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AstarD
16-09-2014, 11:25
Russia's currency is at an all-time low against the dollar (38.7) and the euro (50).

How low will it go?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/russia-markets-rouble-idUSL6N0RH0MD20140916

JanC
16-09-2014, 11:30
Not much lower for now. The Russian central bank will buy enough roubles to stop it from going close to 40 to the dollar.

FatAndy
16-09-2014, 11:30
Let me play Capt. Obv. It will depend on so called political situation and CB decisions - will they make interventions or not.

quincy
16-09-2014, 11:42
Gold still has some impact on currency and Russia has plenty of it

AstarD
16-09-2014, 11:47
Why don't diamonds have a greater impact on currency? They are more valuable industrially than gold. And Russia has loads of diamonds.

Benedikt
16-09-2014, 11:53
Russia's currency is at an all-time low against the dollar (38.7) and the euro (50).

How low will it go?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/russia-markets-rouble-idUSL6N0RH0MD20140916



the chocolate king will ask the Rada to give the -separatists- what they want. No need to explain, we all know. And the Rada is poised to agree. They see they can't win. Their friends are more or less lukewarm. Much more than words Frau Merkel is also no offering. And the main thing, they see Russia and VV are not caving in. Fall is coming in Germany and winter soon, they need heat and warm water.
And a peace also in the Ukraine. All that fighting and killing was for nothing. the Ruble /$$$ / Euro will go back to a normal situation....

JanC
16-09-2014, 12:31
the Ruble /$$$ / Euro will go back to a normal situation....

Even if everyone shakes hands and goes home tomorrow, it will take a very long time for the rouble to get back to 40-30 €/$ - if ever.

I can see 46 coming back relatively quickly but not much better than that.

Armoured
16-09-2014, 12:51
Gold still has some impact on currency and Russia has plenty of it

Sure - except that the Central Bank has pretty much said it will stop intervening although 'reserves the right to do so.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/18/us-russia-cenbank-rouble-idUSKBN0GI0EE20140818

Russia clearly has enough to intervene to stop a dramatic collapse - but also seems to have decided that managing a dirty float is not very effective and expensive.

So we're left with other macro factors.

And right now, I'd say the incentives are such that it will continue to slide - with ups and downs, and at various speeds, but slide. (Of course, if oil gets drmatically more expensive or other huge external changes, could be different).

But right now:
-Government is mostly increasing spending;
-Budget in ruble terms gets bigger as ruble falls;
-Ruble falling creates _some_ stimulus/improved competitiveness as imports get more expensive/exports cheaper;
-Yes, some increased investment as lower ruble improves competitiveness in short term - but not enough to compensate as gains seem short-term.
-No other structural changes or reforms on horizon that would dramatically change efficiency / competitiveness otherwise.

This is an old formula that we've seen before in many countries: try to inflate away your problems. Incomes fall in real terms as wages don't keep up - but increased revenues from inflation allow you to increase transfers (incl wages) to 'your' people.

Whether this means ongoing accelerating inflation or just persistently high inflation (and falling ruble) for years depends. Primarily on whether the appetite to keep increasing expenditures continues to grow or slows.

We also can't rule out some form of capital controls - although I expect that would just be massively ineffective and costly and reduce investment further.

Whatever happens: every time the ruble gains a bit (after a dramatic fall), someone will claim it is a sign that the economy is improving. Expect it to plateau and meander a bit and then fall again later. Repeat as necessary.

Armoured
16-09-2014, 12:52
Why don't diamonds have a greater impact on currency? They are more valuable industrially than gold. And Russia has loads of diamonds.

I don't discuss gold - too many crazies.

For diamonds, yes, Russia has a lot - but costs are increasing and I understand not much capacity to grow output.

Nobbynumbnuts
16-09-2014, 12:57
Even if everyone shakes hands and goes home tomorrow, it will take a very long time for the rouble to get back to 40-30 €/$ - if ever.

I can see 46 coming back relatively quickly but not much better than that.

If the situation in Ukraine returns to normal and tensions reduce with the west there should be some improvement. Focus will then turn to the economic situation in Russia. Which is not too good at the moment.

JanC
16-09-2014, 13:01
Why don't diamonds have a greater impact on currency? They are more valuable industrially than gold.

They aren't very rare. And can be made artificially. Gem quality diamonds are expensive in no small part because of market manipulation.

Benedikt
16-09-2014, 14:13
They aren't very rare. And can be made artificially. Gem quality diamonds are expensive in no small part because of market manipulation.



DeBeers , Anglo American and Oppenheimer through their Central Selling organisation buy up everything that might threaten the HIGH price of these junks of carbon. because that is all they are. and they release just enough to keep the price high. No country, not even the ones not in the CSO has an interest to put more diamonds on the market then necessary. the price would drop, the bottom falling out of the market and they would be on par with Svarovsky bijouterie. as simple as that. if they would stop digging and mining for diamonds now, DeBeers has so much in their vaults, it would last for many years to come. though the price would be prohibitive and few could afford them. and what even fewer people know, jewellery diamonds make up only a small part of the output. the much bigger part goes into industry for grinding, drilling bits and the like. that is where they make their money with and these kinds of gems are not in stores and vaults, locked up.
there are plenty of sites on the net where one can read up on that. starting with Cecil B.Rhodes, who dreamed form the Cape to Cairo Railway....

Armoured
16-09-2014, 16:59
Capital controls predicted:

http://top.rbc.ru/economics/16/09/2014/949337.shtml

Uncle Wally
16-09-2014, 18:18
All Russia has to do is tell the EU that if they want to buy Russian gas they need to pay in rubles.

Armoured
16-09-2014, 18:44
All Russia has to do is tell the EU that if they want to buy Russian gas they need to pay in rubles.

You know, sounds like a nice easy answer.

But have you worked through the implications? Do you know how it would work? Would pricing be set in rubles, or just payments? Are you sure it would make things better? Do you have a macro model that explains the implications, and the CBR response? What does it do to inflation?

My answer is that either it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference, or would make Russia worse off - depending on how it was implemented. I don't see any environment where it helps Russia, except one where the current issues aren't happening (and hence the proposal to do it doesn't make any sense).

Uncle Wally
16-09-2014, 19:00
You know, sounds like a nice easy answer.

But have you worked through the implications? Do you know how it would work? Would pricing be set in rubles, or just payments? Are you sure it would make things better? Do you have a macro model that explains the implications, and the CBR response? What does it do to inflation?

My answer is that either it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference, or would make Russia worse off - depending on how it was implemented. I don't see any environment where it helps Russia, except one where the current issues aren't happening (and hence the proposal to do it doesn't make any sense).



It would make them have to buy rubles which would make a bigger demand for rubles so the ruble would go up. Simple huh.


by Paul Craig Roberts


The new sanctions against Russia announced by Washington and Europe do not make sense as merely economic measures. I would be surprised if Russian oil and military industries were dependent on European capital markets in a meaningful way. Such a dependence would indicate a failure in Russian strategic thinking. The Russian companies should be able to secure adequate financing from Russian Banks or from the Russian government. If foreign loans are needed, Russia can borrow from China.

If critical Russian industries are dependent on European capital markets, the sanctions will help Russia by forcing an end to this debilitating dependence. Russia should not be dependent on the West in any way.

The real question is the purpose of the sanctions. My conclusion is that the purpose of the sanctions is to break up and undermine Europe’s economic and political relations with Russia. When international relations are intentionally undermined, war can be the result. Washington will continue to push sanctions against Russia until Russia shows Europe that there is a heavy cost of serving as Washington’s tool.




Russia needs to break up this process of ever more sanctions in order to derail the drive toward war. In my opinion this is easy for Russia to do. Russia can tell Europe that since you do not like our oil companies, you must not like our gas company, so we are turning off the gas. Or Russia can tell Europe, we don’t sell natural gas to NATO members, or Russia can say we will continue to sell you gas, but you must pay in rubles, not in dollars. This would have the additional benefit of increasing the demand for rubles in exchange markets, thus making it harder for speculators and the US government to drive down the ruble.

The real danger to Russia is a continuation of its low-key, moderate response to the sanctions. This is a response that encourages more sanctions. To stop the sanctions, Russia needs to show Europe that the sanctions have serious costs for Europe.

A Russian response to Washington would be to stop selling to the US the Russian rocket engines on which the US satellite program is dependent. This could leave the US without rockets for its satellites for six years between the period 2016 and 2022.

Possibly the Russian government is worried about losing the earnings from gas and rocket engine sales. However, Europe cannot do without the gas and would quickly abandon its participation in the sanctions, so no gas revenues would be lost. The Americans are going to develop their own rocket engine anyhow, so the Russian sales of rocket engines to the US have at most about 6 more years. But the US with an impaired satellite program for six years would mean a great relief to the entire world from the American spy program. It would also make difficult US military aggression against Russia during the period.

Russian President Putin and his government have been very low-key and unprovocative in responding to the sanctions and to the trouble that Washington continues to cause for Russia in Ukraine. The low-key Russian behavior can be understood as a strategy for undermining Washington’s use of Europe against Russia by presenting a non-threatening face to Europe. However, another explanation is the presence inside Russia of a fifth column that represents Washington’s interest and constrains the power of the Russian government.

Strelkov describes the American fifth column here: http://slavyangrad.org/2014/09/12/we-will-not-allow-for-russia-to-be-ripped-asunder-and-ruined/

Saker describes the two power groups inside Russia as the Eurasian Sovereignists who stand behind Putin and an independent Russia and the Atlantic Integrationists, the fifth column that works to incorporate Russia in Europe under US hegemony or, failing that, to help Washington break up the Russian Federation into several weaker countries that are too weak to constrain Washington’s use of power. http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.br/2014/09/strelkov-from-swimming-with-piranhas-to.html

Russia’s Atlantic Integrationists share the Brzezinski and Wolfowitz doctrines with Washington. These doctrines are the basis for US foreign policy. The doctrines define the goal of US foreign policy in terms of preventing the rise of other countries, such as Russia and China, that could limit Washington’s hegemony.

Washington is in a position to exploit the tensions between these two Russian power groups. Washington’s fifth column is not best positioned to prevail. However, Washington can at least count on the struggle causing dissent within the Eurasian Sovereignists over Putin’s low-key response to Western provocations. Some of this dissent can be seen in Strelkov’s defense of Russia and more can be seen here:
http://slavyangrad.org/2014/09/13/the-new-round-of-sanctions-the-pre-war-period/#more-3665

Russia, thinking the Cold War ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union, opened herself to the West. Russian governments trusted the West, and as a result of Russia’s gullibility, the West was able to purchase numerous allies among the Russian elites. Depending on the alignment of the media, these compromised elites are capable of assassinating Putin and attempting a coup.

One would think that by now Putin’s government would recognize the danger and arrest the main elements of the fifth column, followed by trial and execution for treason, in order that Russia can stand united against the Western Threat. If Putin does not take this step, it means either than Putin does not recognize the extent of the threat or that his government lacks the power to protect Russia from the internal threat.

It is clear that Putin has not achieved any respite for his government from the West’s propaganda and economic assault by refusing to defend the Donbass area from Ukrainian attack and by pressuring the Donetsk Republic into a ceasefire when its military forces were on the verge of a major defeat of the disintegrating Ukrainian army. All Putin has achieved is to open himself to criticism among his supporters for betraying the Russians in eastern and southern Ukraine.

The European politicians and elites are so deeply in Washington’s pocket that Putin has little chance of courting Europe with a Russian show of good will. I have never believed that this strategy could work, although I would be pleased if it did. Only a direct threat todeprive Europe of energy has a chance of producing within Europe a foreign policy independent of Washington. I do not think Europe can survive a cutoff of the Russian natural gas. Europe would abandon sanctions in order to guarantee the flow of gas. If Washington’s hold on Europe is so powerful that Europe is willing to endure a major disruption of its energy supply as the price of its vassalage, Russia will know to cease its futile attempts at diplomacy and to prepare for war.

If China sits on the sidelines, China will be the next isolated target and will receive the same treatment.

Washington intends to defeat both countries, either through internal dissent or through war.

Nothing said by Obama or any member of his government or any influential voice in Congress has signaled any pullback in Washington’s drive for hegemony over the world.

The US economy is now dependent on looting and plunder, and Washington’s hegemony is essential to this corrupted form of capitalism.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following. His latest book, The Failure of Laissez Faire Capitalism and Economic Dissolution of the West is now available.

Armoured
16-09-2014, 19:12
It would make them have to buy rubles which would make a bigger demand for rubles so the ruble would go up. Simple huh.

Wow, it's so simple! Like free lunch!

if so simple, why hasn't it been done yet?

The answer is there's so many more stages and impacts that it doesn't work. Sounds like a solution but isn't really.

Suuryaa
16-09-2014, 19:29
by Paul Craig Roberts


The new sanctions against Russia announced by Washington and Europe do not make sense as merely economic measures. I would be surprised if Russian oil and military industries were dependent on European capital markets in a meaningful way. Such a dependence would indicate a failure in Russian strategic thinking. The Russian companies should be able to secure adequate financing from Russian Banks or from the Russian government. If foreign loans are needed, Russia can borrow from China.

If critical Russian industries are dependent on European capital markets, the sanctions will help Russia by forcing an end to this debilitating dependence. Russia should not be dependent on the West in any way.

The real question is the purpose of the sanctions. My conclusion is that the purpose of the sanctions is to break up and undermine Europe’s economic and political relations with Russia. When international relations are intentionally undermined, war can be the result. Washington will continue to push sanctions against Russia until Russia shows Europe that there is a heavy cost of serving as Washington’s tool.




Russia needs to break up this process of ever more sanctions in order to derail the drive toward war. In my opinion this is easy for Russia to do. Russia can tell Europe that since you do not like our oil companies, you must not like our gas company, so we are turning off the gas. Or Russia can tell Europe, we don’t sell natural gas to NATO members, or Russia can say we will continue to sell you gas, but you must pay in rubles, not in dollars. This would have the additional benefit of increasing the demand for rubles in exchange markets, thus making it harder for speculators and the US government to drive down the ruble.

The real danger to Russia is a continuation of its low-key, moderate response to the sanctions. This is a response that encourages more sanctions. To stop the sanctions, Russia needs to show Europe that the sanctions have serious costs for Europe.

A Russian response to Washington would be to stop selling to the US the Russian rocket engines on which the US satellite program is dependent. This could leave the US without rockets for its satellites for six years between the period 2016 and 2022.

Possibly the Russian government is worried about losing the earnings from gas and rocket engine sales. However, Europe cannot do without the gas and would quickly abandon its participation in the sanctions, so no gas revenues would be lost. The Americans are going to develop their own rocket engine anyhow, so the Russian sales of rocket engines to the US have at most about 6 more years. But the US with an impaired satellite program for six years would mean a great relief to the entire world from the American spy program. It would also make difficult US military aggression against Russia during the period.

Russian President Putin and his government have been very low-key and unprovocative in responding to the sanctions and to the trouble that Washington continues to cause for Russia in Ukraine. The low-key Russian behavior can be understood as a strategy for undermining Washington’s use of Europe against Russia by presenting a non-threatening face to Europe. However, another explanation is the presence inside Russia of a fifth column that represents Washington’s interest and constrains the power of the Russian government.

Strelkov describes the American fifth column here: http://slavyangrad.org/2014/09/12/we-will-not-allow-for-russia-to-be-ripped-asunder-and-ruined/

Saker describes the two power groups inside Russia as the Eurasian Sovereignists who stand behind Putin and an independent Russia and the Atlantic Integrationists, the fifth column that works to incorporate Russia in Europe under US hegemony or, failing that, to help Washington break up the Russian Federation into several weaker countries that are too weak to constrain Washington’s use of power. http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.br/2014/09/strelkov-from-swimming-with-piranhas-to.html

Russia’s Atlantic Integrationists share the Brzezinski and Wolfowitz doctrines with Washington. These doctrines are the basis for US foreign policy. The doctrines define the goal of US foreign policy in terms of preventing the rise of other countries, such as Russia and China, that could limit Washington’s hegemony.

Washington is in a position to exploit the tensions between these two Russian power groups. Washington’s fifth column is not best positioned to prevail. However, Washington can at least count on the struggle causing dissent within the Eurasian Sovereignists over Putin’s low-key response to Western provocations. Some of this dissent can be seen in Strelkov’s defense of Russia and more can be seen here:
http://slavyangrad.org/2014/09/13/the-new-round-of-sanctions-the-pre-war-period/#more-3665

Russia, thinking the Cold War ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union, opened herself to the West. Russian governments trusted the West, and as a result of Russia’s gullibility, the West was able to purchase numerous allies among the Russian elites. Depending on the alignment of the media, these compromised elites are capable of assassinating Putin and attempting a coup.

One would think that by now Putin’s government would recognize the danger and arrest the main elements of the fifth column, followed by trial and execution for treason, in order that Russia can stand united against the Western Threat. If Putin does not take this step, it means either than Putin does not recognize the extent of the threat or that his government lacks the power to protect Russia from the internal threat.

It is clear that Putin has not achieved any respite for his government from the West’s propaganda and economic assault by refusing to defend the Donbass area from Ukrainian attack and by pressuring the Donetsk Republic into a ceasefire when its military forces were on the verge of a major defeat of the disintegrating Ukrainian army. All Putin has achieved is to open himself to criticism among his supporters for betraying the Russians in eastern and southern Ukraine.

The European politicians and elites are so deeply in Washington’s pocket that Putin has little chance of courting Europe with a Russian show of good will. I have never believed that this strategy could work, although I would be pleased if it did. Only a direct threat todeprive Europe of energy has a chance of producing within Europe a foreign policy independent of Washington. I do not think Europe can survive a cutoff of the Russian natural gas. Europe would abandon sanctions in order to guarantee the flow of gas. If Washington’s hold on Europe is so powerful that Europe is willing to endure a major disruption of its energy supply as the price of its vassalage, Russia will know to cease its futile attempts at diplomacy and to prepare for war.

If China sits on the sidelines, China will be the next isolated target and will receive the same treatment.

Washington intends to defeat both countries, either through internal dissent or through war.

Nothing said by Obama or any member of his government or any influential voice in Congress has signaled any pullback in Washington’s drive for hegemony over the world.

The US economy is now dependent on looting and plunder, and Washington’s hegemony is essential to this corrupted form of capitalism.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following. His latest book, The Failure of Laissez Faire Capitalism and Economic Dissolution of the West is now available.

I absolutely agree with Paul. It's good that at least Russian citizens support Putin. Although I don't like him, I'm glad he is not afraid to hold out against the US politicians.

Armoured
16-09-2014, 19:52
by Paul Craig Roberts

There's an internet meme going around right now amongst economists, asking whether this guy wrote the 'stupidest article ever' - and trying to compete to find the stupidest paragraph in the stupidest article.

This is not the best source for economic/monetary advice.

Russian Lad
16-09-2014, 20:02
It's good that at least Russian citizens support Putin. Although I don't like him, I'm glad he is not afraid to hold out against the US politicians.

Don't fool yourself, he is doing so only because he doesn't want to become Yanukovich #2. Yanuk was building a mini-Rissia in Ukraine - a vassal state with a similar kleptocratic model. And this model got swept away in like two months. The Kremlin panicked (and made a lot of irrepairable mistakes in the process, by the way, the mistakes that will have dire consequences for Russia itself, and I think rather soon).
Did you at least read the article? What, you also would like to see the opposition leaders condemned and executed? Make the North Korea out of your country? How mentally retarded is that?

Suuryaa
16-09-2014, 20:44
Don't fool yourself, he is doing so only because he doesn't want to become Yanukovich #2. Yanuk was building a mini-Rissia in Ukraine - a vassal state with a similar kleptocratic model. And this model got swept away in like two months. The Kremlin panicked (and made a lot of irrepairable mistakes in the process, by the way, the mistakes that will have dire consequences for Russia itself, and I think rather soon).
Did you at least read the article? What, you also would like to see the opposition leaders condemned and executed?

There was no mention of "execution".


How mentally retarded is that?

Resorting to insults again.

Russian Lad
16-09-2014, 21:26
One would think that by now Putin’s government would recognize the danger and arrest the main elements of the fifth column, followed by trial and execution for treason, in order that Russia can stand united against the Western Threat. If Putin does not take this step, it means either than Putin does not recognize the extent of the threat or that his government lacks the power to protect Russia from the internal threat.

Right. Read it again. You either don't understand plain English (you seem to understand it, but I am willing to give it the benefit of doubt anyway) or are mentally challenged, like quite many Russians these days. It is not an insult, it is the statement of a fact. Or you have other suggestions as to how I should view such attitudes among quite many of my compatriots who seem to have contracted a mental disease and are unable to put 2 and 2 together?

Suuryaa
16-09-2014, 21:49
Right. Read it again. You either don't understand plain English (you seem to understand it, but I am willing to give it the benefit of doubt anyway) or are mentally challenged, like quite many Russians these days. It is not an insult, it is the statement of a fact. Or you have other suggestions as to how I should view such attitudes among quite many of my compatriots who seem to have contracted a mental disease and are unable to put 2 and 2 together?

I see. There's no point in trying to discuss anything with you because you cannot write without resorting to insults. Even though I agree with many things you write and see that you are quite sharp, your manner of expression is repulsive.

Russian Lad
16-09-2014, 21:59
your manner of expression is repulsive.

Well, we are on a public debate forum here, not in a kindergarten or in a ladies' florist club, you enter the spotlight, expect to take some heat. It is a wild world out there.

TolkoRaz
16-09-2014, 22:09
RusskiLad, For somebody who used to export Russian ladies to the West, and who lives with his mother & grandmother, I would have thought that you would have learnt to respect and treat ladies in a more gentle and humane manner!

And, perhaps as you hate the Rodina so much, and love the West, you should have gone with one of your Russian export brides! :10310:

Judge
16-09-2014, 22:14
RL,keep insults like retarded and mentally challenged for the playground.
Thanks.

quincy
16-09-2014, 22:25
There's an internet meme going around right now amongst economists, asking whether this guy wrote the 'stupidest article ever' - and trying to compete to find the stupidest paragraph in the stupidest article.

This is not the best source for economic/monetary advice.

Do you believe that Washington would not even consider wanting to control energy resources or taking advantage of its power for economic benefit?

TolkoRaz
16-09-2014, 22:35
Do you believe that Washington would not even consider wanting to control energy resources or taking advantage of its power for economic benefit?

Never! Not in a Zillion Zillion years! ;)

Armoured
16-09-2014, 22:45
Do you believe that Washington would not even consider wanting to control energy resources or taking advantage of its power for economic benefit?

Sorry, I wasn't clear - the other article I was referring to was an economics article, not the one above.

My point was simple: on econ, this guy is a total loon, and a consistently wrong total loon. Even if you agree with everything else he says, advice from him on just 'making Europe pay in rubles' is a negative, not a positive.

quincy
16-09-2014, 22:56
Sorry, I wasn't clear - the other article I was referring to was an economics article, not the one above.

My point was simple: on econ, this guy is a total loon, and a consistently wrong total loon. Even if you agree with everything else he says, advice from him on just 'making Europe pay in rubles' is a negative, not a positive.

Moving forward will the US$ give way to a basket of currencies in international trade ?

Russian Lad
16-09-2014, 23:28
RusskiLad, For somebody who used to export Russian ladies to the West, and who lives with his mother & grandmother, I would have thought that you would have learnt to respect and treat ladies in a more gentle and humane manner!

And, perhaps as you hate the Rodina so much, and love the West, you should have gone with one of your Russian export brides!

You have a very vivid imagination if you insist that an owner of a dating site is actually exporting someone somewhere - it is like accusing a dancing club owner of pimping just because people visit his place to dance and to meet each other. Or expat.ru managers of the same - they have a dating section too here (two sections, in fact - Love, Sex&Relationships and Personal Ads).
How about minding your own women and children? Congratulations on the British passport for the child, by the way.
I don't hate the Rodina, I don't like the rat air I am offered to breathe here these days. I hate rats, that's all.

ŠœŠ°ŠŗŠ°Ń€ŠµŠ²Šøч, "ŠœŠ¾Ń стрŠ°Š½Š° сŠ¾ŃˆŠ»Š° с уŠ¼Š°" - YouTube

Judge
17-09-2014, 00:09
Weaker ruble is good for some, for the domestic industry, for the exporters that get paid in $ and euros...Russia's reserves are growing, this will help if any businesses need bailing out... Let the ruble weaken some more ...

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 00:11
Weaker ruble is good for some, for the domestic industry, for the exporters that get paid in $ and euros...Russia's reserves are growing, this will help if any businesses need bailing out... Let the ruble weaken some more ...

laughing compilation - YouTube

Judge
17-09-2014, 00:23
laughing compilation - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLmd0100T9g)

Last time I checked your country was a mainly exporting country, lots of oil and gas sales, the Kremlin coffers are getting filled rather nicely now...Ok travel abroad is expensive now, if you can't afford it then travel inside Russia,lots to explore here, and also some western good will be higher, we will just have to do with Russian products, can't you live without your western travel and western clothes and food for a few months?

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 00:37
we will just have to do with Russian products

That's where the Devil is buried and why those people were laughing. Russian products sounds to me just like American borsch - an oxymoron, in most cases. Even some Russian products that are indeed produced inside Russia require foreign technologies, machinery and equipment, foreign expertise, even foreign raw materials, spareparts, etc.
That's besides what you have already mentioned.


Last time I checked your country was a mainly exporting country

Yes, mainly oil and gas exporting country. The oil prices are falling, have reached the level critical for the budget (96), gas consumption is dropping. Watch that laughter clip again and relax. The show will be brutal I think.

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 00:41
Well, we are on a public debate forum here, not in a kindergarten or in a ladies' florist club, you enter the spotlight, expect to take some heat. It is a wild world out there.

You're the thin-skinned one who is always threatening to sue for Libel or Defamation.

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 00:43
You're the thin-skinned one who is always threatening to sue for Libel or Defamation.

Well, yes, I have skipped the motions this time though, haven't I? I don't really want any of you nice ladies to rot in a wet Russian dungeon for libel. See, I am a real gentleman. :10518::voodoo::10189::bell:

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 00:44
Sorry, I wasn't clear - the other article I was referring to was an economics article, not the one above.

My point was simple: on econ, this guy is a total loon, and a consistently wrong total loon. Even if you agree with everything else he says, advice from him on just 'making Europe pay in rubles' is a negative, not a positive.

Hey it's Russki-Lad Jr. (1) It's one thing to call people names, (2) it's another thing to post logical and meaningful, fact-filled rebuttals. You're excel at (1) you get a Zero on (2). Ask JanC how to get up to speed, in the fast lane, for (2).

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 00:57
You have a very vivid imagination if you insist that an owner of a dating site is actually exporting someone somewhere - it is like accusing a dancing club owner of pimping just because people visit his place to dance and to meet each other.

TK does have a point, and you never heard of the IMBRA laws?

IMBRA is based on the feminists' theory (they would say "truthь") that any American male who brings back an overseas wife is possibly engaging in "human -trafficking." And now it is US law. And if the male gets divorced and then gets another overseas bride, for sure he is engaging in human trafficking.

So, according to American law, you are complicit in this "crime" of "human trafficking." Only Americans can be arrested under IMBRA, however, there is American very liberal interpretation of "extraterritoriality," or, for those of you who living in Yoshkar-Ola, "Our land is our land and your land is also our land."

Of course the same DC bozos who passed IMBRA at 03:00 in the morning so no one would notice the new law until a month later, get wild-eyed and crazy when someone suggests that Americans who adopt Russian children are engaging in "human trafficking."

Judge
17-09-2014, 01:00
That's where the Devil is buried and why those people were laughing. Russian products sounds to me just like American borsch - an oxymoron, in most cases. Even some Russian products that are indeed produced inside Russia require foreign machinery and equipment, foreign expertise, even foreign raw materials, spareparts, etc.
That's besides what you have already mentioned.

Since you spent a whopping 6 months in America, you have now had a taste of the good life and you are used to having great products, them six months made you softer....yYou know, this pass month since Russia banned western food, I've hardly seen a price increase, really haven't , shelves still full with goods,prices reasonably, you like many others hit the panic button too often thinking all is going to collapse.




Yes, mainly oil and gas exporting country. The oil prices are falling, have reached the level critical for the budget (96), gas consumption is dropping. Watch that laughter clip again and relax. The show will be brutal I think.

The price of oil should rise soon,it's fallen for now cos of China slowing down, maybe should rise come winter when gas consumption hits higher levels, even the yanks can't really afford cheap oil prices for too long, was reading a few articles earlier that they also need high prices cos it costs a lot to get shale out of the ground.

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 01:02
IMBRA is based on the feminists' theory (they would say "truthь") that any American male who brings back an overseas wife is possibly engaging in "human -trafficking." And now it is US law. And if the male gets divorced and then gets another overseas bride, for sure he is engaging in human trafficking.

So, according to American law, you are complicit in this "crime" of "human trafficking." Only Americans can be arrested under IMBRA, however, there is American very liberal interpretation of "extraterritoriality," or, for those of you who living in Yoshkar-Ola, "Our land is our land and your land is also our land."


I think you have heard the word but haven't really bothered to learn what it means - I mean IMBRA. Am not going to waste my time on explaining the basics to you. First - you understand it wrong, second - it isn't really working, third - the dating sites that really care about IMBRA have instituted very simple provisions to meet IMBRA (stupid and hence not working anyway) demands. Most well-established dating sites I know (99% of them) don't care about IMBRA and don't even bother wasting their time on that. Some that do waste even a page on that put up something along those lines (1-2-3 closer to the end there, but you need to really know IMBRA to know what they really mean and why they wrote exactly that):
https://www.hotrussianbrides.com/IMBRA.aspx

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 01:13
Since you spent a whopping 6 months in America, you have now had a taste of the good life and you are used to having great products, them six months made you softer....yYou know, this pass month since Russia banned western food, I've hardly seen a price increase, really haven't , shelves still full with goods,prices reasonably, you like many others hit the panic button too often thinking all is going to collapse.

Ok, all is going just fine, enjoy it. I don't insist on anything.

FatAndy
17-09-2014, 02:04
Ouch!
http://vz.ru/news/2014/9/16/705976.html

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 02:11
Ouch!
http://vz.ru/news/2014/9/16/705976.html

It has been rather boring without an oil oligarch behind bars, hasn't it? :celebrate:

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 02:18
Most well-established dating sites I know (99% of them) don't care about IMBRA and don't even bother wasting their time on that. Some that do waste even a page on that put up something along those lines (1-2-3 closer to the end there, but you need to really know IMBRA to know what they really mean and why they wrote exactly that):
https://www.hotrussianbrides.com/IMBRA.aspx

Hope that's not your website - it screams "SCAM!"

After using a machete to get through your verbal thickets of arrogant condescension (I think I know a lot more about IMBRA than you ever will, because you didn't cite a single factoid ) to get through to the point, which is, IMBRA has a penalty of 5 years in jail and $25000 civil penalty for each incomplete or non-filed document. Whether or not it is enforced does not make it legal to ignore it, you could be the one that they target for enforcement.

This is another case of an American law, such as IRS laws and Campaign Contribution laws, which can be and are selectively enforced, only used to punish one's political or personal opponents. And yes, the US government really does have an aggressive policy regarding extraterritoriality.

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 02:25
YouTube - Laughing

Hillary-Clinton-laughing-awkwardly-with-reporters (http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/the-comprehensive-supercut-of-hillary-clinton-laughing-awkwardly-with-reporters-20140627)

The next president?

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 02:31
After using a machete to get through your verbal thickets of arrogant condescension (I think I know a lot more about IMBRA than you ever will, because you didn't cite a single factoid ) to get through to the point, which is, IMBRA has a penalty of 5 years in jail and $25000 civil penalty for each incomplete or non-filed document. Whether or not it is enforced does not make it legal to ignore it, you could be the one that they target for enforcement.

Cite me a single case of IMBRA application against a dating site owner/manager. No one has died from an asteroid attack this year, but it doesn't mean that you should leave the safety of your home without a hard hat on, for this reason - just following your logic... Other than that, I repeat - the risk is so minimal it can be neglected at this point. And there are specific safeguards to use on a site if you are a very easily scared type (I am not).
And no, that wasn't my site - it may be on the scam side, I agree - just like over 90% of other Russian dating sites. That's one of the reasons why I am going to delve into this niche - it is still almost virgin - as far as scam-free and meaningful services go.:)

FatAndy
17-09-2014, 03:13
It has been rather boring without an oil oligarch behind bars, hasn't it? :celebrate:
Hodor has reacted already. http://top.rbc.ru/politics/17/09/2014/949465.shtml

Evtushenkov isn't oil oligarch, search for AFK Sistema.

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 03:24
Hodor has reacted already. http://top.rbc.ru/politics/17/09/2014/949465.shtml

Evtushenkov isn't oil oligarch, search for AFK Sistema.

Well, looks like it will only do further damage to the already wobbling economy. So far, so good. Why is the Kremlin hesitant on the reciprocal sanctions to the West? I liked the previous one, the food ban, and was hoping for a similar f'ck up as far as cars and plane routes go. A slight disappointment in this area. Maybe they will catch up? I would like to see Euro hit 100.00 mark - this way many banks will need to change their electronic displays above the obmenniki - to make space for one more zero.:) I promised one of my friends this day will come at a local obmennik in our ghetto where we live.

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 07:08
Well, looks like it will only do further damage to the already wobbling economy. So far, so good. Why is the Kremlin hesitant on the reciprocal sanctions to the West? I liked the previous one, the food ban, and was hoping for a similar f'ck up as far as cars and plane routes go. A slight disappointment in this area. Maybe they will catch up? I would like to see Euro hit 100.00 mark - this way many banks will need to change their electronic displays above the obmenniki - to make space for one more zero.:) I promised one of my friends this day will come at a local obmennik in our ghetto where we live.

And when you have overthrown the Kremlin government and the Caliphate is marching down your street, chopping off heads, you will say...?

Russian Lad
17-09-2014, 15:34
And when you have overthrown the Kremlin government and the Caliphate is marching down your street, chopping off heads, you will say...?

You whom?:) I am just a casual observer, I am not overthrowing anything. As to the Caliphate, isn't your dear leader taking care of it?

Š—Š°Š³Ń€Š°Š½ŠøцŠ° Š½Š°Š¼ ŠæŠ¾Š¼Š¾Š¶ŠµŃ‚.avi - YouTube

fenrir
17-09-2014, 16:46
[QUOTE=Armoured;1351322]Do you have a macro model that explains the implications, and the CBR response?[QUOTE]

No, he doesn't but I bet he has a YouTube video or two!

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 17:03
You whom?:) I am just a casual observer, I am not overthrowing anything. As to the Caliphate, isn't your dear leader taking care of it?

To the Caliphate you are not a "casual observer," you are an infidel.

During WW2, US and USSR combined forces to defeat a greater enemy. You seem to ignore the enemy. You see the enemy as a mouse (the Kremlin), and are blind to the elephant (worldwide Islamo-fascism) in the room.

Dear Leader Barack Hussein has "taken care" of the Caliphate by abandoning Iraq and leaving the Caliphate with boatloads of modern weapons - tanks, bombs, artillery - which they now use to continue their jihad, and he has announced that "someone else" should send troops there, not the US. So far, no takers to jump into the meat-grinder.

Armoured
17-09-2014, 17:27
During WW2, US and USSR combined forces to defeat a greater enemy.

Similarly, perhaps the USSR would have suffered less if it had been less focussed on occupying territories and partitioning neighbouring states, and instead concentrated on the greater threat.

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 18:28
Similarly, perhaps the USSR would have suffered less if it had been less focussed on occupying territories and partitioning neighbouring states, and instead concentrated on the greater threat.

Similarly, perhaps the USSA would have suffered less if it had been less focused on having NATO occupy FSU territories and causing mini-wars in areas like Donbass and Georgia, and instead concentrated on the greater threat.

Uncle Wally
17-09-2014, 19:48
Sorry, I wasn't clear - the other article I was referring to was an economics article, not the one above.

My point was simple: on econ, this guy is a total loon, and a consistently wrong total loon. Even if you agree with everything else he says, advice from him on just 'making Europe pay in rubles' is a negative, not a positive.



Here's his creds, where is yours?


Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following. His latest book, The Failure of Laissez Faire Capitalism and Economic Dissolution of the West is now available.


Why would it be a "negative" for Russia and others to use the ruble when doing buiness? Why should anybody be bullied into using dollars?

Nobbynumbnuts
17-09-2014, 19:56
.......Why would it be a "negative" for Russia and others to use the ruble when doing buiness? Why should anybody be bullied into using dollars?

Why should others be bullied into using rubles? It's far safer for foreign companies to use dollars.

Armoured
17-09-2014, 20:20
Here's his creds, where is yours?

I'm just a guy on the internet - on purpose.

Sources for the comment 'stupidest article ever':
http://econbrowser.com/archives/2014/09/the-stupidest-paragraph-in-perhaps-the-stupidest-article-ever-written (Menzie Chinn)

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/09/stupidest-article-ever-published.html (Mark Thoma)

I can't confirm but seems Bruce Bartlett pretty much agrees.

Anyway, believe what you want, but Roberts' throw-away comment 'price it in rubles and everything gets better' is just too simplistic.

Uncle Wally
17-09-2014, 20:38
Why should others be bullied into using rubles? It's far safer for foreign companies to use dollars.



Why so they won't have to feel the wrath of the US of A?

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 20:43
I'm just a guy on the internet - on purpose.

Sources for the comment 'stupidest article ever':
http://econbrowser.com/archives/2014/09/the-stupidest-paragraph-in-perhaps-the-stupidest-article-ever-written (Menzie Chinn)


Obfuscatory article written by "professors" paid to indoctrinate at the Univ. of Wisconsin in Madison, and Univ. of California in San Diego - two of the most extreme, "Progressive" loony Left-wing campi in the world.


http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/09/stupidest-article-ever-published.html (Mark Thoma)


This one just points to the first one. Sorry, a URL pointer to another web-site doesn't count as a "supporting reference".

Nobbynumbnuts
17-09-2014, 20:45
Why so they won't have to feel the wrath of the US of A?

You're lighting up early today....;)

Uncle Wally
17-09-2014, 20:46
I'm just a guy on the internet - on purpose.

Sources for the comment 'stupidest article ever':
http://econbrowser.com/archives/2014/09/the-stupidest-paragraph-in-perhaps-the-stupidest-article-ever-written (Menzie Chinn)

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/09/stupidest-article-ever-published.html (Mark Thoma)

I can't confirm but seems Bruce Bartlett pretty much agrees.

Anyway, believe what you want, but Roberts' throw-away comment 'price it in rubles and everything gets better' is just too simplistic.



This is so bad? You like debt? America can just keep racking up debt and never pay up? Gee can I do that too?

"To understand how risky the rise of debt is, nominal debt must be compared to real GDP. Spin masters might dismiss this computation as comparing apples to oranges, but such a charge constitutes denial that the ratio of nominal debt to nominal GDP understates the wealth dilution caused by the government’s ability to issue and repay debt in nominal dollars." …



"Throw away comment"? Nothing of the kind, he states that if Russia makes the EU pay in rubles it will push up demand and take some of the pressure of the ruble. Makes sense to me.

Uncle Wally
17-09-2014, 20:49
You're lighting up early today....;)




And they call me a troll. You ain't got nothing else?


Do I need to point out that the last two guys that tried to sell their coutries oil for something other than dollars died?

Armoured
17-09-2014, 21:01
This is so bad? You like debt? America can just keep racking up debt and never pay up? Gee can I do that too?

"To understand how risky the rise of debt is, nominal debt must be compared to real GDP. Spin masters might dismiss this computation as comparing apples to oranges, but such a charge constitutes denial that the ratio of nominal debt to nominal GDP understates the wealth dilution caused by the government’s ability to issue and repay debt in nominal dollars." …

Well, if you can tell me what that means, please do. It is apples to oranges. The 'this constitutes denial' phrase is so weird I can't begin to understand.

Fantastika
17-09-2014, 21:44
"...but such a charge constitutes denial that the ratio of nominal debt to nominal GDP understates the wealth dilution caused by the government’s ability to issue and repay debt in nominal dollars." …


Well, if you can tell me what that means, please do. ... The 'this constitutes denial' phrase is so weird I can't begin to understand.

I'll have to agree with you on that. I'm sure at least one person understands it - the guy that wrote it. Or maybe he just thinks he understands it.

I think I need an Excedrin...

fenrir
17-09-2014, 22:29
Similarly, perhaps the USSA would have suffered less if it had been less focused on having NATO occupy FSU territories and causing mini-wars in areas like Donbass and Georgia, and instead concentrated on the greater threat.

Which former FSU territories has NATO 'occupied?'

Nobbynumbnuts
17-09-2014, 23:12
And they call me a troll. You ain't got nothing else?


Do I need to point out that the last two guys that tried to sell their coutries oil for something other than dollars died?

I was expecting a little more intelligence.


If Russia demands Rubles for it's oil and gas (if it were feasible) would be no better than the USA, according to you.

Uncle Wally
17-09-2014, 23:33
I was expecting a little more intelligence.


If Russia demands Rubles for it's oil and gas (if it were feasible) would be no better than the USA, according to you.

You really don't get it do you?

If you buy oil from Russia why not pay in rubles? Why does trade between the EU and Russia need to be in dollars? it don't make sense unless you are American it's just most of the world are not.

Armoured
17-09-2014, 23:56
If you buy oil from Russia why not pay in rubles? Why does trade between the EU and Russia need to be in dollars? it don't make sense unless you are American it's just most of the world are not.

Sure. Whatever. Bananas. Timber. Myrrh. Euros. That's all fine.

The only mistake is thinking that selling to people for rubles is going to fix anything.

Russia already has rubles. In fact, it has a central bank - it can make as many rubles as it wants.

Why would it want more? If it gets dollars, it can sell them in future. If it gets more rubles, all it can do is sell it to people who want more oil. It doesn't get Russia _off_ the oil cycle at all.

Uncle Wally
18-09-2014, 00:02
Sure. Whatever. Bananas. Timber. Myrrh. Euros. That's all fine.

The only mistake is thinking that selling to people for rubles is going to fix anything.

Russia already has rubles. In fact, it has a central bank - it can make as many rubles as it wants.

Why would it want more? If it gets dollars, it can sell them in future. If it gets more rubles, all it can do is sell it to people who want more oil. It doesn't get Russia _off_ the oil cycle at all.


Wow you ain't got a clue do you? I'll let you in on a little secret, it's to make "them" want rubles too. Got it?


Oh!

That's without pointing a gun at them and threats like the nice people who gave us the dollar.

Nobbynumbnuts
18-09-2014, 00:24
Wow you ain't got a clue do you? I'll let you in on a little secret, it's to make "them" want rubles too. Got it?


Oh!

That's without pointing a gun at them and threats like the nice people who gave us the dollar.

Wally, your ranting and raving, time to take your medicine again....;)

Uncle Wally
18-09-2014, 00:34
Wally, your ranting and raving, time to take your medicine again....;)


Oh come on. You can do better than insults no?

quincy
18-09-2014, 02:02
Sure. Whatever. Bananas. Timber. Myrrh. Euros. That's all fine.

The only mistake is thinking that selling to people for rubles is going to fix anything.

Russia already has rubles. In fact, it has a central bank - it can make as many rubles as it wants.

Why would it want more? If it gets dollars, it can sell them in future. If it gets more rubles, all it can do is sell it to people who want more oil. It doesn't get Russia _off_ the oil cycle at all.
The argument is that if there is an international demand for the RUB (as there is for the $, EUR, Yen) RUB's value would rise - foreign countries and their banks would keep RUB accounts

Fantastika
18-09-2014, 02:31
Which former FSU territories has NATO 'occupied?'

Your own, for one.

C'mon, give me a hard question.

Fantastika
18-09-2014, 02:33
This is so bad? You like debt? America can just keep racking up debt and never pay up? Gee can I do that too?

"To understand how risky the rise of debt is, nominal debt must be compared to real GDP. Spin masters might dismiss this computation as comparing apples to oranges, but such a charge constitutes denial that the ratio of nominal debt to nominal GDP understates the wealth dilution caused by the government’s ability to issue and repay debt in nominal dollars." …


I might be able to wrap myself around the meaning of that serpentine sentence if I knew what the writer means by "wealth dilution."

Armoured
18-09-2014, 04:02
I might be able to wrap myself around the meaning of that serpentine sentence if I knew what the writer means by "wealth dilution."

With these guys, the problem and answer are always the same (regardless of the question): inflation and gold.

Fantastika
18-09-2014, 10:32
Similarly, perhaps the USSR would have suffered less if it had been less focussed on occupying territories and partitioning neighbouring states, and instead concentrated on the greater threat.

So you support the Islamo-fascists? Russia deserves the terrorists, killing children in Beslan, for example? It's all the fault of the Russians? The Mecca-inspired terrorists wouldn't kill anyone in Russia (and 83 other countries), if...what?

Armoured
18-09-2014, 11:22
So you support the Islamo-fascists? Russia deserves the terrorists, killing children in Beslan, for example? It's all the fault of the Russians? The Mecca-inspired terrorists wouldn't kill anyone in Russia (and 83 other countries), if...what?

I said nothing of the sort, nor implied anything of the sort.

The world would be better off if resources (in Russia's case, diplomatic and military) were not focussed on Ukraine and Crimea.

Assign blame where you like - I was pointing out an undeniable fact that the USSR chose to focus on partitioning territory in WWII and signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact ("Treaty of Non-Aggression"). And incorporated territories into the USSR.

You can feel free to call NATO expansion 'occupation' but no NATO country has annexed / incorporated the territory of another country. Russia has.

Uncle Wally
18-09-2014, 12:04
I said nothing of the sort, nor implied anything of the sort.

The world would be better off if resources (in Russia's case, diplomatic and military) were not focussed on Ukraine and Crimea.

Assign blame where you like - I was pointing out an undeniable fact that the USSR chose to focus on partitioning territory in WWII and signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact ("Treaty of Non-Aggression"). And incorporated territories into the USSR.

You can feel free to call NATO expansion 'occupation' but no NATO country has annexed / incorporated the territory of another country. Russia has.


And US banks focussed on financing the nazi war machine where a Bush was directly envolved. They should have hung him for treason. I won't even get into how the US stayed out Europe until Russia started to win then went to grab what they could and now look what we have, fasist running America trying to bully everyone and making wars and stealing whatever they can.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar


As for Ukraine, Russia should be very focussed there because we know America is and it is a direct attack on Russia. Maybe Russia should put some nukes in Cuba?

Uncle Wally
18-09-2014, 12:17
I might be able to wrap myself around the meaning of that serpentine sentence if I knew what the writer means by "wealth dilution."


Intrest on your savings is at 6%

Inflation is 11%

=5% wealth dilution

Uncle Wally
18-09-2014, 12:21
Well, if you can tell me what that means, please do. It is apples to oranges. The 'this constitutes denial' phrase is so weird I can't begin to understand.


When you are in "denial" it would be hard to understand.

Wake up and smell the pyramid scheme that is the FED

quincy
18-09-2014, 12:37
You can feel free to call NATO expansion 'occupation' but no NATO country has annexed / incorporated the territory of another country. Russia has.

Inconvenient facts not usually in the 'free' media...
If NATO membership was put to a referendum, we don't know if Latvia with its large Russian minority would have joined, the same can be said of some others

NATO bombed Yugoslavia in violation of international law and in effect seized control of Kosovo

NATO member Turkey is in occupation of Northern Cyprus for 40 years in violation of many UN resolutions. The EU has responded by opening EU membership talks with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxPpNqfXtj0

fenrir
18-09-2014, 12:52
Your own, for one.

C'mon, give me a hard question.

What is occupation and how does it relate to Estonia/NATO?

fenrir
18-09-2014, 12:58
And US banks focussed on financing the nazi war machine where a Bush was directly envolved. They should have hung him for treason. I won't even get into how the US stayed out Europe until Russia started to win then went to grab what they could and now look what we have, fasist running America trying to bully everyone and making wars and stealing whatever they can.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar


As for Ukraine, Russia should be very focussed there because we know America is and it is a direct attack on Russia. Maybe Russia should put some nukes in Cuba?

First, we were occupied with that little thing called the Japanese Empire. Then there was the logistical nightmare of transporting an army and all of its supplies across the Atlantic. Finally, how sorry were we supposed to feel for the Soviet Union getting attacked by its own ALLY?

Regarding the Nazi war machine, look at what the USSR did to help it before 22 June 1941. Stalin should have been hanged too.

Uncle Wally
18-09-2014, 13:40
First, we were occupied with that little thing called the Japanese Empire. Then there was the logistical nightmare of transporting an army and all of its supplies across the Atlantic. Finally, how sorry were we supposed to feel for the Soviet Union getting attacked by its own ALLY?

Regarding the Nazi war machine, look at what the USSR did to help it before 22 June 1941. Stalin should have been hanged too.


You make me giggle.

penka
18-09-2014, 17:03
What is occupation and how does it relate to Estonia/NATO?

Please, remind me, who Estonia has been occupied by and when it gained its independency.

As an ethnic Russian-German with a Swedish citizenship, I would love to hear the answer.

FatAndy
18-09-2014, 21:39
Please, remind me, who Estonia has been occupied by and when it gained its independency.

As an ethnic Russian-German with a Swedish citizenship, I would love to hear the answer.
Kolyvan'!
:)

Nobbynumbnuts
18-09-2014, 21:43
You make me giggle.

That's all you got?? :D

Armoured
18-09-2014, 21:45
Please, remind me, who Estonia has been occupied by and when it gained its independency.

To limit to modern times - independence in the aftermath of revolution/civil war - like Finland. Occupied by USSR (Molotov-Ribbentrop pact), then Nazis during WWII, then Nazis beaten back by Soviet troops. Remained in USSR until 1991, when it regained independence.

Estonia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

penka
18-09-2014, 22:20
Intrest on your savings is at 6%

Inflation is 11%

=5% wealth dilution

Which country are you talking about?

penka
18-09-2014, 22:22
To limit to modern times - independence in the aftermath of revolution/civil war - like Finland. Occupied by USSR (Molotov-Ribbentrop pact), then Nazis during WWII, then Nazis beaten back by Soviet troops. Remained in USSR until 1991, when it regained independence.

Estonia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia)

Any records before 1918?;)

fenrir
18-09-2014, 22:54
Any records before 1918?;)

What's your point? Your question was answered.

Russian Lad
18-09-2014, 23:13
What's your point? Your question was answered.

Get used to it, Fenrir. Even Dostoevsky wrote "life in relative stability and wealth brings up the ugliest, most inhumane and barbaric traits in Russians". I am amazed myself, the guy knew what he was writing about. Trying to talk common sense to most of them is just like trying to reason with a brick wall these days. I guess it is a mental disease of sorts, most likely a fault in the genes. Whatever it is, it should be studied at special institutions later on.

Armoured
18-09-2014, 23:18
Any records before 1918?;)

Follow the link.

Uncle Wally
19-09-2014, 19:03
Get used to it, Fenrir. Even Dostoevsky wrote "life in relative stability and wealth brings up the ugliest, most inhumane and barbaric traits in Russians". I am amazed myself, the guy knew what he was writing about. Trying to talk common sense to most of them is just like trying to reason with a brick wall these days. I guess it is a mental disease of sorts, most likely a fault in the genes. Whatever it is, it should be studied at special institutions later on.




I wonder how you're going take it when you finnally understand you were so wrong. Russia is not the one trying to start WWIII

vossy7
19-09-2014, 19:18
I wonder how you're going take it when you finnally understand you were so wrong. Russia is not the one trying to start WWIII

Wally, WWIII could have started on the streets of Glasgow yesterday with men in kilts and Sgian Dubhs ........it did'nt and it's not going to happen :tgif:

TolkoRaz
19-09-2014, 20:52
Wally, WWIII could have started on the streets of Glasgow yesterday with men in kilts and Sgian Dubhs ........it did'nt and it's not going to happen :tgif:

If it does not rain, it might happen this weekend? ;)

penka
19-09-2014, 21:29
If it does not rain, it might happen this weekend? ;)

The Pope is of an opinion, it is already raining.

vossy7
19-09-2014, 21:40
The Pope is of an opinion, it is already raining.

Penka , really.... what do you know about the reign of Papa Francisco ?:11158:

TolkoRaz
19-09-2014, 22:30
The Pope is of an opinion, it is already raining.

Raining what? Cats & Dogs? :smurf:

Or, choir boys? ;)

TolkoRaz
19-09-2014, 22:37
May be its raining men?

Geri Halliwell - It's Raining Men - YouTube

penka
19-09-2014, 22:43
Well, witted people, haven' you read the Pope said the WWIII has already started?

TolkoRaz
19-09-2014, 23:21
Well, witted people, haven' you read the Pope said the WWIII has already started?

Really? I thought he was connected to God! :eek:

Clearly, he is wrong because we are all still alive! :)

Russian Lad
19-09-2014, 23:32
I wonder how you're going take it when you finnally understand you were so wrong.

The facts tell me I am right - I was actually on your side half a year ago, before I sensed I was being lied to. Those here who give a blind eye to these facts (I have given many of them and not going to repeat myself) are either financially interested in what is going on/believe they can benefit from it some time in the future or are slow thinkers/lacking sufficient education, to put it in a PC form.
From Russia with hate to Penka:
http://news.mail.ru/politics/19584574/?frommail=1

vossy7
19-09-2014, 23:56
The facts tell me I am right - I was actually on your side half a year ago, before I sensed I was being lied to. Those here who give a blind eye to these facts (I have given many of them and not going to repeat myself) are either financially interested in what is going on/believe they can benefit from it some time in the future or are slow thinkers/lacking sufficient education, to put it in a PC form.
From Russia with hate to Penka:
http://news.mail.ru/politics/19584574/?frommail=1

RL....you really have to start making babies as I believe you would make a great dad ......I wish my dad had been so radical but he just kept falling of his bike ........Guinness and whiskey does that to you :11157:

Russian Lad
19-09-2014, 23:57
RL....you really have to start making babies as I believe you would make a great dad .....

I am still practicing how to reason with kids, as you can see. :11158:

vossy7
20-09-2014, 00:03
I am still practicing how to reason with kids, as you can see. :11158:
Why do I get the feeling that you really want to say diks!

zzhhst
20-09-2014, 07:34
Probably go to 42.5$ by next year. If the U.S. decides to change legislation and start exporting crude to world markets your going to see 48 rubs to the dollar. They are literately burning propane in the states. Shale sand. Railroads cant transport it all. Check out any major railroad stock in the U.S. Anyone that thinks North America dose not have the resources to tank the price of crude better start to educate themselves. The ultimate sanction. Far severe then S.W.I.F.T. or B.I.C.

Uncle Wally
22-09-2014, 00:45
Which country are you talking about?


Anyone with a privite banking system

fenrir
27-09-2014, 18:45
The ruble hit a new low this week and is the second worst performing currency in the world except for Argentina's. Good job Putin! I wonder if the Chinese will still want to price anything in rubles now that the currency is taking a dump pretty much every day.

FatAndy
27-09-2014, 19:16
The ruble hit a new low this week and is the second worst performing currency in the world except for Argentina's. Good job Putin! I wonder if the Chinese will still want to price anything in rubles now that the currency is taking a dump pretty much every day.
Don't hesitate to jump up, comrade. :)

Will see who will be laughing last ;)

Carl
27-09-2014, 19:18
The ruble hit a new low this week and is the second worst performing currency in the world except for Argentina's. Good job Putin! I wonder if the Chinese will still want to price anything in rubles now that the currency is taking a dump pretty much every day.

Did Willy buy rubles yet..or his waiting for 40?

Carl
27-09-2014, 19:21
Don't hesitate to jump up, comrade. :)

Will see who will be laughing last ;)

Can we put a time frame on that? Or shall we consider it for eternity? I mean the laughing last part...

Judge
27-09-2014, 19:25
Don't hesitate to jump up, comrade. :)

Will see who will be laughing last ;)

Andy, It's time to panic, the ruble is crashing!!!!!Good to see our pro-Russian posters turning up when Russia is doing so well..

It's funny in a way, Fenrir and Carl don't even live in Russia but care so much about the ruble...
All I can say guys, is my rubles are going as far as they did last week,month,year.....

Carl
27-09-2014, 19:40
Andy, It's time to panic, the ruble is crashing!!!!!Good to see our pro-Russian posters turning up when Russia is doing so well..

It's funny in a way, Fenrir and Carl don't even live in Russia but care so much about the ruble...
All I can say guys, is my rubles are going as far as they did last week,month,year.....

Sorry to burst your bubble Judge.. But your 100 ruble notes DO NOT have the same buying power today as they did a year. Ago. But keep telling yourself that tho..I'm sure it makes it easier on the mind.:10241:
And as far as caring is concerned..a segnificant amount of my life IS IN Russia.

JanC
27-09-2014, 20:18
your 100 ruble notes DO NOT have the same buying power today as they did a year

Neither do 100 EUR or 100 USD notes, to be fair. Although the 1-2% inflation seen there is pretty far from the >7.5% the RCB is now forecasting.

The rouble tanking does indicate a loss of confidence (which was already pretty low to begin with) both abroad and within Russia. In the short term I think the exchange rate is not causing too many issues for Russia, but it would be foolish to think that, long-term, Russia could be as prosperous on its own (plus the BRICS) as it would/has been trading extensively with the West.

Judge
27-09-2014, 20:39
[QUOTE=Carl;1355479]Sorry to burst your bubble Judge.. But your 100 ruble notes DO NOT have the same buying power today as they did a year. Ago. But keep telling yourself that tho..
It's the same, the 100ru, buys the same milk and eggs,no real change in price...
Even with the sanctions on western food,many said there will be a price hike, so far, nothing much, few rubles here and there,but nothing to really rock the boat....Cheaper ruble will make Russian products more attractive to buy,I'm sure many here will easily get by,OK, one or two might miss their smelly cheese or what not,but the rest don't really care...





I'm sure it makes it easier on the mind.:10241:
We have others things in life to help the mind.


And as far as caring is concerned..a segnificant amount of my life IS IN Russia.
I know, I'm just pulling your chain.....

fenrir
27-09-2014, 23:39
[quote]
It's the same, the 100ru, buys the same milk and eggs,no real change in price...
Even with the sanctions on western food,many said there will be a price hike, so far, nothing much, few rubles here and there,but nothing to really rock the boat....Cheaper ruble will make Russian products more attractive to buy,I'm sure many here will easily get by,OK, one or two might miss their smelly cheese or what not,but the rest don't really care...




We have others things in life to help the mind.


I know, I'm just pulling your chain.....

Even Medvedev admitted last month price rises were more than expected but keep fooling youself if you wish. To add to the misery inflation in Russia is higher than most of Europe and buying dollars/euros to go on holiday is getting more and more expensive.

Uncle Wally
27-09-2014, 23:56
[quote=Judge;1355502]

Even Medvedev admitted last month price rises were more than expected but keep fooling youself if you wish. To add to the misery inflation in Russia is higher than most of Europe and buying dollars/euros to go on holiday is getting more and more expensive.


And that it turn will hurt EU/US because less people will be going to and spending less.

As for basic food stuffs there is not and will not be a very big increase in prices anytime soon.

Fantastika
28-09-2014, 02:07
Sorry to burst your bubble Judge.. But your 100 ruble notes DO NOT have the same buying power today as they did a year. Ago. But keep telling yourself that tho..I'm sure it makes it easier on the mind.:10241:
And as far as caring is concerned..a segnificant amount of my life IS IN Russia.

Obama is diddling with the inflation figures, as he is doing with the unemployment figures...

The Inflation index is calculated from the "Core Consumer Price Index," which does not include food and does not include gasoline. Nor the cost of energy.

Consider that the price of gas in the US was $1.80/gallon on O's first day in office in 2008. Recently it was $3.50/gallon. Not only are you paying twice as much for gas (and every American has at least 1 car) but you are paying for the cost to transport everything to the local clothing, department or specialty store, and food to the local market (98% of the food in the supermarket comes via truck from California, Florida, port cities, etc.).

These costs are not calculated in the "inflation index" - and so the government can grant "cost-of-living" increase in pension and social security checks at 1% when actually the real inflation rate may be 10%.

Also the cost of energy is not considered - Obama is on a campaign to close down coal and oil-fired power plants and substitute expensive "green energy" - this sends your monthly electricity bill skyrocketing, but again it is not considered part of the inflation index. So the electricity bill goes from $35/month to $90/month and this is one of the cheapest states in the US. However, they are talking about shutting down the Wolf Creek Nuclear Power plant, and the shutdown will cost $1 billion (with a "b"). This will shoot the electric bill past $200/month.

Food is definitely more expensive - (beef)steak has gone from $5/kilo to $10/kilo, gasoline has doubled in price, and everything, from I-Phones, to Printers that is delivered, costs more since it relies on gasoline to get to its destination, energy has gone up 50-100% over the past 6 years, but the official government stats are that inflation (Core Consumer Price Index) has increased just 1-2% per year over the past 6 years.

Nobbynumbnuts
28-09-2014, 02:57
[quote=fenrir;1355531]

As for basic food stuffs there is not and will not be a very big increase in prices anytime soon.

I'll alert the media..;-)

Nobbynumbnuts
28-09-2014, 03:01
[quote]
It's the same, the 100ru, buys the same milk and eggs,no real change in price..

With inflation running at about 7.5% p.a at the moment, your 100 rubles cannot be worth the same one year on.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 09:05
[quote=Uncle Wally;1355532]

I'll alert the media..;-)

Have you ever heard of price controls, you like what Nixon did in the 70's when he took America of the gold standard? Here eggs, bread and milk have been under some control for years. I like how people on the other side of the earth tell us how bad we have it here in Moscow, like we never go to the shop and buy anything. Sorry to tell you this because it really sounds like you want all of us to suffer but prices have not gone up that much.

fenrir
28-09-2014, 09:16
[quote=Nobbynumbnuts;1355570]

Have you ever heard of price controls, you like what Nixon did in the 70's when he took America of the gold standard? Here eggs, bread and milk have been under some control for years. I like how people on the other side of the earth tell us how bad we have it here in Moscow, like we never go to the shop and buy anything. Sorry to tell you this because it really sounds like you want all of us to suffer but prices have not gone up that much.

That's because your own leaders and media are reporting the price rises. Here is an article by DW quoting info from Kommersant.

http://www.dw.de/food-imports-ban-backfires-on-russias-economy/a-17888880

Btw, cherry picking individual food items isn't going to help your argument. We could cherry pick items that have seen double digit rises too but the overall situation is what counts.

vossy7
28-09-2014, 09:54
WTF....I'm a happy bunny ......even though the Rubdub has tanked......
going to make a brekky of nice bacon from Orel....eggs from Russian chickens...sweet tomatoes from the garden and some nice mushrooms from the local forest......but no freaking укроп :11158:

penka
28-09-2014, 10:00
[quote=Uncle Wally;1355617]

That's because your own leaders and media are reporting the price rises. Here is an article by DW quoting info from Kommersant.

http://www.dw.de/food-imports-ban-backfires-on-russias-economy/a-17888880

Btw, cherry picking individual food items isn't going to help your argument. We could cherry pick items that have seen double digit rises too but the overall situation is what counts.

Since I'm living on two countries, am taxed, got the bills to pay and goods/services to buy in two countries, I suppose I got a say here. Overall situation is the prices are moving upwards and so does the personal inflation, whatever the rosy numbers are printed for the public consumption.

And as jolly it is to get by as an abramovitch, as difficult it is to survive as a lonely pensioner with a small monthly pay. Whatever the passport or residency.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 10:05
[quote=fenrir;1355622]

Since I'm living on two countries, am taxed, got the bills to pay and goods/services to buy in two countries, I suppose I got a say here. Overall situation is the prices are moving upwards and so does the personal inflation, whatever the rosy numbers are printed for the public consumption.

And as jolly it is to get by as an abramovitch, as difficult it is to survive as a lonely pensioner with a small monthly pay. Whatever the passport or residency.


Well where are you? If it is there then we're in the same boat if here you need to know where and what to shop for.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 10:21
[quote=Uncle Wally;1355617]

That's because your own leaders and media are reporting the price rises. Here is an article by DW quoting info from Kommersant.

http://www.dw.de/food-imports-ban-backfires-on-russias-economy/a-17888880

Btw, cherry picking individual food items isn't going to help your argument. We could cherry pick items that have seen double digit rises too but the overall situation is what counts.

I'm not cherry pickin anything I'm telling you what I see when I go to shop. We've had a lot of food from the dacha too, the table here is full of apples! You want some please come and take them.

Russian Lad
28-09-2014, 10:51
Sorry to jump in, just could not resist, my bad. I think there is no comparison between Sweden and Russia, in Russia we are witnessing the beginning of a systemic collapse. Bank24 got terminated on 16th, thousands of livelihoods got their businesses stalled for months, many will be ruined. They wrote a desperate letter to the president pleading for help and mercy. I was laughing reading their comments under the letter:
https://www.change.org/p/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%83-%D1%80%D1%84-%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%83-%D0%B2-%D0%B2-%D0%B3-%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0-%D1%83%D0%BB-%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC-23-16-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4-11-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8-%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%8B-%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8C%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B0-%D0%B8%D0%B7-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0-24-%D1%80%D1%83-%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%BE%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%B8-%D0%B2%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8F-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3#share
Please continue.

FatAndy
28-09-2014, 11:03
Sorry to jump in, just could not resist, my bad.
Yes, you promised 2 months and don't keep obligations. Right, thermal death of Universe is closer and closer. How much are potatoes now in SPb? :)

Russian Lad
28-09-2014, 11:07
Yes, you promised 2 months and don't keep obligations.

Ok-ok, I crawl back to my lair. Just reading not very bright comments and experiencing a knee-jerk reaction. 50 thousand Russians + their employees ruined, - nonsense? Ok. I thought you were supposed to be a patriot around here. I am laughing only because they supported the Dark Side (most of them, judging by the content of their pleas and helpless outcries) and duly suffered. But I feel some compassion too - the one similar to the compassion for a misbehaving dog hit by a truck.
Another song for you:
Š“Ń€ŃƒŠæŠ° ŠŠ¢Šž - Š ŠÆ ŠŠ• ŠœŠžŠ”ŠšŠŠ›Š¬! (2014) - YouTube

FatAndy
28-09-2014, 11:34
Ok-ok, I crawl back to my lair. Just reading not very bright comments and experiencing a knee-jerk reaction. 50 thousand Russians + their employees ruined, - nonsense? Ok. I thought you were supposed to be a patriot around here. I am laughing only because they supported the Dark Side (most of them, judging by the content of their pleas and helpless outcries) and duly suffered. But I feel some compassion too - the one similar to the compassion for a misbehaving dog hit by a truck.
Another song for you:
Video-shmideo and squeal of hamsters - everything is nice. You haven't answered regarding potatoes. ;) Btw, our partners in Ekb have managed to extract their money from bank24. Some nerves, yes.

Russian Lad
28-09-2014, 11:40
You haven't answered regarding potatoes.

I can only afford the cheapest ones, 19 rubles per kilo. After the dirt and worms are scrubbed off, only half a kilo is left, though they are wonderful and crunchy when cooked properly, - I use the same vegetable oil for ten-fifteen meals, some worms still get cooked and it sort of gives a meaty flavor and a vibrant tincture to the whole dish.
But I also have meat on holidays, usually some cheap chicken wings I get at a discount because they are overdue and not many people want them. They are delicious, because the meat is slightly rotten and it gives them a very delicate taste and an excuisite aroma.
P.S. Hope you were having a breakfast when reading this.:)

FatAndy
28-09-2014, 11:46
Well, you're lucky f@$&, in our village it is 25-30, but I must admit it is clean and washed. Do you also make economy on matches? :verycool:

Delicious worms? You're in the line with your beloved maidowns: http://www.0564.ua/news/627340

Also, SouthEast Asia cuisine may wonder you with them too. You told smth about emigrating to Thailand beaches soon iirc? :)

Regarding breakfast - yes, I do. Pancakes with caviar, cherry tomatoes, Kievsky tortik and tea with Shuysky balzam. Bon appetite! :beerbros:

vossy7
28-09-2014, 11:51
Sorry to jump in, just could not resist, my bad. I think there is no comparison between Sweden and Russia, in Russia we are witnessing the beginning of a systemic collapse. Bank24 got terminated on 16th, thousands of livelihoods got their businesses stalled for months, many will be ruined. They wrote a desperate letter to the president pleading for help and mercy. I was laughing reading their comments under the letter:
https://www.change.org/p/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%83-%D1%80%D1%84-%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%83-%D0%B2-%D0%B2-%D0%B3-%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0-%D1%83%D0%BB-%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC-23-16-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4-11-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8-%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%8B-%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8C%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B0-%D0%B8%D0%B7-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0-24-%D1%80%D1%83-%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%BE%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%B8-%D0%B2%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8F-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3#share
Please continue.

Hey RL......happy Sunday to you mate.....your link is kinda FUBAR.....
however ......how is life with you on the other side?
I have never known what the "other site" is ......is the grass really greener there ?

Russian Lad
28-09-2014, 11:56
is the grass really greener there ?

It is still the gr**** even though it is occasionally shown on Rossiya24 and all the experts there claim it is not gr**** but trees. At this point its color doesn't matter, really.
The link works fine on my side, dunno.

vossy7
28-09-2014, 11:59
It is still the gr**** even though it is occasionally shown on Rossiya24 and all the experts there claim it is not gr**** but trees. At this point its color doesn't matter, really.
The link works fine on my side, dunno.

Cheers mate.....at least you respond .....not like a lot of the old....oops ....usual posters here:)

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 12:07
It is still the gr**** even though it is occasionally shown on Rossiya24 and all the experts there claim it is not gr**** but trees. At this point its color doesn't matter, really.
The link works fine on my side, dunno.


I plan to be in St.Pete in Nov. You must invite me for dinner you sound like a wonderful cook! But I don't know why you waste the worms? They are good proten. I'll bring the vodka.

FatAndy
28-09-2014, 12:13
I'll bring the vodka.
Hope not the one bottle? :D

vossy7
28-09-2014, 12:26
Hope not the one bottle? :D

Andy, you have just became my "most wanted" at my last supper :1306:

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 12:33
Hope not the one bottle? :D

How could I bring only one, I want him to drink too. And what about breakfast? I don't want to have to run to the shop.

FatAndy
28-09-2014, 12:34
I just try to remind old Russian proverb - no matter how much of vodka you buy, anyway to run two more times for it ;)

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 12:40
I just try to remind old Russian proverb - no matter how much of vodka you buy, anyway to run two more times for it ;)

so true.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 12:44
Talking about vodka, they keep having sales at the shop, 220 rubles half liter.

FatAndy
28-09-2014, 12:52
Talking about vodka, they keep having sales at the shop, 220 rubles half liter.
Is it in SPb? Tell RL the address, he'll appreciate.

vossy7
28-09-2014, 12:54
I just try to remind old Russian proverb - no matter how much of vodka you buy, anyway to run two more times for it ;)

Just remembered an old Irish joke.....
So Mick met Paddy sitting on a park bench necking a bottle of Paddy with two empties beside him on the ground
Mick " Paddy , you were told to keep it to one bottle a day...that's what your doctor told you"
Paddy "I didn't believe that fu&ker for a moment so I decided to get the advice of two more doctors and they told me exactly the same thing"

Russian Lad
28-09-2014, 13:23
Originally Posted by Uncle Wally View Post
Talking about vodka, they keep having sales at the shop, 220 rubles half liter.
Is it in SPb? Tell RL the address, he'll appreciate.

I am too poor for that, I can only afford glass cleaning liquids, on big holidays.

vossy7
28-09-2014, 13:34
I am too poor for that, I can only afford glass cleaning liquids, on big holidays.

RL, I'm not supposed to tell you this but the best low cost high ever is Brasso :shhhhhh:

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 13:35
I am too poor for that, I can only afford glass cleaning liquids, on big holidays.



There are no job's in St. Pete?

Russian Lad
28-09-2014, 13:55
There are no job's in St. Pete?

Well, sometimes I work as a garbage remover, to make the ends meet. It has its perks, occasionally I find half-finished bottles of some fancy tasty wines and other alco when I rummage through the containers. The bottles stink a bit, but you get used to the smell.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 14:05
Well, sometimes I work as a garbage remover, to make the ends meet. It has its perks, occasionally I find half-finished bottles of some fancy tasty wines and other alco.


Don't joke around you can do better than that. Maybe you could start a pet sitting business or walk peoples dogs.

Russian Lad
28-09-2014, 14:08
or walk peoples dogs

I find stray dogs sometimes (when I rummage through the containers, see, they come for food there) and sell them for meat to the local shaurmas, a good side income - dog meat, chicken meat - the Azeris put good white sauce on it, no big difference. Russian patriots hate McDonald's, shaurmas are booming, everyone is happy.

Just joking, I see you believe it already. Russians can make you believe stories, be careful.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 14:19
I find stray dogs sometimes (when I rummage through the containers, see, they come for food there) and sell them for meat to the local shaurmas, a good side income - dog meat, chicken meat - the Azeris put good white sauce on it, no big difference. Russian patriots hate McDonald's, shaurmas are booming, everyone is happy.


You have to get yourself some meat glue, steak brings in much more $$$$


Is Your Prime Steak Held Together By 'Meat Glue?' - YouTube

fenrir
28-09-2014, 14:57
[quote=fenrir;1355622]

I'm not cherry pickin anything I'm telling you what I see when I go to shop. We've had a lot of food from the dacha too, the table here is full of apples! You want some please come and take them.

No thanks. We've got plenty of those here. I just pressed enough apples to get 30 liters of juice that is currently brewing and should be a 7.5%-8.0% cider in about another week.

FatAndy
28-09-2014, 15:29
Well, sometimes I work as a garbage remover, to make the ends meet.
What "garbage remover", ffs? It is called proudly - territory cleaning manager! :cool:


I just pressed enough apples to get 30 liters of juice that is currently brewing and should be a 7.5%-8.0% cider in about another week.
Don't miss the moment, otherwise you'll use those 30 L of apple vinegar till the end of your life... Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła, jeszcze cydr nie skwaśniał ;)

Judge
28-09-2014, 16:39
With inflation running at about 7.5% p.a at the moment, your 100 rubles cannot be worth the same one year on.

All I know is that when I buy a litre of milk and 10 eggs, I still have a few rubles left over from a 100ru note, been the same for the past few years....
Inflation at 7.5, 8, 9 or 10, just numbers mate.....kinda like when they say, $20bn wiped off the value of Apple,just numbers on a screen to us ordinary folk.

Suuryaa
28-09-2014, 19:30
You have to get yourself some meat glue, steak brings in much more $$$$


Is Your Prime Steak Held Together By 'Meat Glue?' - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PE9rdmvIz0)

What would Ben say about this?

Nobbynumbnuts
28-09-2014, 20:00
All I know is that when I buy a litre of milk and 10 eggs, I still have a few rubles left over from a 100ru note, been the same for the past few years....
Inflation at 7.5, 8, 9 or 10, just numbers mate.....kinda like when they say, $20bn wiped off the value of Apple,just numbers on a screen to us ordinary folk.

Not just numbers, it's up to you to educate yourself. Inflation is not just made up by the price of eggs and milk.
If the price of milk and eggs are not going up then they are subsidized by the government. Very good you might think but that equates to billions and billions of rubles being spent by the government to keep prices down. Subsidies create inefficiencies and it's better in the long run to tackle the problems that require subsidies to be implemented at source
There's no such thing as a free lunch! ;)

20 billion wiped off the price of apple doesn't effect the ordinary folk? Many ordinary folk have a pension plan (personal or through a work scheme) and most are equity based, that means they go up and down with the price of shares.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 22:28
Not just numbers, it's up to you to educate yourself. Inflation is not just made up by the price of eggs and milk.
If the price of milk and eggs are not going up then they are subsidized by the government. Very good you might think but that equates to billions and billions of rubles being spent by the government to keep prices down. Subsidies create inefficiencies and it's better in the long run to tackle the problems that require subsidies to be implemented at source
There's no such thing as a free lunch! ;)

20 billion wiped off the price of apple doesn't effect the ordinary folk? Many ordinary folk have a pension plan (personal or through a work scheme) and most are equity based, that means they go up and down with the price of shares.



Not in this country, they'll let you make up the difference on something else. In these hard times we must all do our duty.

Uncle Wally
28-09-2014, 22:30
What would Ben say about this?

I would like to know that too. Do they do that here too?

Fantastika
29-09-2014, 10:14
I find stray dogs sometimes (when I rummage through the containers, see, they come for food there) and sell them for meat to the local shaurmas, a good side income - dog meat, chicken meat - the Azeris put good white sauce on it, no big difference. Russian patriots hate McDonald's, shaurmas are booming, everyone is happy.

Just joking, I see you believe it already. Russians can make you believe stories, be careful.


The dating agency can offer something really special (I bet the IMBRA zealots never thought of banning "aso aso"):

Stewed Dog (wedding style)

Recipe By : Joe Sweeney
Serving Size : 30 Preparation Time :3:00
Categories : Ethnic Lamb
Philippines

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3 kg dog meat -- * see note
1 1/2 cups vinegar
60 peppercorns -- crushed
6 tablespoons salt
12 cloves garlic -- crushed
1/2 cup cooking oil
6 cups onion -- sliced
3 cups tomato sauce
10 cups boiling water
6 cups red pepper -- cut into strips
6 pieces bay leaf
1 teaspoon tabasco sauce
1 1/2 cups liver spread -- ** see note
1 whole fresh pineapple -- cut 1/2 inch thick

1. First, kill a medium sized dog, then burn off the fur over a hot fire.
2. Carefully remove the skin while still warm and set aside for later (may be
used in other recpies)
3. Cut meat into 1″ cubes. Marinade meat in mixture of vinegar, peppercorn,
salt and garlic for 2 hours.
4. Fry meat in oil using a large wok over an open fire, then add onions and
chopped pineapple and suate until tender.
5. Pour in tomato sauce and boiling water, add green peper, bay leaf and
tobasco.
6. Cover and simmer over warm coals until meat is tender. Blend in liver spread
and cook for additional 5-7 minutes.

* you can substiture lamb for dog. The taste is similar, but not as pungent.
** smooth liver pate will do as well.

Like to try this out on "Hitler" - that's my name for the neighbor's black mixed-mongrel pit bull who froths at the mouth, bellowing, yanking and strangling himself on his chain, trying to get a piece of me whenever I ride my bike or walk by. He even recognizes my car, and I roll the window up, just to make sure. My other neighbor has kids, and Mom now drives them to school, past the canine terrorist.

Armoured
29-09-2014, 10:28
Kommersant has a detailed article on the effect on various products.

http://kommersant.ru/doc/2577878

Mineconomy estimates the impact will be prices up by 12-13%.

Personally I think it's too early to tell from what we see in stores what the effect will be in the end: there's stuff in warehouses, new supply chains not yet fully established, stores are trying to keep prices from going up too much all at once (sometimes because they're afraid of government going after them, in other cases because their competitors still have stuff in warehouses bought before and they have to compete on price), and - a big factr for fruit and veggies - it's the harvest season and yes, Russian apples, pears, and etc are still available (and the biggest impact will likely be on fruits and veggies during the offseasons).

There's also a very important quote at the end that can't be ignored: "в результате перехода к новым поставщикам качество товаров снижается. "Не зря же мы раньше закупали продукты в Европе"."

There _will_ be a reduction in quality and choice. And while this can't be easily quantified, a reduction in quality and choice is inflation - just slightly hidden inflation.

As an example, a good friend has a kid with dietary issues, and the kid just won't eat most types of cheese. The cheese the kid will eat is now gone - and finding substitutes is a hassle and expensive (and arguably not good for his health).

Matt24
29-09-2014, 10:54
RL, I'm not supposed to tell you this but the best low cost high ever is Brasso :shhhhhh:

Vossy you old trickster - Brasso is a terrible high, especially the chewable version - relatively low alcohol content plus manhood disabling levels of ammonia, yer only man is lighter fluid - she's a proper cocktail - in 1998 during the last serious ruble meltdown, I was in Saransk at a birthday party which was catered with Galinna Blanca stock cubes crafted into a very thin soup, Lavash and case upon case of Eau De Cologne - plenty of space left in the exchange rate before the brasso needs to come out


Withnail And I - Lighter Fluid - YouTube

Fantastika
29-09-2014, 11:24
Baboons - Drinkin' Gasoline

Judge
29-09-2014, 11:24
Not just numbers, it's up to you to educate yourself. Inflation is not just made up by the price of eggs and milk.
If the price of milk and eggs are not going up then they are subsidized by the government. Very good you might think but that equates to billions and billions of rubles being spent by the government to keep prices down. Subsidies create inefficiencies and it's better in the long run to tackle the problems that require subsidies to be implemented at source
There's no such thing as a free lunch! ;)

Subsidies are good,why not let the government govern,why not?
As long as they are subsidizing domestic agriculture and Infrastructure,things they want to encourage,why shouldn't they intervene?
Government shouldn't sit back and let industries go down the drain, you need a balanced economy.
How do you think capitalist countries got to where they are now, it was by tarffis and subsisdies,and this is what Russia is doing now, balancing their economy.


20 billion wiped off the price of apple doesn't effect the ordinary folk? Many ordinary folk have a pension plan (personal or through a work scheme) and most are equity based, that means they go up and down with the price of shares.

If someone is stupid enough to invest all their money in one company , then they deserve to lose it...Same goes for pension companies...

Uncle Wally
29-09-2014, 11:57
Subsidies are good,why not let the government govern,why not?
As long as they are subsidizing domestic agriculture and Infrastructure,things they want to encourage,why shouldn't they intervene?
Government shouldn't sit back and let industries go down the drain, you need a balanced economy.
How do you think capitalist countries got to where they are now, it was by tarffis and subsisdies,and this is what Russia is doing now, balancing their economy.



If someone is stupid enough to invest all their money in one company , then they deserve to lose it...Same goes for pension companies...

Farm
http://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&page=states

Fisheries[edit]

Today, much of the world's major fisheries are overexploited; in 2002, the WWF estimate this at approximately 75%. Fishing subsidies include "direct assistant to fishers; loan support programs; tax preferences and insurance support; capital and infrastructure programs; marketing and price support programs; and fisheries management, research, and conservation programs."[25] They promote the expansion of fishing fleets, the supply of larger and longer nets, larger yields and indiscriminate catch, as well as mitigating risks which encourages further investment into large-scale operations to the disfavour of the already struggling small-scale industry.[15][26] Collectively, these result in the continued overcapitalization and overfishing of marine fisheries.


Football,
The National Football League's (NFL) profits have topped records at $11 billion, the highest of all sports. Attention is beginning to look at the NFL's tax-exemption status[27] and all the stadiums built through tax-free borrowing by the cities, resulting from subsidies out of the pockets of every American taxpayer


Subsidy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Armoured
29-09-2014, 12:16
The National Football League's (NFL) profits have topped records at $11 billion, the highest of all sports. Attention is beginning to look at the NFL's tax-exemption status[27] and all the stadiums built through tax-free borrowing by the cities, resulting from subsidies out of the pockets of every American taxpayer

I agree, this is the craziest effective subsidy ever.

But I'm confused - are you arguing that this is an example that Russia should follow? Or just the reflexive 'what's-good-for-the-goose' response of every True Patriot (tm)?


Subsidies are good,why not let the government govern,why not?
As long as they are subsidizing domestic agriculture and Infrastructure,things they want to encourage,why shouldn't they intervene?

Sure, government can be involved and is involved. But it's also normal to ask questions about whether the spending makes sense and is effective.

In the case of agriculture:
1) So far, Russian government spending on agriculture has been massively ineffective and expensive (see for example Rosselkhozbank) and frequently corrupt (see Rosagroleasing).

2) It is a type of tax - because with the anti-sanctions (increased prices) _and_ request for subsidies taxpayers are paying twice (or more).

Uncle Wally
29-09-2014, 12:46
I agree, this is the craziest effective subsidy ever.

But I'm confused - are you arguing that this is an example that Russia should follow? Or just the reflexive 'what's-good-for-the-goose' response of every True Patriot (tm)?



Sure, government can be involved and is involved. But it's also normal to ask questions about whether the spending makes sense and is effective.

In the case of agriculture:
1) So far, Russian government spending on agriculture has been massively ineffective and expensive (see for example Rosselkhozbank) and frequently corrupt (see Rosagroleasing).

2) It is a type of tax - because with the anti-sanctions (increased prices) _and_ request for subsidies taxpayers are paying twice (or more).



Every government needs to do it sometimes to protect their companies, farmmers, exporters. It's been done and it works. You're a fool if you don't.

JanC
29-09-2014, 14:42
Meanwhile, on topic, with a new week comes a new ruble low. Very close now to the point where the central bank is committed to intervene.

FatAndy
29-09-2014, 17:36
I am too poor for that, I can only afford glass cleaning liquids, on big holidays.
Yesterday I visited Perekrestok in our village, and they offer 0.5L - Russian Standard for 299 rub, and Parliament for 239, while somewhat "Kalinka" with red label in other shop here is 270 rub.

Glass cleaning is good, I agree, but regarding the ease of purification, politura is the best! :verycool:

http://eslovnik.com/img/Politura.jpghttp://rare-shop.ru/_ph/69/2/169505404.jpg

Nobbynumbnuts
29-09-2014, 21:31
Subsidies are good,why not let the government govern,why not?
As long as they are subsidizing domestic agriculture and Infrastructure,things they want to encourage,why shouldn't they intervene?
Government shouldn't sit back and let industries go down the drain, you need a balanced economy.
How do you think capitalist countries got to where they are now, it was by tarffis and subsisdies,and this is what Russia is doing now, balancing their economy.



If someone is stupid enough to invest all their money in one company , then they deserve to lose it...Same goes for pension companies...

It's not a desirable situation if governments are subsidizing products, wages or anything else. It stifles competition, creates an imbalance in the market place, creates demand for the products being subsidized (therefore more subsidies are needed) I'm sure there is also an effect on money supply, inflation etc. as well. They take funds away from other areas.
If the government wants to help agriculture better to encourage investment there. Cut red tape, tax cuts, invest in infrastructure etc etc. Subsidies are not the way to do it.

Russia is balancing it's economy?? It's almost completely dependent on oil and gas!

To think that the performance of stock market and equities are the realm solely of the evil rich and corrupt bankers is naive in the extreme.
Just because people don't don't understand it, doesn't mean it's not important to us all.

Russian Lad
30-09-2014, 05:19
Russia is balancing it's economy?? It's almost completely dependent on oil and gas!

Speaking of which, ExxonMobil has stopped 9 out of its 10 projects in Russia:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/09/29/exxon/

Judge
30-09-2014, 12:24
It's not a desirable situation if governments are subsidizing products, wages or anything else. It stifles competition, creates an imbalance in the market place, creates demand for the products being subsidized (therefore more subsidies are needed) I'm sure there is also an effect on money supply, inflation etc. as well. They take funds away from other areas.
If the government wants to help agriculture better to encourage investment there. Cut red tape, tax cuts, invest in infrastructure etc etc. Subsidies are not the way to do it.


Then why do countries like America and the EU subsidise products if it's such a bad thing like you suggest,
one example of many,
The US spends $3.4 billion to subsidise 25,000 US cotton farmers. The EU 15 (OECD European members) spent $179.28 per cow subsidising European cattle.
Like I said before,capitalism was built on tariffs and subsidies,now Russia is subsidising some areas you think it's all bad(which I find odd), whereas others do it and have done for years...It's about protecting your own,I'm sure you have heard about all the help the french farmers get.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/france-agriculture-idUSL6N0HR1I720131002

Judge
30-09-2014, 13:00
Sure, government can be involved and is involved. But it's also normal to ask questions about whether the spending makes sense and is effective.

In the case of agriculture:
1) So far, Russian government spending on agriculture has been massively ineffective and expensive (see for example Rosselkhozbank) and frequently corrupt (see Rosagroleasing).

2) It is a type of tax - because with the anti-sanctions (increased prices) _and_ request for subsidies taxpayers are paying twice (or more).
For the results, if they were effective we will see in a few months or in a years time....Sure, corruption is a big problem and holding progress back,I haven't read about the bank or the leasing firm, if you have any links...
But I won't be surprised to learn that some are making a tidy profit from all this, same goes for the EU when they offered to pay farmers hit by the Russian sanctions,there was corruption involved and they had to stop paying out.Everyone is trying to take advantage of the situation,just the way the world spins.

FatAndy
30-09-2014, 13:05
Grandpa monuments discussion is removed as off-topic. Please return to topic (falling ruble). Thanks for understanding.

Russian Lad
30-09-2014, 13:06
Ok. Well, it is falling.

FatAndy
30-09-2014, 13:07
Speaking of which, ExxonMobil has stopped 9 out of its 10 projects in Russia:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/09/29/exxon/
Terrible. Their top managers soon will be fighting for a cup of rice...:mooooh:

Judge
30-09-2014, 13:07
Grandpa monuments discussion is removed as off-topic. Please return to topic (falling ruble). Thanks for understanding.

I'll create a new a thread....

FatAndy
30-09-2014, 13:08
Ok. Well, it is falling.
Thank you, Captain.

FatAndy
30-09-2014, 13:09
I'll create a new a thread....
Up to you, but then RL will again restart his 2-month period? ;)

Judge
30-09-2014, 13:18
Up to you, but then RL will again restart his 2-month period? ;)

That's a long time to be on a period...

posts about Lenin moved here...

http://expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?p=1356402#post1356402

Armoured
30-09-2014, 13:21
For the results, if they were effective we will see in a few months or in a years time....Sure, corruption is a big problem and holding progress back,I haven't read about the bank or the leasing firm, if you have any links...

Google either. Hundreds of billions of rubles lost at Rosselkhoz (and remember, this is _in addition_ to government direct subsidies of loans.

For Rosagroleasing, former agriculture minister involved:
http://eng.election2012.ru/reports/1/17.html


But I won't be surprised to learn that some are making a tidy profit from all this, same goes for the EU when they offered to pay farmers hit by the Russian sanctions,there was corruption involved and they had to stop paying out.Everyone is trying to take advantage of the situation,just the way the world spins.

That's the classic 'it happens everywhere' response that is just so fundamentally lazy. It doesn't make it right, it raises serious questions about the logic of the underlying policy that you started out defending, and no, nothing on the scale of these two in agriculture is happening in EU and others.

Russian Lad
30-09-2014, 15:10
Speaking about the prices for groceries going up, even Dvorkovitch has disagreed with Judge and admitted his personal groceries cost up to 20% higher than just 9 months ago:
http://news.mail.ru/economics/19683700/?frommail=1

Judge, how does it feel, trying hard to be holier than the holy?:) Does anyone really appreciate your efforts?

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 18:12
Speaking about the prices for groceries going up, even Dvorkovitch has disagreed with Judge and admitted his personal groceries cost up to 20% higher than just 9 months ago:
http://news.mail.ru/economics/19683700/?frommail=1

Judge, how does it feel, trying hard to be holier than the holy?:) Does anyone really appreciate your efforts?



Ooo pick me! Pick me!

I do, I do I do I do I do!

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 18:38
Speaking about the prices for groceries going up, even Dvorkovitch has disagreed with Judge and admitted his personal groceries cost up to 20% higher than just 9 months ago:
http://news.mail.ru/economics/19683700/?frommail=1

Judge, how does it feel, trying hard to be holier than the holy?:) Does anyone really appreciate your efforts?



"Listening to Poroshenko a few days ago and then to Obama at the UNGA can leave no doubt whatsoever about the fact that the AngloZionist Empire is at war with Russia. Yet many believe that the Russian response to this reality is inadequate. Likewise, there is a steady stream of accusations made against Putin about Russia’s policy towards the crisis in the Ukraine. What I propose to do here is to offer a few basic reminders about Putin, his obligations and his options."

"I have already grown used to the truly remarkable level of dishonesty of the Putin-bashing crowd and by now I consider it par for the course. But I wanted to illustrate that one more time just to show that at least in certain cases an honest discussion is not the purpose at all. But I don’t want to bring it all down to just a few dishonest and vociferous individuals. There are also many who are sincerely baffled, frustrated and even disappointed with Russia’s apparent passivity"


http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2014/09/29/510233the-anglozionist-empire-is-at-war-with-russia/

Russian Lad
30-09-2014, 20:20
http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2014/...r-with-russia/

Am I supposed to actually believe this RT blogs drivel?:) And what was your point posting that? I should stop believing Dvorkovitch (a top level Russian official) regarding his assessment of the groceries prices after reading that pre-paid RT sh't? I don't see any consistency in your random posting of propaganda. Try to work out a coherent pattern. Even blatant lies should be offered with a certain logical order I believe.

Nobbynumbnuts
30-09-2014, 20:25
Then why do countries like America and the EU subsidise products if it's such a bad thing like you suggest,
one example of many,
The US spends $3.4 billion to subsidise 25,000 US cotton farmers. The EU 15 (OECD European members) spent $179.28 per cow subsidising European cattle.
Like I said before,capitalism was built on tariffs and subsidies,now Russia is subsidising some areas you think it's all bad(which I find odd), whereas others do it and have done for years...It's about protecting your own,I'm sure you have heard about all the help the french farmers get.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/france-agriculture-idUSL6N0HR1I720131002

The powerful lobbyist in the US will press for subsidies. Still doesn't make it right or a sensible thing to do. The US also practices protectionism. For example, steel cannot be imported in to the US to protect their steel producers. This is against WTO regulations and free trade agreements. Just because the US does it doesn't make it right.
You've heard of the EU wine lakes, cheese mountains etc? I rest my case.

And these subsidies in Russia are not aimed at the producers but consumers, by keeping prices down. Big difference. ;)

Armoured
30-09-2014, 20:47
...the AngloZionist Empire is at war with Russia.

Seriously?

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 21:10
Am I supposed to actually believe this RT blogs drivel?:) And what was your point posting that? I should stop believing Dvorkovitch (a top level Russian official) regarding his assessment of the groceries prices after reading that pre-paid RT sh't? I don't see any consistency in your random posting of propaganda. Try to work out a coherent pattern. Even blatant lies should be offered with a certain logical order I believe.


Where did you see that it's from RT? Those are red blooded Americans.


You should go out and see for yourself what is going on. What I see is America wants to start a war. Sorry I can't blame Putin for everything bad that happens. With what I see I start liking Putin more and more everyday.

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 21:11
Seriously?



How should I know? It's on the net.

Armoured
30-09-2014, 21:22
How should I know? It's on the net.

You quote someone as a source who uses "Anglozionist" as an epithet and expect anyone to take it remotely seriously? That speaks to your lack of taste and discernment rather than making any point.

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 21:29
You quote someone as a source who uses "Anglozionist" as an epithet and expect anyone to take it remotely seriously? That speaks to your lack of taste and discernment rather than making any point.


Gee I thought it was funny. Sounds like an American RL.

Russian Lad
30-09-2014, 21:39
Wally, that rag is plastered with RT videos, it just screams "made in RT" at any casual observer. And yes, I assume there are Americans who like the Russian money, I am sure. Looks like you are one of them yourself.
Just tell me at what point you got pissed off with the US - was it a girl who left you, a job that you lost, what was it to cause this desperate hypercompensation in your tormented soul? I studied to be a priest at a certain juncture of my life, I will understand. Confess. Relieve your soul, brother. Jesus still loves you.

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 22:24
Wally, that rag is plastered with RT videos, it just screams "made in RT" at any casual observer. And yes, I assume there are Americans who like the Russian money, I am sure. Looks like you are one of them yourself.
Just tell me at what point you got pissed off with the US - was it a girl who left you, a job that you lost, what was it to cause this desperate hypercompensation in your tormented soul? I studied to be a priest at a certain juncture of my life, I will understand. Confess. Relieve your soul, brother. Jesus still loves you.


I lived in a place with lots of history and I found out that all the government schools lied about US history. I understood at a very young age that there is no justice in America. So no truth no justice no American way. When the CIA started selling cocaine in America to buy guns to kill South Americans and there was nothing anybody was going to do about it I knew we were lost. I also got harassed for having long hair and wearing different clothes so I understood that there is no freedom there. I came here just to see a friend and met a girl and because it would take so long to bring her back home I decided to more here for a few years and wait but before I could leave I met good friends and just started to like it here. Now it is my home.

Nobbynumbnuts
30-09-2014, 22:38
I lived in a place with lots of history and I found out that all the government schools lied about US history. I understood at a very young age that there is no justice in America. So no truth no justice no American way. When the CIA started selling cocaine in America to buy guns to kill South Americans and there was nothing anybody was going to do about it I knew we were lost. I also got harassed for having long hair and wearing different clothes so I understood that there is no freedom there. I came here just to see a friend and met a girl and because it would take so long to bring her back home I decided to more here for a few years and wait but before I could leave I met good friends and just started to like it here. Now it is my home.


...and you like all the freedom in Russia. :rolleyes:

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 23:06
...and you like all the freedom in Russia. :rolleyes:

Yes! Much more freedom here. Moscow is a great city and I have made so many friends! I even think the cops in Moscow have gotten nicer or at very least have a sense of humor try to find that in the states. Russian can be very caring people. I been having a great time! I have only lived in this new place for a few months and already everbody knows me and says hi and we talk and help each other. All the people in the shops smile and say hi to me aand know what I buy, they only ask "one or two" very friendly! I meet people I know all over Moscow and my girlfriend asked one time if I know everyone because so many people say hi no matter where we are in Moscow. So yeah I like it.

Nobbynumbnuts
30-09-2014, 23:24
....I have only lived in this new place for a few months......

Right. Funny, i was talking to a Russian just the other day. They told me how wonderful all westerners are. So polite, happy, generous, friendly, always saying hallo. She said she'd only know the one and just for a few months......;)

Russian Lad
30-09-2014, 23:41
Right, Wally, you have been here only for a few months and believe you have grown knowledgeable about Russia, more than a Russian like me who has spent over here for about 40 years. Do you even speak the language?:)
All I can say you may have escaped from inferno, but you have found yourself in hell. One day you may realize it. I do hope not through a physical experience, like getting beaten into bleeding semi-consciousness for just speaking English in the street - remember, your own theory that the US has started a war in Ukraine, killing Russians and so forth, is shared by most Russians now (who got brainwashed through propaganda) - you simply may have no time to explain to them that you are on their side. Remember me then.:10189:
There is a saying, if you don't laugh at your fate, you have missed the joke. Don't know why, but I have remembered it while typing this post.

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 23:48
Right. Funny, i was talking to a Russian just the other day. They told me how wonderful all westerners are. So polite, happy, generous, friendly, always saying hallo. She said she'd only know the one and just for a few months......;)


I don't really get what you are trying to say but I have lived in Moscow for 19 years now and have lived in many places around Moscow. I worked in many clubs too. The westeners that I've know haven't been all that nice and don't have many Russia friends. Some are down right strange. I have just one friend here from Italy the rest are Russia. I did make two new friends from Texas but they went home.

Uncle Wally
30-09-2014, 23:53
Right, Wally, you have been here only for a few months and believe you have grown knowledgeable about Russia, more than a Russian like me who has spent over here for about 40 years. Do you even speak the language?:)
All I can say you may have escaped from inferno, but you have found yourself in hell. One day you may realize it. I do hope not through a physical experience, like getting beaten into bleeding semi-consciousness for just speaking English in the street - remember, your own theory that the US has started a war in Ukraine, killing Russians and so forth, is shared by most Russians now (who got brainwashed through propaganda) - you simply may have no time to explain to them that you are on their side. Remember me then.:10189:
There is a saying, if you don't laugh at your fate, you have missed the joke. Don't know why, but I have remembered it while typing this post.

Yes I have though of that, about being hated for not being Russian. I do speak Russian. The same goes for you too if you leave here they may think you are a spy.

Russian Lad
01-10-2014, 00:09
My risk of getting arrested in the US as a potential spy is purely hypothetical, I have no idea how to get there except as a tourist (I may go if you sponsor the trip), your risk is rather real, you run it every day once you leave your apartment.

Fantastika
01-10-2014, 00:38
Yes I have though of that, about being hated for not being Russian. I do speak Russian. The same goes for you too if you leave here they may think you are a spy.

I think RL is trying to say you should be morose, fearful, angry and in despair or apathy. Stop this interest, enthusiasm, openness and serenity. Stop smiling, stop being happy!

Maybe's he's read too much Dostoevsky...

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 01:09
Right, Wally, you have been here only for a few months and believe you have grown knowledgeable about Russia, more than a Russian like me who has spent over here for about 40 years. Do you even speak the language?:)
All I can say you may have escaped from inferno, but you have found yourself in hell. One day you may realize it. I do hope not through a physical experience, like getting beaten into bleeding semi-consciousness for just speaking English in the street - remember, your own theory that the US has started a war in Ukraine, killing Russians and so forth, is shared by most Russians now (who got brainwashed through propaganda) - you simply may have no time to explain to them that you are on their side. Remember me then.:10189:
There is a saying, if you don't laugh at your fate, you have missed the joke. Don't know why, but I have remembered it while typing this post.


I have lived and worked in many countries around the world. I am constantly amazed at how expats arrive in a new country and start to gush about how wonderful they are, how much better than than are than back home etc etc.
There's a simple fact about living in someone else's country-you don't have to concern yourself with the everyday problems of that country. You just concentrate on living the good life.
I know, i done it so many times....

Uncle Wally
01-10-2014, 01:38
I think RL is trying to say you should be morose, fearful, angry and in despair or apathy. Stop this interest, enthusiasm, openness and serenity. Stop smiling, stop being happy!

Maybe's he's read too much Dostoevsky...


Never will I be like that. You smile at the world and the world will smile back.

Judge
01-10-2014, 07:45
Google either. Hundreds of billions of rubles lost at Rosselkhoz (and remember, this is _in addition_ to government direct subsidies of loans.

For Rosagroleasing, former agriculture minister involved:
http://eng.election2012.ru/reports/1/17.html



That's the classic 'it happens everywhere' response that is just so fundamentally lazy. It doesn't make it right, it raises serious questions about the logic of the underlying policy that you started out defending, .

I'm defending the idea of subsidising in general , it being a good policy to use for countries,Nobby on the other hand doesn't think so, thinking that it prevents growth and is ineffective, no mention of corruption to my mind....You brought in the corruption part of how will it be effective,which I said '.Sure, corruption is a big problem and holding progress back'
So, you won't get an argument from me defending subsidising when corruption is involved,all it will do is stifle growth and like Nobby said, will stop money being spent else where.


and no, nothing on the scale of these two in agriculture is happening in EU and others.


I wouldn't be too sure about that...
A few EU agriculture corruption scandals...
http://www.arc2020.eu/front/2012/07/polish-government-shaken-by-corruption-scandal-sawicki-resigns/

http://flarenetwork.org/learn/europe/article/romania_former_agriculture_minister_sentenced_to_seven_years_in_prison_for_corruption.htm

http://www.novinite.com/articles/126826/Alleged+Corruption+Scandal+Rattles+Bulgaria's+State+Agriculture+Fund

and in Italy..
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/eu-priorities-2020/report-italy-overzealous-reporting-eu-farm-fraud-cases-303674

and one more that sums it all up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310591/EU-budget-fraud-4BILLION-12-times-higher-previous-figure.html
You could probably go through every EU country and find something....

Judge
01-10-2014, 13:38
The powerful lobbyist in the US will press for subsidies. Still doesn't make it right or a sensible thing to do. The US also practices protectionism. For example, steel cannot be imported in to the US to protect their steel producers. This is against WTO regulations and free trade agreements. Just because the US does it doesn't make it right.
You've heard of the EU wine lakes, cheese mountains etc? I rest my case.

And these subsidies in Russia are not aimed at the producers but consumers, by keeping prices down. Big difference. ;)

I know you're a Thatcherite, for lesser government interference and all for more better efficiency and so on,but sometimes it's not all about being more efficent,it's about having your citizens in work and being able to provide for your family,this can't be done if cheaper products from abroad flood the market. American steel, how many does this employ, probably over 100000 people,that pay tax and spend their wages in Amercia,better than cheaper steel and more profits for just a few people,sometimes you have to accept a little less efficiency to keep your countyrmen happy.

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 21:12
I know you're a Thatcherite, for lesser government interference and all for more better efficiency and so on,but sometimes it's not all about being more efficent,it's about having your citizens in work and being able to provide for your family,this can't be done if cheaper products from abroad flood the market. American steel, how many does this employ, probably over 100000 people,that pay tax and spend their wages in Amercia,better than cheaper steel and more profits for just a few people,sometimes you have to accept a little less efficiency to keep your countyrmen happy.

Shortsighted. Propping up companies, wages and products doesn't work. As i said, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Higher inflation, less efficient industries, less competition, lower standards, all cost more money and jobs in the long run. All that is too much for the average Joe on the street to understand. Your message is easier to understand-therefore more popular with your average scouser! :D

Then where does protectionism stop? I say you can't sell us steel because of our steelworkers then you say you can't sell us apples because of our farmers. Before you know it, trade grinds to a halt. Who decides who's deserving of being protected. Everyone will claim a right.

Forgot who said but "there's nothing more stupid than the electorate" (or something like that) ;)

Russian Lad
01-10-2014, 21:50
it's not all about being more efficent,it's about having your citizens in work and being able to provide for your family,this can't be done if cheaper products from abroad flood the market.

If all is so swell in Russia, why poverty is on a rise? 300000 more poor people this year alone, according to Rosstat (the state statistics agency). Some sources put the number below the poverty line at over 20 million people. It is a sure-fire sign that something is DRASTICALLY wrong, given the (still) rather high oil prices. Banki24 got shut down without a worning, over 30 thousand small and middle size enterprises suffered - no money to pay the workers, etc.
http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/10/01/bogatyeibednye/

Frankly, I don't understand you at all. Maybe you are one of those guys who think: "I have a good salary, so everything around me is great then!" Beats me big time.

Judge
01-10-2014, 21:52
Shortsighted. Propping up companies, wages and products doesn't work. As i said, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Higher inflation, less efficient industries, less competition, lower standards, all cost more money and jobs in the long run. All that is too much for the average Joe on the street to understand. Your message is easier to understand-therefore more popular with your average scouser! :D

Then where does protectionism stop? I say you can't sell us steel because of our steelworkers then you say you can't sell us apples because of our farmers. Before you know it, trade grinds to a halt. Who decides who's deserving of being protected. Everyone will claim a right.

Forgot who said but "there's nothing more stupid than the electorate" (or something like that) ;)

How can it be 'shortsighted' countries have been subsidising for years,there is a reason for this...Imagine if there were no subsidising ,local industries would collapse, mass unemployment,governments toppled...
The French government is already nearly on it's knees ,piss off the farmers there and it will be mayhem,complete collapase and waiting in the wings is someone like Le Pen eager to take power.....

Uncle Wally
01-10-2014, 21:55
How can it be 'shortsighted' countries have been subsidising for years,there is a reason for this...Imagine if there were no subsidising ,local industries would collapse, mass unemployment,governments toppled...
The French government is already nearly on it's knees ,piss off the farmers there and it will be mayhem,complete collapase and waiting in the wings is someone like Le Pen eager to take power.....


That's right everything would be made in China!

Judge
01-10-2014, 22:03
Speaking about the prices for groceries going up, even Dvorkovitch has disagreed with Judge and admitted his personal groceries cost up to 20% higher than just 9 months ago:
http://news.mail.ru/economics/19683700/?frommail=1

Judge, how does it feel, trying hard to be holier than the holy?:) Does anyone really appreciate your efforts?


I'm not ignoring your post, just need time to get round to it cos strange to think about this...
The guy in your post talks about price hikes of 20% in the last 9 months,and what, maybe he needs to change where he shops and his buying habits .If it's that bad then people like him need to tighten their belts.
At my local shop, we have 450g of tender pork, 3 good sized portions for 180ru,10 eggs less than 50ru, potatoes(you know the price).... pork ,eggs and chips for less than 250ru,bloody hell , even a packet of your cheapish pelmini is what, 60ru, smetana 35ru....all washed down with vino from Krim, 230ru bottle or even better abkhazia....Did you forget how to make soup,pick some wild apples and make yourself a tasty apple pie for dessert...

Russian Lad
01-10-2014, 22:07
The guy in your post talks about price hikes of 20% in the last 9 months

It is not just some guy, it is the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, like the third important man in Russia, after Medvedev and Putin. Judge, wake up, the coffee is ready.:) You don't notice the growth of prices maybe because your income is way above 20-30K rubles per month. If it was 23K rubles, like my mother is earning, you would see how hmmm... not very intellectual all that you said sounds. There is a saying in Russia - сытый голодного не понимает (he who has food will never understand those who are hungry).
Arkady Dvorkovich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 22:08
How can it be 'shortsighted' countries have been subsidising for years,there is a reason for this...Imagine if there were no subsidising ,local industries would collapse, mass unemployment,governments toppled...
The French government is already nearly on it's knees ,piss off the farmers there and it will be mayhem,complete collapase and waiting in the wings is someone like Le Pen eager to take power.....

We're going round in circles. As i said, using the excuse that some countries have been doing something for years cannot be used as an example that its right. Countries have been opening their borders to all and sundry for years. Is that right, just because they've been doing it?

Again, the subsidies in Russia on food are targeted at consumers (keeping prices down) NOT at industries. They are shortsighted and wasteful. They need to identify and tackle the problems at source.

France?? They are a great example of a socialist government which has failed to reform the economy. You're making my argument for me! ;)

Judge
01-10-2014, 22:16
It is not just some guy, it is the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, like the third important man in Russia, after Medvedev and Putin. Judge, wake up, the coffee is ready.:)
Arkady Dvorkovich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Dvorkovich)

Well, I'm sure the number 3 in line to the throne doesn't shop in the same places I do or buys the same stuff....logistics plays a roll in this, I can't speak abour prices in the far east of Russia, all I can tell you is what I spend..

My cheap instant nescafe coffee smells just like it did last year...:sunny:

Uncle Wally
01-10-2014, 22:21
We're going round in circles. As i said, using the excuse that some countries have been doing something for years cannot be used as an example that its right. Countries have been opening their borders to all and sundry for years. Is that right, just because they've been doing it?

Again, the subsidies in Russia on food are targeted at consumers (keeping prices down) NOT at industries. They are shortsighted and wasteful. They need to identify and tackle the problems at source.

France?? They are a great example of a socialist government which has failed to reform the economy. You're making my argument for me! ;)


Shows you know nothing about Russia. First and formost, don't piss off the babushka! You'll have a revolt on you hand quicker than you can say durak

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 22:26
......At my local shop, we have 450g of tender pork, 3 good sized portions for 180ru,10 eggs less than 50ru, potatoes(you know the price).... pork ,eggs and chips for less than 250ru,bloody hell , even a packet of your cheapish pelmini is what, 60ru, smetana 35ru....all washed down with vino from Krim, 230ru bottle or even better abkhazia....Did you forget how to make soup,pick some wild apples and make yourself a tasty apple pie for dessert...

All well and good, people should know how to be more self sufficient and tighten their belts but reverting to growing your own vegetables, making your own clothes etc might be satisfying but does nothing for the local economy.

Judge
01-10-2014, 22:27
You don't notice the growth of prices maybe because your income is way above 20-30K rubles per month. If it was 23K rubles, like my mother is earning, you would see how hmmm... not very intellectual all that you said sounds. There is a saying in Russia - сытый голодного не понимает (he who has food will never understand those who are hungry).
Arkady Dvorkovich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Dvorkovich)

I would notice if there was a growth,let's say a significant growth, sure I would know.
Ones income does come into play of what can be bought,like I mentioned about the pork, potatoes ,eggs,even home made pelmini will be cheaper(if you have the time) and soup, making enough to last you a few days...
You are making it out that many are starving cos of the recent events, cos of the sanctions that Russia put on western countries, I call bullshit, no one issuffering cos of these sanctions,well some people are, the farmers and their families in the EU..

Russian Lad
01-10-2014, 22:33
You are making it out that many are starving cos of the recent events, cos of the sanctions that Russia put on western countries, I call bullshit, no one issuffering cos of these sanctions,well some people are, the farmers and their families in the EU..

I am not saying many are starving because of the sanctions (we are not even truly beginning to see the results, any sound economics book will tell you about "ripples" - the inflation and stagnation waves that hit the market in like a year after a certain shock, big time), I am saying that the Russian economy is ineffective and was in a bad shape even before the santions, 300000 more people below the poverty line in Russia this year, according to Rosstat, the state run agency).
The sanctions are not just going to make it worse, they are precipitating the collapse.
Poverty (according to the state official data) was growing even before that, 600 thousand more poor people within half a year in 2013:
http://www.vestifinance.ru/articles/37499

Judge
01-10-2014, 22:36
All well and good, people should know how to be more self sufficient and tighten their belts but reverting to growing your own vegetables, making your own clothes etc might be satisfying but does nothing for the local economy.

Yes they should, this generation has grown soft...and the generation before this one..
What's wrong with growing your own veg,I have done it this summer, never had to buy anything, still enjoying my cherry tomatoes,onions and peppers. I'm thinking of buying another 6 mtr greenhouse so I can go all year round, start to marinate and all....

Uncle Wally
01-10-2014, 22:40
Yes they should, this generation has grown soft...and the generation before this one..
What's wrong with growing your own veg,I have done it this summer, never had to buy anything, still enjoying my cherry tomatoes,onions and peppers. I'm thinking of buying another 6 mtr greenhouse so I can go all year round, start to marinate and all....



How To Scrog - Marijuana Growing - YouTube

Judge
01-10-2014, 22:43
How To Scrog - Marijuana Growing - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9XNBuiQm4)

Enough with that,, I show my friends my greenhouse on Skype and they say the same,only good old veg will grow in mine here.... for the shame I know, but when I go west, I'll sample a few Sativas and get blown away by the Indicas...:lovepot:

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 22:45
Yes they should, this generation has grown soft...and the generation before this one..
What's wrong with growing your own veg,I have done it this summer, never had to buy anything, still enjoying my cherry tomatoes,onions and peppers. I'm thinking of buying another 6 mtr greenhouse so I can go all year round, start to marinate and all....

As i said, nothing wrong with being more self reliant but if everyone starts doing it, especially because times are getting hard then the country has a real problem.
It's not rocket science. If you (and everyone else) used to spend 100 rubles at the supermarket and now you spend 50..................get the picture? ;)

Judge
01-10-2014, 22:53
As i said, nothing wrong with being more self reliant but if everyone starts doing it, especially because times are getting hard then the country has a real problem.
It's not rocket science. If you (and everyone else) used to spend 100 rubles at the supermarket and now you spend 50..................get the picture? ;)

Then the supermarket prices must come down, that's bringing us back to shares like in Apple when they lose $20bn, if a companies shares come down, the best thing for them to do is lower their prices,cos at the end of the day, the last thing they wanna do is go bust..It all kinda levels itself out..

In Russia, there is a big dacha culture, where as you know many grow their own and even sell to make ends meet...There's no such culture in western countries, all they know is consumerism,that's the difference.
Let's make a friendly wager, I bet that the EU will give in first in this sanction war...

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 23:06
Then the supermarket prices must come down, that's bringing us back to shares like in Apple when they lose $20bn, if a companies shares come down, the best thing for them to do is lower their prices,cos at the end of the day, the last thing they wanna do is go bust..It all kinda levels itself out..

In Russia, there is a big dacha culture, where as you know many grow their own and even sell to make ends meet...There's no such culture in western countries, all they know is consumerism,that's the difference.
Let's make a friendly wager, I bet that the EU will give in first in this sanction war...

Again way too simplistic.
How are you going to reduce supermarket prices? You'll have to reduce prices right down the supply chain. Who's at the bottom of the supply chain? you've guessed it-You're comrades, the farmers. You're talking about a command economy. USSR, remember what happened there?
Share price usually has little to do with the selling price of the products. Share prices fall (and rise) often for spurious reasons

Judge, your arguments might go down well in a bar in Liverpool but you've joined the international set now! :D

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 23:10
......Let's make a friendly wager, I bet that the EU will give in first in this sanction war...

Jesus Christ! Russia is ruled by a dictator, i hope Europe is able to blink first............for all our sakes. :rolleyes:

Judge
01-10-2014, 23:15
Again way too simplistic.
How are you going to reduce supermarket prices? You'll have to reduce prices right down the supply chain. Who's at the bottom of the supply chain? you've guessed it-You're comrades, the farmers. You're talking about a command economy. USSR, remember what happened there?
Share price usually has little to do with the selling price of the products. Share prices fall (and rise) often for spurious reasons

Judge, your arguments might go down well in a bar in Liverpool but you've joined the international set now! :D


“Simplicity is the key to brilliance” who said that?
keep complicating the system,it's the common folk that gets hurt most.

Judge
01-10-2014, 23:16
Jesus Christ! Russia is ruled by a dictator, i hope Europe is able to blink first............for all our sakes. :rolleyes:

Now you're being silly, a dictator..... here we like to call him Czar..:beerbros:

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 23:26
Now you're being silly, a dictator..... here we like to call him Czar..:beerbros:

In all but name he's a dictator. Have you applied for Russian citizenship yet? ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 23:33
“Simplicity is the key to brilliance” who said that?
keep complicating the system,it's the common folk that gets hurt most.

He was probably from Liverpool. lol ;)
You're suggesting that the common folk are too stupid to understand the system.
As said before, nothing more stupid than the electorate! ;)

Judge
01-10-2014, 23:37
Judge, your arguments might go down well in a bar in Liverpool but you've joined the international set now!
True, but we aren't in Liverpool anymore...

Nobby, i've said this before, the bottom line is all about survival,you might be comfy in your beach hut in Thailand,which is great and all,but reality for us here and in Europe is basic needs...
Word is we are in for a bloody cold winter,this plays right into the hands of Russia, how many times have we seen in history, the Russian winter helping out the Rodina,be it against Napoleon's army or the Germans,the Russian winter can play a part in these sanctions....already countries are getting cold feet, like Hungary,Bulgaria,France and Germany, the Germans might go into recession next month all because of their silly sactions against Russia....
I say Russia should go after Germany economically, bring Germany to its knees and the rest will follow, Putin and co know this,for now they are playing with small countries like Estonia,Latvia, Poland,Spain and so..Go straight for the queen of the EU,the rest will crumble.

It's like a game of chess, for now Russia has been toying with Europe with her pawns,jabbing here and there, trying to penertrate with little success(it seems)...
I said all along that Russia should have cut off the gas back in March, this is the 8 months supply that mant EU countries had stored,so it would have been almost empty by now,panic would have already set in...That's my style of chess, come out probing with my queen to make as much damage early on,but we all know Russians are the grandmasters of the game of chess and they like a slow build up before..................

Judge
01-10-2014, 23:40
He was probably from Liverpool. lol ;)
You're suggesting that the common folk are too stupid to understand the system.
As said before, nothing more stupid than the electorate! ;)

All Liverpool is concerned about tonight is that we are playing in the champs league, but other so called kings of England have no european football to watch...:applause::applause::applause: is that simple enough for you?

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 23:47
True, but we aren't in Liverpool anymore...

Nobby, i've said this before, the bottom line is all about survival,you might be comfy in your beach hut in Thailand,which is great and all,but reality for us here and in Europe is basic needs...
Word is we are in for a bloody cold winter,this plays right into the hands of Russia, how many times have we seen in history, the Russian winter helping out the Rodina,be it against Napoleon's army or the Germans,the Russian winter can play a part in these sanctions....already countries are getting cold feet, like Hungary,Bulgaria,France and Germany, the Germans might go into recession next month all because of their silly sactions against Russia....
I say Russia should go after Germany economically, bring Germany to its knees and the rest will follow, Putin and co know this,for now they are playing with small countries like Estonia,Latvia, Poland,Spain and so..Go straight for the queen of the EU,the rest will crumble.

It's like a game of chess, for now Russia has been toying with Europe with her pawns,jabbing here and there, trying to penertrate with little success(it seems)...
I said all along that Russia should have cut off the gas back in March, this is the 8 months supply that mant EU countries had stored,so it would have been almost empty by now,panic would have already set in...That's my style of chess, come out probing with my queen to make as much damage early on,but we all know Russians are the grandmasters of the game of chess and they like a slow build up before..................

The sanctions against Russia are not silly. Russia has wronged in Ukraine. The rest of Europe is saying it cannot except it's actions. The sanctions are their to punish Russia-not bring it down

You're talking like a crazed tin pot dictator. Bring Germany down? Are you mad??

A build up before what? War between Europe and Russia?
You growing some other herbs there out in the dacha? ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
01-10-2014, 23:49
All Liverpool is concerned about tonight is that we are playing in the champs league, but other so called kings of England have no european football to watch...:applause::applause::applause: is that simple enough for you?

As much as it hurts, i do have to concede that point. Enjoy while it lasts.
We will be back! ;)

Judge
01-10-2014, 23:55
The sanctions against Russia are not silly. Russia has wronged in Ukraine. The rest of Europe is saying it cannot except it's actions. The sanctions are their to punish Russia-not bring it down

Here we go, where did Russia go wrong in Ukraine:bookworm:


You're talking like a crazed tin pot dictator. Bring Germany down? Are you mad??

Yeah, economically,what's wrong with bringing the Germans down a notch or two, England wouldn't mind doing this,let's not bs here, we all know who is running the EU, bring Germant down economically and the rest will follow, if you didn't know this a business war...

A build up before what? War between Europe and Russia?

An economic war...Where have you been these past months?

Judge
01-10-2014, 23:58
As much as it hurts, i do have to concede that point. Enjoy while it lasts.
We will be back! ;)

Enjoy playing frendlies midweek... good idea, money maker...you see , it's all about the money.. can UTD afford not making the money?
Liverpool last season without europea footy nearly won the league,but...
ssshhh 1 nil down..

Nobbynumbnuts
02-10-2014, 00:00
Here we go, where did Russia go wrong in Ukraine:bookworm:



Yeah, economically,what's wrong with bringing the Germans down a notch or two, England wouldn't mind doing this,let's not bs here, we all know who is running the EU, bring Germant down economically and the rest will follow, if you didn't know this a business war...


An economic war...Where have you been these past months?

Haven't got the energy (been very busy at work) to go into the rights and wrongs again. let's just say as Europe sees it.

If you're simply talking about politics and economic matters and not military conflict then it will play out....;)

Nobbynumbnuts
02-10-2014, 00:04
.....Liverpool last season without europea footy nearly won the league,but...
ssshhh 1 nil down..

Was you're big chance and you blew it!
Chelski or City again this season, me thinks. ;)

Judge
02-10-2014, 00:05
Haven't got the energy (been very busy at work) to go into the rights and wrongs again. let's just say as Europe sees it.
Neither have I,lets see how it plays out, like I said early on, there are no real winners in all of this...


If you're simply talking about politics and economic matters and not military conflict then it will play out....;)

Like above, both sides will lose, but there are some making money of this...

Judge
02-10-2014, 00:08
Was you're big chance and you blew it!
Chelski or City again this season, me thinks. ;)
Yep,
Won't have another chance like that for a few years....

Agree, can't see any other teams besides them two... I'd prefer city, just to see Jose's excuses.

Nobbynumbnuts
02-10-2014, 00:09
....but other so called kings of England have no european football to watch...:applause::applause::applause: is that simple enough for you?

We get to watch Eddie Izzard live at the Apollo this evening. Win-win! ;)

Judge
02-10-2014, 00:10
Just checked scores, welbeck hat-trick... ouch:applause:

Nobbynumbnuts
02-10-2014, 00:14
Just checked scores, welbeck hat-trick... ouch:applause:

I get the feeling you enjoyed saying that....;)

Judge
02-10-2014, 00:18
I get the feeling you enjoyed saying that....;)
Yes and no, we payed the same amount for super Mario.

Nobbynumbnuts
02-10-2014, 00:21
Yes and no, we payed the same amount for super Mario.

Could be a bargain, Welbeck is no Super Mario.

Uncle Wally
02-10-2014, 04:58
Jesus Christ! Russia is ruled by a dictator, i hope Europe is able to blink first............for all our sakes. :rolleyes:

Judge lets mail him a copy of 1984.

FatAndy
02-10-2014, 10:17
Bad news for RL again:
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/542ce4a4cbb20f658eb4cd20

JanC
06-10-2014, 13:10
Not to make this into a perpetual bad news topic, but the ruble made another "historic" low this morning, crossing the 40 mark against the dollar.

This isn't because of ongoing sanctions anymore, it's about Russia's weak finances and specifically the oil price. Which is really Russia's biggest weak spot of all. The US have been "influential" in the currently lower oil price, knowing full well that it's by far the largest bargaining chip in this conflict.

I don't believe the Saoudis would've dropped their minimum selling price without the US asking them nicely. Plus America's own oil production (at the cost of great environmental stress) is rising every day.

With these external factors depressing Russia's biggest source of income for the foreseeable future, and even the long term, this ruble slide will take some stopping.

(I'll point out that I actually hope Russia will do well economically, it's in my interest. But it's getting more difficult to stay optimistic.)

Suuryaa
06-10-2014, 13:54
Not to make this into a perpetual bad news topic, but the ruble made another "historic" low this morning, crossing the 40 mark against the dollar.

This isn't because of ongoing sanctions anymore, it's about Russia's weak finances and specifically the oil price. Which is really Russia's biggest weak spot of all. The US have been "influential" in the currently lower oil price, knowing full well that it's by far the largest bargaining chip in this conflict.

I don't believe the Saoudis would've dropped their minimum selling price without the US asking them nicely. Plus America's own oil production (at the cost of great environmental stress) is rising every day.

With these external factors depressing Russia's biggest source of income for the foreseeable future, and even the long term, this ruble slide will take some stopping.

(I'll point out that I actually hope Russia will do well economically, it's in my interest. But it's getting more difficult to stay optimistic.)

The rulers had plenty of time and opportunities while Russia's economy was on the rise. But they only stole as much as they could. One good thing is at least they can't run away to the Western countries :).

Russian Lad
06-10-2014, 17:29
Bad news for RL again:
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/542ce4a4cbb20f658eb4cd20

What do I have to do with this? :10293:

FatAndy
06-10-2014, 17:55
What do I have to do with this? :10293:
Nothing, just FYI. :beerbros: