the nadir.

War against radical Islam. Again, America wanted to remain neutral, but was dragged into it by cowardly attacks on 9/11.



9/11 was just an excuse to start illegal wars. I can't believe anyone could still think BinLaden had anything to do with it.

Yaks
12-12-2014, 19:49
er the North Koreans had taken almost all the south when the Americans pushed them all the way well into the North. It was only the arrival of the chinese "volunteer" battalions enmass that stopped the Americans taking the entire lot. Then a line was drawn and the country to the north remains a crumbled impoverished state and the country to the south is vibrant and rich.

but no it could not be repeated in Vietnam.

But as for World war 1, the arrival of the US completely changed the war ending in the defeat of the Germans and Hapsburgs.

And for world war 2 it was much a tie between the US and the Soviets. The Soviets took a greater hit from the Germans and used a millions of their own men by some of Stalin's insane and brutal tactics, but the sacrifice of those men should not be forgotten. The US waged a European war late, sure but were also fighting the Japanese who had a huge army, huge navy and an effective air force. And while the Russians could build and produce armament from behind the Urals, the Germans fought them while their own factories were being bombed by the British.

In the end it was a numbers game, the Russians had a manpower no one in Europe had and weren't afraid to throw lives away for meagre gains. Eventually the advances added up as anyone who has visited the museums in Volgograd can attest. Likewise the US had more manufacturing capability than anyone on the planet and the largest population outside of Asia. Fact is they could have beaten the Germans on their own though Briton might have fallen in the meantime. The American economy and population size was just too large-but it would have taken them many more years to do it without the Soviets. the Soviet sacrifice shouldn't be forgotten, nor should the US. Only on this forum have I ever encountered a p!ssing contest about "who won world war 2". Most sane people acknowledge it was a joint effort by many countries. get over it.

Uncle Wally
12-12-2014, 20:05
er the North Koreans had taken almost all the south when the Americans pushed them all the way well into the North. It was only the arrival of the chinese "volunteer" battalions enmass that stopped the Americans taking the entire lot. Then a line was drawn and the country to the north remains a crumbled impoverished state and the country to the south is vibrant and rich.

but no it could not be repeated in Vietnam.

But as for World war 1, the arrival of the US completely changed the war ending in the defeat of the Germans and Hapsburgs.

And for world war 2 it was much a tie between the US and the Soviets. The Soviets took a greater hit from the Germans and used a millions of their own men by some of Stalin's insane and brutal tactics, but the sacrifice of those men should not be forgotten. The US waged a European war late, sure but were also fighting the Japanese who had a huge army, huge navy and an effective air force. And while the Russians could build and mproduce armament from behind the Urals, the Germans fought them while their own factories were being bombed by the British.

In the end it was a numbers game, the Russians had a manpower no one in Europe had and weren't afraid to throw lives away for meagre gains. Eventually the advances added up as anyone who has visited the museums in Volgograd can attest. Likewise the US had more manufacturing capability than anyone on the planet and the largest population outside of Asia. Fact is they could have beaten the Germans on their own though Briton might have fallen in the meantime. The American economy and population size was just too large-but it would have taken them many more years to do it without the Soviets. the Soviet sacrifice shouldn't be forgotten, nor should the US. Only on this forum have I ever encountered a p!ssing contest about "who won world war 2". Most sane people acknowledge it was a joint effort by many countries. get over it.






That's your best shot calling Russians crazy? Yeah America could have done it but they didn't they waited until Russia was sure to win and went in for a land grab. You should have hung out with Russian men while you were here instead of chasing Russian women.

bydand
12-12-2014, 20:30
That's your best shot calling Russians crazy? Yeah America could have done it but they didn't they waited until Russia was sure to win and went in for a land grab. You should have hung out with Russian men while you were here instead of chasing Russian women.

What land did the US grab?
A few military bases they paid rent for?

Fantastika
12-12-2014, 20:36
...Only on this forum have I ever encountered a p!ssing contest about "who won world war 2". Most sane people acknowledge it was a joint effort by many countries. get over it.

I thought we were using definition of "win" from who signed the peace treaty - US, USSR, France and England, who "won," signed documents with Germany and Japan, who "lost". What happened next day after that, is another chapter in book of history.

Armoured
12-12-2014, 21:14
Only on this forum have I ever encountered a p!ssing contest about "who won world war 2". Most sane people acknowledge it was a joint effort by many countries. get over it.

Hear, hear.

I know several Russian historians (military linked) who say bluntly that the USSR would have simply perished without Lend-Lease and Allied support.

That's not to say any one of the Allies could have done it alone, or to diminish the Soviet role, or to give the USA a 'pass' for entering late. Or to forgive Uncle Joe for Molotov-Ribbentrop.

We all won. We were Allies.

Uncle Wally
12-12-2014, 22:12
What land did the US grab?
A few military bases they paid rent for?


Paid for? You mean give a bunch of green backed paper? Let's see anyone say they don't need the base or the paper and see what happens. You didn't notice Frau Merkel wasn't to keen at first to sanction Russia but quickly changed her tune?
Gee I wonder why.

Armoured
12-12-2014, 22:50
Paid for? You mean give a bunch of green backed paper? Let's see anyone say they don't need the base or the paper and see what happens.

There are several NATO countries with no US bases. You may be surprised. It is possible to say no.

Usually it's the opposite: countries wanted US bases, and the money, and the strategic 'commitment' it represented. But to portray it as being universally required or forced upon them is wrong.

TolkoRaz
12-12-2014, 22:55
Sorry, I was writing "radical Islam" but I forgot the "radical" qualifier in the last instance...

Thank You - Shukran Jazeelan; Jazakallah :)

Uncle Wally
12-12-2014, 23:07
There are several NATO countries with no US bases. You may be surprised. It is possible to say no.

Usually it's the opposite: countries wanted US bases, and the money, and the strategic 'commitment' it represented. But to portray it as being universally required or forced upon them is wrong.


Yeah what ever. I'm really sure people in Japan just love America bases.

Yaks
13-12-2014, 03:14
er Wally are you seriously suggesting that having a few military bases leased to the Americans in Europe is worse than half a century of Soviet control over eastern Europe? The people cheering as the Berlin wall came down?

You do know of the bloody water polo match at the 56 olympics between Hungary and the Soviet Union as Soviet tanks entered the country?

Or the solidarity movement in Poland to remove the yoke of soviet communism?

And I don't call Russians crazy-having ample male friends in Russia also-I speak only of Stalin and his tactics. Yes I am not a fan of his, just as I am not a fan of Hitler, Pol pot and Mao. And don't forget later Soviet leaders denounced Stalin too.

Uncle Wally
13-12-2014, 12:00
er Wally are you seriously suggesting that having a few military bases leased to the Americans in Europe is worse than half a century of Soviet control over eastern Europe? The people cheering as the Berlin wall came down?

You do know of the bloody water polo match at the 56 olympics between Hungary and the Soviet Union as Soviet tanks entered the country?

Or the solidarity movement in Poland to remove the yoke of soviet communism?

And I don't call Russians crazy-having ample male friends in Russia also-I speak only of Stalin and his tactics. Yes I am not a fan of his, just as I am not a fan of Hitler, Pol pot and Mao. And don't forget later Soviet leaders denounced Stalin too.



Wait America will be far worse.

bydand
13-12-2014, 12:38
Yeah what ever. I'm really sure people in Japan just love America bases.

Yeah, I'm sure they do to. Otherwise they'd have to spend billions just to keep the Chinese at bay.

Yaks
13-12-2014, 16:34
Yeah, I'm sure they do to. Otherwise they'd have to spend billions just to keep the Chinese at bay.

and the Koreans-particularly of the northern type.

fenrir
13-12-2014, 17:59
but about the USA.
They won Korea? why is there now a North and South?
Vietnam? the North moved into the South and -united- the place.
WWI? who won and who lost? the USA for sure did NOT win..
WWII? when did the USA come in? when it was sure the Krauts will loose....

Youtube and Wiki for sure are not always the yellow of the egg, but they seem to agree with me....

Korea: The goal was to keep the South free. Did the North conquer the South?
Vietnam: I didn't mention it.
WW I: We didn't win this one? Are you are saying we lost?
WW II: We entered the war when Japan attacked us (7 December 1941) and Hitler declared war on us (11 December 1941) at the height of his power, not when he was losing.

TolkoRaz
13-12-2014, 19:12
Courtesy of STRATFOR:

Russia will respond to the U.S. bill supplying military aid to Ukraine, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said, Interfax news agency reported Dec. 13.

The bill, approved in Congress Dec. 12 and now sent to U.S. President Barack Obama for approval, sends up to $350 million of U.S. military hardware to Ukraine. It also threatens fresh sanctions against Russia, whose economy is weakening under previous rounds of Western sanctions for its actions in eastern Ukraine and a collapse in oil prices. The response comes before U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is due to meet Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Rome on Dec. 15.

Fantastika
13-12-2014, 22:56
And for world war 2...Fact is they could have beaten the Germans on their own though Briton might have fallen in the meantime. The American economy and population size was just too large-but it would have taken them many more years to do it without the Soviets.

If Britain wasn't there, as a base for American bombers, the Germans might have won. Werner Von Braun and Co. were working on an ICBM (3000 mile-range), a 3-stage "V-3" rocket at the close of the war. Given a few more months, New York, Philly, etc. would have been suffering a "blitz" from German intercontinental missiles.

TolkoRaz
13-12-2014, 23:06
If Britain wasn't there, as a base for American bombers, the Germans might have won. Werner Von Braun and Co. were working on an ICBM (3000 mile-range), a 3-stage "V-3" rocket at the close of the war. Given a few more months, New York, Philly, etc. would have been suffering a "blitz" from German intercontinental missiles.

Really? At Peenemunde?

Moscow would also have been in range! :eek:

PJB
13-12-2014, 23:12
If Britain wasn't there, as a base for American bombers, the Germans might have won. Werner Von Braun and Co. were working on an ICBM (3000 mile-range), a 3-stage "V-3" rocket at the close of the war. Given a few more months, New York, Philly, etc. would have been suffering a "blitz" from German intercontinental missiles.

And you know this because? There is plenty of room for "but if" in fictional novels but in real life it didn't happen.

Fantastika
14-12-2014, 00:27
Really? At Peenemunde?

Moscow would also have been in range! :eek:

(Der Fuehrer, being a strategic idiot, would have bombed Moscow, which would have had no effect on the factories producing Soviet weapons in the Urals...)

On July 1941, Field Marshall Walther von Brauchitsch, Germany’s Army Commander in Chief, suggested to Hitler and the Nazi top brass that the development of a functional and advanced rocket programme would give a moral boost to the German people. He also, vaguely, mentioned that Germany should place resources into developing a missile capable of reaching the United States. It is known that Peenemunde’s secret Projects Office commenced designing a missile capable of achieving long distances. The project, which some called the “American Rocket” was rumored to have began in late 1940. The American Rocket was the brainchild of Ludwig Roth, a brilliant, yet obscure German designer; who began looking at the feasibility of installing an A9 missile on top of a massive booster rocket. The concept, now designated A10, was deemed to be too technically challenging by most German engineers. The A10 program was called off soon after. If developed, Roth’s massive rocket would have had an engine capable of giving it almost 200 pounds of thrust for around sixty seconds this would had enabled the mounted A9 rocket to reach an altitude of 35 miles. It was estimated the returning A9 could have had a range of 2,500 miles in just thirty five minutes.

After the A10 program was terminated, there were discussions of developing a manned version of the A9 system. Engineers believed that a manned rocket would have solved the main problem of guiding the rocket to its target. There were even “talk” that a manned A9 with an A10 booster can actually hit small targets such as the Empire State Building. The idea was that once the A9 was in clear sight of its target, the pilot would have bailed out and the rocket would have self-guided to the intended area. Although the project looked promising on the drawing board, it never left it. In fact, all work relating to the A10 booster rocket was terminated in the spring of 1944. Work on the winged A9 proceeded at much slower peace. The A9 project was cancelled in the autumn of 1944 because of material and fuel shortages. Although halted, the A9 and A10 projects did provide Germany with the necessary data from with which to further develop its operational missile, the A4. A winged version of the A4 with a new and improved propulsion system, code named A4b, was developed. Unfortunately for Germany, the Red Army was closing fast on Peenemunde and all work related to this programme was hastily suspended in late 1944.

If Nazi Germany would had employed the resources needed to build A10 booster with an A9 rocket, there is little doubt that Hitler would have had the world’s first true Inter Continental Ballistic Missile. The extent of German research and development of a true ICBM can better be explained by Wernher von Braun, the brilliant German scientist who led the American effort to reach the moon. When interrogated after the war, von Braun explained that German engineers were commencing the design of a new booster rocket, code named the A10, which would have been a three stage, extremely long range ballistic missile. In fact, he described the A10 as the first moon rocket, meaning that it was intended to get the A9 missile over Earth’s atmosphere. How close Nazi Germany came to actually develop a workable ICBM is anybody’s guess, but the sheer volume of data clearly points to a massive German effort to develop such a weapon. One could suggest that if Hitler and his staff had pressed on with the rocket program early on in the war the ICBM would have been achieved.

Fantastika
14-12-2014, 00:36
And you know this because? There is plenty of room for "but if" in fictional novels but in real life it didn't happen.

That's right and you did notice my comment was preceded by "if"? Yaks and I were playing "what if". I was in error about the "V-3" label, the "V-3" was a different Peenemunde project, not an ICBM. Sorry for misinformation about "V-3", I was trying to recall from book I read some time ago.

Yaks
14-12-2014, 03:05
Sure the Germans had an amazing war machine and some of the best science-their casualty rate was low(though highest on the eastern front) but a sheer weight of numbers from Russia-with one hundred million more men to be potential soldiers and producing 1000 tanks a month-meant the Germans were never going to win.

And yes Britain was an excellent staging point but even with ICBMs America was under no real threat unless the Germans developed nukes first. Which they didn't and a far more likely outcome would have seen Germany a wasteland of radioactive slag than somehow Germany win a war against America..

TolkoRaz
14-12-2014, 17:18
Did you see Poroshenko with that well known Nazi a couple of days ago?

Interesting that the UKR InfoWars Team allowed the photographs to be released to the media! :10293:

Russian Lad
14-12-2014, 17:19
Welcome to the exciting world of infowars, comrade!

I don't see any infowar in his statement. He is a very candid person, he even admitted that he was the one who pulled the trigger of war in Donbass. Need a link? Let me kindly remind you that you blame the Ukronazi for starting this war. However, your own hero claims quite the opposite. How do you expect us to find any credibility in your views, under the current new circumstances?

bydand
14-12-2014, 17:33
Did you see Poroshenko with that well known Nazi a couple of days ago?

Interesting that the UKR InfoWars Team allowed the photographs to be released to the media! :10293:

No, I did not. I am ignorant concerning that. Who is the Nazi? Is he a self professed Nazi? A closet Nazi? An accused (by whom) Nazi?

Seriously, I would like to know.

TolkoRaz
14-12-2014, 19:36
No, I did not. I am ignorant concerning that. Who is the Nazi? Is he a self professed Nazi? A closet Nazi? An accused (by whom) Nazi?

Seriously, I would like to know.

Courtesy of the BBC:

"Hyper-sensitivity and stonewalling were on full display after President Petro Poroshenko presented a Ukrainian passport to someone who, according to human rights activists, is a "Belarusian neo-Nazi".

The Ukrainian leader handed out medals on 5 December to fighters who had tenaciously defended the main airport in the eastern region of Donetsk from being taken over by Russian-backed separatists.

Among the recipients was Serhiy Korotkykh, a Belarusian national, to whom Mr Poroshenko awarded Ukrainian citizenship, praising his "courageous and selfless service".

The president's website showed a photo of Mr Poroshenko patting the shoulder of the Belarusian, who was clad in military fatigues.

Experts who follow the far right have strongly objected to President Poroshenko's decision.

They say Mr Korotkykh was a member of the far-right Russian National Unity party and also a founding member of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Society (NSS) in Russia.

According to Ukrainian academic Anton Shekhovtsov, the NSS's main goal "is to prepare for a race war".

Mr Shekhovtsov said the Belarusian had been charged for involvement in a bombing in central Moscow in 2007, and was detained in 2013 in the Belarusian capital Minsk for allegedly stabbing an anti-fascist activist. He was later released for lack of evidence.

AZOV Battalion

As Mr Korotkykh's case demonstrates, the ultra-nationalists have proven to be effective and dedicated fighters in the brutal war in the east against Russian-backed separatists and Russian forces, whose numbers also include a large contingent from Russia's far right.

As a result, they have achieved a level of acceptance, even though most Ukrainians are unfamiliar with their actual beliefs.

The volunteer Azov Battalion is a case in point. Run by the extremist Patriot of Ukraine organisation, which considers Jews and other minorities "sub-human" and calls for a white, Christian crusade against them, it sports three Nazi symbols on its insignia: a modified Wolf's Hook, a black sun (or "Hakensonne") and the title Black Corps, which was used by the Waffen SS.

Azov is just one of more than 50 volunteer groups fighting in the east, the vast majority of which are not extremist, yet it seems to enjoy special backing from some top officials:


Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and his deputy Anton Gerashchenko actively supported the parliament candidacy of Andriy Biletsky, the Azov and Patriot of Ukraine commander

Vadim Troyan, another top Azov official and Patriot of Ukraine member, was recently named police chief for the Kiev region

Mr Korotkykh is also an Azov member


Ukraine's media, along with others, has been noticeably silent on this subject. ;)

Russian Lad
14-12-2014, 20:24
Russian-backed separatists and Russian forces, whose numbers also include a large contingent from Russia's far right.

Tolko, I am beginning to doubt your reading skills at this point... I stopped taking your "views" seriously a long time ago. But that's a new low.:) I will save you the utter embarrassment and will not post many clips of the Russian nazi here who participate in the intervention.

TolkoRaz
14-12-2014, 20:42
Tolko, I am beginning to doubt your reading skills at this point... I stopped taking your "views" seriously a long time ago. But that's a new low.:) I will save you the utter embarrassment and will not post many clips of the Russian nazi here who participate in the intervention.

As mentioned in my original Post, it was 'Courtesy of the BBC'.

Clearly it is YOUR reading skills which were tested! ;)

Voice your concerns to your friends at the BBC if you have an issue with their reporting!

Thank you!

Fantastika
14-12-2014, 20:55
Here's something from zik.ua :

Poland is sending 40 trucks with humanitarian assistance to Donbas, Polish radio said Dec. 13. The convoy will deliver food and basic consumer goods. ...
In addition, the Polish defense ministry is to send humanitarian goods to the Ukrainian army worth 3 million euros.

The humanitarian Polish army sends aid to the Ukrainian humanitarian army, which uses their weapons in a humanitarian manner, to humanitarily bomb civilian apartments.
The Polish Defense Ministry has twisted the meaning of the word "humanitarian" into a pretzel.

Fantastika
14-12-2014, 21:02
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/10/17/ukraines-institute-of-national-memory-addresses-myths-about-upa-for-the-new-day-of-the-defender/

Looks like 1984 has been superseded by 2014 Ukraine.

Ukraine, now not only without freedom of speech, freedom of the press, nor freedom to vote (lustration eliminates all alternatives to those already in power) now you don't even have freedom of thought. Thinking "incorrect" thoughts (incorrect memory) casts you under suspicion, too. The Institute of National Memory will decide what's the correct and what's the incorrect version of history, to properly "educate" you and your children.

It's going to be a long, dark night in Ukraine.

Russian Lad
14-12-2014, 21:21
Ukraine, now not only without freedom of speech, freedom of the press, nor freedom to vote (lustration eliminates all alternatives to those already in power) now you don't even have freedom of thought. Thinking "incorrect" thoughts (incorrect memory) casts you under suspicion, too. The Institute of National Memory will decide what's the correct and what's the incorrect version of history, to properly "educate" you and your children.

What sort of freedom do you miss there? The freedom to wave the Russian flag and claim Ukraine is Russia? Well, try doing the opposite in Russia. Or perhaps it is the freedom to organize random republics? Sorry to hear it is not possible anymore.
Even in the beginning of this the Ukrainian media were way more free than the Russian ones, which were beating up the frenzy of insane propaganda. I know you don't like the US government, but posting like this you do them a great favor actually - letting us all see here how "bright" their opponents are.


As mentioned in my original Post, it was 'Courtesy of the BBC'.

Clearly it is YOUR reading skills which were tested!

Voice your concerns to your friends at the BBC if you have an issue with their reporting!

Thank you!

BBC reporting is ok, but you forgot to attach the pictures of the Russian nationalists, thus clearly trying to sway us from an impartial analysis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFP9SE_izuE

TolkoRaz
14-12-2014, 21:56
BBC reporting is ok, but you forgot to attach the pictures of the Russian nationalists, thus clearly trying to sway us from an impartial analysis.


Do not twist it, RusskiLad.

As I mentioned, complain to the BBC! :coffee:

Thank You for your understanding :10310:

Russian Lad
14-12-2014, 23:29
Do not twist it, RusskiLad.

As I mentioned, complain to the BBC!

Thank You for your understanding

Me twisting? I haven't even started yet. The way you and Andy twist the facts, I am a shameful amateur in comparison.:10641:

Uncle Wally
15-12-2014, 03:10
Me twisting? I haven't even started yet. The way you and Andy twist the facts, I am a shameful amateur in comparison.:10641:


You would first need to know the "facts" before any "twisting" could go on.

FatAndy
15-12-2014, 09:33
I am a shameful amateur in comparison.:10641:
:agree:
"Learn, learn and learn" © by your favourite dedushka Lenin ;)

bydand
15-12-2014, 11:56
Courtesy of the BBC:

"Hyper-sensitivity and stonewalling were on full display after President Petro Poroshenko presented a Ukrainian passport to someone who, according to human rights activists, is a "Belarusian neo-Nazi".

;)

Seems to me the "Nazi" got a medal for selflessly defending the Ukrainian airport from "Russian separatists". Not killing Russian speaking people on a picnic (though they may have been on "vacation").

Russian Lad
16-12-2014, 06:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2JwAHhm6F8

Fantastika
16-12-2014, 22:54
Obama-to-sign-Russia-sanctions-bill (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-to-sign-russia-sanctions-bill/)

The bill would give the president the authority to provide lethal and nonlethal military assistance to Ukraine. This includes anti-tank weapons, counter-artillery radar and tactical surveillance drones. The bill authorizes $350 million over two years to cover the cost.

Obama is not satisfied with financial war aimed at regime change and destroying Russian economy. He will continue to distract attention from his corrupt administration, the crumbling US economy, his scandals, the real danger to the world from islamofascism, and the "soft tyranny" of bureaucrats in Obama regime, by restarting the Cold War.

Uncle Wally
17-12-2014, 01:25
Obama-to-sign-Russia-sanctions-bill (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-to-sign-russia-sanctions-bill/)

The bill would give the president the authority to provide lethal and nonlethal military assistance to Ukraine. This includes anti-tank weapons, counter-artillery radar and tactical surveillance drones. The bill authorizes $350 million over two years to cover the cost.

Obama is not satisfied with financial war aimed at regime change and destroying Russian economy. He will continue to distract attention from his corrupt administration, the crumbling US economy, his scandals, the real danger to the world from islamofascism, and the "soft tyranny" of bureaucrats in Obama regime, by restarting the Cold War.



This will give Russia a good reason to invade all of Ukraine.

PJB
17-12-2014, 09:41
This will give Russia a good reason to invade all of Ukraine.

Will Putin be paying the Russian army salaries in rubles or $ ? And when the EU and America slap Russia with even more sanctions how will Putin pay anybody at all?

Uncle Wally
17-12-2014, 11:12
Will Putin be paying the Russian army salaries in rubles or $ ? And when the EU and America slap Russia with even more sanctions how will Putin pay anybody at all?


As far as I know the ruble can still buy things in Russia. America "slaps" Russia much more the army won't need to pay, Russians will fight for free.

There is a reason why Russians still like Putin, why don't you try to figure that out and get back to me.

PJB
17-12-2014, 11:35
As far as I know the ruble can still buy things in Russia. America "slaps" Russia much more the army won't need to pay, Russians will fight for free.

There is a reason why Russians still like Putin, why don't you try to figure that out and get back to me.

Yes the ruble can still buy things in Russia. You just need a lot more of them on an hourly basis.

Russians may fight for free against an American army (which will definitely not be in Russia or Ukraine) but I'm not so sure about them wanting to invade Ukraine and fight civilians for nothing. Also the parts for tanks, rocket launchers, bullets and bombs are not free.

Russian's opinions of their rulers has no effect and no power on anything in Russia or outside of Russia, and no effect on the Russian economy.

Uncle Wally
17-12-2014, 14:58
Yes the ruble can still buy things in Russia. You just need a lot more of them on an hourly basis.

Russians may fight for free against an American army (which will definitely not be in Russia or Ukraine) but I'm not so sure about them wanting to invade Ukraine and fight civilians for nothing. Also the parts for tanks, rocket launchers, bullets and bombs are not free.

Russian's opinions of their rulers has no effect and no power on anything in Russia or outside of Russia, and no effect on the Russian economy.




When have prices started going up by the hour? I haven't seen that, in fact I see no panic at all except from Russia Lad.

"Russia's opinions have no effect"? Really you want to thing about that statement some more?

PJB
17-12-2014, 23:05
When have prices started going up by the hour? I haven't seen that, in fact I see no panic at all except from Russia Lad.

"Russia's opinions have no effect"? Really you want to thing about that statement some more?

The prices of goods will have to be adjusted for the drop in currency value. The wild hourly ups and downs of the ruble will make producers of consumer goods go broke if they do not adjust their prices to compensate for their losses.

I'm thinking real hard on how Russian's opinions of their leader will empower the man on the street. Perhaps you should enlighten me?

Uncle Wally
17-12-2014, 23:46
The prices of goods will have to be adjusted for the drop in currency value. The wild hourly ups and downs of the ruble will make producers of consumer goods go broke if they do not adjust their prices to compensate for their losses.

I'm thinking real hard on how Russian's opinions of their leader will empower the man on the street. Perhaps you should enlighten me?

After new year prices for phones, tv's, computers will go up by 50% I've heard this already and I think everybody knows this, that's why people are shopping so much now.

If you didn't know this Russian love Russia, they understand Russia is a great powerful rich country and they don't like it when any other country tries to tell them what to do, think, say or feel. Russian are some of the bravest people I've met. I you haven't noticed Putin's popularity is at a all time high.

PJB
18-12-2014, 05:03
After new year prices for phones, tv's, computers will go up by 50% I've heard this already and I think everybody knows this, that's why people are shopping so much now.

If you didn't know this Russian love Russia, they understand Russia is a great powerful rich country and they don't like it when any other country tries to tell them what to do, think, say or feel. Russian are some of the bravest people I've met. I you haven't noticed Putin's popularity is at a all time high.

Anybody (including me) who follows Russian news knows that Putin's popularity is at an all time high. But unlike a democratic country where people can vote someone in or out of office, the Russian's opinion of Putin is only fodder for propaganda aimed at the West. If Russians start to hate Putin what can they do about getting him out of power? Nothing. So basically the value of their opinion is worth nothing.

Fantastika
18-12-2014, 06:11
Russian's opinions of their rulers has no effect and no power on anything in Russia...

Just change "Russia" to "America" and you have a true statement.

Witness 2014 elections, with Washington-based Republicans, and Obama, doing what they want to do, in spite of the elections, and giving the middle finger to anyone outside the Beltway.

Fantastika
18-12-2014, 06:13
The prices of goods will have to be adjusted for the drop in currency value. The wild hourly ups and downs of the ruble will make producers of consumer goods go broke if they do not adjust their prices to compensate for their losses.

I'm thinking real hard on how Russian's opinions of their leader will empower the man on the street. Perhaps you should enlighten me?

You can enlighten yourself, by starting with Microeconomics, and Macroeconomics.

Fantastika
18-12-2014, 06:18
Anybody (including me) who follows Russian news knows that Putin's popularity is at an all time high. But unlike a democratic country where people can vote someone in or out of office, the Russian's opinion of Putin is only fodder for propaganda aimed at the West. If Russians start to hate Putin what can they do about getting him out of power? Nothing. So basically the value of their opinion is worth nothing.

Anybody (including me) who follows American "news" knows that Obama's popularity is at an all time low. But unlike a democratic country where people can vote someone in or out of office, the minority opinion of Obama is only fodder for propaganda aimed at the majority of Americans and the rest of the world. Americans hate Obama, but what can they do about getting him out of power? Nothing. So basically the value of their opinion is worth nothing.

FatAndy
18-12-2014, 09:26
http://top.rbc.ru/society/18/12/2014/549267159a79475d37170ac9 - 10th humanitarian convoy has departed to Donbass.

Russian Lad
18-12-2014, 09:54
NATO troops are already in Kharkov:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE4bILt2pMI

Uncle Wally
18-12-2014, 10:30
Anybody (including me) who follows Russian news knows that Putin's popularity is at an all time high. But unlike a democratic country where people can vote someone in or out of office, the Russian's opinion of Putin is only fodder for propaganda aimed at the West. If Russians start to hate Putin what can they do about getting him out of power? Nothing. So basically the value of their opinion is worth nothing.


Are you in Russia now? Outside of Moscow people love Putin that's where he gets his votes. He does win elections unlike Bush.

PJB
18-12-2014, 19:10
Are you in Russia now? Outside of Moscow people love Putin that's where he gets his votes. He does win elections unlike Bush.

Of course Putin wins all of his elections. So did Breshnev, Kruschev, and every Russian leader that has ever run for office. When did the ruling party in Russia ever get voted out by THE PEOPLE?


As my relatives said to me not too long ago; " American elections are too stressful. In Russia it's easy because everyone knows who is going to win."

Uncle Wally
18-12-2014, 22:52
Of course Putin wins all of his elections. So did Breshnev, Kruschev, and every Russian leader that has ever run for office. When did the ruling party in Russia ever get voted out by THE PEOPLE?


As my relatives said to me not too long ago; " American elections are too stressful. In Russia it's easy because everyone knows who is going to win."



You really don't understand Russia.


America's elections are a fake. You have two choices and both work for same master.

FatAndy
19-12-2014, 14:14
http://www.rbc.ua/rus/news/accidents/v-telah-passazhirov-sbitogo-na-donbasse-boeing-777-naydeny-elementy-19122014115900 - SBU doesn't exclude AAM hitting MH17. Something has changed.

Russian Lad
19-12-2014, 15:37
SBU doesn't exclude AAM hitting MH17

That's not what it says in the article. Just two days ago the US submitted some classified materials to the commission in Netherlands, the Americans said they confirm their initial claims.

Uncle Wally
19-12-2014, 15:49
http://www.rbc.ua/rus/news/accidents/v-telah-passazhirov-sbitogo-na-donbasse-boeing-777-naydeny-elementy-19122014115900 - SBU doesn't exclude AAM hitting MH17. Something has changed.


A Ukrainian soldier just came out and said he was one of Ukrainian soldiers that shot down MH17. The reporter that broke the story is now on the run!

FatAndy
19-12-2014, 16:36
A Ukrainian soldier just came out and said he was one of Ukrainian soldiers that shot down MH17. The reporter that broke the story is now on the run!
No ideas, as no reports on my table yet... ;)

Uncle Wally
19-12-2014, 16:42
No ideas, as no reports on my table yet... ;)



Check www.infowars.com

FatAndy
19-12-2014, 17:32
Check www.infowars.com
:)

http://top.rbc.ru/economics/19/12/2014/54944f039a7947941a19615b - no more lights in the central streets of Ukrainian cities. It's The Victory...

Yaks
20-12-2014, 04:59
Are you in Russia now? Outside of Moscow people love Putin that's where he gets his votes. He does win elections unlike Bush.

of course. 146% of the people vote for him.

Uncle Wally
20-12-2014, 08:45
of course. 146% of the people vote for him.



Lies.

Yaks
20-12-2014, 10:10
I was making the point that it is impossible to know-after a 146% turnout.

Uncle Wally
20-12-2014, 23:56
I was making the point that it is impossible to know-after a 146% turnout.



Wow I'm surprised you never heard of PhotoShop.

PJB
21-12-2014, 00:21
Wow I'm surprised you never heard of PhotoShop.

Still waiting to hear when the Russian People voted out a ruling party thus exhibiting the power of their opinion.

Yaks
21-12-2014, 01:31
Wow I'm surprised you never heard of PhotoShop.

Except I saw the original during the election-it was on Russian Tv. It wasn't photoshopped.

Uncle Wally
21-12-2014, 01:56
Still waiting to hear when the Russian People voted out a ruling party thus exhibiting the power of their opinion.



I've lived in Russia for 20 years. I met many people and have been many places in Russia. People outside Moscow like Putin so get over it.

Uncle Wally
21-12-2014, 01:58
Except I saw the original during the election-it was on Russian Tv. It wasn't photoshopped.



Oh and if YOU saw it.

PJB
21-12-2014, 04:54
I've lived in Russia for 20 years. I met many people and have been many places in Russia. People outside Moscow like Putin so get over it.

I've also lived in Russia and been involved with Russians for 18 yrs. I know a lot of people who do like Putin and a lot of people (including Russians) who don't like Putin. But that wasn't the question.

THE QUESTION IS:

When did the Russian people vote OUT a ruling party thus exhibiting the power of their opinion?

Yaks
21-12-2014, 04:54
Oh and if YOU saw it.

Not just me, but plenty of others. Considering where it was shown the potential audience was in millions. Hence you can search up the image yourself easily enough.

I am 146% right about this.

Fantastika
21-12-2014, 06:05
I've lived in Russia for 20 years. I met many people and have been many places in Russia. People outside Moscow like Putin so get over it.

Same thing in the US - outside of the Beltway (Washington) Obama is despised, and so is the federal government with their bureaucrats, black SUV's and armed thugs.

PJB
21-12-2014, 08:19
Same thing in the US - outside of the Beltway (Washington) Obama is despised, and so is the federal government with their bureaucrats, black SUV's and armed thugs.



Yup. Hate him so much they accidentally voted for him to be president (Twice!!!!) :11629:

Fantastika
21-12-2014, 09:03
Yup. Hate him so much they accidentally voted for him to be president (Twice!!!!) :11629:

I've never trusted toadstools, but I suppose some must have their good points.

PJB
21-12-2014, 09:26
I've never trusted toadstools, but I suppose some must have their good points.

???????

Fantastika
21-12-2014, 13:51
???????

Can you stand on your head?

PJB
21-12-2014, 18:33
Can you stand on your head?

Once again, random and pointless.

Fantastika
21-12-2014, 19:05
(More clues, these are "your" quotes) :)

The proper order of things is often a mystery to me. You, too?

I'm afraid I have to expel a rather ferocious hairball. You're on your own, girl.

Uncle Wally
21-12-2014, 22:12
Once again, random and pointless.



Ah women.

Fantastika
21-12-2014, 22:34
Ah women.

That was rude, you *are*! Rabbit knows a thing or two and I myself, don't need a weathervane to tell which way the wind blows.

Uncle Wally
21-12-2014, 23:29
That was rude, you *are*! Rabbit knows a thing or two and I myself, don't need a weathervane to tell which way the wind blows.


Ah you are a girl!

I'm a sexists pig. Girls are girls and boys are boys.

Fantastika
21-12-2014, 23:41
Ah you are a girl!

...Girls are girls and boys are boys.

To the royal guards of this realm, we are all victims in-waiting.

Uncle Wally
21-12-2014, 23:48
To the royal guards of this realm, we are all victims in-waiting.



You are only a victim if you act like a victim. The kind that pray on the weak are weaker.

Fantastika
22-12-2014, 01:47
You are only a victim if you act like a victim. The kind that pray on the weak are weaker.

Only the insane equate pain with success.

Uncle Wally
22-12-2014, 02:12
Only the insane equate pain with success.



How that saying go?

No pain no gain? Some slave master must have thought that one up.

Forget about hate and except your fate try to love it's never too late.

Fantastika
22-12-2014, 04:45
No pain no gain? Some slave master must have thought that one up.

Forget about hate and except your fate try to love it's never too late.

Is our situation not dismal? Wonderland is so discombobulated that lady bugs have turned belligerent and enlisted in the queen's army! PUNISH THEIR CONVERSION!

Fantastika
22-12-2014, 17:54
(PJB, are you still there? Cat got your tongue? One last clue: )

The Queen is dead and gone. Well, at least she's gone... for now. Long live Alice! Long live Wonderland.

(I'm letting the cat out of the bag with that clue :) )

Uncle Wally
23-12-2014, 00:23
The word is protest come back to Kiev! That's right now they are protesting their new government because the Ukrainian currency is dropping. They want the bankers in jail! I bet ya the US won't be passing out cookies this time.

Fantastika
23-12-2014, 09:16
The word is protest come back to Kiev! That's right now they are protesting their new government because the Ukrainian currency is dropping. They want the bankers in jail! I bet ya the US won't be passing out cookies this time.

Why, she simply said that you're a fat, pompous, bad tempered old tyrant!

Fantastika
24-12-2014, 03:09
Nobody's going to play anymore?

All of my comments from the last 2 pages have been quotes of the Cheshire Cat, from Lewis Carroll's book, "Alice in Wonderland." I thought for sure PJB would get it, since that's her avatar.... :)

Russian Lad
25-12-2014, 12:59
Such a coverage would seem insane just a year ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2c2OD5PC-U

Fantastika
25-12-2014, 18:27
For RL, by his special request ;) :

YouTube - Red Army (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1_7l9YIcJ4)

;) and this is good and correct.

Cool song, kind of a combination Polka-Rock-Trance!

TolkoRaz
19-01-2015, 22:17
They can go and help rebuild Donestk airport ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30876223

bydand
19-01-2015, 22:27
They can go and help rebuild Donestk airport ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30876223

Which you and your ilk destroyed?

For what Tolko? More people will fly to Fresno, and nobody goes to Fresno anymore...

TolkoRaz
19-01-2015, 22:30
Which you and your ilk destroyed?

UKR artillery and tank fire?

bydand
19-01-2015, 22:47
UKR artillery and tank fire?

{sarcasm} No, of course not, the bloody US of A evil mercenaries you heard on the "front line". Evil US of A needs Russian gas. Ask Wally, shale gas won't work. {sarcasm}

Uncle Wally
19-01-2015, 22:53
UKR artillery and tank fire?



Yeah but somehow Putin is at fault, don't you know anything? You know if he just let America rape Ukraine and kill off all those, those, wanta be Russians we'd all still be sipping champagne and smoking big fat cigars and wouldn't be riding this ruble rollercoaster.

PJB
19-01-2015, 23:08
So what happened to Russia "protecting" all those native Russian speakers? The regions held by the separatists are now bombed out wastelands with a starving population who wants to know when Putin is coming to rescue them. When is Russia going to save them and pump jillions of dollars into rebuilding Nova Rossiya?

bydand
19-01-2015, 23:11
So what happened to Russia "protecting" all those native Russian speakers? The regions held by the separatists are now bombed out wastelands with a starving population who wants to know when Putin is coming to rescue them. When is Russia going to save them and pump jillions of dollars into rebuilding Nova Rossiya?

TR?

TolkoRaz
19-01-2015, 23:21
So what happened to Russia "protecting" all those native Russian speakers? The regions held by the separatists are now bombed out wastelands with a starving population who wants to know when Putin is coming to rescue them. When is Russia going to save them and pump jillions of dollars into rebuilding Nova Rossiya?

Large humanitarian convoys are regularly sent; the last convoys arrived last week and additional supplies entered the East today! :)

Russian Lad
19-01-2015, 23:29
Large humanitarian convoys are regularly sent; the last convoys arrived last week and additional supplies entered the East today!

Your smilie, does it invite us to laugh with you or at you?

PJB
19-01-2015, 23:43
Arguing who bombed what is now pointless. Kiev has agreed to a cease fire with a boundary that gives the rebels/new republic a definite territory, and yet the rebels are still trying to take more territory using Russian military equipment and assistance from Russian military "volunteers .

After all the verbal support for "protecting" the Russian speaking population Moscow continues to support the destruction of Eastern Ukraine and has not made any offer of rebuilding it. If the humanitarian convoys were effective the people wouldn't be starving, without medicine and without places to live.

Time for Russia to put it's money where it's mouth is and make E. Ukraine safe and functional. But I'm betting they have a lot of excuses as to why they can't.

Uncle Wally
19-01-2015, 23:57
So what happened to Russia "protecting" all those native Russian speakers? The regions held by the separatists are now bombed out wastelands with a starving population who wants to know when Putin is coming to rescue them. When is Russia going to save them and pump jillions of dollars into rebuilding Nova Rossiya?



He would if he could but of course America would whine and cry about how bad Russia is and Russia is Putin's first concern. He's doing what he can to stop this but you know America keeps pushing Ukraine.

Uncle Wally
20-01-2015, 00:00
Arguing who bombed what is now pointless. Kiev has agreed to a cease fire with a boundary that gives the rebels/new republic a definite territory, and yet the rebels are still trying to take more territory using Russian military equipment and assistance from Russian military "volunteers .

After all the verbal support for "protecting" the Russian speaking population Moscow continues to support the destruction of Eastern Ukraine and has not made any offer of rebuilding it. If the humanitarian convoys were effective the people wouldn't be starving, without medicine and without places to live.

Time for Russia to put it's money where it's mouth is and make E. Ukraine safe and functional. But I'm betting they have a lot of excuses as to why they can't.



You make sound like the Ukrainian government is a bunch of angels. Unbelievably naive.

TolkoRaz
20-01-2015, 00:19
Arguing who bombed what is now pointless. Kiev has agreed to a cease fire with a boundary that gives the rebels/new republic a definite territory, and yet the rebels are still trying to take more territory using Russian military equipment and assistance from Russian military "volunteers .

After all the verbal support for "protecting" the Russian speaking population Moscow continues to support the destruction of Eastern Ukraine and has not made any offer of rebuilding it. If the humanitarian convoys were effective the people wouldn't be starving, without medicine and without places to live.

Time for Russia to put it's money where it's mouth is and make E. Ukraine safe and functional. But I'm betting they have a lot of excuses as to why they can't.

Actually, it was Poroshenko who launched the latest ground offensive!

bydand
20-01-2015, 09:01
Actually, it was Poroshenko who launched the latest ground offensive!

To defend the airport!

PJB
20-01-2015, 09:25
To say "Poroshenko launched the latest ground offensive" is a big SO WHAT, and it doesn't matter if anyone thinks the Ukrainian government is angel or devil. The question I am asking is why hasn't Putin acted on all of his promises to "protect" the pro Russian population of East Ukraine? His army is already there and Putin agreed to a cease fire in September with rebels and Kiev armies not advancing any further. So what's stopping Russia from putting peace keepers into the rebel held areas and rescuing of all of those people Putin promised to protect and take care of?

The Ukrainian army is no match for the Russian army as evidenced by the rapid success of the rebels when Kiev tried to push them to the Russian border. Poroshenko's army is so out manned and out weaponed by Russia's army that he would not stand a chance against a Crimea style "stabilization" of the areas already held by rebels.

America and Europe have already demonstrated (and said ) they will NOT put their armies in Ukraine and Putin has said quite clearly that he and Russia don't care what The West thinks about Russia's actions in Crimea and Ukraine. So America "whining about how bad Russia is" is certainly not what is stopping Putin from cleaning up Novaya Rossiya.

Or is it that Putin never really meant what he said about caring for all of the Russian speakers in former Soviet republics?

Russian Lad
20-01-2015, 10:13
Or is it that Putin never really meant what he said about caring for all of the Russian speakers in former Soviet republics?

How dare you say things like that?! You are a Western liar, it can't be true! Не веерииим! Вы всёёё врёёётииии!:watching:

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 12:41
To defend the airport!
:D

Russian Lad
20-01-2015, 12:45
The Russian news have reported like 100 times during the last 3 months that this airport has been fully captured by the opolchentsi. Even if I trusted them, I would begin having my doubts by this stage even if I was a total down.

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 12:49
His army is already there
Where? :)


So what's stopping Russia from putting peace keepers into the rebel held areas
We don't want full-size war :) and we're not policemen. Let healthy forces of Ukrainian society do themselves... well, with some support.


Poroshenko's army is so out manned and out weaponed
Their bad.
Maidowns and banderlogs don't want to fight for The Great Ukraine? What a surprise for their hosts...
Their bosses have sold almost all of their weapons to rebels? Ouch... :)


Putin has said quite clearly that he and Russia don't care what The West thinks about Russia's actions in Crimea and Ukraine.
And this is good and correct.


So America "whining about how bad Russia is" is certainly not what is stopping Putin from cleaning up Novaya Rossiya.
It's almost the correct guess :)

AstarD
20-01-2015, 12:50
From the pictures broadcast last night, Kyiv should just drop a big bomb on the airport. The infrastructure is beyond repair. Then there wouldn't be anything to fight over and there would be one less warren for the rebels to hide in.

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 12:52
The Russian news have reported like 100 times during the last 3 months that this airport has been fully captured by the opolchentsi. Even if I trusted them, I would begin having my doubts by this stage even if I was a total down.
And this is good and correct - "the life is bubbling".

Russian Lad
20-01-2015, 12:53
And this is good and correct - "the life is bubbling".

Please be more clear, I don't understand.:)

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 12:58
From the pictures broadcast last night, Kyiv should just drop a big bomb on the airport.
Wow, you're the great specialist ;) To drop the bomb, "Kyiv" needs at least the big bomb, the airplane to carry it, the fuel for the airplane, and the team of pilots. Guess what they're lack in? ;)


The infrastructure is beyond repair.
For a long time already.


Then there wouldn't be anything to fight over and there would be one less warren for the rebels to hide in.
You've mixed everything, Astarochka.

It is UkrowOrriors (well, those "cyborgs", ask RL) hide in. :D While "rebels" storm the area.


Please be more clear, I don't understand.:)
Sometimes it happens. Never mind. :agree:

AstarD
20-01-2015, 13:04
So you have moved this and hidden it in one of these generically named threads of yours. This is not good.

Russian Lad
20-01-2015, 13:07
generically named threads

Misnamed on purpose, I would say. But it is ok - just shows the desperation. I like it.

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 13:15
So you have moved this and hidden it in one of these generically named threads of yours.
Yes. In appropriate one. And the notification in the source thread is on the place.


This is not good.
...but correct. ;)

FatAndy
20-01-2015, 13:16
:emote_popcorn:

Uncle Wally
20-01-2015, 13:59
Please be more clear, I don't understand.:)
He's talking about champagne! I thought everybody know what bubbly means.


So you have moved this and hidden it in one of these generically named threads of yours. This is not good.
How more clear do you need it?

Civil war in Ukraine is somehow confusing you? I am not surprised.

Uncle Wally
20-01-2015, 22:21
America is at war with Russia and you don't even know it.



These assertions bring to mind the Sherlock Holmes case of the dog that did not bark where the absence of a piece of evidence leads us to a very different conclusion than the one the U.S. political establishment would like us to believe.

The sorts of weaponry that NATO and the U.S. have charged Russia with providing are virtually impossible to conceal from the air. Snapping high-resolution photos of such war machinery is child’s play for today’s military satellites, and even civilian ones too. If the assertions were true, we should have seen a flood of photographs of Russian heavy equipment every step of the way as it passed into Ukraine.

But none have been offered, not even one so far. And the simplest explanation for this is that none exist. If they did, you can be 100% certain they’d have been released and replayed over and over again on CNN until everybody and their uncle could distinguish a T-72 tank outline from that of a T-64.

What concerns me even more than these undocumented charges are two especially ill-conceived, if not overtly confrontational, pieces of legislation passed by the Congress in December.



http://www.marketwatch.com/story/perhaps-you-missed-it-were-at-war-with-russia-2015-01-20?siteid=yhoof2

PJB
26-01-2015, 02:10
Seems the Russian tourists are bringing their toys to Mariupol and those dumb Westerners are talking about increased sanctions. (Which is just a waste of time because sanctions are not causing any problems for Russia).

Uncle Wally
26-01-2015, 08:20
surely that should go to the Russian tourists that bought their grad missiles and killed many civilians today.




So I guess the guy in this video who speaks perfect English and is carrying and AK 47 was born in Ukraine. Watch at about 40 seconds in when a news reporter tries to talk with him he says "outta my face, outta my face please" maybe they made English the official language of Ukraine?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=g_SzRHMeiBE&x-yt-ts=1421914688

Uncle Wally
26-01-2015, 09:07
Seems the Russian tourists are bringing their toys to Mariupol and those dumb Westerners are talking about increased sanctions. (Which is just a waste of time because sanctions are not causing any problems for Russia).




I'll post this for you too just so you don't miss it.



40 seconds in the guy with perfect English brought his AK47 with him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=g_SzRHMeiBE&x-yt-ts=1421914688

PJB
26-01-2015, 10:28
Interesting how the reporter also spoke in perfect English yelling "stop! stop!"

Now maybe we should look at the videos with the "Ukrainian rebels" who are speaking perfect Chechen ?

Uncle Wally
26-01-2015, 10:35
Interesting how the reporter also spoke in perfect English yelling "stop! stop!"

Now maybe we should look at the videos with the "Ukrainian rebels" who are speaking perfect Chechen ?



You really aren't that bright are you? Russians use the word stop also.

Maybe after hearing the guy speak English she switch to English?


You really hate when someone points out you're wrong.

PJB
26-01-2015, 10:38
So I guess the guy in this video who speaks perfect English and is carrying and AK 47 was born in Ukraine. Watch at about 40 seconds in when a news reporter tries to talk with him he says "outta my face, outta my face please" maybe they made English the official language of Ukraine?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=g_SzRHMeiBE&x-yt-ts=1421914688

I have many neighbors who were born in Ukraine and speak perfect Ukrainian, Russian and ENGLISH. Our Ukrainian radio station has daily broadcasts in all three languages and many English speaking Ukrainians from all over the world have returned to their home country to fight with the Ukrainian army.

PJB
26-01-2015, 10:50
You really aren't that bright are you? Russians use the word stop also.

Maybe after hearing the guy speak English she switch to English?


You really hate when someone points out you're wrong.

Gee Whiz! All those years living in Russia (and spending time in Ukraine) and I missed all those people yelling "Stop!" in perfect unaccented English. Now after watching that video 5 times, I am very sure the reporter spoke English first.

Now as for native born Ukrainians speaking English; I live in a neighborhood that has more than just a few, and I hear my neighbors speaking fluently in both languages without accents. I also read (and hear on our local Ukrainian radio station) about Ukrainians from all over the world who are returning to fight with the Ukrainian army. And yes, (unlike the Russian "tourists") they were born there.

Uncle Wally
26-01-2015, 11:04
Gee Whiz! All those years living in Russia (and spending time in Ukraine) and I missed all those people yelling "Stop!" in perfect unaccented English. Now after watching that video 5 times, I am very sure the reporter spoke English first.

Now as for native born Ukrainians speaking English; I live in a neighborhood that has more than just a few, and I hear my neighbors speaking fluently in both languages without accents. I also read (and hear on our local Ukrainian radio station) about Ukrainians from all over the world who are returning to fight with the Ukrainian army. And yes, (unlike the Russian "tourists") they were born there.


She is speaking Russian like other people in the video. You need your ears check.

Born in this mostly Russian city where more people speak Russian?

PJB
26-01-2015, 11:22
The reporter is speaking Russian then at 0:38 she yells "stop! stop!" in English then goes back to speaking Russian.


Ukrainians born in Ukraine who have moved to English speaking countries are returning to Ukraine to fight with the Ukrainian army. And when spoken to in English they will most likely answer in English. When spoken to in Russian they will most likely answer in Russian. And if they are busy trying to defend their country from Russian "tourists" they will tell anybody who is in their way to "get out of my face".....

Russian Lad
26-01-2015, 11:40
Gee Whiz! All those years living in Russia (and spending time in Ukraine) and I missed all those people yelling "Stop!" in perfect unaccented English. Now after watching that video 5 times, I am very sure the reporter spoke English first.

PJB, "Stop!" is possible in Russian in such circumstances, especially in its twisted version somewhere in the south, so Wally can be right about this. Have listened to it once again - yes, she spoke it in Enlglish, most likely. Again, doesn't change anything.
As to the guy speaking English - so what? It doesn't change anything. A famous Russian actor died fighting for ISIS just yesterday. It doesn't mean Russia supports ISIS or fights on its side.
Can also be a deliberate provocation by the pro-Russian forces in the town.
It doesn't change anything.



Ukrainians born in Ukraine who have moved to English speaking countries are returning to Ukraine to fight with the Ukrainian army. And when spoken to in English they will most likely answer in English. When spoken to in Russian they will most likely answer in Russian.

That's a rather far-fetched assessment. He is clearly not Ukrainian.

PJB
26-01-2015, 12:10
I'm not saying that guy is Ukrainian. Looking at him from the back as he is running and being filmed by a moving camera makes it impossible to say for sure who he is and where he is from.

Wally is implying that there is something sinister about an English speaking fighter in Ukraine, I am saying that it could easily be a logical reason for that guy to speak English. (and yes he could be a Ukrainian born expat from an English speaking country.)

FatAndy
26-01-2015, 12:16
It doesn't change anything.
Sure. Popasnaya is taken by DNR, 8000 of UkrowOrriors are in the "pocket" under Debal'tsevo. Again. Jumping on rakes as a favourite Ukrosport goes on.
Waiting for the squeal of Ukronazists and their Western masters.

http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/5/9/6/4688695.jpg

Russian Lad
26-01-2015, 12:31
Sure. Popasnaya is taken by DNR, 8000 of UkrowOrriors are in the "pocket" under Debal'tsevo. Again. Jumping on rakes as a favourite Ukrosport goes on.
Waiting for the squeal of Ukronazists and their Western masters.

Are you ready to be disconnected from Swift?
It has been clear from the start that Russia is much stronger militarily, not sure what you are so happy about. However, if the conflict expands, I don't think there will be many Russians willing to murder Ukrainians on their soil and to die themselves, despite the vicious propaganda on TV. You see it as some local victories, I see it as the ultimate defeat for my country. You are sort of like "что вижу, то и пою", I see the future consequences. They don't look good for Russia, to put it mildly.
Once again, rename the thread, you are fooling only yourself here.

FatAndy
26-01-2015, 12:44
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/54c5ee949a794767c580bff7 - 12th humanitarian convoy by MChS to depart tomorrow, 27th Jan.


The Dark Lord has promised to increase allowed time at RF territory for Ukraine citizens... especially those having conscription age. :) http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/54c6485b9a79471efebe8828

quincy
29-01-2015, 00:37
The price of the warfare resumed by President Petro Poroshhenko in the east is terrifying. The hacked documents claim at least 1,100 servicemen of the Ukrainian army have lost their lives over the period of the last two weeks. Many dozens Ukrainian soldiers gave up to separatist forces. Ukrainian army has lost over 100 tanks and the armored vehicles.

The documents the hacktivists claim they have obtained paint a grim picture of the Ukrainian warfare: discipline of the troops is undermined, troops are running out of reserves, mobilization is stalled as army draftees are escaping the country, mostly running to Russia and other neighboring states.
http://rt.com/news/227071-ukraine-troops-hide-losses/

Russian Lad
29-01-2015, 02:16
Yawn. How much are you paid per post? More than Wally?

quincy
29-01-2015, 02:19
Yawn. How much are you paid per post? More than Wally?

the village idiot is out again!

Russian Lad
29-01-2015, 02:43
I see that, nice to now you are still around.

Uncle Wally
29-01-2015, 04:45
The price of the warfare resumed by President Petro Poroshhenko in the east is terrifying. The hacked documents claim at least 1,100 servicemen of the Ukrainian army have lost their lives over the period of the last two weeks. Many dozens Ukrainian soldiers gave up to separatist forces. Ukrainian army has lost over 100 tanks and the armored vehicles.

The documents the hacktivists claim they have obtained paint a grim picture of the Ukrainian warfare: discipline of the troops is undermined, troops are running out of reserves, mobilization is stalled as army draftees are escaping the country, mostly running to Russia and other neighboring states.
http://rt.com/news/227071-ukraine-troops-hide-losses/



Must be why America is pushing for Ukraine to get another billion as quick as possible.

PJB
29-01-2015, 05:54
Of course RT is the news service world renowned for accurate and truthful reporting. ;)

Benedikt
29-01-2015, 06:24
Of course RT is the news service world renowned for accurate and truthful reporting. ;)



CNN or Fox News.

PJB
29-01-2015, 06:26
CNN or Fox News.


I don't recall quoting either of those ...............

Benedikt
29-01-2015, 06:42
I don't recall quoting either of those ...............



it is MY statement.

Fantastika
29-01-2015, 06:46
Yawn. How much are you paid per post? More than Wally?

100s of Ukraine soldiers protest in front of presidential administration (http://rt.com/news/195596-kiev-soldiers-president-ukraine/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6atEyAtD7Hw#t=60

quincy
29-01-2015, 10:27
Of course RT is the news service world renowned for accurate and truthful reporting. ;)

you must be really proud of the US media that sold you the Vietnam war and then the Iraq war

quincy
29-01-2015, 10:48
100s of Ukraine soldiers protest in front of presidential administration (http://rt.com/news/195596-kiev-soldiers-president-ukraine/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6atEyAtD7Hw#t=60


But the 'free' media have decided this is not suitable material for their audiences!

Uncle Wally
29-01-2015, 11:13
But the 'free' media have decided this is not suitable material for their audiences!


They are preoccupied with how much air is in footballs and Mrs Obama not wearing a headscarf while meeting the Saudi king. You know important stuff.

FatAndy
29-01-2015, 12:23
There is one beauty but stupid girl in Ukraine, Nastya Dmitruk.

Last year she has wrote the funny rhyme "We'll never be brothers", read it in the front of camera, posted on youtube, milliones of likes/reposts/tweets from maidowns and banderlogs, songs of supporters in lapdogs like Georgia and Baltics... she has became almost a national icon... and what has happened yesterday?

Banderlogs have started to squeal that her boyfriend has escaped to aggressive RF to hide from democratic UA mobilisation/conscription. https://twitter.com/ZakSerge/status/560211585277648897

And I almost understand him. It's possible to live with idiocy in the inter-ear ganglia, with beauty and stupid one. But it's almost impossible to survive with a bullet in that ganglia.

So maidown of a brain can go to remission... :-) Russian Lad, bro, not all is lost for you yet ;)

Insha alla...

Russian Lad
29-01-2015, 13:17
Russian Lad, bro, not all is lost for you yet

Not all is lost for you either. But every day is becoming precious.
On one hand, you are telling us you don't watch the Russian TV, on the other hand you are suggesting we should trust a twitter from an unknown source. Even if it is true, so what? I have heard about many Russians who vehemently refused to go on vacation to DNR recently.

Armoured
29-01-2015, 13:35
But the 'free' media have decided this is not suitable material for their audiences!

Fortunately there is still some quasi-free media in Russia. But this is also not getting play on RT:
http://www.echo.msk.ru/blog/aillar/1482942-echo/

Basically, Girkin's statements show that the whole official Russian narrative about Crimea was one long series of lies.

FatAndy
29-01-2015, 13:37
you are suggesting we should trust a twitter from an unknown source.
It is unknown for you. For those who're "in the theme", it is rather famous maidown-banderlog-white-striper from Pskov ;)


Even if it is true, so what?
Nothing. Just remember - remission is possible :)

Russian Lad
29-01-2015, 13:45
it is rather famous maidown-banderlog-white-striper from Pskov


Ok, let's assume his info is true. What does it show or change? Are all the Russians who sang their song in response on vacation in DNR yet? Why are you hiding from taking vacation in DNR? I have heard many times from many Russian deputies that it is an honor for a true Russian patriot to go on vacation there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyK8u8zHszc

FatAndy
29-01-2015, 13:55
Для боротьбы!!! :rofl:

Russian Lad
29-01-2015, 14:01
Well, surzhik. The video is genuine though. You think not? There are hundreds similar ones. It has all been saved and carefully stored for the future reference, I am sure.

FatAndy
29-01-2015, 14:32
There are hundreds similar ones. It has all been saved and carefully stored for the future reference, I am sure.
:agree:

PJB
29-01-2015, 22:20
you must be really proud of the US media that sold you the Vietnam war and then the Iraq war

I love the response of "quick change the subject" by bringing up a completely off topic subject.

(Americans were not swayed by pro war media coverage of Vietnam or Iraq as evidenced by the massive anti war protests. There was also honest and accurate unpleasant media coverage of those wars which the government did not prevent nor did it shut down the stations or arrest the reporters).

Now if you want to play "your countries past atrocities" we can always start with Stalin's exploits.

Uncle Wally
29-01-2015, 22:59
I love the response of "quick change the subject" by bringing up a completely off topic subject.

(Americans were not swayed by pro war media coverage of Vietnam or Iraq as evidenced by the massive anti war protests. There was also honest and accurate unpleasant media coverage of those wars which the government did not prevent nor did it shut down the stations or arrest the reporters).

Now if you want to play "your countries past atrocities" we can always start with Stalin's exploits.

They were not swayed? Americans could care less. They did nothing about crimes committed. Bradley Manning is the only one to do time and that because he exposed the crime!


The thing is Stalin is dead for a long time now. Bush on the other hand is in great shape for prosecution. Lets not forget Dick Cheney and the rest. Obama should have a cell waiting too.

PJB
29-01-2015, 23:05
And what charges (actual crimes as defined by US law, not one of your own fantasies) are you planning to bring on Bush, Cheney and Obama?

Uncle Wally
29-01-2015, 23:11
And what charges (actual crimes as defined by US law, not one of your own fantasies) are you planning to bring on Bush, Cheney and Obama?



Google it. Bush has already been charged. That's why he won't leave the country.

It's called war crimes. Look it up.

Uncle Wally
29-01-2015, 23:37
Well back to the war in Ukraine.

Ukrainian rebels take another town.

PJB
29-01-2015, 23:49
Google it. Bush has already been charged. That's why he won't leave the country.

It's called war crimes. Look it up.



All I find is some goofy "reports" from even goofier sources that they were charged "in absentia" by some non important silly group in someplace nobody cares about. Apparently it doesn't have any world recognition since Bush was in Africa to promote women's health in July 2012.

PJB
29-01-2015, 23:51
Well back to the war in Ukraine.

Ukrainian rebels take another town.

Clarification; Russian armed forces take another town.

Uncle Wally
30-01-2015, 01:31
Clarification; Russian armed forces take another town.



As long as you admit the Ukrainian government was overthrown by America I might admit that Russians do live in Ukraine and have long before it was part of Ukraine.

FatAndy
30-01-2015, 11:11
Well back to the war in Ukraine.

Ukrainian rebels take another town.
Incorrect. Healthy forces of Ukrainian society. :)

Uncle Wally
30-01-2015, 12:30
Incorrect. Healthy forces of Ukrainian society. :)

Yes the HFUS!

fenrir
30-01-2015, 12:58
What does Bush have to do with this thread topic? If you're going to move my posts from one thread to another, then move Wally's. He's very often far off topic.

FatAndy
30-01-2015, 13:06
The Hero of maidan, mayor of Kiev Vitaly Klichko counts hours which Putin needs to reach and take Kiev:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZK-9uy8CHM

Judge
30-01-2015, 13:13
What does Bush have to do with this thread topic? If you're going to move my posts from one thread to another, then move Wally's. He's very often far off topic.

The same goes for the Vietnam war†, Bush got carried on from there, there's no need to post deliberate off topic posts in a thread,just to try and prove a point...easier to drop us a PM.

Uncle Wally
30-01-2015, 13:17
What does Bush have to do with this thread topic? If you're going to move my posts from one thread to another, then move Wally's. He's very often far off topic.


But not far from the truth!

FatAndy
30-01-2015, 14:18
Clarification; Russian armed forces take another town.
It's better visible from Oregonschina, yep...

Tell it to The Main UkrowOrrior, he doesn't know or didn't receive new metodichki from Baiden:
http://www.5.ua/ato-na-shodi/myjenko-ykrajna-ne-maye-dokaziv-masovoj-ychasti-zbroinih-sil-rf-y-boyah-na-donbasi-68687.html

If you'll have issues with Ukrainian language, ask RL to translate, he's a specialist... ;)

FatAndy
30-01-2015, 14:52
One funny video, even with Eng subtitles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N53QiqzmH1Q

PJB
30-01-2015, 22:25
One funny video, even with Eng subtitles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N53QiqzmH1Q

There would be a lot less of this if VVP would get his troops and weapons out of Ukraine.


(Oooops! sorry I forgot that the rebels are really all Ukrainians and they got their new weapons from the Kiev Army ).

Uncle Wally
30-01-2015, 23:14
There would be a lot less of this if VVP would get his troops and weapons out of Ukraine.


(Oooops! sorry I forgot that the rebels are really all Ukrainians and they got their new weapons from the Kiev Army ).



And/or America would stop pushing Ukraine to kill their own people. You really have no clue what's going on.