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quincy
08-06-2014, 19:40
The city is preparing to survive without drinking water and electricity.

Residents are living a third day without water, some people even the fifth Half [of the city population] doesnt have electricity, the man said.

As shops ran out of drinking water supplies too, Twitter images showed that residents had started scooping the remaining water out of fountains.
http://rt.com/news/164564-slavyansk-shelling-water-hospitals/

Russian Lad
08-06-2014, 20:20
Рабфак - Новый Порядок - YouTube

TolkoRaz
08-06-2014, 22:29
Some might say it is ethnic cleansing!

Water is not needed to cleanse ethnically! ;)

TolkoRaz
08-06-2014, 22:43
Well, Summer is fast approaching, so yes, the water will be turned off at some stage! ;)

Russian Lad
08-06-2014, 23:30
the water will be turned off at some stage!

Cleansing!
On a serious note, what is going on in the Eastern Ukraine is not called cleansing, it is called meddling. And there are truckloads of proof.


let alone build bridges to crimea...I may be wrong but I am here all night

What are you delivering?

bydand
09-06-2014, 10:22
Putin thinks its alright for Assad to do likewise in Syria.

FatAndy
09-06-2014, 10:26
Putin thinks its alright for Assad to do likewise in Syria.
I so envy you, bro... you're able to read thoughts of Darkest Lord...

Russian Lad
09-06-2014, 12:50
Why has the thread been doctored and censored, Andy?:) Did he agree to cough up some assistance or what?:) Maybe you took the money and deleted the evidence from here, now I will never know.:( You are such a greedy and conniving moderator.:(

FatAndy
09-06-2014, 12:52
Why has the thread been doctored and censored, Andy?:)
Because. :D


Maybe you took the money and deleted the evidence from here, now I will never know.:( You are such a greedy and conniving moderator.:(
Yes, and you envy in silence.:vampire:

Russian Lad
09-06-2014, 12:53
Because.

You have switched from managed democracy to dictatorship?:( Will I be arrested and submitted to the stonecrusher?

FatAndy
09-06-2014, 12:54
You have switched from managed democracy to dictatorship?:( Will I be arrested and submitted to the stonecrusher?
Not yet, but breathe by order only.:devilish:

Russian Lad
09-06-2014, 13:09
Where is Okie(y), anyway? He seems to be hiding with my blood-stained but hard-earned cash!:) Hope he hasn't escaped to some remote corner of the globe without Internet and access to this forum.

okiey
09-06-2014, 13:53
Putin thinks its alright for Assad to do likewise in Syria.

America thinks its not alright for Assad to do as Kiev does ...

Russian Lad
09-06-2014, 14:55
America thinks its not alright for Assad to do as Kiev does ...

Assad has murdered thousands and is a dictator, we can hardly compare him with Poroshenko even with a stretch of imagination. Russia seems to be determined to support all bloody dictators on this planet. The answer why is obvious - it is heading towards dictatorship itself and will become one if the world lets it happen. Besides, what Russia was doing in Chechnya was far worse.
Anyway, how about our bet? It wasn't about territories, it was about who was going to become the president of Ukraine.

Fantastika
09-06-2014, 16:16
Petro the Pure, the wonderful Chocolate King, who delights in blessing children with free ice-cream...

http://rt.com/news/164564-slavyansk-shelling-water-hospitals/

okiey
09-06-2014, 17:52
The Chocolate has already hired investment bankers to cash out all his assets. I guess a contingency plan when he needs a quick gettaway like Yanukovich.

Akhmetov wasn't so lucky :))

TolkoRaz
09-06-2014, 22:53
What will happen to the factories in The Krim and RF?

Surely, a President will not have the time to run a family business when he has a country to govern?

Fantastika
09-06-2014, 23:39
What will happen to the factories in The Krim and RF?



Well, after he cashes out in Krim, UKR Air Force - bombs away!

TolkoRaz
09-06-2014, 23:40
It is either that or he pays taxes to the Kremlin! :eek:

Russian Lad
10-06-2014, 13:28
It is either that or he pays taxes to the Kremlin!

Chances are he will be a dark pawn of the Kremlin indeed, Zurabov knows him well, since he exports to Russia he is an interested party so I don't exclude the eventuality that he will be tempted to sit on two chairs like Yanukovich. Well, now he knows what will be in store for him in this case, so he may have taken a decision already on which side of history he is.

Fantastika
11-06-2014, 14:45
Chances are he will be a dark pawn of the Kremlin indeed, Zurabov knows him well, since he exports to Russia he is an interested party so I don't exclude the eventuality that he will be tempted to sit on two chairs like Yanukovich. Well, now he knows what will be in store for him in this case, so he may have taken a decision already on which side of history he is.

I don't think he is very competent, as a leader.

Petro's idea of dealing with eastern Ukraine is to bomb them and call them "terrorists". This may work in his oligarch's business world - threatening other businesses, and "attacking" them to incorporate them into his billionaire empire, but it won't work in the world of politics and diplomacy.

If he thinks he has the backing of NATO, think again. Obama is behind NATO, and Obama also has no experience in foreign affairs. He is no world leader. The result is problems with an aggressive communist China, Iran getting nukes, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, etc. becoming battlegrounds with terrorist armies, the US economy plunging.

An embrace with Obama is an invitation to chaos.:floating:

Russian Lad
11-06-2014, 15:13
Petro's idea of dealing with eastern Ukraine is to bomb them and call them "terrorists". This may work in his oligarch's business world

Didn't it work in Chechnya?

Fantastika
11-06-2014, 15:34
Didn't it work in Chechnya?

What I meant by "it doesn't work" is that the bombing was done to force the secessionist area to remain as it was, and the result was more unhappy people, not fewer. So the plan to pacify the area succeeded on the surface, but "did not work" in convincing the people.

Ukr. shelling of residential areas in Lugansk and Slaviansk has resulted in anger and some of the residents formerly supportive of Kiev, now opposed. In like manner, heavy-handed force in Chechnya probably created more enemies than friends for Russia, and 500,000 Chechnyans moving to Moscow, where it is easier to spread their mafia enterprises and the world will blame "Russians" not "Chechnyans."

Russian Lad
11-06-2014, 15:40
Ukr. shelling of residential areas in Lugansk and Slaviansk has resulted in anger and some of the residents formerly supportive of Kiev, now opposed.

Why do you think they bother aiming some residential areas? What you are saying is probably true, but do they have a choice? If they don't nip it in the bud Russia will make sure it spreads to the whole East and South and to Kyev itself if possible. Federalization is a solution, of course, but I see it as lame, Russia trying to dictate to Ukraine what to do with their country. Anyway, a huge negotiation seems to be under way, including gas supplies to Europe and what not, so this "uprising" will be over the moment these vultures strike a deal, signing it with the blood of their innocent victims that they have consciously murdered or sent to die. Just watch the developments carefully - the gas deal is signed and some sort of an agreement on decentralization is reached - no more armed bandits in Luganda and Donbabwe, they will disappear into thin air as if by magic. The leaders will die as heroes of course, they know too much and will be liquidated. There is nothing spontaneous in what is going on there. They are nothing but human bargaining chips on the negotiation table of blood-thirsty monsters.

Fantastika
11-06-2014, 15:51
Why do you think they bother aiming some residential areas?

Who knows? Some is rogue soldiers, thugs, or mistakes. Maybe they think some "terrorists" are hiding in house or building, so they bomb building.

NATO-US-EU + Media have gotten Kiev whipped up into hating the ""Russian" "terrorists" and Petro is doing little to de-escalate the situation, so it's going to be a hard lesson for him, or chaos...

Like Obama, Petro is experiencing "OJT" - "On the Job Training" - it means you are hired to do a job, and you don't know how to do the job, so you have to learn quickly or else...

What do you think?

Russian Lad
11-06-2014, 16:00
What do you think?

See above.

Fantastika
11-06-2014, 17:35
...Luganda and Donbabwe...

Ok, I get it. "Krimwana" "Mariupolia" :)

Russian Lad
11-06-2014, 17:54
Самообо€она Респƒблик ›ƒгандонии и ”онбабве - YouTube

:AngelPray::rasta:

Украина. Республика Луганда. Вооруженные бомжи на улицах. Донецк,Славянск,Краматорск,Луганск - YouTube

Fantastika
11-06-2014, 17:58
The first video is hilarious!...

Wonder what happened to the guy taking the video...

Remington
11-06-2014, 18:38
The leaders will die as heroes of course, they know too much and will be liquidated. There is nothing spontaneous in what is going on there. They are nothing but human bargaining chips on the negotiation table of blood-thirsty monsters.

Now Russia know who they are and any Russian citizens who participated in this war or civil uprisings against Ukraine will be arrested if same thing happened in Russia in the near future. Russia will not tolerate any instigators against Kremlin. I seriously doubt they'll be called heroes because they'll be a threat to Russia's security.

Russian Lad
11-06-2014, 19:03
I seriously doubt they'll be called heroes because they'll be a threat to Russia's security.

Why, post-mortem, of course, they are not going to receive any medals officially, but Channel 1 will surely broadcast a few lovely heroic programs - some of them like Ponomarev and Girkin, they seem to be too dumb to be secret agents, so they are walking corpses without realizing it yet, I guess. Some like Boroday are active agents on duty I think, anyway, which by itself doesn't guarantee their security either, given the level of the stakes on the table. The near future will tell us more regarding this.:)

TolkoRaz
11-06-2014, 20:17
Soon they will be broadcasting TV in Ossetian and Abkhazian language so that all paid 'tourists' to the East can enjoy and understand some TV at the end of a day's fighting! ;)

FatAndy
11-06-2014, 21:19
Now Russia know who they are and any Russian citizens who participated in this war or civil uprisings against Ukraine will be arrested if same thing happened in Russia in the near future. Russia will not tolerate any instigators against Kremlin. I seriously doubt they'll be called heroes because they'll be a threat to Russia's security.
Will see.:smokin: There are some other so called "independent countries" nearby ;)

quincy
12-06-2014, 11:26
Who knows? Some is rogue soldiers, thugs, or mistakes. Maybe they think some "terrorists" are hiding in house or building, so they bomb building.

NATO-US-EU + Media have gotten Kiev whipped up into hating the ""Russian" "terrorists" and Petro is doing little to de-escalate the situation, so it's going to be a hard lesson for him, or chaos...

Like Obama, Petro is experiencing "OJT" - "On the Job Training" - it means you are hired to do a job, and you don't know how to do the job, so you have to learn quickly or else...

What do you think?
Clinton/Tony Blair called Milosevic another Hitler before starting to bomb Yugoslavia
Now Obama/Kerry/EU bosses and their media cover up atrocities by the regime they helped to bring to power in Ukraine

Fantastika
12-06-2014, 15:46
Clinton/Tony Blair called Milosevic another Hitler before starting to bomb Yugoslavia
Now Obama/Kerry/EU bosses and their media cover up atrocities by the regime they helped to bring to power in Ukraine

Botox Hillary and Prince Charles have both compared VVP to Adolf.

quincy
12-06-2014, 16:32
Botox Hillary and Prince Charles have both compared VVP to Adolf.

This has become predictable. Any leader who doesn't do as told becomes a Hitler.

Grigor
12-06-2014, 16:57
if the russians in eastern ukraine are dissatisfied. they should use the ballot box instead of the rifle . and abide by the outcome.

Fantastika
12-06-2014, 17:04
if the russians in eastern ukraine are dissatisfied. they should use the ballot box instead of the rifle . and abide by the outcome.

Right...So tell the Chocolate King to stop bombing their :ak:hospitals and apartment buildings, stop referring to them as "terrorists" and...heck, why not invite them to a seat at the table where their future is being negotiated?

Russian Lad
12-06-2014, 18:09
if the russians in eastern ukraine are dissatisfied. they should use the ballot box instead of the rifle . and abide by the outcome.
Right...So tell the Chocolate King to stop bombing their hospitals and apartment buildings, stop referring to them as "terrorists" and...heck, why not invite them to a seat at the table where their future is being negotiated?
__________________

This "uprising" in Slavyansk and other cities is totally artificial and was created by Russia. The group leader, Strelkov, explicitly said he is Russian and came from Russia. Boroday is also Russian from Russia. A number of other commanders are also Russian from Russia, and they are not hiding it. This is direct meddling. Most locals don't even know what "federalization" really means it seems. Their propaganda regarding "war against fascists in Kyev" is ridiculous now that Yarosh, the guy whom they claim to be a fascist though there is no real evidence he is one, got only 1% in the elections.

Fantastika
12-06-2014, 18:15
This "uprising" in Slavyansk and other cities is totally artificial and was created by Russia. The group leader, Strelkov, explicitly said he is Russian and came from Russia. Most locals don't even know what "federalization" really means it seems. Their propaganda regarding "war against fascists in Kyev" is ridiculous now that Yarosh got only 1% in the elections.

This "uprising" in Kiev and other Western cities is totally artificial and was created by EU-US-NATO. The group leader, IMF, explicitly said they will bankrupt Ukraine, raise taxes, and loot the country, and they just arrived from Greece. Most locals don't even know what "federalization" really means it seems. Their CNN-Euronews propaganda regarding "war against terrorists in Lugansk and Donetz" is ridiculous now that they are bombing hospitals, strafing apartment buildings and killing civilians.

Russian Lad
12-06-2014, 18:21
This "uprising" in Kiev and other Western cities is totally artificial and was created by EU-US-NATO.

Even if we assume it was totally artificial (though you know it wasn't, unless you want to ignore 500 000 people on Maidan), are Americans and Europeans in charge of the Ukr army and their political institutions, directly I mean, with their commanders in the field and leading operations? Are they supplying all sorts of heavy weapons? There has been some meddling from the West, but it is not that direct and that blatant. And also, I don't remember the US or the EU annexing a part of Ukraine and claiming it is theirs now.
IMF is not planning in Ukraine anything unusual - hello, the same was done in Russia in the beginning of the nineties by the same IMF, Russia is still around. Maybe you were a little kid learning to use the toilet without assistance back then, but I remember those times quite well.:)


now that they are bombing hospitals, strafing apartment buildings and killing civilians

Yes, the Russian TV and RT have a lot of stories along these lines. I am still waiting for them to report that the Ukrainian soldiers are using Schmeissers (we were shown an MG-42 over a month ago, not sure why they stopped at that) and shouting "Sieg Heil" when attacking the rebels. The story can be and needs to be more thrilling.

Вова Путин ХВАТИТ ВРАТЬ - YouTube

Fantastika
12-06-2014, 18:52
Even if we assume it was totally artificial (though you know it wasn't, unless you want to ignore 500 000 people on Maidan), are Americans and Europeans in charge of the Ukr army...Are they supplying all sorts of heavy weapons?

Oh, I see you edited 5 million to 500,000. Actually it was more like 5000 arsonists and snipers. Yes, Chocolate King is marching in EU ordered-goosesteps and USA is supplying not weapons but everything else (uniforms, meds, food, supplies), so Kiev has more money to buy weapons.


There has been some meddling from the West, but it is not that direct and that blatant...
And also, I don't remember the US or the EU annexing a part of Ukraine and claiming it is theirs now.

The meddling is not blatant, unless you forget about the US Navy in the Black Sea, the US air force moving war planes to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, more NATO missiles going to Poland.

You don't remember NATO-US annexing a piece of Serbia (Kosovo) and calling it their own, either. Or arming Shaakashvili and encouraging him to bomb apartment buildings in South Ossetia.


IMF is not planning in Ukraine anything unusual ...I remember those times quite well.:)

Your memory needs some repair. Maybe you can find some (non-Christian) therapy, such as electroshock.

I know someone who contracts at IMF in Washington. The money-crats are not planning anything that will interfere with their continued rich, fat-cat lifestyles.:10518:

(This means they couldn't care less about what happens to Ukraine or anyplace else), as along as they can continue to fly First Class. :plane:

Russian Lad
12-06-2014, 18:56
Actually it was more like 5000 arsonists and snipers.

Why are you lying??? Does it look like 5000 people??? This is your Russian TV, reporting "dozens of thousands":

žппози†ион刋 в‹вели на œайдан ‚‹ся‡и ‡еловек и назна‡или соб€ание - YouTube


You don't remember NATO-US annexing a piece of Serbia (Kosovo) and calling it their own, either.

What, Kosovo is another US state now??? Or you haven't learned the meaning of the word "annexation" yet?


Your memory needs some repair. Maybe you can find some (non-Christian) therapy, such as electroshock.

I know someone who contracts at IMF in Washington. The money-crats are not planning anything that will interfere with their continued rich, fat-cat lifestyles.

(This means they couldn't care less about what happens to Ukraine or anyplace else), as along as they can continue to fly First Class.

IMF did something different in Russia? In what way? What are you talking about????? Yes, I assume they care primarily about their pockets, but they are not a charity organization.

Fantastika
12-06-2014, 19:48
It was a big crowd for ONE day. All the OTHER 180 DAYS, it was a small rabble of arsonists, terrorists, snipers , looters and other assorted criminals.

This is a complete waste of time. You are just looking for someone to antagonize with, CNN-boy.

Oh, wait, one question.

At what point will you support your country?

When the Islamo-Fascist Mob which has taken over half of Syria and most of Iraq, reaches the Russian border?

When the murdering, raping army of Islam reaches Samara?

When the looting rampage reaches Moscow?

When?

Russian Lad
12-06-2014, 20:12
When the Islamo-Fascist Mob which has taken over half of Syria and most of Iraq, reaches the Russian border?

When the murdering, raping army of Islam reaches Samara?

When the looting rampage reaches Moscow?

What do Iraq and Syria have to do with Ukraine? Are you ill in your head???


It was a big crowd for ONE day. All the OTHER 180 DAYS

It is another blatant lie. You are simply a lying woman. A waste of time on my part indeed.

Carl
12-06-2014, 20:15
Oh, I see you edited 5 million to 500,000. Actually it was more like 5000 arsonists and snipers. Yes, Chocolate King is marching in EU ordered-goosesteps and USA is supplying not weapons but everything else (uniforms, meds, food, supplies), so Kiev has more money to buy weapons.



The meddling is not blatant, unless you forget about the US Navy in the Black Sea, the US air force moving war planes to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, more NATO missiles going to Poland.

You don't remember NATO-US annexing a piece of Serbia (Kosovo) and calling it their own, either. Or arming Shaakashvili and encouraging him to bomb apartment buildings in South Ossetia.



Your memory needs some repair. Maybe you can find some (non-Christian) therapy, such as electroshock.

I know someone who contracts at IMF in Washington. The money-crats are not planning anything that will interfere with their continued rich, fat-cat lifestyles.:10518:

(This means they couldn't care less about what happens to Ukraine or anyplace else), as along as they can continue to fly First Class. :plane:

Fantastika,
Do you ever plan to return to Russia? It seems to me that you really do despise the United States. What's keeping you there?

TolkoRaz
12-06-2014, 20:22
Many people despise the US of A's Foreign Policy which is slightly different to despising America or Americans - sometimes it is better to sleep with the enemy! ;)

Carl
12-06-2014, 20:31
Many people despise the US of A's Foreign Policy which is slightly different to despising America or Americans - sometimes it is better to sleep with the enemy! ;)

In what circumstances would you say it's better to sleep with the enemy?

TolkoRaz
12-06-2014, 20:34
To understand the enemy and seek to influence the mindset is an old tradition, but check for guns under the pillow or below the bed before stripping off! ;)

Alan65
12-06-2014, 20:36
To understand the enemy and seek to influence the mindset is an old tradition, but check for guns under the pillow or below the bed before stripping off! ;)

With all of the photos that I have seen of Slovyansk.....nothing seems to have changed, it still seems like a sh!thole.

I am sure there must be something good about Slovyansk....perhaps they make vodka there, perhaps that is why Russia wants it.

TolkoRaz
12-06-2014, 20:41
if the russians in eastern ukraine are dissatisfied. they should use the ballot box instead of the rifle . and abide by the outcome.

Taking up the Kalashnikov and RPG pays well - a daily rate of $500 is being paid for 'separatists' to fight the UKR Army who are calling up Reservists because they have no standing Army. In recent years, they cut the soldiers and retained the Officers, now it is top heavy with not enough bayonets. Civilians from Kyiv etc are being drafted to fight the very well trained and experienced ' separatists'. Sadly, the boys sent to the East on Kyiv's orders are ill-equipped, poorly prepared and very inexperienced! As such, many are unlikely to return home.

Carl
12-06-2014, 20:53
Taking up the Kalashnikov and RPG pays well - a daily rate of $500 is being paid for 'separatists' t

Who's paying?
Here I thought all along the "separatists" was just your average "Joe" who had reached the breaking point under the UKR regime..and were fighting for the lives of their families from the onslaught of a bunch of blood thirsty nazis. You seem to have a different take on things there than the Russian media Tolka. You mean they've been telling us is a bunch of lies all along?
What's up with that?

TolkoRaz
12-06-2014, 20:57
It is no secret who is funding both sides! ;)

Judge
12-06-2014, 21:26
Many people despise the US of A's Foreign Policy which is slightly different to despising America or Americans - sometimes it is better to sleep with the enemy! ;)

That policy is working wonders in Iraq right now.

TolkoRaz
12-06-2014, 21:30
That policy is working wonders Iraq right now.

Yes, the US of A will soon be recommending a bombing campaign before ISIL reach Southern Baghdad - Mosul & Tikrit have fallen, Baggers will soon be under threat.

PJB
12-06-2014, 22:29
Fantastika,
Do you ever plan to return to Russia? It seems to me that you really do despise the United States. What's keeping you there?

Clean water, dishwashing machine, modern clothes wash and dry machine, a nice car to drive, a 2 car garage to park that nice car, good roads all over the country to drive on, good job, good income, 3 bedroom 2 bath house with heat and air conditioning that you can turn on/off and up/down as you like, home with clean hot water that never gets turned off by the city, modern healthcare, modern dental care, and the freedom to stand in any public place with an "Obama is a @#&* " placard and not be arrested.;)

Judge
12-06-2014, 23:45
Clean water, dishwashing machine, modern clothes wash and dry machine, a nice car to drive, a 2 car garage to park that nice car, good roads all over the country to drive on, good job, good income, 3 bedroom 2 bath house with heat and air conditioning that you can turn on/off and up/down as you like, home with clean hot water that never gets turned off by the city, modern healthcare, modern dental care, and the freedom to stand in any public place with an "Obama is a @#&* " placard and not be arrested.;)

Amazing!!!
Do all yanks really live that good?

Russian Lad
12-06-2014, 23:53
Taking up the Kalashnikov and RPG pays well - a daily rate of $500 is being paid for 'separatists' to fight the UKR Army who are calling up Reservists because they have no standing Army. In recent years, they cut the soldiers and retained the Officers, now it is top heavy with not enough bayonets. Civilians from Kyiv etc are being drafted to fight the very well trained and experienced ' separatists'. Sadly, the boys sent to the East on Kyiv's orders are ill-equipped, poorly prepared and very inexperienced! As such, many are unlikely to return home.

Well, it is good that you have started telling us the truth finally, or at least most of it (some Ukr soldiers are well-trained, quite a bunch of helicopter pilots came from their mission abroad as I understand).:) It is not that I believed you even when you told me that all of the fighting is done by local boys you have seen an RPG only on television.:) Those who pose for the Russian news, do they hide them in a dimly lit cellar after the filming of "лапша для идиотов" is done with, or they guard the kitchen?:)

PJB
13-06-2014, 02:33
Amazing!!!
Do all yanks really live that good?

That's why all those Russian Brides are advertising for American husbands. :)

Russian Lad
13-06-2014, 03:35
That's why all those Russian Brides are advertising for American husbands.

A good point, I expect the coming 2-3 years to bring this market up to a whole new level thanks to the current developments and the developments that will inevitably follow, both in Russia and in Ukraine. Sadly, the current Russia is making the same mistakes as the former USSR (these mistakes are much worse and way more sinister than in the USSR even, if you ask me), the price to pay will be exorbitant, the consequences - shattering. Only in Ukraine over 30 million enemies of the state have been forged in two months - most ordinary Ukrainians hate and despise us now with all their heart, at least the collective "us" that denies them sovereignty and welcomes what is being done, a dumb but overwhealming majority that will pay a heavy price for their swinish attitudes of ungrounded superiority to their large neighbor. It is totally irresponsible and will have dire results for the Russian economy in not that long a run.

TolkoRaz
13-06-2014, 10:56
A good point, I expect the coming 2-3 years to bring this market up to a whole new level thanks to the current developments and the developments that will inevitably follow, both in Russia and in Ukraine. Sadly, the current Russia is making the same mistakes as the former USSR (these mistakes are much worse and way more sinister than in the USSR even, if you ask me), the price to pay will be exorbitant, the consequences - shattering. Only in Ukraine over 30 million enemies of the state have been forged in two months - most ordinary Ukrainians hate and despise us now with all their heart, at least the collective "us" that denies them sovereignty and welcomes what is being done, a dumb but overwhealming majority that will pay a heavy price for their swinish attitudes of ungrounded superiority to their large neighbor. It is totally irresponsible and will have dire results for the Russian economy in not that long a run.

Totally untrue RusskiLad - Most Ukrainians I have spoken on to on recent trips not only in the East, but also in Kyiv, have no problem with Russians, most still actually speak Russian in everyday conversation. Their newspapers might be in Ukrainian, but Russian is used everywhere and in most situations, including amongst families.

The majority understand that this situation has been created by external actors for geopolitical reasons and once again it is the ordinary citizens who are paying the price for the higher games being played by those outside of the UKR :10310:

Russian Lad
13-06-2014, 15:17
Totally untrue RusskiLad - Most Ukrainians I have spoken on to on recent trips not only in the East, but also in Kyiv, have no problem with Russians, most still actually speak Russian in everyday conversation. Their newspapers might be in Ukrainian, but Russian is used everywhere and in most situations, including amongst families.

The language situation - I am well aware of that, go tell that to the mainstream Russian media. Other than that, I attend many Ukrainian forums and clearly see that they (both Russian and Ukrianian speaking Ukrainians) hate what the Russian government is doing and those Russians who support such actions (80% of the Russian population here in Russia). So, no need to even the corners now that there are truckloads of corpses and annexed&terrorized territories. The price to pay will be heavy and sobering up of most delusional Russians even here on this forum - mercilessly brutal, through their swinish stomachs since they failed to engage their brains when the situation was commanding it.

Now there are even tanks there, what, they found them at the local police station too? Disgusting.

Ук€аина.Снежное.Рƒсские ‚анки в го€оде.’идео.Россия пе€еб€ас‹вае‚ воо€ƒжения на ”онбасс из š€‹ма - YouTube

TolkoRaz
13-06-2014, 21:41
The language situation - I am well aware of that, go tell that to the mainstream Russian media. Other than that, I attend many Ukrainian forums and clearly see that they (both Russian and Ukrianian speaking Ukrainians) hate what the Russian government is doing and those Russians who support such actions (80% of the Russian population here in Russia). So, no need to even the corners now that there are truckloads of corpses and annexed&terrorized territories. The price to pay will be heavy and sobering up of most delusional Russians even here on this forum - mercilessly brutal, through their swinish stomachs since they failed to engage their brains when the situation was commanding it.

You write like a mad Ayatollah! :eek:

FatAndy
13-06-2014, 21:56
You write like a mad Ayatollah! :eek:
RL is a bit infected with virus called "Maidan of a brain"... though I sincerely hope his immune system will overcome ;)


Now there are even tanks there, what, they found them at the local police station too? Disgusting.
No, hired from so called UkroArmy, the same way as BMDs under Slavyansk and Kramatorsk.


Disgusting.
Fully agree with you regarding so called UkroArmy. ;)

TolkoRaz
13-06-2014, 22:18
The language situation - I am well aware of that, go tell that to the mainstream Russian media. Other than that, I attend many Ukrainian forums and clearly see that they (both Russian and Ukrianian speaking Ukrainians) hate what the Russian government is doing and those Russians who support such actions (80% of the Russian population here in Russia). So, no need to even the corners now that there are truckloads of corpses and annexed&terrorized territories. The price to pay will be heavy and sobering up of most delusional Russians even here on this forum - mercilessly brutal, through their swinish stomachs since they failed to engage their brains when the situation was commanding it.

Now there are even tanks there, what, they found them at the local police station too? Disgusting.

Ук€аина.Снежное.Рƒсские ‚анки в го€оде.’идео.Россия пе€еб€ас‹вае‚ воо€ƒжения на ”онбасс из š€‹ма - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsZPyM9nNFw)

Isn't it interesting how the tanks were first widely reported by all Imperialist media outlets as T-72 tanks, only used by the Russians and therefore Russian, probably 'from The Krim'. Now it has been confirmed that they were T-64 tanks which had come from the UKR army! ;)

Even an amateur could see that they were T-64s! :book:

Russian Lad
13-06-2014, 22:22
Isn't it interesting how the tanks were first widely reported by all Imperialist media outlets as T-72 tanks, only used by the Russians and therefore Russian, probably form The Krim. Now it has been confirmed that they were T-64 tanks which had come from the UKR army!

Even an amateur could see that they were T-64s!

Even if they are the Ukr ones there are tons of the evidence of direct Russian meddling. Are you trying to deny the obvious?


RL is a bit infected with virus called "Maidan of a brain"... though I sincerely hope his immune system will overcome

I want the virus to spread.:)


Even an amateur could see that they were T-64s!

So, it is T-64, most likely from Krim. The US State Department is saying Russia has also supplied BM-21 (Grad) to the rebels. I have no reason or grounds to believe they are lying by making this serious accusation. Severe sanctions are long overdue, it is time for the world to stop this madness. Continuing being Chamberlainish with an appeasement policy will only embolden the aggressor further, Europe should join in and harm its interests to avoid more severe disasters that are surely in the pipeline otherwise.

PJB
14-06-2014, 09:36
VVP will continue to keep everyone's attention on Ukraine so they don't pay attention to what is going on in Russia.
How come the Russians are so pro Putin when every week there is a new law enacted that takes away their rights and freedoms?

quincy
14-06-2014, 11:27
How come the Russians are so pro Putin when every week there is a new law enacted that takes away their rights and freedoms?

Why are you concerned about them?

Are you concerned about the millions who don't have the basic right to daily minimum food ?

Are you concerned about the millions who don't have the basic right to security, thanks to western military and political interventions?

Have you thought that your attention is controlled by the agendas of corporate media channels?

TolkoRaz
14-06-2014, 11:28
US of A 'attention' has now switched to Iraq and the ISIL extremist Sunni advances towards Baghdad - this can only be good news for VVP! ;)

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 12:06
I want the virus to spread.:)
Every infected wants, it is the special character of the disease. Be aware of strict quarantine measures, they may be introduced shortly, if the disease will be recognised as especially dangerous.;)


So, it is T-64, most likely from Krim. The US State Department is saying Russia has also supplied BM-21 (Grad) to the rebels. I have no reason or grounds to believe they are lying by making this serious accusation. Severe sanctions are long overdue, it is time for the world to stop this madness. Continuing being Chamberlainish with an appeasement policy will only embolden the aggressor further, Europe should join in and harm its interests to avoid more severe disasters that are surely in the pipeline otherwise.
You should try to write for Novaya gazeta or go on air at Uho matzy ;)

Russian Lad
14-06-2014, 12:15
edit


Be aware of strict quarantine measures, they may be introduced shortly, if the disease will be recognised as especially dangerous.

Andy, do women like Mizulina wind you up? I am just curious. :gay: Here she is, demanding Gruz200 refrigerators from Ukraine...

•.œизƒлина в э„и€е ’“ТРš об о‚п€авке доб€оволŒ†ев - YouTube

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 12:20
How come the Russians are so pro Putin when every week there is a new law enacted that takes away their rights and freedoms?
Maybe the Russians just know something non-available for you? ;)
And so called "rights and freedoms" are our and only our f@#$%& business. :)

Russian Lad
14-06-2014, 12:22
Maybe the Russians just know something non-available for you?

The Russians vote with their stomachs, at least that's what they think. What is funny, they only have the illusion their stomachs are filled, in reality it is far from the truth.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 12:25
Andy, do women like Mizulina wind you up? I am just curious. :gay: Here she is, demanding Gruz200 refrigerators from Ukraine...
Don't watch TV, it aggravates the course of your disease ;)

Russian Lad
14-06-2014, 12:35
Don't watch TV, it aggravates the course of your disease

I don't think it is a disease. But if I am right or wrong, we need some time to figure it out, one-two years. The stomachs must be cleaned first, empty stomachs help clearing minds. Most of these stomachs are stuffed with unhealthy food anyway, it affects the brain.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 13:56
we need some time to figure it out, one-two years. The stomachs must be cleaned first, empty stomachs help clearing minds. Most of these stomachs are stuffed with unhealthy food anyway, it affects the brain.
Well... I hear the song already 20+ years ;)

Back to the topic, LNR/DNR soldiers have shot Il-76 of UkroArmy, carrying 3 BMDs, ammo, food, sniper group and other paratroopers (totally 40 soldiers + 9 crew members dead), which tried to land at Lugansk airport.

I wonder, how many crews left in UkroArmy?

Do they understand Sweet and other oligarchs use them as a cannon meat?

TolkoRaz
14-06-2014, 14:49
Well... I hear the song already 20+ years ;)

Back to the topic, LNR/DNR soldiers have shot Il-76 of UkroArmy, carrying 3 BMDs, ammo, food, sniper group and other paratroopers (totally 40 soldiers + 9 crew members dead), which tried to land at Lugansk airport.

I wonder, how many crews left in UkroArmy?

Do they understand Sweet and other oligarchs use them as a cannon meat?

It is very sad that so many died; a total waste of life. But yet again the incompetent & ill-equipped UKR Air Force is still flying helicopters and planes without the correct counter-measures fitted to the airframes.

How many more aircraft and men must they loose before they realise that they must cease all flights until they can safeguard their limited number of capable troops.

fenrir
14-06-2014, 15:07
Well... I hear the song already 20+ years ;)

Back to the topic, LNR/DNR soldiers have shot Il-76 of UkroArmy, carrying 3 BMDs, ammo, food, sniper group and other paratroopers (totally 40 soldiers + 9 crew members dead), which tried to land at Lugansk airport.

I wonder, how many crews left in UkroArmy?

Do they understand Sweet and other oligarchs use them as a cannon meat?

Do you understand what kind of payback is going to happen when the Ukrainian forces finally put down the rebellion? I wouldn't advise any pro-Russian types to surrender. It won't go well for them if they do. Better to put a bullet through their own heads.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 15:25
Do you understand what kind of payback is going to happen when the Ukrainian forces finally put down the rebellion? I wouldn't advise any pro-Russian types to surrender. It won't go well for them if they do. Better to put a bullet through their own heads.
For the moment UkroArmy is impotent to do it. And I think the situation won't change.
People from Western areas deny to serve at East.

How is defense situation in ESStonia, btw? Have they already received second-hand armoured vehicles from Holland? ;)

Carl
14-06-2014, 15:50
How is defense situation in ESStonia, btw? Have they already received second-hand armoured vehicles from Holland? ;)

Why should the defense situation of Estonia concern anyone? You really don't think VVP would try to breach the territorial sovereignty of an EU/NATO county, do you?:focus: I kinda doubt it...

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 18:39
You really don't think VVP would try to breach the territorial sovereignty of an EU/NATO county, do you?:focus: I kinda doubt it...
VVP himself - definitely no, at least in the current situation ;)

County? - very well said, Carl... :thumbsup:

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 19:11
Update:
UkroArmy Su-24 was shot down today as well under Gorlovka, pilot parachuted and detained by DNR soldiers.

In Mariupol UkroArmy trucks with border patrol officers were attacked by DNR, 5 dead, 7 injured.

Angry maidowns are piqueting RF embassy in Kiev. With tyres and eggs.

quincy
14-06-2014, 19:19
Angry maidowns are piqueting RF embassy in Kiev. With tyres and eggs.

They should be picketing the US embassy and NATO offices for telling them to go to war against eastern Ukraine

It is obvious to everyone except those who want war that a multi-ethnic country like Ukraine needs a federal solution

Russian Lad
14-06-2014, 19:28
Earthquake happened in Kyev today, a few cars were overturned by the wind.

šиев Российское посолŒс‚во œай”аƒн‹ пе€еве€нƒли маˆин‹ послов. - YouTube


It is obvious to everyone except those who want war that a multi-ethnic country like Ukraine needs a federal solution

For what exactly? Don't sell me the language part, the central authorities are ready to guarantee it on the regional level without federalization, they have even agreed on a degree of decentralization.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 19:29
They should be picketing the US embassy and NATO offices for telling them to go to war against eastern Ukraine
How dogs may bark to bosses?


It is obvious to everyone except those who want war that a multi-ethnic country like Ukraine needs a federal solution
Not so multi-etnic, as multi-ideology one. Banderlogia on the West, Maidownia in the center and Novorossia on SE.

TolkoRaz
14-06-2014, 19:29
Do you understand what kind of payback is going to happen when the Ukrainian forces finally put down the rebellion? I wouldn't advise any pro-Russian types to surrender. It won't go well for them if they do. Better to put a bullet through their own heads.

Now that is a really good reason to stop fighting and to give up one's arms! :eek:

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 19:33
šиев Российское посолŒс‚во œай”аƒн‹ пе€еве€нƒли маˆин‹ послов. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9W5Char5Tw)

One word - maidowns... :snoring:


Now that is a really good reason to stop fighting and to give up one's arms! :eek:
They've started it already, hiring out BMDs to DNR/LNR. Then the process was a bit braked. Now I expect the new wave.

Кац всегда предлагал ... - YouTube

TolkoRaz
14-06-2014, 19:35
They should be picketing the US embassy and NATO offices for telling them to go to war against eastern Ukraine

It is obvious to everyone except those who want war that a multi-ethnic country like Ukraine needs a federal solution

This is now becoming a major challenge for Poroshenko. His Forces are ill-equipped; professional as well as Reservists are being killed daily. This is a huge test of his leadership which I suspect will be tested when the streets of Kyiv are filled by the mothers & fathers calling a halt to this slaughter - they cannot keep sending men to their death in badly conceived operations, leaving them in isolated outposts waiting to be attacked by superior Forces whilst at the same equipping their poorly trained personnel.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 19:46
This is a huge test of his leadership which I suspect will be tested when the streets of Kyiv are filled by the mothers & fathers calling a halt to this slaughter - they cannot keep sending men to their death in badly conceived operations, leaving them in isolated outposts waiting to be attacked by superior Forces whilst at the same equipping their poorly trained personnel.
Poroshenko paid maidowns not for future tests of his leadership. He paid for his instant and uninterruptible access to the "state trough".

Now the decision will be the result of the struggle between his greed and his nonsense.

PJB
14-06-2014, 20:16
Maybe the Russians just know something non-available for you? ;)
And so called "rights and freedoms" are our and only our f@#$%& business. :)

And also the business of all of us who have Russian family and property.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 20:31
And also the business of all of us who have Russian family and property.
No doubts.

PJB
14-06-2014, 20:32
Why are you concerned about them?

Are you concerned about the millions who don't have the basic right to daily minimum food ?

Are you concerned about the millions who don't have the basic right to security, thanks to western military and political interventions?

Have you thought that your attention is controlled by the agendas of corporate media channels?

I am concerned that my Russian Relatives have to keep working at the age of 80 because their pension is too low to survive.

I am concerned that my Russian friends and relatives could get arrested or lose their jobs for not being "patriotic" enough.

I am concerned that the Russian media's continuous vilification of the West is causing mixed Russian/Western families to feel threatened.

PJB
14-06-2014, 20:36
US of A 'attention' has now switched to Iraq and the ISIL extremist Sunni advances towards Baghdad - this can only be good news for VVP! ;)

VVP is now doing The Happy Dance!:mml:

Alan65
14-06-2014, 20:37
This is now becoming a major challenge for Poroshenko. His Forces are ill-equipped; professional as well as Reservists are being killed daily. This is a huge test of his leadership which I suspect will be tested when the streets of Kyiv are filled by the mothers & fathers calling a halt to this slaughter - they cannot keep sending men to their death in badly conceived operations, leaving them in isolated outposts waiting to be attacked by superior Forces whilst at the same equipping their poorly trained personnel.

On the contrary. ..why do so many Russians want to be Europeans....
I give you Natlee and her child as an example. ..I give you.Vossywife and her 10 year British visa...i give you Vicy...and her 5 year British visa.

Russia is a dead regime. ..Putin lost eastern europe on his watch. ..he has now lost Ukraine on his watch...we only have to wait 25 years. .
Then we will take Kallingrad and Belorussia

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 20:41
I am concerned that my Russian Relatives have to keep working at the age of 80 because their pension is too low to survive.

I am concerned that my Russian friends and relatives could get arrested or lose their jobs for not being "patriotic" enough.

I am concerned that the Russian media's continuous vilification of the West is causing mixed Russian/Western families to feel threatened.
It seems to me two last "concerns" are... how to say... not false, but very close to it... ;)

fenrir
14-06-2014, 20:46
How is defense situation in ESStonia, btw? Have they already received second-hand armoured vehicles from Holland? ;)

We're not too worried about Putler or ruSSia these days. There are 25 NATO warplanes on our airbase in the west of the country and some detachments of US SEALS and Delta Force are here training the local forces and will remain until at least the end of the year. There is talk of a permanent NATO base. Putler and his behavior will determine if that happens.

PJB
14-06-2014, 20:47
It seems to me two last "concerns" are... how to say... not false, but very close to it... ;)

Older relatives know to keep their mouths shut, younger ones not so much.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 20:55
We're not too worried about Putler or ruSSia these days.
And it's VERY good ;) This means, rests of common sense are still present.


There are 25 NATO warplanes on our airbase in the west of the country
A HUGE power, indeed... you said, on the single base? ;)


and some detachments of US SEALS and Delta Force are here training the local forces
Are there any positive results?


There is talk of a permanent NATO base.
It has started yet in 199x, IIRC. Will the local population be happy to be under instant Iskander threat, if the base will be built? ;)


Putler and his behavior will determine if that happens.
So, Estonians won't determine? ;)

Russian Lad
14-06-2014, 21:06
I am concerned that my Russian friends and relatives could get arrested or lose their jobs for not being "patriotic" enough.

I am concerned that the Russian media's continuous vilification of the West is causing mixed Russian/Western families to feel threatened.
It seems to me two last "concerns" are... how to say... not false, but very close to it...

They are false only because neototalitarism (the current regime in Russia) works differently. It will fail shortly though, there are simply too many negative factors and too many powerful actors playing against it.
Meanwhile, the Iranians are being given the green light and the sanctions are being lifted, wonder how much oil and gas they can cough up to the global market.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 21:17
we only have to wait 25 years. .
Then we will take Kallingrad and Belorussia
Let it be your sweet wet dream for upcoming 25 years... :)


Older relatives know to keep their mouths shut, younger ones not so much.
Very good. And how many younger ones were fired or arrested for "non-patriotism" already? :suspect:


It will fail shortly though, there are simply too many negative factors and too many powerful actors playing against it.
And this song I hear more than 10 years ;)

Russian Lad
14-06-2014, 21:20
And this song I hear more than 10 years

10 years??? The regime is like two months old. It was kleptocracy before, it has evolved into neototalitarism, and it happened very recently. As a kleptocracy it could live on for a decade or two I think. Now - it will be fast. Iran is #3 global oil and gas producer. Get ready for some serious fun.

fenrir
14-06-2014, 21:26
And it's VERY good ;) This means, rests of common sense are still present.


A HUGE power, indeed... you said, on the single base? ;)


Are there any positive results?


It has started yet in 199x, IIRC. Will the local population be happy to be under instant Iskander threat, if the base will be built? ;)


So, Estonians won't determine? ;)

1: Yes, at one base. The last squadron to arrive put it at its maximum capacity. That number is not permanent. It fluctuates depending on various exercises going on and any messages that are being sent to Moscow.

2: Positive results? Of course. Getting trained by the best in the business can't be negative!

3: The Iskander threat is always there, base or no base. The base is to repel a land attack. Obama has sent more Aegis-equipped ships to deal with missile threats. If Putler gets too uppity, he might provoke the US back into the missile shield scheme and that could lead to a serious arms war.

FatAndy
14-06-2014, 21:47
1: Yes, at one base. The last squadron to arrive put it at its maximum capacity.
:thumbsup:


Getting trained by the best in the business can't be negative!
:)


3: The Iskander threat is always there, base or no base.
Very probably yes, but with base it will be much harder. Are average Estonians ready?


Obama has sent more Aegis-equipped ships to deal with missile threats.
Yes, I heard - to the shores of Belorussia. :)


he might provoke the US back into the missile shield scheme and that could lead to a serious arms war.
Will see ;)

Carl
14-06-2014, 23:26
I am concerned that my Russian Relatives have to keep working at the age of 80 because their pension is too low to survive.

I am concerned that my Russian friends and relatives could get arrested or lose their jobs for not being "patriotic" enough.

I am concerned that the Russian media's continuous vilification of the West is causing mixed Russian/Western families to feel threatened.


It seems to me two last "concerns" are... how to say... not false, but very close to it... ;)

So, you have first hand knowledge here FatAndy? You have a mixed Russian/Western family? If not, kind of presumptuous to say their concerns are close to false... Nyet?:suspect:

vossy7
15-06-2014, 00:08
Russians will always find a way ,they are the most resilient people I have ever met in my life and I love them for that.......as my father used to say f#%^ the begrudgers!

quincy
15-06-2014, 00:11
I am concerned that my Russian Relatives have to keep working at the age of 80 because their pension is too low to survive.

I am concerned that my Russian friends and relatives could get arrested or lose their jobs for not being "patriotic" enough.

I am concerned that the Russian media's continuous vilification of the West is causing mixed Russian/Western families to feel threatened.

Why do you think the Western media's vilification of Russia is irrelevant?

Its capacity to vilify a country or its leader is vastly greater

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 00:14
Fantastika,
Do you ever plan to return to Russia? It seems to me that you really do despise the United States. What's keeping you there?

I love the USA, I despise bigots, racists, sexists, heterophobes, Christian-bashers, terrorist-supporters, illegal-immigrant criminals (1 million now in US prisons) Obama and Holder supporters, stupid people, low information voters, criminals, lazy people who sit on their fat behinds and loot the treasury, know-nothing, name-calling, pea-brain posters who ignore the text of a comment and instead throw cow manure replies, and other anti-social ignoramuses.

How many of these categories do you fit in?

vossy7
15-06-2014, 00:16
I love the USA, I despise bigots, racists, sexists, heterophobes, Christian-bashers, terrorist-supporters, illegal-immigrant criminals (1 million now in US prisons) Obama and Holder supporters, stupid people, low information voters, criminals, lazy people who sit on their fat behinds and loot the treasury, know-nothing name-calling posters who have pea-brains and other anti-social ignoramuses.

How many of these categories do you fit in?

Jesus F .....get off the fence!

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 00:21
What do Iraq and Syria have to do with Ukraine? Are you ill in your head???

It is another blatant lie. You are simply a lying woman. A waste of time on my part indeed.

At least you can make up your own words in reply, instead of copying mine. And it is truly a "waste of my time," since you always have to throw personal attacks e.g. "are you ill in the head" instead of replying in any cogent manner to anything posted.

I was matching (agreeing with) your antagonistic attitude in the hope of pulling you up to a better attitude, say "mild acceptance of other people's opinions" but you want to remain hostile. So stay there in your bad attitude, I give up.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 00:27
Why should the defense situation of Estonia concern anyone? You really don't think VVP would try to breach the territorial sovereignty of an EU/NATO county, do you?:focus: I kinda doubt it...

OH, yeah, sure...NATO is sending troops to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, missiles to Polandia, warships to Black Sea, within a mile of Russia, but US is worried about Russian troops, they are too close to their own border!

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 00:36
In what circumstances would you say it's better to sleep with the enemy?

Well, let's see. In Syria, Obama is supplying missiles and heavy weapons to the ISIS Al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorists.

In neighboring Iraq, Obama is supplying missiles and heavy weapons to the government, in opposition to the ISIS Al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorists.

So maybe you are right, the US is not sleeping with the enemy, because Obama can't decide who the enemy is...

PJB
15-06-2014, 02:22
Why do you think the Western media's vilification of Russia is irrelevant?

Its capacity to vilify a country or its leader is vastly greater

After the first few weeks of Crimea excitement the American TV and papers have had very little news about Russia or Ukraine. An occasional story on the elections, a few lines on the back page and that's it. Very few Americans are paying any attention to Russia and certainly not saying anything bad about Russia or Russians.

All of the bad news about Russia is found in the Russian press.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 06:03
After the first few weeks of Crimea excitement the American TV and papers have had very little news about Russia or Ukraine. An occasional story on the elections, a few lines on the back page and that's it. Very few Americans are paying any attention to Russia and certainly not saying anything bad about Russia or Russians.

All of the bad news about Russia is found in the Russian press.

Well, it seems that when the American media does a typical Russia-bashing story, they are now closing the comments section. When they do allow comments, it turns out that 40%-60% of the comments, by Americans, oppose the story, punch holes in it, and oppose the yellow journalism exhortations vilifying Russia, and oppose Obama.

Russians and Americans are sick and tired of biased media.

Russian Lad
15-06-2014, 06:48
Well, let's see. In Syria, Obama is supplying missiles and heavy weapons to the ISIS Al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorists.

In neighboring Iraq, Obama is supplying missiles and heavy weapons to the government, in opposition to the ISIS Al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorists.

IN Syria there is a bloody dictator in power though who has ruled his country with an iron fist and murdered those who opposed him. Is a dictator in power in Iraq? You seem to be venting your frustration with Obama on this forum, while still preferring to remain in the US. Come to Russia, put your deeds where your words are or they are worth nothing, just like Okiey's words are worth nothing, who lost a bet and didn't bother to pay, - let's overcome the hardships of everyday life and enjoy the neototalitarism together, celebrating with a few beers every time another Ukrainian soldier is murdered and another Ukrainian city is seized by [-]terrorists[/-] pro-Russian freedom fighters.

PJB
15-06-2014, 07:13
Well, it seems that when the American media does a typical Russia-bashing story, they are now closing the comments section. When they do allow comments, it turns out that 40%-60% of the comments, by Americans, oppose the story, punch holes in it, and oppose the yellow journalism exhortations vilifying Russia, and oppose Obama.

Russians and Americans are sick and tired of biased media.

Please post a link to these Russian bashing stories so we can all see who is writing what.

Carl
15-06-2014, 08:04
I love the USA, I despise bigots, racists, sexists, heterophobes, Christian-bashers, terrorist-supporters, illegal-immigrant criminals (1 million now in US prisons) Obama and Holder supporters, stupid people, low information voters, criminals, lazy people who sit on their fat behinds and loot the treasury, know-nothing, name-calling, pea-brain posters who ignore the text of a comment and instead throw cow manure replies, and other anti-social ignoramuses.

How many of these categories do you fit in?

So..,you love the US, but despise the majority of Americans? Is that about right?
I think Obama is better than that Mitt character, So I guess I do fit into one of your categories..but in this case, I don't mind being despised..

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 09:05
Please post a link to these Russian bashing stories so we can all see who is writing what.

Go to Google "news" - New York Daily News, NY Slimes, Washington (com)Post, LA Times, AP, Euronews, BBC, CNN, and other inflammatory shiny stars (or black holes) of yellow journalism?

You want me to go line-by-line through a typical Western media Russia-bashing "news" story; phrase-by-phrase? Even their choice of words? The deceptions, the spin, the twists, the omissions, the outright lies, the perversions of facts and data?

It's hard for me to believe everyone can't see the bias. Or maybe they do.

Seriously, no one can see the prejudice? It's blatant to me.

Well, maybe I will detail one later, it's a good exercise in logic.

Just pick one at random, and I will gladly skewer it. I've done this before, have someone pick a story in the newspaper, then I detailed all the distortions and omissions, the lies. I tried it with my parents, but they are zombies when it comes to their "news."

To tell the truth, I rarely read any of the Russia-bashing stories. I start to, then I stop when I spot a lie, or a perversion, or a purposeful omission. I never get past the first paragraph. Sometimes the headline is enough.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 09:18
So..,you love the US, but despise the majority of Americans? Is that about right?
I think Obama is better than that Mitt character, So I guess I do fit into one of your categories..but in this case, I don't mind being despised..

No that's not even close to "about right." You can't even define the word "better".

Which categories do you fit into? Who cares? What is your problem with America the Beautiful? Don't bother to answer, and I know you have no answer. Obama voters are all America-bashers - America is a bad country, and Obama is getting SOCIAL JUSTICE for all the evil acts that evil white males have perpetrated upon women, upon blacks, upon homosexuals, upon the poor, and those evil white males, like George Washington, stole this great land from the socially advanced Indians, too.

So what are you going to have in a few years? A moral sewer, a police state, a social anarchy run by a corrupt government; a bunch of racial, ethnic, sexist tribes arguing over who gets what little is left after Obama's trillion-dollar spending to right the wrongs of this evil country have plunged it into the biggest bankruptcy of all time.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 09:37
IN Syria there is a bloody dictator in power though who has ruled his country with an iron fist and murdered those who opposed him...

And it's better to have chaos and anarchy, the lawlessness of the jungle?

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 10:22
So, you have first hand knowledge here FatAndy? You have a mixed Russian/Western family? If not, kind of presumptuous to say their concerns are close to false... Nyet?:suspect:
I said - it seems to me. ;) PJB is only member here who raised the questions. So either she has extremely unlucky situation especially in her environment, or... or? :)

Do you have similar experience? If so, how many of your Russian friends/colleagues were fired/arrested for "non-patriotism"?

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 10:26
Back to topic - night artillery attack onto Semenovka and Cherevkovka (Slavyansk suburbs) caused one killed and several injured, RBC reports on DNR data. Water and electricity still are off there.

Maidown's attack onto RF embassy in Kiev was probably conducted by "Azov" batallion, pocket army of oligarch Igor "Benya" Kolomoisky, sources in Ukrainian Internal affairs ministry say.

quincy
15-06-2014, 10:28
Go to Google "news" - New York Daily News, NY Slimes, Washington (com)Post, LA Times, AP, Euronews, BBC, CNN, and other inflammatory shiny stars (or black holes) of yellow journalism?

You want me to go line-by-line through a typical Western media Russia-bashing "news" story; phrase-by-phrase? Even their choice of words? The deceptions, the spin, the twists, the omissions, the outright lies, the perversions of facts and data?

It's hard for me to believe everyone can't see the bias. Or maybe they do.

Seriously, no one can see the prejudice? It's blatant to me.

Well, maybe I will detail one later, it's a good exercise in logic.

Just pick one at random, and I will gladly skewer it. I've done this before, have someone pick a story in the newspaper, then I detailed all the distortions and omissions, the lies. I tried it with my parents, but they are zombies when it comes to their "news."

To tell the truth, I rarely read any of the Russia-bashing stories. I start to, then I stop when I spot a lie, or a perversion, or a purposeful omission. I never get past the first paragraph. Sometimes the headline is enough.

You said it all! Especially your last sentence. Sometimes whole stories are completely avoided, such as Clinton's bombing of Sudan depriving millions of people there of medicine, causing the deaths of thousands. This crime is not discussed

fenrir
15-06-2014, 10:29
OH, yeah, sure...NATO is sending troops to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, missiles to Polandia, warships to Black Sea, within a mile of Russia, but US is worried about Russian troops, they are too close to their own border!

You are an intelligent, if very angry, person, so I don't know why you don't understand the situation. NATO's main conventional strength is centered in Western Europe and the US mainland. If Russia moves forces too close to NATO members' borders, it creates a situation where Moscow can launch a lightning attack and occupy several NATO member states before any significant NATO ground forces can leave their bases in the West. To prevent or at least discourage such an attack, NATO needs to move some of its forces forward. Remember, NATO is just moving forces within ITS own territory too. That game play both ways.

You are nice and safe back in the States but I live a three-hour drive from the Russian border, so I am a bit more concerned about this than you probably are. I for one, along with virtually every non-Russian I know here, am happy with the recent NATO deployments.

TolkoRaz
15-06-2014, 10:53
Russians and Americans are sick and tired of biased media.

I am not sure that the majority of Americans understand biased media; they seem to swallow and believe what they are told! :10310:


Back to topic - night artillery attack onto Semenovka and Cherevkovka (Slavyansk suburbs) caused one killed and several injured, RBC reports on DNR data. Water and electricity still are off there.

Maidown's attack onto RF embassy in Kiev was probably conducted by "Azov" batallion, pocket army of oligarch Igor "Benya" Kolomoisky, sources in Ukrainian Internal affairs ministry say.

Lets hope that the 'Vostock Battalion' does not visit Kyiv!


You are an intelligent, if very angry, person, so I don't know why you don't understand the situation. NATO's main conventional strength is centered in Western Europe and the US mainland. If Russia moves forces too close to NATO members' borders, it creates a situation where Moscow can launch a lightning attack and occupy several NATO member states before any significant NATO ground forces can leave their bases in the West. To prevent or at least discourage such an attack, NATO needs to move some of its forces forward. Remember, NATO is just moving forces within ITS own territory too. That game play both ways.

You are nice and safe back in the States but I live a three-hour drive from the Russian border, so I am a bit more concerned about this than you probably are. I for one, along with virtually every non-Russian I know here, am happy with the recent NATO deployments.

fenrir, It is NATO who is moving her borders closer to the RF by trying to influence and win friends, and then stationing troops within those countries!

It is called 'encirclement'. Just look at the Post-Cold War map and see where NATO is now and where the Soviet / RF Army is not! :10310:

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 11:15
Epidemiological warning for RL - after the followng period of course even frontal lobotomy doesn't help:
œайдаƒн €ассказ‹вае‚ о †еля… нападения на €оссийское посолŒс‚во в šиеве - YouTube


Lets hope that the 'Vostock Battalion' does not visit Kyiv!
Kiev, Tolik... what, you propose to let them die suffering?

Carl
15-06-2014, 11:29
I said - it seems to me. ;) PJB is only member here who raised the questions. So either she has extremely unlucky situation especially in her environment, or... or? :)

Do you have similar experience? If so, how many of your Russian friends/colleagues were fired/arrested for "non-patriotism"?

I was actually raising the question in regards the the Russian/Western mixed families feeling threatened.. I would even go as far as to speculate that some are just "keeping quiet" in light of some of the attitudes expressed here by some of the moderators and the latest news of internet privacy, or lack there of. Some just might feel this is no longer a safe place to air such concerns.. But that of course is pure speculation.
As to the ramifications of any perceived "non-patriotism", I'm sure you are well aware of some of the possible manifestations that could present itself in certain cases.. I think you have lived in Russia long enough to understand that. There have been many cases of people loosing jobs for not towing one line or another. But to be fair, that's certainly not a situation only unique to Russia,..that can be found in many different places.

PJB
15-06-2014, 11:29
I am not sure that the majority of Americans understand biased media; they seem to swallow and believe what they are told! :10310:



Lets hope that the 'Vostock Battalion' does not visit Kyiv!



fenrir, It is NATO who is moving her borders closer to the RF by trying to influence and win friends, and then stationing troops within those countries!

It is called 'encirclement'. Just look at the Post-Cold War map and see where NATO is now and where the Soviet / RF Army is not! :10310:

After Peristoika NATO was a lame duck rapidly headed for extinction. Then VVP gave it CPR by rushing into Crimea and putting the fear of Russian invasion into countries on Russia's borders. Those countries are begging NATO to put troops and fully loaded bases on their territory which will probably be there for many years.

Carl
15-06-2014, 11:36
I am not sure that the majority of Americans understand biased media; they seem to swallow and believe what they are told!

Tolka, do you think it would still be a fair statement if one was to replace "Americans" in your post, with "Russians"...?

I for one think they are interchangeable in this particular regard.

PJB
15-06-2014, 11:45
I'm still waiting for Fantastika to give a link to those Russian bashing, American yellow propaganda stories (especially the ones she doesn't read).:rolleyes:

TolkoRaz
15-06-2014, 11:56
Tolka, do you think it would still be a fair statement if one was to replace "Americans" in your post, with "Russians"...?

I for one think they are interchangeable in this particular regard.

Yes, I do! Most people are fed the media line and eat it because they are bombarded with the 'truth'. They have no time or interest in searching elsewhere for different versions so they are influenced by what they are told!

It happens in the majority, if not all countries. Successful governance is all about controlling and influencing the population.

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 12:17
I was actually raising the question in regards the the Russian/Western mixed families feeling threatened.. I would even go as far as to speculate that some are just "keeping quiet" in light of some of the attitudes expressed here by some of the moderators and the latest news of internet privacy, or lack there of. Some just might feel this is no longer a safe place to air such concerns.. But that of course is pure speculation.
As to the ramifications of any perceived "non-patriotism", I'm sure you are well aware of some of the possible manifestations that could present itself in certain cases.. I think you have lived in Russia long enough to understand that. There have been many cases of people loosing jobs for not towing one line or another. But to be fair, that's certainly not a situation only unique to Russia,..that can be found in many different places.
So you have russian wife and somebody jeopardised you/your wife? Who, when, where? Did you write a claim to police?

And yes, me and other moderators sell user data to Russian FSB, Belorussian KGB, German BND, British SIS, American NSA and Israeli Mossad. 50 rub per kilo. Please note we don't sell user data to CIA and FBI for ideological reasons.

Could? Might? Possible? Well, it's your choice to continue to afraid and "be concerned". People generally like it. Subconsciounessly. ;)

quincy
15-06-2014, 12:39
I'm still waiting for Fantastika to give a link to those Russian bashing, American yellow propaganda stories (especially the ones she doesn't read).:rolleyes:

If you are already convinced that media channels cannot possibly deliver propaganda then it sounds as though even a million links will not help!

Carl
15-06-2014, 12:56
So you have russian wife and somebody jeopardised you/your wife? Who, when, where? Did you write a claim to police?

And yes, me and other moderators sell user data to Russian FSB, Belorussian KGB, German BND, British SIS, American NSA and Israeli Mossad. 50 rub per kilo. Please note we don't sell user data to CIA and FBI for ideological reasons.

Could? Might? Possible? Well, it's your choice to continue to afraid and "be concerned". People generally like it. Subconsciounessly. ;)

Not speaking of myself..hence the "speculating" part.
И да, некоторые любят страдать.

Russian Lad
15-06-2014, 17:32
I am not sure that the majority of Americans understand biased media; they seem to swallow and believe what they are told!

I think the majority of Russians recently have clearly beaten the majority of Americans by the sheer volume of lies and BS they can swallow from the mainstream media.
I have talked to many Russians, sadly, in many cases they don't want to discuss the truth because they think they are somehow superior to the Ukrainians, - financially, spiritually, you name it. Such attitudes lead to disasters and tragedies. Well, I will want to look at their stupid faces in a year. My pleasure will be almost primordial. I hope the Iranians and the Saudis deliver a lot of quality oil in the near future. This madness needs to be stopped.

MickeyTong
15-06-2014, 17:44
Yes, I do! Most people are fed the media line and eat it because they are bombarded with the 'truth'. They have no time or interest in searching elsewhere for different versions so they are influenced by what they are told!

It happens in the majority, if not all countries. Successful governance is all about controlling and influencing the population.

All journalism is advocacy journalism.....

http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/alerts-2013/738-advocacy-journalism.html

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 18:19
in many cases they don't want to discussThe TruthЪ

Savik and maidowns have prepared badly for delivering The TruthЪ. Watch mimics.

Шƒс‚е€ LIVE 13-06-2014 - YouTube


they think they are somehow superior to the Ukrainians, - financially, spiritually
They don't think, it's just true. Unfortunately - for Ukrainians.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 18:29
I'm still waiting for Fantastika to give a link to those Russian bashing, American yellow propaganda stories (especially the ones she doesn't read).:rolleyes:

PJ, I went to Google "news" this morning, there's the top story about Ukraine, it is from Bloomberg. (I can dissect Billionaire former NY Mayor Bloatberg's propaganda in a few minutes). The 2nd is from Hindustan Times (just a rehash of AP and other Western sources), and the 3rd one is from Moscow Times.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/germany-france-us-react-to-spiraling-ukraine-conflict/501927.html

What's missing from this article?

Paragraph 1: German Chancellor Angela Merkel's opinion.
Paragraph 2: The German government's opinion.
Paragraph 3: German government spokesman Georg Streiter's Point of View (opinion).
Paragraph 4: German government spokesman Georg Streiter's POV.
Paragraph 5: French government POV.
Paragraph 6: Merkel's POV.
Paragraph 7: The U.S. State Department's POV
Paragraph 8: U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry's POV.
Paragraph 9: Kerry's POV
Paragraph 10: "The U.S." POV.
Paragraph 11: US State Department POV.
Paragraph 12: Kerry talked with Ukraine's prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk.
Paragraph 13: US "official" giving information to the media about what Kerry said is described as an "anonymous" official
Paragraph 14: "The U.S." POV
Paragraph 15: US State Department spokesperson (I like "spokeswoman" better. it's more descriptive :) ) Jen Psaki's POV.

(End of "news" story.)

What's (purposely) omitted?

1. Putin's POV
2. Russian government POV
3. The SE Ukraine "rebels" POV.

You can see this is a typical Moscow Slimes "hit piece". An editorial attack on Russia, justification and rationalization for full support of Kiev. There is common agreement among all the quoted parties that Russia is wrong, but there is not even an attempt made to explain what Russia's rationale is, or what the inhabitants of the contested region want.

Counter-arguments, any opposing opinions, factual data from the populace, are completely censored. It seems the Slimes feels that NATO, the US and Western Europe should have sole and exclusive discretion in deciding the fate of SE Ukraine. The people living there are superfluous and not asked what they want.

And there is a deeper level underlying this story which lays a foundation of bias, I don't have time to dissect it right now.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 19:00
NATO's main conventional strength is centered in Western Europe and the US mainland. If Russia moves forces too close to NATO members' borders, it creates a situation where Moscow can launch a lightning attack and occupy several NATO member states before any significant NATO ground forces can leave their bases in the West.


And why would Russia do this? Launch a lightning attack on a foreign country?

Where do you get such an idea?

Your scenario is based on fear. Not a healthy attitude. Maybe you and your government should try communication, maybe that would bring understanding. Ya think?

Oh, no, your country is comfortable in its paranoia, and learns about the evil Russians every day on CNN, the BBC, and the Euronews, from NATO and Hillary Clinton ("Putin is Hitler").

And turn it around - If (no "if" about it, it's a done deal) - when NATO moves weapons, tanks, troops, missiles, warships close to the Russian border, it creates a situation where NATO can launch a lightning attack and occupy several oblasts in Russia, before any significant Russian ground troops can be re-deployed.


To prevent or at least discourage such an attack, NATO needs to move some of its forces forward. Remember, NATO is just moving forces within ITS own territory too. That game play both ways.

To prevent or at least discourage such a NATO attack, Russia needs to move some of its forces forward. Remember, Russia is just moving forces within ITS own territory too. That game play(s) both ways.[/QUOTE]

So it's okay for the US to station troops 4000 miles outside its borders, but not okay for Russia to post troops within (close to) its own border. I see (said the blind man).

And please don't tell me that NATO ("its own territory") is a joint operation - it's not - it's 90% US forces, weapons, missiles, warships, funding. Well, you already admitted that in your last sentence.


You are nice and safe back in the States but I live a three-hour drive from the Russian border, so I am a bit more concerned about this than you probably are. 3 hour-drive, on Russian roads? Must be 10 miles away (sorry, joke!). I think I am about 30 minutes drive from some cylindrical concrete holes in the local farmland that house ICBM's, here in the Midwest US, that would be primary target if NATO starts a war with Russia. Nice and safe, huh?


I for one, along with virtually every non-Russian I know here, am happy with the recent NATO deployments.

So there is ethnic division? Ethnic Russians against the majority locals? Thanks, media, for creating and exacerbating tension. Are the ethnic Russians not allowed to vote, do they have their human rights denied, as in the Baltic countries?

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 19:21
Where do you get such an idea?
He and eSStonians are afraid of so called Crimean scenario.:cool:
Non-citizen population of ESStonia now is around 15% (mostly Russian). ;) Normal estonians keep calm. But they're in minority.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 19:23
I am not sure that the majority of Americans understand biased media; they seem to swallow and believe what they are told! :10310:


I don't know... if you read the "comments" after the typical story, I would say 40%-60% are attacking the story and punching holes in it, and anti-US government.

Yet there are too many "sheeple" manipulated by the media...

Russian Lad
15-06-2014, 19:44
Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
they think they are somehow superior to the Ukrainians, - financially, spiritually

They don't think, it's just true.

Thank you for illustrating my words with your own input.:) It will be a lot of fun to discuss the same with you in a year. What made you a chauvinist, Andy? Is it the food? The weather? A lot of money? Too many beautiful women? What is it?
You probably don't realize this, but this attitude has been the main reason most Ukrainians turned away from Russia and began looking westwards. I cannot blame them for this. You can go on about evil West's conspiracies as much as you like, but no conspiracy would win if we, the Russians, have not been behaving like capital arseholes towards our own brothers in Ukraine.


Watch mimics.

I don't have time to watch 2.30+ hr. of that. Is there a synopsis? Shuster and many of his guests are speaking Russian in this program, why are they not caught and tortured by the banderovtsi and the nazi? Are the Russian news lying to us???:)

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 19:58
Thank you for illustrating my words with your own input.:) It will be a lot of fun to discuss the same with you in a year. What made you a chauvinist, Andy? Is it the food? The weather? A lot of money? Too many beautiful women? What is it?
All together. And not a chauvinist, but realist. :cool: http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140615182450.shtml

Russian Lad
15-06-2014, 20:12
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140615182450.shtml

To me it sounds like desperate propaganda, they have lost eleven towns in one week, including Mariupol. On the other hand, I don't know how many thousands of armed men cross the border every day, so everything is possible.

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 20:29
To me it sounds like desperate propaganda, they have lost eleven towns in one week, including Mariupol
...says even more desperate ukropropaganda ;)

TolkoRaz
15-06-2014, 20:30
To me it sounds like desperate propaganda, they have lost eleven towns in one week, including Mariupol. On the other hand, I don't know how many thousands of armed men cross the border every day, so everything is possible.

That is not all you don't know! ;)

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 20:31
He and eSStonians are afraid of so called Crimean scenario.:cool:
Non-citizen population of ESStonia now is around 15% (mostly Russian). ;) Normal estonians keep calm. But they're in minority.

"ESStonia" ? I don't get the slang...

Schutzstauffel?

FatAndy
15-06-2014, 20:35
SS veterans have started to make parades there shortly after 1991. In Latvia and Litva too, but less actively.

Russian Lad
15-06-2014, 20:39
That is not all you don't know!

Err, sure, my knowledge in many areas is very limited, I have never pretended otherwise.

fenrir
15-06-2014, 21:00
Fantastika, it's hard to take anything you said above seriously because it is all so inaccurate. Of course, being on the other side of the planet while I am living here gives us different perspectives on the situation.

First off, we have several hundred American troops plus a detachment of British SAS on the ground here. No tanks, no missiles, no warships.

Second, the majority of the aircraft at our airbase and Lithuania's (both responsible for patrolling the region) are other NATO member's fighters.

Third, the combined armies of the three Baltic States, plus the recent NATO deployments, are incapable of a lightning attack because there are virtually no armored components. They are defensive armies, thus your counterargument is totally groundless. Any hysterical fears on Moscow's part of an attack are pure paranoia.

Four, the roads on our side of the border are in excellent shape, and as I wouldn't expect a Russian invasion force to respect the speed limit, it could theoretically reach the capital in 3 hours. I say theoretically because, as you can imagine, blocking forces are already positioned against such a move. How long they would hold up is anyone's guess.

Five, regarding local paranoia, the Crimean takeover woke everyone up. The other two Baltic states' defense spending was way below NATO standard and they were considering cutting defense spending here because the chance for conflict with Russia was considered very low. Not any more. Besides the Crimea, Russian has been in the habit of violating the airspace of Estonia and Finland with military planes rather frequently. Then agents were caught both here and in Latvia literally polling local Russians on their feelings about trying to force a local referendum on autonomy. I am happy to report that the results were so disappointing to Moscow that the local security forces didn't even bother to arrest the agents.

Then there were 3 local rallies organized by known local Russian troublemakers to drum up local Russian support for Russian actions in the Crimea. I went to the first two to see the turnout. They had at most 100 sympathizers at the first (it was hard to separate the curious from the actual sympathizers - I hope I wasn't counted as one of the participants!). The second rally netted about 2-3 dozen. I didn't bother checking out the 3rd, but my wife did and she said there were no more than 10. They were actually outnumbered by the number of reporters there.

Finally, about human rights denied, you don't know what you are talking about.

fenrir
15-06-2014, 21:07
SS veterans have started to make parades there shortly after 1991. In Latvia and Litva too, but less actively.

On private property, where they have a legal right to do so in democratic countries.


He and eSStonians are afraid of so called Crimean scenario.:cool:
Non-citizen population of ESStonia now is around 15% (mostly Russian). ;) Normal estonians keep calm. But they're in minority.

The grey passport population is under 8% now. Your information is outdated.

TolkoRaz
15-06-2014, 22:33
Fantastika, it's hard to take anything you said above seriously because it is all so inaccurate. Of course, being on the other side of the planet while I am living here gives us different perspectives on the situation.

First off, we have several hundred American troops plus a detachment of British SAS on the ground here. No tanks, no missiles, no warships.

Second, the majority of the aircraft at our airbase and Lithuania's (both responsible for patrolling the region) are other NATO member's fighters.

Third, the combined armies of the three Baltic States, plus the recent NATO deployments, are incapable of a lightning attack because there are virtually no armored components. They are defensive armies, thus your counterargument is totally groundless. Any hysterical fears on Moscow's part of an attack are pure paranoia.

Four, the roads on our side of the border are in excellent shape, and as I wouldn't expect a Russian invasion force to respect the speed limit, it could theoretically reach the capital in 3 hours. I say theoretically because, as you can imagine, blocking forces are already positioned against such a move. How long they would hold up is anyone's guess.

Five, regarding local paranoia, the Crimean takeover woke everyone up. The other two Baltic states' defense spending was way below NATO standard and they were considering cutting defense spending here because the chance for conflict with Russia was considered very low. Not any more. Besides the Crimea, Russian has been in the habit of violating the airspace of Estonia and Finland with military planes rather frequently. Then agents were caught both here and in Latvia literally polling local Russians on their feelings about trying to force a local referendum on autonomy. I am happy to report that the results were so disappointing to Moscow that the local security forces didn't even bother to arrest the agents.

Then there were 3 local rallies organized by known local Russian troublemakers to drum up local Russian support for Russian actions in the Crimea. I went to the first two to see the turnout. They had at most 100 sympathizers at the first (it was hard to separate the curious from the actual sympathizers - I hope I wasn't counted as one of the participants!). The second rally netted about 2-3 dozen. I didn't bother checking out the 3rd, but my wife did and she said there were no more than 10. They were actually outnumbered by the number of reporters there.

Finally, about human rights denied, you don't know what you are talking about.

fenrir, What is your problem or concern? :confused:

There is no RF intent to invade any of The Baltics or to undermine their governments!

NATO has increased their personnel and equipment as part of a sabre rattling exercise to demonstrate that they are actually doing something rather than just talking. Despite this, what they have done is rather pointless, serves as no deterrent and probably only increases NATO's / US of A's intelligence collection capability. :10310:

Russian Lad
15-06-2014, 23:30
There is no RF intent to invade any of The Baltics or to undermine their governments!

Ukraine thought so too, didn't it? And look what happened. Ай-яй-яй, как некрасиво.

TolkoRaz
16-06-2014, 00:06
Ukraine thought so too, didn't it? And look what happened. Ай-яй-яй, как некрасиво.

The UKR is a totally different situation; The Klowns antagonised the RF, VVP had to act. Other than to ignore the threats to the Russian speakers & turn a blind eye to the violence witnessed in Kyiv and further afield, he had no choice!

Do not blame VVP, blame the Evil Empire and her cohorts for meddling and playing GeoPolitcal games!

Russian Lad
16-06-2014, 00:14
The UKR is a totally different situation; The Klowns antagonised the RF, VVP had to act. Other than to ignore the threats to the Russian speakers & turn a blind eye to the violence witnessed in Kyiv and further afield, he had no choice!

I know you are not stupid, so it means you are being hypocritical. It is pathetic and I think you are aware of that because you are not stupid.
I don't remember the Ukrs violating our borders in any way. As to the language, even if it was threatened or undermined (please give us examples, except for the law that lasted only for a week and was never implemented), there are international institutions like PACE and the UN to fight for this in a civilized way.
Besides, you are ommitting the fact that Russia was actively involved in Maidan on the side of Yanukovich in various forms and capacities, both the West and Russia were active players on that field, probably for many years.
Fenrir has all the grounds imaginable to be worried. I would be worried too in his place.

TolkoRaz
16-06-2014, 00:24
I know you are not stupid, so it means you are being hypocritical. It is pathetic and I think you are aware of that because you are not stupid.
I don't remember the Ukrs violating our borders in any way. As to the language, even if it was threatened or undermined (please give us examples, except for the law that lasted only for a week and was never implemented), there are international institutions like PACE and the UN to fight for this in a civilized way.
Besides, you are ommitting the fact that Russia was actively involved in Maidan on the side of Yanukovich in various forms and capacities, both the West and Russia were active players on that field, probably for many years.
Fenrir has all the grounds imaginable to be worried. I would be worried too in his place.

That is correct RusskiLad, I am pathetic! :10310:

Russian Lad
16-06-2014, 00:28
That is correct RusskiLad, I am pathetic!

You personally maybe are a great guy, but the idea above is pathetic.:) Since you are aware of it, you remain to be a great guy.:):mml::tongue::watching:

Fantastika
16-06-2014, 01:14
I know you are not stupid, so it means you are being hypocritical. It is pathetic and I think you are aware of that because you are not stupid.
I don't remember the Ukrs violating our borders in any way. As to the language, even if it was threatened or undermined (please give us examples, except for the law that lasted only for a week and was never implemented), there are international institutions like PACE and the UN to fight for this in a civilized way.
Besides, you are ommitting the fact that Russia was actively involved in Maidan on the side of Yanukovich in various forms and capacities, both the West and Russia were active players on that field, probably for many years.
Fenrir has all the grounds imaginable to be worried. I would be worried too in his place.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ_LHyx2odc

PJB
16-06-2014, 10:30
PJ, I went to Google "news" this morning, there's the top story about Ukraine, it is from Bloomberg. (I can dissect Billionaire former NY Mayor Bloatberg's propaganda in a few minutes). The 2nd is from Hindustan Times (just a rehash of AP and other Western sources), and the 3rd one is from Moscow Times.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/germany-france-us-react-to-spiraling-ukraine-conflict/501927.html

What's missing from this article?

Paragraph 1: German Chancellor Angela Merkel's opinion.
Paragraph 2: The German government's opinion.
Paragraph 3: German government spokesman Georg Streiter's Point of View (opinion).
Paragraph 4: German government spokesman Georg Streiter's POV.
Paragraph 5: French government POV.
Paragraph 6: Merkel's POV.
Paragraph 7: The U.S. State Department's POV
Paragraph 8: U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry's POV.
Paragraph 9: Kerry's POV
Paragraph 10: "The U.S." POV.
Paragraph 11: US State Department POV.
Paragraph 12: Kerry talked with Ukraine's prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk.
Paragraph 13: US "official" giving information to the media about what Kerry said is described as an "anonymous" official
Paragraph 14: "The U.S." POV
Paragraph 15: US State Department spokesperson (I like "spokeswoman" better. it's more descriptive :) ) Jen Psaki's POV.

(End of "news" story.)

What's (purposely) omitted?

1. Putin's POV
2. Russian government POV
3. The SE Ukraine "rebels" POV.

You can see this is a typical Moscow Slimes "hit piece". An editorial attack on Russia, justification and rationalization for full support of Kiev. There is common agreement among all the quoted parties that Russia is wrong, but there is not even an attempt made to explain what Russia's rationale is, or what the inhabitants of the contested region want.

Counter-arguments, any opposing opinions, factual data from the populace, are completely censored. It seems the Slimes feels that NATO, the US and Western Europe should have sole and exclusive discretion in deciding the fate of SE Ukraine. The people living there are superfluous and not asked what they want.

And there is a deeper level underlying this story which lays a foundation of bias, I don't have time to dissect it right now.

A straightforward report of what was said (in quotes) is not propaganda or yellow journalism. There are no POVs in this article because it is not a story about POVs. It's a report of 3 countries phone calls and statements.

FatAndy
16-06-2014, 11:56
Back to topic:
Since 10:00 today evil Gazprom has switched on prepayment regime for Naftogaz.

A "synopsis" for RL on Shuster-Live show:
ШУСТЕР LIVE Марк Франкетти против Студии - YouTube

quincy
16-06-2014, 14:12
London FT headlines
http://www.ft.com/home/uk


Kiev accuses Russia of cutting gas supplies
Claim comes after Gazprom demands advance payments from Ukraine
Separatists shoot down military aircraft
US claims Russia supplied tanks to Ukraine separatists
Kiev accuses Russia over tanks in east


The Kosovo movement was never labelled "separatist"
Russian and East Ukrainian points of view completely absent

Fantastika
16-06-2014, 16:35
A straightforward report of what was said (in quotes) is not propaganda or yellow journalism. There are no POVs in this article because it is not a story about POVs. It's a report of 3 countries phone calls and statements.

Slippery, PJ. "Point of View" means the opinion of the person quoted. When Angela Merkel is quoted about what she thinks of a situation, that is her opinion, or her point of view - "the position from which something or someone is observed."

This article is labeled a "report" - "an account given of a particular matter" and is considered "news" by the "news"paper which publishes it. The Moscow Times presents only one side of this "particular matter", only the "accounts" of one side. The other side's claims are missing or censored.

This article claims to be a report covering a contentious issue. The story presents one side of the issue but does not present the other side - therefore it is biased.

An analogy would be a divorce - if the man was allowed to speak and present his case, but the partner woman was forced to remain silent, the public would hear only one side of the contended issue. Or any legal case in which the Prosecution was allowed to present evidence, but the Defense was not, or vice-versa.

Fantastika
16-06-2014, 17:31
London FT headlines
http://www.ft.com/home/uk

Russian and East Ukrainian points of view completely absent

The headline has been modified from "Kiev accuses Russia..." to "Ukraine accuses Russia..."

The headline implies that Russia is the bad guy, because Russia cut off the gas. Also it implies that the entirety of "Ukraine" (not just "Kiev") is united in their accusation. Also, it presents this as geopolitical conflict between two countries, when it is a simple problem of deadbeat customer refusing to pay his utility bill.

Lie - Gazprom cut off the gas, not Russia. The same way that a utility will cut off your electricity if you don't pay the bill.

Lie - All Ukrainians are not united in Kiev's war against ethnic Russians.

Lie - Ukraine did not the bill, Naftogaz did not pay the bill.

The story has 17 paragraphs supporting the Kiev position, and 3 paragraphs for the Russian side. Officials are quoted for the Kiev position, the Russian position is interpreted by the article writer.

In the middle of the "news" story, there are two paragraphs about a Ukrainian airplane being shot down, and accusations about Russian tanks - data irrelevant to a gas price dispute, but the paragraphs are inserted in order to raise sympathy for the Ukrainian position.

Arseniy the Arsonist complains that Kiev will not "subsidize" Gazprom, however the reverse is true - Gazprom was subsidizing Kiev's gas. Also it is not explained that the price of $268 was a subsidy, or that the world price is $380. The US price seasonally varies between $300-$500.

The FT then prints another outrageous Arseniy remark "Ukrainians will not pull $5bn out of their pockets a year so that Russia can use this money to buy arms, tanks and planes and bomb Ukrainian territory.”

There is no Russian government or any other statement presented in reply to the ridiculous accusation that Russia is using planes to bomb Ukrainian territory. Arseniy's statements are printed, without qualification or opposition, in order to incite reader dislike for Russia.

Russian Lad
16-06-2014, 17:32
A "synopsis" for RL on Shuster-Live show:

First of all, notice that the mainstream Ukrainian media give floor to the opposite view, it is not so here in Russia at all. Secondly, I have noticed since the beginning of this crisis that FSB has a little team of Russian-speaking Italian and German journalists and propagandists who support everything and toe the party line in general - I think these teams were formed thanks to Berluskoni and Schroeder and their corruption proclivities, Andy, it is a bit naive on your part thinking I might take their words at face value. Yes, there are inexperienced консервы in the field, sure - but they would not put up a day of successful fighting if they weren't attended to - financially, technically, tactically, etc. (for instance, Girkin-Strelkov and Boroday and some others are not hiding they are from Moscow, in fact, they have openly confirmed it).
The Ukrainian in green camouflage is the voice of real Ukraine I think. I would listen to him.
Right now their main problem is ideology - the nazi trick didn't work, more than that, it was efficiently turned against them, so right now it is a lost case unless they are willing to come up with something even more sinister and deadly for the full-scale ground invasion. One-two months, half a year - and the Russians in Russia, even the dumb ones, will begin asking questions... It is inevitable. And then the real fun begins.

FatAndy
16-06-2014, 17:58
I have noticed since the beginning of this crisis that FSB has a little team of Russian-speaking Italian and German journalists and propagandists who support everything and toe the party line in general - I think these teams were formed thanks to Berluskoni and Schroeder and their corruption proclivities
Мелко, Хоботов ;)
Then add corrupted Sarcosi, Ollande and Cameron - Mark Franchetti is half Italian, half French and works for British Sunday Times. ;)


it is a bit naive on your part thinking I might take their words at face value
So you're at the step 3 of the disease. Pity... I was thinking, your immune system is a bit stronger :)

Russian Lad
16-06-2014, 18:15
and works for British Sunday Times.

Please tell me his office is not in Moscow - I hope against all hope it is so... I don't actually completely disagree with what he is saying - yes, there are ordinary people involved in it in the East - some were fooled by this nazi propaganda, others joined for money, for some it may be both, the other, sinister part of the equasion still stands and he is not even trying to refute it - that Russia is directly involved in the conflict. So, what has he told us we don't already know?
By the way, do you reckon Ponomarev is still alive? Looks like my forecast as to his future has seen a green light... The last we heard he was arrested, some Ukr sources now claim he has been executed. Surely not a nice way to treat a people's mayor and hero fighting the bloody fascists in Kiev?:)

FatAndy
16-06-2014, 19:02
By the way, do you reckon Ponomarev is still alive? Looks like my forecast as to his future has seen a green light...
"Who are all these people?" (C):bong:

Russian Lad
16-06-2014, 21:15
Well, the Ukr media have this story, maybe it is not true, dunno, for sure he was arrested and I haven't heard about him ever since. The hydra has begun devouring its children, like I told you it would...

http://joinfo.ua/politic/941975_Vyacheslav-Ponomarev-ubit-narodnogo-mera.html

FatAndy
16-06-2014, 21:26
Uainfo.org - all The TruthЪ of blogosphere??!!
Omfg, bro... :rofl:

Then for you it's better to read another WC-level source, at least they have much funnier headers: http://eizvestia.com

Russian Lad
16-06-2014, 21:35
Uainfo.org - all The TruthЪ of blogosphere??!!
Omfg, bro...

All I am saying at this point is there are such accounts, I don't claim it is true. His arrest is a confirmed fact though - "because humanitarian aid wasn't delivered properly" - right... Did you have the same "it is not true!" attitude when you first heard about his arrest?:)

’ Славянске нов‹й самоп€овозглаˆенн‹й ме€ - YouTube

PJB
16-06-2014, 23:15
Well, the Ukr media have this story, maybe it is not true, dunno, for sure he was arrested and I haven't heard about him ever since. The hydra has begun devouring its children, like I told you it would...

http://joinfo.ua/politic/941975_Vyacheslav-Ponomarev-ubit-narodnogo-mera.html

He appears to have disappeared and reports of him being arrested may be true, or maybe he's dead. But definitely not coming back.
probably because it has been decided that it's time to get rid of the amateurs and bring in the professionals.

Russian Lad
16-06-2014, 23:25
http://tvrain.ru/articles/lobkov_v_kontse_kontsov_ih_vseh_uberut_no_oni_v_eto_ne_verjat_chto_zhdet_vozhdej_donetska_i_luganska-370025/

quincy
17-06-2014, 00:13
There is no Russian government or any other statement presented in reply to the ridiculous accusation that Russia is using planes to bomb Ukrainian territory. Arseniy's statements are printed, without qualification or opposition, in order to incite reader dislike for Russia.

It has all the features of a "free" press!

Russian Lad
17-06-2014, 04:11
It has all the features of a "free" press!

Why are you shouting?

Fantastika
17-06-2014, 05:36
Why are you shouting?

ALL CAPITAL LETTERS is "shouting".

An exclamation point indicates sarcasm, or irony.

Russian Lad
17-06-2014, 06:54
An exclamation point indicates sarcasm, or irony.

Oh, does it! Since when!!!? I have always thought an "exclamation point" means directly what it indicates - exclamation, i.e. shouting.

Fantastika
17-06-2014, 07:24
Oh, does it! Since when!!!?


A perfect example! :)


I have always thought an "exclamation point" means directly what it indicates - exclamation, i.e. shouting.

In dialog, yes:

Joe walked to the edge of the forest, looking for Sandy.
"Sandy!" he yelled.
Where was that girl?
"Joe!" he heard a distant voice from far way in the trees.

And:

For lunch, Russian Lad had 3 hamburgers, 2 hot dogs, several helpings of French fries, a jumbo-size strawberry milkshake and 2 large bottles of Pepsi.
Waitress says, "RL, you're sure not very hungry today!"

Well, that's a stretch, the irony in Quincy's statement is in the quotes around "free". ...a "free" press! He uses the exclamation point to call attention to, to add emphasis to, his irony.

quincy
17-06-2014, 09:53
ALL CAPITAL LETTERS is "shouting".

An exclamation point indicates sarcasm, or irony.

The poor man is desperate to say something!

He keeps posting boring nonsense in different threads over and over because he can't argue against simple facts that are obvious to everyone except the most dumb or brainwashed

He has nothing but irritant value

Russian Lad
17-06-2014, 10:07
The poor man is desperate to say something!

Why are you shouting again? Your "simple facts" are not passing a reality check. Consult your suvervisors because up till now you are not worth your keep, it is pathetic, it is not worth a copeck.

FatAndy
17-06-2014, 12:04
Artillery attack of Ukrobandits onto Kramatorsk yesterday. 11 rounds, 10 civillians killed, 11 injured.

Russian Lad
17-06-2014, 19:43
10 civillians killed

The central Russian media are even less reliable than the Ukr news, so it is true as long as you counted the bodies personally. You know what irritates me the most on the Russian central channels, besides their surreal, totally Orwellian lies? They have developed a habit of constantly waving and gesticulating with their hands for emphasis, greedily grabbing air in front of them in claws-like, rapid moves like some hideous gargoyles that have come to life - as if hoping their lies will be shoved down the throats of their citizens more effectively this way. I watch it for like 15 minutes per day to check how low they have fallen. Every new day there is a new low, it seems.

FatAndy
17-06-2014, 20:37
:rules: Too many letters, RL. Stop watching TV, it won't cure you, but give you a remedy... or maybe not.

Russian Lad
17-06-2014, 20:41
Too many letters, RL.

Why? It is only four lines, just a bit longer than an sms. Or you perceive life only through slogans now?
Ok, here you go:
Крым наш!
Деды воевали!
Фашизм не пройдет!
Своих не бросаем!
Чужого не надо, своего не отдадим!
[-]Lies are Truth!
War is Peace!
Slavery is Freedom![/-]

TolkoRaz
17-06-2014, 22:27
RusskiLad, I respectfully suggest you get yourself down to the East of the Ukraine and then you can speak with authority rather than being brainwashed! ;)

Russian Lad
17-06-2014, 23:42
RusskiLad, I respectfully suggest you get yourself down to the East of the Ukraine and then you can speak with authority rather than being brainwashed!

It is enough that I am in Russia, so I can analize what role Russia plays in this. I don't think our views actually differ a lot at this point, you are not stupid and understand it all. You just seem to be making money off it, that's all - кому война, а кому мать родна...
Anyway, since you pretend you have more info, any details how Ponomarev was executed and who is next?

TolkoRaz
17-06-2014, 23:45
It is enough that I am in Russia, so I can analize what role Russia plays in this. I don't think our views actually differ a lot at this point, you are not stupid and understand it all. You just seem to be making money off it, that's all - кому война, а кому мать родна...

Get out of your armchair and witness at first hand what is occurring on the ground. You keep banging on about propaganda etc, can I suggest that you dust off your boots, locate your passport, book a train or flight and travel Westwards to get to know the 'ground truth'! ;)

Russian Lad
17-06-2014, 23:48
can I suggest that you dust off your boots, locate your passport, book a train or flight and travel Westwards to get to know the 'ground truth'!

Well, tell us more about the "ground truth" here. Why would I bother doing this free of charge? I would think twice even if offered a lot of money. We have many witness accounts as it is though. What is happening on the ground, however, is a result only, I am more interested in the causes of it, the forces and the motives behind it.
P. S. I remember reading how the nazi complained about the atrocities of the Soviets back in 1942, on the nazi-occupied and nazi-terrorised territories... Funny stuff.

TolkoRaz
17-06-2014, 23:50
Well, tell us more about the "ground truth" here. Why would I bother doing this free of charge? I would think twice even if offered a lot of money. We have many witness accounts as it is though. What is happening on the ground, however, is a result only, I am more interested in the causes of it.

What I write is only propaganda according to you! ;)

Russian Lad
18-06-2014, 09:58
What I write is only propaganda according to you!

Half of it, the other half - you don't believe in it yourself, it seems, but have to regurgitate it to keep your conscience and your motives relatively clean. Other than that, I am sure there are many anti-Kiev people in the Eastern Ukraine, but they are instigated, armed and assisted by the external force - Boroday, Strelkov and many others have openly admitted they are Russians from Moscow. And many reports seem to indicate that anti-Kiev population is not an overwhealming majority there.
Anyway, what is the ideology now that the nazi trick didn't work?

Interesting revelations. Hopefully, it will be over soon. Complete zugzwang for the Kremlin in any case.


Zugzwang (German for "compulsion to move", pronounced [ˈtsuːktsvaŋ]) is a situation found in chess and other games, where one player is put at a disadvantage because he must make a move when they would prefer to pass and not to move. The fact that the player is compelled to move means that their position will become significantly weaker. A player is said to be "in zugzwang" when any possible move will worsen their position.

Экс‚€енное заявление командƒŽ‰его опол‡ением ”НР ˜го€я С‚€елкова - YouTube

quincy
18-06-2014, 15:23
Artillery attack of Ukrobandits onto Kramatorsk yesterday. 11 rounds, 10 civillians killed, 11 injured.

There is new talk of a ceasefire today. Andy - do you think Poroshenko's masters in EU/US want it this time, or is it another public relations game?

TolkoRaz
18-06-2014, 15:37
What concessions is Poroshenko giving to the oppressed?

quincy
18-06-2014, 15:47
What concessions is Poroshenko giving to the oppressed?

His concession will be to keep the blockade against population centres in the east and maintain attacks - for this probably will be praised as a 'peacemaker' by every single media outlet!

TolkoRaz
18-06-2014, 15:56
This ceasefire will not work! He is hoping to provide a clear passage for fighters to return to Russia!

Well, guess what, Russia is a whole lot safer without the fighters on Russian soil! ;) So, the RF will do their utmost to keep them in the Eastern UKR and will continue to finance them!

FatAndy
18-06-2014, 16:01
There is new talk of a ceasefire today. Andy - do you think Poroshenko's masters in EU/US want it this time, or is it another public relations game?

Neither EU nor US need Ukraine itself today. They need an instrument to make a headache for Russia. Plus just an additional market. But not by means massacre did by Ukrobandits, it's bad for their PR.

finnandcork
18-06-2014, 23:35
Clean water, dishwashing machine, modern clothes wash and dry machine, a nice car to drive, a 2 car garage to park that nice car, good roads all over the country to drive on, good job, good income, 3 bedroom 2 bath house with heat and air conditioning that you can turn on/off and up/down as you like, home with clean hot water that never gets turned off by the city, modern healthcare, modern dental care, and the freedom to stand in any public place with an "Obama is a @#&* " placard and not be arrested.;)

You been to the real Amurka lately? Outside of urban havens like NYC, SF, Chicago(dubious), America is a shithole, no work, real unemployment is higher than numbers they give.No health care. Constant warfare and daily violence.....yes, a living nightmare.

quincy
19-06-2014, 12:51
Neither EU nor US need Ukraine itself today. They need an instrument to make a headache for Russia. Plus just an additional market. But not by means massacre did by Ukrobandits, it's bad for their PR.

The reporting on violence by the Ukr regime has been cut down. Daily attacks continue according to locals and siege against towns is still in force - but we don't read about them !

So the "free" media can control the reporting to protect the Ukr regime from bad PR

Alan65
19-06-2014, 13:05
The reporting on violence by the Ukr regime has been cut down. Daily attacks continue according to locals and siege against towns is still in force - but we don't read about them !

So the "free" media can control the reporting to protect the Ukr regime from bad PR

Probably because the world cup is on and people are more interested in it.

quincy
19-06-2014, 13:09
Probably because the world cup is on and people are more interested in it.

plays a part!

Alan65
19-06-2014, 13:15
plays a part!

If I were a reporter I know I would much rather be reporting from Copacabana than Yalta.

FatAndy
19-06-2014, 13:22
If I were a reporter I know I would much rather be reporting from Copacabana than Yalta.
Just FYI - Yalta is RF territory, and we're about Ukrobandits here.

Fantastika
19-06-2014, 14:54
His concession will be to keep the blockade against population centres in the east and maintain attacks - for this probably will be praised as a 'peacemaker' by every single media outlet!

You nailed it! Today's headline from the Washington Post:

"Rebels reject peace proposal from Ukraine"

Fantastika
19-06-2014, 14:55
Probably because the world cup is on and people are more interested in it.

And this weekend starts Wimbledon.

Fantastika
19-06-2014, 15:50
Clean water,
Correct.

dishwashing machine,
No dishwashing machine.

modern clothes
I get my clothes at yard sales, auctions, Good Will and the Salvation Army.

wash and dry machine,
I use the laundromat. When I lived in Russia, I used the bathtub, until I graduated to the Malutka I found in Iz-Ruk-v-ruki.

a nice car to drive,
1993 Mazda, the A/C does not work. Only goes 60 MPH.

a 2 car garage to park that nice car,
No garage.

good roads all over the country to drive on,
The best roads in the state here, yes, but we have influential government representative. :)

good job,
I don't work for anyone else.

good income,
And I work 80 hours a week for it.

3 bedroom 2 bath house with heat and air conditioning
that you can turn on/off and up/down as you like,
No central A/C here.

home with clean hot water that never gets turned off by the city,
The city turns it off if you don't pay the bill within 36 days.

modern healthcare,
I am paying $400/month premiums for "healthcare" which I never use, but if I get off the government "plan" and then get back on it later, it will be $800/month (penalty for skipping). "Modern" Obamacare will take the world's best healthcare system down to the level of the old Soviet Union's. Or were you referring to the fact, that under the "modern" American healthcare system, if you choose not to have health insurance, you are forced to pay a fine?

modern dental care,
I got $5000 (USA cost) worth of dental work for $400 in Russia. Same quality.

and the freedom to stand in any public place with an "Obama is a @#&* " placard and not be arrested.;)
Ha-ha. If I did that, even here in rural Midwest, I would get problems from local "Progressive" thugs, and police, and the local newspaper. Even to put an anti-Obama bumper sticker on the car, is an invitation to receive flat tires and broken windshields.

This is why you can see many "I like Obama" stickers, but never any anti-Obama stickers. They're scared, and they don't want damage to their cars.

The Left does not tolerate dissent.

***********************************

You got 1 out of 14 correct ("Clean water"). Congratulations. :emote_popcorn:

TolkoRaz
19-06-2014, 16:28
And this weekend starts Wimbledon.


............. and Iraq is stealing the headlines and how Obama is going to circumvent Congresses support (again) for offensive operations against the Sunni extremists. He is going to support the Iranian backed Shia ground operations! How bizarre is the World we live & die in! ;)

Fantastika
19-06-2014, 16:33
............. and Iraq is stealing the headlines and how Obama is going to circumvent Congresses support (again) for offensive operations against the Sunni extremists. He is going to support the Iranian backed Shia ground operations! How bizarre is the World we live & die in! ;)

Will someone else please handle the world's problems so Barack can get back to his golf?

Fantastika
19-06-2014, 19:14
His concession will be to keep the blockade against population centres in the east and maintain attacks - for this probably will be praised as a 'peacemaker' by every single media outlet!

"Fighting erupts in east Ukraine as rebels reject peace plan"
The Globe and Mail (UK) - 3 hours ago

"Pro-Russian separatists reject Ukraine's truce offer"
Philly.com (Philadephia)

"Fighting rages as Ukraine's blueprint for peace rejected by pro-Russian rebels"
Euronews

"Ukraine's Separatists Refuse Truce"
Huffington (Puffington) Post-2 hours ago

"Ukraine's new president offers peace for Russia, says ceasefire is imminent"
New York Daily News

"Ukrainian leader proposes cease-fire, but separatists scoff"
Boston Globe - ‎9 hours ago‎

*************************************

He will awarded the Nobel Peace Prize? The award is a chocolate medal.

Maybe we should just call him "Petro the Peaceful" :AngelPray:

TolkoRaz
19-06-2014, 22:24
Will someone else please handle the world's problems so Barack can get back to his golf?

Hope he plays better golf than he does governing the World! ;)

PJB
20-06-2014, 10:44
Correct.

No dishwashing machine.

I get my clothes at yard sales, auctions, Good Will and the Salvation Army.

I use the laundromat. When I lived in Russia, I used the bathtub, until I graduated to the Malutka I found in Iz-Ruk-v-ruki.

1993 Mazda, the A/C does not work. Only goes 60 MPH.

No garage.

The best roads in the state here, yes, but we have influential government representative. :)

I don't work for anyone else.

And I work 80 hours a week for it.

No central A/C here.

The city turns it off if you don't pay the bill within 36 days.

I am paying $400/month premiums for "healthcare" which I never use, but if I get off the government "plan" and then get back on it later, it will be $800/month (penalty for skipping). "Modern" Obamacare will take the world's best healthcare system down to the level of the old Soviet Union's. Or were you referring to the fact, that under the "modern" American healthcare system, if you choose not to have health insurance, you are forced to pay a fine?

I got $5000 (USA cost) worth of dental work for $400 in Russia. Same quality.

Ha-ha. If I did that, even here in rural Midwest, I would get problems from local "Progressive" thugs, and police, and the local newspaper. Even to put an anti-Obama bumper sticker on the car, is an invitation to receive flat tires and broken windshields.

This is why you can see many "I like Obama" stickers, but never any anti-Obama stickers. They're scared, and they don't want damage to their cars.

The Left does not tolerate dissent.

***********************************

You got 1 out of 14 correct ("Clean water"). Congratulations. :emote_popcorn:

With all the goodies in America you only got clean water? Wow, you blew it somewhere along the line. Living in the Midwest without AC is reason enough to go back to Russia.

Fantastika
20-06-2014, 13:40
With all the goodies in America you only got clean water? Wow, you blew it somewhere along the line. Living in the Midwest without AC is reason enough to go back to Russia.

Clean water and good music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y_YM1ikva0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dokf_qXiDko

Russian Lad
21-06-2014, 03:11
Fantastika, now that we know you barely survive under the evil and bloody Obama regime, can we get back to Slavyansk, Ukraine please?:) Other than that, I still encourage you to swap our passports if you feel miserable in the US, Russia needs people like you, the US can do with people like me, let's swap citizenships.:watching:

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 05:14
Fantastika, now that we know you barely survive under the evil and bloody Obama regime, can we get back to Slavyansk, Ukraine please?:) Other than that, I still encourage you to swap our passports if you feel miserable in the US, Russia needs people like you, the US can do with people like me, let's swap citizenships.:watching:

5 by 5, Amigo, let's do it!

A couple of years ago, I answered an ad for "musicians" when I was in Virginia. I met this lady "Ruby Hayes," she just got back from Thailand, and her agent was setting up a 6-month, or longer, gig in Almaty, Kazakhstan. I would get $2500/month + free rent.

I didn't believe any restaurant (or casino?) in Kazakhstan would pay +$10,000/month for a band. Anyway, she hired some other музыканты, and looks like her Almaty gig never materialized.

I went to town on the Steinway at Samara's highest restaurant one night, and got lots of applause, but, no $. :piano: Why does everyone buy the pianist beer? That just makes the pianist inebriated, and not able to play very well.

Russian Lad
21-06-2014, 05:36
I went to town on the Steinway at Samara's highest restaurant one night, and got lots of applause, but, no $. Why does everyone buy the pianist beer? That just makes the pianist inebriated, and not able to play very well.

So, you are a piano player?:) A lot play inside the metro here when it is cold outside.:) :9437::idea::watching:

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 05:46
So, you are a piano player?:) A lot play inside the metro here when it is cold outside.:) :9437::idea::watching: In Samara they are on the tramvei, :) but they don't bring along their pianos, just guitars. I usually "donate" unless they are really bad.

If you want to come to US, how's your Spanish? Hablas espaol? If you have problem at customs, just smile and say "Yo no hablo Ingls" and they will let you go (not because you don't speak English, because they don't like people who smile.) :)

Russian Lad
21-06-2014, 05:59
If you want to come to US, how's your Spanish? Hablas espaol?

I learned it as like my fourth language some time ago, can brush it up if there is a need, chica bonita.:) Am also considering Panama due to this.

TolkoRaz
21-06-2014, 10:10
I learned it as like my fourth language some time ago, can brush it up if there is a need, chica bonita.:) Am also considering Panama due to this.

I hear they make fine hats in Panama! ;)

quincy
21-06-2014, 13:10
Western leaders have threatened additional sanctions against Russia, who they accuse of stoking tension in Ukraine. Moscow denies the claim.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27952324

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 13:21
I learned it as like my fourth language some time ago, can brush it up if there is a need, chica bonita.:) Am also considering Panama due to this.

Panama? Not exactly rich country. Costa Rica, also in Central America, it is much better off economically. In US, many jobs now require command of both English and Spanish. Get some fake ID that says you're 17 - then appear at the US border, they will consider you, not an illegal immigrant, but an abandoned child, and take you to hotel, until they can find US "parents." Or, take a train to Eastern Ukraine. Get some documents that say you are Ukrainian, then go to Kiev and apply for US asylum based on "refugee" status.

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 13:24
I hear they make fine hats in Panama! ;)

TK, I will bet you they are made in China. :)

(The original "Panama" hats were made in Ecuador).

Russian Lad
21-06-2014, 13:27
Panama? Not exactly rich country. Costa Rica, also in Central America, it is much better off economically. In US, many jobs now require command of both English and Spanish. Get some fake ID that says you're 17 - then appear at the US border, they will consider you, not an illegal immigrant, but an abandoned child, and take you to hotel, until they can find US "parents."

I make money via Internet, so it is good it is not rich, means low prices for me.:) I don't want to go to a rich country, I want to go to a warm country with a nice beach, cheap prices and no visa problems (Panama offers up to 180 days visa-free to Russians):) Downshifting of sorts.

Alan65
21-06-2014, 14:17
5 by 5, Amigo, let's do it!

A couple of years ago, I answered an ad for "musicians" when I was in Virginia. I met this lady "Ruby Hayes," she just got back from Thailand, and her agent was setting up a 6-month, or longer, gig in Almaty, Kazakhstan. I would get $2500/month + free rent.

I didn't believe any restaurant (or casino?) in Kazakhstan would pay +$10,000/month for a band. Anyway, she hired some other музыканты, and looks like her Almaty gig never materialized.

I went to town on the Steinway at Samara's highest restaurant one night, and got lots of applause, but, no $. :piano: Why does everyone buy the pianist beer? That just makes the pianist inebriated, and not able to play very well.

So, you can play the piano yet can only type with four fingers...something smells like bullsh!t.

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 15:19
Western leaders have threatened additional sanctions against Russia, who they accuse of stoking tension in Ukraine. Moscow denies the claim.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27952324

Obama-NATO is focusing on Russia, and leaving Iraq to fend for itself.

Petro's "Peace plan" is the same old ultimatum,- except now they have a week to disarm, or Petro will continue bombing. Of course the Kiev media reports "violations" of a "cease fire" that the rebels never agreed to, and the pro-Kiev media will conceal any violations of the "cease fire" by Kiev forces.

But is the Kiev "army" Ukrainian - is this the regular Ukr. army, or is it "volunteers" from Western Ukraine - in which case is Poroshenko in command of them, or are they "out of control"?

The Chocolate King, dressed in camouflage military uniform, looks as ridiculous as Obama in a uniform.

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 15:26
So, you can play the piano yet can only type with four fingers...something smells like bullsh!t.

I play piano with only 4 fingers, too.

(шутка!)

TolkoRaz
21-06-2014, 16:23
I play piano with only 4 fingers, too.

(шутка!)

Four fingers on each hand is all that a lady normally has! :book:

fenrir
21-06-2014, 17:14
Western leaders have threatened additional sanctions against Russia, who they accuse of stoking tension in Ukraine. Moscow denies the claim.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27952324

The EU is also planning to ban the import of anything produced in the Crimea. Everything will have to be shipped to Russia, relabeled and then exported, driving up costs.

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 17:29
Four fingers on each hand is all that a lady normally has! :book:

There are 1 in 1000 people born with 6 fingers on their hands (5 fingers + thumb). I've always wondered if these people are more skilled at typing, playing the synthesizer. etc...

Fantastika
21-06-2014, 17:33
I make money via Internet, so it is good it is not rich, means low prices for me.:) I don't want to go to a rich country, I want to go to a warm country with a nice beach, cheap prices and no visa problems (Panama offers up to 180 days visa-free to Russians):) Downshifting of sorts.

Do you mean ""Downsizing"?

I did tutor this couple, to learn English, in Samara. They were planning to go to Haiti. I can see Costa Rica, or Panama, but...Haiti?

quincy
21-06-2014, 19:42
Obama-NATO is focusing on Russia, and leaving Iraq to fend for itself.

Petro's "Peace plan" is the same old ultimatum,- except now they have a week to disarm, or Petro will continue bombing. Of course the Kiev media reports "violations" of a "cease fire" that the rebels never agreed to, and the pro-Kiev media will conceal any violations of the "cease fire" by Kiev forces.

But is the Kiev "army" Ukrainian - is this the regular Ukr. army, or is it "volunteers" from Western Ukraine - in which case is Poroshenko in command of them, or are they "out of control"?

The Chocolate King, dressed in camouflage military uniform, looks as ridiculous as Obama in a uniform.

War is peace. This is a war against sections of the population who have a different point of view

quincy
21-06-2014, 22:05
Inside eastern Ukraine's conflict-hit towns, the BBC's Daniel Sandford finds homes destroyed, streets deserted and the food is running out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27941174

Russian Lad
22-06-2014, 00:55
This is a war against sections of the population who have a different point of view

Correct. The population of Russia. The first armed men appeared in Slavyansk the next day after Lavrov's suggestion for Ukraine's federalization was not supported. And many of the rebels' leaders openly claimed they have come from Russia. Quite a coincidence. There are even tanks from Russia there now, all sorts of top-notch modern weapons requiring high skills for handling them, hardly easily found among the local miners, etc. Why do you choose to ignore all this?

quincy
22-06-2014, 01:55
Correct. The population of Russia. The first armed men appeared in Slavyansk the next day after Lavrov's suggestion for Ukraine's federalization was not supported. And many of the rebels' leaders openly claimed they have come from Russia. Quite a coincidence. There are even tanks from Russia there now, all sorts of top-notch modern weapons requiring high skills for handling them, hardly easily found among the local miners, etc. Why do you choose to ignore all this?


Do you do anything else in life other than post dumb comments?

Fantastika
22-06-2014, 02:28
Russian Lad, is there anything that happens that is NOT a Putin conspiracy?

Russian Lad
22-06-2014, 02:38
Do you do anything else in life other than post dumb comments?

You are welcome to refute them if they are so dumb instead of just calling them dumb. Your supervisors didn't teach you the basics of an online debate or you skipped that class with a girl? To begin with, refute that the leaders like Strelkov, Bes and Boroday are not Russians from Russia (there are videos in which they openly claim they are Russians from Russia). You claim they are Ukrainians from Ukraine despite what they are telling us themselves?


Russian Lad, is there anything that happens that is NOT a Putin conspiracy?

Sure, it is a big world. The evil Obama is plotting against you around the clock, we remember that. What you are referring to above in your quote can hardly qualify as a conspiracy, it is being done very openly.

PJB
22-06-2014, 02:41
Do you do anything else in life other than post dumb comments?

So how does a Ukrainian average citizen and his neighbors get regularly resupplied with tanks, missile launchers and all those really expensive weapons? and even IF they did buy them at the local renok how did they get so good at using them? :eh:
I'm guessing that taking down planes with missile launchers requires more skill and practice than point and shoot.

FatAndy
22-06-2014, 11:11
how did they get so good at using them? :eh:
I'm guessing that taking down planes with missile launchers requires more skill and practice than point and shoot.
I understand that so called "average American" may not know, but in Soviet Union most of men served in Soviet Army. Strela style missile launchers were on armament of mech infantry since end of 196x. My generation passed Afghanistan. ;) Besides this, there are Russian volunteers there, with Chechnya experience.


Russian Lad, is there anything that happens that is NOT a Putin conspiracy?
No. He is almighty and comprehensive. FSB nets are everywhere. At the same time RL insists all FSB officers are stupid as corks. So funny world...

Russian Lad
22-06-2014, 11:16
No. He is almighty and comprehensive. FSB nets are everywhere. At the same time RL insists all FSB officers are stupid as corks.

You find a contradiction in this? Power makes people blind, blind people make mistakes thinking they will keep winning. Need examples from history? Look up 1938-1945, Germany.
People are different, some are smart, others stupid, I look only at the results alone and make a judgement regarding the whole group based on the results. Without emotions or affiliations - cold facts alone. I can be wrong too, by the way. The benefit of a doubt is always healthy.

TolkoRaz
22-06-2014, 12:09
You find a contradiction in this? Power makes people blind, blind people make mistakes thinking they will keep winning. Need examples from history? Look up 1938-1945, Germany.
People are different, some are smart, others stupid, I look only at the results alone and make a judgement regarding the whole group based on the results. Without emotions or affiliations - cold facts alone. I can be wrong too, by the way. The benefit of a doubt is always healthy.

Although we all regularly blame Leaders, I think that it is the advisers whom should be blamed. After all, any Leader's decision is primarily based upon what he is told or which Courses of Action to take.

No Leader can be expected to make any sound decision without the input & support of his / her advisers!

Russian Lad
22-06-2014, 13:12
Although we all regularly blame Leaders, I think that it is the advisers whom should be blamed. After all, any Leader's decision is primarily based upon what he is told or which Courses of Action to take.

No Leader can be expected to make any sound decision without the input & support of his / her advisers!

Sure, it is the whole rotten bunch. :tv::)

Рабфак - Ё**ный Стыд! - YouTube

Fantastika
23-06-2014, 06:04
[QUOTE=Russian Lad;1320566]Sure, it is the whole rotten bunch. :tv::)

Yes, the rotten bunch of Lugansk children and women. Just kill them all, right, "Russian" Lad? Very funny, you can laugh while watching on TV. Ha-ha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCW4JAcEdzY&index=8&list=PLvmxlBaoZQsgskR-TzlsXQgtjNWcs1QnB

Russian Lad
23-06-2014, 07:30
Yes, the rotten bunch of Lugansk children and women. Just kill them all, right, "Russian" Lad? Very funny, you can laugh while watching on TV. Ha-ha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCW4...sXQgtjNWcs1QnB
__________________

There is collateral damage in any war, no one is killing them on purpose. I don't exclude provocations, either, to shift the public opinion. They do it verbally, openly and brazenly lying on the mainstream Russian media, I think they may be doing the same in the field, too. At least I would not be surprised. Zero level trust on my part.

Fantastika
23-06-2014, 07:58
... no one is killing them on purpose.


Are you for real? It's just an "accident" that ethnic Russians are being killed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCW4JAcEdzY&index=8&list=PLvmxlBaoZQsgskR-TzlsXQgtjNWcs1QnB



I don't exclude provocations, either, to shift the public opinion.


So it's okay to kill people if they provoke you?

Then, after they are killed, you can have a big laugh about it? Ha-ha ha!

Russian Lad
23-06-2014, 08:03
Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
... no one is killing them on purpose.
Are you for real? It's just an "accident" ethnic Russians are being killed?

Originally Posted by Russian Lad View Post
I don't exclude provocations, either, to shift the public opinion.
So it's okay to kill people if they provoke you?

You don't seem to even begin understanding what I am saying. By provocation I mean killing of their own. To fool people like you. I don't exclude anything. And like I said, I haven't seen a war without civilians dying in it. Take a look at Chechnya. And I am not laughing at the casualties. Whom I am laughing at are on the video clip I posted. Try to keep up with the conversation, make a mental effort please. Otherwise I feel like talking to a school kid, no offence meant.

Fantastika
23-06-2014, 08:14
You don't seem to even begin understanding what I am saying. By provocation I mean killing of their own. To fool people like you. I don't exclude anything. And like I said, I haven't seen a war without civilians dying in it. Take a look at Chechnya.

YOU are the paid CIA fool.

You're about as "Russian" as a kangaroo.

Russian Lad
23-06-2014, 08:17
YOU are the paid CIA fool.

Where is my money then?:Loco:


You're about as "Russian" as a kangaroo.

I am a Russian with brains. A minority in this country at the moment, but still, there are millions like me. Слава Украине!

Fantastika
23-06-2014, 08:29
Where is my money then?

Who knows? Only you. Probably you threw it away on fast women, cool cars, and the casino.




I am a Russian with brains. A minority in this country at the moment, but still, there are millions like me. Слава Украине!

Millions? :Loco: Kemo Sabe, as Tonto once said, what do you mean "we"?

You're the Lone Ranger, Jack!

GLORY Hallelujah, hosannas on the highest to the newest Ukrainian oligarch, Petro the Pure! Friend of the world's children, the Chocolate King!

Lemme hear it one time, praise the Lord!
Praise Petro!
Lemme hear it louder, praise the Lord!
Praise Petro!
Lemme hear it one more time, praise the Lord!
Praise Petro!

***********************

Seriously, you are a paid CIA troll?

I'm sorry, I can't stop laughing, I've got to get myself under control. But I am starting to wonder if you really are some kind of agit-prop tool.

Russian Lad
23-06-2014, 08:34
Seriously, you are a paid CIA troll?

Sh't, you have blown my cover, will have to make another profile now.:(:celebrate:


You're the Lone Ranger, Jack!

GLORY Hallelujah, hosannas on the highest to the newest Ukrainian oligarch, Petro the Pure! Friend of the world's children, the Chocolate King!

Lemme hear it one time, praise the Lord!
Praise Petro!
Lemme hear it louder, praise the Lord!
Praise Petro!
Lemme hear it one more time, praise the Lord!
Praise Petro!

Easy-easy, exhale and inhale evenly at steady intervals. It is a standard CIA technique to calm down when being interrogated under pressure, you can have it for free from me.:)

Fantastika
23-06-2014, 08:43
Sh't, you have blown my cover, will have to make another profile now.:(:celebrate:



Easy-easy, exhale and inhale evenly at steady intervals. It is a standard CIA technique to calm down when being interrogated under pressure, you can have it for free from me.:)

OMG, the guy came up a level, he went from "rage" to "sarcasm"! Or is that down a level? From "rage" to "covert hostility" (He's thinking no one can see his hostility)?

Maybe in 10 years, he can graduate to being able to accept and understand other peoples' opinions!

Russian Lad
23-06-2014, 08:49
Maybe in 10 years, he can graduate to being able to accept and understand other peoples' opinions!

Well, I appreciate your opinion, I find it ill-informed though. To begin with, learn Russian and Ukrainian and live here for almost 40 years, like I have done. Then we can continue our little conversation. And without emotions, only facts. Again, you would be better off venting your discontent with/rage against Obama on some American forum.

Fantastika
23-06-2014, 08:58
Well, I appreciate your opinion, I find it ill-informed though. To begin with, learn Russian and Ukrainian and live here for almost 40 years, like I have done. Then we can continue our little conversation. And without emotions, only facts. Again, you would be better off venting your discontent with/rage against Obama on some American forum.

Well actually, this thread was started, with the *topic* being about hope that the situation in E. Ukraine was going to be resolved.

That is, until you, anti-Russian Ladd, wearing your big black leather, anti-Russian, jackboots, jumped on the throat of that hope, with your typical anti-Russian diatribe, complete with charts and videos.

Obama doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but nice try, nice attempt to distract (your own words).

Our "little" conversation - that's condescending. And it's impossible to have a "conversation...without emotions, only facts...." because you always (emotionally, non-factually) insult the other party.


Well, I appreciate your opinion, I find it ill-informed though. To begin with, learn Russian and Ukrainian.

Why in the world would I want to learn Ukrainian when I can go anywhere in the Chocolate King's paradise and be understood in Russian? Or if the other conversationalist is under 30, in English?

I have an "ill-informed" opinion? Well actually, I have my own opinions, I don't need the Kiev Post, CNN or Euronews to "inform me."


With all the goodies in America you only got clean water? Wow, you blew it somewhere along the line. Living in the Midwest without AC is reason enough to go back to Russia.

You reveal your anti-Russian bias when you list all the reasons why living in the US is good, instead of listing all the reasons why living is Russia is good.

It reminds me of this American sociologist-professor I had the displeasure of sitting next to on one Aeroflot flight from Sheremytevo to Dulles. She lectured me that she had been to Russia 36 (thirty-six!) times and was still "analyzing" the Russian people, like some psych professor analyzing laboratory rats. Finally, I asked her, "Do you like Russian people?" (after all she has been there 36 times) and she answered, "Well, my job is to study."

How can you go to somewhere, 36 times, and not love the people?

Russian Lad
23-06-2014, 10:52
You reveal your anti-Russian bias when you list all the reasons why living in the US is good, instead of listing all the reasons why living is Russia is good.

It reminds me of this American sociologist-professor I had the displeasure of sitting next to on one Aeroflot flight from Sheremytevo to Dulles. She lectured me that she had been to Russia 36 (thirty-six!) times and was still "analyzing" the Russian people, like some psych professor analyzing laboratory rats. Finally, I asked her, "Do you like Russian people?" (after all she has been there 36 times) and she answered, "Well, my job is to study."

How can you go to somewhere, 36 times, and not love the people?

My personal persuasion is that 80% of people are scum and/or dumb in any country, 20% - you can deal with, cautiously, 1% - you can trust and make friends with, get married to. It includes Russia as well. Being selective is healthy, loving everyone is questionable at best. Besides, one has to discern between "loving the people" and "loving their leadership". The lecture is over for today, now you may go play in the yard with the other children.:)

Fantastika
23-06-2014, 11:00
My personal persuasion is that 80% of people are scum and/or dumb in any country, 20% - you can deal with, cautiously, 1% - you can trust and makes friends with, get married to. It includes Russia as well.

I thought you just said "my daily time limit for talking with American juveniles is up"?

Yes, your attitude is "I am superior, to you proletariat." :bowdown:

Get a life.

TolkoRaz
23-06-2014, 15:29
YOU are the paid CIA fool.

.

I cannot believe that the CIA are THAT stupid that they would knowingly pay RusskiLad! :eek: