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Guest
03-02-2008, 10:17
In the same time, England gives asylum to crooks and terrorists, and protects pedophiles. As woden/britpat1 said here a few times, British judges are INDEPENDENT. That is good...

A child protection charity has attacked a decision to save a paedophile from a long jail term after a judge said his 10-year-old rape victim dressed "provocatively". (http://www.oxfordmail.net/display.var.1494590.0.judge_claims_paedophile_victim_dressed_provocatively.php)

As the judge himself said " "It is quite clear she is a very disturbed child and a very needy child and she is a sexually precocious child. She liked to dress provocatively. [...] Did she look like she was 10? Certainly not. She looked 16, that was a matter that was accepted."

So, for Honorable Judge Julian Hall (photo below), it is anyway ok to be raped at 16 in England, and this 10 years girl was in fact the culprit!

And british "justice" wants to give lessons?


__

Wodin
03-02-2008, 11:34
And british "justice" wants to give lessons?


__

Short answer: YES!

Long answer...Isn't it good to be the citizen of a country where anybody is free to criticise anything and anyone..from the Queen down to the lowest...without fear of being visited at night by the FSB.

Isn't it nice to be a citizen of a country where anyone may demonstrate in city centres, be they gays, muslims, anti-war, pro-Serbian, anti-cruelty to animals etc etc etc wihout getting beaten up by OMON.....Kasparov would love it there

Guest
03-02-2008, 12:10
Short answer: YES!

Long answer...Isn't it good to be the citizen of a country where anybody is free to criticise anything and anyone..from the Queen down to the lowest...without fear of being visited at night by the FSB.

Isn't it nice to be a citizen of a country where anyone may demonstrate in city centres, be they gays, muslims, anti-war, pro-Serbian, anti-cruelty to animals etc etc etc wihout getting beaten up by OMON.....Kasparov would love it there


LOL, why doesn't he go there?

About night visits here from the federal security service, were you visited?


When your judges PROTECT criminals and says that a TEN YEARS RAPED GIRL IS CULPRIT TO HAVE BEEN RAPED, it is not a country where it is good to live!

And England is THE BEST (worse!!) rated for ANTI-PRIVACY measures of the gov.

Continue to give lessons! And to approve this judge, you are beginning to show your TRUE face.

Wodin
03-02-2008, 12:24
LMFAO. Pot calling the kettle huh? Take a gander at Russia in that list.

Incidentally, PI is a UK based independent privacy watchdog. It has not been shut down by the authorities and it's staff are not harassed by the police or security services. Is there anything like it in Russia?

You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel laddie.

All I need to add is this link

freedomhouse.org: Home (http://www.freedomhouse.org)

I guess it says it all.

Guest
03-02-2008, 18:27
> LMFAO. Pot calling the kettle huh? Take a gander at Russia in that list.


YES! But Russia has no pretention like England, to give lessons to the world!


> Incidentally, PI is a UK based independent privacy watchdog. It has not been shut down by the authorities and it's staff are not harassed by the police or security services. Is there anything like it in Russia?

Yes, there are NGO that receive funds from England (among others) to monitor Russian HR.


> You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel laddie.

Continue insulting, your true face shows up :) Funny that you cannot do ONE post without an insult...

And everybody can see that in the case described in this thread, you carefully avoid to reply about it and speak about the "right for gays to demonstrate". For sure. if your judges say that a TEN YEARS RAPED GIRL is the CVICTIM of the pedophile, gays also can do whatever they want in the streets!!

In short, you are a real british gentleman!

+

DBND
03-02-2008, 19:55
Is this thread about rights in Russia vs rights in UK or,

About the question if the UK judges maintain a standard which we expect from them? :eh:


(BTW I get deja vu feelings about that Italian affair with the lady in question wearing jeans... ;) )

Wodin
03-02-2008, 20:12
> LMFAO. Pot calling the kettle huh? Take a gander at Russia in that list.


YES! But Russia has no pretention like England, to give lessons to the world!


> Incidentally, PI is a UK based independent privacy watchdog. It has not been shut down by the authorities and it's staff are not harassed by the police or security services. Is there anything like it in Russia?

Yes, there are NGO that receive funds from England (among others) to monitor Russian HR.


> You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel laddie.

Continue insulting, your true face shows up :) Funny that you cannot do ONE post without an insult...

And everybody can see that in the case described in this thread, you carefully avoid to reply about it and speak about the "right for gays to demonstrate". For sure. if your judges say that a TEN YEARS RAPED GIRL is the CVICTIM of the pedophile, gays also can do whatever they want in the streets!!

In short, you are a real british gentleman!

+

And you, my dear fellow, conveniently ignore the point about Freedom House. (incidentally..the phrase 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' is not at all insulting...it means that you are finding rather weak examples to sustain your arguments. There again...if you wish to take it as an insult...I'll not stand in your way)

Wodin
03-02-2008, 20:14
Yes, there are NGO that receive funds from England (among others) to monitor Russian HR.


Please name one...one which is resident in Russia, which is financed by England and which has not been hassled by the Russian Authorities.

Guest
03-02-2008, 20:34
Is this thread about rights in Russia vs rights in UK or,

About the question if the UK judges maintain a standard which we expect from them? :eh:


(BTW I get deja vu feelings about that Italian affair with the lady in question wearing jeans... ;) )


As we can see, no brit want to argue about (t)his judge... Only wodin dared to reply, just to change topic! I understand that this information is rather unpleasant for Her Majesty's citizen...

_

MickeyTong
03-02-2008, 21:01
Stupid judicial decisions, such as this one made by Julian Hall, are made from time to time. But they are not regarded as "good" judgements, and always provoke outrage at their ignorance and insensitivity. In this particular case, I imagine most people will wonder about the sexual proclivities of Mr Hall....

Judge
03-02-2008, 21:56
As we can see, no brit want to argue about (t)his judge... Only wodin dared to reply, just to change topic! I understand that this information is rather unpleasant for Her Majesty's citizen...

_

It's nothing new for brits,we hear about these cases all the time,pedos,killers and rapists all getting let off or getting out early and committing another crime.Many english are sick of it and are leaving England for an easier life in the sun.It's like beating:11513:,the government says they will get tough on crime but nothing happens.I could give you link after link about crimes which were done by people who were let out of jail early,2 weeks ago,one guy got kicked to death by a guy who was let out early and shouldn't have been in the area.It's a never ending story.

britpat1
04-02-2008, 02:46
To begin with Guest, I did not rply because this game of yours at insulting anything remotely British is :

1. Childish
2. Bitter
3. A cheap shot at trying to discredit another nation because of this Consul business.
4. Unecessarry

But, because you need a lesson in the comlplex Judicial system, I shall try to reply to your cheap incorrect shot.

Your thread is misleading. Another attempt at attention seeking. Provocative perhaps...

To begin with you critsise the whole of the British juidiciary because of one decision. This is unfair, incorrect and one may easily cite a certain matter to make a point and then another will cite another and so the story will continue.

In fact, the manner in which the judiciary makes a decsion is complex and far beyond your understanding and quite above you. In fact, the British judicial system is historically what many other systems around the world are based on.

It is not free from miscarriages and decsions may sometimes be flawed, or disagreeable to certain people.

I would not make up my mind on a decision on the basis of an article taken from the Oxford mail, a small newspaper, the story is obviously biased and targetting a certain group of people, hardly an authority I think for a person to make an informed reasoned decsion.

Another point is, altough, it may seem unfair that these criminals did get off lightly from a charge of rape, the judge took into consideration how old the girl looked and said that she looked 16 - which is the age of consent. The two men must have shown that the girl did not look below the age of consent and therefore they believed her to be older, taking in consideration what was said and the appearance of the girl. Therefore, how old she looked became relevant in this case and also what she said - i.e. that she was 16.

Quote - Oxford Mail

"Did she look like she was 10? Certainly not. She looked 16, that was a matter that was accepted."


I am not saying the men are telling the truth, I am just trying to explain to you that the Judge himself said this was an exceptional case and that the men had commited a crime.

Quote- Oxford Mail:

"Judge Hall said: "It is an absolute crime because she was only 10.

In my experience this has been the most difficult sentencing exercise I have ever had to decide on. The circumstances in this case are exceptional."


In fact, if you went out and met a girl, who looked older, said she was older and had sex with you, how would you feel later on when you found out that she was not what she said she was. Then charged for rape (because of her age) - even though the intercouse was consented.

The overall role of a judge is to make a decision on facts and the law.

Girls do look older than you think nowadays, look around you. It could happen to anyone. I am not at all justifying the act, it is horrible, but one must look at it logically. This is a hard area of law and open to miscarriages, think for a moment, if a man belives and is tricked into having sex with a person below the age of consent, should he go to jail for many years? Debatable - we must bring to trail and punish in accordance with the facts and the law.

The men got registered on a sex offenders list, that means they will be unable to get certain jobs and carry this around with them all the time. There are consequences of their actions. I do not know for sure what the men thought of the girl's age, but, the judge must be certain.


Therefore, due to this complexity the judge has made this decision, it is easy to look at it emotionally, but when one looks at it logically, the judge did what was best on the finding of facts and ion accordance to the law. It is not an easy task.

Please tell me about the non-existence of sexual harrasment laws in Russia's workplace....

A woman I know, Russian had to resign because her employer had sexually abused her for many years and she could not do a single thing about it, otherwise lose her job.
She had to quit.

Perhaps your critique should be directed at and have relevance to this society with the same level of passion.

Yes, British judges may not be perfect, but, we can and do critique them and gladly we shall continiue. This is why we have an appeal system.

For your information, I do like Russia and find this debate unhealthy. Everything has it's positives and negatives and everyone is welcome to an opinion, but you are now too obsessive about your hate of UK.


Thank you for your over concern of Britain, I must now say bye, because I find this tiresome and far too unhealthy.