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Guest
03-02-2008, 10:11
The "pig meat" meat was already banned from most of british schools to not offend muslims, now here is an "autodafe": They begin to prohibe books!

A story based on the Three Little Pigs has been rejected by a government quango in case it offends Muslims. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/24/ntales124.xml)

But is that a surprise, from a country whose gov protects international islamist terrorists by giving them political asylum?

Wodin
03-02-2008, 11:31
The "pig meat" meat was already banned from most of british schools to not offend muslims, now here is an "autodafe": They begin to prohibe books!

A story based on the Three Little Pigs has been rejected by a government quango in case it offends Muslims. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/24/ntales124.xml)

But is that a surprise, from a country whose gov protects international islamist terrorists by giving them political asylum?

Yes indeed. A very silly thing to do. One of the excesses arising from political correctness. The funny thing is that all muslim bodies in the UK are on record as saying that the story of the three little pigs is in no way offensive to them. Don't worry though...we'll see sense eventually. The truth of the matter is that we try our best to accomodate the needs of everyone in our communities, silly though those needs might sound and sometimes our bureaucrats over react.

Compare that with a country where a senior government official brands "extremist" a group of people who are challenging the government of that country for the truth about a massacre of children in a school.

fenrir
03-02-2008, 13:50
It gets even better. Read this:

Watch Your Language

Teachers in British schools are being advised by the
government to avoid using the phrase "mom and dad" —
and not to assume children have heterosexual parents.
It's part of a sweeping new anti-discrimination effort
that was produced for the government by a gay rights
group.

Other guidance includes familiarizing students as
young as four with the idea of same-sex couples. When
discussing marriage with older students — teachers are
to instruct about civil partnerships and gay adoption
rights. Schools are to encourage gay role models among
staff members. And children who use the word "gay" are
to be treated the same as racists.

Judge
03-02-2008, 18:16
It's pathetic when you hear stories like this,how people can think it offends anyone is beyond me.The people who decide these things should be sacked and sent to do hard labour in some camp.


This really takes the p*ss.Isn't the colours of the rainbow a gay thing, it never ends.
''In the past, Baa Baa Black Sheep has become Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep''
Don't mess with something that doesn't need foxing.

Guest
03-02-2008, 18:33
That is the general way western Europe is going: banning all traditional values and denying traditions and culture. Look at France and England: The 2 worse countries of Europe where in the name of a "multiracial" country they now forgive Xmas trees in the streets as it hurts their "new citizens". England even does better, as their THIRD generation immigrants now wear explosive-belts to trips in the metro or buses! This 3rd generation that according to the british culture, should be completely integrated.

Instead of the traditional values, gays proudly demonstrate in the streets, criminals are released after a "symbolic sentence" given by judges that feel sympathy with them! There was a great story in France where the main judiciary syndicate published a book that represented the police as a big pig!

I recently saw that the european justice (?) court sentenced France that does not allow gay people to adopt a kid! Great for the kid, hey? Dad and Mum are both men... Very good for him!

Here are the new values western europe want to teach Russia! I can understand this as a global strategy to make Russia weaker, no problem. But that some idiots, ordinary citizens, can support this on an individual level is really disgusting.

_

Judge
03-02-2008, 19:13
It's pretty lame that countries want to teach Russia a thing or two when their own backyard is a mess,don't worry too much about it Guest,Russian leaders wont listen to the west on such matters.

About gays adopting kids,I'm on the fence on this one,If the gay couple can do a good job then maybe it might work but the kid would have a hard time from other school kids.Also the mental state of the kid later on in life is to be taken into consideration.

Guest
03-02-2008, 19:32
LOL Your Honour, I don not worry at all: Russian leaders won't listen but, more important, RUSSIAN PEOPLE do not want this kind of crap in Russia! We perfectly know, as we now travel a lot in the "western paradise", what is good and what is bad there and we perfectly see the "decadence" this "paradise". All is far than perfect in Russia, so NO NEED TO ADD this western decadence to our current problems!

Adopting by gays should IMO be strongly prohibited, just because it is against the natural order. Just think, the boy (for example) has two men as dad/mum. How will he understand how he was born? And what will he do later? With girls or with men?

Judge
03-02-2008, 19:46
LOL Your Honour, I don not worry at all: Russian leaders won't listen but, more important, RUSSIAN PEOPLE do not want this kind of crap in Russia! We perfectly know, as we now travel a lot in the "western paradise", what is good and what is bad there and we perfectly see the "decadence" this "paradise". All is far than perfect in Russia, so NO NEED TO ADD this western decadence to our current problems!

Adopting by gays should IMO be strongly prohibited, just because it is against the natural order. Just think, the boy (for example) has two men as dad/mum. How will he understand how he was born? And what will he do later? With girls or with men?

My step-uncle is gay and he adopted a boy a few years ago, and from what I know that boy is now petty f*ucked up in the head.On the other side of the coin,many gay couples can show lots of love to kids who have had a hard life and might be better off with a gay couple than being in some orphanage.Like I said i'm on the fence on this one.

There is an on going debate,should kids be taught about gays at an early age at school,this i'm dead set againt,kids shouldn't be taught such things at an early age.

Russia gets my respect for not wanting gay parades,I often ask my students this and 90% say,best they keep it indoors and not in the open for all Russia to see,this i agree on,don't wash your dirty cloths in public.

Wodin
03-02-2008, 20:08
That is the general way western Europe is going: banning all traditional values and denying traditions and culture. Look at France and England: The 2 worse countries of Europe where in the name of a "multiracial" country they now forgive Xmas trees in the streets as it hurts their "new citizens". England even does better, as their THIRD generation immigrants now wear explosive-belts to trips in the metro or buses! This 3rd generation that according to the british culture, should be completely integrated.

Instead of the traditional values, gays proudly demonstrate in the streets, criminals are released after a "symbolic sentence" given by judges that feel sympathy with them! There was a great story in France where the main judiciary syndicate published a book that represented the police as a big pig!

I recently saw that the european justice (?) court sentenced France that does not allow gay people to adopt a kid! Great for the kid, hey? Dad and Mum are both men... Very good for him!

Here are the new values western europe want to teach Russia! I can understand this as a global strategy to make Russia weaker, no problem. But that some idiots, ordinary citizens, can support this on an individual level is really disgusting.

_

You know what Guest...for all the politically correct crap we have in the UK, it's still a much better, kinder, more socially just, happier, richer, safer and more liberal place than Russia. Oh...and people live longer there. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Guest
03-02-2008, 20:41
You know what Guest...for all the politically correct crap we have in the UK, it's still a much better, kinder, more socially just, happier, richer, safer and more liberal place than Russia. Oh...and people live longer there. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it!


So you are losing years of your rich life in Russia, that is so sad!


> more socially just

LOL... there are no "poors", for sure! Or maybe "poors" are culprit to be poor.

And know what? Russians do not want your "liberal" system. Strange, no? You never think that you can be wrong? You are one of these pedants that are always sure to be in The Truth! The day when you will fall on your a$$, you will fall from high :)

Guest
03-02-2008, 20:46
About gay parades, I also now some gays in Moscow (they are not prosecuted, as some idiots say!), and most of them say that parades are just a big BS, they do NOT approve and as they say "they are some reasons for politicians that have no success to make them known". Last time, one of them wanted to go on the demonstration, and when he knew that a German deputy representative will come, he changed his mind...

Some gays can show more love than a man/woman for a kid, no problem for this. But this is against the "natural order" and will make problems in the kid's brain very quickly!

Teaching them about gays? For sure NO. better to teach them about the beauty of LOVE between man and woman, about nature, God, etc etc!!

But THIS is now not politicaly correct in western Europe.



My step-uncle is gay and he adopted a boy a few years ago, and from what I know that boy is now petty f*ucked up in the head.On the other side of the coin,many gay couples can show lots of love to kids who have had a hard life and might be better off with a gay couple than being in some orphanage.Like I said i'm on the fence on this one.

There is an on going debate,should kids be taught about gays at an early age at school,this i'm dead set againt,kids shouldn't be taught such things at an early age.

Russia gets my respect for not wanting gay parades,I often ask my students this and 90% say,best they keep it indoors and not in the open for all Russia to see,this i agree on,don't wash your dirty cloths in public.

Judge
03-02-2008, 22:17
You know what Guest...for all the politically correct crap we have in the UK, it's still a much better, kinder, more socially just, happier, richer, safer and more liberal place than Russia. Oh...and people live longer there. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Safer. I real safer on a saturday night in Moscow than in most cities in England.
Richer.Russians are catching up quick.
Kinder,yep, at first glance you are right but once you get to know russians,there isn't any messing about with them,you know where you stand. When Russians get used to westerners living here the kinder they will be,take the younger generation here,they are kinder than the youths in England,one look at some of the youths in England and you will have a bottle over your head..

Wodin
03-02-2008, 22:49
Safer. I real safer on a saturday night in Moscow than in most cities in England.
Richer.Russians are catching up quick.
Kinder,yep, at first glance you are right but once you get to know russians,there isn't any messing about with them,you know where you stand. When Russians get used to westerners living here the kinder they will be,take the younger generation here,they are kinder than the youths in England,one look at some of the youths in England and you will have a bottle over your head..

The 'kinder' bit referred to society actually...as in how many elderly babushkas do you see sweeping the streets of London, and how many morons do you see driving SUVs on pavements...that sort of thing...maybe I should have said more polite perhaps.

Wodin
03-02-2008, 22:55
So you are losing years of your rich life in Russia, that is so sad!




I have already told you why I'm here...it's to make lots of money so that I can then retire early and enjoy the rest of my life. Way things are going so far it's working. When I leave here I'll probably go to China where I'll make some more money and experience another culture and then...bliss.

The rest of your post doesn't require answering...it should be self evident.

As to gay rights that you seem to be so hung up about...whatever. But beware...as more of your young people travel to or work in the decadent West they will bring back with them memories of what it really means to be free....then starts the slippery slope...Maybe you should ban people from travelling to the West and ban western tv from being accessed here....

britpat1
04-02-2008, 02:00
The "pig meat" meat was already banned from most of british schools to not offend muslims, now here is an "autodafe": They begin to prohibe books!

A story based on the Three Little Pigs has been rejected by a government quango in case it offends Muslims. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/24/ntales124.xml)

But is that a surprise, from a country whose gov protects international islamist terrorists by giving them political asylum?




To begin with, you are factually incorrect. So, your attempt to discredit and your argument has failed:

This is because you mislead in your statement that the books have been prohibited due to the reference to 'pigs'.

Incorrect
But Newcastle-based publishers Shoo Fly were shocked when judges told them that their interactive 3D book was unsuitable for children.


"But Newcastle-based publishers Shoo Fly were shocked when judges told them that their interactive 3D book was unsuitable for children. In a feedback form, Becta told the company: "Judges would not recommend this product to the Muslim community in particular."

They also said that the subject was "questionable for certain groups within the UK" and that "only an exceedingly creative teacher could find this innovative".[/I]

agency [/B] working for the government.

Becta is the Government's lead agency for Information and Communications Technology (ICT) in education, covering the United Kingdom. It was established in 1998 through the reconstitution of the National Council for Educational Technology (NCET). Becta is a company limited by guarantee with charitable status. [I]Extracted from BECTA's website.

BECTA, it is trying to accomodate all sectors of the community with a product and clearly states it will not recomend the books, not prohibit, thus the books were changed.

However, the Muslim Council of Britain did not find it offensive and it still has been changed nevertheless.

Thus, I find what you have written misleading and is a perfect example when certain people try to change things around to make a point or to make themselves, look better, or discredit others.


Having said that, I am proud that my Country gives consideration to other people's feelings. This was marketing, when one markets a product, they seek advice and want it to reach a larger audience. Here, we need to benefit a wider audience and a recomendation has been made. Political correct may annoy some people but it is here to stay.


As for the government and Asylum seekers, that is not my concern.

britpat1
04-02-2008, 02:18
Having said that, eat your own words, it is an internal affair, so no concern of yours.

Willy
04-02-2008, 06:27
The 'kinder' bit referred to society actually...as in how many elderly babushkas do you see sweeping the streets of London, and how many morons do you see driving SUVs on pavements...that sort of thing...maybe I should have said more polite perhaps.


No we see them pi$$ing on dying people and filming it with cell phones, instead of helping them in England!

fenrir
04-02-2008, 09:38
For more laughs:

Quarter of Brits think Churchill was myth: poll - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080204/od_afp/britainpeoplehistoryoffbeat)

Guest
04-02-2008, 10:28
LOL, the brits now even deny their History! One of the wins of their "multi-cultural" philosophy :uk:

VIVE LA RENNE!


For more laughs:

Quarter of Brits think Churchill was myth: poll - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080204/od_afp/britainpeoplehistoryoffbeat)

Guest
04-02-2008, 10:31
Having said that, eat your own words, it is an internal affair, so no concern of yours.

The BC wanted to promote your "culture", right? So your "cultural situation" can be our problem too. Anyway finally you are probably right! A decadent england is good for Russia :)

Please go on into this way, burn "deviant" books in the street!

britpat1
04-02-2008, 17:31
No we see them pi$$ing on dying people and filming it with cell phones, instead of helping them in England!

Well, sorry mate but thats untrue. It's the opposite. I know many people who have had accidents and always been helped. In fact, I have also helped myself. It is not the culture as you would see in certain countries where people sue you for touching them.

Carbo
04-02-2008, 20:58
I think that there are one or two disturbing points running through this thread regarding what constitutes, and who is, ‘British’. Got a British Passport? Born and grew up in Britain? You're British. Whether you are black, gay, Muslim, Hindu, or anything else. Race, creed, sexual orientation and religion shouldn't come into it.

I do think we sometimes go too far to pander to those who are often far too precious about their faith, but then, we shouldn't tolerate systematic, or socialized, abuse or ridicule of that religion in any form, no matter how seemingly inconsequential.

Let's not forget that these guys are as British as me, and while there is a growing minority of extremists or fundamentalists (along the same lines as Christian fundamentalism in the US, and an even more extreme, bastardized version of Christianity and Islam when considering terrorists), the vast majority of British Muslims are law abiding, respectful British subjects and deserve to be afforded the respect, consideration and rights that other sectors of the British population enjoy.

Perhaps banning pork from all schools would be a step toward the absurd, but if the meat has been banned from schools with a large muslim attendance, it is simply common sense, and the non-muslim contingent is hardly being asked to sacrifice a great deal through not being able to heat pork and bacon at lunchtimes.

I would rather step too far in this direction, though, than lower our vigilance against creeping, nefarious racism. Once you let that little genie out of the bottle, it's very difficult to put back in, as certain countries, such as Russia now, and, to a far greater extent, the US in the recent past, have found.

This is especially the case when one considers the racist persecution non-whites have had to put up with from whites over the years. Its easy for you and I to say political correctness has gone mad, which I would say it plainly has, but I often wonder how it feels to be in the minority, only a generation or two removed from second-class citizenship and institutionalized racism. Of course, the flip side of that coin is that the emphasis should be on the immigrants to integrate, not the other way around, but most of these guys aren’t immigrants anymore, and the responsibility to integrate shouldn’t extend to putting up with the petty racism or religious bigotry of the indigenous population. Ultimately, though, it’s a fine and sensitive line to find the right balance.

To be sure, mixing two cultures can be difficult and sometimes painful, but racism, at whatever level, no matter how seemingly inconsequential, is always the result of ignorance and lack of tolerance and is always followed by verbal and physical aggression that begats similar aggression from the other side and rapidly degenerates into a vicious cycle.

Humanity, in my opinion, has always been most successful, and developed fastest, when cultures mix, and I believe our non-protestant Anglo Saxon Brits bring a tremendous amount to the table beyond making nice food, and populating our sports teams.

If other countries want to make themselves mono-cultural and mono-religious, that's up to them, and it's certainly the easier path; but I think those countries will be far worse off for that. And I guess that some would argue that an immigrant has no rights, so they should put up or go home. But the moment any country slips into persecution, the rest of the world has every right to speak out in protest.

fenrir
04-02-2008, 21:38
I think that there are one or two disturbing points running through this thread regarding what constitutes, and who is, ‘British’. Got a British Passport? Born and grew up in Britain? You're British. Whether you are black, gay, Muslim, Hindu, or anything else. Race, creed, sexual orientation and religion shouldn't come into it.

I do think we sometimes go too far to pander to those who are often far too precious about their faith, but then, we shouldn't tolerate systematic, or socialized, abuse or ridicule of that religion in any form, no matter how seemingly inconsequential.

Let's not forget that these guys are as British as me, and while there is a growing minority of extremists or fundamentalists (along the same lines as Christian fundamentalism in the US, and an even more extreme, bastardized version of Christianity and Islam when considering terrorists), the vast majority of British Muslims are law abiding, respectful British subjects and deserve to be afforded the respect, consideration and rights that other sectors of the British population enjoy.

Perhaps banning pork from all schools would be a step toward the absurd, but if the meat has been banned from schools with a large muslim attendance, it is simply common sense, and the non-muslim contingent is hardly being asked to sacrifice a great deal through not being able to heat pork and bacon at lunchtimes.

I would rather step too far in this direction, though, than lower our vigilance against creeping, nefarious racism. Once you let that little genie out of the bottle, it's very difficult to put back in, as certain countries, such as Russia now, and, to a far greater extent, the US in the recent past, have found.

This is especially the case when one considers the racist persecution non-whites have had to put up with from whites over the years. Its easy for you and I to say political correctness has gone mad, which I would say it plainly has, but I often wonder how it feels to be in the minority, only a generation or two removed from second-class citizenship and institutionalized racism. Of course, the flip side of that coin is that the emphasis should be on the immigrants to integrate, not the other way around, but most of these guys aren’t immigrants anymore, and the responsibility to integrate shouldn’t extend to putting up with the petty racism or religious bigotry of the indigenous population. Ultimately, though, it’s a fine and sensitive line to find the right balance.

To be sure, mixing two cultures can be difficult and sometimes painful, but racism, at whatever level, no matter how seemingly inconsequential, is always the result of ignorance and lack of tolerance and is always followed by verbal and physical aggression that begats similar aggression from the other side and rapidly degenerates into a vicious cycle.

Humanity, in my opinion, has always been most successful, and developed fastest, when cultures mix, and I believe our non-protestant Anglo Saxon Brits bring a tremendous amount to the table beyond making nice food, and populating our sports teams.

If other countries want to make themselves mono-cultural and mono-religious, that's up to them, and it's certainly the easier path; but I think those countries will be far worse off for that. And I guess that some would argue that an immigrant has no rights, so they should put up or go home. But the moment any country slips into persecution, the rest of the world has every right to speak out in protest.

Nice post but I see nothing wrong with countries that want to be mono-cultural or mono-religious. Muslim states certainly have no problem with it so why should anyone get bent out of shape if a European country wants to do the same?

Carbo
04-02-2008, 22:27
Nice post but I see nothing wrong with countries that want to be mono-cultural or mono-religious. Muslim states certainly have no problem with it so why should anyone get bent out of shape if a European country wants to do the same?
Yup, that's fine by me. Personally, I'd rather live in a country that wasn't, but if it floats other countries' boats, then that's their prerogative.