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rusmeister
05-08-2014, 19:54
RL took a quote out of context in the Russian section where I said I think that myths and fairy tales tell truths.

I'd like to offer a reenactment of a crucial conversation between JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis that contributed to Lewis's ultimate conversion to Christian faith. The discussion is recounted in some detail in Lewis's autobiographical sketch "Surprised by Joy".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBT39gx-TE

(I think that perhaps this might push RL to change his signature...)

Jas
05-08-2014, 22:50
Wow. Rusmeiseter is actually telling about interesting personages for once and not that little chesterson downclass. Case in point this CS Lewis what landed a disney contract some years back and they made his ideas into disney movies like lion witch and wardrobe which is good stuff actually. Hes probably a zillionaire and cud be the new JK Rowling, who knows. But by far the best was how to train ure dragon cos it's very very funny.

Benedikt
05-08-2014, 23:03
Wow. Rusmeiseter is actually telling about interesting personages for once and not that little chesterson downclass. Case in point this CS Lewis what landed a disney contract some years back and they made his ideas into disney movies like lion witch and wardrobe which is good stuff actually. Hes probably a zillionaire and cud be the new JK Rowling, who knows. But by far the best was how to train ure dragon cos it's very very funny.



and the way you write and post here, I wonder if you understand everything. or understand what Rusmeister means. Chesterton is for sure no downclass.

Jas
05-08-2014, 23:38
and the way you write and post here, I wonder if you understand everything. or understand what Rusmeister means. Chesterton is for sure no downclass.

I understand everything thanks and done the same iq test as what u did. I am just sayin that chesterton is no cs lewis and never had a smash hit and hes definetly no jk rowling also. At least everyone knows who aslan is and those narniya movies are as cool as say pochhontas or mulan but not as good as how to train ure dragon. Its better than shrek cos thats really for just kids.

rusmeister
05-08-2014, 23:41
Lewis died in 1963, didn't "land ANY contracts", would roll over in his grave at what Hollywood has made of his stories, gave much of his money away to people in need and lived very humbly, and is certainly NOT "a new JK Rowling" - Rowling might have been a new Lewis, but she doesn't even come close.
"How to Train Your Dragon" has nothing whatsoever to do with Lewis. (I watched it just the other day, by the way, and it is SO beneath Lewis that it is hardly worth mentioning.)

And yes, of course, Chesterton, and Shakespeare, and Aristotle, are all "underclass". Your dazzling novel will, no doubt, cause them all to be forgotten.

natlee
06-08-2014, 00:06
Wow. Rusmeiseter is actually telling about interesting personages for once and not that little chesterson downclass. :D

Jas
06-08-2014, 00:42
Lewis died in 1963, didn't "land ANY contracts", would roll over in his grave at what Hollywood has made of his stories, gave much of his money away to people in need and lived very humbly, and is certainly NOT "a new JK Rowling" - Rowling might have been a new Lewis, but she doesn't even come close.
"How to Train Your Dragon" has nothing whatsoever to do with Lewis. (I watched it just the other day, by the way, and it is SO beneath Lewis that it is hardly worth mentioning.)

And yes, of course, Chesterton, and Shakespeare, and Aristotle, are all "underclass". Your dazzling novel will, no doubt, cause them all to be forgotten.


No how to train ure dragon is better cos narnia is what u watch when ure like ten.
If ure so clever like ure telling then why did u put stuff about disney in the religion forum? Duh.

rusmeister
06-08-2014, 08:06
Show of hands - did anyone watch the short video?

Alan65
06-08-2014, 08:14
Show of hands - did anyone watch the short video?

What video.

rusmeister
06-08-2014, 16:34
What video.

This one:
Lewis and Tolkien Debate Myths and Lies - YouTube

MickeyTong
06-08-2014, 22:57
This one:


Nice one, Rus :applause::applause::applause:

I always appreciate the deft insertion of bathos, pathos and implied sarcasm into a dialogue. :10806:

Jas
06-08-2014, 23:37
Show of hands - did anyone watch the short video?

Well I didn't watch it cos u can just tell it's a nothing vid.

MickeyTong
06-08-2014, 23:38
I'd like to offer a reenactment of a crucial conversation between JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis that contributed to Lewis's ultimate conversion to Christian faith.

But why is Tolkien presented as a numpty? An ingénue knowing nothing about myths? Despite "The Hobbit", "Silmarillion", "Lord of the Rings" and being a scholar of Middle English very familiar with the thinking behind "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight"? Tolkien was a man immersed in pre-Reformation English concepts and mythos.

rusmeister
07-08-2014, 06:35
But why is Tolkien presented as a numpty? An ingénue knowing nothing about myths? Despite "The Hobbit", "Silmarillion", "Lord of the Rings" and being a scholar of Middle English very familiar with the thinking behind "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight"? Tolkien was a man immersed in pre-Reformation English concepts and mythos.

Uh, do you know about his being immersed in Scandinavian mythos, from Iceland to Finland? He wasn't limited exlusively to English of the Middle Ages.

Here they only depict the crucial point that ultimately convinced Lewis; that's why the actor depicting Lewis listens more than talks.

Not sure why you think Tolkien is presented as knowing nothing about myths.

rusmeister
07-08-2014, 06:45
Well I didn't watch it cos u can just tell it's a nothing vid.

Who was it, Zhdanov that said (in condemnation of Mikhail Zoschenko and Anna Akhmatova) "Я не читал, но осуждаю."?

Jas
07-08-2014, 09:09
Who was it, Zhdanov that said (in condemnation of Mikhail Zoschenko and Anna Akhmatova) "Я не читал, но осуждаю."?

Dunno who told like that but I think it was Putin when he told about yabloko like meaning anna alhmatova just reads and reads but she dunno how to discuss normal stuff with normal personages in the street like what putin can.

Suuryaa
07-08-2014, 18:18
Dunno who told like that but I think it was Putin when he told about yabloko like meaning anna alhmatova just reads and reads but she dunno how to discuss normal stuff with normal personages in the street like what putin can.

Rus, give up, you cannot say anything against such arguments.

MickeyTong
08-08-2014, 04:08
Uh, do you know about his being immersed in Scandinavian mythos, from Iceland to Finland? He wasn't limited exlusively to English of the Middle Ages.

Here they only depict the crucial point that ultimately convinced Lewis; that's why the actor depicting Lewis listens more than talks.

Not sure why you think Tolkien is presented as knowing nothing about myths.

Well that's me been teached. I thought the young guy was Tolkien and the pontificating baldy-man with all the words was Lewis.

rusmeister
08-08-2014, 07:06
Well that's me been teached. I thought the young guy was Tolkien and the pontificating baldy-man with all the words was Lewis.

No, it's the other way around. Tolkien was older and a lifelong Catholic. Their bios are interesting, really. I found an awesome 15-page summary on Tolkien somewhere; if I come across it, I'll pass it along. Perfect for the person who can't commit to a book but wants much more than a blurb.

Both lost their mothers early on, Tolkien lost his father when he was two, both were about 9-10 when their mothers died. Tolkien's mother had been disowned for converting from Anglican to Catholic, so Tolkien and his brother were raised by a Catholic priest. The story of Tolkien's courtship and marriage is a chapter in itself, and a rare ideal alien to us today of obedience to his guardian (to not see Edith until he was 21) followed by 60 years of happy marriage. His relationship with her was the inspiration for the story of Beren and Luthien (see "The Silmarillion").

Lewis was the atheist logician, though by the time of this conversation he had read Chesterton's "The Everlasting Man" and had pretty much abandoned atheism.

Anyway, a main point of this thread is how deeply (or rather, how shallowly) RL misunderstood what I was saying about myths, legends and fairy tales. The idea of Christ as the True Myth and its relation to pagan legends overturns the charges that Christian faith just recycles pagan ideas. We think the old pagans (as opposed to neo-pagans of today) "dreamed the truth". They apprehended ideas that really are real and have a true Source.
Or if you like, we see those charges as being like a claim that the existence of counterfeit banknotes disproves the existence of The Bank of (insert your nation here). If anything, they PROVE its existence.

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 19:24
Rus, I understand your context pretty well.:) By the way, I don't deny anything supernatural in this universe, everything is possible. The burden of proof if yours if you claim the Bible is the only Truth. So far, you haven't convinced me.
The Russian Orthodox Church seems to be nothing but an obedient collaborator with the authorities, at this stage, nothing else. Just another tool to dupe the idiots around you into complacent obedience. I am sure they will bless whatever is being done. Well, guess it has always been like that.

rusmeister
16-08-2014, 23:04
Rus, I understand your context pretty well.:) By the way, I don't deny anything supernatural in this universe, everything is possible. The burden of proof if yours if you claim the Bible is the only Truth. So far, you haven't convinced me.
The Russian Orthodox Church seems to be nothing but an obedient collaborator with the authorities, at this stage, nothing else. Just another tool to dupe the idiots around you into complacent obedience. I am sure they will bless whatever is being done. Well, guess it has always been like that.


if you claim the Bible is the only Truth

Do you think there are multiple and contradictry Truths? That the Earth and universe was created by a deity or deities AND appeared out of nothing, AND that a formless blob of matter existed from all eternity just sitting there until it went kablooey in a "Big Bang", and so on? How many Truths do you think there are?

If you really understood my context, you wouldn't be holding up a truncated contextless quote of me in your signature. Ergo, you DON'T understand my context.

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 23:23
Ergo, you DON'T understand my context.

Whatever

rusmeister
11-09-2014, 20:29
No, it's the other way around. Tolkien was older and a lifelong Catholic. Their bios are interesting, really. I found an awesome 15-page summary on Tolkien somewhere; if I come across it, I'll pass it along. Perfect for the person who can't commit to a book but wants much more than a blurb.


Hey, Mickey, I found one: I think it's the same one:

http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/tolkien/bio.html