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Benedikt
31-07-2014, 07:42
http://news.yahoo.com/us-restocks-israel-ammunition-015126465.html

-and White House decision was not required-. said the general. nice!

Judge
31-07-2014, 10:05
Pathetic isn't Ben,so they condemn Israel cos they are killing innocent people and then they supply them with more weapons....

Benedikt
31-07-2014, 10:16
Pathetic isn't Ben,so they condemn Israel cos they are killing innocent people and then they supply them with more weapons....



or gets the news from the morning briefing.and he is supposed to be the commander in chief. while for sure they will not ask him for every bullet fired, an instance like that for sure should need presidential approvements?
shows how strong the arms / army/aramament Jewish lobby is over there.

here VV sends arms to the separatists ( right or wrong is another story) but it came right from the top and not by some general. and the world screams blue murder.

Judge
31-07-2014, 10:28
or gets the news from the morning briefing.and he is supposed to be the commander in chief.

According to Fantastika,Obama doesn't get out of bed until 11am and then goes and plays a round of golf:cool:


while for sure they will not ask him for every bullet fired, an instance like that for sure should need presidential approvements?
Was it also an American made bomb that landing on the UN-run school...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/world-disgrace-gaza-un-shelter-school-israel


'The world stands disgraced' - Israeli shelling of school kills at least 15



shows how strong the arms / army/aramament Jewish lobby is over there.

Probably,I'm not sure, but you would expect questions to be asked when a country puts in an order for more weapons while at the same that country is bombing innocent civilians..

okiey
31-07-2014, 11:08
What is going on in Palestine is criminal and openly supported by the US. Bombing innocent women and children. There is no excuse.

An interesting map doing the rounds recently.

http://www.wsm.ie/c/if-ireland-was-treated-palestine-alternate-history

Benedikt
31-07-2014, 11:26
What is going on in Palestine is criminal and openly supported by the US. Bombing innocent women and children. There is no excuse.

An interesting map doing the rounds recently.

http://www.wsm.ie/c/if-ireland-was-treated-palestine-alternate-history


http://orf.at/stories/2240039/

looks like there is going to be a full-scale war there. nice...

Benedikt
31-07-2014, 11:33
[QUOTE=Judge;1333118]According to Fantastika,Obama doesn't get out of bed until 11am and then goes and plays a round of golf:cool:


Was it also an American made bomb that landing on the UN-run school...



and they want to impeach him now....
http://www.orf.at/#/stories/2240034/
nice place over there...
If I was him, I would tell them, stick the job where the sun does not shine. and write the memoirs, but what really happened, with no censorship or lines crossed out. the press, yellow and other, will bend over three times. and Obama will be rolling in dough for the rest of his live and so will be his kids.
and a few general and advisors and hangers-on wished they were never in the White House.

quincy
31-07-2014, 13:04
Pathetic isn't Ben,so they condemn Israel cos they are killing innocent people and then they supply them with more weapons....

The weight of world opinion is so huge that they had to say something after three weeks of bombing and shelling otherwise they will lose the little credibility they have left, resupplying Israel means it was just for PR

In contrast Russia is being condemned 24 hours a day by Obama and Merkel and their media channels, without waiting for evidence on MH17, but not Poroshenko's daily bombing and shelling

Benedikt
31-07-2014, 22:49
The weight of world opinion is so huge that they had to say something after three weeks of bombing and shelling otherwise they will lose the little credibility they have left, resupplying Israel means it was just for PR

In contrast Russia is being condemned 24 hours a day by Obama and Merkel and their media channels, without waiting for evidence on MH17, but not Poroshenko's daily bombing and shelling



he would have had no problems and instead being applauded on the world stage and the UN.

Fantastika
31-07-2014, 23:14
http://news.yahoo.com/us-restocks-israel-ammunition-015126465.html

-and White House decision was not required-. said the general. nice!

Nice to know Obama is out of the loop. I can see him blackmailing Israel by refusing to supply ammo.

Fantastika
31-07-2014, 23:18
What is going on in Palestine is criminal and openly supported by the US. Bombing innocent women and children. There is no excuse.

An interesting map doing the rounds recently.

http://www.wsm.ie/c/if-ireland-was-treated-palestine-alternate-history

C'mon Okiey, Hamas is storing their missiles in schools, in mosques and in hospitals. What kind of madmen put missiles in schools and hospitals? How are you supposed to react to it? I talked to a Vietnam Vet who said a little boy pointed a rifle at him there, so he shot him first. It's basic survival - kill or be killed. If 12-year-olds are pointing guns at you, or madmen are shooting missiles from hospitals, than you have to counterattack your enemy, if you want to survive. It's a war. Hamas has one immediate goal - the destruction of Israel. If Israel goes, who's next? US, and Russia, too. Israel would be criminally negligent if they refused to confront an enemy who will not compromise, will not communicate, who refuses to recognize their right to even exist. Hamas is always in a state of war against Israel. Any cease-fire, or pause, is just a time to re-arm, to get more missiles, to dig more tunnels. To me it's incredible that they can get 1000's of missiles hidden there in that tiny enclave, spending all their aid on weapons while starving their people.

TolkoRaz
31-07-2014, 23:46
Point to note - Hamas has broken nearly every recent ceasefire!

They are trying to encourage Fatah & The West Bank to align with them and have the 3rd Intifadah!

okiey
01-08-2014, 00:15
Fantastika, Tolka, I agree that now Israel has no choice but to launch this offensive.

The survival of the Israeli state depends on it

The blood of the children lies with Hamas, who has no regard at all for human life.

The point I was alluding to was the root of all this conflict, and for that, Israel has to assume responsibility. For the past 60 years the Palestinians have had their land taken to the point where 1.5 million are corralled into a tiny strip of land.

I fear the West Bank will suffer the same fate.

The Gaza strip is just one giant refugee camp that is too small and isolated to become a viable state.

Lets face these people have little hope for the future and nothing to lose.

I wonder many of the Jewish population are indigenous to the region? An awful were planted there from Eastern Europe after WW11 and more again after the Soviet collapse.

The Palestinians lost there land to outsiders mostly, who claim some historic religious claim thousands of years old to that land. That's a bitter pill for the Palestinians to swallow.

Up until WW11 large numbers of Jews, Christians and Muslims lives side by side since Antiquity across the region.

Now the whole thing is a sectarian mess.

Fantastika
01-08-2014, 00:23
Fantastika, Tolka, I agree that now Israel has no choice but to launch this offensive.

The survival of the Israeli state depends on it

The blood of the children lies with Hamas, who has no regard at all for human life.

The point I was alluding to was the root of all this conflict, and for that, Israel has to assume responsibility. For the past 60 years the Palestinians have had their land taken to the point where 1.5 million are corralled into a tiny strip of land.

I fear the West Bank will suffer the same fate.

The Gaza strip is just one giant refugee camp that is too small and isolated to become a viable state.

Lets face these people have little hope for the future and nothing to lose.

I wonder many of the Jewish population are indigenous to the region? An awful were planted there from Eastern Europe after WW11 and more again after the Soviet collapse.

The Palestinians lost there land to outsiders mostly, who claim some historic religious claim thousands of years old to that land. That's a bitter pill for the Palestinians to swallow.

Up until WW11 large numbers of Jews, Christians and Muslims lives side by side since Antiquity across the region.

Now the whole thing is a sectarian mess.

I thought that at one time, the other Arab states pushed these people into Israel-occupied land, maybe it was after the 6-day war?

They do have a legitimate point about their land being taken.

Their "friends" - Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc., don't offer them any of their land, or do any refugee resettlement programs, they only give them weapons.

Makes me start pondering about the land belonging to people who live there - East Ukraine, Mexicans in California, Wuigher's in West China.

Too much pondering, my brain is going to break!

TolkoRaz
01-08-2014, 00:37
Saudi Arabia? I do not think they give Hamas any weapons!

Fantastika, If you are genuinely interested in the ME and the relationship between The KSA and the Palestinians / Hamas, this might interest you:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/saudi-arabias-crocodile-tears-over-gaza-1866358040

Do not forget that the KSA's biggest enemy or threat is Iran who is the main supplier of arms / missiles to Hamas....

Fantastika
01-08-2014, 00:51
Saudi Arabia? I do not think they give Hamas any weapons!

Fantastika, If you are genuinely interested in the ME and the relationship between The KSA and the Palestinians / Hamas, this might interest you:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/saudi-arabias-crocodile-tears-over-gaza-1866358040

Do not forget that the KSA's biggest enemy or threat is Iran who is the main supplier of arms / missiles to Hamas....

When I think of Saudi Arabia, I think of a loosely-ruled kingdom, and there are many billionaires, and they are spending money of their own on their "pet projects" - I think that's where Obama, I mean Osama Bin Laden got his funding for his 9/11 project, and to support his jihad movement in other countries.

Have to read URL later, gotta go to post office.

TolkoRaz
01-08-2014, 00:57
A loosley-ruled Kingdom it is not, but I read between the lines and I think I understand what you mean!

Qatar is more likely sending funds and possibly weapons to Hamas, or certainly used to! ;)

Until recently, Hamas had an official office in Qatar - I used to pass it frequently (very quickly!) ;)

Fantastika
01-08-2014, 04:35
Saudi Arabia? I do not think they give Hamas any weapons!

Fantastika, If you are genuinely interested in the ME and the relationship between The KSA and the Palestinians / Hamas, this might interest you:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/saudi-arabias-crocodile-tears-over-gaza-1866358040

Do not forget that the KSA's biggest enemy or threat is Iran who is the main supplier of arms / missiles to Hamas....

Too bad we can't send them all to Mars. Well, that's too close, how about Alpha Centauri.

I have met Saudi's and Iranians. I always considered Iranians pretty level-headed. I don't understand why US has such a close relationship with Saudi Arabia, especially after 9/11. They would be much better off with a good relationship with Iran.

http://www.fairbrothers.com/paris.jpg

Lugansk? No, Paris suburb, after the Palestinian rioters.

Periwinkle
01-08-2014, 10:53
Nice to know Obama is out of the loop. I can see him blackmailing Israel by refusing to supply ammo.

Would it really be blackmailing or the right thing to do? The US government is cornered by AIPAC.....whatever they want they get. The US news media is very Israel friendly, as otherwise the anti defamation league is on them. As supposedly, reporting things from a non biased viewpoint is defamation.

I would prefer Obama stand up to AIPAC and Israel as he is not due another term. What is going on in Gaza is horrible. Israel appears to be trying to make Gaza uninhabitable and spread as much terror as they can. Civilians it seems are often targeted deliberately to create and atmosphere of fear. There appear to be no safe zones in Gaza.

okiey
01-08-2014, 17:26
Top story on BBC right now: Gaza militants 'seize Israeli soldier' as ceasefire ends

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28606099

Hundreds of innocent children killed, and the seizure of a trained killer on a foreign offensive steals the top news headline.

What a sad world we live in.

How many children in Gaza does it take to equal the life of an Israeli soldier?

fenrir
01-08-2014, 17:35
Top story on BBC right now: Gaza militants 'seize Israeli soldier' as ceasefire ends

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28606099

Hundreds of innocent children killed, and the seizure of a trained killer on a foreign offensive steals the top news headline.

What a sad world we live in.

How many children in Gaza does it take to equal the life of an Israeli soldier?

Hundreds of children who served their purpose of being used as human shields. It is Hamas who is guilty for their deaths.

quincy
01-08-2014, 17:40
Top story on BBC right now: Gaza militants 'seize Israeli soldier' as ceasefire ends

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28606099

Hundreds of innocent children killed, and the seizure of a trained killer on a foreign offensive steals the top news headline.

What a sad world we live in.

How many children in Gaza does it take to equal the life of an Israeli soldier?

The hypocrisy is shocking. The Western media is a controlled media - geopolitics is everything, human rights or international law become irrelevant if the violator is pro-western

Alan65
01-08-2014, 17:48
The hypocrisy is shocking. The Western media is a controlled media - geopolitics is everything, human rights or international law become irrelevant if the violator is pro-western

Hey...how about this for a whataboutism....who is arming Assad in Syria where over 140k have been killed.

Gaza is peanuts compared to this.

okiey
01-08-2014, 17:58
Hundreds of children who served their purpose of being used as human shields. It is Hamas who is guilty for their deaths.

Over the last 60 years the Israelis have driven Palestinians from their homes and stolen and settled their land. The result today is that Gaza is a tiny strip of territory where 1.8 mln Palestinians have been corralled and hemmed into an area 40 km long by about 7 wide.

Where are the children supposed to run to? Jerusalem, Tel Aviv?

Rambo or Chuck Norris might well dodge the rockets and shelling there; but for most civilians no matter where you run to, its simply out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Israel has called up 86,000 reservists for the operation in this tiny strip of land ... and you have the audacity to say Hamas are using children as a shield!

Its shameful and Israel should be boycotted for it actions and anyone else who supports it.

okiey
01-08-2014, 18:00
The war in Syria is at least balanced somewhat, not shooting fish in a barrel (or in the Israeli case, children)


Hey...how about this for a whataboutism....who is arming Assad in Syria where over 140k have been killed.

Gaza is peanuts compared to this.

fenrir
02-08-2014, 09:24
The war in Syria is at least balanced somewhat, not shooting fish in a barrel (or in the Israeli case, children)

That makes it all okay then, righ? Keep on killing lads. Okiey says the situation is balanced.

fenrir
02-08-2014, 09:26
Over the last 60 years the Israelis have driven Palestinians from their homes and stolen and settled their land. The result today is that Gaza is a tiny strip of territory where 1.8 mln Palestinians have been corralled and hemmed into an area 40 km long by about 7 wide.

Where are the children supposed to run to? Jerusalem, Tel Aviv?

Rambo or Chuck Norris might well dodge the rockets and shelling there; but for most civilians no matter where you run to, its simply out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Israel has called up 86,000 reservists for the operation in this tiny strip of land ... and you have the audacity to say Hamas are using children as a shield!

Its shameful and Israel should be boycotted for it actions and anyone else who supports it.

When you store rockets in schools, mosques and hospitals, you make all those places legitimate targets. That's one of the facts of life in war.

Periwinkle
02-08-2014, 12:26
Hundreds of children who served their purpose of being used as human shields. It is Hamas who is guilty for their deaths.

We only have Israels word saying they are human shields. They said the same thing in lebananon to destroy villages, as militants lived there ie the men with guns came from those villages and they were their homes. Same in Gaza destroying homes. I suppose that makes it ok to destroy Isreali homes or anywhere a soldier goes. Soldiers go home in Israel too. Though it seems the Israelis are just bombing houses of Hamas members, whoever is home and the Hamas guys often are not just the families.
There seem to be many cases of targeting children, the children playing on the beach in full view of journalists, children feeding pigeons, families sleeping in a shelter the UN told the Israelis seventeen times that it was a shelter....
Human shields is just a cop out.

I agree with what was said earlier, countries seem very focused on Russian involvement in Ukraine but not on Israel in Gaza.
And please do not make the rocket excuse, the rockets have done little damage and are mostly useless homemade things, nothing compared to what the most powerful military in the Middle East has, that being Israel.. The rockets are in response to recent round ups of Palestinians to detention centers and the ongoing Israeli economic blockade.

fenrir
02-08-2014, 13:12
We only have Israels word saying they are human shields. They said the same thing in lebananon to destroy villages, as militants lived there ie the men with guns came from those villages and they were their homes. Same in Gaza destroying homes. I suppose that makes it ok to destroy Isreali homes or anywhere a soldier goes. Soldiers go home in Israel too. Though it seems the Israelis are just bombing houses of Hamas members, whoever is home and the Hamas guys often are not just the families.
There seem to be many cases of targeting children, the children playing on the beach in full view of journalists, children feeding pigeons, families sleeping in a shelter the UN told the Israelis seventeen times that it was a shelter....
Human shields is just a cop out.

I agree with what was said earlier, countries seem very focused on Russian involvement in Ukraine but not on Israel in Gaza.
And please do not make the rocket excuse, the rockets have done little damage and are mostly useless homemade things, nothing compared to what the most powerful military in the Middle East has, that being Israel.. The rockets are in response to recent round ups of Palestinians to detention centers and the ongoing Israeli economic blockade.

Human shields is not a copout, it's a war crime. It also doesn't excuse terrible incidents, but they happen in war. It comes with the territory.

I love the 'rocket excuse' comment. No other country would allow such attacks on its territory without a harsh response, but of course, you think the JEWS should react differently from everyone else. And i have already posted a link that showed that many of those rockets are professionally made in Syria and Iran.

Periwinkle
02-08-2014, 14:02
Human shields is not a copout, it's a war crime. It also doesn't excuse terrible incidents, but they happen in war. It comes with the territory.

I love the 'rocket excuse' comment. No other country would allow such attacks on its territory without a harsh response, but of course, you think the JEWS should react differently from everyone else. And i have already posted a link that showed that many of those rockets are professionally made in Syria and Iran.

The rockets do little damage, if Israel was not rounding up people, continuing an damaging economic blockade, continuing collective punishment against the people of Gaza, there would not be rockets. The rockets are a response not a random occurrence.
No, I do not think Jews should behave differently than others, nor should they get away with murder because of the holocaust.
Israel gets a get out of jail free card all the time.
The 'human shields' are just an excuse as there are no 'human shields' it is a heavily populated area and there are many cases of civilian deaths that had nothing to do with Hamas members being among them.
Israel is trying to do as much damage as it can before the world finally wakes up and says enough. It's choice of targets are interesting, create as much terror as it can and damage as much infrastructure as it can, to make the place as uninhabitable as possible.
Rather than doing the sensible and humane thing, which was lift the blockade, which it was agreed years ago and conveniently ignored.
A healthy and viable economy would do much more for peace then continuing destruction of the economy, people's homes and livelihoods. The Israeli military is a great recruiter for more militant groups.
Of course Israel is not too interested in peace, as noted from its still creeping colonization and confiscation of water on the West Bank.
And I am part Jewish, so do not play the old anti Semite line. Israel gets away with way too much because people, are afraid to speak out.

Fantastika
02-08-2014, 14:06
I would prefer Obama stand up to AIPAC and Israel as he is not due another term. What is going on in Gaza is horrible....


US doesn't really have a president. Yes, there's a guy who sleeps (until 10:00) in the White House, but then he's out for a campaign speech, a fund-raiser, or a round of golf, dinner in New York...

When a crisis or scandal develops, the Prez was out of the house and just driving by - similar to like if you were driving your car, and you saw an accident with police cars with their flashing lights, or a house fire. You're curious so you slow down, and look at the accident. You're just "driving by" the scene.

This is how Obama handles an international crisis or national scandal. "Hey, I was just driving by. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I saw it, but ask Joe Biden, ask John Kerry, I don't know nothing, don't bother me..."

It's never his fault, it's never his responsibility.

We call him the "drive-by" president.

Fantastika
02-08-2014, 14:11
Ramadan Bombathon 2014:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com


http://www.fairbrothers.com/expatphotos/mohamed-elomar-aus.jpg

fenrir
02-08-2014, 15:06
The rockets do little damage, if Israel was not rounding up people, continuing an damaging economic blockade, continuing collective punishment against the people of Gaza, there would not be rockets. The rockets are a response not a random occurrence.
No, I do not think Jews should behave differently than others, nor should they get away with murder because of the holocaust.
Israel gets a get out of jail free card all the time.
The 'human shields' are just an excuse as there are no 'human shields' it is a heavily populated area and there are many cases of civilian deaths that had nothing to do with Hamas members being among them.
Israel is trying to do as much damage as it can before the world finally wakes up and says enough. It's choice of targets are interesting, create as much terror as it can and damage as much infrastructure as it can, to make the place as uninhabitable as possible.
Rather than doing the sensible and humane thing, which was lift the blockade, which it was agreed years ago and conveniently ignored.
A healthy and viable economy would do much more for peace then continuing destruction of the economy, people's homes and livelihoods. The Israeli military is a great recruiter for more militant groups.
Of course Israel is not too interested in peace, as noted from its still creeping colonization and confiscation of water on the West Bank.
And I am part Jewish, so do not play the old anti Semite line. Israel gets away with way too much because people, are afraid to speak out.

If Hamas can dig deep tunnels to kidnap Israeli soldiers and send in terrorists, then they can dig deep tunnels to hide their missiles instead of putting them in schools, mosques and hospitals. Makes sense, right? Don't forget that Egypt is also blockading Gaza (why aren't you condemning them?). Finally, if Hamas spent all the money and resources they do on the rocket campaign on economic development instead, the Gaza Strip would be a totally different place.

As an afterthought, it also might help if Hamas dropped the part of its charter that calls for the destruction of Israel.

TolkoRaz
02-08-2014, 15:34
Hamas seized power in a very bloody coup; they are extremists of the highest order and need decimating.

However, life must be so miserable for the average Palestinian who does not support Hamas, but who 'lives' in Gaza by force of circumstance.

Get rid of Hamas and life for the Palestinian would markedly improve.

Periwinkle
02-08-2014, 16:13
If Hamas can dig deep tunnels to kidnap Israeli soldiers and send in terrorists, then they can dig deep tunnels to hide their missiles instead of putting them in schools, mosques and hospitals. Makes sense, right? Don't forget that Egypt is also blockading Gaza (why aren't you condemning them?). Finally, if Hamas spent all the money and resources they do on the rocket campaign on economic development instead, the Gaza Strip would be a totally different place.

As an afterthought, it also might help if Hamas dropped the part of its charter that calls for the destruction of Israel.

I did not realize this thread was also about Egypt and I needed to put in a special condemnation of them. They are not blockading Gaza, they have closed the exits to Egypt, only after an arrangement with Israel I believe. Israel is welcome to deny access to Israel of people from Gaza, if it so choses, denying Gazans, imports and exports via sea and air is another matter. Why include, toys, food, medicine , clothing and building materials in the blockade? To squeeze the people seems to be the only reason or do you have another? Are aspirins, toy cars and shirts dangerous?
There is a reason for the tunnels besides weapons, all goods come in and out via the tunnels.
The soldier captured was in southern Gaza not Israel. The previous soldier a few years ago I do not recall, he may have been in Israel.
Yes, Hamas has that in its charter, Israel does not have official borders, both are for a reason.
Hamas is a recent occurrence and it was helped along by Israel who encouraged its growth as a way to create division and minimize Fatah.
Hamas has helped the people of Gaza, though schools, hospitals, sports and other clubs....it is just a bit hard to develop economically when you are not allowed any exports out and imports in, including materials for building, they must come through tunnels.
I remember when the blockade began and Palestinian farmers had boatloads of strawberries rotting that were not able to be shipped.
Recently, I read how many former farmers work the tunnels, needs must if you have a family to feed and your whole economy is under siege. A lot of agricultural land has also been confiscated by Israel.
So please do not blame Hamas for the state of the economy.
Religious extremism often comes about when people are desperate and hopeless. I expect Gaza will become a lot more extreme after this, it has been a gradual process.
I remember seeing photos of southern Palestine around 1880 to the early 1900's, people have become much more conservative in dress, it seems even in the past twenty or so years. Israel encouraged the rise of Hamas, and I cynically believe it was because Hamas was a better boogeyman than Fatah which was much more conciliatory at the time and still is.

Periwinkle
02-08-2014, 16:16
Hamas seized power in a very bloody coup; they are extremists of the highest order and need decimating.

However, life must be so miserable for the average Palestinian who does not support Hamas, but who 'lives' in Gaza by force of circumstance.

Get rid of Hamas and life for the Palestinian would markedly improve.

Really, it was a democratic election:) Hamas was helped along by Israel who had a habit of jailing Fatah members,..

quincy
02-08-2014, 18:49
Really, it was a democratic election:) Hamas was helped along by Israel who had a habit of jailing Fatah members,..

yes it has been reported that Israel helped Hamas in the early years in order to undermine the secular Arafat. Not the first time Islamism has been exploited! Clinton formed an unofficial alliance with Islamic extremists to help the breakup of Yugoslavia

TolkoRaz
02-08-2014, 19:12
Really, it was a democratic election:) Hamas was helped along by Israel who had a habit of jailing Fatah members,..

Hamas (Arabic: حماس‎ Ḥamās, "enthusiasm", an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, "Islamic Resistance Movement") is a Palestinian Sunni Islamic[7] organization, with an associated military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades,[8] in the Palestinian territories and elsewhere in the Middle East including Qatar.[9] Since 2007, it has governed the Gaza Strip, after it won a majority of seats in the Palestinian Parliament in the 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections[10] and defeated the Fatah political organization in a series of violent clashes. Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States,[11] the United Kingdom,[12] Canada,[13] the European Union,[14][15] Jordan,[16] Egypt[17] and Japan.[18] However its not a terrorist organisation in other states, including Iran, Russia,[19] Turkey,[20] China[21][22][23][24] and many Arab nations.

Hamas threw key members of the Fatah leadership off a very high roof to their deaths!

Periwinkle
02-08-2014, 21:18
Hamas (Arabic: حماس‎ Ḥamās, "enthusiasm", an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, "Islamic Resistance Movement") is a Palestinian Sunni Islamic[7] organization, with an associated military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades,[8] in the Palestinian territories and elsewhere in the Middle East including Qatar.[9] Since 2007, it has governed the Gaza Strip, after it won a majority of seats in the Palestinian Parliament in the 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections[10] and defeated the Fatah political organization in a series of violent clashes. Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States,[11] the United Kingdom,[12] Canada,[13] the European Union,[14][15] Jordan,[16] Egypt[17] and Japan.[18] However its not a terrorist organisation in other states, including Iran, Russia,[19] Turkey,[20] China[21][22][23][24] and many Arab nations.

Hamas threw key members of the Fatah leadership off a very high roof to their deaths!

Have not heard that will look into it.
As they say though, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
Such as many of the early leaders of Israel were wanted by the British as terrorists, blowing up a hotel, barrel bombs in Palestinian towns, massacres of Palestinian civilians, oh the old glory days. Yitzak Shamir, Menachem Begin, belonged to terrorist organizations.

Well will leave you all now, need some rest. Those who support the aggressors, and those who do not, goodnight.

fenrir
02-08-2014, 21:25
I did not realize this thread was also about Egypt and I needed to put in a special condemnation of them. They are not blockading Gaza, they have closed the exits to Egypt, only after an arrangement with Israel I believe. Israel is welcome to deny access to Israel of people from Gaza, if it so choses, denying Gazans, imports and exports via sea and air is another matter. Why include, toys, food, medicine , clothing and building materials in the blockade? To squeeze the people seems to be the only reason or do you have another? Are aspirins, toy cars and shirts dangerous?
There is a reason for the tunnels besides weapons, all goods come in and out via the tunnels.
The soldier captured was in southern Gaza not Israel. The previous soldier a few years ago I do not recall, he may have been in Israel.
Yes, Hamas has that in its charter, Israel does not have official borders, both are for a reason.
Hamas is a recent occurrence and it was helped along by Israel who encouraged its growth as a way to create division and minimize Fatah.
Hamas has helped the people of Gaza, though schools, hospitals, sports and other clubs....it is just a bit hard to develop economically when you are not allowed any exports out and imports in, including materials for building, they must come through tunnels.
I remember when the blockade began and Palestinian farmers had boatloads of strawberries rotting that were not able to be shipped.
Recently, I read how many former farmers work the tunnels, needs must if you have a family to feed and your whole economy is under siege. A lot of agricultural land has also been confiscated by Israel.
So please do not blame Hamas for the state of the economy.
Religious extremism often comes about when people are desperate and hopeless. I expect Gaza will become a lot more extreme after this, it has been a gradual process.
I remember seeing photos of southern Palestine around 1880 to the early 1900's, people have become much more conservative in dress, it seems even in the past twenty or so years. Israel encouraged the rise of Hamas, and I cynically believe it was because Hamas was a better boogeyman than Fatah which was much more conciliatory at the time and still is.

Hamas has two tunnel systems. The first is on the Egyptian border to smuggle in goods, materials and weapons because Egypt is helping Israel blockade them. The second tunnel system leads into Israel to conduct terror/kidnap missions.

okiey
02-08-2014, 22:19
And isn't it the sad day when they have to "smuggle" in basic goods for their survival !!!



Hamas has two tunnel systems. The first is on the Egyptian border to smuggle in goods, materials and weapons because Egypt is helping Israel blockade them. The second tunnel system leads into Israel to conduct terror/kidnap missions.

MickeyTong
03-08-2014, 05:21
And isn't it the sad day when they have to "smuggle" in basic goods for their survival !!!

Hey, Okiey - it's more than they deserve. These untermensch need to understand the natural order and stop objecting to being dispossessed, disenfranchised, deligitimised, and herded into ghettoes where bare survival is the best they can hope for. A pogrom every few years should remind them of their place. It's the only language they understand.

Can you imagine what would happen if coons in America insisted on being treated like human beings deserving of respect? Or Fenians in Northern Ireland? Or women arrogating equal rights with men? Such things would undermine the natural order - anarchy and miscegenation would be the result, and we would all be living in caves.

No!!!! These creatures need to be given a good slap on a regular basis to remind them of their inferiority and encourage them to be grateful when we don't slap them and throw them a few scraps. They cannot understand that Order and Purity must be maintained.

Chumbawamba - That's how grateful we are (Hungary 1956) - YouTube

Fantastika
03-08-2014, 06:29
Can you imagine what would happen if coons in America insisted on being treated like human beings deserving of respect?

Your comment is more than a little offensive, but i don't see how to flag it.

One time I applied for position as computer programmer - there were 2 applicants - myself, with 4-year degree in Computer Engineering, and a secretary, high-school dropout, black, who had taken 180 (paid) "sick" days off in the past year. My supervisor had advised of this job opening, seems it was well hidden. With only 5 days exposure.

The black over-boss selected the dropout, and told me I was to "get her up to speed," that is, do my job, and instruct her how to do my job.

The first day she called in sick. the second day she called in sick. The third day, she came in, 2 hours late, and spent several hours on the phone talking loudly to her friends (as she always did on the days she showed up), and disrupting me. Finally, I told her (never mind what I told her) anyway, I had had enough.

Do you think I gave her enough "respect"?

Fantastika
03-08-2014, 06:32
And isn't it the sad day when they have to "smuggle" in basic goods for their survival !!!

Well, you can spend $100,000 for a missile, or you can spend $100,000 on food.

fenrir
03-08-2014, 09:40
And isn't it the sad day when they have to "smuggle" in basic goods for their survival !!!

They're not doing too badly considering they rank 8th in world overweight population rankings (see wikipedia). And did you notice how many cars are on Gazan streets?

TolkoRaz
03-08-2014, 11:38
They're not doing too badly considering they rank 8th in world overweight population rankings (see wikipedia). And did you notice how many cars are on Gazan streets?

There are now quite a few less, but there is also an increase in Israeli tracked vehicles!

Periwinkle
03-08-2014, 17:09
They're not doing too badly considering they rank 8th in world overweight population rankings (see wikipedia). And did you notice how many cars are on Gazan streets?

Oh lord they have cars!!!!!!
Stop them now!!
They must not be allowed to drive, not the untermenchen!
No cars for them!
Keep bombing them, the cars, the apartment buildings, the water plant, the sanitation workers, the children on playgrounds, the people queuing for food, the hospitals, the power plant, etc
All must be bombed.
Fools to think they can live like everyone else.
How dare they have cars, they have been under an economic embargo/siege since 2007! Cars were not invented till 2008!

In other news, it seems that our brave Israeli soldier who was supposedly, 'kidnapped' not captured as most soldiers are, was actually shot by friendly fire....hmmmmm
Seems someone wanted to keep on bombing Gaza back into the Stone Age......

fenrir
03-08-2014, 17:26
Oh lord they have cars!!!!!!
Stop them now!!
They must not be allowed to drive, not the untermenchen!
No cars for them!
Keep bombing them, the cars, the apartment buildings, the water plant, the sanitation workers, the children on playgrounds, the people queuing for food, the hospitals, the power plant, etc
All must be bombed.
Fools to think they can live like everyone else.
How dare they have cars, they have been under an economic embargo/siege since 2007! Cars were not invented till 2008!

In other news, it seems that our brave Israeli soldier who was supposedly, 'kidnapped' not captured as most soldiers are, was actually shot by friendly fire....hmmmmm
Seems someone wanted to keep on bombing Gaza back into the Stone Age......

Are you an i---t, or just trying hard to look like one? I responded to a post that stated the Palestinians were smuggling to 'survive.' I pointed out that they have a high level of obesity and cars, thus they are doing much more than just trying to survive. Got it?

Periwinkle
03-08-2014, 17:58
[QUOTE=fenrir;1334024]Are you an i---t, or just trying hard to look like one? I responded to a post that stated the Palestinians were smuggling to 'survive.' I pointed out that they have a high level of obesity and cars, thus they are doing much more than just trying to survive. Got it?[/

It is called sarcasm, as I am sure you know.

I think it may be only a percentage of the older generation that is overweight, as people in most photos look rather slim overall. And wiki is well what it is, as I am sure you also know.
I doubt the bombing of the sports complex will help the massive obesity crisis that Gaza is experiencing.... Though, I have yet to see evidence of that problem.

As for the cars, I see plenty of cars on the streets of poor African countries, does that not mean they have an overall poorer standard of living? How do cars come into it, does it depend on the make, the number, do tell?
And as I pointed out, which you ignored, they may have been mostly imported prior to the embargo rather than via the tunnels. Also, the streets in Gaza tend to be rather crowded with people, cars and animal carts, not exactly zipping along super highways, are they? Of course it seems only ambulances are in action much these days....

So, oh wise one, any thoughts on the latest Israeli lie? About the 'kidnapped soldier'?

MickeyTong
03-08-2014, 18:28
They're not doing too badly considering they rank 8th in world overweight population rankings (see wikipedia). And did you notice how many cars are on Gazan streets?

The norm in Gaza was described in detail by the heroic Norwegian trauma surgeon Mads Gilbert, who has worked in Gaza’s main hospital through Israel’s most grotesque crimes and returned again for the current onslaught. In June 2014, immediately before the latest Israeli onslaught, he submitted a report on the Gaza health sector to UNRWA, the UN Agency that tries desperately, on a shoestring, to care for refugees.

“At least 57 % of Gaza households are food insecure and about 80 % are now aid recipients,” Gilbert reports. “Food insecurity and rising poverty also mean that most residents cannot meet their daily caloric requirements, while over 90 % of the water in Gaza has been deemed unfit for human consumption,” a situation that is becoming even worse as Israel again attacks water and sewage systems, leaving over a million people with even more severe disruption of the barest necessity of life.

Gilbert reports that “Palestinian children in Gaza are suffering immensely. A large proportion are affected by the man-made malnourishment regime caused by the Israeli imposed blockage. Prevalence of anaemia in children <2yrs in Gaza is at 72.8%, while prevalence of wasting, stunting, underweight have been documented at 34.3%, 31.4%, 31.45% respectively.”

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/outrage/

Periwinkle
04-08-2014, 11:20
Thanks Mickey....
It seems many Americans get their view from the US press (understandably) but few US media outlets, the CS Monitor being one of the few, give a non Israeli centered view of Israeli/Palestinian issues.
I am shocked at how many Americans seem to think Hamas is cowering in hospitals and shelters among crowds of women and children. The typical response by Israeli bots is oh, then Hamas should not be among the:
People sleeping in the shelter
Children on the playground
Children playing on the beach
Children feeding pigeons
People queuing for food
When in fact they are not but that is the general perception of the mass civilian casualties...
It seems the Israeli line in much use since Lebanon is 'human shields' a nice cover up, for what now appears to be deliberate attacks on civilians to increase terror.

MickeyTong
04-08-2014, 12:09
Your comment is more than a little offensive, but i don't see how to flag it.

One time I applied for position as computer programmer - there were 2 applicants - myself, with 4-year degree in Computer Engineering, and a secretary, high-school dropout, black, who had taken 180 (paid) "sick" days off in the past year. My supervisor had advised of this job opening, seems it was well hidden. With only 5 days exposure.

The black over-boss selected the dropout, and told me I was to "get her up to speed," that is, do my job, and instruct her how to do my job.

The first day she called in sick. the second day she called in sick. The third day, she came in, 2 hours late, and spent several hours on the phone talking loudly to her friends (as she always did on the days she showed up), and disrupting me. Finally, I told her (never mind what I told her) anyway, I had had enough.

Do you think I gave her enough "respect"?


In the top right hand corner of every post, next to the post number, is a little red triangle which can be clicked to report any posts you object to. Do you think I have shown enough respect to someone with a 4-year degree in Computer Engineering by pointing this out?

I'll also point out that you missed the point entirely by writing about your Black overboss giving preference to an idle, malingering Black dropout. I was referring to the time when a White person such as yourself would never have had a Black overboss.

MickeyTong
04-08-2014, 12:38
Thanks Mickey....
It seems many Americans get their view from the US press (understandably) but few US media outlets, the CS Monitor being one of the few, give a non Israeli centered view of Israeli/Palestinian issues.
I am shocked at how many Americans seem to think Hamas is cowering in hospitals and shelters among crowds of women and children. The typical response by Israeli bots is oh, then Hamas should not be among the:
People sleeping in the shelter
Children on the playground
Children playing on the beach
Children feeding pigeons
People queuing for food
When in fact they are not but that is the general perception of the mass civilian casualties...
It seems the Israeli line in much use since Lebanon is 'human shields' a nice cover up, for what now appears to be deliberate attacks on civilians to increase terror.

You're very welcome, Periwinkle.

Chomsky is Da Man :bowdown:

Noam Chomsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MickeyTong
04-08-2014, 13:27
Ramadan Bombathon 2014:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com


http://www.fairbrothers.com/expatphotos/mohamed-elomar-aus.jpg



http://i54.tinypic.com/jr8rcn.jpg

fenrir
04-08-2014, 14:47
[QUOTE=fenrir;1334024]Are you an i---t, or just trying hard to look like one? I responded to a post that stated the Palestinians were smuggling to 'survive.' I pointed out that they have a high level of obesity and cars, thus they are doing much more than just trying to survive. Got it?[/

It is called sarcasm, as I am sure you know.

I think it may be only a percentage of the older generation that is overweight, as people in most photos look rather slim overall. And wiki is well what it is, as I am sure you also know.
I doubt the bombing of the sports complex will help the massive obesity crisis that Gaza is experiencing.... Though, I have yet to see evidence of that problem.

As for the cars, I see plenty of cars on the streets of poor African countries, does that not mean they have an overall poorer standard of living? How do cars come into it, does it depend on the make, the number, do tell?
And as I pointed out, which you ignored, they may have been mostly imported prior to the embargo rather than via the tunnels. Also, the streets in Gaza tend to be rather crowded with people, cars and animal carts, not exactly zipping along super highways, are they? Of course it seems only ambulances are in action much these days....

So, oh wise one, any thoughts on the latest Israeli lie? About the 'kidnapped soldier'?

You see a few photos and that is your proof? If you don't like what wikipedia says, then prove it wrong.

You see cars in the cities of poor African countries, but most people live in the countryside where you won't see many cars. Gaza is mostly an urban environment. And they woudn't need super highways for such a small place now would they? Regarding ambulances: Don't start wars; then you wouldn't need them to be running 24/7.

Regarding the soldier, even Hamas didn't deny he was kidnapped. First they said he was kidnapped BEFORE the ceasefire began. Then they said that they weren't the ones who did it. The Israelis made a mistake. If you think it is a lie and they made it all up, prove it.

fenrir
04-08-2014, 14:50
The norm in Gaza was described in detail by the heroic Norwegian trauma surgeon Mads Gilbert, who has worked in Gaza’s main hospital through Israel’s most grotesque crimes and returned again for the current onslaught. In June 2014, immediately before the latest Israeli onslaught, he submitted a report on the Gaza health sector to UNRWA, the UN Agency that tries desperately, on a shoestring, to care for refugees.

“At least 57 % of Gaza households are food insecure and about 80 % are now aid recipients,” Gilbert reports. “Food insecurity and rising poverty also mean that most residents cannot meet their daily caloric requirements, while over 90 % of the water in Gaza has been deemed unfit for human consumption,” a situation that is becoming even worse as Israel again attacks water and sewage systems, leaving over a million people with even more severe disruption of the barest necessity of life.

Gilbert reports that “Palestinian children in Gaza are suffering immensely. A large proportion are affected by the man-made malnourishment regime caused by the Israeli imposed blockage. Prevalence of anaemia in children <2yrs in Gaza is at 72.8%, while prevalence of wasting, stunting, underweight have been documented at 34.3%, 31.4%, 31.45% respectively.”

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/outrage/

You don't get obese by breathing the air. Regarding the information you posted, perhaps Hamas should redirect some of their efforts from weapons and training to nutrition. Just an idea.

Periwinkle
04-08-2014, 15:03
[quote=Periwinkle;1334026]

You see a few photos and that is your proof? If you don't like what wikipedia says, then prove it wrong.

You see cars in the cities of poor African countries, but most people live in the countryside where you won't see many cars. Gaza is mostly an urban environment. And they woudn't need super highways for such a small place now would they? Regarding ambulances: Don't start wars; then you wouldn't need them to be running 24/7.

Regarding the soldier, even Hamas didn't deny he was kidnapped. First they said he was kidnapped BEFORE the ceasefire began. Then they said that they weren't the ones who did it. The Israelis made a mistake. If you think it is a lie and they made it all up, prove it.

You do not seem to grasp things very well do you?
Do you really think Gaza is not poor? Look at Mickey's above post regarding malnutrition and the effects of the blockade. Your point was because they have some cars they are not very poor? Poor argumentation... People had cars during the Great Depression, did that mean millions were not suffering? People are suffering under the blockade and if you want to go on denying that and the fact that that is a main cause of the rocket fire, then I cannot help your ignorance.

Hamas, said they thought the soldier may have been taken but they were not sure as communications were difficult and yes, they thought it was prior to the cease fire. It now appears he was already dead at Israeli hands.

I notice US papers are mostly full of propaganda type photos of brave Israelis or distant damage to buildings. The Daily Mail is a mixed bag but they are not shy about also showing the real damage and victims:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715282/Second-Gaza-ceasefire-collapsed-claim-Hamas-Group-says-Israel-broke-seven-hour-truce-minutes-just-days-failed-peace-attempt.html

Your US tax dollars at work, funding the Israeli military machine and colonization effort. Think that will not hurt us in the long run, then you are a ***** it has caused us damage for a long, long time...

fenrir
05-08-2014, 12:35
[quote=fenrir;1334194]

You do not seem to grasp things very well do you?
Do you really think Gaza is not poor? Look at Mickey's above post regarding malnutrition and the effects of the blockade. Your point was because they have some cars they are not very poor? Poor argumentation... People had cars during the Great Depression, did that mean millions were not suffering? People are suffering under the blockade and if you want to go on denying that and the fact that that is a main cause of the rocket fire, then I cannot help your ignorance.

Hamas, said they thought the soldier may have been taken but they were not sure as communications were difficult and yes, they thought it was prior to the cease fire. It now appears he was already dead at Israeli hands.

I notice US papers are mostly full of propaganda type photos of brave Israelis or distant damage to buildings. The Daily Mail is a mixed bag but they are not shy about also showing the real damage and victims:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715282/Second-Gaza-ceasefire-collapsed-claim-Hamas-Group-says-Israel-broke-seven-hour-truce-minutes-just-days-failed-peace-attempt.html

Your US tax dollars at work, funding the Israeli military machine and colonization effort. Think that will not hurt us in the long run, then you are a ***** it has caused us damage for a long, long time...

I didn't say they were not suffering. I said they aren't doing too badly. If they can be one of the most obese nations on the planet, have plenty of private cars and can afford to import and build thousands of rockets as well as train and arm the numerous militias that exist there, then they have the resources to create a better situation for their people. They CHOOSE not to.

MickeyTong
05-08-2014, 17:25
[quote=Periwinkle;1334199]

I didn't say they were not suffering. I said they aren't doing too badly. If they can be one of the most obese nations on the planet, have plenty of private cars and can afford to import and build thousands of rockets as well as train and arm the numerous militias that exist there, then they have the resources to create a better situation for their people. They CHOOSE not to.

Israelis aren't doing too badly, either, for a nation defending itself against extinction by all of its neighbours.

The current bitch-slap against Gaza costs Israel about $32 million per day. That's a huge chunk of money which could buy Israel a lot of friends in Gaza. But Israel CHOOSES not to, and would rather spend that money killing kids.

Periwinkle
05-08-2014, 21:15
Check tun these photos today in the daily mail, odd it seems a preponderance of animal carts, I guess when you are rich that is the way you drive....? After all Gaza is full of rich fat people...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716319/Ceasefire-declared-Gaza-Israel-says-withdrawn-troops-month-long-war-far-left-2-000-dead.html#newcomment

Periwinkle
05-08-2014, 21:19
Originally Posted by Periwinkle

I didn't say they were not suffering. I said they aren't doing too badly. If they can be one of the most obese nations on the planet, have plenty of private cars and can afford to import and build thousands of rockets as well as train and arm the numerous militias that exist there, then they have the resources to create a better situation for their people. They CHOOSE not to.

The above is not a quote from me, but a quote from fenrir, that I quoted in my post....

I disagree totally with the above.

And Mickey, yes, I agree with the amount of money Israel is spending, though in their case it will probably end up being paid for by the US....sadly.

Periwinkle
05-08-2014, 21:25
Do not want this to get lost, I would like our friend that thins Palestinians all drive around in fancy new cars to see today's Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716319/Ceasefire-declared-Gaza-Israel-says-withdrawn-troops-month-long-war-far-left-2-000-dead.html#newcomment
Seems animal carts are hot this year, not one, not two, not three, but it seems most people have them.....
How did that happen? In one article from today's paper that is coincidently not titled 'animal carts' yet they feature.

fenrir
06-08-2014, 10:21
Do not want this to get lost, I would like our friend that thins Palestinians all drive around in fancy new cars to see today's Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716319/Ceasefire-declared-Gaza-Israel-says-withdrawn-troops-month-long-war-far-left-2-000-dead.html#newcomment
Seems animal carts are hot this year, not one, not two, not three, but it seems most people have them.....
How did that happen? In one article from today's paper that is coincidently not titled 'animal carts' yet they feature.

Show where I used shiny and new with cars. You love to exaggerate. Regarding your picture from the Daily Heil, how do you extrapolate the few carts in them to 'seems most people have them'? I noticed the same pictures show mostly men, so by using your logic, there aren't many women in proportion to men in Gaza.