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bydand
28-07-2014, 14:26
European ambassadors are meeting today in Brussels to consider European Union actions against Russia in light of continued developments in Ukraine. Simultaneously, the European Commission — which serves as both a kind of EU cabinet and an EU permanent bureaucracy — has sent a ten-page memo to European capitals detailing possible options for anti-Russian moves. The memo, obtained by the Financial Times, belies the notion of a "weak" Europe that is refusing to counter Russian aggression. The truth is simply that the EU's decision-making process is slow. These proposals will have to be debated by over two dozen EU heads of government, and in the course of reaching a compromise they will invariably be watered down somewhat. But the list of measures to consider is aggressive, and shows an EU central command that is determined to make Russia pay a price for aggression.

These are the four main options.

1) Cut off Russian bank finance

This option is the centerpiece of a proposal crafted by the European Commission in Brussels and circulated to national capitals on the morning of July 24. Specifically, they would ban all citizens of EU countries from purchasing new debt or stock issues by most of the Russian banking sector. The plan also proposes to bar Russian banks from listing new stocks on European stock exchanges, using those exchanges as an intermediary to raise funds from non-Europeans.

The banks targeted would be those firms that are at least 50 percent owned by the Russian state — which include the majority of the Russian banking system by assets. The proposal is similar to sanctions already adopted by the United States against Gazprombank and VEB, two major Russian banks, but would be even broader in their impact. European markets account for about half of the total bond issuance of Russian banks, so the impact on the Russian banking sector — and on the broader Russian economy — would be dramatic.

The idea here, in essence, would be to force the Russian government to choose between either watching its economy collapse as bank finance dries up, or else massively redirecting Russian public funds toward shoring up the banking system. Money spent on bank bailouts can't be spent making mischief in Ukraine and foreigners are unlikely to want to invest in a Russian economy whose financial underpinning is so rickety.

2) Embargo Russia's arms trade

Many countries that are not France would like to see Russia punished via the mechanism of France refusing to deliver Mistral helicopter carrier ships that Russia has ordered from French suppliers. France would prefer not to lose out on business worth over $1 billion. The obvious compromise would be for other countries to provide France with a measure of financial compensation, but so far no foreign leaders have indicated willingness to take this step.

The Commission document notes, however, that Europe could hit Russia in the other direction. While the EU exports €300 million a year in weapons to Russia, EU countries import about €3.2 billion in Russian-made equipment. Those imports mostly go to former Warsaw Pact countries such as Poland, whose militaries have a legacy of using Russian arms. This is an appealing target because Eastern and Central European countries are also, in general, the countries most eager to see the EU take a more anti-Russian tilt.

3) End exports of energy equipment

Main As depicted in this chart from the Energy Information Administration, Russia's export economy consists overwhelmingly of fossil fuels. This sector is Russia's greatest point of vulnerability, but it is also the most costly sector for Europe to target since Europeans enjoy burning Russian oil and natural gas.

The Commission proposal calls for Europe to halt the export of certain categories of equipment and technology that are used in fossil fuel extraction. The Commission would not target the natural gas sector, but does call for restrictions on the sale of equipment used in deep-sea drilling, arctic exploration, and shale oil extraction.

This would not put much short-term pressure on the Russian economy. What it would do, however, is possibly divide the Russian elite. The long-term financial prospects of the Russian oil sector depend on its ability to continue pressing into new sources of oil. The imposition of this kind of sanctions could turn Russian oil barons into a constituency for a more restrained foreign policy. There is nothing concrete at stake in Ukraine that is nearly as valuable as tapping Russia's own offshore and shale reserves.

4) Block sales of dual-use technology

Last, the memo discusses the possibility of curtailing the €20 billion market in the export of "dual use" technologies from Europe to Russia. These are technologies that have both civilian and military applications, such as certain microchips or precision tools.

The Commission proposal especially focuses on €4 billion worth of "highly sensitive" equipment including "high-performance computers and electronics."

Over the longer term, inability to access such equipment would retard Russia's ability to produce truly state-of-the-art military equipment or diversify its economy away from reliance on fossil fuel extraction.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/24/5930855/EU-sanctions-on-russia

Judge
28-07-2014, 14:50
Tick tock tick tock...
How Russia could strike back....

Russia could cut off the gas to Europe but the financial hit would hurt Russia too.....Putin and co should have worked harder not to rely on Europe too much as a client.

There's talk from the EU that these new sanctions won't effect any gas deals or touch the gas industry...
If the EU wants to play hard ball, Russia would have been able come out with its wrecking ball and make sure that many EU countries would be in for a very cold expensive winter...
Who knows Russia might just do this,cut off gas and take the financial hit....
Of couse, bewteen the EU and Russia there would be no winners...just a lot of relationship building to be done once all the dust settles..

Benedikt
28-07-2014, 21:03
EXCLUDED is everything in connection that is might be/ will be/ is needed in connection with the gas that is flowing to Russia to Europe. Frau Merkel from Germany says so. And what the Krauts (and French to a lesser part) say and want, goes. they are sh***t scared that next winter there will be cold ovens again. and they have to answer than to their electorate.
they are plain and simple prostitutes in Brussels.

Russian Lad
28-07-2014, 21:25
Gas this, gas that. Russia is just a huge filling station with a nasty and sometimes even brutal service. The time is ripe to fire the manager...

Benedikt
28-07-2014, 21:29
Gas this, gas that. Russia is just a huge filling station with a nasty and sometimes even brutal service. The time is ripe to fire the manager...



and try to wean them off? not even for one day they are prepared to leave their cars at home. and in winter when it is cold, they would care less if the manager is a louse, as long as he delivers.

Ghostly Presence
28-07-2014, 21:39
Gas this, gas that. Russia is just a huge filling station with a nasty and sometimes even brutal service. The time is ripe to fire the manager...

Gas is the only real bargaining chip Russia has and you are correct - the "manager" has got to go. He showed an absolute absence of strategic planning because all his shinanigans in Ukraine smashed against one downed passenger plane. Everything changed for him personally and for Russia in an instant. That should have been expected to happen when things are done on a whim, with no careful contingency planning and with no ability to foresee the circumstances of one's actions. A man with no planning horizon is a lousy leader. He should be fired. Inferiority complex is a poor guide in geopolitics. He thought too much of himself, but forgot the lesson already learned the hard way by other dictators - if you challenge the entire world, you will lose. It's just the matter of time.

Jas
28-07-2014, 21:44
Tick tock tick tock...
How Russia could strike back....

Russia could cut off the gas to Europe but the financial hit would hurt Russia too.....Putin and co should have worked harder not to rely on Europe too much as a client.

There's talk from the EU that these new sanctions won't effect any gas deals or touch the gas industry...
If the EU wants to play hard ball, Russia would have been able come out with its wrecking ball and make sure that many EU countries would be in for a very cold expensive winter...
Who knows Russia might just do this,cut off gas and take the financial hit....
Of couse, bewteen the EU and Russia there would be no winners...just a lot of relationship building to be done once all the dust settles..

No way wud they cut gas but I think they will make europe pay for what they get in rubles which will make rouble stronger and with no need for the central bank to keep buying rubles to stop it falling they can use that money as credit for banks what cant get euro credit. They can also get loans from china and use gas as surety. They got no problem realy.

Jas
28-07-2014, 21:46
Gas this, gas that. Russia is just a huge filling station with a nasty and sometimes even brutal service. The time is ripe to fire the manager...

And let the new management burn the gas station down? No thanks.

Russian Lad
28-07-2014, 21:59
And let the new management burn the gas station down? No thanks.

The time is ripe to catch up with the modern world in science and technologies, to develop. Russia is decades behind and it is getting only worse. Guns and gas is not enough anymore. Right now even common sense is a hard asset to find here.

JanC
28-07-2014, 22:31
I think they will make europe pay for what they get in rubles which will make rouble stronger and with no need for the central bank to keep buying rubles to stop it falling they can use that money as credit for banks what cant get euro credit. They can also get loans from china and use gas as surety. They got no problem realy.


I take it you're not an economist.

Ghostly Presence
28-07-2014, 22:32
The time is ripe to catch up with the modern world in science and technologies, to develop. Russia is decades behind and it is getting only worse. Guns and gas is not enough anymore. Right now even common sense is a hard asset to find here.

There is no one here left to develop modern science and technologies. The quality of human capital in Russia is appalling and is only getting worse. The "Dom-2" generation is not going to advance this country anywhere anytime soon. As the current situation clearly reveals, the majority of the population is aggressive, hateful not only toward outsiders, but also towards each other and is increasingly benighted in the broadest sence of that word through the efforts of the state controlled television that caters to the lowest standards in its programing.

Russian Lad
28-07-2014, 23:06
There is no one here left to develop modern science and technologies. The quality of human capital in Russia is appalling and is only getting worse. The "Dom-2" generation is not going to advance this country anywhere anytime soon. As the current situation clearly reveals, the majority of the population is aggressive, hateful not only toward outsiders, but also towards each other and is increasingly benighted in the broadest sence of that word through the efforts of the state controlled television that caters to the lowest standards in its programing.

A benighted country.:) Yeah, a lot of damage has been done, it is all repairable though, depends on the strategies.


Originally Posted by Jas View Post
I think they will make europe pay for what they get in rubles which will make rouble stronger and with no need for the central bank to keep buying rubles to stop it falling they can use that money as credit for banks what cant get euro credit. They can also get loans from china and use gas as surety. They got no problem realy.

I take it you're not an economist.


Indeed, Jas, read a book on economics.:) Russia is heavily dependent on imports, even if you really make Europe buy gas for rubles (which is a stupid idea to begin with, for many reasons), you will still need hard currency to buy computers, cars, fridges, industrial equipment, etc. and etc. It is just one point, one of many. Check out how the Russian CB and the Federal Reserve operate. Ruble is not even a global reserve currency, basically our Central Bank if a branch of the Federal Reserve dependant on its policies in many ways, and not that indirectly. But it is a big secret, don't tell it to any "patriotic" Russians.:)

Jas
29-07-2014, 00:30
I take it you're not an economist.

Er, I never told I was. I just thought it was a good idea thats all.

Jas
29-07-2014, 00:33
A benighted country.:) Yeah, a lot of damage has been done, it is all repairable though, depends on the strategies.



Indeed, Jas, read a book on economics.:) Russia is heavily dependent on imports, even if you really make Europe buy gas for rubles (which is a stupid idea to begin with, for many reasons), you will still need hard currency to buy computers, cars, fridges, industrial equipment, etc. and etc. It is just one point, one of many. Check out how the Russian CB and the Federal Reserve operate. Ruble is not even a global reserve currency, basically our Central Bank if a branch of the Federal Reserve dependant on its policies in many ways, and not that indirectly. But it is a big secret, don't tell it to any "patriotic" Russians.:)

They can make a new reserve currençy like bitcoin and russia and china and venasela also can run it.

bydand
29-07-2014, 14:31
Just the first (cut off Russian bank finance) sanction of the four proposed would have dire consequences. To quit selling gas to Europe would make the consequences worse. Like cutting off your nose, to spite your face. Russia needs money for gas, and can't get it from anyone else, anytime soon. If VVP doesn't back down in Ukraine, he must have an ego larger than I can imagine. So much suffering over Ukraine.

Edit; As a for instance, forget about World Cup 2018.

Russian Lad
29-07-2014, 15:41
Just the first (cut off Russian bank finance) sanction of the four proposed would have dire consequences. To quit selling gas to Europe would make the consequences worse. Like cutting off your nose, to spite your face. Russia needs money for gas, and can't get it from anyone else, anytime soon. If VVP doesn't back down in Ukraine, he must have an ego larger than I can imagine. So much suffering over Ukraine.

Edit; As a for instance, forget about World Cup 2018.

The biggest danger in these sanctions is the collateral damage - there is a massive investors run going on and it is getting worse. I have been reading that the new European sanctions will directly cost Russia over 150 billion Euro in the first coming two years. Add the indirect effects, and you are looking down a staggering number. Add 50 bln. dollars for Yukos and the sanctions from all other countries - and the picture is very impressive.

TolkoRaz
29-07-2014, 22:10
There is an old and very true maxim, "When there is trouble at home, take it overseas".

I think the West has to be very careful in its considerations - do they really want an unsettled and unhappy Bear? Will the West be able to control the Bear when the Bear becomes really angry and starts really flexing its muscles?

bydand
29-07-2014, 23:38
There is an old and very true maxim, "When there is trouble at home, take it overseas".

Exactly what Putin is doing! Blame the imperialists!


I think the West has to be very careful in its considerations - do they really want an unsettled and unhappy Bear? Will the West be able to control the Bear when the Bear becomes really angry and starts really flexing its muscles?

:5387:Go ahead.:snoring:

TGP
30-07-2014, 00:28
Exactly what Putin is doing! Blame the imperialists!



:5387:Go ahead.:snoring:

Blame for what?

TGP
30-07-2014, 00:34
There is an old and very true maxim, "When there is trouble at home, take it overseas".

I think the West has to be very careful in its considerations - do they really want an unsettled and unhappy Bear? Will the West be able to control the Bear when the Bear becomes really angry and starts really flexing its muscles?

The West can't be careful - their leader Obama is falling into hysterics already. Sometimes I feel really sorry for him.

Russian Lad
30-07-2014, 01:02
I think the West has to be very careful in its considerations - do they really want an unsettled and unhappy Bear? Will the West be able to control the Bear when the Bear becomes really angry and starts really flexing its muscles?

Like I have said it already, it is not the Bear, the Bear is long dead. `This time it is a hyena who has eaten the dead Bear and believes to be as mightly for this. The disillusionment will be bitter and even cruel.

Russian Lad
30-07-2014, 03:24
mighty

Judge
30-07-2014, 10:35
News of the new round of sanctions are being released...
I wonder who's got Putin's ear and tells him enough is enough,saying something like...The Russian economy could really suffer now,or is Putin being told that Russia is self-reliant and doesn't need to play ball with the west.....It really is a good test for Russia to see how self-reliant Russia really is....and really Russia should be a self- sufficient when it comes to many things..well, essential things that is...

The 3 sweet old ladies I saw selling their goods outside my local monastery, looked like they didn't have a care in the world(laughing and joking),all they cared about was who had the nicest looking marinated garlic.

I'll make another post about this monastery...:10293:

JanC
30-07-2014, 11:58
It really is a good test for Russia to see how self-reliant Russia really is....

Not very, but it doesn't matter. Nobody is anyway.

The truth of the matter is that sanctions can easily plunge Russia into a severe recession. The banking sector can be hit very hard, and issuing sovereign bonds can be made unaffordable to Russia very easily. Russia can't realistically use gas supplies as much of a bargaining chip because if they interrupt supplies they are only insuring that within X number of years they will lose the customer altogether.
It won't be felt immediately on the street, of course, but one has to question whether this issue of pride and ego is worth that much economic pain. Crimea had obvious value to Russia, it's not obvious what the benefits of adding Eastern Ukraine would be, if any. Seems to me the only reason to support the separatists there is to get back at Ukraine and keep them in a state of chaos. Is that purpose really worth all this? If Putin thinks it is, I have to question his sanity.

okiey
30-07-2014, 12:04
The Russian market is a resilient beast. Now that the latest set of sanctions from the EU and US have again proved very selective and more a show of window dressing, the RTS and Micex are both showing +2% gains and the ruble is clawing back ground against the euro and dollar.

Judge
30-07-2014, 12:14
Not very, but it doesn't matter. Nobody is anyway.

The truth of the matter is that sanctions can easily plunge Russia into a severe recession. The banking sector can be hit very hard, and issuing sovereign bonds can be made unaffordable to Russia very easily. Russia can't realistically use gas supplies as much of a bargaining chip because if they interrupt supplies they are only insuring that within X number of years they will lose the customer altogether.
It won't be felt immediately on the street, of course, but one has to question whether this issue of pride and ego is worth that much economic pain. Crimea had obvious value to Russia, it's not obvious what the benefits of adding Eastern Ukraine would be, if any. Seems to me the only reason to support the separatists there is to get back at Ukraine and keep them in a state of chaos. Is that purpose really worth all this? If Putin thinks it is, I have to question his sanity.


You mentioned bonds, read this yesterday
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10999086/Europes-bond-yields-lowest-since-15th-century-Genoa-on-deflation-Russia-risk.html

I don't know ,but can't be all good news if Europe's bond yields are that low....what do you make of that....

Putin doesn't like to be pushed around,if he backs down could be a sign of weakness and the west will use this in the future....

penka
30-07-2014, 12:30
Not sure about the resilience of the Russian market, but one can see that the Euro stock exchanges are sneezing already and the investors are worrying. As a result of sanctions, not only the Russian but the regular Euro taxpayers will suffer. And the winner who'll cash in big is, as usual, the current catalyst of all war processes - the US.

AstarD
30-07-2014, 12:48
...the ruble is clawing back ground against the euro and dollar.
Really? It was 35.4 yesterday and to day is 35.6. How is that clawing back?

rumple_stilskin
30-07-2014, 12:48
Just the first (cut off Russian bank finance) sanction of the four proposed would have dire consequences. To quit selling gas to Europe would make the consequences worse. Like cutting off your nose, to spite your face. Russia needs money for gas, and can't get it from anyone else, anytime soon. If VVP doesn't back down in Ukraine, he must have an ego larger than I can imagine. So much suffering over Ukraine.

Edit; As a for instance, forget about World Cup 2018.

Russian banks will never have their finance cut off, China has two or three trillion in us dollars they need to unload. Us/eu are just sanctioning themselves. When they first spoke of sanctions, quite a few westerners were trying to point out that the Chinese were already queueing up to take their place.

The purpose of these announcements is pertpetual media propaganda, so that the chocolate kings SS troops keep shooting their own people in the east. A glimmer of hope to them that they are not fighting all the resources of Russia.

okiey
30-07-2014, 12:58
Really? It was 35.4 yesterday and to day is 35.6. How is that clawing back?

Actually, it opened at 35.84 and I was basing on that.

quincy
30-07-2014, 13:36
The UK will pay an economic price for imposing sanctions on Russia, Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has said.

But he said the "pain" would be no worse than in other EU countries and would be worth it to curb "Russian aggression".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28560356

Worth it? Has there been a debate or has this been dictated from "the top"?

okiey
30-07-2014, 13:52
There won't be much pain for bureaucrats like himself, his state salary will unlikely take a hit.


The UK will pay an economic price for imposing sanctions on Russia, Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has said.

But he said the "pain" would be no worse than in other EU countries and would be worth it to curb "Russian aggression".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28560356

Worth it? Has there been a debate or has this been dictated from "the top"?

fenrir
30-07-2014, 13:57
Not sure about the resilience of the Russian market, but one can see that the Euro stock exchanges are sneezing already and the investors are worrying. As a result of sanctions, not only the Russian but the regular Euro taxpayers will suffer. And the winner who'll cash in big is, as usual, the current catalyst of all war processes - the US.

How is the US the catalyst of China's aggression, the Buddhist-Muslim problems in SE Asia, and the various conflicts going on in Sub-Saharan Africa?

fenrir
30-07-2014, 14:01
Russian banks will never have their finance cut off, China has two or three trillion in us dollars they need to unload. Us/eu are just sanctioning themselves. When they first spoke of sanctions, quite a few westerners were trying to point out that the Chinese were already queueing up to take their place.

The purpose of these announcements is pertpetual media propaganda, so that the chocolate kings SS troops keep shooting their own people in the east. A glimmer of hope to them that they are not fighting all the resources of Russia.

Let Russian become China's b-tch. The Chinese have already burned Russia on the gas 'deal'. Now let Moscow be in debt to them to. Stalin also supplied Hitler right up to the minute the Nazis attacked.

Matt24
30-07-2014, 14:10
Fellow Expats who aren't Swiss / Chinese and or from non aligned states or who don't work for Swiss / Chinese and non aligned states companies, how are you planning to cope with the sanctions response that the Duma is batting around? HQS/P and TRPs don't appear to offer any additional protection from being declared an aggressor...


http://www.dni.ru/polit/2014/7/29/276400.html

AstarD
30-07-2014, 14:12
Actually, it opened at 35.84 and I was basing on that.
Well, look at that clawing back: USD 35.7271


One hour ago it was at 35.63.

okiey
30-07-2014, 14:26
I'd say that's clawing back ... there was no mention of a rally. You do get intraday fluctuations. Who knows where it will finish in the evening. It still shows resilience, under the circumstances, as I mentioned in my initial post.






Well, look at that clawing back: USD 35.7271


One hour ago it was at 35.63.

quincy
30-07-2014, 16:23
Let Russian become China's b-tch. The Chinese have already burned Russia on the gas 'deal'. Now let Moscow be in debt to them to. Stalin also supplied Hitler right up to the minute the Nazis attacked.

You must also remember that Great Britain supported both Mussolini and Hitler when they came to power - for their anti-Communism

Judge
30-07-2014, 18:51
Just the first (cut off Russian bank finance) sanction of the four proposed would have dire consequences. To quit selling gas to Europe would make the consequences worse. Like cutting off your nose, to spite your face. Russia needs money for gas, and can't get it from anyone else, anytime soon. If VVP doesn't back down in Ukraine, he must have an ego larger than I can imagine. So much suffering over Ukraine.

This goes to show that Russia is over-reliant on the EU for gas sales,which is a bad thing for Russia.The Russian leaders have had many years to try and diversify it's economy from the EU gas market.

The EU is trying to hurt Russia by cutting of some banks credit lines,Ok, so some banks will find it hard to finance projects here.There will be many people crunching numbers and seeing what's the worst case scenario...
Russia has been a very good supplier of gas and oil for nearly a 100 years to mainland Europe even all the way through the years of the USSR,unlike the Middle East where we often see problems...

If Russia decides now to cut off the gas to EU countries the situation could take a turn for the worse....
What could happen...
On one hand Russia will suffer, some pet projects won't be built, EU goods can't be bought here,TV's, fridges, cars,foreign food not found in the shop and so on, things that your average Russian can easily do without...
Now in EU countries if Russia turns off the gas..
The cost of energy will shoot up, bills will skyrocket,already 1000's of EU citizens are suffering on a daily bases, many struggle to keep up with paying their energy bills..
It won't be a pretty site, in Europe we could see bodies piled up in the winter,people unable to cope, protests in many countries,governments toppled.




Edit; As a for instance, forget about World Cup 2018.

Big deal, a pet project won't happen, not really a big loss...

Russian Lad
30-07-2014, 19:11
Big deal, a pet project won't happen, not really a big loss...

Hundreds of thousands of young Russian fans may disagree with you. When they disagree, things begin to happen...

okiey
30-07-2014, 19:21
Don't worry guys, the FIFA stooges wouldn't take that world cup from Russia even if they were put on the rack ... Blatter & Co have enough scandals and corruption on their hands, they'd never risk more seeping out.

Judge
30-07-2014, 19:22
Hundreds of thousands of young Russian fans may disagree with you. When they disagree, things begin to happen...

The finals are in 4 years,I would think many Russian football fans have other concerns on their minds right now, like the upcoming new season...

If the world cup is taken away from Russia then the Kremlin will just blame the west...

Judge
30-07-2014, 19:23
Don't worry guys, the FIFA stooges wouldn't take that world cup from Russia even if they were put on the rack ... Blatter & Co have enough scandals and corruption on their hands, they'd never risk more seeping out.

Agree, Qatar is a bigger headache tight now..

Judge
30-07-2014, 19:25
And the winner who'll cash in big is, as usual, the current catalyst of all war processes - the US.

Don't forget China, they must be shaking their heads and thinking, silly Europeans,always making themselves weaker..

rumple_stilskin
30-07-2014, 19:29
Fellow Expats who aren't Swiss / Chinese and or from non aligned states or who don't work for Swiss / Chinese and non aligned states companies, how are you planning to cope with the sanctions response that the Duma is batting around? HQS/P and TRPs don't appear to offer any additional protection from being declared an aggressor...


http://www.dni.ru/polit/2014/7/29/276400.html

This deserves a seperate thread.

If you are a citizen of an 'agressor country', does this mean a problem operating in Russia? yes?

I have an extra passport option, from a country that doesn't drop bombs on anyone. Time to renew.....

Judge
30-07-2014, 19:38
Let Russian become China's b-tch. The Chinese have already burned Russia on the gas 'deal'. Now let Moscow be in debt to them to. Stalin also supplied Hitler right up to the minute the Nazis attacked.

Be it the bitch of the Germans,or America's bitch, every small country might need a bitch to take care of them in the future, but right now Russia is trying to stand alone.....and like the UK, Russia has never been anyone's bitch...

Russian Lad
30-07-2014, 19:44
If the world cup is taken away from Russia then the Kremlin will just blame the west...

Sure they will blame the West, the West is blamed for literally everything, there is a catch though - those fans may have other ideas as to whom to blame if by this time their purchasing power is severely curtailed, and that's when things will turn funny. They are a consumption driven bunch without the real ability to think independently - it is the power the Kremlin is using in full at the moment, but the moment this crowd is relieved of their purchasing ability they will listen to other sources of info as well. And will act accordingly. :gay:

robertmf
30-07-2014, 19:45
It won't be a pretty site, in Europe we could see bodies piled up in the winter,people unable to cope, protests in many countries,governments toppled.


Europe is forecast to have a severe Winter - but that depends on the El Nino flux.

For more information, watch the movie, Snowpiercer

okiey
30-07-2014, 19:52
A return to Frost fairs on the Thames:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25862141

Judge
30-07-2014, 20:03
This deserves a seperate thread.

If you are a citizen of an 'agressor country', does this mean a problem operating in Russia? yes?

I have an extra passport option, from a country that doesn't drop bombs on anyone. Time to renew.....

Lots of new laws get mentioned in the Duma, doesn't mean they will see the light of day, but the one Matt mentioned is possible...Either dust off that extra passport of yours or go for Russian citizenship...

Judge
31-07-2014, 10:13
Here's a closer look how the sanctions could effect Russia in the future....


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/russia-defiant-us-eu-sanctions


what was discussed before about the proposed new law..



Despite Lavrov's statement, a group of ruling party MPs said on Tuesday they would introduce legislation to ban auditing and consulting companies from "aggressor countries" – including the Big Four auditing firms Deloitte, KPMG, Ernst & Young and PricewaterhouseCoopers.

okiey
31-07-2014, 11:20
As regards Deep Water exploration, for instance BP already has a large stake here in Russia via Rosneft, and has made it clear it plans to remain. So, Western countries are prohibited from selling this technology, but how do you prohibit that in partnerships and joint ventures, how do you monitor it?

Its naiive also to believe that Russians cannot develop the required technology ... I mean its already out there.

As they say, necessity is the mother of invention!

penka
31-07-2014, 11:27
BP, East Capital, etc etc etc... I wonder when the savers will start dumping their RF-shares...

okiey
31-07-2014, 12:02
BP, East Capital, etc etc etc... I wonder when the savers will start dumping their RF-shares...

Its not so easy to dump them. Most long investors will hang in for the long-haul I guess.

BP would probably be ruined if it had to cut its investments here; any ideas on what volume of its reserves are counted in Russia?

Interestingly, not many investors are shorting this latest round of sanctions, as the speculators got badly burnt back in May.

Its the reason I guess why the Russian market is holding so steady.

penka
31-07-2014, 12:18
Its not so easy to dump them. Most long investors will hang in for the long-haul I guess.

BP would probably be ruined if it had to cut its investments here; any ideas on what volume of its reserves are counted in Russia?

Interestingly, not many investors are shorting this latest round of sanctions, as the speculators got badly burnt back in May.

Its the reason I guess why the Russian market is holding so steady.

I suppose, it will depend upon how long the sanctions will hold. Eurosanctions - 3 months at the moment, I recon. Closing up to 12 months - small savers will be selling big - just think of the volume.

Even Sweden that doesn't have magnificently large trade with RF is worrying: Trelleborg, Sandvik, ABB (all oil/gas related stocks).

BP's shareholders aren't happy, that's for sure.

Alan65
31-07-2014, 13:56
Here's a closer look how the sanctions could effect Russia in the future....


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/russia-defiant-us-eu-sanctions


what was discussed before about the proposed new law..

At least we know one thing is certain in Russia at the moment

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/capello-to-stay-on-as-russia-coach-despite-no-wins-at-world-cup/504311.html

robertmf
31-07-2014, 14:58
Here's a closer look how the sanctions could effect Russia in the future....


You will all be living in Kommunalki :evilgrin:

Alan65
31-07-2014, 15:04
You will all be living in Kommunalki :evilgrin:

alongside millions of Chinese :evilgrin:

francescagiuli
04-08-2014, 00:04
very interensting and clear…tks

okiey
04-08-2014, 14:55
The sanctions could be taking a nasty turn for the worse: Rospotrebnadzor preparing paperwork to ban some Kentucky bourbon whiskey.

Looks like it could be time to acquire a taste for Vodka again!

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/russia-consumer-watchdog-threatens-to-ban-us-bourbon-interfax-20140804-00072

Judge
05-08-2014, 10:46
The sanctions could be taking a nasty turn for the worse: Rospotrebnadzor preparing paperwork to ban some Kentucky bourbon whiskey.

Looks like it could be time to acquire a taste for Vodka again!

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/russia-consumer-watchdog-threatens-to-ban-us-bourbon-interfax-20140804-00072


Yep, a big turn for the worse....

Russia's Largest Watchmaker Counters West's Sanctions by Refusing to Sell Abroad

but the idea that this Russian watchmaker comes up with later in the article is a cunning plan...:sunny:


Petrodvorets also said it was recommending a law to Russia's parliament to forbid state officials from buying Western-brand watches as presents for employees and associates.

JanC
05-08-2014, 11:14
but the idea that this Russian watchmaker comes up with later in the article is a cunning plan...:sunny:

I actually met that guy from the watches in Moscow a few months ago. Interesting character to say the least. According to his business card he's a Count, whereof I'm not entirely sure, not Crimea judging by the name.

Talked about his watch business and how they were hoping to have a presence on the European market in the future as currently it's near zero. Their mainspring business is very interesting however and can become quite big in the future. Not too sure about the watches, rather low end most of them, definitely not the most profitable business from what I saw.

All in all, good job for spotting an excellent (and mostly free) PR opportunity. They also made a watch that said "Sochi 2014" without the Olympic logo in an attempt to sell a couple without paying official sponsorship. In the end they weren't allowed to sell any.

Are Swiss watches "Western"? Switzerland isn't part of the EU, so it has nothing to do with the sanctions. Most luxury watches are Swiss, and they keep selling parts to the Swiss so it's much ado about nothing.

kanga
05-08-2014, 13:00
Are Swiss watches "Western"? Switzerland isn't part of the EU, so it has nothing to do with the sanctions. Most luxury watches are Swiss, and they keep selling parts to the Swiss so it's much ado about nothing.

Switzerland just introduced an identical sanction list against Russia as the EU list:

http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2014/08/05/n_6369401.shtml

okiey
05-08-2014, 13:25
Only individuals, I don't see any mention of companies or sector sanctions.


Switzerland just introduced an identical sanction list against Russia as the EU list:

http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2014/08/05/n_6369401.shtml

kanga
05-08-2014, 16:41
This article says the sanctions include organizations as well as people:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/switzerland-adds-names-to-blacklist-to-prevent-evasion-of-russia-sanctions/504596.html

Alan65
05-08-2014, 17:16
Yep, a big turn for the worse....


but the idea that this Russian watchmaker comes up with later in the article is a cunning plan...:sunny:

Perhaps a law banning state employees ir officuals receiving Swiss watches as presents would be even better.

Poor old patriarch Krill won't be happy :trampoline:

Judge
06-08-2014, 02:20
I actually met that guy from the watches in Moscow a few months ago. Interesting character to say the least. According to his business card he's a Count, whereof I'm not entirely sure, not Crimea judging by the name.

Talked about his watch business and how they were hoping to have a presence on the European market in the future as currently it's near zero. Their mainspring business is very interesting however and can become quite big in the future. Not too sure about the watches, rather low end most of them, definitely not the most profitable business from what I saw.

All in all, good job for spotting an excellent (and mostly free) PR opportunity. They also made a watch that said "Sochi 2014" without the Olympic logo in an attempt to sell a couple without paying official sponsorship. In the end they weren't allowed to sell any.

Are Swiss watches "Western"? Switzerland isn't part of the EU, so it has nothing to do with the sanctions. Most luxury watches are Swiss, and they keep selling parts to the Swiss so it's much ado about nothing.

Gimmick sanctions from Russia might make a few people laugh,soft product(fruit/meat) sanctions might raise a few eyebrows......
What Russia needs to do is make people sit up and listen....

http://rt.com/news/178192-putin-sanctions-west-response/

Putin asks government to develop countermeasures to Western sanctions
After reading the above.....
I scratch my head and wonder, who is advising Putin when it comes to Russia's sanctions against the west?

The only way Russia can hurt the EU is through gas and oil.....Russia should have shut the taps in March.....weather the storm and see who gives in first...Besides oil and gas, Russia can't really hurt the EU...

drbobguy
06-08-2014, 03:03
Besides oil and gas, Russia can't really hurt the EU...

Blocking overflight privileges is pretty big though, that will definitely impact airlines. Not critically, of course, but it will get the attention of the industry.

Alan65
06-08-2014, 08:28
Gimmick sanctions from Russia might make a few people laugh,soft product(fruit/meat) sanctions might raise a few eyebrows......
What Russia needs to do is make people sit up and listen....

http://rt.com/news/178192-putin-sanctions-west-response/

After reading the above.....
I scratch my head and wonder, who is advising Putin when it comes to Russia's sanctions against the west?

The only way Russia can hurt the EU is through gas and oil.....Russia should have shut the taps in March.....weather the storm and see who gives in first...Besides oil and gas, Russia can't really hurt the EU...

Other than cause inflation to rise in Russia by banning food imports...what other effect will there be.

penka
06-08-2014, 10:02
Blocking transsiberian flying routs will hurt both Russia (loss of income) and Euro air carries (longer flying hours, more fuel required). Both companies, shareholders and regular consumers will pay the price. And: not to forget, that will mean the brighter future for the Asian air companies since they will not have any serious competitors as a result.
What will a traveller prefer? A more expensive ticket direct flight or a cheaper one with transits?

Aeroflot, Air France, Finnair, etc shares dropped big at rumours of this sanction.

And what do companies do when things start to go rough during a prolonged period of time? They start firing people.

okiey
06-08-2014, 10:09
Given that they were going to have to drop these overflight royalties soon anyway as a result of WTO accession, I don't think its a huge deal for Aeroflot.

Russia is looking East, so I am sure its Asian partners will relish this competitive advantage.






Blocking transsiberian flying routs will hurt both Russia (loss of income) and everyone else (longer flying hours, more fuel required). Both shareholders and regular consumers will pay the price. And: not to forget, that will mean the brighter future for the Asian air companies.

Aeroflot, Air France, Finnair, etc shares dropped big at rumours of this sanction.

penka
06-08-2014, 10:29
Given that they were going to have to drop these overflight royalties soon anyway as a result of WTO accession, I don't think its a huge deal for Aeroflot.

Russia is looking East, so I am sure its Asian partners will relish this competitive advantage.

Precisely.

My point is, regular consumers and employees will pay for somebody's political decisions. As usual.

okiey
06-08-2014, 10:44
Until now Putin has been very silent and made no reaction to US and EU sanctions; but both he and Medvedev have decided to at make counter sanctions.

Looks like they have decided not to bow to Western pressure. Not sure if the EU really expected this scenario ... but, we are all going to face difficult time ahead.

Eastern Europe in particular will get very hard hit, in my view, and that could cause major social instability.



Precisely.

My point is, regular consumers and employees will pay for somebody's political decisions. As usual.

penka
06-08-2014, 11:00
Until now Putin has been very silent and made no reaction to US and EU sanctions; but both he and Medvedev have decided to at make counter sanctions.

Looks like they have decided not to bow to Western pressure. Not sure if the EU really expected this scenario ... but, we are all going to face difficult time ahead.

Eastern Europe in particular will get very hard hit, in my view, and that could cause major social instability.

Will all certainty, unfortunately.

As some Euro countries barely managed to reach the pre-crisis level of 2008, Portuguese banks in trouble, Greece economy in deep trouble, Eastern Euro economies in no good shape, uncontrollable flow of immigrants that need food and shelter, the ban of some Polish agricultural produce all of a sudden doesn't look so laughable.

Of course, it's always good to have the external enemy but at some point that policy might stop working.

PS Looks like were there elections tomorrow, Le Pen will be a winner...

AstarD
07-08-2014, 16:10
Well, look at that clawing back: USD 35.7271


One hour ago it was at 35.63.


I'd say that's clawing back ... there was no mention of a rally. You do get intraday fluctuations. Who knows where it will finish in the evening. It still shows resilience, under the circumstances, as I mentioned in my initial post.

More clawing back:
USD 36.2496
EUR 48.4947

Uncle Wally
07-08-2014, 16:55
More clawing back:
USD 36.2496
EUR 48.4947



Since Russia won't be needing petro dollars because they won't be buying anything from America does it really matter.

AstarD
07-08-2014, 16:57
Russia imports 40 percent of its food. It's got to pay somebody in some currency.

TolkoRaz
07-08-2014, 17:01
Personally, I think this is a great opportunity for the RF to be less reliant on others and now seek to restore the once great manufacturing base, improve the infrastructure etc and make the RF once again a Super Power of the future.

This can lead to a period of revitalised nationalism, focus and prosperity for all Russians.

If VVP is clever, he will use the Sanctions imposed against the Rodina as a turning point for the betterment of future generations.

Slava Rossii! :)

penka
07-08-2014, 17:10
Russia imports 40 percent of its food. It's got to pay somebody in some currency.

Belorussia, Russia, Kazachstan do not trade in USD.

Goods from BRICS can be payed in local currencies.

RF signed a deal with Iran re oil, for which she'll pay in industrial goods.

penka
07-08-2014, 17:58
Since RF is contemplating closing its airspace for the European transit, Europe is prepared to ban all Russian transit over its territory.
In Russian:
http://www.gazeta.ru/business/2014/08/07/6164013.shtml

In retaliation RF might close its airspace for EU and EU will close its... American expats will have to walk back to motherland via Bering cross, whilst the Europeans will drive/ take train to the nearest border...

I must say, Kafka and Beckett's imaginary absurdity was a far cry from the real life's realism...

JanC
07-08-2014, 18:06
Personally, I think this is a great opportunity for the RF to be less reliant on others and now seek to restore the once great manufacturing base, improve the infrastructure etc and make the RF once again a Super Power of the future.

The opportunity is likely to be wasted, I suspect.

It would take many years and many billions to modernize and rebuild Russian factories and farms, train workers etc. It would be an insanely expensive undertaking anywhere, but to do it in Russia, where a mile of highway costs 6 times more to create than in the US (or, if its Moscow, nearly 20 times more) seems a daunting proposition.

Plus, by the time this grand project would start bearing fruit, hardly anyone would remember the sanctions.

I would welcome the Russian government heavily investing in the future, but I'm not holding my breath. They are much more likely to continue building their bank accounts and huge houses (and those of their old buddies) than to do something actually good for the country. The sanctions and counter-sanctions are a dick waving contest, I don't see much signs of anyone changing their habits.

robertmf
07-08-2014, 18:21
In retaliation RF might close its airspace for EU and EU will close its... American expats will have to walk back to motherland via Bering cross,

:rofl:

penka
07-08-2014, 18:23
:rofl:

It's not that far, really.

robertmf
07-08-2014, 19:11
It's not that far, really.

Yes, just a short nasty walk. And there is Alaskan king crab to eat along the way :trampoline:


:doh:

penka
07-08-2014, 19:14
No, a short nasty walk. And there is Alaskan king crab to eat along the way :trampoline:


:doh:

Oh yes. Pack ya bags and don't forget the mayo:D

robertmf
07-08-2014, 19:16
Oh yes. Pack ya bags and don't forget the mayo:D

I wonder if Russians will ban toilet paper ? Levis ?

The only thing I didn't stand in queue for was vodka bottle.

:clown:

penka
07-08-2014, 19:29
I wonder if Russians will ban toilet paper ? Levis ?

The only thing I didn't stand in queue for was vodka bottle.

:clown:

Levis? Aren't they China made just like the Apple gadgets?....

robertmf
07-08-2014, 19:32
Levis? Aren't they China made just like the Apple gadgets?....

No. Those are your $19 blue jeans :evilgrin:


:10806::1306::badclown:

penka
07-08-2014, 19:36
No. Those are your $19 blue jeans :evilgrin:


:10806::1306::badclown:

Hmm. Last time I checked it was over 1000 SEK at Nordiska Kompaniet, Stockholm. Levi's.

Uncle Wally
07-08-2014, 21:41
Russia imports 40 percent of its food. It's got to pay somebody in some currency.




40%?

You mean 13% don't you?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/imports

Benedikt
07-08-2014, 21:43
Russia imports 40 percent of its food. It's got to pay somebody in some currency.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-06/putin-retaliates-against-sanctions-with-food-import-restrictions.html

so what is one supposed to believe.
and it says food AND raw agricultural products. now, what is that supposed to mean?
on top of it, and that I know, most of the imports are -want- and not -need- foods.(or booze)

Uncle Wally
07-08-2014, 21:43
I wonder if Russians will ban toilet paper ? Levis ?

The only thing I didn't stand in queue for was vodka bottle.

:clown:



The vodka was a different line or you made it at home?

Benedikt
07-08-2014, 21:47
The vodka was a different line or you made it at home?



all is made local.
Levis jeans? they are not real anyway, the junk comes from China or Malaysia.and even in the USA they don't make them. they import them from the sweatshops form the same countries. and want to be holier then the Pope...Pleeese.....

robertmf
07-08-2014, 22:05
all is made local.
Levis jeans? they are not real anyway, the junk comes from China or Malaysia.and even in the USA they don't make them. they import them from the sweatshops form the same countries. and want to be holier then the Pope...Pleeese.....

Don't wash denim (http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/22/living/dont-wash-jeans-levis-ceo/) jeans :pressie:
custom jeans with $$$ (http://explore.levi.com/news/style/complex-video/)

:10518:

AstarD
08-08-2014, 19:15
More clawing back:
USD 36.2496
EUR 48.4947

Still more clawing back:
USD 36.4461
EUR 48.7722

Russian Lad
08-08-2014, 19:21
Still more clawing back:
USD 36.4461
EUR 48.7722

It should be 38 and 50 within one month I think. At least.

Uncle Wally
11-08-2014, 19:09
Ron Paul

The US government’s decision to apply more sanctions on Russia is a grave mistake and will only escalate an already tense situation, ultimately harming the US economy itself. While the effect of sanctions on the dollar may not be appreciated in the short term, in the long run these sanctions are just another step toward the dollar’s eventual demise as the world’s reserve currency.

Not only is the US sanctioning Russian banks and companies, but it also is trying to strong-arm European banks into enacting harsh sanctions against Russia as well. Given the amount of business that European banks do with Russia, European sanctions could hurt Europe at least as much as Russia. At the same time the US expects cooperation from European banks, it is also prosecuting those same banks and fining them billions of dollars for violating existing US sanctions. It is not difficult to imagine that European banks will increasingly become fed up with having to act as the US government’s unpaid policemen, while having to pay billions of dollars in fines every time they engage in business that Washington doesn’t like.




European banks are already cutting ties with American citizens and businesses due to the stringent compliance required by recently-passed laws such as FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act). In the IRS’s quest to suck in as much tax dollars as possible from around the world, the agency has made Americans into the pariahs of the international financial system. As the burdens the US government places on European banks grow heavier, it should be expected that more and more European banks will reduce their exposure to the United States and to the dollar, eventually leaving the US isolated. Attempting to isolate Russia, the US actually isolates itself.

Another effect of sanctions is that Russia will grow closer to its BRICS (Brazil/Russia/India/China/South Africa) allies. These countries count over 40 percent of the world’s population, have a combined economic output almost equal to the US and EU, and have significant natural resources at their disposal. Russia is one of the world’s largest oil producers and supplies Europe with a large percent of its natural gas. Brazil has the second-largest industrial sector in the Americas and is the world’s largest exporter of ethanol. China is rich in mineral resources and is the world’s largest food producer. Already Russia and China are signing agreements to conduct their bilateral trade with their own national currencies rather than with the dollar, a trend which, if it spreads, will continue to erode the dollar’s position in international trade. Perhaps more importantly, China, Russia, and South Africa together produce nearly 40 percent of the world’s gold, which could play a role if the BRICS countries decide to establish a gold-backed currency to challenge the dollar.

US policymakers fail to realize that the United States is not the global hegemon it was after World War II. They fail to understand that their overbearing actions toward other countries, even those considered friends, have severely eroded any good will that might previously have existed. And they fail to appreciate that more than 70 years of devaluing the dollar has put the rest of the world on edge. There is a reason the euro was created, a reason that China is moving to internationalize its currency, and a reason that other countries around the world seek to negotiate monetary and trade compacts. The rest of the world is tired of subsidizing the United States government’s enormous debts, and tired of producing and exporting trillions of dollars of goods to the US, only to receive increasingly worthless dollars in return.

The US government has always relied on the cooperation of other countries to maintain the dollar’s preeminent position. But international patience is wearing thin, especially as the carrot-and-stick approach of recent decades has become all stick and no carrot. If President Obama and his successors continue with their heavy-handed approach of levying sanctions against every country that does something US policymakers don’t like, it will only lead to more countries shunning the dollar and accelerating the dollar’s slide into irrelevance.

Russian Lad
11-08-2014, 21:08
This guy knows what is really going on
Ron Paul

Ron Paul criticizes whatever the US does, all the time, without a single exception (at least I don't remember any).

robertmf
11-08-2014, 22:00
Ron Paul criticizes whatever the US does, all the time, without a single exception (at least I don't remember any).

It seems to be something sinister to do with the name "Paul".

Notables in the news like Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul are all politicos on the whacko right. IMhO racist buggers with little to offer society.

:9456:

Uncle Wally
12-08-2014, 01:19
It seems to be something sinister to do with the name "Paul".

Notables in the news like Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul are all politicos on the whacko right. IMhO racist buggers with little to offer society.

:9456:




You watch too much TV. There are these things call books, they don't take batteries and you don't have to plug them in. At night you may need a light and it's not touch screen. Google books.

FatAndy
12-08-2014, 12:58
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10600421_480483305420962_4224499482072506067_n.jpg

Uncle Wally
12-08-2014, 13:58
Ron Paul criticizes whatever the US does, all the time, without a single exception (at least I don't remember any).



He's one of the only ones speaking out for freedom. Keep watching because all he said will come true.

Fantastika
13-08-2014, 07:08
It seems to be something sinister to do with the name "Paul".

Notables in the news like Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul are all politicos on the whacko right. IMhO racist buggers with little to offer society.

:9456:

Seriously, the "racists", ALL of them , are on the "Progressive" Left. You can listen to your racist "Reverend" hero, Al Sharpton, broadcasting his racist hate speech from Ferguson, Missouri, right now. It's on the air on the radio news, 24/7, every hour on the hour.

I've never understood how a person who is a self-avowed racist (and Democrat party member) such as Jeremiah Wright or Al Sharpton, who hate white people with a passion and encourage hatred towards other races, can dare to call themselves "reverends" or "pastors" or even consider themselves members of the Christian faith.

Sharpton's inflammatory hate speech has incited riots where innocent people have been killed.

FatAndy
13-08-2014, 17:31
who hate white people with a passion and encourage hatred towards other races, can dare to call themselves "reverends" or "pastors" or even consider themselves members of the Christian faith.
Why not? If he also hates blacks, yellows, reds with the same passion - it's quite good and correct. :whisper:

Carl
14-08-2014, 19:54
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/business/article/oil-giant-rosneft-requests-massive-state-support-to-withstand-western-sanctions/505112.html

I guess those silly sanctions are not so funny for Rosneft...

bydand
14-08-2014, 20:59
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/business/article/oil-giant-rosneft-requests-massive-state-support-to-withstand-western-sanctions/505112.html

I guess those silly sanctions are not so funny for Rosneft...

I think Rosneft will be okay, Babul can say goodbye to her pension.:cry:

FatAndy
14-08-2014, 21:08
I think Rosneft will be okay, Babul can say goodbye to her pension.:cry:
I don't know who is that mysterious Babul, but very probably he/she will yet catch cold at your funerals (it is such Russian idiom, if you don't know yet) ;)

FatAndy
16-08-2014, 13:29
12 more Chilean companies are in the Rosagrosupervison list of allowed suppliers:
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140816114857.shtml

And this is good and correct.

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 13:44
Ruble is falling rapidly. The oil prices are going down (114 in June, 103 now, a downward trend for over a month). This is good and correct. Chile aren't gonna help...:gay:

FatAndy
16-08-2014, 13:56
Yes, bro, everyone will be dead. ;)

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 14:07
Yes, bro, everyone will be dead.

Not dead, but more poor. If I was the US government, I would ask Apple to stop selling their goods to Russia and would compensate the losses. As I understand, they just don't want to hurt the common Russians at this point - the sectoral sanctions were against specific people and companies. The Russian sanctions, on the contrary, are against common people in Europe. Well, mostly against common Russians, in fact, and the near future will show it fully. I am already seeing the prices for almost all grocery products crawling up actually. Many of the people I know live from hand to mouth or even worse - in dire debt. Russia is clearly tittering on the brink of an economic abyss, even you will not be able to turn a blind and trigger-happy eye to it soon anymore.
I have read that Sechin is willing to give Medvedev his stolen twitter account back for 1.5 trillion rubles...

FatAndy
16-08-2014, 14:20
Apple tablets already have fallen from 2nd place to 4th, and Samsung from 1st to 3rd, in RF. First two places now keep brave Chinese guys - Asus and Lenovo. They're simply cheaper with the same performance and TTX. Sic transit gloria mundi...

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 14:26
Apple tablets already have fallen from 2nd place to 4th, and Samsung from 1st to 3rd, in RF. First two places now keep brave Chinese guys - Asus and Lenovo. They're simply cheaper with the same performance and TTX. Sic transit gloria mundi...

I bet Mercedes sales are not the highest in Russia either, are they? In fact, Lada Granta is the most purchased brand in Russia. But many Russians would still be unhappy if the deliveries of Mercedes cars are stopped. You are looking at it from a slightly skewed angle.

FatAndy
16-08-2014, 14:46
Many Germans would be unhappy, you wanted to say, bro?
Well, shooting in own foot never added happiness... КССЗБ ©

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 15:27
Many Germans would be unhappy, you wanted to say, bro?
Well, shooting in own foot never added happiness... КССЗБ ©

I am only hypothesizing at the moment, but the Russian economy is literally at least 100 (one hundred) times weaker than the economies of the Western Europe, the US, the GB, Japan, Canada and Australia combined. The total annual turnover is like the one of the state of California. Technologically Russia is at least 1000 times weaker. Who do you think will win this economic standoff? Ideologically Russia is on an extremely shaky ground as well - this Ukrainian fascists story so far rotates well for the internal consumption and fooling the populace, internationally it doesn't hold any water, and for a good reason. Besides, everyone remembers Chechnya, so Russia's double standards are glaring, anyone with just a gram of brainmatter in his head can see this.
I mean, you don't need to be a genius to see that it is all over. Just a matter of time now.

robertmf
16-08-2014, 16:19
I mean, you don't need to be a genius to see that it is all over. Just a matter of time now.

You forget that Russians don't mind suffering

:groan:

Carl
16-08-2014, 16:50
You forget that Russians don't mind suffering

:groan:

Many seem to actually enjoy it!!

Alan65
16-08-2014, 16:57
Not dead, but more poor. If I was the US government, I would ask Apple to stop selling their goods to Russia and would compensate the losses. As I understand, they just don't want to hurt the common Russians at this point - the sectoral sanctions were against specific people and companies. The Russian sanctions, on the contrary, are against common people in Europe. Well, mostly against common Russians, in fact, and the near future will show it fully. I am already seeing the prices for almost all grocery products crawling up actually. Many of the people I know live from hand to mouth or even worse - in dire debt. Russia is clearly tittering on the brink of an economic abyss, even you will not be able to turn a blind and trigger-happy eye to it soon anymore.
I have read that Sechin is willing to give Medvedev his stolen twitter account back for 1.5 trillion rubles...

Why Apple, just go straight for Windows.

JanC
16-08-2014, 17:16
Why Apple, just go straight for Windows.

Russians actually pay for Windows?

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 17:52
Kiev: A column of the Russian military invaded Ukraine!
Moscow: There is no such column, you are lying!
Kiev: True, it has been destroyed.
Moscow: Fascists!!!


Russians actually pay for Windows?

Some do actually, I would say like 20-30%, according to my observations.

FatAndy
16-08-2014, 19:16
Russians actually pay for Windows?
It depends. If you buy a laptop, it is already in usually, so nobody asks you :).

If not, you may buy oem version, it is much cheaper than boxed one, smth around 2k. I did it a couple of times.

BSA/АППП does several checks per year for legal entities and initiate legal cases regularly, starting very beginning of 200x. So yes, we pay. Not only for Windows and not only to M$.
Not 100% of course.


Kiev: A column of the Russian military invaded Ukraine!
Moscow: There is no such column, you are lying!
Kiev: True, it has been destroyed.
Moscow: Fascists!!!.
There was no any column, stop reading garbage Ukronazist sources, bro - they dissolve your brain :verycool:

TolkoRaz
16-08-2014, 19:21
It does amuse me. All these 'light tanks' being reported by CNN etc are actually BMD Airborne personnel carriers which are a signature equipment of airborne / VDV units.

More importantly, each clearly displayed it Number in big white numerals! If those 'light tanks' were going to enter the UKR, they would not have borne clearly identifiable Numbers or Unit Insignia which would be easily traceable! ;)

FatAndy
16-08-2014, 19:35
Yep, Tolik, here i'd agree with Zadornov - how stuuuuuuupid they are... :)

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 19:48
There was no any column, stop reading garbage Ukronazist sources, bro - they dissolve your brain

Yeah, right. Of course not. How about 1200 soldiers trained for 4 months in Russia? I mean, it is an open admission, and not the first one, Strelkov liked to talk, too. You people are either intellectually challenged are are just making some bloody money off the people butchered there. Кровавые младенцы не снятся?

2.20 - 2.40 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjAvnUa1Wak&feature=youtu.be

TolkoRaz
16-08-2014, 19:57
RusskiLad, You seem to turn a blind eye to the Ukrofacistki shelling civilians with 122 and 152mm High Explosive shells. And when that runs out, they use 122mm Grad rockets, 40 at a time, to tear apart the civilians in Donetsk and Lugansk!

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 20:00
RusskiLad, You seem to turn a blind eye to the Ukrofacistki shelling civilians with 122 and 152mm High Explosive shells. And when that runs out, they use 122mm Grad rockets, 40 at a time, to tear apart the civilians in Donetsk and Lugansk!

Oh, you are wishing to divert the subject now? Fine. There are civilian casualties in any war. When Dresden was bombed thousands of civilians died. 50K civilians dead in Chechnya. No, I am not turning a blind eye to anything, I am watching everything rather closely. Were the Ukrs supposed to give away chunks of their legitimate territory just because thousands of heavily armed people, led, armed and trained by the neighboring state (see the taped videoadmission above), told them to do so?

TolkoRaz
16-08-2014, 20:03
If you want to watch it closely, leave The comfort of St.P and get close to what is happening. I have been there 3 times this year for extended periods, so why not join me on my next trip to Novorossiya?

You might learn something! ;)

Russian Lad
16-08-2014, 20:09
If you want to watch it closely, leave The comfort of St.P and get close to what is happening. I have been there 3 times this year for extended periods, so why not join me on my next trip to Novorossiya?

Sorry, I don't participate in murders and land-grabs. Have more intellectual agendas to pursue. I have heard and seen enough without going there.

TolkoRaz
16-08-2014, 20:12
Come on, let's see you there in early September! Got to survive the UAE heat, and possibly Iraqi, and then I will be back in Novorossiya :)

C u there! ;) You can then 'speak' with authority!

Carl
16-08-2014, 20:14
If you want to watch it closely, leave The comfort of St.P and get close to what is happening. I have been there 3 times this year for extended periods, so why not join me on my next trip to Novorossiya?

You might learn something! ;)

When there, are you collecting that gun for hire 500$ daily rate you mentioned some time back? Or working pro bono?

TolkoRaz
16-08-2014, 20:18
LOL! Daily rate is much more than a measly $500 a day! :eek:

May be the weapon cost my client $500?

Sorry, I do not understand what 'pro bono' means!

TolkoRaz
16-08-2014, 20:20
Ah yes, I understand what you mean - the hired guns from The N Caucasus are still being paid that!

robertmf
16-08-2014, 21:57
Sorry, I do not understand what 'pro bono' means!


:whisper: $FREE$

vossy7
16-08-2014, 22:04
:whisper: $FREE$

And as every Irishman knows it means U2 fans :eek:

FatAndy
18-08-2014, 18:24
The big happiness for Finnish buyers this week - Valio sells cheese with 50% discount. http://news.mail.ru/economics/19233054/?frommail=1

I'm awaiting wonderful news from Poland about their apples price cuts :cool:

At the same time Lithuanian agriculture seems to be a bit nervous and expresses concerns:
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140818151406.shtml

Judge
18-08-2014, 18:32
The big happiness for Finnish buyers this week - Valio sells cheese with 50% discount. http://news.mail.ru/economics/19233054/?frommail=1

I'm awaiting wonderful news from Poland about their apples price cuts :cool:

At the same time Lithuanian agriculture seems to be a bit nervous and expresses concerns:
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140818151406.shtml

Not to worry Andy, the EU have set up a fund to help ....


Europe unveils €125mn in ‘exceptional support’ to food producers

that amount should cover the $10bn that the EU farmers and co will lose..
http://rt.com/business/181036-europe-food-russia-sanctions/

FatAndy
18-08-2014, 18:47
Not to worry Andy, the EU have set up a fund to help ....

that amount should cover the $10bn that the EU farmers and co will lose..
http://rt.com/business/181036-europe-food-russia-sanctions/
125M oiros to cover $10bn? :suspect:

Erhm... I remember the fairy tale that there was a guy who allegedly succeeded with 7 loaves of bread and several fishes for 4K ppl... but for me it seems to be true only in RL signature :D

robertmf
18-08-2014, 19:15
Not to worry Andy, the EU have set up a fund to help ....


:evilgrin: CARE® packages when Russia goes into famine

Judge
18-08-2014, 19:23
125M oiros to cover $10bn? :suspect:

Erhm... I remember the fairy tale that there was a guy who allegedly succeeded with 7 loaves of bread and several fishes for 4K ppl... but for me it seems to be true only in RL signature :D

It's 125m better than nothing, it's all they can afford...:focus:

Judge
18-08-2014, 19:27
:evilgrin: CARE® packages when Russia goes into famine

We will barter , Russian vodka for your 70 year old box...:question:

fenrir
18-08-2014, 21:59
Some of you all are real good at cherrypicking information. The money to help farmers now is for products in full harvest season that have little time to find alternative buyers. More money is available if more products get in trouble later.

Uncle Wally
18-08-2014, 22:28
Some of you all are real good at cherrypicking information. The money to help farmers now is for products in full harvest season that have little time to find alternative buyers. More money is available if more products get in trouble later.

cherrypicking?

We like to think of it as sifting through the lies.

penka
18-08-2014, 22:44
....and there is quite some mighty harvest this year....

robertmf
18-08-2014, 22:50
....and there is quite some mighty harvest this year....

Droughts and famines in Russia and the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:7525:

Sure on farm/kholkhoz. But Russian distribution of farm produce is notoriously bad/inept.

penka
18-08-2014, 23:00
Droughts and famines in Russia and the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_and_famines_in_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union)

:7525:

Sure on farm/kholkhoz. But Russian distribution of farm produce is notoriously bad/inept.

Robert, I am entirely dependable on your life-saving parcels of lobster.:bowdown:
Do you realise a grave responsibility you are entrusted with?

Carl
19-08-2014, 01:22
Robert, I am entirely dependable on your life-saving parcels of lobster.:bowdown:

Wait... What? You've moved back to the Rodina? Penka, now that you have moved back and are living the dream, I will attach much more validity to your posts regarding Mama Russia:D Your comments from a distance were always missing that certain aspect of 'realness'. Welcome back!

Russian Lad
19-08-2014, 01:50
I will attach much more validity to your posts regarding Mama Russia

I doubt it, I am still under the impression she might be nationaltraitering the Rodina abroad while the vast expanses of Magadan and Vorkuta remain unpolulated and cry for such ungrateful sons and daughters of Mama Russia to come back from foreign lands and to settle there permanently!

robertmf
19-08-2014, 02:40
Robert, I am entirely dependable on your life-saving parcels of lobster.:bowdown:
Do you realise a grave responsibility you are entrusted with?

:piano:

Russian Lad
19-08-2014, 06:54
In some regions some foodstuffs in Russia have grown up in price by as much as 60% just in one week, like chicken in Sakhalin. It is in Russian, but you can google-translate:

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2547833

Benedikt
19-08-2014, 07:03
In some regions some foodstuffs in Russia have grown up in price by as much as 60% just in one week, like chicken in Sakhalin. It is in Russian, but you can google-translate:

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2547833



and the wholesalers and distributors together with the importers should be sent to Chita and there they can peel potatoes for some time. bastards, clever businessmen others would say...., who take the opportunity to make a fast buck.

Russian Lad
19-08-2014, 07:13
and the wholesalers and distributors together with the importers should be sent to Chita and there they can peel potatoes for some time.

Now you are beginning to think in the right direction.:) I don't blame the distributors and importers though and have other candidates for the potatoes peeling job you have mentioned. That is, if we will be able to afford buying potatoes for them to peel, of course. :D

TolkoRaz
19-08-2014, 07:29
I wonder if the potatoes realise that they are under surveillance by RusskiLad!

drbobguy
19-08-2014, 09:12
This should surprise no one. Supplies decrease, so prices increase. I expect a lot of Russians on a tight budget to start substituting foodstuffs, e.g. eating Chicken kotlety that are half bread instead of pork or beef.

No one is going to starve, but prices will go up and quality will go down on certain products.

Carl
19-08-2014, 09:49
In some regions some foodstuffs in Russia have grown up in price by as much as 60% just in one week, like chicken in Sakhalin. It is in Russian, but you can google-translate:

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2547833

Lad, maybe you should move in with FatAndy or Benidikt? They reports zero supply issues or price increases... Ben can even put you on a 'need' only diet!

Benedikt
19-08-2014, 09:52
This should surprise no one. Supplies decrease, so prices increase. I expect a lot of Russians on a tight budget to start substituting foodstuffs, e.g. eating Chicken kotlety that are half bread instead of pork or beef.

No one is going to starve, but prices will go up and quality will go down on certain products.



don't have to wait for sanctions to bite.
when I buy sausages I look at the ingredients list. where I see chicken meat MO, and on second place -water-, I give them a miss.
unfortunately, buyers her in Russia don't have the knowledge / time / experience / want to look at things like that. they believe slick advertising, name of a company, or, fair enough, in many cases they have to believe what is in their wallet. but sausages that are made of 10% meat and the rest is from -Mendeleev Tablitsa- this need not to be.Customer awareness is still a far away thing here in Russia. still lots to learn.
And by the way not everyone in Austria is -rich- also there they are counting their cents and the many -Tafeln- ( check what it is) and -social shop- speak a language of their own. and THERE they have no sanctions.Bit the bastards there are also flogging cheap horsemeat for beef in the Lasagna and sausages.....Maybe nothing wrong per se, but then it also must be declared.

penka
19-08-2014, 10:16
I'm not sure, which audience all this horror mixture of truths, half-lies, simplified supply/demand and price policies is aimed at.

People who live on a tight budget, always look for cheaper substitutes to put food on the table, regardless their passport or location.

Prices do have the tendency to go up in the long run, sanctions or not. Swedish apples cost 3-5 EUR/kilo in high season, e.g.
I never buy food at Auchan, but household items, cigarettes and inexpensive cooking wine. The bill ends up with 30% more comparatively to the same basket summer 2013.

RL is right: His notorious potatoes do cost 30 RUB. At the farmers' market. Checked yesterday.

Certainly, the middlemen raised their prices, using both the general situation and the lack of, say, Norwegian farmed salmon.
Apropos the salmon: 12 months ago - 500 RUB, 6 months ago - 600 RUB, early spring this year - 700 RUB, one week ago - 800 RUB.

Bobguy, you ever cook? It is a burger that should not contain anything but beef and spices. Kotlety, made of fish, chicken or read meat - do. Try to manage a fish patty without breadcrumbs or egg and post a pic here. We'll have a good laugh together. Or check out some recipes at yummy.com, your very own all-american cooking site.

Quality? Don't make my socks laugh! Store-bought milk that never goes sour, toast bread that never goes stale, read meat that shrinks far more than designated 25% when cooked, apples that are picture-perfect on the outside and brown inside, sausage that is 30% meat and contains vegetable proteins? Sure, babe, that is a Western store average quality. Attempt to buy ecological, domestically produced - and you'll weep when at the cashier.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 10:25
At the same time cowardly descendants of the German footmen cry and demand military protection and financial aid from Angelka. Not at the moment, she replies:
http://news.mail.ru/politics/19240457/?frommail=1

Who knows sprats price dynamics? :rasta:

RL, you should relocate to Moscow - potatoes got cheaper here http://top.rbc.ru/economics/19/08/2014/943575.shtml

Uncle Wally
19-08-2014, 13:25
At the same time cowardly descendants of the German footmen cry and demand military protection and financial aid from Angelka. Not at the moment, she replies:
http://news.mail.ru/politics/19240457/?frommail=1

Who knows sprats price dynamics? :rasta:

RL, you should relocate to Moscow - potatoes got cheaper here http://top.rbc.ru/economics/19/08/2014/943575.shtml



:whisper:

They're in season, so are many other veggies, had some tastey cucumbers from the dacha the other day.

fenrir
19-08-2014, 13:56
At the same time cowardly descendants of the German footmen cry and demand military protection and financial aid from Angelka. Not at the moment, she replies:
http://news.mail.ru/politics/19240457/?frommail=1

Who knows sprats price dynamics? :rasta:

RL, you should relocate to Moscow - potatoes got cheaper here http://top.rbc.ru/economics/19/08/2014/943575.shtml

Look up what a coward is. Someone who attacks opponents much weaker than them and avoids fights with those of equal or greater strength at all costs. Let's see. There is big, bad Russia attacking Georgia, then Ukraine, with a history of bullying smaller states like the Baltics, but just a few hundred American troops in the Baltics and Putin and Lavrov have twin strokes at the 'massive show of power.'

Is Estonia bullying or attacking any neighbors? No. Is Estonia meeting its NATO defense commitments? Yes. To ask for aid when a bully neighbor over 100 times greater by population is threatening is not cowardice, it is good sense.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 14:21
There is big, bad Russia attacking Georgia, then Ukraine
Don't watch UkroTV and don't trust those ugly girls from DoS.

Would Russia attack Ukraine, we'd clean Lvov from banderlogs already. :)

And if we'd needed to enter Tbilisi in 2008, we'd do it, nothing could disturb - the road was clean, experienced American instructors didn't help brave miniHitler much :)


just a few hundred American troops in the Baltics and Putin and Lavrov have twin strokes at the 'massive show of power.'
:jawdrop: Please show me these twin strokes and quotes of 'massive show of power.' Thanks in advance! :)

EU news:
http://vz.ru/news/2014/8/18/700863.html - Polish truck drivers seem to have some concern about business and employment... hope their govt and EU ready to open thick wallets and they will have fresh, not dry, piece of bread, not only enjoy cheap apples and slightly used but also cheap trucks... ;)

I also hope Alan65 and his truck are OK in the situation.

fenrir
19-08-2014, 15:10
Don't watch UkroTV and don't trust those ugly girls from DoS.

Would Russia attack Ukraine, we'd clean Lvov from banderlogs already. :)

And if we'd needed to enter Tbilisi in 2008, we'd do it, nothing could disturb - the road was clean, experienced American instructors didn't help brave miniHitler much :)


:jawdrop: Please show me these twin strokes and quotes of 'massive show of power.' Thanks in advance! :)

EU news:
http://vz.ru/news/2014/8/18/700863.html - Polish truck drivers seem to have some concern about business and employment... hope their govt and EU ready to open thick wallets and they will have fresh, not dry, piece of bread, not only enjoy cheap apples and slightly used but also cheap trucks... ;)

I also hope Alan65 and his truck are OK in the situation.

Russia has already attacked Ukraine. The Crimea is absolute proof of that.

Regarding having a stroke: It is an English expression similar to 'have a cow.' It doesn't really mean someone gave birth to a cow or that they had a stroke. It means something caused someone to have a serious emotional reaction. I put 'massive show of force' in brackets to show sarcasm.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 15:22
Russia has already attacked Ukraine. The Crimea is absolute proof of that.
Your picture of the world is seriously distorted, comrade.

Crimean population has decided not to have anything common with maidowns and banderlogs, and has came to RF.

Quietly, without noise, violence, heavy artillery fire and Tochka-U launches. Yes, КЧФ has helped "neighbours" a bit.

Of 18000 soldiers of Ukroarmy based in Krym 16000 have decided to serve RF, others were transferred to Ukraine, with technics and armaments.

I understand that you are a bit irritated that plans of your state went not a planned way, but take it as a man.

Once more - would RF attack Ukraine, we'd clean Lvov now. Not Lviv, but Lvov. ;)


It means something caused someone to have a serious emotional reaction. I put 'massive show of force' in brackets to show sarcasm.
Show me serious emotional reaction of Lavrov and Putin, please. Where?

Russian Lad
19-08-2014, 15:44
Crimean population has decided not to have anything common with maidowns and banderlogs, and has came to RF.

You probably missed the show or something. The Crimean parliament was first seized by armed men, then Aksenov was made the top dog (his party had only 4% in the Crimea and had no influence, so he was as legitimate as Ponomarev in Slavyansk, then the parliament was reshuffled, all under a loving protection of armed people, while the Ukrainian border checkpoints and Ukrainian military installations were being busted well before the referendum by little green men, armed and in unidentified uniform. Then there was this referendum with a rather suspicious result of 97%. I do agree that many Crimeans wanted to be within Russia, but it would be interesting to know the real results, whether it was above 50% or below 50%, and to know how many locals were scared into not voting at all.


Would Russia attack Ukraine, we'd clean Lvov from banderlogs already.

True, but then the children of all Russian influential people would have to leave the cozy life in the West, Russia would surely lose Mistrals and the South Stream (there are still chances for these projects to go ahead now, though these chances are decreasing every day), etc. and etc.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 16:01
You probably missed the show or something.
Only insignificant particulars, comrade, which you've described with such a passion. :)
The main result is - Krym is ours, w/o victims (we don't calculate butthurt of banderlogs, maidowns and 2-3 non-adequate reps of tatars), fleet will be armed with nukes, submarine base will be restored, Tu-22M3 with nukes will be based in Bel'bek and Gvardeiskoe, the bridge, pipelines and cabling will be built from Kuban', sanatoriums will be restored, wineyards developed etc.

Russian Lad
19-08-2014, 16:25
The main result is - Krym is ours

This story is not finished yet, it is just beginning. I personally don't feel any better or richer from seeing Krym painted in the Russian colors. Besides, it hasn't been recognized by most countries and is turning into a black zone on the map.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 16:29
This story is not finished yet, it is just beginning.
Exactly. But it will be with a very happy end.


I personally don't feel any better or richer from seeing Krym painted in the Russian colors.
It is your problem, comrade. Try to solve it. Visit Yalta or Sevastopol' at "velvet season", for example ;) You'll like it.


it hasn't been recognized by most countries and is turning into a black zone on the map.
It is their problem, comrade, let them solve it themselves. ;)

JanC
19-08-2014, 16:33
Only insignificant particulars

They seem significant enough to make the difference between Crimea "coming to Russia" or "being taken by Russia''.

Result is the same, obviously. But then there isn't much high ground left to blame the West for similar behavior.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 16:37
They seem significant enough to make the difference between Crimea "coming to Russia" or "being taken by Russia''.
Krym has returned to Russia. :cool:


Result is the same, obviously.
:)


But then there isn't much high ground left to blame the West for similar behavior.
It's the problem of those who need the ground ;)

TolkoRaz
19-08-2014, 20:08
The Krim returned to the RF without a shot being fired or any fatalities - it was a very successful humanitarian operation expertly executed by the Kremlin :10310:

fenrir
19-08-2014, 20:55
The Krim returned to the RF without a shot being fired or any fatalities - it was a very successful humanitarian operation expertly executed by the Kremlin :10310:

Germany took over Austria and Czechoslovakia too without firing a shot. Look how well that went over in the end.

fenrir
19-08-2014, 21:03
Your picture of the world is seriously distorted, comrade.

Crimean population has decided not to have anything common with maidowns and banderlogs, and has came to RF.

Quietly, without noise, violence, heavy artillery fire and Tochka-U launches. Yes, КЧФ has helped "neighbours" a bit.

Of 18000 soldiers of Ukroarmy based in Krym 16000 have decided to serve RF, others were transferred to Ukraine, with technics and armaments.

I understand that you are a bit irritated that plans of your state went not a planned way, but take it as a man.

Once more - would RF attack Ukraine, we'd clean Lvov now. Not Lviv, but Lvov. ;)


Show me serious emotional reaction of Lavrov and Putin, please. Where?

You seem to be forgetting about the information that was briefly posted on a Russian ministry webpage that showed only 30% of the people voted in the referendum and only half of those voted for Russia. It was removed from the website very quickly but screenshots of it had already gone all around the world.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 22:49
You seem to be forgetting about the information that was briefly posted on a Russian ministry webpage that showed only 30% of the people voted in the referendum and only half of those voted for Russia. It was removed from the website very quickly but screenshots of it had already gone all around the world.
You seem to be forgetting this information was posted not on a Russian ministry webpage, but on the webpage of so called "Council/ Commitee on human rights near the President of RF".

It is a kind of pocket mental hospital for liberastic idiots, so called "activists", just to keep them handy and under supervision. We keep them just as circus, you understand? In RF every child knows it.

Comparing them with "ministry" means offending ministries although I'm not a fan of ministries at all.

Unfortunately qualified nurses there sometimes miss moments when patients occasionally get access to office computers. ;)

So if you want to consider the information produced by these clinical idiots like trustworthy, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed... or maybe not - depends how much common sense you have. ;)

And, comrade, please, about visit of several hundreds of US warriors at Latgallia, Kurlandia and Estlandia - Show me serious emotional reaction of Lavrov and Putin, please. Where?

robertmf
19-08-2014, 22:58
Germany took over Austria and Czechoslovakia too without firing a shot. Look how well that went over in the end.

:rofl: The Germans are overdue. Moscow better watch out :watching::watching:

:floating:

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 23:08
Germany took over Austria and Czechoslovakia too without firing a shot. Look how well that went over in the end.
You seem to be forgetting that taking over Czechoslovakia was agreed with so called greatest world democracies of that times - British Empire and French Republic. ;)

Russian Lad
19-08-2014, 23:32
although I'm not a fan of ministries at all.

That sounds strange because you seem to be an ideal Russian citizen, at least the version the current Russian ministries surely seek to promote. They would be very proud of you, every single Russian ministry. Why do you refuse to return the favor by being their fan? You certainly toe all the lines they have drawn for you on the quicksand and seem to jump (metaphorically speaking, of course) when they issue the respective order.


You seem to be forgetting that taking over Czechoslovakia was agreed with so called greatest world democracies of that times - British Empire and French Republic.

See, even Hitler respected the international law, at least in the beginning of his career.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 23:34
That sounds strange because you seem to be an ideal Russian citizen, at least the version the current Russian ministries surely seek to promote. They would be very proud of you, every single Russian ministry.
:D It is your perception problem and problem of ministries.

FatAndy
19-08-2014, 23:48
See, even Hitler respected the international law, at least in the beginning of his career.
Already no, and so called great world democracies, being in full military impotence, had nothing to do else besides agreeing.

It was called pacification, remember? ;) His carrier has started in 192x, he has became Reichskanzler in 1933 (elected fully democratic way ;)), and Muenchen "pacification" was in 1938.

fenrir
20-08-2014, 10:14
You seem to be forgetting that taking over Czechoslovakia was agreed with so called greatest world democracies of that times - British Empire and French Republic. ;)

What you are referring to is the Sudentenland. The seizure of the rest of Czechoslovakia was a separate unilateral action by Germany.

Uncle Wally
20-08-2014, 11:40
:D It is your perception problem and problem of ministries.




He needs re-education, he can come live with me for a month, I'll teach him how to be more Russian!

breezy
20-08-2014, 11:55
I thought the sanctions were just on food. Yesterday went to sperbank to do my usual transfer of money to my American account and they said there was a sanction. So tried maybe 3 or 4 others and same thing. Finally tried a German one and that worked. Hopefully that one doesn't deny me next time too lol

FatAndy
20-08-2014, 12:45
What you are referring to is the Sudentenland. The seizure of the rest of Czechoslovakia was a separate unilateral action by Germany.
And they also agreed in silence, because were impotent. What was US reaction on it? :)

fenrir
20-08-2014, 21:05
And they also agreed in silence, because were impotent. What was US reaction on it? :)

The US was very isolationist at the time. What's more important is what Britain and France did. That led to the beginning of WW II.

penka
08-09-2014, 09:29
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/748524

FatAndy
08-09-2014, 11:09
Would be painful for low-costers, and not only...

penka
08-09-2014, 11:28
Would be painful for low-costers, and not only...

Painful for those, who travel to visit family or on business, time- and cost-wise.
I've read, they are going to increase the prices of Aeroflot international tickets by 18%, atop of everything.
Besides, it would be reasonable to anticipate the symmetric measure for Aeroflot's European and US flights.

rumple_stilskin
08-09-2014, 14:02
Since Russia are dealing with snakes, they should fight the same way.

Why not impose bans on German and French airlines, but allow American and British airlines to overfly free of charge. Or other combinations.

Just single out a few countries so they resent the sanctions and resent each other.

Or better yet, a total ban on all UK goods and services including overflights. Absolutely perfect timing. It's just before the Scottish referendum to remind the Scottish people about Londons foreign policy and that it does cost them....

JanC
08-09-2014, 14:35
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/748524

I don't think they are actually going to be stupid enough to start an airspace war. In a tit-for-tat exchange of sanctions the Russian carriers will lose half (rough guess) their flights.

Only a very small percentage of EU/US flights is destined for Russia, but a very large percentage of Russian flights lands in the EU/US.

Overflight bans would be a genuine PITA, but all it would really do is raise ticket prices for those EU flights, not make them impossible. Again, a tit-for-tat reply would leave Russian carriers much worse off, while everyone loses.

Bottom line: they are not going to actually do anything like this.

rumple_stilskin
08-09-2014, 15:41
I don't think they are actually going to be stupid enough to start an airspace war. In a tit-for-tat exchange of sanctions the Russian carriers will lose half (rough guess) their flights.

Only a very small percentage of EU/US flights is destined for Russia, but a very large percentage of Russian flights lands in the EU/US.

Overflight bans would be a genuine PITA, but all it would really do is raise ticket prices for those EU flights, not make them impossible. Again, a tit-for-tat reply would leave Russian carriers much worse off, while everyone loses.

Bottom line: they are not going to actually do anything like this.

I hope the way you think is the same as the way Obama, Merkel and Cameron think as then their demise will be swift and we are at the end game.

It's not the flights destined for Russia they intend banning. It's overflights to Asia and only for European airlines. So European airlines will have a higher cost and several hours extra of flight time. Who wants to spend several extra hours on a plane, simply cancel the ticket.

Problem is that those planes have to be in certain places at fixed times as often the flight is the first leg. Other passengers will want to get on the flight as their first leg of another flight. Return flights will now be at unsuitable times. Pilot and crew rest times etc. Mass cancellations and total chaos. Asian airlines such as China airways, Thai airways or Emerites etc will simply scoop up the business. Heathrow is a hub and will suffer.

In the longer term loss of brand loyalty as loyal customers will try another airline and maybe decide to stay with them. now we are talking job losses...

To respond with airline sanctions, the EU puppets will need to meet again to impose any sanctions at all in retaliation. The sanctions they are imposing are a reaction to events in the Ukraine, they say. Not sanctions in response to Russian retaliation and so there is one problem already. When they meet again, they will need to consider what Russia's response will be as there will be one. You would need to expect simply a total trade war escalation and a complete halt to all EU/Russia trade. Russia can do all that and not suffer too much while still keeping the gas flowing to Europe and taking their money. The EU will be straight into recession. Russia does not even need to play the freeze their ass off card.

All this escalation just before the Scottish referendum, just enough to tip the balance. So, the Scottish decide to be independent, then...

If Kiev say they want to be like Europe, and Europe allows a part of a country to succeed by referendum then how can Kiev and the west say those in the east cannot be independent? Its already at the point of hippocracy and double standards that everyone can see. It was always about the control of trade markets and never about anything else at all such as territorial integrity.

On this basis, I would say there is no chance they will impose sanctions until after the Scottish referendum. But then as other commentators have pointed out, Putin is playing chess while Obama and Merkel are playing marbles.

Sanctions today and we are at the Ukraine end game, hooray!

p.s. Finland and Slovakia have already said a few days or weeks ago they will not support further sanctions and it needs to be unanimous. The pressure will be on!

JanC
08-09-2014, 16:34
I hope the way you think is the same as the way Obama, Merkel and Cameron think as then their demise will be swift and we are at the end game.

I'm not sure what world you live in, but I'm quite sure it's not entirely real.


It's not the flights destined for Russia they intend banning.

How did you get that from the article? It merely says "closing airspace", they don't mention exemptions.

This is one of the last actions they would ever take, things aren't nearly bad enough yet for using airspace as a bargaining chip.

Russia would lose as much, or more, than anyone else. Aeroflot already ran its first ever H1 loss, how do you think they'll do with half their flights banned?

Uncle Wally
08-09-2014, 16:56
Let's not forget what is going on here.



The Mess Obama Made on the Way to the So-Called Ceasefire in Ukraine


In effect, the demonized Russian has done again what he did twice in the Middle East last year. He saved Obama’s bacon when he got Syria to dispose of its chemical weapons, allowing our policy-challenged leader to step back from his “red line” threat to bomb Bashar al-Assad. Then he back-channeled with the Rouhani government in Iran, urging Tehran to put its nuclear program in play as pressure to aggress was mounting in Israel and among conservatives in Congress.

And so, to Ukraine. All hail the cessation of hostilities. Let’s hope that the months of bungling at the White House and State Department result in lessons learned. Let’s think in terms of a series of misreadings.

First of all, the Obama administration misread Europe very badly. It’s unpopular to say so, but the European Union had brokered a pretty good deal between the elected president Viktor Yanukovich and the demonstrators in Kiev last February. The deal focused on constitutional reform to diminish presidential power, and early elections so that voters could get him out of office if they so chose.

This would’ve been “democracy promotion” properly defined. Instead, with unseemly haste, State backed a coup precipitated by violence-loving extremists who pushed the protests beyond their intent. They sent Yanukovich into exile and gave power to unelected provisionals.



http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mess-obama-made-way-called-094500994.html

AstarD
08-09-2014, 17:02
Russia would lose as much, or more, than anyone else. Aeroflot already ran its first ever H1 loss, how do you think they'll do with half their flights banned?
Also,

Aeroflot would lose out on the subsidy it receives in the form of the fees paid by foreign airlines for the right to fly over Russian territory.

JanC
08-09-2014, 17:27
Also,

Aeroflot would lose out on the subsidy it receives in the form of the fees paid by foreign airlines for the right to fly over Russian territory.

Correct, take that ~200M a year off Aeroflot's books and they would've struggled to make any profit even in sanction-free times.

rumple_stilskin
08-09-2014, 17:47
I'm not sure what world you live in, but I'm quite sure it's not entirely real.



How did you get that from the article? It merely says "closing airspace", they don't mention exemptions.

This is one of the last actions they would ever take, things aren't nearly bad enough yet for using airspace as a bargaining chip.

Russia would lose as much, or more, than anyone else. Aeroflot already ran its first ever H1 loss, how do you think they'll do with half their flights banned?

"The article"? is there only one source of information? a gospel of "The article". I assume it's best if "the article" also comes from Rupert Murdoch, the only official source of information.

No, one of the last actions the Russians will take is to freeze their asses off.

There are good reasons for the Russians to impose sanctions, regardless of who loses more. The Europeans are too used to doing wrong to others and it costs them nothing, or very very little. essentially acting as a gang to bully smaller nations. Now they are doing the same to Russia, or trying to, and it is going to cost them something and they need to answer to their electorates. Now the Europeans need to consider their own skins, will they get voted out at the next elections and some are coming soon.

The Europeans have also backed themselves into a corner where they don't want to be seen to lose. Only fresh elections in Europe will result in a change of policy.

The Europeans have started a trade war, and they have bitten off more than they can chew.

rumple_stilskin
08-09-2014, 17:54
Also,

Aeroflot would lose out on the subsidy it receives in the form of the fees paid by foreign airlines for the right to fly over Russian territory.

You just think about money, oh some small dollars in fees. I think the fees you are talking about are about 1 GPB per person per year in Russia. What the west has done in the Ukraine is plain wrong.

Do you think they should be subjected to arrogance and slander and all the rest just so they can recieve 1 GPB each?

AstarD
08-09-2014, 17:57
Oh no, Rumple. I think about much more than money. And no, I don't think the Russians should be subject to slander and arrogance, anymore than I think "the West" should be. But that's not happening either.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 18:11
This story is not finished yet, it is just beginning. I personally don't feel any better or richer from seeing Krym painted in the Russian colors. Besides, it hasn't been recognized by most countries and is turning into a black zone on the map.

I have been in Krym many times, altogether I spent about 6 months there, mostly in Simferopol. I do remember seeing "Soyuz" as graffiti, in many places. On the 8-mile bus ride to the airport from the city, you could see it spray-painted 100 times. There was a small, but permanent pro-Russian demonstration in the city center square (this was in 2008).

When you went to the market, no one talked in Grivna, they talked in Rubles. For example you bought an orange for "Ruble, 50" they didn't say "Grivna, 50".

The hotel personnel sometimes talked about pensions and what a miniscule amount it was. And I do remember after Yushenko's accession to the throne, I was asking where are the Russian-language channels on the TV, and the reply, with some upset, "they are no more." And the Kiev plan was to stifle Russian language, first in government, then in schools.

At one mountain-top place, there were about a dozen big (house-sized) telescopes, throughout the town, a scientific research village, abandoned by the Ukrainians, just rusting.

So I think Krym was more than ready to get bigger pensions, use real Rubles
and not have to worry about not being able to use their own language and enjoy their own culture.

AstarD
08-09-2014, 18:19
...and not have to worry about not being able to use their own language and enjoy their own culture.
Ottoman Turkish?

JanC
08-09-2014, 18:24
"The article"? is there only one source of information? a gospel of "The article".

I framed it as a question, you know. Where did you get the information that it would not apply to flights which land in Russia? Because the article certainly didn't say that.

So, what is your source, outside of your own imagination?


The Europeans have started a trade war, and they have bitten off more than they can chew.

That's clearly subject to debate, not so much an established fact. A Russia that avoids dealing with the EU/US at all cost is one which will have considerable economic hardship as well. The Russians I know personally might not be the biggest Putin fans, but as long as they were doing financially well, the fact that huge amounts of the country's resources end up in the pockets of very few (friends of) seemed like a price worth paying. It remains to be seen how Russians would react to their standard of life going backwards. But that would mean this situation dragging on for a year or longer, which I think is still unlikely at this point. I still expect this sanctions mess to get sorted sooner rather than later.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 18:25
Ottoman Turkish?

I saw an incident with a drunk, groping Tartar on a bus, it's far too obscene for this family-oriented forum!

AstarD
08-09-2014, 18:29
I saw an incident with a drunk, groping Tartar on a bus, it's far too obscene for this family-oriented forum!
I see you can't adhere to the subject matter.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 18:31
So, what is your source, outside of your own imagination?

I thought the same thing as Rumple when I heard about this possible ratcheting up of sanctions - banning overflights of Russian territory.

It would cost the rest of the world's airlines, extra time and extra fuel, and maybe they would put some pressure on the brainless bureaucrats.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 18:37
I see you can't adhere to the subject matter.

I have a wild imagination, it's very difficult to stick to anything for any length of time.

I'm happy to be creative and always coming up with new ideas!:reindeer:

JanC
08-09-2014, 19:21
I thought the same thing as Rumple when I heard about this possible ratcheting up of sanctions - banning overflights of Russian territory.

It's a possibility, but still only a guess a this point. I consider the possibility of this being used as a response to the newest sanctions from the EU quite low.

Everyone involved knows that once you start "filtering" your airspace it won't be long before there is a complete ban on both sides.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 19:54
It's a possibility, but still only a guess a this point. I consider the possibility of this being used as a response to the newest sanctions from the EU quite low.

Everyone involved knows that once you start "filtering" your airspace it won't be long before there is a complete ban on both sides.

The US continues to create the Ukraine "problem" (read your Tom Clancy :) ). Obama has some sort of bug up his behind about Russia and Putin. Notice everyone else came to an agreement in Minsk when the US was *not* there. I like Angela Merkel, she is doing a good job, trying to balance both sides. Doesn't hurt that she speaks fluent Russian, either.

JanC
08-09-2014, 20:14
I like Angela Merkel, she is doing a good job, trying to balance both sides. Doesn't hurt that she speaks fluent Russian, either.

Amazing, we might just actually agree on something here.

Merkel is hard to like in some ways, but on the other hand she is the ultimate pragmatist. Perhaps because she is a woman, she cares more about getting the required results than pride. As far as running a country goes, I think she does a pretty good job.

I think she is generally a realist, so when she says Putin is "out of touch with reality" I value her opinion on that more than I would, say, lapdog Kerry's. I do feel there is a level of paranoia on the Russian side that isn't entirely healthy. It wasn't like this 5 years ago.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 20:14
Besides, it hasn't been recognized by most countries and is turning into a black zone on the map.

I just tried to book a flight from Kansas City to Simferopol. Only 250 flights to choose from!

I *would* be nervous, flying over Ukraine.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 20:31
I think she (Merkel) is generally a realist, so when she says Putin is "out of touch with reality" I value her opinion on that more than I would, say, lapdog Kerry's.

Haven't heard much from JK lately. I bet he's thinking more and more about relaxing on that yacht and kite-sailing.

When he was running for president, he made a remark that young people could "...either work hard in school or get stuck in Iraq."

Then this photo made the e-mail rounds, and had a lot of people laughing, in the offices of the Pentagon and suburban Washington:

http://www.fairbrothers.com/expatphotos/Kerry.jpg

JanC
08-09-2014, 20:39
Few things are more disturbing to watch than a US presidential campaign. Democracy by retards, for retards.

penka
08-09-2014, 20:50
I'm watching the Swedish election campaign at the moment.
Motto: Open your hearts.
Translation: Open ya wallets, losers.
Disturbing is a word to weak in the context.

Fantastika
08-09-2014, 21:00
I'm watching the Swedish election campaign at the moment.
Motto: Open your hearts.
Translation: Open ya wallets, losers.
Disturbing is a word to weak in the context.

I am always in favor of smaller government, it's more accountable, and less greedy.

Let the Kurds have their own country, let East Ukraine become independent, let Scotland become a country, and here, I would like to see Kansas, with Oklahoma and Texas, become new country.

The bigger the country, the bigger and more tyrannical, the government.

Uncle Wally
08-09-2014, 23:31
I'm watching the Swedish election campaign at the moment.
Motto: Open your hearts.
Translation: Open ya wallets, losers.
Disturbing is a word to weak in the context.


Disturbed - Another Way To Die [Official Music Video] - YouTube


Disturbed - Down With The Sickness (Explicit) (Official Music Video) - YouTube

Uncle Wally
09-09-2014, 01:15
Oh no, Rumple. I think about much more than money. And no, I don't think the Russians should be subject to slander and arrogance, anymore than I think "the West" should be. But that's not happening either.




So what's "happening" baby?

AstarD
09-09-2014, 08:27
Nothing poopsik.

Judge
09-09-2014, 08:56
Love is in the air....... kinda reminds me of Russia's relationship with the EU, a love hate relationship....

So, the EU have put their new round of sanctions on hold, to see if the ceasefire holds, so far so good, although a bit shaky for now,hopefully will last much longer and they find a end to this conflict and sanctions are all lifted from both sides...

Uncle Wally
09-09-2014, 16:57
Love is in the air....... kinda reminds me of Russia's relationship with the EU, a love hate relationship....

So, the EU have put their new round of sanctions on hold, to see if the ceasefire holds, so far so good, although a bit shaky for now,hopefully will last much longer and they find a end to this conflict and sanctions are all lifted from both sides...


No love or hate on this side.

Uncle Wally
09-09-2014, 17:02
Russia, one of the world's largest wheat exporters, has supplied 4.7 million tons of all grains including pulses to its customers abroad in August. Its top customers are in North Africa and the Middle East. Russian wheat prices rose for a second straight week thanks to a record pace of August exports, high domestic demand and weak rouble that offset continuing harvesting, analysts said on Monday.



"It is the highest ever monthly export level," Russia's IKAR agriculture consultancy said in a note. Wheat exports also hit an all-time record of 4.2 million tons.


Ears of wheat are seen during sunset on a field of the Solgonskoye farming company in the village of Solgon, southwest from Krasnoyarsk. IKAR expects the country to harvest 60.0 million tonnes of wheat, 20.2 million tonnes of barley and 12.7 million tons of maize.


http://finance.yahoo.com/photos/russia-s-grain-exports-hit-record-high-in-august-1410193242-slideshow/

Judge
12-09-2014, 07:11
So the EU is going ahead with its new sanctions .

New EU sanctions against Russia will take effect on Friday, blocking loans for five big state banks and curbing EU business with oil and defence firms.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29154488

It's another ridiculous move by the EU, so far the ceasefire has held up, there's even talk from the Ukraine side that Russia troops are leaving.... What else do the EU want, piss off Russia some more..
It's about time Putin and co started to get serious when dealing with the EU, not closing down a few McDonalds here and there or stopping western food, Putin should shut off the gas, OK not all at once, but turn off the tap for Poland and one of two other countries, let's see the EU really sweat it out...

If the EU wants to sanction Russian oil/gas firms then they should pay the price for it, gazprom,Rosneft should take the hit to their profits...Even the state budget shoud take the hit,....


Russia says it is preparing a response. One top Russian official said cars imported from the EU could be targeted.

OK and what, Russians can't buy new cars,already sales are down 30% here and volkswagen have closed down their Kaluga factory for 10 days cos of slow sales, what's the point of banning cars now where hardly anyone is buying, it's time to hit the EU where it really hurts ...

Russian Lad
12-09-2014, 11:30
it's time to hit the EU where it really hurts ...

The EU budget is 7 times bigger than the Russian budget. Even if the EU was acting alone, the end of this economic standoff would be immensely predictable. But they also have the US, Japan, Canada and Australia on their side. The Russian economy is being crushed into one messy pulp. But you are welcome to live in your fantasy world, not daring to face the numbers and the reality. Those mills grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly well. Oil - 99 from 115 in June and going down.

SV1973a
12-09-2014, 11:34
[QUOTE=Judge;1349621]So the EU is going ahead with its new sanctions .

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29154488

I would really like to know whether the majority of the EU population supports these sanctions against Russia. I think the answer is `no`...

FatAndy
12-09-2014, 11:41
I would really like to know whether the majority of the EU population supports these sanctions against Russia. I think the answer is `no`...
Does somebody of their Darkest Lords have any interest to know their opinion? :)
Evil Russians have bitten the Krym and invaded proud Ukraine which dared to go pure democratic way :)

SV1973a
12-09-2014, 11:44
Does somebody of their Darkest Lords have any interest to know their opinion? :)
Evil Russians have bitten the Krym and invaded proud Ukraine which dared to go pure democratic way :)

Indeed, it put my ideas about democracy in perspective.
I voted for Putin, but didn`t get the chance to vote for Van Rompuy (I wouldn`t have voted for him anyway. I know him from national politics and he - as well as his brother- was always a hypocrite).

Russian Lad
12-09-2014, 11:47
I voted for Putin

So, you are happy with his foreign policy? :) Do you believe he, unlike Rompuy, is an honest and open-minded individual?

SV1973a
12-09-2014, 11:49
So, you are happy with his foreign policy? :)

`yes`. Putin needs to do what is best for Russia, not what is best for other countries. He seems to be doing that...I`d vote for him again, if the elections would be today.

quincy
12-09-2014, 11:51
OK and what, Russians can't buy new cars,already sales are down 30% here and volkswagen have closed down their Kaluga factory for 10 days cos of slow sales, what's the point of banning cars now where hardly anyone is buying, it's time to hit the EU where it really hurts ...

Stopping the import of German luxury cars should get more businessmen telling Merkel to end this madness

Russian Lad
12-09-2014, 11:52
Putin needs to do what is best for Russia, not what is best for other countries. He seems to be doing that...

Only because the TV tells you so or you have other proof? Prices on practically everything have grown up, the economy shows zero growth, car sales are 30% down, tourist companies are being ruined in clusters, etc. In Saint Pete where I live there are issues with salary payments now at some big enterprises, no money since April in some cases. Is it good for Russia, you believe? It is sort of masochistic if you really believe that.

SV1973a
12-09-2014, 11:59
Only because the TV tells you so or you have other proof? Prices on practically everything have grown up, the economy shows zero growth, car sales are 30% down, tourist companies are being ruined in clusters, etc. In Saint Pete where I live there are issues with salary payments now at some big enterprises, no money since April in some cases. Is it good for Russia, you believe?

I don`t mind too much what the TV is telling me. I know it is propaganda, just like in the west. This reminds me of a Soviet joke; `the difference between Soviet and American propaganda, is that Americans believe in theirs.`
I believe currently we are seeing a moment of opportunity for Russia. Time to invest in their own industry. Because of the sanctions they may be forced to stimulate their own economy, and not only live on oil and gas income.
I am sure that if the sanctions will continue long enough, you`ll see appearing issues in the EU as well !
That is why I don`t think people in Europe support these sanctions. Nothing to gain for the people, only to lose.

Russian Lad
12-09-2014, 12:02
Time to invest in their own industry. Because of the sanctions they may be forced to stimulate their own economy, and not only live on oil and gas income.

These are nice words without any real meaning. You cannot develop it without a real scientific and industrial base, and I don't see any desire in Putin to develop it. He has his bets on the army and the police.
Sure, the West will feel these sanctions as well, but their combined economic power is 35 times bigger than that of Russia. Industrially and scientifically - their advantage is probably 100000%.

SV1973a
12-09-2014, 12:12
These are nice words without any real meaning. You cannot develop it without a real scientific and industrial base, and I don't see any desire in Putin to develop it. He has his bets on the army and the police.
Sure, the West will feel these sanctions as well, but their combined economic power is 35 times bigger than that of Russia. Industrially and scientifically - their advantage is probably 100000%.

How did the USSR develop in the 30s ? They also didn`t have an industrial base. Necessity is the mother of invention.
I am not impressed by the west having a bigger economic power. The Roman Empire was brought down by barbarians.

Russian Lad
12-09-2014, 12:14
How did the USSR develop in the 30s ? They also didn`t have an industrial base. Necessity is the mother of invention.

So, you want gulags with free labor back? Are you sure you will not be sent to fell trees in Vorkuta in this case? That system back then was effective, but it was also ruthless, to the point of devouring its own creators and apologists.


I am not impressed by the west having a bigger economic power. The Roman Empire was brought down by barbarians.

Well, then the history of USSR collapse didn't teach you anything. It is sad, since you are willing to step on the same rake again. It is gonna hurt.

Uncle Wally
12-09-2014, 13:33
How did the USSR develop in the 30s ? They also didn`t have an industrial base. Necessity is the mother of invention.
I am not impressed by the west having a bigger economic power. The Roman Empire was brought down by barbarians.



Really it was brought down by having too many wars.


Here's some good videos on the histry of money. Talks about how countries fail too.

Silver & Gold - Hidden Secrets Of Money Ep 2 - Seven Stages Of Empire - Mike Maloney - YouTube

AstarD
12-09-2014, 16:36
The Russian market is a resilient beast. Now that the latest set of sanctions from the EU and US have again proved very selective and more a show of window dressing, the RTS and Micex are both showing +2% gains and the ruble is clawing back ground against the euro and dollar.
Really? It was 35.4 yesterday and to day is 35.6. How is that clawing back?


Actually, it opened at 35.84 and I was basing on that.


Well, look at that clawing back: USD 35.7271


One hour ago it was at 35.63.


I'd say that's clawing back ... there was no mention of a rally. You do get intraday fluctuations. Who knows where it will finish in the evening. It still shows resilience, under the circumstances, as I mentioned in my initial post.


More clawing back:
USD 36.2496
EUR 48.4947


Still more clawing back:
USD 36.4461
EUR 48.7722


It should be 38 and 50 within one month I think. At least.


Ruble is falling rapidly. The oil prices are going down (114 in June, 103 now, a downward trend for over a month). This is good and correct. Chile aren't gonna help...:gay:

More clawing back (same source as for all previous rate quotes, dni.ru):

USD 37.6545
EUR 48.6647

Remington
12-09-2014, 16:55
How did the USSR develop in the 30s ? They also didn`t have an industrial base. Necessity is the mother of invention.
I am not impressed by the west having a bigger economic power. The Roman Empire was brought down by barbarians.

80% of college grads in Russia wants to leave Russia and work abroad in Western Europe or US. Russia is suffering serious brain drain. Corruption, poor salary, and lack of personal rights and protections are serious threat to Russia itself.

AstarD
12-09-2014, 17:00
Russian society doesn't reward innovation and it never has. To suggest that they will be able to innovate their way out of this mess is ridiculous.

Remington
12-09-2014, 17:11
Russian society doesn't reward innovation and it never has. To suggest that they will be able to innovate their way out of this mess is ridiculous.

That's why many scientists and inventors don't want to work in Russia because they know their inventions will be taken away by someone who have much interests to profit from it.

Russian Lad
12-09-2014, 17:35
More clawing back (same source as for all previous rate quotes, dni.ru):

USD 37.6545
EUR 48.6647

37.90 and 49.03 already. Okiey, claw your way back to where you came from.:)

Uncle Wally
15-09-2014, 13:40
Dutch stage tomato fight against Russian sanctions


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/life-gives-tomatoes-throw-them-100353943--finance.html

Serguei Lyovin
02-10-2014, 16:13
Looks like EU is going to keep the sanctions on.

Uncle Wally
02-10-2014, 16:24
Looks like EU is going to keep the sanctions on.


Don't expect Russia to bend over and take her pants off.

penka
02-10-2014, 19:51
So, you want gulags with free labor back? Are you sure you will not be sent to fell trees in Vorkuta in this case? That system back then was effective, but it was also ruthless, to the point of devouring its own creators and apologists.



Well, then the history of USSR collapse didn't teach you anything. It is sad, since you are willing to step on the same rake again. It is gonna hurt.

Ruthless, sweetheart?:) Ask any ex-kolchoznik, whom they grieve more for, any Emperor or Comrade Stalin. I doubt the latter one bothered much of the concept of Christian mercy.

Russian Lad
02-10-2014, 20:04
Ruthless, sweetheart? Ask any ex-kolchoznik, whom they grieve more for, any Emperor or Comrade Stalin. I doubt the latter one bothered much of the concept of Christian mercy.

So, what's your point? You have decided to illustrate my thought that the history didn't teach the Russian [-]narod[/-] riffraff anything? Ok, point taken then. Not sure why you feel obliged to stoop to their level of self-masochism though.
They want to suffer - they are my guests, I am willing to watch the show and to have a few laughs (and wagons of freshly minted international brides). I have all my savings in hard currency and potatoes stashed in safe places, I am ready for the sh't to hit the fan. Doubt most of those "patriotic" creatures are.
On the other hand, the level of lies they are exposed to is devilishly unprecedented, many have just been brainwashed. I am rather curious to see their reaction when they get it that they were fooled big time. Some are already seeing this, the vibes are a bit different than just 3 months ago, questions are being asked, misunderstanding and disbelief are growing gradually.

penka
02-10-2014, 22:01
So, what's your point? You have decided to illustrate my thought that the history didn't teach the Russian [-]narod[/-] riffraff anything? Ok, point taken then. Not sure why you feel obliged to stoop to their level of self-masochism though.
They want to suffer - they are my guests, I am willing to watch the show and to have a few laughs (and wagons of freshly minted international brides). I have all my savings in hard currency and potatoes stashed in safe places, I am ready for the sh't to hit the fan. Doubt most of those "patriotic" creatures are.
On the other hand, the level of lies they are exposed to is devilishly unprecedented, many have just been brainwashed. I am rather curious to see their reaction when they get it that they were fooled big time. Some are already seeing this, the vibes are a bit different than just 3 months ago, questions are being asked, misunderstanding and disbelief are growing gradually.

The point is, you personally should have bothered to create the basic freedom for yourself, as for example independence from your parents, instead of enjoying their hospitality and insulting the rest of the population. Freedom starts from within, not from the accessibility of imported jamon.
You misuse your freedom of speech, complain about absolutely everything and do not move a finger.
Never in my life, living as a taxpayer in several countries, have I met a person so hateful of absolutely everything in the homeland, preaching of that detest on a public forum year after year, as if problems do exist in Russia exclusively.
Maybe, Russia tolerates you endlessly? I wonder sometimes, if the Emperors had the tolerance of Comrade Stalin, were I still to enjoy the stately homes of my ancestors?

Russian Lad
02-10-2014, 22:06
The point is, you personally should have bothered to create the basic freedom for yourself, as for example independence from your parents, instead of enjoying their hospitality and insulting the rest of the population. Freedom starts from within, not from the accessibility of imported jamon.

Personally I am doing ok, I may even benefit from this, financially. You have missed everything what I said. Not that I counted on your attention. Not sure whom I live with or how much money I am making matters for the purposes of this forum. It is totally unclever to say: "Hey, I don't agree with your point of view and I think you are wrong because I believe I am more rich than you." But it is very common among many Russians though, it seems.


have I met a person so hateful of absolutely everything in the homeland, preaching of that detest on a public forum year after year, as if problems do exist in Russia exclusively.

I have criticised the US on this forum, and rather extensively, so this is simply a base and unfounded libel. I initially came to this forum (the current affairs part) during the war with Georgia, look at my posts back then.

Armoured
02-10-2014, 22:10
I have all my savings in hard currency and potatoes stashed in safe places...

This image made me giggle.

penka
02-10-2014, 22:27
Personally I am doing ok, I may even benefit from this, financially. You have missed everything what I said. Not that I counted on your attention. Not sure whom I live with or how much money I am making matters for the purposes of this forum. It is totally unclever to say: "Hey, I don't agree with your point of view and I think you are wrong because I believe I am more rich than you." But it is very common among many Russians though, it seems.



I have criticised the US on this forum, and rather extensively, so this is simply a base and unfounded libel. I initially came to this forum (the current affairs part) during the war with Georgia, look at my posts back then.

You are funny.

Uncle Wally
02-10-2014, 23:26
Boredom sets in at speed. Yawn.



Wake up!


BUZZCOCKS - Boredom (original sound, 1977) - YouTube

Judge
02-10-2014, 23:34
This image made me giggle.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUcf8jv9bCN8kRrLR_99ismF3SFdDqm2metUIz88-J4s3ru_0M

Russian Lad
03-10-2014, 00:19
Pre-Monty Python: We Were So Poor - YouTube

bydand
06-11-2014, 20:26
I like the language:
the question of whether <...> is shifting
a few reports said
unconfirmed reports of movement
difficult to identify
may include anywhere from one to several
unclear whether some of these forces
difficult to place an exact number
reports on the size and nature <...>will likely remain conflicting
of whether it is mostly Russian soldiers or Russian-trained separatists

It resembles me that old Soviet Army anecdote end / proverb - "...х@й его знает, тащ командир!" ;)

And for now (and for how long) suffer sanctions, and self imposed boycotts. Do you think its worth it? Most don't, as far as I can perceive.

Oh well, Russian souls used to suffering the vagaries of government/rulers is not new.

FatAndy
07-11-2014, 11:22
And for now (and for how long) suffer sanctions, and self imposed boycotts.
Who - Stratfor, language, Soviet Army or anecdote?

If you ask me personally, I don't suffer (yet). I'm neither high-level official, nor owner of oil or weapon-producing company. In contrary, with import replacement tendence we're overfilled with orders, taken from market share of HP/Dell/IBM and other server manufacturers.

Non pleasant - yes, maybe, we have to manipulate money faster than usual, while rub falls, as customers pay in rub, and we buy components for usd.

Also I'm glad for Baltic milk/dairy consumers, Poles, Greeks, Spanish and French consumers - very cheap fruits and cheeses they have... now...

Belorussia is smuggling smth from EU to RF having a copeck, I also glad for them. Swiss cheese producers, as well as our local ones, make some money. It's also positive. Latin American fruit companies increase sales, Israeli, Mid-East ones too.


Do you think its worth it?
What - its? Standing tight on the right position, observing own interests - definitely yes. Does it cost? Yes, it costs - as I said already to RL, independent views always are expensive.

Or you mean its - US/EU sanctions? Ask Obamka and Zhen'ka Psakina, they'll tell you many words about need to support and distribute so called values and so called democracy, and maybe whisper into your ear how many dry thin bones they'll drop to weak-willed EU herd as a compensation ;)


Most don't, as far as I can perceive.
Most of what/whom? Your wide circle of communication? My condolences, or congratulations - as you wish. If the circle isn't wide, try to extend it and ask more people. Maybe you'll hear some different opinions. Or maybe not.


Oh well, Russian souls used to suffering the vagaries of government/rulers is not new.
Sure. But I'm damned totalitarian pervert, I enjoy them.

Judge
07-11-2014, 11:59
I've been hearing sanctioned cheese can be bought in shops and today was told that the ban on cheese has been lifted..any truth in this?