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Judge
23-10-2014, 09:35
Ottawa thrown into turmoil after shooting claims soldier's life.

In scenes unlike any Canada has witnessed in its modern history, MPs barricaded themselves in a parliamentary caucus room by piling furniture against the doors, while others fled the building by clambering down scaffolding erected for repair work. Police went from room to room in parliament, breaking down some doors to check if anyone was hiding inside

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/22/canadian-parliament-hill-lockdown-shootout

Armoured
23-10-2014, 09:53
They're saying this guy - Sergeant-at-Arms of the House - may have shot the perp.

http://wpmedia.o.canada.com/2014/10/ottawa_shooting_vickers_20141022_34799287.jpg

I guess the mace may have been a bit unwieldy.

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 11:30
Thank the Lord for the Sergeant-at-arms. He was armed, the only armed guard in the building, and shot the creep before he could get into Parliament and start shooting legislators. Or maybe, oh, never mind...

The rest of the Canadian Parliament "security" isn't allowed ammo to carry in their guns.

And Quebec advised their soldiers to not wear their uniforms in public. Gee, don't want to to antagonize anyone.

Yesterday, another convert to Islam ran over two Canadian soldiers.

Maybe now the Canadian media will stop bashing Russia, and shine a spotlight on the real terrorism problem, but I doubt it.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 12:26
Ottawa thrown into turmoil after shooting claims soldier's life.

In scenes unlike any Canada has witnessed in its modern history, MPs barricaded themselves in a parliamentary caucus room by piling furniture against the doors, while others fled the building by clambering down scaffolding erected for repair work. Police went from room to room in parliament, breaking down some doors to check if anyone was hiding inside

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/22/canadian-parliament-hill-lockdown-shootout

These cowards want to send young men off to war?

Armoured
23-10-2014, 12:37
Thank the Lord for the Sergeant-at-arms. He was armed, the only armed guard in the building, and shot the creep before he could get into Parliament and start shooting legislators. Or maybe, oh, never mind...

The rest of the Canadian Parliament "security" isn't allowed ammo to carry in their guns.

Bullshit. More stuff you know that isn't so. "Since 2010, officers who packed semi-automatic 9-mm pistols have also been equipped with Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine-guns."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/22/commons_security_already_tight_before_shooting.html

And the Sergeant-at-Arms is one who is usually _not_ armed (well, except for the mace and the sword). Apparently keeps a gun at his desk, which was nearby.

Not yet clear how the guy got in so far, and clearly something wrong with the security (as in the article), but facts and what happened not fully known yet.

rusmeister
23-10-2014, 12:38
These cowards want to send young men off to war?

Why not? They now send young women off to war.

Armoured
23-10-2014, 12:41
These cowards want to send young men off to war?

What was cowardly about it? They were instructed to do so by police.

Armoured
23-10-2014, 13:49
Timeline from BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29733735

In short, the attack on the soldier at the war memorial (Cenotaph) took place at 9.52. Armed police officers were pursuing him as he entered parliament. The video with the gunfire exchange that _seems_ to be when the shooter was taken down is at about 9.56. I.e. about five minutes, less than ten.

Much of the rest of the next several hours _seems_ to have been consumed by police searching for / confirming that there was no second (or third) shooter - possibly due to conflicting reports that the shooter had a driver - including searching every room in the main parliament building (an absolute warren), breaking down doors when they couldn't otherwise get in. Also conflicting reports elsewhere about things to confuse things further.

Speculating: the shooter got into parliament entranceway despite there being armed guards there. He was being pursued by armed police. To me, it's entirely possible that police made the call to _not_ engage on the lawn or at the entrance (both generally very busy if not crowded) for fear of an exchange of gunfire with plenty of civilians around, i.e. radioed to guards at entrance to clear that area. In the video, police seem to be shouting to the guy to put his weapon down.

Again, speculation - but there are plausible and reasonable explanations as to how he got so far.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 14:08
What was cowardly about it? They were instructed to do so by police.



That's right! You know what happens to you if you don't follow police orders, the shoot you!

I am not so sure the police told them to climb down the scaffolding and run away. I heard today one of them say "We will not be intimidated" which means, we will hide while we send out more of our idiot thugs to keep this cycle of violence going because that is what makes us the most money.

Armoured
23-10-2014, 14:18
That's right! You know what happens to you if you don't follow police orders, the shoot you!

You must be too used to living in places where people are afraid of the police. I didn't see any sign whatsoever from the Ottawa footage of that.


I am not so sure the police told them to climb down the scaffolding and run away.

And you know this how?


I heard today one of them say "We will not be intimidated" which means, we will hide while we send out more of our idiot thugs to keep this cycle of violence going because that is what makes us the most money.

Speaking of derailing threads with idiotic, off-topic editorial comments...

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 15:08
You must be too used to living in places where people are afraid of the police. I didn't see any sign whatsoever from the Ottawa footage of that.



And you know this how?



Speaking of derailing threads with idiotic, off-topic editorial comments...


I know this because when this kind if thing happens they call for a lock down which means you don't go climbing out windows because the doors are locked. You are starting to lose any kind of logic and are ruduced to attacking everything and anything I write, not a good sign.


I would agree that Canadians are less afraid of the police as too terrorist but that seems to be changing and who's fault is that? I lived in the Police State of America and all you have to do is be black in America which is a crime, like DWB (Driving While Black) or watch youtube.


Watch how the coward police kill unarmed people and even a crippled guy in a wheelchair. You are 10 times more likely to be killed in America by police than terrorist. And you know why I can't prove this to your exceptional satisfaction? Because the police don't keep records of how many people they kill.

Careful the first one is pretty sick as they yell at a dead guy to put his hands out then set a dog to bite the dead man as they are too afraid to go near a man who has just been shot 6 times and is not moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2ghdM66U4Y

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 15:39
Watch that video at 11:45 and see how the none of the cops want to walk up on the dead guy they just shot. One cop tells the other "You shot him so you go first so you can shoot him again" Then about 10 cops all try to hide behind the one cop as they slowly go forward. Brave huh?


Or the unarmed Sunday school teacher shot because she tried to drive away.

Another the idiots yelling for the guy to put his hands out and he keeps saying "I can't I'm hit"

Armoured
23-10-2014, 16:53
I know this because when this kind if thing happens they call for a lock down which means you don't go climbing out windows because the doors are locked. You are starting to lose any kind of logic and are ruduced to attacking everything and anything I write, not a good sign.

I think it's possible that police told them to use the windows. But I don't know.


I would agree that Canadians are less afraid of the police as too terrorist but that seems to be changing and who's fault is that? I lived in the Police State of America and all you have to do is be black in America which is a crime, like DWB (Driving While Black) or watch youtube.

This is why I assume you are (still) American. Because no matter what happens, it's about America.

Armoured
23-10-2014, 17:07
In short, the attack on the soldier at the war memorial (Cenotaph) took place at 9.52. Armed police officers were pursuing him as he entered parliament. The video with the gunfire exchange that _seems_ to be when the shooter was taken down is at about 9.56. I.e. about five minutes, less than ten.

I've now seen about five timelines that all seem to contradict each other. Some say the video with shooting is 9.56 (minutes after the first shooting), or ten am, or 10.15, to as much as 45 mins later.

(I have to admit I find this confusing - wouldn't the Globe reporter's video have a time stamp?)

[editadd] Despite contradictory timelines, it still looks like the main takedown/shooting at parliament where the shooter was killed was before ten - i.e. a very short time after the first shooting. Given that you could walk from the cenotaph to the main building of parliament in five minutes (not running or even hurrying), this all seems to have happened very quickly.

Armoured
23-10-2014, 18:44
I am not so sure the police told them to climb down the scaffolding and run away.

Story on the scaffolding is that there were limited exit points (crime scene). Construction workers moved scaffolding nearby over so people could leave a cafeteria. I think we can safely say there is no way police would have allowed this if not agreed. Construction workers probably put themselves at some risk, even if small, in doing this.

So basically Wally: you calling either them or the people leaving cowards is an asinine, stupid and slanderous comment, and you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

AstarD
23-10-2014, 18:48
But they weren't Russians. They can't have been brave.

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 19:11
Bullshit. More stuff you know that isn't so. "Since 2010

I was talking about the "guard" at the Unknown Soldier Monument, . The one he killed first.

That "security guard" had a rifle with no bullets.

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 19:21
That's right! You know what happens to you if you don't follow police orders, the shoot you!

I am not so sure the police told them to climb down the scaffolding and run away. I heard today one of them say "We will not be intimidated" which means, we will hide while we send out more of our idiot thugs to keep this cycle of violence going because that is what makes us the most money.

PM Harper also said the same thing "Canada will not be intimidated." However, yesterday Quebec ordered all military personnel not to wear their uniforms in public. Don't want our blessed and peaceful Islamic immigrants to think any of the infidels dislike them. Looks like someone is * (what's a synonym for "intimidated"?)

Armoured
23-10-2014, 19:38
I was talking about the "guard" at the Unknown Soldier Monument, . The one he killed first.

That "security guard" had a rifle with no bullets.

What was your phrase? Words have meanings? Here's what you wrote:


Thank the Lord for the Sergeant-at-arms. He was armed, the only armed guard in the building, and shot the creep before he could get into Parliament and start shooting legislators. Or maybe, oh, never mind...

The rest of the Canadian Parliament "security" isn't allowed ammo to carry in their guns.

Whereas the 'guard' at the Cenotaph is an honour guard, not in a building, several hundred metres from the parliament building.

And parliament itself has armed guards.

So you were 'talking about' something else, but using words that didn't remotely connect to facts.

I repeat: more stuff you know (or say) that isn't so.

Armoured
23-10-2014, 19:41
PM Harper also said the same thing "Canada will not be intimidated." However, yesterday Quebec ordered all military personnel not to wear their uniforms in public. Don't want our blessed and peaceful Islamic immigrants to think any of the infidels dislike them. Looks like someone is * (what's a synonym for "intimidated"?)

The actual order (apparently) was for off-duty soldiers not to wear them - no change for on-duty.

Whether that's intimidation, dunno. For safety reasons can understand the logic, but thoroughly disagree with the decision.

FatAndy
23-10-2014, 19:41
Easier, comrades...

My condolences to the family and friends of the guard killed near monument...

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 21:07
Bullshit. More stuff you know that isn't so. "Since 2010, officers who packed semi-automatic 9-mm pistols have also been equipped with Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine-guns."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/22/commons_security_already_tight_before_shooting.html

And the Sergeant-at-Arms is one who is usually _not_ armed (well, except for the mace and the sword). Apparently keeps a gun at his desk, which was nearby.

Not yet clear how the guy got in so far, and clearly something wrong with the security (as in the article), but facts and what happened not fully known yet.

What a load, from someone who takes the truth and twists it into a pretzel.

So if there were all these armed security guards placed all over the building, then why did the sergeant-at-arms have to go back to his office, unlock the gun cabinet, get his weapon, then return to the scene and shoot the psycho? Where was all this "armed security"?

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 21:08
The actual order (apparently) was for off-duty soldiers not to wear them - no change for on-duty.

Whether that's intimidation, dunno. For safety reasons can understand the logic, but thoroughly disagree with the decision.

Well, to be completely "safe," hide in your apartment all day, and never go outside.

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 21:23
I would agree that Canadians are less afraid of the police as too terrorist but that seems to be changing and who's fault is that? I lived in the Police State of America and all you have to do is be black in America which is a crime, like DWB (Driving While Black) or watch youtube.

Watch how the coward police kill unarmed people and even a crippled guy in a wheelchair. You are 10 times more likely to be killed in America by police than terrorist. And you know why I can't prove this to your exceptional satisfaction? Because the police don't keep records of how many people they kill.


I totally agree with the "USSA is a police state" postulate, but it is more than just blacks being victims. Plenty of whites are victims of arrogant, overzealous and overarmed police, not just shootings, but, for example, "objecting". For example, one person I know was surprised by tapping at front door in the afternoon. 5 seconds after light knock, door crashed inwards, several heavily armed police and social workers burst into his living room and seized his children. He asked what were they doing and did not stand aside as ordered as they seized his kids. For this he gets 5 years in prison - "interfering with a police officer." The social workers had come to take his kids to "Child Protective Services" because the mother had filed a false complaint of child abuse. He had never been contacted by CPS nor given chance to respond to complaint.

You can get figures on police killings of armed and unarmed suspects from some states and cities. Maybe 400 total in USA last year? When you imply that police target blacks over whites, consider that blacks commit more violent crimes than whites, even though they are only 12% of the population.

And you can Google something like "police shooting" or something, on Google News, for a couple of days, total it up, and extrapolate from there to get a yearly figure.

The problem with the Ferguson case is that the media and "race-industry" hustlers are making it a racial issue. Police power is not just a black issue, I see it as a problem affecting all Americans.

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 22:15
Example of police power in the US gone mad: the White House fence jumper, yesterday (yes, another one) was brought down guard dogs, trained German Shepherds. The perp fought back against the dogs, and was charged with the felony of "assaulting a police officer," as if the dog is a human being. If you shoot a police dog, you can be charged with "murder of a police officer."

Bizarrely, a couple years ago, there was an incident where the cops arrived, and the cop rushed from his car, leaving the car running, but it was in "park", stopped. There was a police dog in the car, and somehow, the dog caused the car to go into "drive." The car went forward and ran over an elderly lady, killing her. Was the dog or cop charged with "murder"? Nope, this was just an "accident" said the media and police.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 22:29
Story on the scaffolding is that there were limited exit points (crime scene). Construction workers moved scaffolding nearby over so people could leave a cafeteria. I think we can safely say there is no way police would have allowed this if not agreed. Construction workers probably put themselves at some risk, even if small, in doing this.

So basically Wally: you calling either them or the people leaving cowards is an asinine, stupid and slanderous comment, and you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

Ashamed? Me?

Look you try to imply that anybody who has a different view than yours is somehow stupid. It's in the way you write. Fantasticka I think feels the same. From the first reports that I heard it seemed that these people were just cowering in their offices and climbing out windows to save their own skin.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 22:38
But they weren't Russians. They can't have been brave.



Yeah because if they were Russians they would all come running out and started yelling "Shoot me shoot me! No shoot me shoot me! No shoot me first I'm the one you want to shoot! And by doing so confused the assailant. If that didn't work for long they would start to beat each other yelling " Hey I was here first! and Oh yeah but you were shot the last time!" Throwing the assailant into even more doubt about who to shoot and by so giving the police time to take aim and kill him.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 22:43
I totally agree with the "USSA is a police state" postulate, but it is more than just blacks being victims. Plenty of whites are victims of arrogant, overzealous and overarmed police, not just shootings, but, for example, "objecting". For example, one person I know was surprised by tapping at front door in the afternoon. 5 seconds after light knock, door crashed inwards, several heavily armed police and social workers burst into his living room and seized his children. He asked what were they doing and did not stand aside as ordered as they seized his kids. For this he gets 5 years in prison - "interfering with a police officer." The social workers had come to take his kids to "Child Protective Services" because the mother had filed a false complaint of child abuse. He had never been contacted by CPS nor given chance to respond to complaint.

You can get figures on police killings of armed and unarmed suspects from some states and cities. Maybe 400 total in USA last year? When you imply that police target blacks over whites, consider that blacks commit more violent crimes than whites, even though they are only 12% of the population.

And you can Google something like "police shooting" or something, on Google News, for a couple of days, total it up, and extrapolate from there to get a yearly figure.

The problem with the Ferguson case is that the media and "race-industry" hustlers are making it a racial issue. Police power is not just a black issue, I see it as a problem affecting all Americans.


Yes I've heard that now being white doesn't mean you won't get shot and or beat. About blacks commiting more crime that is debateable and they are put into such a bad way that it may be the only way they know. Let's get blacks better places to live and better schools and we'll see.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 22:49
What a load, from someone who takes the truth and twists it into a pretzel.



Pretzel lodgic?


Steely Dan - Pretzel Logic - YouTube

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 22:59
Let's get blacks better places to live and better schools and we'll see.

That's been tried, for 60 years now. Welfare, food stamps, free housing, integration, these policies destroyed the black family, and with the end of the black family came the distortion of the black community's ethics, leading to the social chaos of the ghetto. It's not a question of money, it's the dependency on government created in the context of such "helpful" programs. In my village there are 2 schools, one is the Catholic school, with tuition of $1600/year. The other is the public school, supported by taxpayers to the tune of $14,000/year/student. Should I tell you which school graduates smarter students?

So the programs to "help" black people were designed by mostly white social scientists, the intelligentsia, yes, that you can blame on whites.

For an example, look at Ukraine. Russia was providing them welfare, in the form of subsidies for gas. Look how they react to getting their welfare cut off! They demand free gas, they want Poland to send them free food, they throw out their legislature, so they can "elect" a different legislature - one in which dissent or alternative views are not allowed. Kiev demands gas now, and promise to pay later. Oh, right! I'm sure they will pay later, just like they never paid a dime on their past debts. Ukraine is nothing but a welfare deadbeat. Now in America we have institutionalized deadbeats for 3-4 generations. Free this, free that, Goddamn rich people! Raise their taxes, loot the stores to get my social justice (free big screen TV)! Make a flashmob and just rob what's OURS! Like that guy in Ferguson, "I'm just gonna TAKE those cigarette papers, f$ck that rich store owner!"

Forget about it, I need to go ride bicycle...

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 14:08
That's been tried, for 60 years now. Welfare, food stamps, free housing, integration, these policies destroyed the black family, and with the end of the black family came the distortion of the black community's ethics, leading to the social chaos of the ghetto. It's not a question of money, it's the dependency on government created in the context of such "helpful" programs. In my village there are 2 schools, one is the Catholic school, with tuition of $1600/year. The other is the public school, supported by taxpayers to the tune of $14,000/year/student. Should I tell you which school graduates smarter students?

So the programs to "help" black people were designed by mostly white social scientists, the intelligentsia, yes, that you can blame on whites.

For an example, look at Ukraine. Russia was providing them welfare, in the form of subsidies for gas. Look how they react to getting their welfare cut off! They demand free gas, they want Poland to send them free food, they throw out their legislature, so they can "elect" a different legislature - one in which dissent or alternative views are not allowed. Kiev demands gas now, and promise to pay later. Oh, right! I'm sure they will pay later, just like they never paid a dime on their past debts. Ukraine is nothing but a welfare deadbeat. Now in America we have institutionalized deadbeats for 3-4 generations. Free this, free that, Goddamn rich people! Raise their taxes, loot the stores to get my social justice (free big screen TV)! Make a flashmob and just rob what's OURS! Like that guy in Ferguson, "I'm just gonna TAKE those cigarette papers, f$ck that rich store owner!"

Forget about it, I need to go ride bicycle...



Yeah I really liked how the CIA and FBI started selling crack in black neighborhoods back in the 80's that must have helped black people everwhere. You know I lived in the same town as Dick Gregory and was friends with his daughter. His kids got dropped off at school in a Rolls Royce while all the white kids took the bus. They were all very good people. Can't say that for a lot of the white people there.

Uncle Wally
24-10-2014, 14:27
Looks like it's open season for cops in the US.

Police: Hatchet-wielding suspect shot by officers

NEW YORK (AP) New York City police shot and killed a hatchet-wielding man on Thursday after he suddenly attacked a group of patrol officers without warning in broad daylight on a busy commercial district in Queens.





At a news conference at a hospital where one officer was being treated for a serious head wound, Police Commissioner William Bratton said that investigators were still trying to confirm the identity of the assailant and determine a motive.

Security videotape and witness accounts appeared to leave no doubt that the man purposely targeted four rookie New York Police Department officers, police said. Moments before the attack, he was seen on a street corner crouching down to pull the hatchet out of backpack before he charged the officers and began swinging the hatchet with a two-handed grip, police said.

Asked if the attack could be related to terrorism, Bratton didn't rule it out. He cited the fatal shooting of a soldier in Canada earlier this week what officials there have called a terror attack as reason for concern.

http://news.yahoo.com/police-hatchet-wielding-suspect-shot-officers-234534243.html

Yaks
24-10-2014, 14:40
what was really impressive was how fast the police responded to the incident. Contrary to Fantastika's claims, the CCTV shows they were only metres behind him when he stole the second car and pulled up right behind him as he was running into the building.