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AstarD
21-10-2014, 11:27
Total's CEO Christophe de Margerie dies in Moscow plane crash

Christophe de Margerie, the chief executive of French oil company Total, has died in an air crash in Moscow.

His corporate jet collided with a snow plough and then was engulfed in flames. All four people on board were killed.

The driver of the snow plough was drunk, according to Russian investigators.

Mr de Margerie, 63, had been chief executive of Europe's third largest oil company since 2007. He was highly regarded within the oil industry.

'Huge loss'
"France is losing an extraordinary business leader who turned Total into a world giant," French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said in a statement.

"France is losing a great industry captain and a patriot."

Russian President Vladimir Putin sent his condolences.

News agency Tass quoted a Kremlin spokesman as saying: "The President highly appreciated de Mergerie's business skills, his continued commitment to the development of not only bilateral Russian-French relations, but also on multi-faceted levels."

Mr de Margerie joined Total Group after graduating from the Ecole Superieure de Commerce in Paris in 1974.

At the company, where he had spent his entire career, he was nicknamed "Big Moustache".

John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil, told the BBC: "It's a huge loss to the industry and its future focus.

"What he has done for Total in repositioning the company to return to integrity and sound operations is deeply respected and highly regarded."

According to Russia's Vedomosti newspaper, Mr de Margerie had met Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev at his country residence outside Moscow to discuss foreign investment in Russia.

Russian investments
Total is an important player in the Russian energy market and Mr de Margerie was a staunch defender of maintaining ties, despite Western sanctions against Moscow over its actions in Ukraine.

Total is one of the biggest foreign investors in Russia and is planning to double its output from the country by 2020.

It is working on the Yamal project, a $27bn joint venture to extract natural gas in northwest Siberia.

During his time at the helm of Total Mr de Margerie successfully defended the company against allegations of corruption around the UN oil-for-food programme in Iraq.

He maintained the company's investments in Burma and Iran despite US sanctions against those countries.

Shares in Total are down 2% in Paris.

Vnukovo-3 Business Aviation Center at Moscow"s Vnukovo airport
Mr de Margerie was flying from Moscow's Vnukovo airport, southwest of Moscow
Mr de Margerie's jet had been due to fly to Paris from Moscow's Vnukovo International Airport.

Vnukovo, is located to the southwest of Moscow and is used by President Vladimir Putin and other government officials.

Russia's emergencies ministry said in a statement the accident had involved a Falcon-50 plane shortly before midnight local time (20:00 GMT) on Monday.

"Among the chief versions for what happened, investigators are looking at a mistake by the air traffic controllers and the actions of the driver of the snow plough. Apart from that, they will also check the versions of poor weather conditions and mistake by the crew," said Russia's Investigative Committee, a federal agency that answers to President Putin.

"At the current time, it has already been established that the driver of the snow plough was drunk."

Reports say the visibility at airport was 350m (1,150ft).

An investigation is now under way.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29699733

Suuryaa
21-10-2014, 15:28
RIP, and condolences to their families

AstarD
21-10-2014, 15:31
RIP, and condolences to their families
Certainly. Who is it?

Suuryaa
21-10-2014, 15:35
Certainly. Who is it?

I should have written, all on board.

AstarD
21-10-2014, 15:39
Ok, I guess I'm going to have to do a Google search.

Armoured
21-10-2014, 15:44
Ok, I guess I'm going to have to do a Google search.

It's the executive jet that the head of Total was on.

No other passengers, but three crew. (I hope I have this right, it's what the reports I read said)

RIP.

AstarD
21-10-2014, 15:46
Oh. Yes. RIP. I already posted about this.

bydand
21-10-2014, 16:59
What a tragedy. RIP Christophe de Margerie and the plane crew. Condolences also to family, friends, and coworkers

IMHO its sad, that if this happened in America, there would already be five pages in this thread denouncing the American devils. Probably a conspiracy theory or two also.

JanC
21-10-2014, 17:18
Very rare type of accident, that this can happen at a sizeable international airport is stunning. At least, the only way I can see a departing jet hitting a snow plow is if the plow was intruding on an active runway. All you then need is heavy fog and you've got a disaster.

Could've been a 737 with 100+ pax just as easily.

FatAndy
21-10-2014, 17:44
http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2014/falcon_f-glsa.html - MAK website page on the investigation.

Benedikt
21-10-2014, 18:41
Very rare type of accident, that this can happen at a sizeable international airport is stunning. At least, the only way I can see a departing jet hitting a snow plow is if the plow was intruding on an active runway. All you then need is heavy fog and you've got a disaster.

Could've been a 737 with 100+ pax just as easily.


http://orf.at/stories/2250448/2250447/
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/snow-plough-driver-denies-being-drunk-during-total-ceo-s-plane-crash/509804.html

same also on the 6 pm news on 1st channel.
it was -criminal negligence- of several managers, no co ordination between them. and heads will roll. and it NOT the little, most of the time innocent or least responsible fish, who get -cleaned- as it is so very often done in Russia, or in other places, makes no difference.

Suuryaa
21-10-2014, 20:19
Very rare type of accident, that this can happen at a sizeable international airport is stunning. At least, the only way I can see a departing jet hitting a snow plow is if the plow was intruding on an active runway. All you then need is heavy fog and you've got a disaster.

Could've been a 737 with 100+ pax just as easily.

Also struck me as very meaningless. 4 people dead due to utter irresponsibility.

FatAndy
21-10-2014, 21:30
Very rare type of accident, that this can happen at a sizeable international airport is stunning. At least, the only way I can see a departing jet hitting a snow plow is if the plow was intruding on an active runway. All you then need is heavy fog and you've got a disaster.

Could've been a 737 with 100+ pax just as easily.
VKO has 2 runways, X-crossed (see Yandex/Gugol maps, sat view).
There is a version that this snowbrush was cleaning one airstrip, while another was clear for takeoff for that Falcon. They seem have collided directly in the center. Why taxiing dispatcher and start/takeoff dispatcher have allowed the situation, I dunno. There are some data in media that taxiing dispatcher was a trainee/ probationer. Plus the rather densy fog/drizzle.
Will see what MAK and IC will dig.

TolkoRaz
22-10-2014, 10:34
IMHO its sad, that if this happened in America, there would already be five pages in this thread denouncing the American devils.

Feeling persecuted?

bydand
22-10-2014, 14:08
Feeling persecuted?

Not personally, but I really do think its sad some people use this Expat forum as a means to berate another country, and use it in straw-man arguments. Thats what people with inferiority complexes do to puff themselves up.

Feeling inferior?

TolkoRaz
22-10-2014, 15:46
Apparently, the snow driver does not drink because of a heart condition - Ironically, I guess that makes him teeTotal! :coffee:


Feeling inferior?

Not when communicating with you! :p

Judge
23-10-2014, 09:22
Latest news..

4 Vnukovo employees detained, questioned over Total CEO jet crash
http://rt.com/news/198368-four-detained-vnukovo-total/

Russian Lad
23-10-2014, 10:28
My post with condolences was deleted - whatever, I am not even asking why anymore.

FatAndy
23-10-2014, 10:52
I was too lazy to clean it from your usual off-topic garbage. But you've restored condolences. It's good.

FatAndy
23-10-2014, 11:30
Latest news..

4 Vnukovo employees detained, questioned over Total CEO jet crash
http://rt.com/news/198368-four-detained-vnukovo-total/
Director and deputy director of VKO have resigned, according to RBC.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 12:43
I was too lazy to clean it from your usual off-topic garbage. But you've restored condolences. It's good.


What about bydand's off topic kaka? Are we to understand that RL's Russian kaka is somehow worse then bydand's American poo poo? RL's kaka was small compared to the big American poo poo bydand took. Do we have to except that just because Americans are more full of it that they can just make a bigger mess? I can't believe I now feel bad for RL

Armoured
23-10-2014, 12:47
What about bydand's off topic kaka? Are we to understand that RL's Russian kaka is somehow worse then bydand's American poo poo? RL's kaka was small compared to the big American poo poo bydand took.

How is you whingeing about other members and making attacks based on nationality on-topic?


Do we have to except that just because Americans are more full of it that they can just make a bigger mess?

Assuming you are including yourself in this, the answer seems pretty clear.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 13:26
How is you whingeing about other members and making attacks based on nationality on-topic?



Assuming you are including yourself in this, the answer seems pretty clear.


I am not American I was born there lived there for 32 years but I am no longer American.

This thread was derailed by bydand first, but that's ok with you right?

Armoured
23-10-2014, 13:55
This thread was derailed by bydand first, but that's ok with you right?

I'm more ok with his comment that than your usual irrelevant postings where any comment about Russia has to be compared to the USA, music videos, incoherent goldbuggery, reposting any random article that praises Russia/gold, etc.

And certainly more ok with it than you whingeing to the mods in a thread. If you feel strongly about it, write to one of them directly.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 14:26
I'm more ok with his comment that than your usual irrelevant postings where any comment about Russia has to be compared to the USA, music videos, incoherent goldbuggery, reposting any random article that praises Russia/gold, etc.

And certainly more ok with it than you whingeing to the mods in a thread. If you feel strongly about it, write to one of them directly.


Well I was kind of joking about it but now that you're going to get all puffy about.

And can I ask you why you would be ok with bydand doing so?

Armoured
23-10-2014, 14:40
Well I was kind of joking about it but now that you're going to get all puffy about.

Just annoyed by your whingeing about others when you yourself do this _all_ the time.


And can I ask you why you would be ok with bydand doing so?

I think he actually put it quite well:

Not personally, but I really do think its sad some people use this Expat forum as a means to berate another country, and use it in straw-man arguments. Thats what people with inferiority complexes do to puff themselves up.

Which you then confirm by writing:

Are we to understand that RL's Russian kaka is somehow worse then bydand's American poo poo? RL's kaka was small compared to the big American poo poo bydand took. Do we have to except that just because Americans are more full of it that they can just make a bigger mess?

It's like you set out to parody yourself.

FatAndy
23-10-2014, 14:50
What about bydand's off topic kaka?
Let it hang for a while...


Are we to understand that RL's Russian kaka is somehow worse then bydand's American poo poo?
No, I hate their kaka and poo poo in equal degree, but bydand posts it rarely, in comparison...


Do we have to except that just because Americans are more full of it that they can just make a bigger mess?
No, see above, and there is one thing more - bydand is married with our nice lady, so there is some hope she'll bring him up further in the right direction. RL is not married, so no hope... yet. JanC or somebody else called it as "selective justice", I insist it is an individual approach. :verycool:


I can't believe I now feel bad for RL
Buy him a beer when in SPb.:rolleyes:

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 15:29
Let it hang for a while...


No, I hate their kaka and poo poo in equal degree, but bydand posts it rarely, in comparison...


No, see above, and there is one thing more - bydand is married with our nice lady, so there is some hope she'll bring him up further in the right direction. RL is not married, so no hope... yet. JanC or somebody else called it as "selective justice", I insist it is an individual approach. :verycool:


Buy him a beer when in SPb.:rolleyes:


As always your wisdom far exceed mine. He does take care of her kid/kids too and does give jobs to Russians. Ok let him poo poo some more.

You know once when I came back from America I went to kaka poo poo and my wife yelled "Hey don't flush that! It's America poop."

Russian Lad
23-10-2014, 18:10
Originally Posted by Uncle Wally View Post
I can't believe I now feel bad for RL

Yes, I am victimized and harrassed here on a regular basis. But they cannot shut up the Truthъ!:)

FatAndy
23-10-2014, 18:33
Yes, I am victimized and harrassed here on a regular basis.
...and you like it, I know... ;)

Russian Lad
23-10-2014, 19:29
...and you like it, I know...

I have to admit you are correct - like most Russians these days, I am not immune to the Stochholm syndrome.


Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness

bydand
23-10-2014, 19:37
What a tragedy. RIP Christophe de Margerie and the plane crew. Condolences also to family, friends, and coworkers

IMHO its sad, that if this happened in America, there would already be five pages in this thread denouncing the American devils. Probably a conspiracy theory or two also.

Sorry if I derailed this thread, but my comments are not off-topic. They are about the tragedy, and the thread itself. Seems to me it inadvertently provoked someone else to derail it.

Fantastika
23-10-2014, 22:44
Not personally, but I really do think its sad some people use this Expat forum as a means to berate another country, and use it in straw-man arguments. Thats what people with inferiority complexes do to puff themselves up.


Some misunderstanding? I listen to talk radio. So I hear what the Progressives preach (on the hourly "official" news) and I hear what the "Tea Party" (mainstream media has so demonized the phrase "Tea Party" it is now a 4-letter word) Rush, Laura, Michael, Glenn, etc. are saying. I get both sides of the issues.

I buzz around this forum because I want to get different points of view. JanC and Armoured, for example just repeat what I already know, from the Progressive media "news." But I also want to hear and consider what Russians in Russia think, not just what Western Europeans and Americans think about Russia.

I'm not "berating" any country, I'm berating that country's agenda-driven media and the people here who just regurgitate the exact same point-of-view.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 22:59
...and you like it, I know... ;)


He's Russian! He will miss being victimized when he's gone.


But,


Frank Sinatra-That's life lyrics - YouTube

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 23:04
Sorry if I derailed this thread, but my comments are not off-topic. They are about the tragedy, and the thread itself. Seems to me it inadvertently provoked someone else to derail it.


You were doing good until this part " that if this happened in America, there would already be five pages in this thread denouncing the American devils. Probably a conspiracy theory or two also" That's when it started to get into that area that some would say "Don't go there, you don't want to go there!"

I think you and RL are kind of the same, you go looking for it.

Uncle Wally
23-10-2014, 23:09
It's like you set out to parody yourself.


You know I'm now thinking there may be some hope for you.

Just for that I'll give you a video, Sinatra no less. Feel lucky? You should.


Frank Sinatra, My Way, With Lyrics - YouTube

annasophia
24-10-2014, 04:59
Plane Meets Plow: The Curious End of Total S.A. CEO Christophe de Margerie
Published October 22, 2014 | By Rayne

Forgive my skepticism about the accident Monday night that took the life of Christophe de Margerie. CEO of French oil and gas company Total S.A. We’ve been told by enough analysts that several target countries, including Russia, are under siege, though these experts don’t refer to this openly as asymmetric warfare. The recent and ongoing drop in petroleum prices threatens cash inflows to those countries whose economies rely on oil revenues — Russia and Iran among them. The death of an oil industry executive isn’t unexpected given the amount of money in play; people die daily for far less cash.

Not as much as Moscow, mind you, but we get snow where I live in flyover country USA. Any time between mid-October and mid-April we can expect some frozen precipitation. A blizzard in October isn’t unheard of — we had one 17 years ago this week, in fact. I’ve lived with six months of snow per year for most of my life.

Which is why the photo here of the crash site looks sketchy to me.

Early reports indicated the plane carrying de Margerie hit or was hit by a snowplow driven by a drunken operator, in poor visibility. It’s not clear exactly which hit the other based on different accounts across the internet. A Russian reconstruction video furnished to Le Figaro shows the plane’s wing clipping a vehicle upon landing — but the video exerts more effort on the fire and smoke than it does on the initial impact. Note in this second video of the plane after the crash during daylight hours that the wing which hit the plow as characterized in the video is missing.

At least one article claimed debris was spread 200 meters by the plane after impact. Perhaps the wing was in that debris, but it’s not reflected in the Russian reconstruction video. A more recent report said the snowplow was parked on the runway.

Ultimately, what we see is a plane that flipped over — either tipped over by the force of a plow, or flipped over after impact.

And no snow. This particular photo is rather pixelated, but it doesn’t reflect reduced visibility due to snowfall. There’s no snow in the second video link above, though visibility has worsened.Accuweather_MoscowRU_21OCT2014

Other photos from the site similarly reflect no snow. Almanac data from the 48-72 hours before and after the crash reflects temperatures dropping below freezing, but 1 mm to 11 mm of unspecified precipitation between Monday and Tuesday in Moscow depending on the weather site consulted. There had been some snow, the first of the season, on Sunday night local time, but almanac data doesn’t reflect the same amount falling on Monday evening, nor does the almanac data shown in the graphic here report the precipitation on the correct date. (The 10 mm on Monday matches the photo of Sunday’s first snowfall, not the images published of the airport and crash site late Monday night/Tuesday.)

Could there have been a vehicle on the tarmac treating the surface with de-icer? Sure — but why didn’t the various accounts report just that? Not one report out I’ve seen in the last 24 hours has suggested runway icing was a problem.

Could the driver have been drunk? Hell yeah — it’s Russia, where alcoholism is extremely common and too often deadly. But the driver’s lawyer has said the driver was not under the influence as he takes a prescription heart medicine which does not mix with alcohol. Yet more reports indicate the dispatchers may have erred in their instructions, or were themselves under the influence.

Given the tensions between the west and Russia about Ukraine, and the subsequent likely attempts to unsettle Russia’s economy via oil price volatility, and given Total Oil’s position as fourth largest petroleum company, my hinky meter is stuck somewhere between Suspicious and Disbelieving as to the real cause of the CEO’s death.

Whether this tragic event was an accident or deliberate malfeasance, the question I’d like answered is cui bono? Who or what benefited the most from de Margerie’s untimely demise?

He was characterized as “staunch defender of Russia and its energy policies amid the conflict with Ukraine,” and a critic “of Western sanctions against Iran and Russia.”

De Margerie’s last speech in front of Russia’s Foreign Investment Advisory Council during the day Monday was very pro-Russian, pro-oil development and anti-sanction. This is consistent with the CEO’s comments in September when Total’s joint venture with Russia’s Lukoil was halted due to the sanctions. In August, Margerie had expressed commitment to Yamal LNG, a joint venture development project between France’s Total and Russia’s OAO Novatek:

“I am doing everything,” to make progress, Chief Executive Officer Christophe de Margerie said in an interview on Yamal LNG. “There no reason to think that it won’t happen.”

One might reasonably assume the west had a beef with de Margerie, especially if there were any indications he encouraged work undermining sanctions intended to punish Russia for its incursion on Ukraine.

An additional risk factor for de Margerie was Total’s relationship with Iran; the firm had a long history with Iran, having developed its South Pars gas field prior to sanctions in 2009. Margerie kept Total’s foot in Iran’s door, meeting with Iranian president Hassan Rouhani at Davos this year. The CEO hoped to position Total to benefit once sanctions against Iran relaxed. This stance could certainly annoy a few key entities quite a bit.

After an initial outpouring of condolences and florid eulogies for a larger-than-life industry leader, other skeptics have emerged. Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda suggests the crash was the work of Ukrainian special forces. A more measured France 24 says the facts about the accident are “highly contradictory.”

Given the lack of clarity about:

— actual atmospheric and ground conditions at the time of the crash;

— the condition of the snowplow driver;

— the dispatcher(s) who instructed the snowplow driver and cleared de Margerie’s plane to take off;

— the possibility that the pilot may have made any errors contributing to the accident;

— the likelihood de Margerie had annoyed one or more powerful entities with his in-your-face approach to oil and gas development;

skepticism about Monday’s crash and de Margerie’s subsequent death is warranted.


https://www.emptywheel.net/2014/10/22/plane-meets-plow-the-curious-end-of-total-s-a-ceo-christophe-de-margerie/#more-45170

Yaks
24-10-2014, 05:28
yes, as predicted, an article blaming the west for an incident that occurred in Russia. Nothing new under the sun. no thought of personal or governmental responsibility by Russia and Russians-no just blame it all on the west.

annasophia
24-10-2014, 07:35
It is a bit strange about the snowplow isn't it? There is no snow to be seen in the crash photo.

AstarD
24-10-2014, 09:17
It is a bit strange about the snowplow isn't it? There is no snow to be seen in the crash photo.

Now they're saying that there may have been two snowplows out at the same time, and they've arrested the driver of the first snowplow.


Meanwhile in Yekaterinburg...A luggage cart and a plane collided.

Yaks
24-10-2014, 10:31
Snowplow on the grassy knoll?

bydand
24-10-2014, 16:48
You were doing good until this part " that if this happened in America, there would already be five pages in this thread denouncing the American devils. Probably a conspiracy theory or two also" That's when it started to get into that area that some would say "Don't go there, you don't want to go there!"

I think you and RL are kind of the same, you go looking for it.


Look we all know what's going on, just some of us think Russia is doing the right thing.

I see, don't say anything negative about Wally's Russia, or his notions of Russia, or suffer the wrath of Uncle Wally; a fusilade of YouTube videos.

I don't go "looking for it", but anyway, babble all the inanity you want my way.

AstarD
24-10-2014, 16:56
a fusilade of YouTube videos.heheheheh. That's a great turn of phrase.

FatAndy
24-10-2014, 17:08
Comrades, please, back to topic. :rules:

http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2014/falcon_f-glsa.html - MAK reports some parametric data deciphered from blackboxes and restores the sequence of activities

TolkoRaz
25-10-2014, 11:34
MAK reports some parametric data deciphered from blackboxes and restores the sequence of activities

Snowploughs are fitted with blackboxes? :D

Benedikt
25-10-2014, 11:59
Snowploughs are fitted with blackboxes? :D



then the dispatchers ( both in the tower and the dispatchers of the snow plough crews) know where they are and what they were doing. or might simple GPS do the trick?

FatAndy
25-10-2014, 12:25
Snowploughs are fitted with blackboxes? :D
We have such devices, but won't tell you about them © by Mango-Mango, 1996.

Nobbynumbnuts
25-10-2014, 12:47
Reminds me of when i flew out of Vladivostok many years ago. It was snowing very hard and i was sure the flight would be delayed or cancelled. The wings were swept of snow then the plane was de-iced. The snow plough disappeared down the run way in what seemed like a blizzard. I remember thinking at the time, what happens if it breaks down? Anyway, we took off and flew to Moscow..........One of life's great memories! :plane:

FatAndy
25-10-2014, 13:05
Reminds me of when i flew out of Vladivostok many years ago. It was snowing very hard and i was sure the flight would be delayed or cancelled. The wings were swept of snow then the plane was de-iced. The snow plough disappeared down the run way in what seemed like a blizzard. I remember thinking at the time, what happens if it breaks down? Anyway, we took off and flew to Moscow..........One of life's great memories! :plane:
Usual flight as a great memory? :eh:

Nobbynumbnuts
25-10-2014, 13:13
Usual flight as a great memory? :eh:

Maybe usual for you.....;)

JanC
25-10-2014, 15:03
Realtime interactive tracking of airport vehicles exists and is widely used. No idea about Vnukovo though.

Snow plows are such an obvious hazard that it's a very strange type of accident. Aviation accidents tend to be a combination of many unlikely events.